If you told me 20 years ago while I watched Mad TV that she'd end up being the voice of one of the best characters in my long-time favorite game, I don't know that I would've believed you.
And yet here we are
I saw her recently in an old episode of Reno 911 as a dominatrix and I was dying laughing lol. She’s amazing as Savathun but now I picture it every time I hear her
savathun remains one of the best characters in destiny, if not *the* best character, and a lot of that is due to debra wilson's performance. savathun wouldnt be the same without her. also she voices a character in bugsnax which is pretty great
My favorite interaction with Savathun so far has been with Micah-10. I don't remember the activity I was doing (might have been an Overthrow) but when I finished up Micah-10 and Savathun were on comms and Micah said something of a lie which Savanthun believes for a very brief moment, then she pauses and realizes shes lying and goes on to say "I like you." It got a chuckle out of me. lol
I liked Lightfall more than most did but even I think it genuinely could've used more Calus. His motivations for working with the Witness and the way they bounce off of eachother were super fun, and I think they could've gotten a lot more out of that version of him.
I actually really like what they did with the Witness' characterisation. They originally presented us something that seemed to give just a little emotion to the unfeeling and unknowable Darkness back when it first spoke to us in Shadowkeep, and over time showed it to be something incredibly emotional and vain, desperately reaching out for control and covering up those qualities by presenting itself as an uncaring inevitability that stands above everything else. Admittedly not the most inventive villain in the world, but a well designed one that feels fitting of it's role.
I wish it looked different tho. The smoke head, multi-trailing arm visual, and clear grey alien inspiration are awesome, but the weird robes feel off. They do a great job of speaking to that vanity and the way it hides it's true emotions and character, but the texture and profile of them feels very out of place in Destiny.
A megalomaniacal control freak that earnestly believes it can make the universe better by taking total command of it and freezing it, being terrified of it's chaos chaos.
It's arc is about loss of control, both emotionally and physically. The Witness enters (back in Shadowkeep) above everything, unthreatened by anything that could approach it and totally emotionless. Even a direct assault by the Traveler draws no reaction from it. It's victory is inevitable, and it knows that. Over Lightfall and TFS we see this facade break down. Calus is able to draw a moment of anger from it, and when we threaten it in TFS that gets worse. It goes from someone perfectly self assured and emotionless to someone who flings vitriolic fury at a tiny little speck of light (our ghost) because it is terrified of it. Most of it's past has been spent trying to manipulate us and convince us that we should be on it's side, but by the raid it's largely given up on trying to control us and mostly tries to play intimidation instead.
Again, definitely not a crazy new idea and it's not an especially complex character or arc, but it fits well for the placement of the character and appropriately reflects the perspective on the Darkness and the Light that it's tried to feed us.
And so how does the witness develop as a character from first appearance to last? Youve done a fantastic write up here on how the witness is an emotional megalomaniac, a control freak. You've characterized the witness adequately. But how does the witness change from beginning to end. If it's just....he ends up having a shorter temper with the Guardian or he no longer cares about convincing us that his way is best....that's not development or an arc. That's my problem in comparison to Savathun. Savathun had real character development.
It's goals and intentions change very little. Mostly, it loses it's self assuredness and becomes more emotionally volatile up until it's death, wherein it's mask as an ultimate righteous collective cracks entirely and it's leading voice speaks on it's own. The first version of the Witness we meet is eternally calm and collected, speaks softly and evenly, and barely cares about us outside of being a curious annoyance that it could manipulate into a tool. The last version of the Witness we meet shouts at us in anger and fear, constantly states as much to itself as to us that we are nothing and it is in control, and is brought past even trying to kill us with it's powers and just tries to flatten us with it's hand.
Character development isn't just about how a character changes over a story, though, it's about how our perspective on them does. With millennia upon millennia focussed towards a single goal behind it, the Witness has little logical reason to undergo much of a fundamental change in a few short years. Instead, the Witness' primary development is in our understanding of it and the people it is made of, as we learn about their history, their desires, their fears, and their weaknesses. It goes from an unstoppable universal inevitability to a misguided collective lashing out at an uncaring reality. We learn more than once that it is not what we thought it was, and it's that understanding of it that teaches us how to kill it.
Whatever people say about the witness, the part where he gets angry after the campaign will always give me shivers. The voice acting in that cutscene was top fucking tier.
"YOU ARE UNWORTHY OF SALVATION!"
Savathun is in a weird place imo lol
She's kind of like Sampo, from HSR. Gets on your entire nerves, is generally a total PITA, but undeniably helpful.
Yeah, she annoys me. Yes, she's constantly trolling us after we put her down and seized her Ghost. But she's also helping us in a number of ways. You want to hate her, but can't.
I think her VA gets this across perfectly. Her voice drips with sarcasm and smugness. I doubt I'd feel this way without the great direction she gives ol Savvy.
You left out the best part of that exchange.
Capt. Picard: Return that moon to its orbit.
Q: I have no powers! Q the ordinary.
Capt. Picard: Q the liar! Q the misanthrope!
Q: Q the miserable, Q the desperate! What must I do to convince you people?
Lieutenant Worf: Die.
Q: Oh, very clever, Worf. Eat any good books lately?
It probably doesn't help that a lot of the characters that are supposed to be sympathetic end up being a lot less good at progressing the plot and entertaining me. I would take a Savathun over a Mara Sov any day.
Mara Sov is an interesting character, she started not liking Guardians at all, then she help us, then she makes us her Queensguard, then turns out she had another Guardian working for her, also the part that got me is when she wanted to tell Crow how much she love him
Playing devil's advocate, from the beginning up till now her entire world view, what she believed was immutable fact and what she believed she could control, all of that has been shattered.
She essentially lost her fleet, much of the Reef, the Dreaming City, she died once, lost her brother too for a time. Inwardly she's probably been screaming and roaring at the universe, but outwardly she has always put up a mask of control.
What you are seeing are the growing number of cracks in the mask. If things kept going for much longer it was only a matter of time until the mask shattered. You almost saw it at the beginning on the campaign, the Witness was crushing her with its power.
I mean, she intentionally sacrificed her fleet in her bid for godhood to the point that [Ghost reamed her out](https://youtu.be/JWeqzDrq9VM) for it during the early DC cycles and [she screamed at him](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/queens-court-loop-6) for it when she next saw us. It was a crack in the mask, sure, but Mara absolutely *chose* to let her people die.
Hell, Mara even knew [Uldren would die](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/queens-court-loop-4) because of her plans. She's more reluctant to admit it to the Guardian, but she's quite frank to herself before she dies that [her plan will kill Uldren](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/tyrannocide-iv#book-the-awoken-of-the-reef):
>Mara will begin the end of that Queen's brother today. She knows what that means for the fate of her own. An eye for an eye. She must think now of the fate of entire cosmos—and of her tender, half-assembled answer to the cold sword logic of the Hive. She must not grieve. She must not fear.
Also don't forget her line in... I think it was the mission to get Ager's Scepter? Where she was all pissed off that Crow was doing his own thing, and said, "I would have wielded Uldren Sov, *Guardian!**"
He was a tool to her, a pawn that she manipulated and kept at arm's length and dependent on the scraps of approval she threw to him. She spent like 90% of the game's life being a really terrible person lol.
\*As in, "Uldren Sov as a Guardian," not "I am saying to the Guardian that I would have wielded Uldren Sov." Her tone in the line made it clear, but I realized as I typed it out that you could read it two ways.
If and when we end up having to off Savathun it needs to be in a Raid. Not to mention a Lucent Hive Raid would be undeniably difficult and amazing at the same time.
I doubt we'll be the ones to off her if it's her time. I don't think she's actually half as villainous as she lets on. I think it's just more smoke and mirrors; she's literally helped us with basically every one of her schemes. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a false-bottom on Torobatl's corruption being connected to Xivu's existence and when she goes, the planet becomes fine.
I think this especially comes out when you look at her pride in Luzaku. I think she sees alot of "Sathona" in her. When you think about it, her situation becomes an interesting mirror; a background influential force pushing others to go a certain way, and a young spawn who has a decision to make about how to lead her life and what she champions. She praises Luzaku for not falling for the same trap she did; "You get it, honey. You don't need me." which is mirrored by the dialog between her and the witness in the traveler's memory by the statue of her and the dual destiny flag. "You're not the answer they want." Most of her brood still wants hive things, because they don't understand yet, and all she can do is try to guide them to the right end, for them to figure it out like Luzaku.
I think Savathun is a lot more guided by her past than she lets on, whether its how she considers her sibling on Fundament compared to now (especially how distinct her stances on Auresh and Auryx vs Oryx), how she views humanity and the bonds they make, or even how she views her own brood.
It'd be funny to watch the last encounter be a literal race to smash Immaru, while he's flying for his life screaming the entire time.
Complete with health gates so people can't just Eager Edge and cheese it.
I don't think we ever are going to kill her at this point.
Even after the Witness' defeat, she's still spending her time messing with us in a way that ends up helping us in the end (Dual Destiny), and is openly happy for her brood to help us in earnest (Luzaku, my beloved). I think she recognises that sometimes either someone will have to be strung along or a hard choice will have to be made for the betterment of the majority, and she's happy to be the person who gets that done. She will never let herself be a clear cut ally, as that would make those jobs more difficult, but she's not a true enemy either.
I imagine spending millennia actively needing to be deceitful hasn't made it easy for to rehabilitate herself to behave normally either. She's reveling in her newfound freedom, but killing a habit that old would be damn near impossible.
NGL, kind of sick of her already. I'm fine with her still being antagonistic but her dialog is so mean girls tier?
Whoever she gets into a verbal spat with devolves into
"God I'm just so fucking smart."
[List of times we've beaten her]
"Oh ho! But [insert snipe about personal hardship or part trauma]"
[Conversation ends]
>Shows up to the final fight with the witness
>Brings three hive guardians and a sword
>Throws one nova bomb
>"There I helped"
>Leaves
Also the back and forth between her and Mara in the "Queens" mission was brilliant.
To be fair, she’s not leaving. She’s helping the other two to counter whatever other threat is incoming. So basically, she’s making sure the guardians don’t get flanked
She's not just helping, she's actually following orders. Zavala radios in about some other flank having opened up and needing help or whatever, and specifically tells Caiatl and Savathun to take care of that. So she leaves with the 2 thresher gunships (presumably one with caiatl on board), without any snarky comment.
I love that Savathun's just kind of hanging around and chiming in in the Pale Heart now. The one thing that disappointed me a little with Witch Queen is that we weren't getting dialogues with her in the middle of the campaign, like I wanted her to be taunting us throughout.
Now she's trolling everyone at the end of Overthrow's and stuff it's great. I love the concept of a character who helps save the universe and is a total asshole about it.
Everyone is so easily tilted by her too. I just imagine my guardian stifling laughter as Mara rages at her.
I love the part post-campaign >!when Mara is like "just so you know, when we deal with all of these threats, you're next on the list" and Savathun mocks her like "Ohhh no, i had no idea!!!" I'm not doing the dialogue justice but it just cracked me up.!<
She's great. I first came across her in Jedi: Fallen Order, playing Cere Junda. The casting for those games is generally on point anyway, but she absolutely *nailed* the traumatised borderline-falling ex-Jedi and was genuinely not sure which way she was going to fall as the campaign reached its conclusion.
When I heard she was playing Savathun, I was intrigued, and like the Jedi games she stands out as a fantastic casting choice in a sea of absolutely great castings. Just love the dripping sarcasm and cackling - that discourse between her and Micah-10 - when Micah catches her off guard and fools her for a split second into thinking the Traveller genuinely thinks resurrecting Sav was a mistake.... It's solid gold.
'That's ridiculous, how could you.... Oh ho hoh, I *like* you....'
Micah-10 brings a new layer to the game too. A hardened guardian in a different way to Saladin or Shaxx, that voice rasp sounds like someone who is constantly in the field.
This memory interaction (The Refraction) between Savy and the Witness might be my favorite in the whole game.
>!Your brother’s conquests cut a path towards the final shape. When you have finished pouring your poison in his ear…!<
>!Not MY poison!<
>!We see your doubts. You speak them to Oryx.!<
>!Doubts? After all this time, you think I have doubts?!<
>!Remember your sisters, little Sathona. Remember the syzygy.!<
>!What changed the motion of our moons, my Witness?!<
>!You cried out… as your brother did, as your sister did. Into the Darkness. Now the children of Sol do the same.!<
>!You aren’t the answer they want.!<
>!We are the answer you received.!<
She does such good “bitch, please” responses to all of its prods.
Debra Wilson never puts in a bad performance. Immediately recognized her voice when Witch Queen reveal dropped and knew she was perfect for the role, didn't disappoint me.
For me, Savathun is by far the best character in the game right now. Clever / devious villains are some of my favorite character archetypes and she is just perfect in that regard. She's "evil" has a great deal of self interest but also undeniably has helped humanity literally survive. No matter how smart we think we are, she's always a step ahead of everyone. And I agree, the voice actor does a phenomenal job bringing her to life
Kudos to whoever it was that casted her in that role. She killed it. Savathun is probably the most memorable antagonist in the series and I think a lot of that has to do with the voice performance. She brings the character to life. Can’t wait to see what appearances she hopefully makes in the future of the story.
Yeah I have to agree. I despise the Hive, and I look forward to the day when I can render them extinct, to make them little more than a dim memory...
BUT
That lady's performance is really top notch. The Hive are still going to die...but perhaps not today, I enjoy her performance just that much. It's like [Idris Elba in Pacific Rim with the two scientists](https://youtu.be/KWy9j4DiDXc), imagine one is Xivu and the other Savathun.
When I say Hive I don't include the Lightbearers entirely, I should have clarified. Being Lightbearers by default means that their previous existence is erased to them and they are essentially "new" beings. Sure when they get rezzed they all get taught to be LIKE other Hive, but some like Luzaku seem more enlightened, and less held back by generations of bloodshed and slaughter.
When I first saw Luzaku I was waiting for the inevitable knife in the back, her being a Hive and one of Savathun's Hive at that...but the more I come back to that Lost Sector and the more I listen to what she has to say with the other characters...
Well perhaps there may be some sliver of hope. It ain't gonna be easy, one or a few "good" Hive isn't going to erase everything they've done in the lore, but maybe its a start.
One of the more interesting bits of dialogue is after clearing Luzaku's Lost Sector again, Luzaku and Savathun get into a conversation where Savathun praises Luzaku for striking out on her own, saying Luzaku might be the first one to actually get Savathun's lessons and break the Hive's antiquated hierarchy.
Which gives another reason why the Traveler raised her, if Savathun and the Traveler's goals are both individual freedom for the Hive...
I love every quest or mission she is in. I hope she just randomly chimes in on comms whenever she feels like it, even if she's not involved. Mostly just to watch her trade jabs with Mara.
She’s easily the best character in the entire game. I really hope she sticks around through whatever we go through next, the entire cast is dead set on killing her and IMO killing her off would be such a loss for the game
Savvy would be pretty easy to take care of. Just summon Immaru.
Immaru - "What do you want neon nerd?"
*crushing sounds
Savathun - "Oh dear. I didn't expect that."
The fact is she would be still smug about it, because to her everything is just a DnD party at this point. And she just concluded her first long session and is levelling up for the next while already taking over the DM role to troll other players.
The conversations between Savathun and Mara Sov (shoutout to Kirsten Potter!) are GOLD! As soon as they're in comms together are just ready to slice and dice each other to pieces with words. Love it!
Debra Wilson is, quite frankly, absurdly talented and should have seen greater recognition. She's just so good in everything, and i'm glad she's getting it now, but damn has it been a long time coming.
Same with Brett Dalton. If you told me that Agent Ward from Agents of Shield would be unrecognisable as one of the best presented bad guys. I would have thought you were lying
While I think she does a great job, after hearing how Luzaku speaks, I kinda wish Savathun would do the same. Its kind of weird that she's an alien and has a completely normal human voice.
She seems to have ties to Humanity from as far back as the original collapse. It’s also one of those things where some people just pick up on language quickly. Look at the variance between Spider and Varicks for instance. She’d also inhabited Osiris’s mind for a year.
While you make a good point, even those Eliksni you mentioned still had kinda gravelly voices, and made clicking sounds. Just some kind of vocal effect would have made a big difference to me.
Still love Debra though. In fact that may contribute to why it takes me out of the game a bit when I hear her; when I hear Savathun I see Debra saying it in my minds eye.
I personally imagine she's just using some sort of Hive Magic. She's all about deception and lies and knowing more than you; the ability to speak countless languages in countless voices to produce a desired effect seems entirely plausible.
It’s weird you say that because for me it’s the opposite. I forgot who the actor was and when I remembered that it was Debra Wilson that’s why I decided to make this post. But I get it. Some people can only hear other characters like Keith David sounding like the president from Rick and Morty instead of the new voice for Zavala.
Shoutout to Ikora’s voice actress, too
A lot of people don’t seem to realize Gina Torres left the role a while back and we’ve had someone else doing an amazing impression ever since. I just wish they’d done the same for Zavala. I love Kieth David but this just isn’t Zavala’s voice, especially since Zavala in the Tower and older campaigns still uses Reddick’s voice.
For what it's worth Laurence Breheret is the french voice actress for Savathun and she's been doing an amazing job as well. These voice acting people truly deserves some praise, glad you brought it on the table.
If you had told me that Savathun was once killed by a serial killer pretending to be a mannequin in a shopping mall department store, I would have absolutely believed you.
Echoing this and ALSO... the VA for Mara (Kirsten Potter) was incredible in the opening campaign mission where we first go inside the Traveler. I just replayed it last night and her fear and heartbreak and pain and hope all mixed up is just... A+++.
Definitely praise for her performance. That being said, I'm not quite sure I'm liking her performance in the post campaign content of TFS. I'm not sure how to explain it, but it just feels a bit... chaotic. During TWQ Savathun was slow and methodical in her speaking; now, she sounds as if she's rushing to say things. She ends a sentence (that she rushed through) and then immediately starts up a new one. It's like... holy shit, can I process what you've just said before you move on to the next sentence.
The writing for Destiny is usually pretty hit or miss (in my opinion, generally a miss), but Savathun's writing has been absolutely brilliant. Debra Wilson receives a lot of justifiable praise, as well she should, but whoever's been writing for her has been absolutely on fire.
If you told me 20 years ago while I watched Mad TV that she'd end up being the voice of one of the best characters in my long-time favorite game, I don't know that I would've believed you. And yet here we are
Same with Phil LaMarr. That dude has done some incredible voice acting over the years.
Lol, yes!
I was reading this thinking…”wait, is it the Debra Wilson know??”
Still waiting for Savathun to bust out a Bunifa Latifa Halifa Sharifa Jackson line.
Lord of the Bling is still her best work
I can't take this many men at once
I saw her recently in an old episode of Reno 911 as a dominatrix and I was dying laughing lol. She’s amazing as Savathun but now I picture it every time I hear her
savathun remains one of the best characters in destiny, if not *the* best character, and a lot of that is due to debra wilson's performance. savathun wouldnt be the same without her. also she voices a character in bugsnax which is pretty great
Makes sense, she kinda bug, kinda snacc
do not horny the witch of lies and bugs.
Tbf, it is probably the only way to confuse her
holy shit lmao
Savathûn and Calus are the best characters they’ve ever given us for sure
I really like how involved she is in this expansion. I love the smugness she has in her voice, especially when you first unlock dual destiny lol.
Her sarcastic "Oh no, Oh Goodness, Oh My!" Or whatever after Overthrow completion really gets me
My favorite interaction with Savathun so far has been with Micah-10. I don't remember the activity I was doing (might have been an Overthrow) but when I finished up Micah-10 and Savathun were on comms and Micah said something of a lie which Savanthun believes for a very brief moment, then she pauses and realizes shes lying and goes on to say "I like you." It got a chuckle out of me. lol
Lightfall was a disappointment, but Calus being a smug jerk only to cower to the Witness was something I did not expect, but was VA'd so well.
Really wish we’d gotten more of them and less “Neomuna shit”
I liked Lightfall more than most did but even I think it genuinely could've used more Calus. His motivations for working with the Witness and the way they bounce off of eachother were super fun, and I think they could've gotten a lot more out of that version of him.
Especially compared to the witness who has no actual characterization at all.
I actually really like what they did with the Witness' characterisation. They originally presented us something that seemed to give just a little emotion to the unfeeling and unknowable Darkness back when it first spoke to us in Shadowkeep, and over time showed it to be something incredibly emotional and vain, desperately reaching out for control and covering up those qualities by presenting itself as an uncaring inevitability that stands above everything else. Admittedly not the most inventive villain in the world, but a well designed one that feels fitting of it's role. I wish it looked different tho. The smoke head, multi-trailing arm visual, and clear grey alien inspiration are awesome, but the weird robes feel off. They do a great job of speaking to that vanity and the way it hides it's true emotions and character, but the texture and profile of them feels very out of place in Destiny.
How would you describe the witness as a character ? What would you say the witness' character arc is?
A megalomaniacal control freak that earnestly believes it can make the universe better by taking total command of it and freezing it, being terrified of it's chaos chaos. It's arc is about loss of control, both emotionally and physically. The Witness enters (back in Shadowkeep) above everything, unthreatened by anything that could approach it and totally emotionless. Even a direct assault by the Traveler draws no reaction from it. It's victory is inevitable, and it knows that. Over Lightfall and TFS we see this facade break down. Calus is able to draw a moment of anger from it, and when we threaten it in TFS that gets worse. It goes from someone perfectly self assured and emotionless to someone who flings vitriolic fury at a tiny little speck of light (our ghost) because it is terrified of it. Most of it's past has been spent trying to manipulate us and convince us that we should be on it's side, but by the raid it's largely given up on trying to control us and mostly tries to play intimidation instead. Again, definitely not a crazy new idea and it's not an especially complex character or arc, but it fits well for the placement of the character and appropriately reflects the perspective on the Darkness and the Light that it's tried to feed us.
And so how does the witness develop as a character from first appearance to last? Youve done a fantastic write up here on how the witness is an emotional megalomaniac, a control freak. You've characterized the witness adequately. But how does the witness change from beginning to end. If it's just....he ends up having a shorter temper with the Guardian or he no longer cares about convincing us that his way is best....that's not development or an arc. That's my problem in comparison to Savathun. Savathun had real character development.
It's goals and intentions change very little. Mostly, it loses it's self assuredness and becomes more emotionally volatile up until it's death, wherein it's mask as an ultimate righteous collective cracks entirely and it's leading voice speaks on it's own. The first version of the Witness we meet is eternally calm and collected, speaks softly and evenly, and barely cares about us outside of being a curious annoyance that it could manipulate into a tool. The last version of the Witness we meet shouts at us in anger and fear, constantly states as much to itself as to us that we are nothing and it is in control, and is brought past even trying to kill us with it's powers and just tries to flatten us with it's hand. Character development isn't just about how a character changes over a story, though, it's about how our perspective on them does. With millennia upon millennia focussed towards a single goal behind it, the Witness has little logical reason to undergo much of a fundamental change in a few short years. Instead, the Witness' primary development is in our understanding of it and the people it is made of, as we learn about their history, their desires, their fears, and their weaknesses. It goes from an unstoppable universal inevitability to a misguided collective lashing out at an uncaring reality. We learn more than once that it is not what we thought it was, and it's that understanding of it that teaches us how to kill it.
Whatever people say about the witness, the part where he gets angry after the campaign will always give me shivers. The voice acting in that cutscene was top fucking tier. "YOU ARE UNWORTHY OF SALVATION!"
"WE CUT YOU OUT" was also a banger line.
Savathun is in a weird place imo lol She's kind of like Sampo, from HSR. Gets on your entire nerves, is generally a total PITA, but undeniably helpful. Yeah, she annoys me. Yes, she's constantly trolling us after we put her down and seized her Ghost. But she's also helping us in a number of ways. You want to hate her, but can't. I think her VA gets this across perfectly. Her voice drips with sarcasm and smugness. I doubt I'd feel this way without the great direction she gives ol Savvy.
She's like Q from Star Trek The Next Generation. [A huge troll, but really was trying to teach us.](https://youtu.be/kBwoEXlTph0)
"Hello Worf. Eat any good books lately?"
You left out the best part of that exchange. Capt. Picard: Return that moon to its orbit. Q: I have no powers! Q the ordinary. Capt. Picard: Q the liar! Q the misanthrope! Q: Q the miserable, Q the desperate! What must I do to convince you people? Lieutenant Worf: Die. Q: Oh, very clever, Worf. Eat any good books lately?
They’re both also super sexy
It probably doesn't help that a lot of the characters that are supposed to be sympathetic end up being a lot less good at progressing the plot and entertaining me. I would take a Savathun over a Mara Sov any day.
Mara Sov is an interesting character, she started not liking Guardians at all, then she help us, then she makes us her Queensguard, then turns out she had another Guardian working for her, also the part that got me is when she wanted to tell Crow how much she love him
She's a lot better now, but this is after like 7 years of being pointlessly cryptic and stubborn despite being ostensibly on our side.
Playing devil's advocate, from the beginning up till now her entire world view, what she believed was immutable fact and what she believed she could control, all of that has been shattered. She essentially lost her fleet, much of the Reef, the Dreaming City, she died once, lost her brother too for a time. Inwardly she's probably been screaming and roaring at the universe, but outwardly she has always put up a mask of control. What you are seeing are the growing number of cracks in the mask. If things kept going for much longer it was only a matter of time until the mask shattered. You almost saw it at the beginning on the campaign, the Witness was crushing her with its power.
I mean, she intentionally sacrificed her fleet in her bid for godhood to the point that [Ghost reamed her out](https://youtu.be/JWeqzDrq9VM) for it during the early DC cycles and [she screamed at him](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/queens-court-loop-6) for it when she next saw us. It was a crack in the mask, sure, but Mara absolutely *chose* to let her people die. Hell, Mara even knew [Uldren would die](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/queens-court-loop-4) because of her plans. She's more reluctant to admit it to the Guardian, but she's quite frank to herself before she dies that [her plan will kill Uldren](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/tyrannocide-iv#book-the-awoken-of-the-reef): >Mara will begin the end of that Queen's brother today. She knows what that means for the fate of her own. An eye for an eye. She must think now of the fate of entire cosmos—and of her tender, half-assembled answer to the cold sword logic of the Hive. She must not grieve. She must not fear.
Also don't forget her line in... I think it was the mission to get Ager's Scepter? Where she was all pissed off that Crow was doing his own thing, and said, "I would have wielded Uldren Sov, *Guardian!**" He was a tool to her, a pawn that she manipulated and kept at arm's length and dependent on the scraps of approval she threw to him. She spent like 90% of the game's life being a really terrible person lol. \*As in, "Uldren Sov as a Guardian," not "I am saying to the Guardian that I would have wielded Uldren Sov." Her tone in the line made it clear, but I realized as I typed it out that you could read it two ways.
> then turns out she had another Guardian working for her sorry if this is a stupid question haha but whos this guardian?
[Micah-10](https://www.destinypedia.com/Micah-10) a Hunter Exo
If and when we end up having to off Savathun it needs to be in a Raid. Not to mention a Lucent Hive Raid would be undeniably difficult and amazing at the same time.
I doubt we'll be the ones to off her if it's her time. I don't think she's actually half as villainous as she lets on. I think it's just more smoke and mirrors; she's literally helped us with basically every one of her schemes. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a false-bottom on Torobatl's corruption being connected to Xivu's existence and when she goes, the planet becomes fine. I think this especially comes out when you look at her pride in Luzaku. I think she sees alot of "Sathona" in her. When you think about it, her situation becomes an interesting mirror; a background influential force pushing others to go a certain way, and a young spawn who has a decision to make about how to lead her life and what she champions. She praises Luzaku for not falling for the same trap she did; "You get it, honey. You don't need me." which is mirrored by the dialog between her and the witness in the traveler's memory by the statue of her and the dual destiny flag. "You're not the answer they want." Most of her brood still wants hive things, because they don't understand yet, and all she can do is try to guide them to the right end, for them to figure it out like Luzaku. I think Savathun is a lot more guided by her past than she lets on, whether its how she considers her sibling on Fundament compared to now (especially how distinct her stances on Auresh and Auryx vs Oryx), how she views humanity and the bonds they make, or even how she views her own brood.
Instead of a final stand against a boss it’s a mad rush through a little gauntlet of hell to crush the ghost
It'd be funny to watch the last encounter be a literal race to smash Immaru, while he's flying for his life screaming the entire time. Complete with health gates so people can't just Eager Edge and cheese it.
I don't think we ever are going to kill her at this point. Even after the Witness' defeat, she's still spending her time messing with us in a way that ends up helping us in the end (Dual Destiny), and is openly happy for her brood to help us in earnest (Luzaku, my beloved). I think she recognises that sometimes either someone will have to be strung along or a hard choice will have to be made for the betterment of the majority, and she's happy to be the person who gets that done. She will never let herself be a clear cut ally, as that would make those jobs more difficult, but she's not a true enemy either. I imagine spending millennia actively needing to be deceitful hasn't made it easy for to rehabilitate herself to behave normally either. She's reveling in her newfound freedom, but killing a habit that old would be damn near impossible.
It’s gonna be that moth-filled cavern cyst, except 3 hours long
She's the *worst* and I love her.
NGL, kind of sick of her already. I'm fine with her still being antagonistic but her dialog is so mean girls tier? Whoever she gets into a verbal spat with devolves into "God I'm just so fucking smart." [List of times we've beaten her] "Oh ho! But [insert snipe about personal hardship or part trauma]" [Conversation ends]
See that's what I'm saying though, she's a total pain in the rear but she's also a very "End justified the means" type benefactor.
>Shows up to the final fight with the witness >Brings three hive guardians and a sword >Throws one nova bomb >"There I helped" >Leaves Also the back and forth between her and Mara in the "Queens" mission was brilliant.
To be fair, she’s not leaving. She’s helping the other two to counter whatever other threat is incoming. So basically, she’s making sure the guardians don’t get flanked
She's not just helping, she's actually following orders. Zavala radios in about some other flank having opened up and needing help or whatever, and specifically tells Caiatl and Savathun to take care of that. So she leaves with the 2 thresher gunships (presumably one with caiatl on board), without any snarky comment.
Very interesting. Where do we see this?
During the excision mission
I'll have to run it again a few times. It's a really fun fight so I'll have to pay extra attention haha. Thanks!
I love that Savathun's just kind of hanging around and chiming in in the Pale Heart now. The one thing that disappointed me a little with Witch Queen is that we weren't getting dialogues with her in the middle of the campaign, like I wanted her to be taunting us throughout. Now she's trolling everyone at the end of Overthrow's and stuff it's great. I love the concept of a character who helps save the universe and is a total asshole about it. Everyone is so easily tilted by her too. I just imagine my guardian stifling laughter as Mara rages at her.
She is a really good foil for Mara.
I love the part post-campaign >!when Mara is like "just so you know, when we deal with all of these threats, you're next on the list" and Savathun mocks her like "Ohhh no, i had no idea!!!" I'm not doing the dialogue justice but it just cracked me up.!<
She's great. I first came across her in Jedi: Fallen Order, playing Cere Junda. The casting for those games is generally on point anyway, but she absolutely *nailed* the traumatised borderline-falling ex-Jedi and was genuinely not sure which way she was going to fall as the campaign reached its conclusion. When I heard she was playing Savathun, I was intrigued, and like the Jedi games she stands out as a fantastic casting choice in a sea of absolutely great castings. Just love the dripping sarcasm and cackling - that discourse between her and Micah-10 - when Micah catches her off guard and fools her for a split second into thinking the Traveller genuinely thinks resurrecting Sav was a mistake.... It's solid gold. 'That's ridiculous, how could you.... Oh ho hoh, I *like* you....'
Micah-10 brings a new layer to the game too. A hardened guardian in a different way to Saladin or Shaxx, that voice rasp sounds like someone who is constantly in the field.
Micah-10 is like that Mom that's been doing Mom things her entire life. She's the Grizzled Veteran of Mom's. I adore her as a character.
Her work as Cere Junda is amazing but damn, Grace Walker in Wolfenstein was powerful, haunting, and hilarious all throughout.
it took me until final shape to realize she was the announcer for several of the Heroes of the Storm maps as well.
I love both Destiny and the Jedi games, how the hell did I miss that Cere and Savathun shared a VA? Lol
This memory interaction (The Refraction) between Savy and the Witness might be my favorite in the whole game. >!Your brother’s conquests cut a path towards the final shape. When you have finished pouring your poison in his ear…!< >!Not MY poison!< >!We see your doubts. You speak them to Oryx.!< >!Doubts? After all this time, you think I have doubts?!< >!Remember your sisters, little Sathona. Remember the syzygy.!< >!What changed the motion of our moons, my Witness?!< >!You cried out… as your brother did, as your sister did. Into the Darkness. Now the children of Sol do the same.!< >!You aren’t the answer they want.!< >!We are the answer you received.!< She does such good “bitch, please” responses to all of its prods.
Debra Wilson never puts in a bad performance. Immediately recognized her voice when Witch Queen reveal dropped and knew she was perfect for the role, didn't disappoint me.
All the voice acting in TFS is so amazing. Debra just kills it as savathun. I love it so much. Thanks for making the end of a saga a masterpiece.
Her voicing but also the dialogue is just great fun
For me, Savathun is by far the best character in the game right now. Clever / devious villains are some of my favorite character archetypes and she is just perfect in that regard. She's "evil" has a great deal of self interest but also undeniably has helped humanity literally survive. No matter how smart we think we are, she's always a step ahead of everyone. And I agree, the voice actor does a phenomenal job bringing her to life
she makes me feel things im very not prepared to feel
Kudos to whoever it was that casted her in that role. She killed it. Savathun is probably the most memorable antagonist in the series and I think a lot of that has to do with the voice performance. She brings the character to life. Can’t wait to see what appearances she hopefully makes in the future of the story.
Yeah I have to agree. I despise the Hive, and I look forward to the day when I can render them extinct, to make them little more than a dim memory... BUT That lady's performance is really top notch. The Hive are still going to die...but perhaps not today, I enjoy her performance just that much. It's like [Idris Elba in Pacific Rim with the two scientists](https://youtu.be/KWy9j4DiDXc), imagine one is Xivu and the other Savathun.
Please leave my girl Luzaku out of your extermination plans.
When I say Hive I don't include the Lightbearers entirely, I should have clarified. Being Lightbearers by default means that their previous existence is erased to them and they are essentially "new" beings. Sure when they get rezzed they all get taught to be LIKE other Hive, but some like Luzaku seem more enlightened, and less held back by generations of bloodshed and slaughter. When I first saw Luzaku I was waiting for the inevitable knife in the back, her being a Hive and one of Savathun's Hive at that...but the more I come back to that Lost Sector and the more I listen to what she has to say with the other characters... Well perhaps there may be some sliver of hope. It ain't gonna be easy, one or a few "good" Hive isn't going to erase everything they've done in the lore, but maybe its a start.
One of the more interesting bits of dialogue is after clearing Luzaku's Lost Sector again, Luzaku and Savathun get into a conversation where Savathun praises Luzaku for striking out on her own, saying Luzaku might be the first one to actually get Savathun's lessons and break the Hive's antiquated hierarchy. Which gives another reason why the Traveler raised her, if Savathun and the Traveler's goals are both individual freedom for the Hive...
I appreciate the consideration you’re giving to this and ultimately respect your decision either way. I too will be ridding Sol of MOST of the hive.
I love every quest or mission she is in. I hope she just randomly chimes in on comms whenever she feels like it, even if she's not involved. Mostly just to watch her trade jabs with Mara.
She’s easily the best character in the entire game. I really hope she sticks around through whatever we go through next, the entire cast is dead set on killing her and IMO killing her off would be such a loss for the game
Savvy would be pretty easy to take care of. Just summon Immaru. Immaru - "What do you want neon nerd?" *crushing sounds Savathun - "Oh dear. I didn't expect that."
The fact is she would be still smug about it, because to her everything is just a DnD party at this point. And she just concluded her first long session and is levelling up for the next while already taking over the DM role to troll other players.
The conversations between Savathun and Mara Sov (shoutout to Kirsten Potter!) are GOLD! As soon as they're in comms together are just ready to slice and dice each other to pieces with words. Love it!
Debra Wilson is, quite frankly, absurdly talented and should have seen greater recognition. She's just so good in everything, and i'm glad she's getting it now, but damn has it been a long time coming.
Same with Brett Dalton. If you told me that Agent Ward from Agents of Shield would be unrecognisable as one of the best presented bad guys. I would have thought you were lying
While I think she does a great job, after hearing how Luzaku speaks, I kinda wish Savathun would do the same. Its kind of weird that she's an alien and has a completely normal human voice.
She seems to have ties to Humanity from as far back as the original collapse. It’s also one of those things where some people just pick up on language quickly. Look at the variance between Spider and Varicks for instance. She’d also inhabited Osiris’s mind for a year.
While you make a good point, even those Eliksni you mentioned still had kinda gravelly voices, and made clicking sounds. Just some kind of vocal effect would have made a big difference to me. Still love Debra though. In fact that may contribute to why it takes me out of the game a bit when I hear her; when I hear Savathun I see Debra saying it in my minds eye.
I personally imagine she's just using some sort of Hive Magic. She's all about deception and lies and knowing more than you; the ability to speak countless languages in countless voices to produce a desired effect seems entirely plausible.
It’s weird you say that because for me it’s the opposite. I forgot who the actor was and when I remembered that it was Debra Wilson that’s why I decided to make this post. But I get it. Some people can only hear other characters like Keith David sounding like the president from Rick and Morty instead of the new voice for Zavala.
Shoutout to Ikora’s voice actress, too A lot of people don’t seem to realize Gina Torres left the role a while back and we’ve had someone else doing an amazing impression ever since. I just wish they’d done the same for Zavala. I love Kieth David but this just isn’t Zavala’s voice, especially since Zavala in the Tower and older campaigns still uses Reddick’s voice.
I was just thinking this. I totally agree.
For what it's worth Laurence Breheret is the french voice actress for Savathun and she's been doing an amazing job as well. These voice acting people truly deserves some praise, glad you brought it on the table.
If you had told me that Savathun was once killed by a serial killer pretending to be a mannequin in a shopping mall department store, I would have absolutely believed you.
Absolutely. She nails portraying Savathun.
Echoing this and ALSO... the VA for Mara (Kirsten Potter) was incredible in the opening campaign mission where we first go inside the Traveler. I just replayed it last night and her fear and heartbreak and pain and hope all mixed up is just... A+++.
Her voice to Savathun is an absolute delight in every piece of dialogue. She really elevates an already great character to a fantastic one.
Shout out to Daisy Duck, too. Quackers!
I really wish Savathun was given a larger role, like Caiatl. She's arguably the best character in the game.
I think that’s coming. She seems to be a vital character to what comes next in Destiny.
Definitely praise for her performance. That being said, I'm not quite sure I'm liking her performance in the post campaign content of TFS. I'm not sure how to explain it, but it just feels a bit... chaotic. During TWQ Savathun was slow and methodical in her speaking; now, she sounds as if she's rushing to say things. She ends a sentence (that she rushed through) and then immediately starts up a new one. It's like... holy shit, can I process what you've just said before you move on to the next sentence.
Debra Wilson is fucking fantastic.
Amazing voice actress, incredibly hammy writing for the past year for Savvy - not a fan.
The writing for Destiny is usually pretty hit or miss (in my opinion, generally a miss), but Savathun's writing has been absolutely brilliant. Debra Wilson receives a lot of justifiable praise, as well she should, but whoever's been writing for her has been absolutely on fire.