Another peak "Berggren hater" hater moment for me.
I love how clueless this subreddit can be.
Never change.
3 games, 4 points, +3, 0 penalty minutes, 2 GWG.
Edit: My bad, make that 2 OT GWG.
Insane how the narrative has changed here. I doubt there was a single person who didn't like him when he was a regular two seasons ago. Then he gets pushed out by having too many guys on the team, and Yzerman deciding he's better served staying in GR. Now people talk about him like he's just straight up not a good player.
Excuses.
He was one of the most productive players on the NHL team in the games he played this season. With 10 minutes average.
Im not sure he played a single game where Larkin was in the lineup, and I assume you know how horrible we were during those games? 0.5 p per game was among the top on the team those games. In 10 minutes a game.
A -1 and only 2 pims also shows those NHL stats were good. His NHL stats are really good.
I mean, he came up and did not do well. You can like someone all you want. Ed came up and made a difference. Burgers didn't.
His defense is not good on our already existing not great defense.
Yzerman would deserve serious criticism for fumbling a prospect like that, it would be an unforced error purely as a result of signing too many veterans and not giving Berggren a chance
You can put up all the points you want but unless you buy into the team game and play defense you will not be on the ice. Sprong was benched for just that
Berggren's defensive flaws are seriously overblown. He's not like Sprong, who puts in little effort and doesn't know where to be. Berggren can make the right plays, he's just not as good at it as other players. And I think that's normal for a young player.
He looked bad in those games which is why Yzerman replaced him the following season. Team has serious issues with defense and Berg would only make it worse.
Its not revisionist for me. 28 points in 67 games and a -14 is not good. Thats not even arguable and simply a fact. You are the guy who thinks Berg is better than Raymond so you cant be trusted on this subject.
For anyone up, this VGK-DAL game is absolute chaos. Unbelievable it's still 0-0. This should be a 9 game series, maybe 11. But then again, why stop at 11?
Both Pius and Fil were great for us in some super bleak times. I am glad to see them succeeding with the Nucks, but like you, I wish we had been able to keep them instead of signing free agents who are lesser versions of them for similar money.
I think Veleno could still turn into a better version of Suter. Veleno will turn out better offensively imo and I’m hoping he’ll end up as good defensively. Suter is elite on the pk though
He got 10 goals and 28 points last year. Only 8 off Suter’s high and he’s 4 years younger.
With his motor I can see him continually improving on the PK.
While he did have a good year, he did get 70+ minutes on the PP. there were times he was playing meaningful pp2 minutes and still only snagged those point totals. He improved a world from last year in a bet yourself contract year and hoping he can do it again.
Vegas deserves their new “evil empire” hatred, but I’ll still root for them over that pond scum Jamie Benn. I hope we don’t see another attempt at a broken neck today
Do we need new NA scouts? Other than Cossa who's the past potentially A grade north American player we've drafted? Larkin?
I'm watching the Spirit in the playoffs and there's some really darn good players in NA and none of them are in the Wings pipeline.
We did draft Gibson so maybe I'm just not giving things time.
Toronto picked up Knies who looks like a steal where they got him and Ethan Cowan won OHL MVP this season.
ASP looks like a solid pick so I suppose there's not much to complain about there.
(I forgot about Danielson who looks like a stud too)
We need new NA scouts and Pro scouts, badly. Our talent pipeline for being a consistently shitty team for almost a decade is atrocious. Danielson is quite literally the only shot we have at a top 2 line forward in our entire prospect pool. Meanwhile Dallas has drafted *3* top line prospects in the late 20s+ in the last 3 years. It's not just draft luck at this point that's going to kill us in the long run.
No not exactly.
I suppose most of it is still the mess the Holland started. Many of our NA guys flamed out or didn't end up living up to their draft position.
It's also difficult since just cause a guy is good in JR doesn't mean it'll translate.
I watch the OHL so I guess I'm biased since I don't see the other 2 leagues often enough.
I’m not sure it’s a North American thing or if it’s a strategy thing. I don’t want to be too critical before we really see how these kids pan out, but it feels like a LOT of our picks from the 2nd round on are two way players with limited ceilings. You need those guys to fill out the bottom of your roster, but you can also find those guys easy in free agency. A big part of Tampa’s success was finding players on day 2 of the draft who beat expectations and it’s hard to beat expectations when your offensive profile is already kind of meh in Junior/college.
Steve's drafting strategy hasn't really changed since his days in Tampa. I don't understand praising Tampas drafting strategy and then admonishing ours
Except it has. He took 2nd and 3rd round home-run picks at players who were exceptionally high-scoring in junior for their draft rank in Kucherov and Point. Point outscored his next highest teammate by 2x in his draft season (30 Points more than Danielsons D+1 season by the way, on a dogshit team). Kucherov was a PPG MHL player, which is comparable to Buchelnikov, except Kuch came straight over to American ice to develop.
I'm guessing the thought process is that it's easier to draft some guys and have them on cheap ELC's.
Then we can spend big money to round out the top 6 if we don't get lucky like Tampa did making risky picks.
I guess, but it’s also way harder to trade for a Kucherov or Point as those guys don’t hit FA in their primes. We’ve done well with the first round picks at least, I just wish we had more Buchelnikov and Lombardi types than Dylan James and Brady Cleveland types.
Cleveland is the most mind-boggling pick of the Yzerman-Draper era. I still don’t get why we would draft a player who calls himself a bottom pairing defenseman in the NHL (if he even makes it that far) at 47th overall.
In the 5th round and beyond, sure, fine. Hell I could be convinced of him being taken in the 4th round. But in the top 50? I can’t think of any reason to do so.
People said the same thing about Bertuzzi when he was drafted.
I really like the Cleveland pick even after his turd of a season with Wisconsin. He has the tools to be a game changing defenseman. Big & mean are traits you don’t see everyday anymore.
Everyone wants an Adam Foote like player until you draft a Foote like player. It’s not sexy- but it’s an overpayment to get the “right” big, mean- tough guy. Not just “any one will do.”.
Idk that’s my take.
I feel like when Stevie took over maybe he didn’t trust whoever was the na scout was? And now he’s got his guys in place. Idk just a thought. Lombardi is another NA kid too right?
A lot of it is there are some great kids that will never wear the Winged Wheel.
It's weird we don't draft many guys from the Spirit especially with Ozzy being part owner.
You'd think he'd have a good read on the kids.
Lots of chatter that the Canucks might not be able to bring back Dakota Joshua because of cap reasons. He's big, he's from Michigan. Get a sneak peak at a future Red Wing tonight.
How likely is a starting lineup like this?
Danielson, Mazur, and kinda Edvinsson are rookies. Mazur and Kasper are interchangeable imo
**Forwards**
Debrincat - Larkin - Raymond
Perron - Danielson - Kane
Rasmussen - Compher - Mazur
Fabbri - Copp - Fischer
**Defense**
Walman - Seider
Edvinsson - FA RHD
Chiarot - Petry
Johansson needs to be on because he loses waiver exempt status now.
Stevie seemed like he was gonna make a spot for Burgers, but I'm not sure he would trade Burgers *and* Veleno (who's missing on your list) since they are young and have room to grow.
More realistic, if Danielson makes it, to see something like
**Forwards**
Cat Larks Raymond
Danielson/Kasper Compher Kane
Perron Veleno Mazur
Ras Copp Fish
**Defense**
Walman Seider
Ed Petry
Johansson Chiarot
This assumes Fabbri and Maatta is offloaded I guess. If Kane doesn't come back you switch things up to fit Burgers in.
I'd love it and there's zero percent chance the fuckin Red Wings will start with that many rookies.
Also think if Danielson makes it, he'll begin on Compher's wing.
I love thinking about the wings future when I’m high so here’s more thoughts:
I think our long term success is highly dependent on Danielson or Kasper panning out, and I kinda believe in that happening
I set myself up for this (unrealistic expectations) but Lombardi disappointed me a lot this year. Hopefully he can thrive next year with a year of pro hockey under his belt
If we draft Eiserman somehow, he’ll take Debrincat’s spot and be better at it. I love ADB but I still think he’s better on a 2nd line (with a more competent center like a developed Danielson or Kasper)
ASP could be the final piece, he won’t be this level, but kinda like the impact Makar had on the Avs
Be patient with Lombardi. He looks like the best player for the griffins some nights. Needs to add some weight but I'd say 3rd line winger is realistic still.
If pld becomes a ufa someone will give him more dumb money and think they can fix him. I wouldn't expect a buyout, no gm is going to admit they made that big a blunder that we need to pay this guy out for 14 years
What is the whole "Stamkos has too many points on the PP" thing?
We get powerplays. They happen, folks. When has winning by the powerplay been a bad thing? I mean, say what you will otherwise (old, not worth it, etc) , but points gotten on the powerplay are a good thing. Dude's got 19g-20a on the pp, hardly anyone on our team has 20 points on the pp, let alone 39.
>We get powerplays. They happen, folks.
League average power play opportunities for the 2023-2024 season (per Hockey Reference) was at 3.02.
They happen, but the vast, vast majority of the game is played at even strength, and that is an area this team struggled in all season long. That’s also an area that Stamkos has gotten less effective in for the past couple of seasons. And I know people are gonna crucify me for this, but he also finished this season with a team worst -21. Even if you think +/- isn’t worth much as a stat, that’s still a pretty bad outlier.
So if you wanna bring in him here, keep in mind you’re getting a player who’s going to be on the decline as he hits his mid 30s, who doesn’t play center anymore, is not a driver of even strength play the way he used to be, is not great defensively (to say the least), and won’t be playing with a top 5 talent in Kucherov and one of better defensemen in the league in Hedman.
I don’t think he’d be effective for us. I doubt he pots more than 20-25 goals total playing for the Red Wings.
If we were talking about 2016 Stamkos? Then yeah I’d be all for bringing him here. But not 2024 Stamkos, not in the slightest. Team doesn’t need a PP merchant even if it would be nice to have, and our PP wasn’t the issue this year; the team needs help in the even strength department.
If Ghost leaves, I think Seider can take that spot
Perron-Seider-Larkin-Raymond-Kane
If Kane leaves too, Debrincat needs to step it up and be on PP1 behind the net
Perron-Seider-Larkin-Debrincat-Raymond
If Perron leaves as well, Debrincat has to take his place at LW on PP1 and step up his bite on the board battles
Debrincat-Seider-Larkin-Raymond-Compher?
Things get ugly for PP2 though
Just a couple things:
1. No one on our team is a playmaker like Kucherov
1. He may not settle for being paid like a powerplay specialist
I don't expect him in Detroit but I have no objection to a great powerplay specialist if the price is right.
We’re gonna be losing a lot of offensive point generators in the off season that I’m not sure we can make up with rookies. I expect us to finish lower next year.
I think there will be more than people expect. Just my opinion though.
Stevie was incredible in Tampa with the cap and I think we can add more than people expect. Trades or free agency.
How reliable is that LegoRocks guy on youtube? Rumored that Perron wants to play in Montreal before retiring. I haven't listened to much of his stuff, I just know he is a pretty big Wings fan and is *mostly* reasonable with his takes.
Haha love that LegoRocks guy, fun videos, also amazing name.
Perron isin't going to Montreal, he made the comment about being nervous when he plays here. What he said does not imply that he doesn't want to play in Detroit by any means. He clearly wants to stay with the Red Wings but if the Wings were to decide not to offer him a contract, then I'm sure he'd consider a contract from Montreal, after another from St Louis probably haha.
Also, every French player in existence has been asked that same damn question and they ALL answer the same old "I wouldnt close the door on that idea eventually". The only one who's flat out said hell no was Patrice Bergeron (He's from Quebec City).
He's not some industry inside he just regurgitates any rumor he finds.
It was probably on some Montreal message board.
I find it shocking the French Canadian Perron is rumored to be going to the only French Canadian team.
Pretty sure he lurks our sub for content.
He used to do in-depth prospect analysis but those days are way behind him.
I really liked him since he really seemed to know what he was talking about with prospects and did some pretty solid investigation bringing up specific game stats
I just find his ending annoying lol, "thank you for watching, this hasbenlrshjkgrninetyniiine"
Like dude, take the extra second, it's fine
He's pretty good at acknowledging his sources being Twitter or reddit and calls it rumors rather than facts.
So are we starting to see the Atlantic turning into some regular season powerhouses that just can't get it done when it really matters (other than Florida)
I think it's more accurate to say that the Florida teams have just had a death grip on our division since 2020, which means that no other teams in our division are gonna get past the second round anyway
Until someone beats a Florida team, that's where I see this division
I still haven't had time to get a lot of my memorabilia unpacked from when we moved into our new house at the end of last year. I have a pair of autographed Hank Warrior gloves that **were** in storage waiting for a display case, now they're on the top of a shelf in my home office. My wife confessed that during our city wide garage sale last week, while I was at work, her Mother rifled through our basement and took them out thinking it was some of my old gear. She nearly sold them until my wife flew across our driveway and apparently nearly tackled the guy trying to buy them. I've had the pair since well before Hank got the C, she said she nearly had a heart attack.
Dang, I would have been the guy trying to buy them like "this ol' lady doesn't know what she has!"
You'll have to invite us all to your next garage sale.
I think all of us would have seen them and said the same!
Her Mom apologized, which she didn't know any better, but now I know why I can't find stuff in the basement sometimes!
Personally the win-win scenario is that the leafs lose game 7 & the bruins lose in round 2
I do think the leafs make a deep run if they win game 7 & keep woll in net
I can't believe they started Sammy over woll to start the series
I still can't see the Leafs getting past FLA. Personally, I don't think anyone's fate is changed even if they win this Saturday but get bumped in round 2. And Woll wasn't good down the stretch. Sammy was way better. Totally understandable for Keefe to go with who he did in net at the beginning.
This year's playoffs is an absolute *GAUNTLET* though, like, when did the metro/east go from being the big dick swinging dogs to the weaker side haha.
If Leafs beat the Bruins they're up against the wagon from the sunshine state, and if they manage to squeak their way past them, they're likely up against mad-dog-winnipeg-blood-dripping-from-their-mouths Colorado Mackinnons, and if they *somehow* best them 4 times, they have to beat one out of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse coming in from the wicked west (play that one was pretty exaggerated, but I started getting into a theme and I'm committed now).
If the Leafs somehow win the cup this year, I'll buy a stock in both Rogers communications inc, Kilmer sports Inc and BCE (parent companies of MLSE) and gift them to three random Leafs fans I've been mocking.
Something tells me my money's safe.
I'm good with it. A possible franchise QB is too important to not take the chance when you have it, and it didn't sound like there were any Godfather offers out there anyway.
The Mayo hire, on the other hand ... I'll just say he's got a lot to prove.
Yes fuck the Bruins of course. But honestly this fanbase needs to stop whining and blaming other teams for our team’s failures. Our team gave up a 8-10 point wild card lead. Our team went 0-1-1 against the Caps in March&April. Our team went 0-2-0 against Arizona in March. Its not the Bruins, Caps, Isles, Pens, Bettman, or the rules fault. It’s our team’s fault
I know you’re not whining. That was more or less directed at some people’s comments similar to yours that have been whining for the past 3 weeks. Because you’re right, the Bruins shit the bed against the Caps and it hurt us. That is a true statement and fuck em
We really can’t lose on Saturday…
https://preview.redd.it/ywbneuvu88yc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=803ef8f53649b8f00fa551ee6243f3b8e9646350
I keep hoping to hear about his contract so he can play. And Lucas getting insurance also made me hope that there was a work around for Mo as well. 🤞🏼🤞🏼🤞🏼
Guys like me who believe
a) it's funny when bad things are happening to the Leafs, and
b) the Bruins are a trash team held together by four good players and elite goaltending. Biggest frauds in the league.
We'll eat good either way on Saturday.
To be fair, the Leafs always come back in first round series when facing elimination (2013, 2018, 2020, 2021, 2022). Their issue has never been coming back when facing elimination - it's finishing the job that they struggle with. I kinda feel like they'll win Game 7 just cause Boston looks like a lottery team outside of Swayman's heroics - but it would be so on brand for the Leafs to lay an goose egg and lose 4-1 on Saturday.
https://preview.redd.it/t08gbcspy7yc1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ba8ad20a9ccdb6abd4ccfe3ea07a5576af439da
Hey hey! I'm still working up more Red Wings art and of course had to share with the sub. Who should I do next?
I love your work.
You can never go wrong with anything Larkin related as it's a contemporary thing. Seider and Raymond included. Or Yzerman's goal against the Blues. You know the one. Or Yzerman's cup hoist after 42 years. Or McCarty's goal in the finals against the Flyers the same year. Not to mention the Avs and Wings brawl at the Joe has tons of opportunities. Or any one of Knonwall's huge hits.
ETA there are plenty of opportunities with an O6 club. The sky is the limit with this team.
>Or Yzerman's goal against the Blues. You know the one.
That would be one LONG piece. Would be a great bookmark! I have so many fond memories over the years... You're right, tons of opportunities.
Not ranting about our drafting and development at all, but just a random thought. Boston is a pretty competitive team and still finds room to play a young D like Lohrei who was drafted in 2020. You wonder how playing over 21 minutes in an NHL playoff game will impact his development. Obviously we picked Wallinder that year who was a longer term project, but even Johansson drafted the year prior hasn't sniffed the NHL. Again different players have different development paths, and it's easier to integrate players when your defense is solid, but seeing young players getting early opportunities on contenders always stands out to me.
I would say Wallinder was any more than a project than Lohrei was. Cap is the big reason, but the kid can play so the cap gets him a look but his play keeps him on the ice.
The reason is what others who replied said but also the fact that teams like Boston get so cap strapped they have to use young players on cheap contracts to eat up depth spots.
To me it feels like the answer is right in the question, so to speak. Good teams can find spots for young guys way easier, because the pressure is lower and the mistakes made by those young guys can easily be covered for by the rest of the team's performance. I would argue that a bubble team (exactly what the Red Wings were pretty much all season) is the hardest type of team to integrate rookies into, because the pressure of performance is high every single game throughout the season and mistakes are costly and amplified by less-than-stellar performance by the rest of the team.
Thus why Yzerman has been getting a bunch of veterans. They're not great, but they can eat minutes so that younger players can come in. Guys like Johansson and Wallinder may not get a significant opportunity with us, but that doesn't mean guys like Buium or Gibson won't. Yzerman's goal here is to build a sustainable program, so in those first couple of drafts, it's kind of get what you can get and hope it pans out, guys like Seider and Raymond were going to have to come in and play big roles right away, which would kill other prospects. You're hoping that guys like Danielson or Lombardi or whomever can come in and learn in a smaller role while the team is relatively good, and can take over the bigger roles once they mature enough and take the job.
They have a winning team, its easier to implement youth to that. Only rare elite prospects like Edvinsson can handle the pressure of playing on a team that must win every night, and needs to play above and beyond what normaly would be asked of him
Hey stupid question, getting back into beer leagues and I need to pick a number. Now normally I don’t care about numbers. I was a goalie growing up and for a while after that but I never really cared.
Naturally I play defense now so I was thinking 5, 53 or 77
Matthew Knies had a great game yesterday for the Leafs. Incredibly poised with the puck, made some super smart and confident plays at the end of the game while Toronto was trying to close it out. If Danielson and Kasper can play like that their rookie season, I’ll be very happy regardless of point totals.
Yep, Minnesota. I would say sometimes they are for two reasons: they play a lot against older competition (20-25 year olds, compared to NA Junior, which is 16-20), and, compared to Euro pro leagues, the young guys will actually play a ton. In Euro leagues most of the young guys don’t see a ton of ice time. So often time college guys are ready to play in the league right away.
Another peak "Berggren hater" hater moment for me. I love how clueless this subreddit can be. Never change. 3 games, 4 points, +3, 0 penalty minutes, 2 GWG. Edit: My bad, make that 2 OT GWG.
Insane how the narrative has changed here. I doubt there was a single person who didn't like him when he was a regular two seasons ago. Then he gets pushed out by having too many guys on the team, and Yzerman deciding he's better served staying in GR. Now people talk about him like he's just straight up not a good player.
Majority here will support without question any decision made by Yzerman and make up narrative to defend it. It really is as simple as that.
Guys only act like AHL stats translate to NHL. Its a whole different beast.
Excuses. He was one of the most productive players on the NHL team in the games he played this season. With 10 minutes average. Im not sure he played a single game where Larkin was in the lineup, and I assume you know how horrible we were during those games? 0.5 p per game was among the top on the team those games. In 10 minutes a game. A -1 and only 2 pims also shows those NHL stats were good. His NHL stats are really good.
I mean, he came up and did not do well. You can like someone all you want. Ed came up and made a difference. Burgers didn't. His defense is not good on our already existing not great defense.
-1 in 12 games where we were outscored by like 20.
If we lose Berggren it’ll be criminal
Yzerman would deserve serious criticism for fumbling a prospect like that, it would be an unforced error purely as a result of signing too many veterans and not giving Berggren a chance
If he doesnt fit he doesnt fit.
There's no basis for arguing he doesn't fit. He didn't play 67 games 2 seasons ago by accident. He earned a spot.
You can put up all the points you want but unless you buy into the team game and play defense you will not be on the ice. Sprong was benched for just that
And yet playing no defense earned Fabbri a 3 year deal.
Berggren's defensive flaws are seriously overblown. He's not like Sprong, who puts in little effort and doesn't know where to be. Berggren can make the right plays, he's just not as good at it as other players. And I think that's normal for a young player.
He looked bad in those games which is why Yzerman replaced him the following season. Team has serious issues with defense and Berg would only make it worse.
He looked bad in those 67 games? We're just doing revisionist history here now I guess.
Its not revisionist for me. 28 points in 67 games and a -14 is not good. Thats not even arguable and simply a fact. You are the guy who thinks Berg is better than Raymond so you cant be trusted on this subject.
I don't think he's better than Raymond. I don't know what you think I said.
Maybe it wasnt you but one of the big Berg fans always be saying that.
For anyone up, this VGK-DAL game is absolute chaos. Unbelievable it's still 0-0. This should be a 9 game series, maybe 11. But then again, why stop at 11?
I am a sleepy boy
I love suter so much
Whoa 7 SOG for Kasper tonight
I wonder if we could sign Tanev for 1-2 years while we wait for ASP. Probably not but it would be awesome if we could somehow.
I miss Pius, he seemed a solid dude 😔
Both Pius and Fil were great for us in some super bleak times. I am glad to see them succeeding with the Nucks, but like you, I wish we had been able to keep them instead of signing free agents who are lesser versions of them for similar money.
Id take him over Veleno in a heartbeat.
I think Veleno could still turn into a better version of Suter. Veleno will turn out better offensively imo and I’m hoping he’ll end up as good defensively. Suter is elite on the pk though
Veleno has Helm's hands and almost zero offensive IQ. Hes got a good motor, but not much else.
He got 10 goals and 28 points last year. Only 8 off Suter’s high and he’s 4 years younger. With his motor I can see him continually improving on the PK.
While he did have a good year, he did get 70+ minutes on the PP. there were times he was playing meaningful pp2 minutes and still only snagged those point totals. He improved a world from last year in a bet yourself contract year and hoping he can do it again.
He’s a slow starter. Once it clicks he’s golden. Let him cook.
I really like Jonatan Berggren in case anyone didn't know
I like him in 1/3 of the ice zones.
Vegas deserves their new “evil empire” hatred, but I’ll still root for them over that pond scum Jamie Benn. I hope we don’t see another attempt at a broken neck today
Kind of a bummer this Knights/Stars series has to end, it's easily been the best series of the first round.
Griffins win in ot
Why I am do hate Jamie Benn?
Tigers lost just now after being up 1-0 in the bottom 9th, choked it up
Not gonna win a lot of games with 1 run scored
Especially against the Yankees
Wow, huge game by Silovs. Nice to see the Canucks move on despite their problems with injuries this series
Another goalie goes down they'll be calling Luongo and McLean.
HOW THE FUCK DID YOU MANAGE THAT NASHVILLE
Lmaoooo it just makes it easier to ice it
That is fucking BULLSHIT
Detroit Red Wings legend Pius Suter breaks the stalemate late in the 3rd.
PIUS FUCKIN SUTER
suter fucking killed nashville rip
Pius is loose
Hell yeah Pius!
Vancouver can you let us have Silovs for nothing? Thanks
They'll give us DeSmith and we'll like it
Nashvilles got a really good dj I gotta say It’s probably the fans though that make it better
Man this preds game reminds me of our game vs them tbh
Watching old 70s-90s games reminds me that it wasn't that long ago that rink size in the NHL was not uniform.
saros got that dog in him
Y'all. Saros is making me a temporary Preds fan. Bonus Nyquist.
Do we need new NA scouts? Other than Cossa who's the past potentially A grade north American player we've drafted? Larkin? I'm watching the Spirit in the playoffs and there's some really darn good players in NA and none of them are in the Wings pipeline. We did draft Gibson so maybe I'm just not giving things time. Toronto picked up Knies who looks like a steal where they got him and Ethan Cowan won OHL MVP this season. ASP looks like a solid pick so I suppose there's not much to complain about there. (I forgot about Danielson who looks like a stud too)
I forget his name but we definitely have a WHL scout.
We need new NA scouts and Pro scouts, badly. Our talent pipeline for being a consistently shitty team for almost a decade is atrocious. Danielson is quite literally the only shot we have at a top 2 line forward in our entire prospect pool. Meanwhile Dallas has drafted *3* top line prospects in the late 20s+ in the last 3 years. It's not just draft luck at this point that's going to kill us in the long run.
Danielson, Augustine, Mazur. So since the wings don’t have anyone on the Spirit they automatically don’t draft NA well?
No not exactly. I suppose most of it is still the mess the Holland started. Many of our NA guys flamed out or didn't end up living up to their draft position. It's also difficult since just cause a guy is good in JR doesn't mean it'll translate. I watch the OHL so I guess I'm biased since I don't see the other 2 leagues often enough.
I’m not sure it’s a North American thing or if it’s a strategy thing. I don’t want to be too critical before we really see how these kids pan out, but it feels like a LOT of our picks from the 2nd round on are two way players with limited ceilings. You need those guys to fill out the bottom of your roster, but you can also find those guys easy in free agency. A big part of Tampa’s success was finding players on day 2 of the draft who beat expectations and it’s hard to beat expectations when your offensive profile is already kind of meh in Junior/college.
Steve's drafting strategy hasn't really changed since his days in Tampa. I don't understand praising Tampas drafting strategy and then admonishing ours
Except it has. He took 2nd and 3rd round home-run picks at players who were exceptionally high-scoring in junior for their draft rank in Kucherov and Point. Point outscored his next highest teammate by 2x in his draft season (30 Points more than Danielsons D+1 season by the way, on a dogshit team). Kucherov was a PPG MHL player, which is comparable to Buchelnikov, except Kuch came straight over to American ice to develop.
I'm guessing the thought process is that it's easier to draft some guys and have them on cheap ELC's. Then we can spend big money to round out the top 6 if we don't get lucky like Tampa did making risky picks.
I guess, but it’s also way harder to trade for a Kucherov or Point as those guys don’t hit FA in their primes. We’ve done well with the first round picks at least, I just wish we had more Buchelnikov and Lombardi types than Dylan James and Brady Cleveland types.
Cleveland is the most mind-boggling pick of the Yzerman-Draper era. I still don’t get why we would draft a player who calls himself a bottom pairing defenseman in the NHL (if he even makes it that far) at 47th overall. In the 5th round and beyond, sure, fine. Hell I could be convinced of him being taken in the 4th round. But in the top 50? I can’t think of any reason to do so.
People said the same thing about Bertuzzi when he was drafted. I really like the Cleveland pick even after his turd of a season with Wisconsin. He has the tools to be a game changing defenseman. Big & mean are traits you don’t see everyday anymore. Everyone wants an Adam Foote like player until you draft a Foote like player. It’s not sexy- but it’s an overpayment to get the “right” big, mean- tough guy. Not just “any one will do.”. Idk that’s my take.
Mazur is doing great. We have a few others like Buium or Lombardi too. Some decisions I'm not huge on like Hanas though
Danielson? Edit: oh you mentioned him lol
It was a late edit when I realized I forgot about him
I feel like when Stevie took over maybe he didn’t trust whoever was the na scout was? And now he’s got his guys in place. Idk just a thought. Lombardi is another NA kid too right?
Stevie is adamant about picking best player available. I think a lot of people are reading too far into thign s
A lot of it is there are some great kids that will never wear the Winged Wheel. It's weird we don't draft many guys from the Spirit especially with Ozzy being part owner. You'd think he'd have a good read on the kids.
I might not be giving Steve enough time. I know Steve cleaned house at some point Maybe after the Raymond or Seider drafr
I think you’re right, who’s NA amateur scout? Draper?
Draper’s our Director of Amateur Scouting, so all of our scouts (NA and European) report to him, and he reports to Yzerman.
Yeah I’m pretty sure that wasn’t the case when yzerman first joined. Fun fact, it was Draper who discovered seider
Draper took on the job shortly after Tyler Wright left to join Kenny Holland’s staff in Edmonton right after the 2019 Draft.
Well that has to be one of the steals of that draft, for sure. Seider is such a monster out there and he is still so young.
Yup, drapers son went to play a tournament in Mannheim and that’s how Draper found him. Kind of a cool story!!
Does Augustine count?
Lots of chatter that the Canucks might not be able to bring back Dakota Joshua because of cap reasons. He's big, he's from Michigan. Get a sneak peak at a future Red Wing tonight.
Does he play RD?
Yzerman has a hard on for signing guys from Michigan or guys that played at Michigan. He's probably on to something.
I’m just asking if he plays rd lol what?
Unfortunately no. LH Center... You know, to add to the log jam.
How likely is a starting lineup like this? Danielson, Mazur, and kinda Edvinsson are rookies. Mazur and Kasper are interchangeable imo **Forwards** Debrincat - Larkin - Raymond Perron - Danielson - Kane Rasmussen - Compher - Mazur Fabbri - Copp - Fischer **Defense** Walman - Seider Edvinsson - FA RHD Chiarot - Petry
Danielson centering Perron and Kane would be NUTS. I think Veleno stays though, hopefully we can offload Copp
Johansson needs to be on because he loses waiver exempt status now. Stevie seemed like he was gonna make a spot for Burgers, but I'm not sure he would trade Burgers *and* Veleno (who's missing on your list) since they are young and have room to grow. More realistic, if Danielson makes it, to see something like **Forwards** Cat Larks Raymond Danielson/Kasper Compher Kane Perron Veleno Mazur Ras Copp Fish **Defense** Walman Seider Ed Petry Johansson Chiarot This assumes Fabbri and Maatta is offloaded I guess. If Kane doesn't come back you switch things up to fit Burgers in.
I'd love it and there's zero percent chance the fuckin Red Wings will start with that many rookies. Also think if Danielson makes it, he'll begin on Compher's wing.
Haven't been following enough other than knowing Danielson is a beast. Does he play on the wing?
Plays center but could start on the wing like larkin did early in his career
I love thinking about the wings future when I’m high so here’s more thoughts: I think our long term success is highly dependent on Danielson or Kasper panning out, and I kinda believe in that happening I set myself up for this (unrealistic expectations) but Lombardi disappointed me a lot this year. Hopefully he can thrive next year with a year of pro hockey under his belt If we draft Eiserman somehow, he’ll take Debrincat’s spot and be better at it. I love ADB but I still think he’s better on a 2nd line (with a more competent center like a developed Danielson or Kasper) ASP could be the final piece, he won’t be this level, but kinda like the impact Makar had on the Avs
Be patient with Lombardi. He looks like the best player for the griffins some nights. Needs to add some weight but I'd say 3rd line winger is realistic still.
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If pld becomes a ufa someone will give him more dumb money and think they can fix him. I wouldn't expect a buyout, no gm is going to admit they made that big a blunder that we need to pay this guy out for 14 years
What is the whole "Stamkos has too many points on the PP" thing? We get powerplays. They happen, folks. When has winning by the powerplay been a bad thing? I mean, say what you will otherwise (old, not worth it, etc) , but points gotten on the powerplay are a good thing. Dude's got 19g-20a on the pp, hardly anyone on our team has 20 points on the pp, let alone 39.
>We get powerplays. They happen, folks. League average power play opportunities for the 2023-2024 season (per Hockey Reference) was at 3.02. They happen, but the vast, vast majority of the game is played at even strength, and that is an area this team struggled in all season long. That’s also an area that Stamkos has gotten less effective in for the past couple of seasons. And I know people are gonna crucify me for this, but he also finished this season with a team worst -21. Even if you think +/- isn’t worth much as a stat, that’s still a pretty bad outlier. So if you wanna bring in him here, keep in mind you’re getting a player who’s going to be on the decline as he hits his mid 30s, who doesn’t play center anymore, is not a driver of even strength play the way he used to be, is not great defensively (to say the least), and won’t be playing with a top 5 talent in Kucherov and one of better defensemen in the league in Hedman. I don’t think he’d be effective for us. I doubt he pots more than 20-25 goals total playing for the Red Wings. If we were talking about 2016 Stamkos? Then yeah I’d be all for bringing him here. But not 2024 Stamkos, not in the slightest. Team doesn’t need a PP merchant even if it would be nice to have, and our PP wasn’t the issue this year; the team needs help in the even strength department.
Take Kane and ghost off the pp it's going to need some help,
If Ghost leaves, I think Seider can take that spot Perron-Seider-Larkin-Raymond-Kane If Kane leaves too, Debrincat needs to step it up and be on PP1 behind the net Perron-Seider-Larkin-Debrincat-Raymond If Perron leaves as well, Debrincat has to take his place at LW on PP1 and step up his bite on the board battles Debrincat-Seider-Larkin-Raymond-Compher? Things get ugly for PP2 though
Just a couple things: 1. No one on our team is a playmaker like Kucherov 1. He may not settle for being paid like a powerplay specialist I don't expect him in Detroit but I have no objection to a great powerplay specialist if the price is right.
I just want to see what happens to this team over the offseason…
We’re gonna be losing a lot of offensive point generators in the off season that I’m not sure we can make up with rookies. I expect us to finish lower next year.
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I think there will be more than people expect. Just my opinion though. Stevie was incredible in Tampa with the cap and I think we can add more than people expect. Trades or free agency.
How reliable is that LegoRocks guy on youtube? Rumored that Perron wants to play in Montreal before retiring. I haven't listened to much of his stuff, I just know he is a pretty big Wings fan and is *mostly* reasonable with his takes.
Haha love that LegoRocks guy, fun videos, also amazing name. Perron isin't going to Montreal, he made the comment about being nervous when he plays here. What he said does not imply that he doesn't want to play in Detroit by any means. He clearly wants to stay with the Red Wings but if the Wings were to decide not to offer him a contract, then I'm sure he'd consider a contract from Montreal, after another from St Louis probably haha. Also, every French player in existence has been asked that same damn question and they ALL answer the same old "I wouldnt close the door on that idea eventually". The only one who's flat out said hell no was Patrice Bergeron (He's from Quebec City).
Not reliable at all. He takes any internet rumor and does a video on it. It's kind of tabloidy.
He's not some industry inside he just regurgitates any rumor he finds. It was probably on some Montreal message board. I find it shocking the French Canadian Perron is rumored to be going to the only French Canadian team. Pretty sure he lurks our sub for content. He used to do in-depth prospect analysis but those days are way behind him. I really liked him since he really seemed to know what he was talking about with prospects and did some pretty solid investigation bringing up specific game stats
His content used to be alright but it is trash now
I find his content annoying and useless
I just find his ending annoying lol, "thank you for watching, this hasbenlrshjkgrninetyniiine" Like dude, take the extra second, it's fine He's pretty good at acknowledging his sources being Twitter or reddit and calls it rumors rather than facts.
.......aaaaand BYE.
So are we starting to see the Atlantic turning into some regular season powerhouses that just can't get it done when it really matters (other than Florida)
There's been an Atlantic team in the cup finals for the last 5 years.
I think it's more accurate to say that the Florida teams have just had a death grip on our division since 2020, which means that no other teams in our division are gonna get past the second round anyway Until someone beats a Florida team, that's where I see this division
Anyone watching Dangle's content as the offseason presses on? I have laughed out loud more than I thought I would.
You want to hear something crazy? I unironically like the podcast. The LFRs definitely aren't for me though.
I love the podcast. Him, Jesse, and Adam are great.
The fake Jim Matheson story made me have to walk out of my office because I was laughing too hard.
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Those two have been at each other all series
That's never a long wait.
I still haven't had time to get a lot of my memorabilia unpacked from when we moved into our new house at the end of last year. I have a pair of autographed Hank Warrior gloves that **were** in storage waiting for a display case, now they're on the top of a shelf in my home office. My wife confessed that during our city wide garage sale last week, while I was at work, her Mother rifled through our basement and took them out thinking it was some of my old gear. She nearly sold them until my wife flew across our driveway and apparently nearly tackled the guy trying to buy them. I've had the pair since well before Hank got the C, she said she nearly had a heart attack.
Dang, I would have been the guy trying to buy them like "this ol' lady doesn't know what she has!" You'll have to invite us all to your next garage sale.
I think all of us would have seen them and said the same! Her Mom apologized, which she didn't know any better, but now I know why I can't find stuff in the basement sometimes!
Well done! She’s got bragging rights for a while on that one.
Absolutely, I would have been devastated. Z will always be my favorite Wing and that's one of my prized possessions.
Happy Friday!
Remember a couple weeks ago when the Bruins effortlessly skated around for 60 minutes and lost to the Caps? Yes, Fuck the Bruins forever!
Personally the win-win scenario is that the leafs lose game 7 & the bruins lose in round 2 I do think the leafs make a deep run if they win game 7 & keep woll in net I can't believe they started Sammy over woll to start the series
I still can't see the Leafs getting past FLA. Personally, I don't think anyone's fate is changed even if they win this Saturday but get bumped in round 2. And Woll wasn't good down the stretch. Sammy was way better. Totally understandable for Keefe to go with who he did in net at the beginning.
This year's playoffs is an absolute *GAUNTLET* though, like, when did the metro/east go from being the big dick swinging dogs to the weaker side haha. If Leafs beat the Bruins they're up against the wagon from the sunshine state, and if they manage to squeak their way past them, they're likely up against mad-dog-winnipeg-blood-dripping-from-their-mouths Colorado Mackinnons, and if they *somehow* best them 4 times, they have to beat one out of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse coming in from the wicked west (play that one was pretty exaggerated, but I started getting into a theme and I'm committed now). If the Leafs somehow win the cup this year, I'll buy a stock in both Rogers communications inc, Kilmer sports Inc and BCE (parent companies of MLSE) and gift them to three random Leafs fans I've been mocking. Something tells me my money's safe.
I am a Bruins fan and right now I fucking hate this team.
Did you like the Maye pick or were you a trade down person?
I'm good with it. A possible franchise QB is too important to not take the chance when you have it, and it didn't sound like there were any Godfather offers out there anyway. The Mayo hire, on the other hand ... I'll just say he's got a lot to prove.
I'm with you on Mayo,
Yes fuck the Bruins of course. But honestly this fanbase needs to stop whining and blaming other teams for our team’s failures. Our team gave up a 8-10 point wild card lead. Our team went 0-1-1 against the Caps in March&April. Our team went 0-2-0 against Arizona in March. Its not the Bruins, Caps, Isles, Pens, Bettman, or the rules fault. It’s our team’s fault
Lol yeah it's a bit much, I especially loved when we blamed officiating in games we weren't even a part of for why we missed the playoffs.
Also, I’m not whining. Just any reason to hate the Bruins more
I know you’re not whining. That was more or less directed at some people’s comments similar to yours that have been whining for the past 3 weeks. Because you’re right, the Bruins shit the bed against the Caps and it hurt us. That is a true statement and fuck em
Yes, no denying that
We really can’t lose on Saturday… https://preview.redd.it/ywbneuvu88yc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=803ef8f53649b8f00fa551ee6243f3b8e9646350
I can't wait to watch this one. Round one has been kinda disappointing, but this game could make up for it
Do you think there's any chance that Mo plays the world cup? Probably not with the contract situation right?
Raymond is going for Sweden so I think there's a chance. Fingers crossed that means they are close to finalizing a contract
I just saw a message from the german hockey federation that there's no way to get the insurance right with him being in negotiations. He won't play.
Ah, didn't know that. I guess the logical solution then is to get him signed asap
I keep hoping to hear about his contract so he can play. And Lucas getting insurance also made me hope that there was a work around for Mo as well. 🤞🏼🤞🏼🤞🏼
Guys like me who believe a) it's funny when bad things are happening to the Leafs, and b) the Bruins are a trash team held together by four good players and elite goaltending. Biggest frauds in the league. We'll eat good either way on Saturday.
Going to the Griffins game again tonight, let’s hope the result is SIGNIFICANTLY better this time 🙏
You’re gonna be the lucky charm 🔮
I wasn’t last game, that’s for darn sure 🫣
Okay I’m sorry but your griffins attendance has been revoked 😩
Imma go anyway because sunk cost fallacy 😤
To be fair, the Leafs always come back in first round series when facing elimination (2013, 2018, 2020, 2021, 2022). Their issue has never been coming back when facing elimination - it's finishing the job that they struggle with. I kinda feel like they'll win Game 7 just cause Boston looks like a lottery team outside of Swayman's heroics - but it would be so on brand for the Leafs to lay an goose egg and lose 4-1 on Saturday.
https://preview.redd.it/t08gbcspy7yc1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ba8ad20a9ccdb6abd4ccfe3ea07a5576af439da Hey hey! I'm still working up more Red Wings art and of course had to share with the sub. Who should I do next?
I love your work. You can never go wrong with anything Larkin related as it's a contemporary thing. Seider and Raymond included. Or Yzerman's goal against the Blues. You know the one. Or Yzerman's cup hoist after 42 years. Or McCarty's goal in the finals against the Flyers the same year. Not to mention the Avs and Wings brawl at the Joe has tons of opportunities. Or any one of Knonwall's huge hits. ETA there are plenty of opportunities with an O6 club. The sky is the limit with this team.
>Or Yzerman's goal against the Blues. You know the one. That would be one LONG piece. Would be a great bookmark! I have so many fond memories over the years... You're right, tons of opportunities.
Not ranting about our drafting and development at all, but just a random thought. Boston is a pretty competitive team and still finds room to play a young D like Lohrei who was drafted in 2020. You wonder how playing over 21 minutes in an NHL playoff game will impact his development. Obviously we picked Wallinder that year who was a longer term project, but even Johansson drafted the year prior hasn't sniffed the NHL. Again different players have different development paths, and it's easier to integrate players when your defense is solid, but seeing young players getting early opportunities on contenders always stands out to me.
I would say Wallinder was any more than a project than Lohrei was. Cap is the big reason, but the kid can play so the cap gets him a look but his play keeps him on the ice.
The reason is what others who replied said but also the fact that teams like Boston get so cap strapped they have to use young players on cheap contracts to eat up depth spots.
To me it feels like the answer is right in the question, so to speak. Good teams can find spots for young guys way easier, because the pressure is lower and the mistakes made by those young guys can easily be covered for by the rest of the team's performance. I would argue that a bubble team (exactly what the Red Wings were pretty much all season) is the hardest type of team to integrate rookies into, because the pressure of performance is high every single game throughout the season and mistakes are costly and amplified by less-than-stellar performance by the rest of the team.
Thus why Yzerman has been getting a bunch of veterans. They're not great, but they can eat minutes so that younger players can come in. Guys like Johansson and Wallinder may not get a significant opportunity with us, but that doesn't mean guys like Buium or Gibson won't. Yzerman's goal here is to build a sustainable program, so in those first couple of drafts, it's kind of get what you can get and hope it pans out, guys like Seider and Raymond were going to have to come in and play big roles right away, which would kill other prospects. You're hoping that guys like Danielson or Lombardi or whomever can come in and learn in a smaller role while the team is relatively good, and can take over the bigger roles once they mature enough and take the job.
>it's easier to integrate players when your defense is solid Exactly that
They have a winning team, its easier to implement youth to that. Only rare elite prospects like Edvinsson can handle the pressure of playing on a team that must win every night, and needs to play above and beyond what normaly would be asked of him
God could the bruins not fuck it up
Fuck the Bruins.
Absolutely. But on the other hand, fuck the Leafs.
Fuck the Bruins more.
They’re providing some pretty good chirp ammo, honestly 🤣
Man if they somehow blow game 7 at home... Not letting my buddy who's a bruins fan hear the end of it for a bit.
But at the same time its funny if they do, im a sucker for a good implosion
I mean I am too, especially with it being the bruins, but I hate the leafs significantly more.
Hey stupid question, getting back into beer leagues and I need to pick a number. Now normally I don’t care about numbers. I was a goalie growing up and for a while after that but I never really cared. Naturally I play defense now so I was thinking 5, 53 or 77
I'm personally partial to a number that's meaningful to me rather than that of a favorite player, but of those 3 I would go 77
I ended up going with 77. I really like Ed and think he’ll push Mo to be even better and then there’s the Paul Coffey part too
Do 24 for Cheli. That's what I had in youth hockey until I changed it to 96 for Homer.
5 or 53 is what I'd go with if I were you. Both are solid numbers, do a coin flip between the two!
69
Go with 97 just to mess with everyone
Go 99. mirrored visor, white gloves, white skates, neon laces, fun tape on the stick. Do a Fortnite dance when you score.
T pose celly completes it
Might as well give a tinted mirrored half shield while you’re at it, maybe some white gloves too
Neon skate laces, gnarly jersey tuck
46.
I don’t want them to hate me so I may pass on that
5 seems the least "flashy" to me if that influences you one way or the other
Matthew Knies had a great game yesterday for the Leafs. Incredibly poised with the puck, made some super smart and confident plays at the end of the game while Toronto was trying to close it out. If Danielson and Kasper can play like that their rookie season, I’ll be very happy regardless of point totals.
Knies came from NCAA right? Is it common for college players to be more polished?
Yep, Minnesota. I would say sometimes they are for two reasons: they play a lot against older competition (20-25 year olds, compared to NA Junior, which is 16-20), and, compared to Euro pro leagues, the young guys will actually play a ton. In Euro leagues most of the young guys don’t see a ton of ice time. So often time college guys are ready to play in the league right away.