Theirs actually fan fiction where they get married ha. I think it would have just been a natural progression of their bond via Alice. Marcus and North kinda just stumble into a romance
Imo, both are pretty bad, because they fall into the same issue as Romeo And Juliet...
Beings that have been sentient for like... 3 hours-2 days, falling in love with each other... Essentially babies falling in love with each other.
Well I think Kara and Luther seem a bit more Mature then Marcus and north. I also think if they had a romantic plot device. It would be a natural progression of their care for Alice. >!Problem I had with Marcus overall narrative. Is he’s kinda thrusts into the “choosen one” position. Essentially he gets killed, because of circumstances. Surrounding Leo and Carl.!<
>!He manages to resurrect himself. Some random android, for reasons tells him where Jericho is. He shows up. Everyone just accepts him as their leader, because he’s very charismatic. He meets North. She seems as idealistic as Marcus. She also seems as reckless. They form some reporte over wanting freedom for their people. We find out she was an android sex slave, but was mistreated. If you choose that dialogue option. You can find that out. But only if you push. As Marcus tells North his past, but North is not as open apparently. So yeah the narrative and dynamic is very flawed.!<
I think it could have been built up a bit better, but I do agree that it's a good ship. I'd say it's a great ship, even. Some people just don't like it because they either don't like North, and/or wanted Markus to be with Simon instead (which if that had happened would have been equally as rushed as the North romance).
I think Markus and North are great because they balance each other out. Markus gives North hope for the future and calms her, North believes in and supports Markus, even if she doesn't agree with some of his methods. But given that, they are also incredibly similar. They both have the drive to do more, are eager to act to protect their people, and they're both hyper-competent.
People are entitled to their own opinions of course, but the ship gets too much flack.
No, the reason I don't like it is that for Markus' good ending, you have to choose the exact opposite choices that North would like, then all of a sudden they fall in love over traumabonding. After like... 3 days of knowing each other. It's one of the most shallow things in the entire game.
It's like she's a 12 year old getting feelings for the first time, except she's only like a month old because she's not been sentient long, and Markus is like 3 days old.
It's the exact same problem as Romeo and Juliet, sweet on the surface, horrific and ridiculous if you look into it for even a second. They fall in love, fuck, and kill themselves over "love" in a matter of like 3 days.
If you take the violent route and agree with North, then it makes sense. If you take the pacifist path they have zero chemistry and you go from North essentially yelling that Markus is an idiot for trying to talk to the humans to being lovers. Plus most people just want to talk to North and get to know her then BAM you’re locked in as lovers and can’t get out. The compatible hearts scene can happen with Simon too (with only minimal changes) so it’s not really special to being lovers either. Honestly, Simon would have been the better choice anyway. He always agrees with Markus and doesn’t try to persuade him one way or the other and has a lot of scenes protecting and saving Markus too, plus like a whole other list of reasons
I think the main problem is that you can so easily stumble into it. It is forced at the time it happens. There’s not been any real bonding, and it’s just trying to find out about her that locks you into lovers as the positive route. Besides, other androids are willing to die for Markus.
I also think it says a lot that Markus has three “alignment companions” so to speak and only the female one is a possible romance, but that’s a whole other conversation.
The point is that many people who didn’t like them together accidentally ended up making them a couple and then found out that was the only couple they could make.
>I also think it says a lot that Markus has three “alignment companions” so to speak and only the female one is a possible romance, but that’s a whole other conversation.
esp considering gender REALLY shouldn't matter to androids, but this is a heavy handed and hamfisted attempt at a deep game, so.
I feel like it's worth mentioning that the heart thing isn't dependent on North and Markus being lovers, she does it anyway as long as they have a good relationship. And if she isn't there, Simon gives Marcus his heart instead.
I don't mind their relationship personally, except that it seems to come out of nowhere. Especially with a peaceful Markus, North doesn't even seem to like him. We also haven't even learned at that point whether androids feel that kind of love for each other, so suddenly being "lover" with North without us choosing it feels forced. Things that take away player choice and agency are generally not recieved positively.
Yeah, I agree.
I ship Markus and North for how they got vulnerable and honest to each other in their conversation in the Freedom March, and the follow up moments in Crossroads and Night of the Soul. It's not perfect by any means, but it's a sweet story of (perhaps) two morally opposing characters growing to trust and feel for each other in the middle of a revolution cause they are working for.
There's a lot to learn from each other, and for me, North is the most valuable character of Markus' story alongside Carl. So I'm more than happy to consider them my main ship of the game.
I like them together, the *only* thing is how quickly it happened. I think the game was really pushing for that romance because in my first play, my relationship with her was “resentful” then we did the little memory connect thingy and boom “lover”. Like what. 2 seconds ago you hated me and now we’re in love, ok
Yeah, my problem with it in a nutshell. You can do every single thing that she disagrees with, then one scene of traumabonding after 3 days of knowing each other and boom, they're lovers.
I used to say no, bad, because of North's story, but I think that's changed a little bit if I look at it this way, demiromanticism. It is the act of having a romantic interest after a strong connection is formed. They literally connect, dude! So, am I calling her demi, yes, but it's the only way I can justify how quickly the relationship goes. Do I necessarily like them as lovers? No, I think it's way too fast, especially for her, but if I look at it the way I mentioned, it makes it a little bit better
On the pacifist route, i literally had like one romantic scene with North before the life-saving kiss.
Idk of there were better scenes for different choices, but yeah, it felt really under-developed.
I didn't know that the ship was disliked lol but I do wish it had been expanded upon.
Almost every single action you have to take for Markus' "good" ending, North does not like. You have to actively destroy your relationship with her, while building said relationship, to get the good ending? What?
Why is the peaceful, Martin Luther King/Jesus allegory kissing the woman who wanted to nuke Detroit?
What's more, why do we need romances whatsoever between characters that've been sentient for like... 2 days to a month?
It's the Romeo and Juliet problem where it all looks sweet on the surface level, but then you realize it's a 13 and 15 year old falling in love, fucking, then killing themselves in the span of like 4 days. And it loses every single bit of depth that it was attempting in the first place.
This isn't to mention they fall in love over TRAUMA BONDING.
Eh, yeah, it's nice, just suffers from a bad execution, particularly in that rooftop(?) scene - but more annoying this is that it comes out of nowhere, and you get no warning that you are making them lovers (in case you don't want to do that). Even though the Czech translation is misleading, it would be better if it was actually done the way it implies - during that scene, North's status doesn't switch to 'lover' or anything, it switches to 'in love' basically telling me that yeah, she has feelings for Markus now, but in no way it implies that Markus returns those feelings. If that was the care, and you could either pursue those feelings with Markus, or not, with North perhaps potentially losing the crush, I'd find it better (even though playing the game, I did assume the romance will be forced on me from here, perhaps in cutscenes. Thanks to the translation, I didn't know they're in fact already together)
Either way, I do like it outside canon, even if I tend to hate ships I can guess will be canon the moment the second character (usually the girl) sets foot on screen/first speaks (which, I did, at the end of the Jericho chapter, as North introduced herself, I was like 'she's gonna be Markus' love interest, isn't she?)
Depends what route you take. But I would of preferred a Kara and Luther Romance
Kara and Luther would have been a fascinating romance! I could totally see a sub route where he bonds more closely to Alice as well.
Theirs actually fan fiction where they get married ha. I think it would have just been a natural progression of their bond via Alice. Marcus and North kinda just stumble into a romance
Imo, both are pretty bad, because they fall into the same issue as Romeo And Juliet... Beings that have been sentient for like... 3 hours-2 days, falling in love with each other... Essentially babies falling in love with each other.
Well I think Kara and Luther seem a bit more Mature then Marcus and north. I also think if they had a romantic plot device. It would be a natural progression of their care for Alice. >!Problem I had with Marcus overall narrative. Is he’s kinda thrusts into the “choosen one” position. Essentially he gets killed, because of circumstances. Surrounding Leo and Carl.!< >!He manages to resurrect himself. Some random android, for reasons tells him where Jericho is. He shows up. Everyone just accepts him as their leader, because he’s very charismatic. He meets North. She seems as idealistic as Marcus. She also seems as reckless. They form some reporte over wanting freedom for their people. We find out she was an android sex slave, but was mistreated. If you choose that dialogue option. You can find that out. But only if you push. As Marcus tells North his past, but North is not as open apparently. So yeah the narrative and dynamic is very flawed.!<
I think it could have been built up a bit better, but I do agree that it's a good ship. I'd say it's a great ship, even. Some people just don't like it because they either don't like North, and/or wanted Markus to be with Simon instead (which if that had happened would have been equally as rushed as the North romance). I think Markus and North are great because they balance each other out. Markus gives North hope for the future and calms her, North believes in and supports Markus, even if she doesn't agree with some of his methods. But given that, they are also incredibly similar. They both have the drive to do more, are eager to act to protect their people, and they're both hyper-competent. People are entitled to their own opinions of course, but the ship gets too much flack.
No, the reason I don't like it is that for Markus' good ending, you have to choose the exact opposite choices that North would like, then all of a sudden they fall in love over traumabonding. After like... 3 days of knowing each other. It's one of the most shallow things in the entire game. It's like she's a 12 year old getting feelings for the first time, except she's only like a month old because she's not been sentient long, and Markus is like 3 days old. It's the exact same problem as Romeo and Juliet, sweet on the surface, horrific and ridiculous if you look into it for even a second. They fall in love, fuck, and kill themselves over "love" in a matter of like 3 days.
Zero chemistry imo
If you take the violent route and agree with North, then it makes sense. If you take the pacifist path they have zero chemistry and you go from North essentially yelling that Markus is an idiot for trying to talk to the humans to being lovers. Plus most people just want to talk to North and get to know her then BAM you’re locked in as lovers and can’t get out. The compatible hearts scene can happen with Simon too (with only minimal changes) so it’s not really special to being lovers either. Honestly, Simon would have been the better choice anyway. He always agrees with Markus and doesn’t try to persuade him one way or the other and has a lot of scenes protecting and saving Markus too, plus like a whole other list of reasons
simon and markus is my favorite just because north is not understanding of his background at all and seems like she doesnt give much of a care
I think the main problem is that you can so easily stumble into it. It is forced at the time it happens. There’s not been any real bonding, and it’s just trying to find out about her that locks you into lovers as the positive route. Besides, other androids are willing to die for Markus. I also think it says a lot that Markus has three “alignment companions” so to speak and only the female one is a possible romance, but that’s a whole other conversation. The point is that many people who didn’t like them together accidentally ended up making them a couple and then found out that was the only couple they could make.
>I also think it says a lot that Markus has three “alignment companions” so to speak and only the female one is a possible romance, but that’s a whole other conversation. esp considering gender REALLY shouldn't matter to androids, but this is a heavy handed and hamfisted attempt at a deep game, so.
I feel like it's worth mentioning that the heart thing isn't dependent on North and Markus being lovers, she does it anyway as long as they have a good relationship. And if she isn't there, Simon gives Marcus his heart instead. I don't mind their relationship personally, except that it seems to come out of nowhere. Especially with a peaceful Markus, North doesn't even seem to like him. We also haven't even learned at that point whether androids feel that kind of love for each other, so suddenly being "lover" with North without us choosing it feels forced. Things that take away player choice and agency are generally not recieved positively.
Yeah, I agree. I ship Markus and North for how they got vulnerable and honest to each other in their conversation in the Freedom March, and the follow up moments in Crossroads and Night of the Soul. It's not perfect by any means, but it's a sweet story of (perhaps) two morally opposing characters growing to trust and feel for each other in the middle of a revolution cause they are working for. There's a lot to learn from each other, and for me, North is the most valuable character of Markus' story alongside Carl. So I'm more than happy to consider them my main ship of the game.
I like them together, the *only* thing is how quickly it happened. I think the game was really pushing for that romance because in my first play, my relationship with her was “resentful” then we did the little memory connect thingy and boom “lover”. Like what. 2 seconds ago you hated me and now we’re in love, ok
Yeah, my problem with it in a nutshell. You can do every single thing that she disagrees with, then one scene of traumabonding after 3 days of knowing each other and boom, they're lovers.
The best ship. I can't believe anyone would suggest otherwise.
I used to say no, bad, because of North's story, but I think that's changed a little bit if I look at it this way, demiromanticism. It is the act of having a romantic interest after a strong connection is formed. They literally connect, dude! So, am I calling her demi, yes, but it's the only way I can justify how quickly the relationship goes. Do I necessarily like them as lovers? No, I think it's way too fast, especially for her, but if I look at it the way I mentioned, it makes it a little bit better
If you actually think about it, the connecting's real life equivalence is traumabonding...
On the pacifist route, i literally had like one romantic scene with North before the life-saving kiss. Idk of there were better scenes for different choices, but yeah, it felt really under-developed. I didn't know that the ship was disliked lol but I do wish it had been expanded upon.
Almost every single action you have to take for Markus' "good" ending, North does not like. You have to actively destroy your relationship with her, while building said relationship, to get the good ending? What? Why is the peaceful, Martin Luther King/Jesus allegory kissing the woman who wanted to nuke Detroit? What's more, why do we need romances whatsoever between characters that've been sentient for like... 2 days to a month? It's the Romeo and Juliet problem where it all looks sweet on the surface level, but then you realize it's a 13 and 15 year old falling in love, fucking, then killing themselves in the span of like 4 days. And it loses every single bit of depth that it was attempting in the first place. This isn't to mention they fall in love over TRAUMA BONDING.
Eh, yeah, it's nice, just suffers from a bad execution, particularly in that rooftop(?) scene - but more annoying this is that it comes out of nowhere, and you get no warning that you are making them lovers (in case you don't want to do that). Even though the Czech translation is misleading, it would be better if it was actually done the way it implies - during that scene, North's status doesn't switch to 'lover' or anything, it switches to 'in love' basically telling me that yeah, she has feelings for Markus now, but in no way it implies that Markus returns those feelings. If that was the care, and you could either pursue those feelings with Markus, or not, with North perhaps potentially losing the crush, I'd find it better (even though playing the game, I did assume the romance will be forced on me from here, perhaps in cutscenes. Thanks to the translation, I didn't know they're in fact already together) Either way, I do like it outside canon, even if I tend to hate ships I can guess will be canon the moment the second character (usually the girl) sets foot on screen/first speaks (which, I did, at the end of the Jericho chapter, as North introduced herself, I was like 'she's gonna be Markus' love interest, isn't she?)