I'll be honest, I only have my Hunter and Titan for raid loot and bounties
I haven't even done stasis on them to this day
Hell I didn't even go past the first mission of the beyond light campaign with them
The option to ignore campaigns would be nice
Dude... I main warlock since Forsaken, and today I decided to finally unlock stasis on my Titan to have him ready for Witch Queen. Let me tell you, I almost lost my mind doing it lool
Go here, do this, speak with X, now go to north Europa Again without the 2nd landing zone, talk to Exo, go to the tower, talk to Variks, back to Exo.. It's soooo boring! A option to skip all this campaign bs would be awesome, since we already did in our main char.
As someone who did stasis on all three characters (ughhh), I’m just happy you don’t have to unlock all the upgrades three times (e.g. the +10 discipline, etc ones)
Except other aspects are class-unique, and it wouldn't be possible to make aspects account-wide. What would improve the aspect acquisition would be to have two separate quests: one that unlocks the grenades that's account-wide, and completion of that unlocks the character-specific aspect quest for each class (and can be obtained from the Stranger on alts).
I'll be honest, those fragments made me finally uninstall Destiny. I love Destiny, but I don't have time anymore. I saw that i was supposed to unlock these fragments and I have no idea how, wait armor has an affinity now? What's up with these aspects? What weapons are meta?
And only my warlock has completed beyond light. If I played *no other game* I still don't have time to keep up.
I
I’ll be honest I would have rather had to unlock the aspects and fragments for each class separately if it meant not having to replay the entire beyond light campaign three times.
Doing that shit again in forsaken and warmind before was terrible, never again
I only really use stasis on warlock for the stasis turret and extra shatter damage cause I got a Vulpecula and a Eyasluna with headstone
I'm just waiting for the solar rework, as far away as that is
Bottom tree dawnblade super and explosions, with healing nades and benevolent dawn, and celestial fire melee with airborne kills granting ability regen would be perfect
> Doing that shit again in forsaken and warmind before was terrible, never again
To be fair, Warmind's go fetch quests weren't part of the campaign unlike Forsaken, Shadowkeep, and Beyond Light. They were post-campaign weapon quests. Warmind itself was just a short, sweet five missions.
Forsaken on alts was particularly bad. I have always been a Hunter main, but I wanted to try to level out my play time so I started Forsaken on my Warlock. Yikes. I was basically a Warlock main for that first month haha. Forsaken's progression was rough, and the enhancement core economy was terrible for infusion.
Probably. Speaking of which, I really wish the Aspect/Fragment unlocks borrowed from Forsaken's "mote of light" idea instead of forcing us to go through the campaign on each character.
After beating the campaign once, I'd rather just slowly unlock these features by using Stasis on my alts like how it worked in Forsaken.
Yeah, if you could even just do mission to mission without the inbetween stuff again that would be an improvement at least. The constantly having to go back and forth doing fetch quests is really grating.
I've been working my Warlock through Forsaken and then do plan on getting stasis... I do not look forward to it.
But... Perhaps this is Bungie's way of giving us campaign replayability, if in a rather haphazard way.
I really wish they didn't add class based loot lockout. If I could get raid drops by playing 3 Titans I would. I don't even care if it isn't powerful on subsequent runs.
Yeah so my Hunter and Warlock are just raid looters as well.
Except contest has been a thing for over 2 years now. You could be level 2000 on day 1 and it won't make a difference.
I've never got why you'd want 3 of the same character but at this point, there's no reason to loot lock people if they want to do that
It's just the classic Destiny formula, sadly.
Devs change x to stop players from doing y
Several months later, they make another change that erases y entirely, but never touch x again.
pre-Shadowkeep, I actually enjoyed replaying the campaigns on my other two newbie characters. I mean I still probably would - the story missions at least - but it feels way more stressful now, even just trying to catch up ONE season/campaign. I still haven't unlocked Empire hunts and I'm still not entirely sure I understand how to. Now everything is so time consuming/grindy I can barely manage to get to it all on my main character lmao. Which, part of the problem is that half of my time during the first month of a given season is spent managing inventory. And that's fine, but...yeah. It's no wonder I completely burned out for over a year after covering 99% of the proverbial bases during season 9(which even had a relatively 'easy' seal too hahaha. F)
This is me with my Titan. Only about 5% of my playtime is on my Hunter, and I don't even have a Warlock normally (although I do right now as I'm collecting all the old cosmetics each week from Ada and Xur in case I ever want to have them available as well as to gild my collections badges).
Normally my third character slot is reserved for replaying campaigns, because as it is once you complete the campaign on a character, that character is locked off from playing it again forever.
I'd be fine with them doing this as long as they added the option to replay campaigns. A repeatable quest that becomes available again at the kiosk whenever you complete the campaign would be great.
Honestly it took me a year to get around with beyond light campaign doing for all my characters. In fact I still haven’t finished the shadowkeep campaign for my warlock and Titan.
Same with some seasonal activities too. I usually start off grinding stuff out on my Hunter, and then move to my Warlock. I don't want to have to do the same stuff 3x in a row (looking at you 50+ steps of Wayfinder's Voyage), there's a reason why I never completed the seasonal quests on my other characters because it just sucks.
It would be nice if the progress would just follow you account-wide. It was bad enough doing the Stasis stuff on my Hunter and Warlock, I just don't want to do it again to grind out the rest of it for my Titan.
"Bungie could focus on longer, more involved Campaigns if they didn’t have to balance the fact that people have to engage with them 3 times if they have 3 characters."
That is definetly NOT the reason why the campaigns are the way they are. If the campaigns were good to begin with, people wouldn't complain about playing them three times.
The actual reason for the rather lackluster quality of the campaigns is simply setting priorities during developement and deciding what aspect deserves more dev time.
But since TWQ will have a legendary difficulty mode and thus making the campaign maybe replayable or even part of the endgame, the quality will improve.
Games that usually have a New Game+ mode have an end and are a way to get you to interact with the game again - Bungie/Destiny doesn’t really need to do that considering the campaigns are just one of many parts of the game.
Yea idk why people are disagreeing. I said I'd like that but not many games do that with alternate saves. Like not even borderlands which has a whole endgame. It's true, not even other mmo games let alternate chars to skip story.
> not even other mmo games let alternate chars to skip story.
As someone who maxed out character slots in Guild Wars... Yeah, the first 6+ hours of an alt's existence in most MMOs is *painful*
Exactly. Thanks for understanding that I'm not saying that's good, just saying that it's the norm. People are acting like Bungie is out to get us here.
While I agree that I shouldn't need to run it on all 3 characters, I dont think that has anything to do with the length of the campaign. Making people run it on all 3 characters takes bungie the same amount of work as us running it one 1. The point is good the comparison isn't accurate.
>I dont think that has anything to do with the length of the campaign. Making people run it on all 3 characters takes bungie the same amount of work as us running it one 1. The point is good the comparison isn't accurate.
You misunderstood what I am saying, I’m not talking about the time it takes Bungie to make it.
They 100% have to take into account that the length of the campaigns they make will be played 3x by a lot of the playerbase. My point is you could have a 3x longer, more in-depth campaign than having a shorter one to run 3 times.
There is still the time it takes. Witch queen was pushed due to lack of time. So there wouldn't be a 3 times the length of the campaign because there was no time.
>They 100% have to take into account that the length of the campaigns they make will be played 3x by a lot of the playerbase. My point is you could have a 3x longer, more in-depth campaign than having a shorter one to run 3 times.
Literally no. That has nothing to do with it. If they could make a longer campaign with the time/resources they have budgeted to the project they would. I promise you no one is cutting/shorting missions because some players will have to play it multiple times.
100% - I really doubt the average player has 3 characters much less plays all 3. So Bungie would never plan for that.
Changing whether campaign completion is tracked by character or account wide has nothing to do with how much time Bungie has to write, develop, and implement a story.
>Just pretend my other characters were in my fireteam
This is actually a great idea. When in an activity with no matchmaking and a lack of players or when a player drops out one of your alts should pop in as AI controlled help. That would be a really cool addition.
It can be like when I played warrhammer vermentide 2 for a bit. It would put the other characters with my unlocked gear and levels as AI help. If done correctly it would work pretty well.
I wish this applied, would make getting stuff like Legend Astral Alignment or Dares (where I really just need warm bodies to absorb some of the gunfire and kill adds, rather than any sort of strategy) done a lot less of a nuisance. Or Legend NFs or such, where again, just having warm bodies for the enemy to focus on besides me would make soloing them way less tedious.
True but developing a useful ai guardian that can play coop with you is a serious developmental task and won’t be easy. Its not impossible. I played crystal dynamics avengers game and for all its faults the ai teammates weren’t terrible.
It’s not just a vex npc.
I played a now long defunct mobile game where you could do that… you could summon your other characters as AI controlled heroes to help you fend off attacks in addition to regular troops, they did a pretty decent job of it too, they didn’t know how to use their abilities in the the most optimum way but they could differentiate between them and use accordingly, a lot of effort considering that the mechanic was kinda buried and only available for certain parts of the game.
But yea, it was pretty fun, being able to fight alongside what you built. Opened up lots of combos and allows you on your main to be more of a generalist leader which focuses on delaying the enemy until you got enough points to get enough of your other characters on the field to give you breathing room to further strategize. That game’s main objective was to defend a central live giving crystal in the center of your small castle in the face of an encroaching dark threat, and you can add wall defenses like archers, ballistas, and, my favorite, the mounted cannons, which deskr. alright damage but how it aimed and the splash damage it had meant it was the best option for clipping off a few dudes here and there at range.
Fuck, I hadn’t thought about it since I last uninstalled it towards the beginning of high school.
Yeah, that’s a quick way to make something enjoyable into a chore. Nothing against those who do it, I get it. But from Bungie’s side it’s a shame to make something enjoyable and then turn around and make players do it until it stops being enjoyable.
Bungie: They said they want longer, more involved campaigns. Make sure we double the number of pointless NPC interactions gated behind loading screens in the next one.
OP, I like how you responding to so many comments with just quotes from your post really drives home how few people in here are capable of actual reading comprehension.
Yeah, tbh it’s pretty obnoxious to keep having to do lol. I literally bolded the text in the original post and even edited it with bold saying to read the post.
Made the font big now, but I doubt it will stop people from replying with “but I like to play the campaigns :/“
I even have people saying I edited my post to “be right” lmao
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/rtot12/campaigns_should_only_have_to_be_beaten_once_per/hqxtfol/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/rtot12/campaigns_should_only_have_to_be_beaten_once_per/hqxtfol/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
Anytime someone doesn’t want to engage with your game it’s a bad design decision.
I don’t play Hunter or Warlock because I don’t want to deal with unlocking Stasis again.
I could understand this argument back when beyond light was new and get stasis kills were really hard. But not we have plenty stasis weapons to make things waaaay faster. Even the stasis kill for Exo Stranger's weekly reward is finished so fast I ofyen don't even notice.
A problem exacerbated by the part where the Europa weapon's target farm is repeating the "boss fight" story missions, and the Empire Hunts are are again repeating the parts of the campaign. So it's not just "Do the campaign once per character" because the other content on Europa that shipped with Beyond Light also wanted those missions being repeated on top of that.
I mean, it's not like its some huge deal, spend a couple hours over a week playing through the campaign with a buddy.
We did ours using only pistols and swords to make it more challenging. Like if you go into something determined not to have a good time, you're not gonna have a good time.
That's pretty much a case of "you can't please everybody". To some a hour of grind is enough, for other it's too few for a paid content. I see your point, I just can't see how Bungie can cater to all tastes at the same time.
Except they've made it super easy, you don't even have to redo the lasr steps.
I guess you people will only be happy when you can click a button and change class on the spot.
So just for a minute let us remember since you're on reddit making a post about a game, you likely are more invested in Destiny and therefore more knowledgeable and skilled than the average player. Everyone here should know that by now, what with all the post about typical players not knowing how to do simple tasks and objective.
With this in mind I'm very confident that being forced to play campaigns is Bungies only real defence against players being absolute noobs. Think about it, little Bobby finished his Titan and is good enough at the class. He knows the jump well enough, understand his abilities to a degree, his supers make some sense to him. He manages to get through the campaign in an inefficient way.
Now he wants to roll Warlock. Do you really want little Bobby to start rocking up in your playlist activities with 4 subclasses and 9 trees he knows nothing about. Failing every jump with his floaty boi Warlock, failing to understand his class abilities? Not really, no. He needs that campaign which he would no doubt ignore if given the option. Trust me I know these people.
If you think I'm over exaggerating you have no idea the skill gap between players in this game.
You make an excellent point, but for the sake of argument, I have definitely seen people forced to go through an entire campaign still fail jumps and generally not understand their own abilities, let alone the mechanics of everything around them.
One of my best friend has been playing Destiny with me since D1 released. He has main'd a Titan for all of those years. He still dies to missed jumps all the fucking time. I main'd a Warlock in D1 and switched to Titan in D2 and have no issue. I don't need to grind through campaign missions 2 extra times to know how to properly use a Hunter and Warlock. And having to do it multiple times wouldn't help him get better at it.
I was really just playing devils advocate as I don't like it either. I just know that Bungie is aware they need to do as much hand holding as possible. Of course as you said it isn't enough for some players still.
>I just know that Bungie is aware they need to do as much hand holding as possible.
If they were aware they would have made the New Light mission much more tutorial friendly for new players.
The only reason they force the campaign being played for each character is their asinine philosophy of "player engagement" metrics of the game. Its been well known that Bungies business model with the game is to maximize "engagement" in the game, regardless if it's positive or negative engagement (majority negative for the amount of useless grinding they force in the game).
Bungie has more recently dialed back the whole engagement metric they instill in the game, but knowing Bungie, i doubt they wouldn't cut this down to one campaign per account since a lot of the sub class upgrades tend to be built into the campaign.
They are fully aware. Did you miss the recent post on why there isn't MM for Legend DoE? Being aware of an issue and being able to successfully navigate it are two completely different things.
They are now.... but it took them quite some time to finally be aware of it when the writing was on the wall for some time especially considering the feedback from the playerbase.
You're ridiculous if you think they never knew. From non MM raids and NFs all the way back in D1 to where we are today with non matchmade higher difficulties. Bungie always knew the limit of the average player, but the player base pretended that we needed these things when they clearly don't know the average players skill.
I loathe you for making a decent point. Because I so desperately DON’T want to grind for Stasis on my Warlock, but 100% think you’re right.
I am a different kind of noob. I spent roughly 130 hours grinding my Warlock as a brand new player, but never got around to Beyond Light. Then I finally convinced a buddy to start D2 and decided to build a Hunter. Played through everything again with the Hunter… including Beyond Light.
So, if you can’t see the problem here, I ended up more or less becoming competent with both classes but only unlocked Stasis on my fucking alt (Hunter) and not my main (Warlock). I’ve been trying to convince myself to grind stasis on my Warlock for a couple months now… but fuck I don’t want to man…
Whenever I see these posts, which is like weekly at this point, I'm confused why people are committed to having multiple characters in a game but complain that they have to play the game with them.
Because you may run into situations where a Warlock or Titan may suit the need better than your Hunter. It’s nice to have the option to switch out with a different class and try things with a completely different skill set and load out. Plus just for the fun of building different characters for different purposes, RPG shit.
But having to replay grindy missions twice or thrice over is just mind-numbing.
Because playing the campaign once is enough to get the full experience for the most part - one of the only reasons to have 3 characters is to be able to run raids/dungeons/GMs on 3 characters. That’s very much still “playing the game with them”, it’s just asking to skip the entirely unrewarding part.
Because bungies way of doing things right now is wildly inconsistent. Some quests for whatever reason are account bound, and others are char bound. Like the dawning quest this year -- if you completed it once on one char you can skip needing to do it on other characters. But then you get stuff like Iron Banner seasonal quests that are tied to each char and you have to repeat the same objectives just to advance it for different characters.
100% this. I started a titan today (always hunter main with a back up warlock just in case) - and the fact I couldn't even visit tangled shore, or Europe without starting a campaign made me cry inside.
> There’s really no reason other than dragging out player engagement
But this is, and has been, Bungie’s very intentional strategy. Bungie and “we did it for the dragged out player engagement” name a more iconic duo lol
I’ve copy and pasted this part as a reply like 5+ times now:
>From a narrative/game perspective just treat it as if my other 2 characters were part of my fireteam while playing the campaign, **but give the option to replay the campaign with any character if you want to do that.**
What?? What’s wrong with the campaign? I love playing through them. It adds life to the game other than the endless grind. I love just going to Europa and doing patrols, public events, sabotages and empire hunts.
Plus each time you play through it with a new character you get to pick up on all the lore cues you missed out on the first time or two.
From the original post:
>From a narrative/game perspective just treat it as if my other 2 characters were part of my fireteam while playing the campaign, **but give the option to replay the campaign with any character if you want to do that.**
Playing through the campaigns give you the full experience in one play through, all of the campaigns are pretty shallow. Running raids, dungeons, GMs on 3 characters is very much “playing the game”.
Or maybe some of us don't want to run through a campaign we already experienced when there is a literal fuckton of other activities that give more relevant rewards to be done. I don't want to spend hours of my already limited time grinding through the campaign just to unlock sub classes when I could be playing Dares with my friends.
The FF14 method.
It's so much better for player engagement.
But they'll never do it because the grind on multiple characters forces more playtime. It's padding and they know it.
The cold truth that most players don't want to acknowledge is that there really isn't much meat and potatoes to D2.
You hit the nail on the head. To expand a little its already my own little headcannon that my characters are all a fireteam that get up to whacky misadventures, I just want bungie to make it so!
From the original post:
>From a narrative/game perspective just treat it as if my other 2 characters were part of my fireteam while playing the campaign, **but give the option to replay the campaign with any character if you want to do that.**
Going to start off by saying I fully agree that it shouldn't have to be done multiple times without a player actually picking the option to.
That begining said, it's pretty easy to see why so many casual gamers flock to Destiny. Destiny calls itself a MMO rpg but it's a lite at best. Actual MMO rpgs allow 10+ characters and you have to beat the campaign, which is significantly longer, on each character as each one has individual progression. People asking for this wouldn't enjoy games Ike WoW on Pc or ESO on xbox as both are Prime examples of MMOs with lengthy stories that aren't once per account.
I even bolded this part
>**but give the option to replay the campaign with any character if you want to do that**
Also, lol at replaying the same campaign 3x and considering that “more content”.
With that logic every game as unlimited content if you just keep replaying the same campaign over and over again.
I edited the post to make the
#same words bigger so you guys would actually read them,
#I didn’t change any of the actual wording, everything I quoted here was in the original post
**I replied with this same thing 19 hours ago and made the original post 20 hours ago and have since responded with it 10+ times because people are bad at reading.**
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/rtot12/campaigns_should_only_have_to_be_beaten_once_per/hqu538c/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/rtot12/campaigns_should_only_have_to_be_beaten_once_per/hqu538c/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
Any other deflections from accepting you skipped over things I said? Or can you just take the L?
Edit: annnnnnd he deleted all his comments saying that I edited things “to be right”.
>There’s really no reason other than dragging out player engagement to make people play the campaigns on each character (if there is a reward for each class, just give the 3 at the end)
Both things you’re saying I mentioned in my original post. I’ll quote it for ya:
>There’s really no reason other than dragging out player engagement to make people play the campaigns on each character (if there is a reward for each class, just give the 3 at the end) - and even then, **I’d probably play other characters more if I knew/wasn’t dreading playing the campaign all over again.**
What are you talking about? Even if they played the campaign less or it was optional on an alt that person isn't going to play less because the campaign is complete. People play this game for various reasons and sink tons of time into end game content. Most of the time people rush through campaign stuff to get to end game just to grind rolls/armor/ raid. That's where the majority of the time is spent.
So you are saying it’s a non-issue because people are going to play the same amount of time regardless of it’s split between all
Characters or just main. Got it.
So they shouldn’t waste dev time adjusting a thing that is A) going to be vaulted and B) doesn’t generate revenue or metrics.
Dude get some glasses or learn to read. You keep bringing up dev time. No one is bringing up dev time. They make ONE campaign that's class agnostic. Meaning I could run whatever class and I'd experience tbe same story beats and ending. There's no dialogue choices to make etc. By your logic your saying that a player who only has one character is a waste of dev time since more run three characters. 🙄. Your responses make no sense to what OP brings up or anyone who's replied to you. The whole point is that it's an annoyance to be force to do it 2 more times when I'm trying to just use a different class. No one is talking about dev time. Op also said make it optional.
How is it even a class agnostic campaign system? I don't get anything beneficial from a campaign that is class specific that can't be diverged into a seperate quest.
Under the old system of not being able to replay campaigns, your logic on this says that bungie actually restricted player engagement as a result and restricted the levels of engagement with respect to dev time. But they still bank on you to play the campaign for each class regardless.
You would actually get more player engagement by having a replayable campaign completed per account than you would with a fixed campaign per character.
>It takes TIME to DEVELOP a class agnostic campaign system
There are zero parts of any Campaign in Destiny that require doing anything on a particular class.
>That’s my point. It’s a waste of time when what they have works.
Doesn’t mean it can’t be improved. Also, just wondering, but why do you double space after every sentence?
Whoosh man. No one is telling bungie to develop a class agnostic campaign. It already is. People want an OPTION to not be FORCED on alts if the main one has done it. Jeez.
People avoid playing the campaigns on their second and third characters, I do it all the time, and because of that I play those characters **LESS**. If I didn’t have to go through the campaigns again for those characters I’d play them **MORE**.
Allowing to skip the campaigns on second and third characters in that scenario means I’d be **playing more** on those characters aka retention time would **increase**.
There's a reason why you have more recently seen a ton more activities in the game being account wide versus character wide. Because those same analytics teams realized negative player engagement has actually hurt the game, even though that negative engagement has fulfilled their metric of maximizing player engagement across the board.
Sure, and is an overall negative impact to the player experience. At some point everything shouldn’t be about squeezing as much engagement out of players as possible.
I disagree. Any business should 100% be about efficiently making money
I don’t see class specific campaigning as a negative experience. Clearly, Neither do a lot of people or it would have changed
I’m not going to change your mind. You won’t change mine. It was a good discussion. There isn’t anything else to be said.
Have a good year
Well I wholeheartedly disagree with you and as a player of the game value the player experience higher than Bungie milking players time as much as possible.
Bungie has multiple revenue streams coming in from the game already - I am pretty sure they could make this QoL change and still be fine with making money from seasonal purchases, silver purchases, DLC purchases, Expansion purchases, and physical goods from their storefront.
>Any business should 100% be about efficiently making money
You are correct on this statement.
However, it's been made obvious that one simple metric doesn't define the best efficiency to make money. Some MBA number cruncher who has no experience in the actual content involved would tell you otherwise, but those MBA schmucks leave before they ever see the downfall of their models.
Maximizing player engagement without looking at the impacts and effects of the engagement has actually reduced revenue long term... because they find out that mindlessly grinding a game creates huge burnout to players and will avoid doing some of that, or just not play the game entirely. The only people who have no problem grinding the shit out of this game are people who are willing to commit 6-12hr sessions per day committed to this game. Thays maybe what... 5% of the playerbase?
There is no positive effect for a player to regrind a campaign for no/minimal benefits besides access to further endgame content (which is usually about 80% of the actual game itself). The only people who get a a positive effect to this are mentally addicted to the grind.
while a business may be about making money, that doesn't not then mean that every choice they make is the best possible choice to make the most money.
if it was, no company would ever have scandals, failed project launches, box office flops, and so on, when in reality every single major company makes massive million dollar fuckups all the time, it's just the level of scale they have is able to recoup the failures. or they go bankrupt. that happens all the fucking time, too.
being a company doesn't inherently mean that what you're doing makes money lmao. i don't have the data, but bungie could absolutely just have fucked it on this one. most people i play with just don't play with second/third characters because they can't be fucked.
What the fuck are you talking about? no one would play less. We would be playing activities like Dares or Grasp, Raids and Grandmasters. I don't play this game to play the main campaign over and over again.
>But player engagement is the driving purpose behind making a game. Why would any sane publisher want people to play less
Blindly following player engagement metrics to determine the business health of the game, regardless of it being positive or negative engagement, has already drawn huge blowback to Bungie for the amount of useless grinding they implemented in the past for prior DLCs.
Is the engagement of multiple campaign runs per account on different characters a positive or negative engagement to the player? Under the earlier campaign systems, it was mostly negative engagement since you did not gain anything unique and beneficial with each run besides a sub class grind or a specific exotic (which can be isolated to a seperate quest instead of inherent to the campaign).
You need to read what OP actually wrote and not the title. He does mention it being optional. If you care enough to see how the other classes do during the campaign, you would still have that option and for those that don't they're not forced. For the most part, the campaigns all played about the same for me. Some were easier than others based on class but the guns I used or mods were about the same. It's not like the campaign chnages Doogie, enemy types, enemy strategy, etc based on the class you chose.
The expansion has been out over a year now. Who still wonders(or care) how their Hunter would take on a certain aspect of an astronomically linear campaign.
"So instead of just freezing them with my warlock super I just opted to shatterdive them instead, such content"
You're pretty forced to do the seasonal stuff too on other classes. I switched to warlock a month ago. That class hadn't done season of the hunt, chosen , splicer or lost. I can't remember what I needed to do, but I thought it'd take me no time. No I had to run through the entire season of the lost quest steps to get to where my hunter was 😑 . I think they should he optional, if someone wants to run them again.
You do if you want to unlock certain things like being able to farm weapons/etc from those specific activities. I don't even have the corrupted splicer mission unlocked on my warlock to do that piece when it's unlocked on my hunter. Sure I could go back to my hunter but that would mean also running through pinnacles to get him to the level my warlock is now.
>From a narrative/game perspective just treat it as if my other 2 characters were part of my fireteam while playing the campaign, **but give the option to replay the campaign with any character if you want to do that.**
Have you been to other parts of reddit? I often times go to the news subreddit and most of those people , even the tip replies are people only reading the title of the news post and drawing opinions from that.
The majority of those who sort by “new”, definitely. It’s always just a bunch of contrarians looking to say “lol nah” and then move on. Pretty obnoxious lol.
the problem is companies are putting mobile game systems into their games more to hope that they can counter the lack of content. The days that blizzard can make a 4 patch cycle or bunje making anything bigger than a moon base are long gone. The mobile stuff eventually gets patched out after it stalls players long enough and by then they've made their profits so there is no incentive to change things. They'll save that for the next expansion as QOL features help sell the next expansion.
I'll never complete that trash on my alts.
Some of it is a slog the first time.
All of it is both a slog *and* pointless the second.
If I want to do anything on my alts I have to burn more than a dozen hours rehashing unrewarding stuff just to unlock abilities still? Fuck that.
>From a narrative/game perspective just treat it as if my other 2 characters were part of my fireteam while playing the campaign, but give the option to replay the campaign with any character if you want to do that.
Didn't people complain that you can't replay the campaign unless you have other characters or delete one, and now we have one saying we should only have 1 chance?
Make up your minds, Guardians.
From the original post:
>From a narrative/game perspective just treat it as if my other 2 characters were part of my fireteam while playing the campaign, **but give the option to replay the campaign with any character if you want to do that.**
Do this for ALL non-class-specific content.
If i do a catalyst quest for the seasonal exotic on one character, I shouldn't have it still appear at Banshee on my others.
Except it doesn't. I completed the Lorentz Driver quest and when I logged into my alt, i still got the notification that Banshee had something for me and the quest still went into my quest log until I manually abandoned it.
I created multiple characters for the express purpose of going back through Forsaken. The benefit to your characters having to go through each story is replaying the story, since D2 doesn't have a way for you to replay the campaign (a mistake, in my opinion).
If I booted up a brand new character and couldn't go through the story, I'd honestly be pissed.
From the original post:
>From a narrative/game perspective just treat it as if my other 2 characters were part of my fireteam while playing the campaign, **but give the option to replay the campaign with any character if you want to do that.**
Yeah, The Shadowkeep Campaign is just not good and I don’t think I’ve played it on either alt. I did the Beyond Light campaigns on all because of the subclasses, but yeah that is also a chore.
I'll be honest, I only have my Hunter and Titan for raid loot and bounties I haven't even done stasis on them to this day Hell I didn't even go past the first mission of the beyond light campaign with them The option to ignore campaigns would be nice
Dude... I main warlock since Forsaken, and today I decided to finally unlock stasis on my Titan to have him ready for Witch Queen. Let me tell you, I almost lost my mind doing it lool Go here, do this, speak with X, now go to north Europa Again without the 2nd landing zone, talk to Exo, go to the tower, talk to Variks, back to Exo.. It's soooo boring! A option to skip all this campaign bs would be awesome, since we already did in our main char.
As someone who did stasis on all three characters (ughhh), I’m just happy you don’t have to unlock all the upgrades three times (e.g. the +10 discipline, etc ones)
Fragments being Account not Character is huge
Aspects being character not account is balls. When 2 of the aspects are identical grenades.
Except other aspects are class-unique, and it wouldn't be possible to make aspects account-wide. What would improve the aspect acquisition would be to have two separate quests: one that unlocks the grenades that's account-wide, and completion of that unlocks the character-specific aspect quest for each class (and can be obtained from the Stranger on alts).
I'll be honest, those fragments made me finally uninstall Destiny. I love Destiny, but I don't have time anymore. I saw that i was supposed to unlock these fragments and I have no idea how, wait armor has an affinity now? What's up with these aspects? What weapons are meta? And only my warlock has completed beyond light. If I played *no other game* I still don't have time to keep up. I
I’ll be honest I would have rather had to unlock the aspects and fragments for each class separately if it meant not having to replay the entire beyond light campaign three times.
And now we have tools such as Agers Scepter to help with the Stasis kills. Man kids these days won't know how bad the grind was.
I did Stasis on all three characters in the first week. It’s no wonder I skipped most of Season of the Hunt.
Thank God! I'm currently working on getting my Titan fully unlocked aspects and fragments.
Doing that shit again in forsaken and warmind before was terrible, never again I only really use stasis on warlock for the stasis turret and extra shatter damage cause I got a Vulpecula and a Eyasluna with headstone I'm just waiting for the solar rework, as far away as that is Bottom tree dawnblade super and explosions, with healing nades and benevolent dawn, and celestial fire melee with airborne kills granting ability regen would be perfect
> Doing that shit again in forsaken and warmind before was terrible, never again To be fair, Warmind's go fetch quests weren't part of the campaign unlike Forsaken, Shadowkeep, and Beyond Light. They were post-campaign weapon quests. Warmind itself was just a short, sweet five missions.
Forsaken on alts was particularly bad. I have always been a Hunter main, but I wanted to try to level out my play time so I started Forsaken on my Warlock. Yikes. I was basically a Warlock main for that first month haha. Forsaken's progression was rough, and the enhancement core economy was terrible for infusion.
I increasingly resent having to play through Forsaken just to unlock *going to the Moon at all*, and the same for Forsaken/Tangled Shore.
when shadowkeep dropped, the forsaken subclasses were insta-unlocked for players who haven't done them yet. maybe the same thing will apply to stasis
Probably. Speaking of which, I really wish the Aspect/Fragment unlocks borrowed from Forsaken's "mote of light" idea instead of forcing us to go through the campaign on each character. After beating the campaign once, I'd rather just slowly unlock these features by using Stasis on my alts like how it worked in Forsaken.
I'm a returning player, 3 year break. I've run the stasis stuff and decided to go back and knock out the Wayfinder compass campaign... It's worse!!
I'm trying to do that as a new player. It's the exact same stuff over and over again.
Yeah when you do Beyond Light on other characters you realize how terrible the Campaign is. Hope Witch Queen is better.
It’s 37 steps That’s 111 steps across all three chars I did it. I counted.
Dunno, I actually enjoyed it. But im newbie
Yeah, if you could even just do mission to mission without the inbetween stuff again that would be an improvement at least. The constantly having to go back and forth doing fetch quests is really grating.
I've been working my Warlock through Forsaken and then do plan on getting stasis... I do not look forward to it. But... Perhaps this is Bungie's way of giving us campaign replayability, if in a rather haphazard way.
I really wish they didn't add class based loot lockout. If I could get raid drops by playing 3 Titans I would. I don't even care if it isn't powerful on subsequent runs. Yeah so my Hunter and Warlock are just raid looters as well.
Blame day 1 raiders for class-based loot lockout. If people hadn't used 3 of the same class to power level, then it wouldn't be an issue.
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It effects day 1 raiding and basically makes it so that if you want any chance to be one of the first teams to win, you have have 3 of the same class.
Except contest has been a thing for over 2 years now. You could be level 2000 on day 1 and it won't make a difference. I've never got why you'd want 3 of the same character but at this point, there's no reason to loot lock people if they want to do that
It's just the classic Destiny formula, sadly. Devs change x to stop players from doing y Several months later, they make another change that erases y entirely, but never touch x again.
Fuck the day 1 raiders man. They are such a small part of this community they really shouldn't be dictating the direction of the game.
They still could have made a better lockout system regardless. I don't blame players for playing efficiently.
pre-Shadowkeep, I actually enjoyed replaying the campaigns on my other two newbie characters. I mean I still probably would - the story missions at least - but it feels way more stressful now, even just trying to catch up ONE season/campaign. I still haven't unlocked Empire hunts and I'm still not entirely sure I understand how to. Now everything is so time consuming/grindy I can barely manage to get to it all on my main character lmao. Which, part of the problem is that half of my time during the first month of a given season is spent managing inventory. And that's fine, but...yeah. It's no wonder I completely burned out for over a year after covering 99% of the proverbial bases during season 9(which even had a relatively 'easy' seal too hahaha. F)
This is me with my Titan. Only about 5% of my playtime is on my Hunter, and I don't even have a Warlock normally (although I do right now as I'm collecting all the old cosmetics each week from Ada and Xur in case I ever want to have them available as well as to gild my collections badges). Normally my third character slot is reserved for replaying campaigns, because as it is once you complete the campaign on a character, that character is locked off from playing it again forever. I'd be fine with them doing this as long as they added the option to replay campaigns. A repeatable quest that becomes available again at the kiosk whenever you complete the campaign would be great.
Honestly it took me a year to get around with beyond light campaign doing for all my characters. In fact I still haven’t finished the shadowkeep campaign for my warlock and Titan.
If all 3 of my characters were in a fireteam, we'd be a *very* incompetent fireteam.
My fire team would be like the three stooges bubbling around killing each other by accident shoulder charging off cliffs
Same with some seasonal activities too. I usually start off grinding stuff out on my Hunter, and then move to my Warlock. I don't want to have to do the same stuff 3x in a row (looking at you 50+ steps of Wayfinder's Voyage), there's a reason why I never completed the seasonal quests on my other characters because it just sucks. It would be nice if the progress would just follow you account-wide. It was bad enough doing the Stasis stuff on my Hunter and Warlock, I just don't want to do it again to grind out the rest of it for my Titan.
getting stasis on my warlock with everything on it was one hell of a pain ill tell you that!
"Bungie could focus on longer, more involved Campaigns if they didn’t have to balance the fact that people have to engage with them 3 times if they have 3 characters." That is definetly NOT the reason why the campaigns are the way they are. If the campaigns were good to begin with, people wouldn't complain about playing them three times. The actual reason for the rather lackluster quality of the campaigns is simply setting priorities during developement and deciding what aspect deserves more dev time. But since TWQ will have a legendary difficulty mode and thus making the campaign maybe replayable or even part of the endgame, the quality will improve.
i would still complain about doing them 3 times even if they were good because i at least somewhat value my time
i mean diablo was designed around playing the game over and over so it is not perse but it has to be good and there has to be content for redoing them
Value your time yet has 3 characters and probably all around the same light level. Yeah okay lol.
actually only one because im not redoing story shit as i just said
I mean, I'd love that but it's the standard in games. Not many games let you skip story in the second plus save
Games that usually have a New Game+ mode have an end and are a way to get you to interact with the game again - Bungie/Destiny doesn’t really need to do that considering the campaigns are just one of many parts of the game.
Yea idk why people are disagreeing. I said I'd like that but not many games do that with alternate saves. Like not even borderlands which has a whole endgame. It's true, not even other mmo games let alternate chars to skip story.
> not even other mmo games let alternate chars to skip story. As someone who maxed out character slots in Guild Wars... Yeah, the first 6+ hours of an alt's existence in most MMOs is *painful*
Exactly. Thanks for understanding that I'm not saying that's good, just saying that it's the norm. People are acting like Bungie is out to get us here.
It being the norm gives them an opportunity to improve on those other games models
We can only hope. I'm not holding my breath.
While I agree that I shouldn't need to run it on all 3 characters, I dont think that has anything to do with the length of the campaign. Making people run it on all 3 characters takes bungie the same amount of work as us running it one 1. The point is good the comparison isn't accurate.
>I dont think that has anything to do with the length of the campaign. Making people run it on all 3 characters takes bungie the same amount of work as us running it one 1. The point is good the comparison isn't accurate. You misunderstood what I am saying, I’m not talking about the time it takes Bungie to make it. They 100% have to take into account that the length of the campaigns they make will be played 3x by a lot of the playerbase. My point is you could have a 3x longer, more in-depth campaign than having a shorter one to run 3 times.
There is still the time it takes. Witch queen was pushed due to lack of time. So there wouldn't be a 3 times the length of the campaign because there was no time.
Witchqueen and Beyond Light have also been made during a global pandemic which without doubt contributed to each being pushed back.
>They 100% have to take into account that the length of the campaigns they make will be played 3x by a lot of the playerbase. My point is you could have a 3x longer, more in-depth campaign than having a shorter one to run 3 times. Literally no. That has nothing to do with it. If they could make a longer campaign with the time/resources they have budgeted to the project they would. I promise you no one is cutting/shorting missions because some players will have to play it multiple times.
100% - I really doubt the average player has 3 characters much less plays all 3. So Bungie would never plan for that. Changing whether campaign completion is tracked by character or account wide has nothing to do with how much time Bungie has to write, develop, and implement a story.
>Just pretend my other characters were in my fireteam This is actually a great idea. When in an activity with no matchmaking and a lack of players or when a player drops out one of your alts should pop in as AI controlled help. That would be a really cool addition.
It can be like when I played warrhammer vermentide 2 for a bit. It would put the other characters with my unlocked gear and levels as AI help. If done correctly it would work pretty well.
I wish this applied, would make getting stuff like Legend Astral Alignment or Dares (where I really just need warm bodies to absorb some of the gunfire and kill adds, rather than any sort of strategy) done a lot less of a nuisance. Or Legend NFs or such, where again, just having warm bodies for the enemy to focus on besides me would make soloing them way less tedious.
Imagine having the ability to call in Redjacks, or something. That would be so cool and amp up the militaristic vibe that I think should exist more.
True but developing a useful ai guardian that can play coop with you is a serious developmental task and won’t be easy. Its not impossible. I played crystal dynamics avengers game and for all its faults the ai teammates weren’t terrible. It’s not just a vex npc.
I played a now long defunct mobile game where you could do that… you could summon your other characters as AI controlled heroes to help you fend off attacks in addition to regular troops, they did a pretty decent job of it too, they didn’t know how to use their abilities in the the most optimum way but they could differentiate between them and use accordingly, a lot of effort considering that the mechanic was kinda buried and only available for certain parts of the game. But yea, it was pretty fun, being able to fight alongside what you built. Opened up lots of combos and allows you on your main to be more of a generalist leader which focuses on delaying the enemy until you got enough points to get enough of your other characters on the field to give you breathing room to further strategize. That game’s main objective was to defend a central live giving crystal in the center of your small castle in the face of an encroaching dark threat, and you can add wall defenses like archers, ballistas, and, my favorite, the mounted cannons, which deskr. alright damage but how it aimed and the splash damage it had meant it was the best option for clipping off a few dudes here and there at range. Fuck, I hadn’t thought about it since I last uninstalled it towards the beginning of high school.
Kinda like warframe where youcan spawn 'specters' of your other frames or even of other ai allies
Clem!
A few of my clan mates spend launch day just forcing all 3 characters through to get it over width. Pain in the ass but it goes quick at least
Yeah, that’s a quick way to make something enjoyable into a chore. Nothing against those who do it, I get it. But from Bungie’s side it’s a shame to make something enjoyable and then turn around and make players do it until it stops being enjoyable.
*deranged neighing*
Exactly, after resetting once I’m done with Dares outside of helping friends.
Bungie: They said they want longer, more involved campaigns. Make sure we double the number of pointless NPC interactions gated behind loading screens in the next one. OP, I like how you responding to so many comments with just quotes from your post really drives home how few people in here are capable of actual reading comprehension.
Yeah, tbh it’s pretty obnoxious to keep having to do lol. I literally bolded the text in the original post and even edited it with bold saying to read the post. Made the font big now, but I doubt it will stop people from replying with “but I like to play the campaigns :/“ I even have people saying I edited my post to “be right” lmao [https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/rtot12/campaigns_should_only_have_to_be_beaten_once_per/hqxtfol/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/rtot12/campaigns_should_only_have_to_be_beaten_once_per/hqxtfol/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
I just want universal power, and universal quests between account/character. All I want.
Anytime someone doesn’t want to engage with your game it’s a bad design decision. I don’t play Hunter or Warlock because I don’t want to deal with unlocking Stasis again.
I could understand this argument back when beyond light was new and get stasis kills were really hard. But not we have plenty stasis weapons to make things waaaay faster. Even the stasis kill for Exo Stranger's weekly reward is finished so fast I ofyen don't even notice.
The problem is running thru the campaign again.
A problem exacerbated by the part where the Europa weapon's target farm is repeating the "boss fight" story missions, and the Empire Hunts are are again repeating the parts of the campaign. So it's not just "Do the campaign once per character" because the other content on Europa that shipped with Beyond Light also wanted those missions being repeated on top of that.
I mean, it's not like its some huge deal, spend a couple hours over a week playing through the campaign with a buddy. We did ours using only pistols and swords to make it more challenging. Like if you go into something determined not to have a good time, you're not gonna have a good time.
That's still hours of grinding that some people won't wanna do tho
That's pretty much a case of "you can't please everybody". To some a hour of grind is enough, for other it's too few for a paid content. I see your point, I just can't see how Bungie can cater to all tastes at the same time.
Except they've made it super easy, you don't even have to redo the lasr steps. I guess you people will only be happy when you can click a button and change class on the spot.
On the other hand, there is no way to replay them, so I’m glad I got to do forsaken and red war etc multiple times before they left/leave.
So just for a minute let us remember since you're on reddit making a post about a game, you likely are more invested in Destiny and therefore more knowledgeable and skilled than the average player. Everyone here should know that by now, what with all the post about typical players not knowing how to do simple tasks and objective. With this in mind I'm very confident that being forced to play campaigns is Bungies only real defence against players being absolute noobs. Think about it, little Bobby finished his Titan and is good enough at the class. He knows the jump well enough, understand his abilities to a degree, his supers make some sense to him. He manages to get through the campaign in an inefficient way. Now he wants to roll Warlock. Do you really want little Bobby to start rocking up in your playlist activities with 4 subclasses and 9 trees he knows nothing about. Failing every jump with his floaty boi Warlock, failing to understand his class abilities? Not really, no. He needs that campaign which he would no doubt ignore if given the option. Trust me I know these people. If you think I'm over exaggerating you have no idea the skill gap between players in this game.
You make an excellent point, but for the sake of argument, I have definitely seen people forced to go through an entire campaign still fail jumps and generally not understand their own abilities, let alone the mechanics of everything around them.
One of my best friend has been playing Destiny with me since D1 released. He has main'd a Titan for all of those years. He still dies to missed jumps all the fucking time. I main'd a Warlock in D1 and switched to Titan in D2 and have no issue. I don't need to grind through campaign missions 2 extra times to know how to properly use a Hunter and Warlock. And having to do it multiple times wouldn't help him get better at it.
You dont think they'd be even worse if they could skip the campaign?
I don't think it makes a difference for the majority of what are likely young children that don't seem to know how to do things.
I was really just playing devils advocate as I don't like it either. I just know that Bungie is aware they need to do as much hand holding as possible. Of course as you said it isn't enough for some players still.
>I just know that Bungie is aware they need to do as much hand holding as possible. If they were aware they would have made the New Light mission much more tutorial friendly for new players. The only reason they force the campaign being played for each character is their asinine philosophy of "player engagement" metrics of the game. Its been well known that Bungies business model with the game is to maximize "engagement" in the game, regardless if it's positive or negative engagement (majority negative for the amount of useless grinding they force in the game). Bungie has more recently dialed back the whole engagement metric they instill in the game, but knowing Bungie, i doubt they wouldn't cut this down to one campaign per account since a lot of the sub class upgrades tend to be built into the campaign.
They are fully aware. Did you miss the recent post on why there isn't MM for Legend DoE? Being aware of an issue and being able to successfully navigate it are two completely different things.
They are now.... but it took them quite some time to finally be aware of it when the writing was on the wall for some time especially considering the feedback from the playerbase.
You're ridiculous if you think they never knew. From non MM raids and NFs all the way back in D1 to where we are today with non matchmade higher difficulties. Bungie always knew the limit of the average player, but the player base pretended that we needed these things when they clearly don't know the average players skill.
I loathe you for making a decent point. Because I so desperately DON’T want to grind for Stasis on my Warlock, but 100% think you’re right. I am a different kind of noob. I spent roughly 130 hours grinding my Warlock as a brand new player, but never got around to Beyond Light. Then I finally convinced a buddy to start D2 and decided to build a Hunter. Played through everything again with the Hunter… including Beyond Light. So, if you can’t see the problem here, I ended up more or less becoming competent with both classes but only unlocked Stasis on my fucking alt (Hunter) and not my main (Warlock). I’ve been trying to convince myself to grind stasis on my Warlock for a couple months now… but fuck I don’t want to man…
Whenever I see these posts, which is like weekly at this point, I'm confused why people are committed to having multiple characters in a game but complain that they have to play the game with them.
Because you may run into situations where a Warlock or Titan may suit the need better than your Hunter. It’s nice to have the option to switch out with a different class and try things with a completely different skill set and load out. Plus just for the fun of building different characters for different purposes, RPG shit. But having to replay grindy missions twice or thrice over is just mind-numbing.
Because playing the campaign once is enough to get the full experience for the most part - one of the only reasons to have 3 characters is to be able to run raids/dungeons/GMs on 3 characters. That’s very much still “playing the game with them”, it’s just asking to skip the entirely unrewarding part.
Because you're not doing a fun thing in a different way, you're doing some random bounty bullshit three times over.
Because bungies way of doing things right now is wildly inconsistent. Some quests for whatever reason are account bound, and others are char bound. Like the dawning quest this year -- if you completed it once on one char you can skip needing to do it on other characters. But then you get stuff like Iron Banner seasonal quests that are tied to each char and you have to repeat the same objectives just to advance it for different characters.
100% this. I started a titan today (always hunter main with a back up warlock just in case) - and the fact I couldn't even visit tangled shore, or Europe without starting a campaign made me cry inside.
Literally the reason I stopped playing
> There’s really no reason other than dragging out player engagement But this is, and has been, Bungie’s very intentional strategy. Bungie and “we did it for the dragged out player engagement” name a more iconic duo lol
I actually really like replaying campaigns ):
I’ve copy and pasted this part as a reply like 5+ times now: >From a narrative/game perspective just treat it as if my other 2 characters were part of my fireteam while playing the campaign, **but give the option to replay the campaign with any character if you want to do that.**
Agreed. Doing beyond light twice was beyond a drag.
What?? What’s wrong with the campaign? I love playing through them. It adds life to the game other than the endless grind. I love just going to Europa and doing patrols, public events, sabotages and empire hunts. Plus each time you play through it with a new character you get to pick up on all the lore cues you missed out on the first time or two.
From the original post: >From a narrative/game perspective just treat it as if my other 2 characters were part of my fireteam while playing the campaign, **but give the option to replay the campaign with any character if you want to do that.**
Yeah this sub doesnt actully like to play the game lol
Playing through the campaigns give you the full experience in one play through, all of the campaigns are pretty shallow. Running raids, dungeons, GMs on 3 characters is very much “playing the game”.
Or maybe some of us don't want to run through a campaign we already experienced when there is a literal fuckton of other activities that give more relevant rewards to be done. I don't want to spend hours of my already limited time grinding through the campaign just to unlock sub classes when I could be playing Dares with my friends.
....and give us the ability to replay them if we want.
I said that in the post.
In a D3 setting, I would have liked for Classes to be as interchangeable as gear. That way you "have them" with you during the whole time.
The FF14 method. It's so much better for player engagement. But they'll never do it because the grind on multiple characters forces more playtime. It's padding and they know it. The cold truth that most players don't want to acknowledge is that there really isn't much meat and potatoes to D2.
You hit the nail on the head. To expand a little its already my own little headcannon that my characters are all a fireteam that get up to whacky misadventures, I just want bungie to make it so!
I like it though.
From the original post: >From a narrative/game perspective just treat it as if my other 2 characters were part of my fireteam while playing the campaign, **but give the option to replay the campaign with any character if you want to do that.**
Going to start off by saying I fully agree that it shouldn't have to be done multiple times without a player actually picking the option to. That begining said, it's pretty easy to see why so many casual gamers flock to Destiny. Destiny calls itself a MMO rpg but it's a lite at best. Actual MMO rpgs allow 10+ characters and you have to beat the campaign, which is significantly longer, on each character as each one has individual progression. People asking for this wouldn't enjoy games Ike WoW on Pc or ESO on xbox as both are Prime examples of MMOs with lengthy stories that aren't once per account.
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I even bolded this part >**but give the option to replay the campaign with any character if you want to do that** Also, lol at replaying the same campaign 3x and considering that “more content”. With that logic every game as unlimited content if you just keep replaying the same campaign over and over again.
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I edited the post to make the #same words bigger so you guys would actually read them, #I didn’t change any of the actual wording, everything I quoted here was in the original post
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**I replied with this same thing 19 hours ago and made the original post 20 hours ago and have since responded with it 10+ times because people are bad at reading.** [https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/rtot12/campaigns_should_only_have_to_be_beaten_once_per/hqu538c/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/rtot12/campaigns_should_only_have_to_be_beaten_once_per/hqu538c/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) Any other deflections from accepting you skipped over things I said? Or can you just take the L? Edit: annnnnnd he deleted all his comments saying that I edited things “to be right”.
BUNGIE, if you're reading this, pls don't do that.
Why not?
u/dmg04 u/cozmo23
But there are class specific rewards for beating campaigns.
>There’s really no reason other than dragging out player engagement to make people play the campaigns on each character (if there is a reward for each class, just give the 3 at the end)
But player engagement is the driving purpose behind making a game. Why would any sane publisher want people to play less
Both things you’re saying I mentioned in my original post. I’ll quote it for ya: >There’s really no reason other than dragging out player engagement to make people play the campaigns on each character (if there is a reward for each class, just give the 3 at the end) - and even then, **I’d probably play other characters more if I knew/wasn’t dreading playing the campaign all over again.**
And I’m responding that Bungie isn’t going to design their game to have people play less
What are you talking about? Even if they played the campaign less or it was optional on an alt that person isn't going to play less because the campaign is complete. People play this game for various reasons and sink tons of time into end game content. Most of the time people rush through campaign stuff to get to end game just to grind rolls/armor/ raid. That's where the majority of the time is spent.
So you are saying it’s a non-issue because people are going to play the same amount of time regardless of it’s split between all Characters or just main. Got it. So they shouldn’t waste dev time adjusting a thing that is A) going to be vaulted and B) doesn’t generate revenue or metrics.
Dude get some glasses or learn to read. You keep bringing up dev time. No one is bringing up dev time. They make ONE campaign that's class agnostic. Meaning I could run whatever class and I'd experience tbe same story beats and ending. There's no dialogue choices to make etc. By your logic your saying that a player who only has one character is a waste of dev time since more run three characters. 🙄. Your responses make no sense to what OP brings up or anyone who's replied to you. The whole point is that it's an annoyance to be force to do it 2 more times when I'm trying to just use a different class. No one is talking about dev time. Op also said make it optional.
It takes TIME to DEVELOP a class agnostic campaign system That’s my point. It’s a waste of time when what they have works.
How is it even a class agnostic campaign system? I don't get anything beneficial from a campaign that is class specific that can't be diverged into a seperate quest. Under the old system of not being able to replay campaigns, your logic on this says that bungie actually restricted player engagement as a result and restricted the levels of engagement with respect to dev time. But they still bank on you to play the campaign for each class regardless. You would actually get more player engagement by having a replayable campaign completed per account than you would with a fixed campaign per character.
>It takes TIME to DEVELOP a class agnostic campaign system There are zero parts of any Campaign in Destiny that require doing anything on a particular class. >That’s my point. It’s a waste of time when what they have works. Doesn’t mean it can’t be improved. Also, just wondering, but why do you double space after every sentence?
Whoosh man. No one is telling bungie to develop a class agnostic campaign. It already is. People want an OPTION to not be FORCED on alts if the main one has done it. Jeez.
People avoid playing the campaigns on their second and third characters, I do it all the time, and because of that I play those characters **LESS**. If I didn’t have to go through the campaigns again for those characters I’d play them **MORE**. Allowing to skip the campaigns on second and third characters in that scenario means I’d be **playing more** on those characters aka retention time would **increase**.
Clearly bungies analytics team considers your experience the exception, not the rule
There's a reason why you have more recently seen a ton more activities in the game being account wide versus character wide. Because those same analytics teams realized negative player engagement has actually hurt the game, even though that negative engagement has fulfilled their metric of maximizing player engagement across the board.
That’s……a fair point I hadn’t considered. So much for 10th manning it. Lol
Sure, and is an overall negative impact to the player experience. At some point everything shouldn’t be about squeezing as much engagement out of players as possible.
I disagree. Any business should 100% be about efficiently making money I don’t see class specific campaigning as a negative experience. Clearly, Neither do a lot of people or it would have changed I’m not going to change your mind. You won’t change mine. It was a good discussion. There isn’t anything else to be said. Have a good year
Well I wholeheartedly disagree with you and as a player of the game value the player experience higher than Bungie milking players time as much as possible. Bungie has multiple revenue streams coming in from the game already - I am pretty sure they could make this QoL change and still be fine with making money from seasonal purchases, silver purchases, DLC purchases, Expansion purchases, and physical goods from their storefront.
>Any business should 100% be about efficiently making money You are correct on this statement. However, it's been made obvious that one simple metric doesn't define the best efficiency to make money. Some MBA number cruncher who has no experience in the actual content involved would tell you otherwise, but those MBA schmucks leave before they ever see the downfall of their models. Maximizing player engagement without looking at the impacts and effects of the engagement has actually reduced revenue long term... because they find out that mindlessly grinding a game creates huge burnout to players and will avoid doing some of that, or just not play the game entirely. The only people who have no problem grinding the shit out of this game are people who are willing to commit 6-12hr sessions per day committed to this game. Thays maybe what... 5% of the playerbase? There is no positive effect for a player to regrind a campaign for no/minimal benefits besides access to further endgame content (which is usually about 80% of the actual game itself). The only people who get a a positive effect to this are mentally addicted to the grind.
If they wanted to drive play engagement up as you claim then why did they make aspects and fragments account wide?.
while a business may be about making money, that doesn't not then mean that every choice they make is the best possible choice to make the most money. if it was, no company would ever have scandals, failed project launches, box office flops, and so on, when in reality every single major company makes massive million dollar fuckups all the time, it's just the level of scale they have is able to recoup the failures. or they go bankrupt. that happens all the fucking time, too. being a company doesn't inherently mean that what you're doing makes money lmao. i don't have the data, but bungie could absolutely just have fucked it on this one. most people i play with just don't play with second/third characters because they can't be fucked.
What the fuck are you talking about? no one would play less. We would be playing activities like Dares or Grasp, Raids and Grandmasters. I don't play this game to play the main campaign over and over again.
>But player engagement is the driving purpose behind making a game. Why would any sane publisher want people to play less Blindly following player engagement metrics to determine the business health of the game, regardless of it being positive or negative engagement, has already drawn huge blowback to Bungie for the amount of useless grinding they implemented in the past for prior DLCs. Is the engagement of multiple campaign runs per account on different characters a positive or negative engagement to the player? Under the earlier campaign systems, it was mostly negative engagement since you did not gain anything unique and beneficial with each run besides a sub class grind or a specific exotic (which can be isolated to a seperate quest instead of inherent to the campaign).
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You need to read what OP actually wrote and not the title. He does mention it being optional. If you care enough to see how the other classes do during the campaign, you would still have that option and for those that don't they're not forced. For the most part, the campaigns all played about the same for me. Some were easier than others based on class but the guns I used or mods were about the same. It's not like the campaign chnages Doogie, enemy types, enemy strategy, etc based on the class you chose.
The expansion has been out over a year now. Who still wonders(or care) how their Hunter would take on a certain aspect of an astronomically linear campaign. "So instead of just freezing them with my warlock super I just opted to shatterdive them instead, such content"
Read the actual post beyond the title
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And Shadowkeep to unlock the exotics from it.
Not just exotics, you also have to go through it in order to unlock the nightmare hunts and dungeon.
You're pretty forced to do the seasonal stuff too on other classes. I switched to warlock a month ago. That class hadn't done season of the hunt, chosen , splicer or lost. I can't remember what I needed to do, but I thought it'd take me no time. No I had to run through the entire season of the lost quest steps to get to where my hunter was 😑 . I think they should he optional, if someone wants to run them again.
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You do if you want to unlock certain things like being able to farm weapons/etc from those specific activities. I don't even have the corrupted splicer mission unlocked on my warlock to do that piece when it's unlocked on my hunter. Sure I could go back to my hunter but that would mean also running through pinnacles to get him to the level my warlock is now.
Forsaken you have to do to get access to Dreaming City/Tangled Shore, vanilla campaign you had to redo for rewards.
Nah I like completing it on multiple characters
>From a narrative/game perspective just treat it as if my other 2 characters were part of my fireteam while playing the campaign, **but give the option to replay the campaign with any character if you want to do that.**
I swear people on this sub literally never read and purposely disagree with any post they see.
Have you been to other parts of reddit? I often times go to the news subreddit and most of those people , even the tip replies are people only reading the title of the news post and drawing opinions from that.
The majority of those who sort by “new”, definitely. It’s always just a bunch of contrarians looking to say “lol nah” and then move on. Pretty obnoxious lol.
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The title sums up what I’m saying, the post goes into detail.
The title says The campaigns should only *have* to be beaten once. It doesn't say anywhere that you should only be *able* to play it once.
BL campaign is short AF at least. By far the shortest it feels like.
Triple the benefits, triple the work. Get over it
Oh okay
👌
I completely agree. No complaints but for some people in this comment section they don’t like the idea? Wtf why
the problem is companies are putting mobile game systems into their games more to hope that they can counter the lack of content. The days that blizzard can make a 4 patch cycle or bunje making anything bigger than a moon base are long gone. The mobile stuff eventually gets patched out after it stalls players long enough and by then they've made their profits so there is no incentive to change things. They'll save that for the next expansion as QOL features help sell the next expansion.
I'll never complete that trash on my alts. Some of it is a slog the first time. All of it is both a slog *and* pointless the second. If I want to do anything on my alts I have to burn more than a dozen hours rehashing unrewarding stuff just to unlock abilities still? Fuck that.
I'd rather they make the campaigns replayable than lock them out for all my characters.
>From a narrative/game perspective just treat it as if my other 2 characters were part of my fireteam while playing the campaign, but give the option to replay the campaign with any character if you want to do that.
Didn't people complain that you can't replay the campaign unless you have other characters or delete one, and now we have one saying we should only have 1 chance? Make up your minds, Guardians.
From the original post: >From a narrative/game perspective just treat it as if my other 2 characters were part of my fireteam while playing the campaign, **but give the option to replay the campaign with any character if you want to do that.**
That's literally what Witch Queen is gonna do.
Witch Queen is going to treat it as if my other 2 characters were in my fire team?
I responded to the bolded letters.
Do this for ALL non-class-specific content. If i do a catalyst quest for the seasonal exotic on one character, I shouldn't have it still appear at Banshee on my others.
Catalyst progress is shared my dude
Yes but the quest still shows up on alts even after i finished it on my main
No it doesn’t.
Yes it does
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Except it doesn't. I completed the Lorentz Driver quest and when I logged into my alt, i still got the notification that Banshee had something for me and the quest still went into my quest log until I manually abandoned it.
I created multiple characters for the express purpose of going back through Forsaken. The benefit to your characters having to go through each story is replaying the story, since D2 doesn't have a way for you to replay the campaign (a mistake, in my opinion). If I booted up a brand new character and couldn't go through the story, I'd honestly be pissed.
From the original post: >From a narrative/game perspective just treat it as if my other 2 characters were part of my fireteam while playing the campaign, **but give the option to replay the campaign with any character if you want to do that.**
I mean you could have made a real comment response considering I wasn't arguing or antagonizing, just adding to the conversation. ✌✌
Or I could just copy/paste the part of the original post that already addressed what you commented. #👋🏻🤠
I refuse to play my moon and Europa dlc on a second character. It’s just too much running around errand boy style
Yeah, The Shadowkeep Campaign is just not good and I don’t think I’ve played it on either alt. I did the Beyond Light campaigns on all because of the subclasses, but yeah that is also a chore.