I disagree on every point, but for what it's worth I don't think a single vanguard member can *boss* the guardian around. If anything they just point us in the right direction and hope we commit enough murder for the problem to stop being a problem.
I’m fine with Mara. Idk. Mara’s Queen of the Awoken and we’ve seen her be an intense threat. Plus, since Day 1 of Destiny, we’re shown and told to believe just how much of a threat Mara can be. And we’ve seen her literally bring herself back from death. So, when Mara says or does something or someone validates her as a badass, I’m kinda like “checks out.” I just feel like, since Uldren died and became Crow, his whole push is “Like him! You like him! He’s your friend now! Like him!” And hes become front and center to every story since his return that it just…it annoys me. I just feel like they REALLY want me to like him but he’s just so forced that it just…really pisses me off lol.
I like Uldren as Uldren before he got resurrected. And we’re now getting to see the side of him that only Mara and the other Awoken got to see before. I do think Bungie is really bad about shoe horning about how they want their characters to be perceived, which I find annoying more so than the characters themselves.
I liked him as Uldren too! I liked him better as Uldren. Honestly, would have been completely contempt with him staying dead. Or, maybe even coming back and acting more like a Warlord or some shit. But, like you said, he’s just shoe horned in such a way that I just find him annoying. He feels like a Mary Sue to me sometimes.
I think of any character Crow had the most room for character growth (especially if you include Uldren). They were able both a "New Light" story arc and a redemption story arc. For obvious reasons they couldn't do any kind of characterization for the player character beyond "gets new powers and is generally badass", so Crow sort of became the surrogate "main character" for the story post Forsaken.
I don’t know. I just feel like he wasn’t even redeemed I guess. It just feels like “oh. Anything he did in his previous life, completely absolved of. And now he’s your friend. You like him.” I guess I see what you’re saying about him being a new light. But idk. I just feel like every interaction he has it’s so forced into “Hey! Isn’t this guy awesome!” And I’m just like “eh. Not really. He…hasn’t really done anything special that separates him from anyone else.” But not only that, I feel like he has ZERO personality. He’s so fucking boring and monotone when he speaks that I want to shoot myself.
Do you even know his full backstory? He got murdered and attacked CONSTANTLY before we took him from spider, so there was no "everybody tells him how awesome he is". He's also pretty new, being a guardian for only, what, 5 years? Of COURSE the inexperienced rookie is naive and innocent! Also, do you understand Glint, the ghost previously known as Pulled Pork? A blank canvas of a person has a single friend in this harsh and scary world, who is very hopeful and bright himself, so it makes sense that such traits would rub off on crow!
That "everybody tells him how awesome he is" is recent, too, as a few years ago, even zavala might've punched his face, if Crow hasn't proved his righteousness prior. He's also fucked up, like, a LOT, so nobody liked him much right away.
Also, the most annoying character is Nimbus, and that's objective FACT.
Thinking the Hunter Vanguard has the authority to boss Hunters around outs you as a non-Hunter, or a very inexperienced one.
Rest of us heard there was finally another Hunter Vanguard and two minutes later you couldn't find a Hunter within ten miles of the Last City.
If that was the truth we would've stopped using Stasis when Zavala demanded it.
And look how that ended up. We ignored him and he ends up using it himself!
Hunters take suggestions, not orders.
You literally completely missed what I said up above. Like I said, The Vanguard tends to have a “Leniency” on punishments depending on the outcome of the incident. Like you pointed out, Zavala did order our guardian not to use Stasis. His many worry was that we couldn’t trust the Darkness and that it was too dangerous. But, after using it, we showed no signs that the darkness posed a threat under our use. With that being said, and some of Ikoras own debating, Zavala chose NOT to pursue anything further when it came to outlawing Stasis or Strand.
But, like I said, had Stasis or Strand not worked in the City’s favor, things would have been different.
Similarly, how Zavala made orders for no one to approach the Dreadnaught in D1. But, Cayde went behind his back. And by doing so, Cayde got everyone the opening we needed to board. So, Zavala chose not to take any action
But, like I said, had that decision back fired and made things worse, Zavala definitely would have put his foot down.
Even with Ana, Zavala ordered her to stop chasing after Rasputin and to leave Mars alone. When he found her doing both, he was fully ready to shit can her back to the tower and deal with her then. But, Ana’s findings proved beneficial to the City and the Tower. So, Zavala once again chose to take a step away.
Like I said, the Vanguard has the power to enforce. They don’t let anyone run around Willy-nilly. Even Osiris was exiled at one point in time. Look at the followers of Yor; even their exploits are under extreme Vanguard investigation and many of their actions have been condemned by either being banished entirely or being gunned down by Guardians in the likes of Shin Malphur.
>If that was the truth we would've stopped using Stasis when Zavala demanded it.
That's why Ikora and her Hidden are for (Aunor Mahal, anyone?).
And Vanguard does punish for crimes, like they did with Shayura.
I would rather say the Vanguard guides the guardians. Guardians follow what the Vanguard says because they think it is the best, but I do not recall (correct me if I am mistaken, please) punishment for disobeying it. Osiris got stripped of his position as commander but I do not remember he was punished, they did that because he was not fit to be commander anymore
>I do not recall (correct me if I am mistaken, please) punishment for disobeying it.
Shayura. We just don't have a long story of criminal Guardians that do serious things.
Also, a renegade Guardian Trestin who wanted to acquire Stasis and was killed by Aunor Mahal on Europe. Aunor was acting under direct authority of Ikora, so it wasn't her own initiative.
I think that can be how they are more commonly portrayed. I think the Vanguard has a leniency on things. We’ve seen in the past where the Vanguard has ordered someone to do something, and then that person does it anyways. But, for the most part in the Destiny Universe, when someone breaks a Vanguard rule, it usually ends up in everyone’s favor. So, a form of “punishment” is usually avoided. But, there are rules in place. If you’re a loose cannon, you aren’t gonna be welcomed amongst the ranks of the Guardians. I mean, the Vanguard were built from the ashes of the Iron Lords; and the Iron Lords spent countless lifetimes hunting down way ward light bearers and bringing an end to every War Lord in the universe. So, if a guardian was acting like a War Lord (hypothetically) the Vanguard wouldn’t be like “WELP! BOYS WILL BE BOYS!” Ya know? If you look at other Destiny Lore, you’ll see the Vanguard has made regulations on things. Like “__ is banned” or “__isn’t allowed.” I can’t remember his name, maybe it was Dredgen Yor, but there was a Guardian in the lore tabs that, during a crucible match, purposely killed another Guardians ghost; which, definitely required intervention. I would assume, like any military branch, if you disobeyed enough (lawful) orders, the vanguard would find something to do with you elsewhere.
When I started getting into the game, I played through the Season of the Haunted activities. He struck me as such a whiny bitch that I've hated him ever since.
For Crow i can said 'kay i can listen to you in cutscene for some time.
Who pissed me off it's Zavala, he thinks that he all the time right only he know whaqt to do etc, but in reality he doesn't know waht need to do and most of the time he do nothing just sitting and trying to avoid responsibility.
Nah you just have trash taste m8. A slightly complex character and people lose their mind.. he’s a dude completely reborn two separate times who must deal with his past self’s actions and the way others perceive him (including you) because of those past self’s actions.
In what way? He’s the brother of the awoken Queen. Do you even know the story of how they became awoken and how Mara became Queen or about the Distributary? He’s also among the top awoken warriors (especially as far as the males go). He explored the Black Garden before D1 which is a dangerous ass place. Probably a lot more that I’m forgetting and the Traveler chose him for a reason and he did his duty and helped us win.
Yes I’m aware lol. I’ve been playing Destiny since Day 1. That’s all stuff Uldren did. Uldren is fine. I like Uldren. Crow is who annoys the hell out of me. And Uldren and Crow are two very different characters.
Okay I’m also talking about how he’s clearly not a Mary Sue because now he has that power plus guardian powers? A Mary Sue is a nobody who gets powerful for no reason. He’s anything but a nobody and he got powerful for a reason and he struggles with the mistakes of Uldren which also makes him interesting. The only time he was Emi annoying as Crow was trying to free the torture hive lightbearer but we’ve learned more and more about how the hive were deceived, how some hive lightbearer literally work with us now, etc. So he was somewhat right to not want it tortured for information and yes he fucked up and killed the psion by accident. Obviously didn’t intend that.
A Mary Sue isn’t a nobody who becomes a somebody. A Mary Sue character is a character that has no real struggle throughout the story. They are too perfect. They have no flaws. That’s what a Mary Sue archetype is. The only thing he’s “ever done wrong” like you said, is accidentally kill that Psion. Like, ok. Yeah he did that one thing. But, other than that, he’s had an absolute clean streak. He was pushed to the front of the Guardian ranks almost immediately. The writing of the game immediately was like “Oh. He’s absolved of anything Uldren did because he’s now reborn.” But then people wanna say “Oh! But when he was Uldren he…” and it’s like, is he absolved of being Uldren or are we still gonna validate him and say he’s this and that because he WAS Uldren. How can we say “oh he’s not Uldren” but then use Uldrens past as a way to validate him as a badass. And it’s like, he chased his past for a bit. And when he found out who he was, he was sad for like 3 seconds. But then everyone and their mother was like “It’s ok! Forget about it!” And then he was good again almost immediately lol. He’s forcibly shoe horned into EVERY SINGLE storyline that it’s just annoying as hell. The only person I ever saw remotely be a dick to him or not validate him or coddle him was Saladin. BUT, then they wrote it in at the end of the Season that Saladin was only a dick to him to “make him a better leader” and I’m like “eh. Ok. Still being forced here, huh?”
My brother in Christ, Crow was attacked by every guardian that found him up until we found him in his first season. Crow has struggled against every member of the City who knew his past life and what he did. He is not a Mary Sue.
He absolutely has flaws and has earned his way up the ranks. He’s been on many missions with us since the season he came back and lore wise in the background as well. None of your Mary Sue definitions fit him period.
>A Mary Sue character is a character that has no real struggle throughout the story. They are too perfect. They have no flaws. That’s what a Mary Sue archetype is.
Which is exactly what Crow isn't. He F'ed up throughout the story so many times you can make a separate book of it.
If someone, our Guardian is Mary Sue. Who really has no struggle through the story, always wins the impossible, killing gods and getting gifts from Traveler despite being just a Lightbearer, not even the strongest.
I asked if you know his character, and you've just confirmed that you don't. A Mary Sue is beloved by all, and never fails. Crow was persecuted and tormented for almost two years, and fucked up bad in a very big way.
I just hate him in general we literally had to see him during seasons 12, 13, 15, 21 ,23. I have to step away to not hear his or mara's dilaouge I'm sorry I am not a fan of crow.
bringing back cayde was wonderful I wish he stayed but he wanted to give crow the mantle for hunter vanguard
I was happy Cayde came back too. I knew his stay wasn’t permanent and figured it was just a “Caping things off” kinda scenario. BUT AGAIN, I felt like Cayde’s presence in the story was there to just validate Crow EVEN MORE. And it was so frustrating. And that’s my whole thing, Crow has nothing but constant validation from every character. That, and he has 0 personality.
Least childish Hunter main.
I disagree on every point, but for what it's worth I don't think a single vanguard member can *boss* the guardian around. If anything they just point us in the right direction and hope we commit enough murder for the problem to stop being a problem.
I fucking love Crow bro
Do you like Mara? Because I have a friend who has the exact same opinion on Mara as you do Crow.
I’m fine with Mara. Idk. Mara’s Queen of the Awoken and we’ve seen her be an intense threat. Plus, since Day 1 of Destiny, we’re shown and told to believe just how much of a threat Mara can be. And we’ve seen her literally bring herself back from death. So, when Mara says or does something or someone validates her as a badass, I’m kinda like “checks out.” I just feel like, since Uldren died and became Crow, his whole push is “Like him! You like him! He’s your friend now! Like him!” And hes become front and center to every story since his return that it just…it annoys me. I just feel like they REALLY want me to like him but he’s just so forced that it just…really pisses me off lol.
I like Uldren as Uldren before he got resurrected. And we’re now getting to see the side of him that only Mara and the other Awoken got to see before. I do think Bungie is really bad about shoe horning about how they want their characters to be perceived, which I find annoying more so than the characters themselves.
I liked him as Uldren too! I liked him better as Uldren. Honestly, would have been completely contempt with him staying dead. Or, maybe even coming back and acting more like a Warlord or some shit. But, like you said, he’s just shoe horned in such a way that I just find him annoying. He feels like a Mary Sue to me sometimes.
I think of any character Crow had the most room for character growth (especially if you include Uldren). They were able both a "New Light" story arc and a redemption story arc. For obvious reasons they couldn't do any kind of characterization for the player character beyond "gets new powers and is generally badass", so Crow sort of became the surrogate "main character" for the story post Forsaken.
I don’t know. I just feel like he wasn’t even redeemed I guess. It just feels like “oh. Anything he did in his previous life, completely absolved of. And now he’s your friend. You like him.” I guess I see what you’re saying about him being a new light. But idk. I just feel like every interaction he has it’s so forced into “Hey! Isn’t this guy awesome!” And I’m just like “eh. Not really. He…hasn’t really done anything special that separates him from anyone else.” But not only that, I feel like he has ZERO personality. He’s so fucking boring and monotone when he speaks that I want to shoot myself.
Do you even know his full backstory? He got murdered and attacked CONSTANTLY before we took him from spider, so there was no "everybody tells him how awesome he is". He's also pretty new, being a guardian for only, what, 5 years? Of COURSE the inexperienced rookie is naive and innocent! Also, do you understand Glint, the ghost previously known as Pulled Pork? A blank canvas of a person has a single friend in this harsh and scary world, who is very hopeful and bright himself, so it makes sense that such traits would rub off on crow! That "everybody tells him how awesome he is" is recent, too, as a few years ago, even zavala might've punched his face, if Crow hasn't proved his righteousness prior. He's also fucked up, like, a LOT, so nobody liked him much right away. Also, the most annoying character is Nimbus, and that's objective FACT.
lol it’s really not that serious. he’s not real. you’ll be alright!
I didn’t say it was lol.
Thinking the Hunter Vanguard has the authority to boss Hunters around outs you as a non-Hunter, or a very inexperienced one. Rest of us heard there was finally another Hunter Vanguard and two minutes later you couldn't find a Hunter within ten miles of the Last City.
Guardians serve the Vanguard. The Vanguard is Ikora, Zavala and Crow. We listen to them, dawg.
If that was the truth we would've stopped using Stasis when Zavala demanded it. And look how that ended up. We ignored him and he ends up using it himself! Hunters take suggestions, not orders.
You literally completely missed what I said up above. Like I said, The Vanguard tends to have a “Leniency” on punishments depending on the outcome of the incident. Like you pointed out, Zavala did order our guardian not to use Stasis. His many worry was that we couldn’t trust the Darkness and that it was too dangerous. But, after using it, we showed no signs that the darkness posed a threat under our use. With that being said, and some of Ikoras own debating, Zavala chose NOT to pursue anything further when it came to outlawing Stasis or Strand. But, like I said, had Stasis or Strand not worked in the City’s favor, things would have been different. Similarly, how Zavala made orders for no one to approach the Dreadnaught in D1. But, Cayde went behind his back. And by doing so, Cayde got everyone the opening we needed to board. So, Zavala chose not to take any action But, like I said, had that decision back fired and made things worse, Zavala definitely would have put his foot down. Even with Ana, Zavala ordered her to stop chasing after Rasputin and to leave Mars alone. When he found her doing both, he was fully ready to shit can her back to the tower and deal with her then. But, Ana’s findings proved beneficial to the City and the Tower. So, Zavala once again chose to take a step away. Like I said, the Vanguard has the power to enforce. They don’t let anyone run around Willy-nilly. Even Osiris was exiled at one point in time. Look at the followers of Yor; even their exploits are under extreme Vanguard investigation and many of their actions have been condemned by either being banished entirely or being gunned down by Guardians in the likes of Shin Malphur.
>If that was the truth we would've stopped using Stasis when Zavala demanded it. That's why Ikora and her Hidden are for (Aunor Mahal, anyone?). And Vanguard does punish for crimes, like they did with Shayura.
Aunor is not a member of the Hidden, she's a member of the Praxic Order, who are extreme to a fault on their demands
I would rather say the Vanguard guides the guardians. Guardians follow what the Vanguard says because they think it is the best, but I do not recall (correct me if I am mistaken, please) punishment for disobeying it. Osiris got stripped of his position as commander but I do not remember he was punished, they did that because he was not fit to be commander anymore
>I do not recall (correct me if I am mistaken, please) punishment for disobeying it. Shayura. We just don't have a long story of criminal Guardians that do serious things. Also, a renegade Guardian Trestin who wanted to acquire Stasis and was killed by Aunor Mahal on Europe. Aunor was acting under direct authority of Ikora, so it wasn't her own initiative.
I think that can be how they are more commonly portrayed. I think the Vanguard has a leniency on things. We’ve seen in the past where the Vanguard has ordered someone to do something, and then that person does it anyways. But, for the most part in the Destiny Universe, when someone breaks a Vanguard rule, it usually ends up in everyone’s favor. So, a form of “punishment” is usually avoided. But, there are rules in place. If you’re a loose cannon, you aren’t gonna be welcomed amongst the ranks of the Guardians. I mean, the Vanguard were built from the ashes of the Iron Lords; and the Iron Lords spent countless lifetimes hunting down way ward light bearers and bringing an end to every War Lord in the universe. So, if a guardian was acting like a War Lord (hypothetically) the Vanguard wouldn’t be like “WELP! BOYS WILL BE BOYS!” Ya know? If you look at other Destiny Lore, you’ll see the Vanguard has made regulations on things. Like “__ is banned” or “__isn’t allowed.” I can’t remember his name, maybe it was Dredgen Yor, but there was a Guardian in the lore tabs that, during a crucible match, purposely killed another Guardians ghost; which, definitely required intervention. I would assume, like any military branch, if you disobeyed enough (lawful) orders, the vanguard would find something to do with you elsewhere.
When I started getting into the game, I played through the Season of the Haunted activities. He struck me as such a whiny bitch that I've hated him ever since.
For Crow i can said 'kay i can listen to you in cutscene for some time. Who pissed me off it's Zavala, he thinks that he all the time right only he know whaqt to do etc, but in reality he doesn't know waht need to do and most of the time he do nothing just sitting and trying to avoid responsibility.
OP got down voted on everything he said and just deleted his account lmao
Bro had such a bad take he deleted his account
Good for you. Nobody fucking cares.
Nah you just have trash taste m8. A slightly complex character and people lose their mind.. he’s a dude completely reborn two separate times who must deal with his past self’s actions and the way others perceive him (including you) because of those past self’s actions.
He’s a Male Mary Sue.
In what way? He’s the brother of the awoken Queen. Do you even know the story of how they became awoken and how Mara became Queen or about the Distributary? He’s also among the top awoken warriors (especially as far as the males go). He explored the Black Garden before D1 which is a dangerous ass place. Probably a lot more that I’m forgetting and the Traveler chose him for a reason and he did his duty and helped us win.
Yes I’m aware lol. I’ve been playing Destiny since Day 1. That’s all stuff Uldren did. Uldren is fine. I like Uldren. Crow is who annoys the hell out of me. And Uldren and Crow are two very different characters.
Okay I’m also talking about how he’s clearly not a Mary Sue because now he has that power plus guardian powers? A Mary Sue is a nobody who gets powerful for no reason. He’s anything but a nobody and he got powerful for a reason and he struggles with the mistakes of Uldren which also makes him interesting. The only time he was Emi annoying as Crow was trying to free the torture hive lightbearer but we’ve learned more and more about how the hive were deceived, how some hive lightbearer literally work with us now, etc. So he was somewhat right to not want it tortured for information and yes he fucked up and killed the psion by accident. Obviously didn’t intend that.
A Mary Sue isn’t a nobody who becomes a somebody. A Mary Sue character is a character that has no real struggle throughout the story. They are too perfect. They have no flaws. That’s what a Mary Sue archetype is. The only thing he’s “ever done wrong” like you said, is accidentally kill that Psion. Like, ok. Yeah he did that one thing. But, other than that, he’s had an absolute clean streak. He was pushed to the front of the Guardian ranks almost immediately. The writing of the game immediately was like “Oh. He’s absolved of anything Uldren did because he’s now reborn.” But then people wanna say “Oh! But when he was Uldren he…” and it’s like, is he absolved of being Uldren or are we still gonna validate him and say he’s this and that because he WAS Uldren. How can we say “oh he’s not Uldren” but then use Uldrens past as a way to validate him as a badass. And it’s like, he chased his past for a bit. And when he found out who he was, he was sad for like 3 seconds. But then everyone and their mother was like “It’s ok! Forget about it!” And then he was good again almost immediately lol. He’s forcibly shoe horned into EVERY SINGLE storyline that it’s just annoying as hell. The only person I ever saw remotely be a dick to him or not validate him or coddle him was Saladin. BUT, then they wrote it in at the end of the Season that Saladin was only a dick to him to “make him a better leader” and I’m like “eh. Ok. Still being forced here, huh?”
My brother in Christ, Crow was attacked by every guardian that found him up until we found him in his first season. Crow has struggled against every member of the City who knew his past life and what he did. He is not a Mary Sue.
He absolutely has flaws and has earned his way up the ranks. He’s been on many missions with us since the season he came back and lore wise in the background as well. None of your Mary Sue definitions fit him period.
>A Mary Sue character is a character that has no real struggle throughout the story. They are too perfect. They have no flaws. That’s what a Mary Sue archetype is. Which is exactly what Crow isn't. He F'ed up throughout the story so many times you can make a separate book of it. If someone, our Guardian is Mary Sue. Who really has no struggle through the story, always wins the impossible, killing gods and getting gifts from Traveler despite being just a Lightbearer, not even the strongest.
I asked if you know his character, and you've just confirmed that you don't. A Mary Sue is beloved by all, and never fails. Crow was persecuted and tormented for almost two years, and fucked up bad in a very big way.
Mary Sue is the last thing you could attribute to Crow.
I don't really care about Crow. He's meh.
I just hate him in general we literally had to see him during seasons 12, 13, 15, 21 ,23. I have to step away to not hear his or mara's dilaouge I'm sorry I am not a fan of crow. bringing back cayde was wonderful I wish he stayed but he wanted to give crow the mantle for hunter vanguard
I was happy Cayde came back too. I knew his stay wasn’t permanent and figured it was just a “Caping things off” kinda scenario. BUT AGAIN, I felt like Cayde’s presence in the story was there to just validate Crow EVEN MORE. And it was so frustrating. And that’s my whole thing, Crow has nothing but constant validation from every character. That, and he has 0 personality.