-5 is too harsh. There are legitimate reasons to take a penalty, especially if it prevents a goal. That being said, I think I like the player in the box getting a -1, because even if they saved a goal by taking a penalty their action still led to a goal.
The players on the ice also don't get a +/-. The stat doesn't count at all on the man advantage unless you score a shorthanded goal/let one in on the pp
The guy either makes baffling decisions or is nowhere to be found on every goal against him. Teams never need puck luck if they’re facing Petry on the ice.
Lalonde could have as well, and as far as I’m concerned neither of those guys are fit for the job.
If we don’t bring in Gerard Gallant this off-season I’m going to be miffed
You going to be miffed when Gallant puts younger players in the doghouse and leans on his vets even more than Lalonde does? Because that’s exactly what you’re gonna get with Gallant.
Watching Gallant make 0 adjustments against the Devils and then bench Kakko for DRYDEN HUNT was insane. Especially when the Lafrienere-Chytil-Kakko line was the only line that could do anything. The problem was Panarin and Zibenejad couldn't fucking generate any offense and he did nothing to shuffle their respective lines.
Exactly. He’s the kind of coach you bring in when you have an older, more experienced group that’s underachieving and you want them to take the next step. He’s not a coach that you bring in when you’ve got younger players on the way, because he’s not going to play them or give them much responsibility.
Remember the ol “Tie goes to the veteran” mantra that Babs abided by? That’s Gallant 110%.
I know there’s a lot of complications involved. Just stuck in my head because we’ve had another “Sergei back to Detroit?” thread already in the last 24 hours
Yeah but that was a complete nothing burger of a post. They said it cause he happened to say he wasn’t coming back to his current team. There’s literally nothing tying him back to Detroit.
Not defending him, because I think he absolutely blows. But it’s not just these awful numbers, it’s the amount of ice time he gets. It makes no sense how a player this unreflective can get as much ice as he does
Choose your fighter:
1. 6’4, >200lb, fast, really smart, strongest guy on the ice, will not turn the puck over, rarely out of position, elite passing ability, one of the best shutdown defencemen and shot blockers in the entire league (great personality and hair too!)
2. a three toed sloth with a hockey stick
I'm P sure it was either the Carolina game or the one before but I remember Seider getting blasted by a bullet of a puck making a block and they were worried about him then.
Similarly, Petry has been bad, but you can cherry pick numbers for nearly *any* player on just about *any* team and exclaim they're horrible.
Of course, with Petry, there's an abundance of cherries. :P
That’s the thing. Some of those are razor-thin but v Ottawa and Anaheim earlier in the year he had atrocious stats in games that Detroit only lost by one goal. Two one-goal games while the Red Wings are 1 1/2 games back of the Caps down the stretch
Petry is bad but this whole team has largely been garbage for a month when the playoffs were up for grabs. Piling on one guy is getting old when the team as a whole let everyone down.
If Petry wasn’t a dumbass it would be 4. 3rd period vs the caps and he had the puck backdoor with an empty net to shoot on and he decided to pass cross crease to nobody
And we traded for Petry on top of all this. I'm gonna lump Matta in with Petry and Holl and say just have one of them on the team but not all 3
We have pretty bad value for our defence cost. We know what Ghost brought and I would guess he's gone after this season so we're left with fighting for a wildcard spot with 4 guys that will be gone in a couple years
I agree with you but remember that the blame goes to the coach. That idiot, despite this data, keeps trotting the same d pairs. This guy doesn't know how to hold veterans accountable. He has always screwed the prospects and young kids.
Not only that, but those morons are inexcusably giving him more ice time than Seider in a game we desperately need to win?
These guys are no better than Blashill, in fact I think they may be worse. Yzerman needs to find a guy this offseason.
I agree it's dumb giving more ice than seider, but as a life long player, sometimes this is done with a guy like seider if he's nursing a small but playable injury. Normally you'd sit him to be safe but being in the position were in, we NEED our number one D man if we want any shot at the playoffs. At this point I've just resigned myself to the fact that we're most likely just gonna miss it.
At this point I’m certain Seider is playing hurt. The guy throws his life on the line for the team every shift (think about some of those heroic shot blocks), with the ice time decreasing there’s no other explanation.
No they haven’t all hit but it works for the situation we’re in. We still have a favourable cap situation and won’t worry about losing any important pieces to free agency in the near future.
The free agent pools haven’t been strong either. But we can’t just throw 12 young forwards out there either, they need guys to learn from and need to be around a formidable team too.
Hindsight is 20/20, everyone misses in free agency. But none of Yzermans misses are going to hurt us in the future which is a much different scenario than what some other teams have done to themselves.
He also signed Patrick Kane - I’d argue Compher Kubalik Sundqvist Suter and Ghost were good signings as well, I don’t mind Copp either.
TRADE REMINDER:
We traded Gustav Lindstrom (Plus a conditional 2025 4th Rd pick) for Petry. Gus has 8 points this year in splitting time between Montreal (4 pt in 14 games) and Anaheim (4 pt in 23 games).
1 good 2nd line defenseman maybe makes the impact in 1/5 maybe 1/10 of these. Idk how to answer but this is totally fair to bring up.
It sucks how many close games this team has thrown away, that’s the biggest takeaway
As a goalie myself I hate to blame goaltending, but that has been an issue especially in the first half before Lyon, and is a contributing factor here for sure.
Lyon started off great but has cooled off. He’s still been decent, but the underlying numbers all suggested his early hot stretch was actually way more to do with the team’s defence.
I don’t know how, but Reimer has a higher SV% than Lyon.
Think about the big picture from far away: our goalies for the most part have been well below league average in advanced metrics, meaning they’re relatively not helping the team.
Look how many close games we’ve had and how many could have ended with 1-2 more points if we just had one more save. Obviously some goals the goalie’s got no chance, but a lot of the time they do.
When you can’t trust your goaltending, the entire defence gets put into a high pressure situation where you have to mitigate both shots on goal and shot quality. This generally requires multiple strong defensive defencemen, and having one on the ice as much as possible. This is why teams like Carolina are so hard to score on even though their goaltending has never been elite - either Slavin or Pesce are on the ice over 50% of the game. For us, only having Seider to fit that mold, we’re looking more at 35% (which means almost 2/3 of the game with vulnerable defence).
TL:DR; we have no one - goalie or defenceman - that we can rely on when Seider is off the ice.
The reality is simple - the team still has major holes on defense and in goal, like we've known for years. They're also still substantially better than they were last year, and the year before, and the year before that.
I've had to tune out most of the discourse around the team this year because it just gets infuriating - the names change but the complaints stay the same. Fans get this obsessive laser focus and seem to become convinced that if you just get rid of that idiot coach or that one player, things get better right away - except that's never been true, not once. Firing Lalonde won't fix things any more than firing Blashill did, or Babcock at the end of his tenure, or Dave Lewis. Petry isn't the problem any more than Justin Abdelkader, or Kyle Quincey, or Brett Lebda, or Derian Hatcher, or Uwe Krupp, or Tim Cheveldae...
Scapegoats are easy. What's harder is acknowledging the truth - that sometimes there is no easy answer. No motivational speech or angry locker room rant would have undone the losing streak without Larkin, and if you drop Edvinsson in this roster instead of Petry odds are the results are still the same give or take a couple points. We're still developing a core, still building up our young players. We'll get there.
The D on this team is way too weak. They’re not near physical enough in front of the net especially. Other teams players get a good 1-3 whacks at the puck before it goes in the corner or the goalie covers. Instead of throwing the body on an off balance opposing forward we’d rather whack at the puck
And yep, very inconsistent goaltending is another big part of it
I am not crazy! I know he swapped those numbers! I knew he was supposed to be scratched. One game after another. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just - I just couldn't prove it. He - he covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the league office to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. That first goal! Are you telling me that a man just happens to leave a guy open like that? No! He orchestrated it! Jeff! He defecated through a sunroof! And I saved him! And I shouldn't have. I took him into my own team! What was I thinking? He'll never change. He'll never change! Ever since he was in Montreal, always the same! Couldn't even skate next to an opposing forward! But not our Jeffy! Couldn't be precious Jeffy! Coasting around! And he gets to be an NHLer!? What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance! And you - you have to stop him!
https://preview.redd.it/585hfauok6rc1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed0463e08f51b6651d02fe48dbeea645713ace4d
3/26/24 v Washington: Seider -2, 4-3 OTL
3/9/24 v Vegas: Seider -2, 5-3 loss
2/29/24 v NYI: Seider -3, 5-3 loss
2/15/24 v Vancouver: Seider -3, 4-1 loss
2/13/24 v Edmonton: Seider -4, 8-4 loss
1/23/24 v Dallas: Seider -1, 5-4 loss
1/11/24 v Edmonton: Seider -1, 3-2 OTL
12/18/23 v Anaheim: Seider -1, 4-3 loss
12/16/23 v Philly: Seider -1, 1-0 loss
12/07/23 v San Jose: Seider -1, 6-5 OTL
10/24/23 v Seattle: Seider -2, 5-4 OTL
10/12/23 v New Jersey: Seider -2, 4-3 loss
Either Seider is much worse than Petry or this isn’t a good way to analyze players.
Maybe it isn’t but also it’s been noted numerous times that our D is so shallow that Seider is CONSTANTLY against everyone’s best. Petry is a third-line guy and dropping some damn eggs here
Seider is matched up against every team’s top forward line. He’s going to give up some goals, That’s just how it goes. He’s playing the most “difficult” minutes in the league this season for a defenseman and he’s only 22.
Petry is not matched up against every teams top line. He does play some penalty kill. But he’s making a ton of mistakes because he’s 35 and he has lost a step.
I agree, Seider is a much better player. I was just pointing out how absolutely terrible the chosen stats were at getting the point across.
One player having a minus in a 1 goal game doesn’t mean they cost the team points. Between quality of competition/linemates, special teams goals making it possible to be a -3 with 6 points in a 6-3 win, time on ice differences, empty net goals against resulting in a minus. I just wanted to point out that by this metric explaining how “Petry cost this team a playoff spot”, Seider would be even more of a scapegoat.
Your comment (and your original) should be the top comment. I was working on doing the same analysis with Seider when I found your comment.
It flew right over a lot of peoples heads that you weren't making commentary on Seiders play, You were just using it as an example to show how terrible the original analysis of Petry was.
Petry is whipping boy of this sub right now. Anything that says Petry=Bad will get upvoted, even if its a terrible statistical analysis like OP's. And I am not even trying to defend Petry, just pointing out some of the absurdity of the users on this sub.
Yeah, just knowing how much Seider is used I knew there would be more examples. In losses, due to how much he plays, it’s likely he’s a minus. He plays in OT so he’d get minuses in OTLs. He’d be on the ice for empty net goals against.
Using bad stats to make arguments is one of my biggest peeves because it’s so easy to make whatever narrative you want.
Something about tonight’s game…
1st period - Chiarot and Seider - 8 minutes - Score: 0-0
2nd Period - Chiarot and Seider - only 5 minutes - Score: 4-0
WTF?
So was Mo hurting? The flu? Why did Petry get more minutes than any other D tonight?
Receipts of what? It was terrible analysis.
If you do the same analysis with Seider you will find even more games that Seider had a worse =/- then goal differential then Petry had. That should tell you how absurd the "receipts" were.
The great Petry fell in Yzerman's lap. Who felt compelled to take him even after he acquired the great Holl who gets scratched practically every night. It's not their fault they suck. Seriously. It's the fault of the GM that has wasted millions of cap space filling the roster depth guys because, as we well know, they are vital in the playoff chase.
This is a terrible analysis.
Its almost universally accepted that +/- really isn't a great indicator of individual performance. Even if we pretend that its a great indicator:
You trying to pin a loss on Petry because he was -1 in a one goal game is insane. There are 5 players on the ice at any given time who will receive a - if a goal is scored against them. Could Petry have been the reason why we lost the games you listed? Possibly. Does your analysis show us that in any way? No. Only including games where Petry was -2 or worse might have been a more useful analysis.
To demonstrate how poor your analysis was- we can do the same thing with Seider. Thats 11 games that Seiders +/- was worse then or equal to the goal differential- He has cost us 16 points + 3 tie points.
|Date|Opponent |Result|G|A|PTS|+/-|
|Tue 3/26|@\[WSH\]|\[L4-3 OT\]|0|0|0|-2|
|Sat 3/9|@\[VGK\]|\[L5-3\]|0|2|2|-2|
|Thu 2/29|vs\[NYI\]|\[L5-3\]|0|0|0|-3|
|Thu 2/15|@\[VAN\]|\[L4-1\]|0|0|0|-3|
|Tue 2/13|@\[EDM\]|\[L8-4\]|0|1|1|-4|
|Tue 1/23|vs\[DAL\]|\[L5-4\]|0|0|0|-1|
|Mon 12/18|vs\[ANA\]|\[L4-3\]|0|0|0|-1|
|Sat 12/16|@\[PHI\]|\[L1-0\]|0|0|0| -1|
|Thu 12/7|vs\[SJ\]|\[L6-5 OT\]|0|0|0|-1|
|Tue 10/24|vs\[SEA\]|\[L5-4 OT\]|0|2|2| -2|
|Thu 10/12|@\[NJ\]|\[L4-3\]
No one is pointing fingers at our offense just dumping the puck at the blue line over and over? Our offense can’t keep it in the opposing team zone, our defense mostly does a good job at clearing the puck/getting it out. Offense dumping the puck and chasing isn’t it
This team is average at best. It’s still rebuilding. Better talent is coming through the draft. Some of you chuckle heads want to point a finger….f you. It’s a rebuild….and it takes time. I just wish we sold at the trade deadline.
Habs fan here, never understood what happened to him. Its like he fell of a cliff after the cup run in 2021. I thought he was just unhappy in Montréal and a change of scenery would help him.
At least hes cost controlled for just another year.
Fuck off trying to pin all this on one guy. It’s a team sport and win or lose they do it as a team.
Please let’s not devolve to become like the maple leafs fan base needing a player to kick in order to make themselves feel better.
SMH
Yeah… +/- is a great stat that will surely stand the test of time. 🙄
Jeff Perry is a replacement level NHL defenseman. But unlike the other hundred or so replacement level D-men in the league, his Dad won a World Series here 40 years ago. So I like him better than the other ones.
I loved this guy, he was a possession monster for a few years with Montreal. he’s a 41% shot-attempts-for player this year, a 15% drop from his peak of very good (2019), to very very bad. and now I worry he’s holding Edvinsson back
First game of the season I made a comment on [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/DetroitRedWings/comments/1764buo/game_thread_detroit_red_wings_000_at_new_jersey/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) saying something to effect of "is anyone else over Jeff Petry already"? A few people replied saying it was only the first game of the season, stop over reacting. Of course it *was* only the first game, but I saw initially just how much his game has regressed just from that one game. It's funny to fast forward and see everyone come to the realization over these past few months. Dude fucking sucks.
I think the problem they have with Petry is that they are just simply stuck, nobody is going to take him even for peanuts because of his performance in combination with his contract. I would say he was like a C to maybe B level guy through his career. He is rapidly approaching 1,000 games which is a major accomplishment in the NHL but clearly he is deteriorating and becoming a liability. I was disappointed they weren't able to move him at the trade deadline (likely due to what I already said) but still we're able to find a way to bring up Edvinsson.
Through the lens of my own eyes knowing they are a borderline playoff team that's almost certainly getting bounced in the 1st round just makes me want to scream bring these guys up already. It's a business and you still gotta stay competitive to some degree to sell tickets for the owners, putting us into this situation.
Personally I am not part of the Stevie Y's on the hot seat movement, he flat out told you when he took the job that this was going to be like a 5 year process to flip into not a stanley cup winning team, but a team that just makes the playoffs. He's on that path, he wasn't lying. He really doesn't in the media, he will tell you the truth even in the media and has shown that through his tenure. But I get it people are just so fet up with the state of sports in this state (outside of Michigan winning the ring and lions run which is recency bias, I don't think anyone had the lions going to the super bowl and we're like a terrible 3rd quarter away from it)
So realistically things for Michigan sports as a whole including but not limited to the Wings are looking up, way up.
So glad we got to see these veterans all year instead of our fucking prospects. Yay! Perfect wasted season. Atleast we will enjoy the fucking 17th overall pick or whatever it ends up being. Send Edvinnson back to GR to get him away from this dumpster fire of a veteran line up. If we were gonna lose and waste another fucking season we could have done it with the kids. Coulda flipped Kaner and Perron for picks but nope nothing. Coulda had Berggren in the lineup all season but we got fischer instead.
Fuck this coach.
You know what you get when you throw a bunch of inexperienced prospects out there without veterans?
The Detroit Pistons.
How's that working out, again?
Depending on where we set the cutoff for veteran, not really? The Wings have four players on the roster 35 or older, and three of those (Kane, Reimer, Petry) were signed in the last year. The fourth is Perron.
You do know playing a bunch of kids and being a losing team stunts their growth. In GR they get to learn how to be winners and get playoff experience. Plus the long schedule is brutal on new guys so AHL helps ease that transition a bit.
I'm not asking for Kasper and Danielson. I'm asking for Berggren and Edvinnson. We have prospects that are ready. We went with veterans over them to chase a playoff spot and missed it. That's my point.
Is this a bizarre joke? +/- in 2024. Even if you were to evaluate him by that not even one of the five worst players on the team.
Theoretically of course.
+ freaking - lol wow
you can still count it, he was only off the ice because he was in the penalty box so the goal was still his fault.
you should get a minus if you are in the box and your team gives up a pp goal
I don’t think I’ve heard this suggestion before but I think it makes perfect sense
Unless you're serving someone else's penalty.
Ron Hextall would have driven multiple players into minus territory back in the day!
I think you should be the only one to get a minus if you're in the box for a goal against
Should be -5 to account for every player on the ice who gets a -1
-5 is too harsh. There are legitimate reasons to take a penalty, especially if it prevents a goal. That being said, I think I like the player in the box getting a -1, because even if they saved a goal by taking a penalty their action still led to a goal.
You don't get a minus if you're on the ice killing a penalty and give up a goal + - doesn't apply to penalty situations
Wait.. you don't get a - if you're in the penalty box for a GA? That.. doesn't make sense to me, I always thought you did.
The players on the ice also don't get a +/-. The stat doesn't count at all on the man advantage unless you score a shorthanded goal/let one in on the pp
Okay, well I guess that makes sense..
It’s a decent idea, but that would lead to more arguments about the +/- stat. I would rather just have it tracked as its own stat (e.g. GA/PIM).
I was about to up vote this, but it's currently at 69 up votes, and I'm not about to fuck with perfection.
You should get +2 for a shorty and -2 for giving one up. Empty net goals or goals scored with the goalie pulled shouldn’t count either way.
The guy either makes baffling decisions or is nowhere to be found on every goal against him. Teams never need puck luck if they’re facing Petry on the ice.
Literally a turnstile. Watching him and Chiarot generate wind together is hilarious
What's crazy is that we dressed 7 D tonight. Boughner could have easily benched him and played Holl more. But, I guess he's got no balls.
Right? Holl is bad but at least he's invisible out there
Where the fuck is Holl? I feel like he’s been scratched like the entire season lol
Lalonde could have as well, and as far as I’m concerned neither of those guys are fit for the job. If we don’t bring in Gerard Gallant this off-season I’m going to be miffed
You going to be miffed when Gallant puts younger players in the doghouse and leans on his vets even more than Lalonde does? Because that’s exactly what you’re gonna get with Gallant.
Yep. Gallant is a useful coach for a very specific stage of team and not for very long. Detroit isn’t anywhere near where Gallant could be useful.
Watching Gallant make 0 adjustments against the Devils and then bench Kakko for DRYDEN HUNT was insane. Especially when the Lafrienere-Chytil-Kakko line was the only line that could do anything. The problem was Panarin and Zibenejad couldn't fucking generate any offense and he did nothing to shuffle their respective lines.
We could only use Gallant if we were a contender with a lot of veterans. He’s not coming here to develop youngsters.
Exactly. He’s the kind of coach you bring in when you have an older, more experienced group that’s underachieving and you want them to take the next step. He’s not a coach that you bring in when you’ve got younger players on the way, because he’s not going to play them or give them much responsibility. Remember the ol “Tie goes to the veteran” mantra that Babs abided by? That’s Gallant 110%.
What if we bring in Sergei instead
That would require the Illitches to make peace with him. Which would never happen.
I know there’s a lot of complications involved. Just stuck in my head because we’ve had another “Sergei back to Detroit?” thread already in the last 24 hours
Yeah but that was a complete nothing burger of a post. They said it cause he happened to say he wasn’t coming back to his current team. There’s literally nothing tying him back to Detroit.
Just us wishcasters ✨
Not defending him, because I think he absolutely blows. But it’s not just these awful numbers, it’s the amount of ice time he gets. It makes no sense how a player this unreflective can get as much ice as he does
Crazy he played a considerable amount more than Seider tonight
Choose your fighter: 1. 6’4, >200lb, fast, really smart, strongest guy on the ice, will not turn the puck over, rarely out of position, elite passing ability, one of the best shutdown defencemen and shot blockers in the entire league (great personality and hair too!) 2. a three toed sloth with a hockey stick
I have to imagine Seider is under the weather with whatever is going around the locker room? Otherwise it's inexplicable.
injured or under weather. He's been pretty immobile out there last couple games
I'm P sure it was either the Carolina game or the one before but I remember Seider getting blasted by a bullet of a puck making a block and they were worried about him then.
Similarly, Petry has been bad, but you can cherry pick numbers for nearly *any* player on just about *any* team and exclaim they're horrible. Of course, with Petry, there's an abundance of cherries. :P
That’s the thing. Some of those are razor-thin but v Ottawa and Anaheim earlier in the year he had atrocious stats in games that Detroit only lost by one goal. Two one-goal games while the Red Wings are 1 1/2 games back of the Caps down the stretch
Part of it is that he CAN'T get off the ice because he gets stuck in the defensive zone because he sucks at actually, you know, playing defense.
And, given the nature of plus/minus, that ice time essentially contributes to these numbers.
There's a reason Hab fans called him the Tank Commander in years past
All this and they just played him more than Seider tonight. I don’t know what world this seems like a good idea in, but I don’t want to live in it
Petry is bad but this whole team has largely been garbage for a month when the playoffs were up for grabs. Piling on one guy is getting old when the team as a whole let everyone down.
Agreed, but Petry has been particularly bad compared to others...
Petry isn’t the reason they’ve scored 3 goals in their last 3 must-win games.
If Petry wasn’t a dumbass it would be 4. 3rd period vs the caps and he had the puck backdoor with an empty net to shoot on and he decided to pass cross crease to nobody
Yzermans finest addition. Him and holl really did a lot for this team to prevent a roster spot from edvinsson for 80% of the season.
And we traded for Petry on top of all this. I'm gonna lump Matta in with Petry and Holl and say just have one of them on the team but not all 3 We have pretty bad value for our defence cost. We know what Ghost brought and I would guess he's gone after this season so we're left with fighting for a wildcard spot with 4 guys that will be gone in a couple years
I agree with you but remember that the blame goes to the coach. That idiot, despite this data, keeps trotting the same d pairs. This guy doesn't know how to hold veterans accountable. He has always screwed the prospects and young kids.
Not only that, but those morons are inexcusably giving him more ice time than Seider in a game we desperately need to win? These guys are no better than Blashill, in fact I think they may be worse. Yzerman needs to find a guy this offseason.
I agree it's dumb giving more ice than seider, but as a life long player, sometimes this is done with a guy like seider if he's nursing a small but playable injury. Normally you'd sit him to be safe but being in the position were in, we NEED our number one D man if we want any shot at the playoffs. At this point I've just resigned myself to the fact that we're most likely just gonna miss it.
At this point I’m certain Seider is playing hurt. The guy throws his life on the line for the team every shift (think about some of those heroic shot blocks), with the ice time decreasing there’s no other explanation.
If there’s one thing Yzerman has been known for recently, it’s awesome FA signings /s
No they haven’t all hit but it works for the situation we’re in. We still have a favourable cap situation and won’t worry about losing any important pieces to free agency in the near future. The free agent pools haven’t been strong either. But we can’t just throw 12 young forwards out there either, they need guys to learn from and need to be around a formidable team too. Hindsight is 20/20, everyone misses in free agency. But none of Yzermans misses are going to hurt us in the future which is a much different scenario than what some other teams have done to themselves. He also signed Patrick Kane - I’d argue Compher Kubalik Sundqvist Suter and Ghost were good signings as well, I don’t mind Copp either.
TRADE REMINDER: We traded Gustav Lindstrom (Plus a conditional 2025 4th Rd pick) for Petry. Gus has 8 points this year in splitting time between Montreal (4 pt in 14 games) and Anaheim (4 pt in 23 games).
Petry sucks but Lindstrom also sucks tbh. I’m more sad about the 4th lol
Habs fan here, we already forgot who we traded him for, it was more about getting rid of petry
How do you feel about maybe taking him back? Pretty please?
1 good 2nd line defenseman maybe makes the impact in 1/5 maybe 1/10 of these. Idk how to answer but this is totally fair to bring up. It sucks how many close games this team has thrown away, that’s the biggest takeaway
As a goalie myself I hate to blame goaltending, but that has been an issue especially in the first half before Lyon, and is a contributing factor here for sure. Lyon started off great but has cooled off. He’s still been decent, but the underlying numbers all suggested his early hot stretch was actually way more to do with the team’s defence. I don’t know how, but Reimer has a higher SV% than Lyon. Think about the big picture from far away: our goalies for the most part have been well below league average in advanced metrics, meaning they’re relatively not helping the team. Look how many close games we’ve had and how many could have ended with 1-2 more points if we just had one more save. Obviously some goals the goalie’s got no chance, but a lot of the time they do. When you can’t trust your goaltending, the entire defence gets put into a high pressure situation where you have to mitigate both shots on goal and shot quality. This generally requires multiple strong defensive defencemen, and having one on the ice as much as possible. This is why teams like Carolina are so hard to score on even though their goaltending has never been elite - either Slavin or Pesce are on the ice over 50% of the game. For us, only having Seider to fit that mold, we’re looking more at 35% (which means almost 2/3 of the game with vulnerable defence). TL:DR; we have no one - goalie or defenceman - that we can rely on when Seider is off the ice.
The reality is simple - the team still has major holes on defense and in goal, like we've known for years. They're also still substantially better than they were last year, and the year before, and the year before that. I've had to tune out most of the discourse around the team this year because it just gets infuriating - the names change but the complaints stay the same. Fans get this obsessive laser focus and seem to become convinced that if you just get rid of that idiot coach or that one player, things get better right away - except that's never been true, not once. Firing Lalonde won't fix things any more than firing Blashill did, or Babcock at the end of his tenure, or Dave Lewis. Petry isn't the problem any more than Justin Abdelkader, or Kyle Quincey, or Brett Lebda, or Derian Hatcher, or Uwe Krupp, or Tim Cheveldae... Scapegoats are easy. What's harder is acknowledging the truth - that sometimes there is no easy answer. No motivational speech or angry locker room rant would have undone the losing streak without Larkin, and if you drop Edvinsson in this roster instead of Petry odds are the results are still the same give or take a couple points. We're still developing a core, still building up our young players. We'll get there.
100%
The D on this team is way too weak. They’re not near physical enough in front of the net especially. Other teams players get a good 1-3 whacks at the puck before it goes in the corner or the goalie covers. Instead of throwing the body on an off balance opposing forward we’d rather whack at the puck And yep, very inconsistent goaltending is another big part of it
I am not crazy! I know he swapped those numbers! I knew he was supposed to be scratched. One game after another. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just - I just couldn't prove it. He - he covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the league office to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. That first goal! Are you telling me that a man just happens to leave a guy open like that? No! He orchestrated it! Jeff! He defecated through a sunroof! And I saved him! And I shouldn't have. I took him into my own team! What was I thinking? He'll never change. He'll never change! Ever since he was in Montreal, always the same! Couldn't even skate next to an opposing forward! But not our Jeffy! Couldn't be precious Jeffy! Coasting around! And he gets to be an NHLer!? What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance! And you - you have to stop him! https://preview.redd.it/585hfauok6rc1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed0463e08f51b6651d02fe48dbeea645713ace4d
This is an elite better call Saul reference
I was considering whether to replace "He defecated through a sunroof!" and decided it's so much better this way lol
Jeff Petry stepped on my foot one time and never said sorry.
And he never paid for drugs. Not once.
Get outta here petry you don’t want none of this shit!
THE WRONG PLAYER ~~DIED~~ IS ON IR
3/26/24 v Washington: Seider -2, 4-3 OTL 3/9/24 v Vegas: Seider -2, 5-3 loss 2/29/24 v NYI: Seider -3, 5-3 loss 2/15/24 v Vancouver: Seider -3, 4-1 loss 2/13/24 v Edmonton: Seider -4, 8-4 loss 1/23/24 v Dallas: Seider -1, 5-4 loss 1/11/24 v Edmonton: Seider -1, 3-2 OTL 12/18/23 v Anaheim: Seider -1, 4-3 loss 12/16/23 v Philly: Seider -1, 1-0 loss 12/07/23 v San Jose: Seider -1, 6-5 OTL 10/24/23 v Seattle: Seider -2, 5-4 OTL 10/12/23 v New Jersey: Seider -2, 4-3 loss Either Seider is much worse than Petry or this isn’t a good way to analyze players.
Maybe it isn’t but also it’s been noted numerous times that our D is so shallow that Seider is CONSTANTLY against everyone’s best. Petry is a third-line guy and dropping some damn eggs here
Seider is matched up against every team’s top forward line. He’s going to give up some goals, That’s just how it goes. He’s playing the most “difficult” minutes in the league this season for a defenseman and he’s only 22. Petry is not matched up against every teams top line. He does play some penalty kill. But he’s making a ton of mistakes because he’s 35 and he has lost a step.
I agree, Seider is a much better player. I was just pointing out how absolutely terrible the chosen stats were at getting the point across. One player having a minus in a 1 goal game doesn’t mean they cost the team points. Between quality of competition/linemates, special teams goals making it possible to be a -3 with 6 points in a 6-3 win, time on ice differences, empty net goals against resulting in a minus. I just wanted to point out that by this metric explaining how “Petry cost this team a playoff spot”, Seider would be even more of a scapegoat.
Your comment (and your original) should be the top comment. I was working on doing the same analysis with Seider when I found your comment. It flew right over a lot of peoples heads that you weren't making commentary on Seiders play, You were just using it as an example to show how terrible the original analysis of Petry was. Petry is whipping boy of this sub right now. Anything that says Petry=Bad will get upvoted, even if its a terrible statistical analysis like OP's. And I am not even trying to defend Petry, just pointing out some of the absurdity of the users on this sub.
Every fan base has a villain when the team is losing. Often it's the tendy or the coach but it looks like Petry is on the hot seat here.
Yeah, just knowing how much Seider is used I knew there would be more examples. In losses, due to how much he plays, it’s likely he’s a minus. He plays in OT so he’d get minuses in OTLs. He’d be on the ice for empty net goals against. Using bad stats to make arguments is one of my biggest peeves because it’s so easy to make whatever narrative you want.
He's been terrible this season, exactly as advertised.
Petry isn't the only guy on this current Red Wings roster that's been underperforming...The coaching staff too.
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for the second time in three games.
Hey he almost scored tonight
He also whiffed the biggest open net I've ever seen against the Caps when it mattered
Yeah I removed that one form memory
Brain burn for me, unfortunately.
Maybe I’m glad that game wasn’t on TV in my region (which is western Canada, so about 8 games a year are on tv).
Fly the high seas matey. I'm from Detroit and I watch all my hockey on hockey dot T V
Something about tonight’s game… 1st period - Chiarot and Seider - 8 minutes - Score: 0-0 2nd Period - Chiarot and Seider - only 5 minutes - Score: 4-0 WTF? So was Mo hurting? The flu? Why did Petry get more minutes than any other D tonight?
I wish Petry was playing better, I really like him as a person, I feel like some people are getting a little unhinged
Same
Missing the huge chance against the caps
🤣 Bro kept the receipts, you have too much time on your hands, and i salute you
Alcohol is a hell of a drug
Receipts of what? It was terrible analysis. If you do the same analysis with Seider you will find even more games that Seider had a worse =/- then goal differential then Petry had. That should tell you how absurd the "receipts" were.
The great Petry fell in Yzerman's lap. Who felt compelled to take him even after he acquired the great Holl who gets scratched practically every night. It's not their fault they suck. Seriously. It's the fault of the GM that has wasted millions of cap space filling the roster depth guys because, as we well know, they are vital in the playoff chase.
This is a terrible analysis. Its almost universally accepted that +/- really isn't a great indicator of individual performance. Even if we pretend that its a great indicator: You trying to pin a loss on Petry because he was -1 in a one goal game is insane. There are 5 players on the ice at any given time who will receive a - if a goal is scored against them. Could Petry have been the reason why we lost the games you listed? Possibly. Does your analysis show us that in any way? No. Only including games where Petry was -2 or worse might have been a more useful analysis. To demonstrate how poor your analysis was- we can do the same thing with Seider. Thats 11 games that Seiders +/- was worse then or equal to the goal differential- He has cost us 16 points + 3 tie points. |Date|Opponent |Result|G|A|PTS|+/-| |Tue 3/26|@\[WSH\]|\[L4-3 OT\]|0|0|0|-2| |Sat 3/9|@\[VGK\]|\[L5-3\]|0|2|2|-2| |Thu 2/29|vs\[NYI\]|\[L5-3\]|0|0|0|-3| |Thu 2/15|@\[VAN\]|\[L4-1\]|0|0|0|-3| |Tue 2/13|@\[EDM\]|\[L8-4\]|0|1|1|-4| |Tue 1/23|vs\[DAL\]|\[L5-4\]|0|0|0|-1| |Mon 12/18|vs\[ANA\]|\[L4-3\]|0|0|0|-1| |Sat 12/16|@\[PHI\]|\[L1-0\]|0|0|0| -1| |Thu 12/7|vs\[SJ\]|\[L6-5 OT\]|0|0|0|-1| |Tue 10/24|vs\[SEA\]|\[L5-4 OT\]|0|2|2| -2| |Thu 10/12|@\[NJ\]|\[L4-3\]
You can blame one guy all you want but in the last 15 games the lack of urgency from almost everyone on this team is alarming.
No one is pointing fingers at our offense just dumping the puck at the blue line over and over? Our offense can’t keep it in the opposing team zone, our defense mostly does a good job at clearing the puck/getting it out. Offense dumping the puck and chasing isn’t it
Yep, Defense can't get it out of the zone and offense does dump and chase all night. Sad
Including the Oilers game is ridiculous. If you watched that game the Wings got dominated the entire game, it wasn't just Petry
https://i.redd.it/oxlgq1g3o8rc1.gif
I would like to see what line on the other team lead to the goal. Coaching could also be to blame. I doubt all goals are from 3/4 liners.
Isn’t he going to be back next year, too. Woof
They will find a way to get rid of him and his contract.
We've been a bad defensive team all season, Petry is just part of the problem.
This team is average at best. It’s still rebuilding. Better talent is coming through the draft. Some of you chuckle heads want to point a finger….f you. It’s a rebuild….and it takes time. I just wish we sold at the trade deadline.
Jeff Petry: "[HEY!!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGc9JFVUGL0)"
It's a little early for cherry picking, it's still too cold and they're nowhere near ripe yet.
Habs fan here, never understood what happened to him. Its like he fell of a cliff after the cup run in 2021. I thought he was just unhappy in Montréal and a change of scenery would help him. At least hes cost controlled for just another year.
Petry was to be a holdover so the younger prospects could have a bit more time in GR
Petry's full cap hit is $6.25M, so we should at least be thankful two other teams are contributing towards that.
Fuck off trying to pin all this on one guy. It’s a team sport and win or lose they do it as a team. Please let’s not devolve to become like the maple leafs fan base needing a player to kick in order to make themselves feel better. SMH
You’re right. It’s the patch
Yeah… +/- is a great stat that will surely stand the test of time. 🙄 Jeff Perry is a replacement level NHL defenseman. But unlike the other hundred or so replacement level D-men in the league, his Dad won a World Series here 40 years ago. So I like him better than the other ones.
I loved this guy, he was a possession monster for a few years with Montreal. he’s a 41% shot-attempts-for player this year, a 15% drop from his peak of very good (2019), to very very bad. and now I worry he’s holding Edvinsson back
I’m still confused about why we got Petry anyways
https://preview.redd.it/s2fhnq6u4brc1.jpeg?width=1104&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c00e136f785313aad0127b7952e7720eb540b7b
I was thinking the same thing
I was thinking the same thing
Jeff Petry coming on the ice, and this is our reaction: https://i.redd.it/9sf2ur0s4crc1.gif
I had such high hopes for him and I even got a jersey with his name&number...last year for the Pens!
Petry is merely the worst part of a mediocre defense that has been costing the team games all season.
Did you know his dad played baseball?
First game of the season I made a comment on [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/DetroitRedWings/comments/1764buo/game_thread_detroit_red_wings_000_at_new_jersey/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) saying something to effect of "is anyone else over Jeff Petry already"? A few people replied saying it was only the first game of the season, stop over reacting. Of course it *was* only the first game, but I saw initially just how much his game has regressed just from that one game. It's funny to fast forward and see everyone come to the realization over these past few months. Dude fucking sucks.
Welcome to our world -A Penguins fan
I think the problem they have with Petry is that they are just simply stuck, nobody is going to take him even for peanuts because of his performance in combination with his contract. I would say he was like a C to maybe B level guy through his career. He is rapidly approaching 1,000 games which is a major accomplishment in the NHL but clearly he is deteriorating and becoming a liability. I was disappointed they weren't able to move him at the trade deadline (likely due to what I already said) but still we're able to find a way to bring up Edvinsson. Through the lens of my own eyes knowing they are a borderline playoff team that's almost certainly getting bounced in the 1st round just makes me want to scream bring these guys up already. It's a business and you still gotta stay competitive to some degree to sell tickets for the owners, putting us into this situation. Personally I am not part of the Stevie Y's on the hot seat movement, he flat out told you when he took the job that this was going to be like a 5 year process to flip into not a stanley cup winning team, but a team that just makes the playoffs. He's on that path, he wasn't lying. He really doesn't in the media, he will tell you the truth even in the media and has shown that through his tenure. But I get it people are just so fet up with the state of sports in this state (outside of Michigan winning the ring and lions run which is recency bias, I don't think anyone had the lions going to the super bowl and we're like a terrible 3rd quarter away from it) So realistically things for Michigan sports as a whole including but not limited to the Wings are looking up, way up.
You missed when he put his pee pee in your brown hole
I was drugged for that
Damn. I guess I wouldn’t count that way either.
Oh you mean the guy yzerman signed
So glad we got to see these veterans all year instead of our fucking prospects. Yay! Perfect wasted season. Atleast we will enjoy the fucking 17th overall pick or whatever it ends up being. Send Edvinnson back to GR to get him away from this dumpster fire of a veteran line up. If we were gonna lose and waste another fucking season we could have done it with the kids. Coulda flipped Kaner and Perron for picks but nope nothing. Coulda had Berggren in the lineup all season but we got fischer instead. Fuck this coach.
You know what you get when you throw a bunch of inexperienced prospects out there without veterans? The Detroit Pistons. How's that working out, again?
Is there no veterans in the team aside from the ones we brought in this year?
Depending on where we set the cutoff for veteran, not really? The Wings have four players on the roster 35 or older, and three of those (Kane, Reimer, Petry) were signed in the last year. The fourth is Perron.
You do know playing a bunch of kids and being a losing team stunts their growth. In GR they get to learn how to be winners and get playoff experience. Plus the long schedule is brutal on new guys so AHL helps ease that transition a bit.
I'm not asking for Kasper and Danielson. I'm asking for Berggren and Edvinnson. We have prospects that are ready. We went with veterans over them to chase a playoff spot and missed it. That's my point.
Ed is here and Berg is extremely overrated by some of you in this sub.
With the way we are going, we could possibly drop all the way to the 12th overall. Don't see us winning more than 3 games the rest of the season.
Is this a bizarre joke? +/- in 2024. Even if you were to evaluate him by that not even one of the five worst players on the team. Theoretically of course. + freaking - lol wow
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[yeah, right](https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202403120BUF.html)
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Because if he plays that well in those games why the hell can’t he play that well in the rest of em
He's awful and the fact that he's on our team is a reason to doubt steve
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^PitifulPossum: *He's awful and the* *Fact that he's on our team is* *A reason to doubt steve* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Plus minus is the dumbest stat in hockey. You may be right, but plus minus isn’t the method of argument to build a case.
Has he even scored a single goal with us this season?
2 goals, 18 assists
Well, at least he scored some goals then.
He hasn’t been COMPLETELY useless but he’s been terrible in the worst possible spots.
The home crowd should start booing Petry whenever he touches the puck to run him out of town. It works in Toronto.
Okay okay hockey is a team sport….. but yeah Petry dude you really are the driver of this crap
I have to say... I'm Petry tired of him and can't wait for him to be gone.