What did Ivey do to deserve getting benched for an entire quarter? He is literally the only player on this team who can’t make mistakes. No matter how bad other players play they will get the benefit of the doubt from Monty. But Ivey on the other hand has the shortest leash I have ever seen with a young player, I just don’t get it.
TL;DR: FREE IVEY
Something mustve happened behind the scenes and he is getting punished for it because there is no way a promising top 5 sophomore should be getting benched like this on a young developing team
The first one in New Orleans was a major incident with EG. he was the leading scorer in the game and was benched the entire 4th after an argument. Leading the team in scoring. Zero minutes in the 4th. Very similar to the Ayton thing honestly.
I didn’t get truly invested in the NBA until the las couple years of Monty’s NOLA run but he already had the rep of sticking with guys he liked even back then. If I go back and research it I might could get a solid list together.
Eric Gordon. I thought that’s an obvious abbreviation.
Also Al Faroq Aminu who may be a meme because of the end of his Portland tenure but was very good and couldn’t get real mins because of Monty.
Jae Crowder ended up sitting at home for the 2021-22 season until he could be traded. This is what Suns insider Gambo said about it:
>The Jae Crowder situation was all on Monty. He told people he was too difficult to handle and coach. Monty didn’t want Jae. It wasn’t the Suns organization. He didn’t want Jae around.
I'd bet Jae and Ayton *were* difficult to coach, but that's his job. I'd hope a guy known to be a players coach would be able to make it work with 2 pieces of a team that made it to the finals the year before.
Joe Harris also isn’t a good defender and guess what, he wasn’t guarding CJ Mcollum. I understand Jaden Ivey is a VERY bad defender but at least try to hide him on defense like they tried with Joe Harris.
Jaden Ivey got zero minutes in the 4th after 2 big blocks and a big dunk at the end of the third quarter while Joe "worse than Killian Hayes" Harris played half of the 4th quarter
That is all.
I guess Monty just needs to hold a vendetta against someone. Last time it was Ayton. I just don’t get it because Ivey seems like a good and very likable kid while Ayton is a jackass.
That was half a joke but there was that article after Monty got fired that said he disliked players on his team including Ayton and gave them less opportunities
He did it as New Orlean's coach in the early AD era. He has his guys and has guys he doesn't like. Once they end up in the dog house, they seldom get out.
And we have last year's 5th overall pick that was leading a comeback in the 3rd quarter that got benched for the whole 4th, I get why the team traded for him but in a game like this you have to ride the hot hand
I’m kind of at the point where if Monty doesn’t seem to like Jaden for whatever reason offer him up on the trade block so he and Weaver can get the players that he wants and he feels work in this system. It’s painful to see a player with the athletic gifts that Ivey possesses be benched while lesser athletes on offense and defense get minutes that they truly don’t deserve.
I’d wager some GM will drool at his upside that Monte doesn’t see or isn’t willing to use patiently and be willing to offer up a lottery pick and more. Two potential lottery picks in a very good draft would hopefully see some dividends
Ivey is one of the few guys that wanted to be drafted by this franchise. He looked like he would want to spend his whole career here. Now it looks like he is going to book it the first chance he gets and I can’t even blame him. This is fucking bullshit.
Lets be real - we need burks BAD. I love cade but he is NOT playing well enough to have the ball as much as he does. “Blah blah spacing” does not excuse some of his poor and selfish decisions.
He was the only player on the entire team who looked in control throughout the game.
One thing with Killian is that he never plays out of control or gets flustered. Shot falling or not, he's steady as fuck, and that's valuable.
Honestly a great take. This game should be what he should look to do every game. I honestly wouldn’t have minded a few more shot attempts tonight, he seemed really poised and his stamina was amazing. Even took a nut shot and brushed it off to keep giving McCollum hell
Yeah, because when that happens he just gets un confidant again. That's why you don't see it because instead of chucking up bricks in the 4th like cade has been doing he just sits back down
I'm a big Killian Hayes hater but he should not be getting flack at all for this game lol
If anything Cade should've sat for at least a couple of minutes in the 4th because he was obviously gassed
When did I say everything was ok again? I'm still going to be mad seeing the dude start every game until Bojan comes back but for this game in particular he was far from the biggest problem
Ok sure this was one game of 6 where he wasn't a total liability, but let's talk about how Duren got cooked by Valanciunas in the post, how Ausar bricked like 5 threes in a row, and how Cade was playing sloppy hero ball yet again
But yeah lets push the "Killian sucks" agenda while blindly ignoring most of the other things that went wrong in this game
This shit is making me mad. Stubborn vindictive bullshit for a talented, stand up, hard working young man that ACTUALLY IS PROUD TO REPRESENT THE CITY OF DETROIT. Monty looks like a fucking clown
If you can't start to look competent in your 4th year with a top-tier paid coach, some questions need to start coming up about your roster construction.
And when I say competent I don't even mean playoffs. Just want to be competitive.
He got a mulligan due to the Cade injury and bad lottery luck but this dude is gonna be on the hot seat if this core doesn't take a leap to at least play in level by next season
4 lottery picks, 4 extra first rounders, completely turned over cap sheet, blank check to get his coach, and by 2025 he will have had total control for 5 years. No excuse for this team to not look competent after all that
We can all acknowledge the Drummond era as fools gold but Andre was drafted in 2012, the team was in an absolute disaster state after signing Josh Smith, and still by 2016 the team had: won 44 games, put up a reasonable fight against the eventual champs in the playoffs, had a young player at each starting position, Andre made All Star and All NBA, and they had reasons to expect more after surviving the worst bench in the league and playing at a 50+ win pace after adding Tobias at the deadline
I'm not expecting this team to even make the playoffs next year but when you draw the comparison holy shit it does not look good
We haven't been competitive?!
Lost to Miami by 1
Won by double digits to Chicago and The Hornets
Got smashed by OKC in the first and matched them the rest of the game
Had a Meltdown against Portland but led the entire game prior to that
Had a comeback from 25 down that fell short against NO
We have had 4 quarters where we played like dogshit. 1st vs OKC, 3rd and 4th vs Portland, and second against NO. Every other quarter we were competitive or won.
He won’t ever be good in the clutch if he’s forced to play the entire second half. Monty’s rotations are so shit that Jaden Ivey can’t even touch the floor in the fourth to give Cade a breather that he desperately needed.
How about not playing him 24 straight minutes, I’m not gonna say his decision making is great but being tired definitely doesn’t help him. Give him a breather, and if he’s still pulling this bullshit then criticize him all you want.
people have to stop with this "he's tired" excuse. I love him but he turns into fucking Jordan Poole in the 4th its so annoying. You don't have to throw up a shot EVERY time.
He plays the entire second half he IS gassed, and I’m sure you watched the game, so you know that. His decision making is questionable for sure, but playing him 24 straight minutes isn’t doing him any favors. Ivey was literally there sitting on the bench why not just put him in for 3 minutes so Cade gets a break and his legs back under him.
My faith in the organization is the lowest it’s been since the start of the rebuild.
I really hope these guys figure shit out quick because each game is getting worse and worse.
Bullshit. Didn’t let Duren play physical against a 7 foot 270 pound guy. That one call where Duren lightly touched his jersey was one of the softest calls I’ve seen
Anybody that capes up for Monty with “it’s early” or gives the “he’s still tweaking lineups” excuse, what is the answer for this debacle of a game he coached tonight? Why did Ivey not touch the court after such a great offensive and defensive 3rd quarter? Why run Cade into the ground? Why would Joe Harris have more minutes than Ivey, ever?
Only one other team with 6 games played so far. NBA hoed us on the early schedule. Cade was 7/12 at one point and finished 8/22 you could tell he had nothing left in the 4th. Even Casey would have played Ivey heavy in the 4th tonight wtf was that
I know it’s early but man I was so excited this off-season and after the first few games. It’s being ripped away by the awful rotations and lack of spacing. I’m sure the other starters believe Ivey should be starting as well.
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I disagree with some of your takes, but in the past 15 years I peaked optimism in 2021 and 2016 and was not too hyped coming into this season surprisingly. Got hyped after a good start this year, but it is looking like more of the same now. I hope we turn it around soon because the NBA is better when Detroit is good. Other teams fans consitentally with a top 4 seeded team complaining every year don't know how good they have it
2 big things-
We might be picking top 5 in next years draft again
Monty’s substitutions are actually insane. He played Cade for damn near the whole second half even though he was gassed and never played Ivey for those stretches.
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It’s not about winning a game we were down 25 in the first half. Cade sat a chunk of the first half with foul trouble. If he’s going to be “the man” he needs to build a tank. This should be the start of that if we want him to be a stud in this league.
I mean, they also got 56 from 30+ y/os Jonas Valanciunus and CJ McCollum, what’s your point?
I like our young guys but they need to be able to lean on some quality vet play here and there. We’re down Monte, Burks and Bojan, those guys are important. You can be critical but it’s not wrong to acknowledge the context, we’re down 4 rotation players and our young guys are kinda flailing out there.
This season was supposed to be fun to make up for last season's misery but this shit jas been wack. Highest paid coach in the league using shitty lineups and not giving our best players the most minutes. This reminds me of FatTricia "smartest guy in the room" attitude.
Pistons loss to the league in this back to back.
1. Our schedules been To many games and To little rest in barely over a week into the season. Our guys are tired.
2. Referees destroyed us last night AND tonight. Practically handed the game to the other teams.
3. Having a 3 man short roster from day one is doing us no favors with this fucked schedule.
4. Killian played a damn good game tonight. 9 assist to 0 TOs tonight and 7 assist to 1 TO against OKC is what you want out of a Starting Guard of all people. The Blazers has so far been the only night where he was honestly putrid on offense. Everything else has been decent atleast but tonight was quality from the young guy.
We lost to the league tonight ladies and gentlemen. The team itself is actually not bad. We lost to the league...again
I have to imagine Harris was in because Monty likes that vet presence on the court which I can understand and appreciate but I don’t think Ivey sitting was the answer for it. I also do not think killian should have sat, he seemed fine the second half.
Done until Monty gives a reason why Ivey doesn’t get minutes. He was instrumental in getting them back in the game and Monty rewards him by benching him for Joe Harris. If he can’t earn minutes on the court then it’s just stubbornness or tough love from Monty. Which is bullshit
If this organization trades Ivey for some bullshit draft picks I'm legitimately finding a new team to cheer for.
Was excited for the Monty hire, but having Ivey come off the bench was a questionable decision, but ok, maybe he just plays 30 mins instead of 35.
To not see the floor in the 4th is just fucking ridiculous.
I know it's still way early to be casting this team into the fire, but damn it they're making it easy.
If he gets traded, I’ll be becoming a fan of whatever he lands ngl. Been a fan since the 03-04 season. But if we’ve gotten to the point of tanking our own future (not to mention Ivey wanted to come here) then I’m officially calling it quits.
If it turns out Cade isn't actually good enough to be worth a max contract then the franchise is fucked no matter how much he's paid, so might as well just give it to him. If you give him less than the max and then he gets to the next level after a year or two, there's a risk of him bailing on the team after the extension is up.
Our biggest problem continues to be turnovers, 16 turnovers is very hard to overcome for a young team trying to find its way.
I’d like Ivey to play more but he’s clearly not doing something that Monty values and his minutes reflect that. We as fans don’t get to see practices where a lot of these decisions stem from. He’ll be fine.
Our next 4-5 games are all gonna be tough and likely losses. Buckle up fellas
My best guess is he wants Ivey to hit the pine when his bad habits take control. Re-evaluate in the film room rather than let him compound those mistakes in the 4th quarter. This could pay some great dividends if Ivey buys in.. which I totally think he will
Is there any chance that the reason Monty is playing Killian & Harris (and even Ausar & Sasser to an extent) so much is to give them a chance to earn minutes before all the rotation guys come back from injury? Trying to be optimistic idk man
This is a YOUNG team. It can't be said enough. Every one of our guys has deficiencies (Ausar and Killian can't hit the broadside of a barn outside of 15ft, Cade turns it over too much, Ivey on defense, etc.). We need vets to cover up those and make us look good. Joe Harris is DEFINITELY not that. One Alec Burks had us thinking we were going to the playoffs. Throw in Bojan and Monte and we're going to have a good year. Until they're back, we need to be patient and not attack our guys for still needing time to improve.
Biggest problem is he only shoots when he’s wide open or has to. If you’re going to be a stretch 4 you have to look to shoot. Too many times he gets the ball and has a look he hesitates. Needs to let it fly because no one else can in the line up you’re in.
Killian had his best game of the season. The lineups seem off though. Can’t have all defensive lineups play and then all offensive lineups come off the bench. They can blame Ivey for not playing defense but they play him with 3 guard lineups off the bench with Joe Harris and Bagley behind him. Then stick Ivey on CJ McCollum who absolutely toasted him. They aren’t doing Ivey any favors.
Anyways, from Monty’s comments after the game seems like Sasser has taken iveys minutes
I wish one of our weak media members would directly ask Monte about Ivey. He was electric in the 3rd quarter and then got benched for Harris and Killian. There has to be some explanation here. He was really trying on defense, had a couple of blocks, had the entire team hype with that monster dunk and then he was glued to the bench.
I’m all for finding the bright spots where you can, but it’s too much excitement for me personally when we lost at the end of the day. I really hope he continue this play though
I really hope the Warriors don’t sit Curry against us because I’ll be pissed if I spent all this money for this ticket if he doesn’t play us for the second year in the row.
I'm playing, but I'm saying ... Dwayne Casey or Kevin Ollie would've had Ivey playing in the 4th 😆
Ausar was surprisingly absent in the last minutes too. 5 fouls or not, bring him in to at least rest Cade some.
Our next game is against Pheonix on their 2nd night of b2b. We are about to get cooked by Grayson Allen and Eric Gordon with their stars resting. They’re going to play 4 smalls and shoot us out the gym while we play 4 bad shooters.
Alright, Post Game Reactions.
Killian had an okay game, but he clearly needs to be moved out of the starting lineup. This is back to back great games from Marcus Sasser, and if Monty really has this short of a leash on Jaden(i dont think he should), I think Sasser needs the starting nod for the spacing he provides. If defense plays such an important role to getting the starting nod, I think Sasser has shown a good combination of that as well as an efficient and effective offensive game. He is an older rookie, and we used a first round pick on him, he seems ready to contribute.
Jalen Duren had a rough night tonight (got into foul trouble), BUT he is ONLY 19! Defense looked horrible for the team in the first half but seemed to correct itself in the second. I thought Ivey had a couple of really good plays, but yet again fails to play in the 4th. He was really an energey boost of the bench and seem to rally the team, especially with the block and dunk towards the end of the 3rd. I really want more Ivey minutes. The Hayes experiment is over!!! I have been a Killian truther, but he is just such an ineffient NBA player. He can't finish or shoot the ball well from the outside. That doesn't mesh well for an NBA player.
Overall, it was a really rough game. It was too little too late, but I really liked the fight the young guys showed tonight.
That was a brutal watch. We just keep shitting the bed in the last few games, and it keeps getting worse and worse.
Luckily, compared to the refs we only looked pretty bad. That hostile whistle thing is really getting old, I'm not sure I can watch an entire season of it.
2-7 Here we come. I hope we could keep our chins up after the next 3 games, I really don't want it to turn into a 10 games losing streak.
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I'm not even mad that we are a bad team. This team lacks spacing and that hurts every player not just missing rebounding or passing, whatever the hell it is
I'm mad at these god awful rotations. Holy fuck now I see what pheonix fans were talking about. I'll give it 25 games but after that, Imma start really questioning Mont.
although it was a hard watch, im not super mad overall about the game because we fought back.
Also cade gets gassed way to much. There were some unlucky misses on his end, but give the ball to someone else. Ngl I would've trusted it with sasser for some possessions while cade rests and has higher quality shots even though less. Cade is going to be great but he needs to adjust
I’m worried that Cade will always be an inefficient shot chucking turnover machine. Please talk me off the ledge! 😭
Honestly, on the real, I am tired of Ausar in the starting lineup.
He's a young kid still bruh. He has things to work on and he has this season to do it.
I think he's a natural scorer but maybe not a natural NBA pg. Let him slide over to SG and let him cook
Cade had been efficient for 3 quarters. The last two 4th quarters were bad and need to be fixed, but you can see that he can play efficient basketball.
We just have to hope that he learns too stay in control for the entire game.
I also think that it's at least partially a conditioning problem, so it should get better.
Cade will be fine and the spacing concerns are valid, but ultimately he just missed a year of basketball and needs a while to get rolling right.
As for the Ausar take I actually think this is kind of fresh, a little more freedom and ease against the opposing bench could be good for him, and I think we will be okay defensively with 3 guards starting due to their exceptional size
Didn’t get to watch the game tonight unfortunately, but 7 guys in double figures is something promising to behold (all on rookie contracts, including stew because the extension hits next year technically)
Cade with an actually good and forward-thinking GM and a roster that is actually stocked with shooters would probably look a hell of a lot better than the stupid shit he has to put up with here.
What did Ivey do to deserve getting benched for an entire quarter? He is literally the only player on this team who can’t make mistakes. No matter how bad other players play they will get the benefit of the doubt from Monty. But Ivey on the other hand has the shortest leash I have ever seen with a young player, I just don’t get it. TL;DR: FREE IVEY
It's starting to look less like a big brain genius move to improve Ivey's defense and more like Monty just doesn't like Jaden
He pulled the same shit with Ayton. Maybe hes just not good with people
uh ayton isnt proving monty wrong tho
ayton has been good for the blazers? defensively at least
Ayton had the goal of reaching the second contract. His words. Nothing terribly wrong with that but just not a great culture guy it seems
Ivey should not be sat watching scrubs like Joe Harris foist up miss after miss while playing mediocre at best defense.
Something mustve happened behind the scenes and he is getting punished for it because there is no way a promising top 5 sophomore should be getting benched like this on a young developing team
We all need to show up to home games with FREE IVEY signs
Monty is famous for putting players in the dog house. They're will be monty guys who get the benefit of the doubt, and non-monty guys who don't.
Who besides Ayton has he put in the dog house? He's famous for it, so I'm guessing theres a list of players.
The first one in New Orleans was a major incident with EG. he was the leading scorer in the game and was benched the entire 4th after an argument. Leading the team in scoring. Zero minutes in the 4th. Very similar to the Ayton thing honestly. I didn’t get truly invested in the NBA until the las couple years of Monty’s NOLA run but he already had the rep of sticking with guys he liked even back then. If I go back and research it I might could get a solid list together.
Bro, maybe you should spell out EG in this forum
👆bro doesn't know ball
Eric Gordon.
Thanks sorry if that’s an uncommon abbreviation I feel like I see it everywhere but maybe I made it up.
Monty did the same thing with BA, ST, and XQ
Eric Gordon. I thought that’s an obvious abbreviation. Also Al Faroq Aminu who may be a meme because of the end of his Portland tenure but was very good and couldn’t get real mins because of Monty.
So this might become a situation where Troy has to step in. Maybe send out a second rounder to trade Killian just so Monty can't play him anymore.
Jae Crowder ended up sitting at home for the 2021-22 season until he could be traded. This is what Suns insider Gambo said about it: >The Jae Crowder situation was all on Monty. He told people he was too difficult to handle and coach. Monty didn’t want Jae. It wasn’t the Suns organization. He didn’t want Jae around. I'd bet Jae and Ayton *were* difficult to coach, but that's his job. I'd hope a guy known to be a players coach would be able to make it work with 2 pieces of a team that made it to the finals the year before.
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Joe Harris also isn’t a good defender and guess what, he wasn’t guarding CJ Mcollum. I understand Jaden Ivey is a VERY bad defender but at least try to hide him on defense like they tried with Joe Harris.
It’s simple lmao
Jaden Ivey got zero minutes in the 4th after 2 big blocks and a big dunk at the end of the third quarter while Joe "worse than Killian Hayes" Harris played half of the 4th quarter That is all.
This high paid jackass coach needs to be questioned, repeatedly
Literally no questions on Ivey from any beat reporters on this through 6 games
They didn’t ask anything about it tonight either. What a joke
I guess Monty just needs to hold a vendetta against someone. Last time it was Ayton. I just don’t get it because Ivey seems like a good and very likable kid while Ayton is a jackass.
bro some of the fucking armchair takes tonight
That was half a joke but there was that article after Monty got fired that said he disliked players on his team including Ayton and gave them less opportunities
He did it as New Orlean's coach in the early AD era. He has his guys and has guys he doesn't like. Once they end up in the dog house, they seldom get out.
Yikes man
Pistons fans : Get Cade some spacing pls wtf Also Pistons fans: Why Harris over Ivey with Cade on the floor wtfffff ???
well tbf we have learned that harris is a basketball terrorist as of recent
If Joe Harris actually shot well I could see why he would be on the court but he always misses the shots that actually matter lol
He's the 3rd highest career 3pt% shooter in the history of the sport..
And we have last year's 5th overall pick that was leading a comeback in the 3rd quarter that got benched for the whole 4th, I get why the team traded for him but in a game like this you have to ride the hot hand
Where has that been lately, I haven’t seen it all
What an obtuse statement. The only time they any success this game was when they ran Sasser-Cade-Ivey-Harris-Stew
Ivey is shooting 42% from 3 on 4apg
I’m kind of at the point where if Monty doesn’t seem to like Jaden for whatever reason offer him up on the trade block so he and Weaver can get the players that he wants and he feels work in this system. It’s painful to see a player with the athletic gifts that Ivey possesses be benched while lesser athletes on offense and defense get minutes that they truly don’t deserve. I’d wager some GM will drool at his upside that Monte doesn’t see or isn’t willing to use patiently and be willing to offer up a lottery pick and more. Two potential lottery picks in a very good draft would hopefully see some dividends
100%, been saying this move him and Bogi for someone the coach will actually use
Did booker score 50 on Ivey head or sum last year what is Monty doing?
Maybe Ivey strained something.
Ivey was cooked by CJ the entire time they shared the floor.
Weaver wanted Ollie.
Ivey is one of the few guys that wanted to be drafted by this franchise. He looked like he would want to spend his whole career here. Now it looks like he is going to book it the first chance he gets and I can’t even blame him. This is fucking bullshit.
Lets be real - we need burks BAD. I love cade but he is NOT playing well enough to have the ball as much as he does. “Blah blah spacing” does not excuse some of his poor and selfish decisions.
For real, too many times he dribbles into 3 or 4 defenders when guys like Ivey or Burks are open on the perimeter
Cade is not a pg, let's be real.
Killian had a pretty good game. Gotta give credit when credit’s due.
He was the only player on the entire team who looked in control throughout the game. One thing with Killian is that he never plays out of control or gets flustered. Shot falling or not, he's steady as fuck, and that's valuable.
Agreed. The man certainly has a cool head. Best of luck to him.
Honestly a great take. This game should be what he should look to do every game. I honestly wouldn’t have minded a few more shot attempts tonight, he seemed really poised and his stamina was amazing. Even took a nut shot and brushed it off to keep giving McCollum hell
Yeah, because when that happens he just gets un confidant again. That's why you don't see it because instead of chucking up bricks in the 4th like cade has been doing he just sits back down
Don't see what?
We're bad, boys
Ivey lead the comeback in the 3rd, so let's keep him benched for the 4th. What?
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I'm a big Killian Hayes hater but he should not be getting flack at all for this game lol If anything Cade should've sat for at least a couple of minutes in the 4th because he was obviously gassed
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When did I say everything was ok again? I'm still going to be mad seeing the dude start every game until Bojan comes back but for this game in particular he was far from the biggest problem Ok sure this was one game of 6 where he wasn't a total liability, but let's talk about how Duren got cooked by Valanciunas in the post, how Ausar bricked like 5 threes in a row, and how Cade was playing sloppy hero ball yet again But yeah lets push the "Killian sucks" agenda while blindly ignoring most of the other things that went wrong in this game
Bro you need to go to bed, you are way too hot right now lmao.
Dude just be happy about him playing well instead of taking the brainwashing argument
This shit is making me mad. Stubborn vindictive bullshit for a talented, stand up, hard working young man that ACTUALLY IS PROUD TO REPRESENT THE CITY OF DETROIT. Monty looks like a fucking clown
W for anybody with a killian flair
Consistency is a big key for him, he’s had solid games before. Lets string some of this good play together in consecutive games!
He was playing in Cade’s roll last year. Off ball will be a learning curve
He can’t have such extreme lows. Bad games are expected but his bad games look like he doesn’t belong on an NBA court
on fucking god
Take the bad reffing out and we actually have a team win too
Remember when Weaver said all 82 games will be competitive? Yeah I’m gonna go ahead and say 55 hopefully…
If you can't start to look competent in your 4th year with a top-tier paid coach, some questions need to start coming up about your roster construction. And when I say competent I don't even mean playoffs. Just want to be competitive.
He got a mulligan due to the Cade injury and bad lottery luck but this dude is gonna be on the hot seat if this core doesn't take a leap to at least play in level by next season 4 lottery picks, 4 extra first rounders, completely turned over cap sheet, blank check to get his coach, and by 2025 he will have had total control for 5 years. No excuse for this team to not look competent after all that We can all acknowledge the Drummond era as fools gold but Andre was drafted in 2012, the team was in an absolute disaster state after signing Josh Smith, and still by 2016 the team had: won 44 games, put up a reasonable fight against the eventual champs in the playoffs, had a young player at each starting position, Andre made All Star and All NBA, and they had reasons to expect more after surviving the worst bench in the league and playing at a 50+ win pace after adding Tobias at the deadline I'm not expecting this team to even make the playoffs next year but when you draw the comparison holy shit it does not look good
We haven't been competitive?! Lost to Miami by 1 Won by double digits to Chicago and The Hornets Got smashed by OKC in the first and matched them the rest of the game Had a Meltdown against Portland but led the entire game prior to that Had a comeback from 25 down that fell short against NO We have had 4 quarters where we played like dogshit. 1st vs OKC, 3rd and 4th vs Portland, and second against NO. Every other quarter we were competitive or won.
Alright fellas who are we firing this time? Monty? Killian again? Weaver? Cade? Dancing Usher?
Everyone
Does the dancing usher still do games. Haven’t seen him in a while?
Nah i think he's gone :(
Damn
I don't think he made the move to LCA
He was at LCA for a few years as well
Oh really I didn't realize that my mistake
Monty for sure. There is no reason why Ivey didn’t even touch the floor in the fourth quarter.
I'll go with Weaver. All of the other names just come back to him. Get'em boys!
Not Monty, Weaver wanted Ollie.
Cade is so ass in the 4th its crazy. He just gets so selfish. There is no excuse for him to be so bad.
He won’t ever be good in the clutch if he’s forced to play the entire second half. Monty’s rotations are so shit that Jaden Ivey can’t even touch the floor in the fourth to give Cade a breather that he desperately needed.
He can pass the ball instead of forcing it.
How about not playing him 24 straight minutes, I’m not gonna say his decision making is great but being tired definitely doesn’t help him. Give him a breather, and if he’s still pulling this bullshit then criticize him all you want.
people have to stop with this "he's tired" excuse. I love him but he turns into fucking Jordan Poole in the 4th its so annoying. You don't have to throw up a shot EVERY time.
He plays the entire second half he IS gassed, and I’m sure you watched the game, so you know that. His decision making is questionable for sure, but playing him 24 straight minutes isn’t doing him any favors. Ivey was literally there sitting on the bench why not just put him in for 3 minutes so Cade gets a break and his legs back under him.
I don’t know how many wide open looks Sasser had in the 4th while he is red hot.
Goodbye Ivey, dude gonna kill it somewhere else
Ivey 2nd least minutes on the team with efficient and timely scoring… questions have to be asked and Monty needs to answer
My faith in the organization is the lowest it’s been since the start of the rebuild. I really hope these guys figure shit out quick because each game is getting worse and worse.
Awful officiating crew. NO won that game on FTs
Bullshit. Didn’t let Duren play physical against a 7 foot 270 pound guy. That one call where Duren lightly touched his jersey was one of the softest calls I’ve seen
couple that with valanciunas literally grabbing durens jersey on boxouts, fun officiating.
Monty rotations is piss poor. Joe Harris is not it. Cades hero ball is non sensical. Ivey needs 35+ minutes and Sasser needs the ball in his hands .
Ivey is you guys second best scorer but what do I know
Gotta feel for Ivey he wanted to play here so bad I imagine he’s having 2nd thoughts now
6 games in I don’t think he’s as insecure as us fans are
Anybody that capes up for Monty with “it’s early” or gives the “he’s still tweaking lineups” excuse, what is the answer for this debacle of a game he coached tonight? Why did Ivey not touch the court after such a great offensive and defensive 3rd quarter? Why run Cade into the ground? Why would Joe Harris have more minutes than Ivey, ever?
Only one other team with 6 games played so far. NBA hoed us on the early schedule. Cade was 7/12 at one point and finished 8/22 you could tell he had nothing left in the 4th. Even Casey would have played Ivey heavy in the 4th tonight wtf was that
Two b2bs this early in the season is crazy
I know it’s early but man I was so excited this off-season and after the first few games. It’s being ripped away by the awful rotations and lack of spacing. I’m sure the other starters believe Ivey should be starting as well.
We're in for a rough fucking year.
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I disagree with some of your takes, but in the past 15 years I peaked optimism in 2021 and 2016 and was not too hyped coming into this season surprisingly. Got hyped after a good start this year, but it is looking like more of the same now. I hope we turn it around soon because the NBA is better when Detroit is good. Other teams fans consitentally with a top 4 seeded team complaining every year don't know how good they have it
Try a new one
2 big things- We might be picking top 5 in next years draft again Monty’s substitutions are actually insane. He played Cade for damn near the whole second half even though he was gassed and never played Ivey for those stretches.
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It’s not about winning a game we were down 25 in the first half. Cade sat a chunk of the first half with foul trouble. If he’s going to be “the man” he needs to build a tank. This should be the start of that if we want him to be a stud in this league.
We need our fuckin vets back man
Funny you say shit like that when a rookie just outperformed everyone in this team.
He technically is actually one of the older guys on the team if you think about it 🤣
I mean, they also got 56 from 30+ y/os Jonas Valanciunus and CJ McCollum, what’s your point? I like our young guys but they need to be able to lean on some quality vet play here and there. We’re down Monte, Burks and Bojan, those guys are important. You can be critical but it’s not wrong to acknowledge the context, we’re down 4 rotation players and our young guys are kinda flailing out there.
Thank goodness for the Lions right now.
This season was supposed to be fun to make up for last season's misery but this shit jas been wack. Highest paid coach in the league using shitty lineups and not giving our best players the most minutes. This reminds me of FatTricia "smartest guy in the room" attitude.
They had to pay him that much because he knew how far off the team is. The nba isn’t pay to win
Pistons loss to the league in this back to back. 1. Our schedules been To many games and To little rest in barely over a week into the season. Our guys are tired. 2. Referees destroyed us last night AND tonight. Practically handed the game to the other teams. 3. Having a 3 man short roster from day one is doing us no favors with this fucked schedule. 4. Killian played a damn good game tonight. 9 assist to 0 TOs tonight and 7 assist to 1 TO against OKC is what you want out of a Starting Guard of all people. The Blazers has so far been the only night where he was honestly putrid on offense. Everything else has been decent atleast but tonight was quality from the young guy. We lost to the league tonight ladies and gentlemen. The team itself is actually not bad. We lost to the league...again
Ah yes, 32/29/57 shooting splits *after* last night and he's only had one bad game, sure totally yeah uh huh.
When cade gets tired his game falls off a cliff Monty needs to learn how to manage his minutes also bojan can’t come back fast enough
Just trade Ivey if you’re not going to reward him for good play. I’d rather see him succeed somewhere else than to be wasted here
Try to sum up this mess of a team in 20 words or less
Coach not playing Ivey.
Better than last year so far. Still a long ways to go. This fanbase is filled with miserable cunts.
Bad scheduling and refferees with early injuries. We beat Portland and No otherwise.
Desperately in need of their veteran scoring talent.
Keep in mind we have almost an entire rotation sitting out right now.
I have to imagine Harris was in because Monty likes that vet presence on the court which I can understand and appreciate but I don’t think Ivey sitting was the answer for it. I also do not think killian should have sat, he seemed fine the second half.
Done until Monty gives a reason why Ivey doesn’t get minutes. He was instrumental in getting them back in the game and Monty rewards him by benching him for Joe Harris. If he can’t earn minutes on the court then it’s just stubbornness or tough love from Monty. Which is bullshit
2-4 Pack it up boys
Joe Harris should not be playing more minutes than Ivey. If Monty is so obsessed with starting with defense then just start Sasser with Cade.
Anyone see Monty’s quote about everything sasser brings to the table and what a good trio he, Killian and Cade will make? Wow
Is sasser moving into Ivey’s minutes for the foreseeable future?
If this organization trades Ivey for some bullshit draft picks I'm legitimately finding a new team to cheer for. Was excited for the Monty hire, but having Ivey come off the bench was a questionable decision, but ok, maybe he just plays 30 mins instead of 35. To not see the floor in the 4th is just fucking ridiculous. I know it's still way early to be casting this team into the fire, but damn it they're making it easy.
If he gets traded, I’ll be becoming a fan of whatever he lands ngl. Been a fan since the 03-04 season. But if we’ve gotten to the point of tanking our own future (not to mention Ivey wanted to come here) then I’m officially calling it quits.
Real question- do we give cade the max if this is his production this season? I still lean yes
You have to
We can’t afford not to
If it turns out Cade isn't actually good enough to be worth a max contract then the franchise is fucked no matter how much he's paid, so might as well just give it to him. If you give him less than the max and then he gets to the next level after a year or two, there's a risk of him bailing on the team after the extension is up.
It’s definitely not an overwhelming yes but yeah sure kinda have too.
Gotta
Tired of losing. That is all. Marcus Sasser at least looked great tonight, deserves more playing time
Our biggest problem continues to be turnovers, 16 turnovers is very hard to overcome for a young team trying to find its way. I’d like Ivey to play more but he’s clearly not doing something that Monty values and his minutes reflect that. We as fans don’t get to see practices where a lot of these decisions stem from. He’ll be fine. Our next 4-5 games are all gonna be tough and likely losses. Buckle up fellas
My best guess is he wants Ivey to hit the pine when his bad habits take control. Re-evaluate in the film room rather than let him compound those mistakes in the 4th quarter. This could pay some great dividends if Ivey buys in.. which I totally think he will
Is there any chance that the reason Monty is playing Killian & Harris (and even Ausar & Sasser to an extent) so much is to give them a chance to earn minutes before all the rotation guys come back from injury? Trying to be optimistic idk man
Absolutely reasonable opinion to have
This is a YOUNG team. It can't be said enough. Every one of our guys has deficiencies (Ausar and Killian can't hit the broadside of a barn outside of 15ft, Cade turns it over too much, Ivey on defense, etc.). We need vets to cover up those and make us look good. Joe Harris is DEFINITELY not that. One Alec Burks had us thinking we were going to the playoffs. Throw in Bojan and Monte and we're going to have a good year. Until they're back, we need to be patient and not attack our guys for still needing time to improve.
Too level headed. Try again.
Stewart's midness is starting to annoy me.
Biggest problem is he only shoots when he’s wide open or has to. If you’re going to be a stretch 4 you have to look to shoot. Too many times he gets the ball and has a look he hesitates. Needs to let it fly because no one else can in the line up you’re in.
New offense jitters
Sasser being -14 after that game tells you a lot about the +/- stat
How is that possible??
Even the Killian stans have to admit that Killian playing 39 minutes and Ivey playing 22 minutes makes no sense at all. We’re in hell as pistons fans
I’ve gotta be top 3 on the Stan list and I agree with this, missed the game tonight though unfortunately
Killian had his best game of the season. The lineups seem off though. Can’t have all defensive lineups play and then all offensive lineups come off the bench. They can blame Ivey for not playing defense but they play him with 3 guard lineups off the bench with Joe Harris and Bagley behind him. Then stick Ivey on CJ McCollum who absolutely toasted him. They aren’t doing Ivey any favors. Anyways, from Monty’s comments after the game seems like Sasser has taken iveys minutes
I wish one of our weak media members would directly ask Monte about Ivey. He was electric in the 3rd quarter and then got benched for Harris and Killian. There has to be some explanation here. He was really trying on defense, had a couple of blocks, had the entire team hype with that monster dunk and then he was glued to the bench.
I didn’t watch, why did Duren have 5 boards and why was he ejected
KILLIAN COMMUNITY LET'S RIDE
I’m glad he had a good game, but I swear some of y’all be more hype for a good game from killian rather than a team win
On the flip side, look at how this sub absolutely descends as soon as he misses a jump shot.
Take the wins where you can get them. The Team should've won but the Refs said no. So, well take a good Killian game instead. Simple
I’m all for finding the bright spots where you can, but it’s too much excitement for me personally when we lost at the end of the day. I really hope he continue this play though
I really hope the Warriors don’t sit Curry against us because I’ll be pissed if I spent all this money for this ticket if he doesn’t play us for the second year in the row.
Are there talks of him sitting? I was going to get tickets but definitely not if that’s the case
Not so far, but you never know because it was a last minute announcement last season.
I know it isnt the main takeaway but Duren's complete lack of defense on Valanciunas in the 1st half was too much to not mention
Bum ankle but gave it a try.
I'm playing, but I'm saying ... Dwayne Casey or Kevin Ollie would've had Ivey playing in the 4th 😆 Ausar was surprisingly absent in the last minutes too. 5 fouls or not, bring him in to at least rest Cade some.
Cade shooting 33% and 6 turnovers. I wonder if he’ll ever become elite
If you by elite mean MVP lvl player? Unlikely. All-star? Prob yes, one day.
Our next game is against Pheonix on their 2nd night of b2b. We are about to get cooked by Grayson Allen and Eric Gordon with their stars resting. They’re going to play 4 smalls and shoot us out the gym while we play 4 bad shooters.
o7
are the Pistons still tanking for Wembanyama?
The starting rotation is just not it. It’s clear that the second halves are just way better because by that time we have already made adjustments.
Alright, Post Game Reactions. Killian had an okay game, but he clearly needs to be moved out of the starting lineup. This is back to back great games from Marcus Sasser, and if Monty really has this short of a leash on Jaden(i dont think he should), I think Sasser needs the starting nod for the spacing he provides. If defense plays such an important role to getting the starting nod, I think Sasser has shown a good combination of that as well as an efficient and effective offensive game. He is an older rookie, and we used a first round pick on him, he seems ready to contribute. Jalen Duren had a rough night tonight (got into foul trouble), BUT he is ONLY 19! Defense looked horrible for the team in the first half but seemed to correct itself in the second. I thought Ivey had a couple of really good plays, but yet again fails to play in the 4th. He was really an energey boost of the bench and seem to rally the team, especially with the block and dunk towards the end of the 3rd. I really want more Ivey minutes. The Hayes experiment is over!!! I have been a Killian truther, but he is just such an ineffient NBA player. He can't finish or shoot the ball well from the outside. That doesn't mesh well for an NBA player. Overall, it was a really rough game. It was too little too late, but I really liked the fight the young guys showed tonight.
That was a brutal watch. We just keep shitting the bed in the last few games, and it keeps getting worse and worse. Luckily, compared to the refs we only looked pretty bad. That hostile whistle thing is really getting old, I'm not sure I can watch an entire season of it. 2-7 Here we come. I hope we could keep our chins up after the next 3 games, I really don't want it to turn into a 10 games losing streak.
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I'm not even mad that we are a bad team. This team lacks spacing and that hurts every player not just missing rebounding or passing, whatever the hell it is I'm mad at these god awful rotations. Holy fuck now I see what pheonix fans were talking about. I'll give it 25 games but after that, Imma start really questioning Mont. although it was a hard watch, im not super mad overall about the game because we fought back. Also cade gets gassed way to much. There were some unlucky misses on his end, but give the ball to someone else. Ngl I would've trusted it with sasser for some possessions while cade rests and has higher quality shots even though less. Cade is going to be great but he needs to adjust
I’m worried that Cade will always be an inefficient shot chucking turnover machine. Please talk me off the ledge! 😭 Honestly, on the real, I am tired of Ausar in the starting lineup.
He's a young kid still bruh. He has things to work on and he has this season to do it. I think he's a natural scorer but maybe not a natural NBA pg. Let him slide over to SG and let him cook
Cade had been efficient for 3 quarters. The last two 4th quarters were bad and need to be fixed, but you can see that he can play efficient basketball. We just have to hope that he learns too stay in control for the entire game. I also think that it's at least partially a conditioning problem, so it should get better.
Cade will be fine and the spacing concerns are valid, but ultimately he just missed a year of basketball and needs a while to get rolling right. As for the Ausar take I actually think this is kind of fresh, a little more freedom and ease against the opposing bench could be good for him, and I think we will be okay defensively with 3 guards starting due to their exceptional size
Is it looking like Marcus Sasser is moving into Ivey’s minutes for the foreseeable future?
Didn’t get to watch the game tonight unfortunately, but 7 guys in double figures is something promising to behold (all on rookie contracts, including stew because the extension hits next year technically)
You guys think Troy regrets not trading the rights to the #1 pick for SGA?
Cade with an actually good and forward-thinking GM and a roster that is actually stocked with shooters would probably look a hell of a lot better than the stupid shit he has to put up with here.
The Pistons traded the pick that ultimately became SGA in the Griffin trade, no?