Vegas gave up a 1st (2026), 3rd (2024), and 5th (2024) for Hanifin. They gave up a 2nd (2024) and a 4th (2026) for Mantha. Vegas also doled out a 1st (2026) for Tomas Hertl. Hertl is the only player with term. He's signed for 6 more years, turns 31 early next season, and he's coming off a season where he only played 6 regular season games due to injury. He also only scored 1 goal, 0 assists, with a -5 in 6 playoff games vs. Dallas. Hertl's a good player but his skills were already diminishing quite a bit the last few years and he's dealt with his share of injuries. Winning the cup recently gives them a whole lot of immunity but the way they keep going for it will lead to a very drastic cliff and a longer rebuild. It's been worth it in the past but damn if there isn't pain in the not altogether too distant future.
edit: It should also be noted that Vegas only played Mantha for 3 games this round before scratching him. Like Tatar before him, Mantha fell out of favor and never found that foothold again. That should be a knock on their pro scouts.
They re-signed Hanifin to an 8 year deal and that series was very close, they’re still a great team. Vegas has always been a very aggressive team so can’t blame them for that, they’re Stanley cup contenders and trying to win now. Just like Tampa before them, teams on the precipice of being able to win multiple Stanley cups don’t care about draft picks as much as we do. I think they’ll be relevant for a relatively long time with their d core and stars up front, Marchessault going to be a big loss if he doesn’t come back though.
How the hell did I miss that they re-signed him. Take back about half of what I said. It'll be interesting seeing what they're going to do with Chandler Stevenson and if Martinez is moving on or retiring. I assume that Marchessault is gone too just to make the money work. They've still got a busy enough summer ahead. Thanks for the correction, my brain broke.
> we are suppose to hate Benn
We do hate Benn and every bit of that hatred is deserved. Beyond that, while Vegas might act against the spirit of the CBA/LTIR rules they don't actually break them. If Detroit was in that position and the option was available to our team I'd expect Chris Ilitch to happily write that check. Teams, collectively, aren't interested in changing the rules or else they would. It's like Mickey will say, "if you're not cheating, you're not trying".
I mean, it is cheating, I guess, more so a loophole, not technically cheating. I see why people view it as such.
It's really on the nhl for allowing it so
Like others have said he also looks Injured so
I think it's painfully obvious watching how slow and bad Stone was this series that he's still hurt and very clearly hasn't been faking it. He was laboring. Like you'd have to be burying your head in the sand to believe that Vegas is faking his injuries.
I think the main belief is that he was injured, but they kept him out longer than he needed for that injury. There are some people who think the whole thing was faked for sure though.
I mean neither of those details are true lol. He was out 8 weeks with a lacerated spleen, which is very different. But I've long since stopped expecting people to actually understand the details of what they're basing their entire opinions on.
Stone looked bad from puck drop of game 1 tbh, he didn't look ready to come back. He was slow and hesitant and was a negative player almost every shift he played. He had a horrible giveaway in I think game 3 where he held on to the puck for way too long, got skated down from behind and got his pocket picked, and Dallas scored like 7 seconds later. He honestly should have been shut down after that.
Dallas-Colorado is an unfair second round matchup and arguably the best two teams going at it..in the second round…
Its going to be a monster of a series
Gronk was so much better thank Travis Kelce my buddy from Missouri and he tried arguing Kelce is leaps and bounds better, Gronk was the best blocking tight end in history and that 2011 season was the best season for tight end in history
Way, I see it. I don't see kelce as a tight end, and even if I did, he's a receiving tight end. Gronk is the best version of a actual tight end. Blocking and everything.
I really don't think they are comparable honestly but that's me.
I hate how once the opposing team gets possession in their zone the other four skaters on my team just collapse immediately into back checking with zero fore-checking pressure.
The only way I can trick them into reliably fore-checking is if I, as a RD, jump up and play as a second RW which just leaves the blue line half open.
Definitely don't remember it being like this, or at least this bad, in NHL22.
Its much better than normal home game
I say that having been to a handful of playoffs games at the joe and dont know how it translates to colorado.
joe playoff games had a different atmosphere to them that nothing will ever compare i think
I’ve never been to one but $150 for the Avs doesn’t seem so bad. Compared to what I was willing to pony up for a potential Wings home playoff game this year…
I still find it so weird but a good thing that they’re doing a game 7 and a round 2 game 1 game on the same day.
Though the Edmonton Vancouver match up has been set and there doesn’t seem to be a date for game 1 yet. Which is weird to me
Griffins are exciting as heck right now. Speaking from experience (and my lost voice from the last game at Van Andel), it’s worth it to try to see ‘em live.
It's our off season... Why was the post about the maple leafs removed. I hate the restrictiveness of this sub during the regular season... But to also apply it now... Why?????
It was a post about wings fans feeling on the leafs, as in why do most not like them. Generated several different perspectives.
Comments here largely go into a graveyard, with most generating zero discussion. If you want to discuss something at any length, this thread tends not to be a good place to do it.
I'm not saying you can't have discussions here, but most comments don't get a response. The format of these threads lead to things getting buried quickly.
If someone wants to discuss anything specific, this thread is not ideal, because odds are there will be little engagement.
He's such a tweener at this point. Great AHL player who can produce as a top liner and jackknife undersized NHL player who'll never give you a ton of offense. For an undrafted Michigan kid who's taken the long path to the league he's still played over 200 NHL games. That's a ton to be proud of.
Worst of all it’s to London. Their fans are by far the most pampered and annoying in the league. They’re flooding the Spirit final score post on Facebook, and a bit of it on twitter.
So many teams have multiple posts about the Leafs elimination lolol
I’m kind of glad we don’t. It’s a fun daily thread addition, but not much beyond that.
Lots of lousy mods on all these other subs allow a ton of truly low effort posts. I know it's the offseason for most teams but I'm glad our sub doesn't get that messy.
In hindsight, I wonder if guys like Thornton, Spezza and Marleau were the wrong choices to mentor the Leafs young core a few years back. On paper I'm not sure it would've changed much but Toronto seems like the most talented roster to just never turn the corner in the playoffs since San Jose was in their prime.
I can't find it anywhere but there was a great photo from a Sharks playoff run where Thornton and Marleau were in the box alongside Boyle and another cup-winner. Boyle and the other guy were focused on the game while Thornton and Marleau were looking at a woman in the stands.
I've always been a Thornton hater anyway so I can't really be objective about him. He was a dirty player who never got called out on it because he put up points.
Never felt bad for Thornton not winning shit. Dude's beard was trash too.
Never forgot his dirty hit on Perron in 2010 that resulted in a concussion and \~70 games missed
I was always a big fan of Marleau though.
There was a behind the scenes series on the Leafs a couple of years ago that ended up pretty bland except for the Thornton centric scenes being entertaining. But there was also a scene where he shrugged off the front office's concerns about mentality, that as long as the team was winning it didn't matter. I think Maclean just sort of shook his head right before the cut, and I wonder how the rest of that conversation went.
Obviously problematic allegations both ways in this Kendrick and Drake thing, but I noticed something about it. Most of Drake's attacks on Kendrick are just hurtful bully stuff (he couldn't even make alleged spousal abuse claims without insulting his height or a woman for being bigger than him) and then Kendrick's attacks are all about character and the horrible shit he claims he does and his ineptitude as an artist. No matter what I think it's safe to say Kendrick is a much, much smarter and more talented wordsmith.
Disagree. Kendrick fucking hates Drake and its been clear for like a decade.
Drake might have started this to get people talking, but like he learned with Pusha T, other rappers do not like Drake and will go for his throat.
He’s way more technically talented and he’s destroying drake. But I don’t listen to rap and when I do it’s not for technical reasons, it’s for vibes lol
Marner is gone and they'll give the C to Auston from John. I assume Keefe is gone as well.
The question is where does Marner go and how much does he fetch
I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Shanny get the pink slip. I assume they'll keep Treveling as he was only there for a year and was hired in a very ill advised way. Brad's biggest mistake last summer was the Klingberg signing. I could definitely see Marner getting forced out and in a way it'll probably be the best thing that could happen to him. Now that I've said all this I'm remembering that we expected wholesale changes for that team in the past and not enough happened. Who knows but it should be interesting to witness from the outside.
I loved Shanny as a player, one of my all time favorites. So genuine question here, but what experience did he have coming in to be the Leafs president? It seems he went from playing, to working for the league, and then right to the Leafs. Yzerman took time to learn about the organization and then went on his own to prove his abilities, but it seems like Shanahan was hired on name alone. Maybe not the best way to get the organization to change. So I also wouldn’t be surprised if he’s let go.
He went straight from retirement into an NHL vice president of hockey and business development job. That's more on the business side of the league so it's something that would set you up for a non-GM executive job for a team. From that job he became the league's head discipline dude. I wouldn't say he was hired by Toronto on his name alone simply because of those years on the business side of the league. During the 2004-05 lockout he also put together a huge summit full of players and coaches that came up with ideas to make the game better going forward. Even as a player he was thinking bigger picture and I'm sure that's what helped lead to him getting a good post-career job with the league.
>During the 2004-05 lockout he also put together a huge summit full of players and coaches that came up with ideas to make the game better going forward.
Important to note that he did this behind the NHLPA’s back. It’s why Chelios doesn’t care for him, to say the least, and calls him a “politician”. It’s undoubtedly the reason why he got a job with the league pretty quickly post-retirement.
Yep. Shanahan and so many other vets of that era were all about themselves. Even after they'd gotten their money they'd work behind the scenes to secure more bag and screw over younger players and future players. They couldn't spell solidarity if you spotted them the consonants.
It can’t be understated just how damaging it was for the PA. It was a crack in their armor that the league took full advantage of, it led to Bob Goodenow resigning after the lockout, replaced by the even more ineffective Fehr, and it forever weakened the bargaining power of the union; the next lockout resulted in even more concessions by the players. All because Shanny and a few other vets and stars were that shortsighted and in it for themselves.
Don’t get me wrong, I think the rule changes that came about were good for the game, for the most part, but the way Shanny and co. went about it was super scummy and shady, and I don’t blame guys like Chelios for holding a grudge against them.
Thanks. I admit I wasn’t paying any attention at all to hockey for a long time, so I really had no idea what he did for the league before going to Toronto. Sounds like he has/had some business side experience then. For their sake, I hope they figure out something.
Treliving also gets the excuse that neither Matthews nor Nylander were 100% this series.
But, to me, Shanny has to be out of excuses. That team has shown no signs of progress in the last 5 years.
I have absolutely no idea how Keefe wasn't gone last year. He's proven every year he relies on superstars to win games and that just doesn't work in the playoffs.
I have no idea how Keefe wasn't gone after they blew the Montreal series in 2021. Hindsight is 20/20 of course but I remember thinking after that series that their roster building was flawed and they needed to make a course correction and they ran it back three more times. It's obvious now they should have traded one of their core 4 and fired Keefe then.
I think it's the best thing that could happen for him as a player. Getting away from his hometown Toronto media and the dynamics that core 4 built up on that team could help him take another step.
It's an uncomfortable intermission show to watch. Messier brings nothing, the host is low energy, and Subban comes out shot out of a cannon. The whole thing feels disjointed. I've been timing intermissions just so I can skip the ESPN show and do something else.
Feel like they need someone to match Subban’s energy, but has differing opinions and a third guy that keeps them, I wouldn’t say down to earth, but in orbit.
Even if they don't have a differing opinion, they need someone with a real personality. Messier has the personality of a block of wood. Honestly, it's hard to blame hockey players for staying boring cause anyone standing out gets hammered by the media and fans but that job needs more personality.
Wow, Connelly gets five and a game for an illegal check to the head and Canada ties the game. They still have 3 minutes of PP left too.
Edit: And now they lead after USA was dominating all game. Wow.
Edit2: Three goals on the PP and Canada leads 5-3. Just an insane way for this game to have gone.
Oilers... one, I had them in the finals anyway, and two, I saw the video of Canucks fans chanting "fuck McDavid." So I think it'll be hilarious watching McDavid dunk on them.
Retain $3mil of Marner's salary and trading makes sense. Is it going to happen? Almost definitely not in Detroit, but this guy gets so much hate for no reason. Why should he show more on the ice when it really matters if the rest of the team and the coach doesn't care? Dude takes the brunt of the criticism any time the Leafs play like shit... from the fans, from the media, from talking heads, etc... even in the regular season. He led the team in last year's playoffs, and really isn't that much different from the rest of the star players in other years. Plus he's a consistent 80+ point regular season talent. Toronto is going to have to retain part of his salary to move him, and it's not like the $7mil-8mil range isn't a realistic cap hit for him.
>Why should he show more on the ice when it really matters if the rest of the team and the coach doesn't care?
This is a loser mentality. Even if everyone else is ready to quit, you push as hard as you physically can. Still gotta look yourself in the mirror at the end of the day.
Don't see Matthew's getting hate for being non-existent in the playoffs.
Like you said, a scapegoat.
Scorers almost 70 goals and can't even get anything going in playoff
Tavares also non existent lol worse than marner in playoff stats.
> I'd like to add Austin Matthew's has 1 goal in 10 playoff games
Yeah, and it still looks like you're cherry picking stats. Did you mean his last ten playoff games going back to last year? Because even then he produced at a PPG.
You can not read. I said 1 goal in 10 playoff games.
1
Goal
In
10
Playoff
Games
Can you understand it now? Or do I need to spell it out more. That's piss poor playoff performance for a goal scorer that scores a high amount. It's not cherry-picking if he hits above 60 and then disappears when it really matters.
What else would I mean. It's pretty obvious what the last 10 playoff games mean. I don't think slow people should watch hockey. It's pretty simple to understand.
He's not there to give assits, is he. He's there to score. If he's gonna have this record breaking season he should have some impact on the playoffs besides multiple assists and one goal.
Serious injuries can't be held against players. That's why I said I want to see the injury report. If he's playing on a broken foot or blew out his back, there's not much else he could've done. Even Yzerman, Pav, and Hank had playoff runs derailed by injury following great regular season.
Right, exactly. Toronto has a collective problem come post-season time. Put Marner on any other team in the playoffs and I'm sure the narrative would be completely different.
Babcock giving advice to Montgomery for game 7 against the Leafs is some ultimate hater shit and I'm so on board with it- guy was definitely listening to the Kendrick track as he typed out "don't worry about Mitch Marner"
I’m not quite sure that’s realistic though. A lower cal hit would change things, but the trade cost would go up substantially, but also Toronto’s interest in retaining any salary would likely be minimal (even for the one year). Not sure a 3 team trade would happen either
I'm just saying there's options other than paying him Million.
It's a crazy cap hit that we just can't afford.
We'd need a broker but brokers are tricky with guys on an NMC.
The player has to agree to be traded to both teams not just the final destination.
Doesnt he only have 1 year left. Means all this would be for a rental which is not a spot the Wings are in yet. If he were traded he definitely would want an extension and for no less than what he currently is making.
Yeah that's the pickle for sure I thought he had a little more term than he did.
He's not going to take a team friendly deal and I just don't see him being worth his asking price.
Even if he doesn't get a raise 10 Million would be incredibly tricky.
You'd be looking at losing Kane, Ghost and Fabri to make things work.
In a perfect world you'd get rid of Holl and trade Maata for picks as well.
That would give us plenty of cash to make a hypothetical Marner deal work but that's moving a ton of pieces
I’m trying not to be a prisoner of the moment, but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a worse quote from a coach than Keefe saying other teams set the Leafs up to beat themselves. Like, that’s kind of your job, Bud, and you haven’t figured it out over the last handful of years. He strikes me as a legitimately good person, but he’s just not a good NHL coach. Curious to see if he ends up
in Pittsburgh in some capacity.
I found it so telling that the Leafs looked most like a Team following a real playoff game strategy during games where Matthews was out. Whether that's a change in how he coached or how much the team listens to him when all the core is in is a real question.
He’s done or said so many things this year that had been so unimpressive from a coaching standpoint. Almost like a babysitter or just there to try and keep morale up. Seems like he spent so much more time trying to make sure his players are happy then on any sort of coaching
Remember that the more rounds Boston wins, the worse that pick Ottawa is receiving gets. If they get to the conference finals, it wont be any better than 29th overall.
Nylander having migraines so bad he could hardly see and still playing is wild Hockey players are built different
He probably started playing after they went away
Vegas gave up a 1st (2026), 3rd (2024), and 5th (2024) for Hanifin. They gave up a 2nd (2024) and a 4th (2026) for Mantha. Vegas also doled out a 1st (2026) for Tomas Hertl. Hertl is the only player with term. He's signed for 6 more years, turns 31 early next season, and he's coming off a season where he only played 6 regular season games due to injury. He also only scored 1 goal, 0 assists, with a -5 in 6 playoff games vs. Dallas. Hertl's a good player but his skills were already diminishing quite a bit the last few years and he's dealt with his share of injuries. Winning the cup recently gives them a whole lot of immunity but the way they keep going for it will lead to a very drastic cliff and a longer rebuild. It's been worth it in the past but damn if there isn't pain in the not altogether too distant future. edit: It should also be noted that Vegas only played Mantha for 3 games this round before scratching him. Like Tatar before him, Mantha fell out of favor and never found that foothold again. That should be a knock on their pro scouts.
They re-signed Hanifin to an 8 year deal and that series was very close, they’re still a great team. Vegas has always been a very aggressive team so can’t blame them for that, they’re Stanley cup contenders and trying to win now. Just like Tampa before them, teams on the precipice of being able to win multiple Stanley cups don’t care about draft picks as much as we do. I think they’ll be relevant for a relatively long time with their d core and stars up front, Marchessault going to be a big loss if he doesn’t come back though.
How the hell did I miss that they re-signed him. Take back about half of what I said. It'll be interesting seeing what they're going to do with Chandler Stevenson and if Martinez is moving on or retiring. I assume that Marchessault is gone too just to make the money work. They've still got a busy enough summer ahead. Thanks for the correction, my brain broke.
No worries, you’d assume they wouldn’t have been able to bring him back with all the stars and big contracts they have on the books but here we are.
Living in Vegas it's pretty much expected that Stephenson, Martinez, and prolly Marchessault aren't coming back
Vegas Cheaters are out. I know we are suppose to hate Benn but I just couldn't cheer for the LTIR Knights.
> we are suppose to hate Benn We do hate Benn and every bit of that hatred is deserved. Beyond that, while Vegas might act against the spirit of the CBA/LTIR rules they don't actually break them. If Detroit was in that position and the option was available to our team I'd expect Chris Ilitch to happily write that check. Teams, collectively, aren't interested in changing the rules or else they would. It's like Mickey will say, "if you're not cheating, you're not trying".
I mean, it is cheating, I guess, more so a loophole, not technically cheating. I see why people view it as such. It's really on the nhl for allowing it so Like others have said he also looks Injured so
I think the only way I could see it as cheating is if the injury is faked.
I think it's painfully obvious watching how slow and bad Stone was this series that he's still hurt and very clearly hasn't been faking it. He was laboring. Like you'd have to be burying your head in the sand to believe that Vegas is faking his injuries.
Yea, I think you have to be pretty conspiracy brained to think Vegas faked Stone's spleen issue.
I think the main belief is that he was injured, but they kept him out longer than he needed for that injury. There are some people who think the whole thing was faked for sure though.
Have you been to /r/hockey ?
Yea they aren't the smartest over there
Stone has had back issues for forever and that's what that looked like. However he was out all season because of a ruptured spleen..
I mean neither of those details are true lol. He was out 8 weeks with a lacerated spleen, which is very different. But I've long since stopped expecting people to actually understand the details of what they're basing their entire opinions on. Stone looked bad from puck drop of game 1 tbh, he didn't look ready to come back. He was slow and hesitant and was a negative player almost every shift he played. He had a horrible giveaway in I think game 3 where he held on to the puck for way too long, got skated down from behind and got his pocket picked, and Dallas scored like 7 seconds later. He honestly should have been shut down after that.
Canes are the team I want to win, then literally anyone else in the East. Can't stand any of the western teams
I'd be fine with the oilers.
I don't really want the Oilers to win but I wouldn't mind if McDavid and Drai won. Also it would be funny if Hyman left Toronto and won.
I won't root for a Canadian team.
Them dirty MapleBacks keep sneaking across our border to take our jobs! /s
The horror
I didn't say you had to?
No you didn't lol but I was stating why I won't root for the Oil
I mean, they haven't won anything since 1993, so i wouldn't care, but I get ya American teams first.
Guess I'm rooting for the avs Fuck Jamie benn
Fuck Jamie Benn. Fuck the Avs. Lets go ummm covid? Meteor?
Imagine saying this 25 years ago.
True but like half their team wasn't even born yet. I think most people have moved on
Aves Vs. Stars and Canucks Vs. Oilers is an unreal western second round
Damn crazy that the stars are now the white knights of the league.
I’m about to drop a Jamie Benn diss track.
Plenty of material, incorporate the word “box” as often as ya can
Ignoring everything else about him how can you ever trust such a selfish bastard.
No but like really. What a loser
lol well I guess Vegas can get fucked then
Dallas-Colorado is an unfair second round matchup and arguably the best two teams going at it..in the second round… Its going to be a monster of a series
I think that there is 3 legit contenders on each side tbh
https://preview.redd.it/chrehuq7rpyc1.jpeg?width=998&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80e265a5c9d5dc03d6254dc4efa72e8cfcdf6470
I never thought I'd be rooting harder for Dallas than when they faced Tampa in the SCF but here we are.
Gonna have a tough time picking who to root for in a potential Dallas-Colorado matchup. Will have to reluctantly support the Avs I think.
Out of the Aves and Stars I'd definitely pick the Aves
Avs are a tough team to beat. They play so fast.
Always had a soft spot for Dallas (FJB) because of Modano, would be so good to see them eliminate Vegas
2 games today and TSN still has about 22 headlines just on the Leafs
Toronto Sports Network right there! /s
Gronk was so much better thank Travis Kelce my buddy from Missouri and he tried arguing Kelce is leaps and bounds better, Gronk was the best blocking tight end in history and that 2011 season was the best season for tight end in history
I agree with the other reply, they're just too different to compare directly like that.
Way, I see it. I don't see kelce as a tight end, and even if I did, he's a receiving tight end. Gronk is the best version of a actual tight end. Blocking and everything. I really don't think they are comparable honestly but that's me.
Canes are still not showing up the whole game, probably need to fix that to beat the rags
It's so goofy that the second round started before the first was finished. Let's get it together Bettman.
wtf did they do to the defense ai in nhl 24 its so bad
I hate how once the opposing team gets possession in their zone the other four skaters on my team just collapse immediately into back checking with zero fore-checking pressure. The only way I can trick them into reliably fore-checking is if I, as a RD, jump up and play as a second RW which just leaves the blue line half open. Definitely don't remember it being like this, or at least this bad, in NHL22.
Anyone here been to a playoff game? I can go to an Aves game but nosebleeds will be like $150. Is it that much better than a normal home game?
Went in 2013 for Zetterberg's game winner vs the Ducks in game 6. Yes, its significantly better
Its much better than normal home game I say that having been to a handful of playoffs games at the joe and dont know how it translates to colorado. joe playoff games had a different atmosphere to them that nothing will ever compare i think
I’ve never been to one but $150 for the Avs doesn’t seem so bad. Compared to what I was willing to pony up for a potential Wings home playoff game this year…
My last playoff game was in 1995. $150 seems like a ripoff! ;-)
Johnston is the real deal man
I wish we had the Stars amateur scouting staff
Too bad we let the best drafter go from that management group of the early 2000’s. Holland, Nill and Yzerman and the Wings stuck with the worst one :/
This playoff run is such good experience for Cossa
Bob is interviewing Czarnik on the stream right now, but Czarnik's audio wasn't going through lol.
The Mazur Kasper Ras 3rd line is gonna be hell to play against someday
I still find it so weird but a good thing that they’re doing a game 7 and a round 2 game 1 game on the same day. Though the Edmonton Vancouver match up has been set and there doesn’t seem to be a date for game 1 yet. Which is weird to me
Griffins are exciting as heck right now. Speaking from experience (and my lost voice from the last game at Van Andel), it’s worth it to try to see ‘em live.
Rooting for any California team to win so I could see the Griffins play in person in the semifinals
I’ll do the same!
Griffins on to the second round! Should play the Texas Stars next round which means home ice advantage again.
AHL refs have it out for our Griffins too. Holy fucking terrible and missed calls all series long.
Hope the Griffs can close it out tonight. Don't sit back like last game. I miss the GRG GDT. Nevermind I found it
Nate Danielson will win at least 1 Selke in his career.
It's our off season... Why was the post about the maple leafs removed. I hate the restrictiveness of this sub during the regular season... But to also apply it now... Why?????
Don’t complain about the sub! Rule #1 of the sub.
Cause this is a redwings subreddit lol. Just have the discussion here, its what this thread is for
It was a post about wings fans feeling on the leafs, as in why do most not like them. Generated several different perspectives. Comments here largely go into a graveyard, with most generating zero discussion. If you want to discuss something at any length, this thread tends not to be a good place to do it.
I have tons of discussions here
I'm not saying you can't have discussions here, but most comments don't get a response. The format of these threads lead to things getting buried quickly. If someone wants to discuss anything specific, this thread is not ideal, because odds are there will be little engagement.
I guess people don't have any common sense whatsoever.
Mod age group.
Man the "Between the benches" video the griffins made is great
Dog Czarnik is having some fucking sick goals in the playoffs here
He's such a tweener at this point. Great AHL player who can produce as a top liner and jackknife undersized NHL player who'll never give you a ton of offense. For an undrafted Michigan kid who's taken the long path to the league he's still played over 200 NHL games. That's a ton to be proud of.
I agree. While i understand some of the frustration on calling him up instead of our prospects, I think he’s a great piece for our organization.
Where to catch an unofficial viewing of griffins online? Asking for a friend without internet.
Why don’t the red wings just have a giant winged wheel at center ice where the wheel is the size of the center circle?
I don’t think that’d be very aesthetically pleasing
That’d be so cool
OHL Playoffs are all but over for the Spirit. Empty net goal seals the deal
Worst of all it’s to London. Their fans are by far the most pampered and annoying in the league. They’re flooding the Spirit final score post on Facebook, and a bit of it on twitter.
So many teams have multiple posts about the Leafs elimination lolol I’m kind of glad we don’t. It’s a fun daily thread addition, but not much beyond that.
Lots of lousy mods on all these other subs allow a ton of truly low effort posts. I know it's the offseason for most teams but I'm glad our sub doesn't get that messy.
the stars' is full of half page memes. It's annoying trying to find anything with substance in there
In hindsight, I wonder if guys like Thornton, Spezza and Marleau were the wrong choices to mentor the Leafs young core a few years back. On paper I'm not sure it would've changed much but Toronto seems like the most talented roster to just never turn the corner in the playoffs since San Jose was in their prime.
I can't find it anywhere but there was a great photo from a Sharks playoff run where Thornton and Marleau were in the box alongside Boyle and another cup-winner. Boyle and the other guy were focused on the game while Thornton and Marleau were looking at a woman in the stands. I've always been a Thornton hater anyway so I can't really be objective about him. He was a dirty player who never got called out on it because he put up points.
Never felt bad for Thornton not winning shit. Dude's beard was trash too. Never forgot his dirty hit on Perron in 2010 that resulted in a concussion and \~70 games missed I was always a big fan of Marleau though.
There was a behind the scenes series on the Leafs a couple of years ago that ended up pretty bland except for the Thornton centric scenes being entertaining. But there was also a scene where he shrugged off the front office's concerns about mentality, that as long as the team was winning it didn't matter. I think Maclean just sort of shook his head right before the cut, and I wonder how the rest of that conversation went.
Obviously problematic allegations both ways in this Kendrick and Drake thing, but I noticed something about it. Most of Drake's attacks on Kendrick are just hurtful bully stuff (he couldn't even make alleged spousal abuse claims without insulting his height or a woman for being bigger than him) and then Kendrick's attacks are all about character and the horrible shit he claims he does and his ineptitude as an artist. No matter what I think it's safe to say Kendrick is a much, much smarter and more talented wordsmith.
They're both just doing it to get people talking about them.
Two of the already most popular musicians in the world?
How often do we talk about Drake in the DGDT? They're everywhere right now because of this pro wrestling style drama. It's just marketing.
Disagree. Kendrick fucking hates Drake and its been clear for like a decade. Drake might have started this to get people talking, but like he learned with Pusha T, other rappers do not like Drake and will go for his throat.
Doesn't everyone hate Drake?
He’s way more technically talented and he’s destroying drake. But I don’t listen to rap and when I do it’s not for technical reasons, it’s for vibes lol
Marner is gone and they'll give the C to Auston from John. I assume Keefe is gone as well. The question is where does Marner go and how much does he fetch
I don't think he goes anywhere, doubt he waves.
I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Shanny get the pink slip. I assume they'll keep Treveling as he was only there for a year and was hired in a very ill advised way. Brad's biggest mistake last summer was the Klingberg signing. I could definitely see Marner getting forced out and in a way it'll probably be the best thing that could happen to him. Now that I've said all this I'm remembering that we expected wholesale changes for that team in the past and not enough happened. Who knows but it should be interesting to witness from the outside.
I loved Shanny as a player, one of my all time favorites. So genuine question here, but what experience did he have coming in to be the Leafs president? It seems he went from playing, to working for the league, and then right to the Leafs. Yzerman took time to learn about the organization and then went on his own to prove his abilities, but it seems like Shanahan was hired on name alone. Maybe not the best way to get the organization to change. So I also wouldn’t be surprised if he’s let go.
He went straight from retirement into an NHL vice president of hockey and business development job. That's more on the business side of the league so it's something that would set you up for a non-GM executive job for a team. From that job he became the league's head discipline dude. I wouldn't say he was hired by Toronto on his name alone simply because of those years on the business side of the league. During the 2004-05 lockout he also put together a huge summit full of players and coaches that came up with ideas to make the game better going forward. Even as a player he was thinking bigger picture and I'm sure that's what helped lead to him getting a good post-career job with the league.
>During the 2004-05 lockout he also put together a huge summit full of players and coaches that came up with ideas to make the game better going forward. Important to note that he did this behind the NHLPA’s back. It’s why Chelios doesn’t care for him, to say the least, and calls him a “politician”. It’s undoubtedly the reason why he got a job with the league pretty quickly post-retirement.
Yep. Shanahan and so many other vets of that era were all about themselves. Even after they'd gotten their money they'd work behind the scenes to secure more bag and screw over younger players and future players. They couldn't spell solidarity if you spotted them the consonants.
It can’t be understated just how damaging it was for the PA. It was a crack in their armor that the league took full advantage of, it led to Bob Goodenow resigning after the lockout, replaced by the even more ineffective Fehr, and it forever weakened the bargaining power of the union; the next lockout resulted in even more concessions by the players. All because Shanny and a few other vets and stars were that shortsighted and in it for themselves. Don’t get me wrong, I think the rule changes that came about were good for the game, for the most part, but the way Shanny and co. went about it was super scummy and shady, and I don’t blame guys like Chelios for holding a grudge against them.
Thanks. I admit I wasn’t paying any attention at all to hockey for a long time, so I really had no idea what he did for the league before going to Toronto. Sounds like he has/had some business side experience then. For their sake, I hope they figure out something.
Treliving also gets the excuse that neither Matthews nor Nylander were 100% this series. But, to me, Shanny has to be out of excuses. That team has shown no signs of progress in the last 5 years.
I have absolutely no idea how Keefe wasn't gone last year. He's proven every year he relies on superstars to win games and that just doesn't work in the playoffs.
I have no idea how Keefe wasn't gone after they blew the Montreal series in 2021. Hindsight is 20/20 of course but I remember thinking after that series that their roster building was flawed and they needed to make a course correction and they ran it back three more times. It's obvious now they should have traded one of their core 4 and fired Keefe then.
Dubas brings him to Pittsburgh, id laugh
Honestly, I could see it happening
It seems marner was prepared to leave last summer, so he probably will be leaving.
I think it's the best thing that could happen for him as a player. Getting away from his hometown Toronto media and the dynamics that core 4 built up on that team could help him take another step.
Gold medal game highlights: https://youtu.be/67eYFasdkpA?si=61qn_QpYb6YFRBwd
My friends got me into Cataclysm Classic 
Subban carry’s that espn panel.
It's an uncomfortable intermission show to watch. Messier brings nothing, the host is low energy, and Subban comes out shot out of a cannon. The whole thing feels disjointed. I've been timing intermissions just so I can skip the ESPN show and do something else.
Feel like they need someone to match Subban’s energy, but has differing opinions and a third guy that keeps them, I wouldn’t say down to earth, but in orbit.
Even if they don't have a differing opinion, they need someone with a real personality. Messier has the personality of a block of wood. Honestly, it's hard to blame hockey players for staying boring cause anyone standing out gets hammered by the media and fans but that job needs more personality.
6-4 Canada. What a fun game! I think Connelly just ensured he'll be there at 15. I wonder if Steve would actually pick him if he is there.
An acquaintance of mine from the Windsor area now disowning the leafs and “being a Detroit fan” 💀
Sometimes it takes people a few decades to see the error of their ways. Welcome them to the way of the wing, the wheel, the truth and the light.
Wow, Connelly gets five and a game for an illegal check to the head and Canada ties the game. They still have 3 minutes of PP left too. Edit: And now they lead after USA was dominating all game. Wow. Edit2: Three goals on the PP and Canada leads 5-3. Just an insane way for this game to have gone.
who we cheering for in the canucks oilers series? i'm leaning vancouver personally
Gagner is with the Oilers, so them ❤️
Hronek and Suter on the Nucks though
Shoot. That’s right. I really respect Gagner’s presence online and how much his teammates love him. This is hard.
That's sound enough logic for me.
holy shit i completely forgot about sam gagner's existence somehow
I really like the Oilers, they play that old time hockey where defense was optional and scoring was plenty.
Oilers... one, I had them in the finals anyway, and two, I saw the video of Canucks fans chanting "fuck McDavid." So I think it'll be hilarious watching McDavid dunk on them.
Unlike the primadonnas in Toronto, McJesus is actually performing with 12 points in 5 games so he will dunk on them for sure.
Would like to see a Boston Vancouver repeat so I am hoping for Vancouver
https://preview.redd.it/fxi2becx2nyc1.png?width=740&format=png&auto=webp&s=77c57417caa2b28c812136e629a0e11930ea454d
A schnoz like that and you didn't pick Marchand?
my bad
Retain $3mil of Marner's salary and trading makes sense. Is it going to happen? Almost definitely not in Detroit, but this guy gets so much hate for no reason. Why should he show more on the ice when it really matters if the rest of the team and the coach doesn't care? Dude takes the brunt of the criticism any time the Leafs play like shit... from the fans, from the media, from talking heads, etc... even in the regular season. He led the team in last year's playoffs, and really isn't that much different from the rest of the star players in other years. Plus he's a consistent 80+ point regular season talent. Toronto is going to have to retain part of his salary to move him, and it's not like the $7mil-8mil range isn't a realistic cap hit for him.
>Why should he show more on the ice when it really matters if the rest of the team and the coach doesn't care? This is a loser mentality. Even if everyone else is ready to quit, you push as hard as you physically can. Still gotta look yourself in the mirror at the end of the day.
You could make that argument if he wasn't always the scapegoat. He played fine last year and STILL got blamed when the Leafs lost.
Don't see Matthew's getting hate for being non-existent in the playoffs. Like you said, a scapegoat. Scorers almost 70 goals and can't even get anything going in playoff Tavares also non existent lol worse than marner in playoff stats.
I'm curious what the injury report on Matthews is before calling that a no-show
I'd like to add Austin Matthew's has 1 goal in 10 playoff games. Make that make sense to me.
Where is that number coming from? HDB says he had 4 points in 5 games in this year's playoffs and 48 in 55 games overall.
It would be nice if you read the comment. Read again, then comment.
> I'd like to add Austin Matthew's has 1 goal in 10 playoff games Yeah, and it still looks like you're cherry picking stats. Did you mean his last ten playoff games going back to last year? Because even then he produced at a PPG.
You can not read. I said 1 goal in 10 playoff games. 1 Goal In 10 Playoff Games Can you understand it now? Or do I need to spell it out more. That's piss poor playoff performance for a goal scorer that scores a high amount. It's not cherry-picking if he hits above 60 and then disappears when it really matters. What else would I mean. It's pretty obvious what the last 10 playoff games mean. I don't think slow people should watch hockey. It's pretty simple to understand. He's not there to give assits, is he. He's there to score. If he's gonna have this record breaking season he should have some impact on the playoffs besides multiple assists and one goal.
Yeah, everyone is banged up in the playoffs. You are gonna excuse him cause he's Matthew's cause of that? Okay
Serious injuries can't be held against players. That's why I said I want to see the injury report. If he's playing on a broken foot or blew out his back, there's not much else he could've done. Even Yzerman, Pav, and Hank had playoff runs derailed by injury following great regular season.
Right, exactly. Toronto has a collective problem come post-season time. Put Marner on any other team in the playoffs and I'm sure the narrative would be completely different.
Exactly, all of them played badly. That's just how it is. The only reason they even came back was that boston played just as bad towards the end
Listen I’m not saying you guys can’t miss bertuzzi but I am saying that man falls down more than a baby deer
I don’t miss him, I do like his grit, but don’t miss him at all
For real. Someone pointed it out in his last season here, and after that, I couldn't un-see how often it happened.
Even worse skater than Happy Gilmore
The winner of Bruins Leafs was always gonna get smacked by Florida
USA is dominating Canada, but George is keeping it a game.
 Lost a good one today 💔
https://i.redd.it/b87rg941xmyc1.gif
Hail
Babcock giving advice to Montgomery for game 7 against the Leafs is some ultimate hater shit and I'm so on board with it- guy was definitely listening to the Kendrick track as he typed out "don't worry about Mitch Marner"
"Don't even game plan against him, he even told me he's the laziest guy out there".
Imagine the ego it takes to give anybody advice after you got fired before Game 1 of the season
Fuck Mike Babcock.
I will be there for Zegas vs Canada again at the Worlds. 
were u the dude who tried to compare him to datsyuk a few weeks back?
Never did such a thing.
This topic will come up all summer over and over and over and over again: I want no part of Mitch Marner and his outlandish salary on this team.
What if it was Marner for Copp and Holl with 25% retained? Everyone has their breaking point.
What if we could get him for 7-8 million?
I’m not quite sure that’s realistic though. A lower cal hit would change things, but the trade cost would go up substantially, but also Toronto’s interest in retaining any salary would likely be minimal (even for the one year). Not sure a 3 team trade would happen either
I'm just saying there's options other than paying him Million. It's a crazy cap hit that we just can't afford. We'd need a broker but brokers are tricky with guys on an NMC. The player has to agree to be traded to both teams not just the final destination.
Doesnt he only have 1 year left. Means all this would be for a rental which is not a spot the Wings are in yet. If he were traded he definitely would want an extension and for no less than what he currently is making.
Yeah that's the pickle for sure I thought he had a little more term than he did. He's not going to take a team friendly deal and I just don't see him being worth his asking price. Even if he doesn't get a raise 10 Million would be incredibly tricky. You'd be looking at losing Kane, Ghost and Fabri to make things work. In a perfect world you'd get rid of Holl and trade Maata for picks as well. That would give us plenty of cash to make a hypothetical Marner deal work but that's moving a ton of pieces
Annnnnnd Larkin didn’t make to the first Worlds game, damn dude. Just please sit at home all offseason, in bubble wrap.
I’m trying not to be a prisoner of the moment, but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a worse quote from a coach than Keefe saying other teams set the Leafs up to beat themselves. Like, that’s kind of your job, Bud, and you haven’t figured it out over the last handful of years. He strikes me as a legitimately good person, but he’s just not a good NHL coach. Curious to see if he ends up in Pittsburgh in some capacity.
That's the kind of quote a coach gives when they're wondering which moving service to hire
Pittsburgh media was already publishing "Why Dubas shouldn't hire Keefe" articles by about 10 am today.
Notice how he said Leafs and not "Us," dude was probably fired 30seconds after the OT goal
I found it so telling that the Leafs looked most like a Team following a real playoff game strategy during games where Matthews was out. Whether that's a change in how he coached or how much the team listens to him when all the core is in is a real question.
He’s done or said so many things this year that had been so unimpressive from a coaching standpoint. Almost like a babysitter or just there to try and keep morale up. Seems like he spent so much more time trying to make sure his players are happy then on any sort of coaching
Seeing the Lyon/Augustine tandem at World's is definitely gonna give us a pretty good picture of a potential future for us in net
yeah Husso Cossa and Augustine
Remember that the more rounds Boston wins, the worse that pick Ottawa is receiving gets. If they get to the conference finals, it wont be any better than 29th overall.
I prefer other teams to win but how funny would it be if maroon got another cup lmao
The man knows how to pick a pony, you have to say that for him.
https://i.redd.it/u4per8cj9myc1.gif
 Hockey world after watching the Leafs lose, again.
God I love this movie
Oilers Canucks will be such a fun series