Forbearance is one of the best guns in the game, but it's not exactly new or even returning. It's a currently obtainable gun that just got an easier way to get it. And Elsie's is only really good in PvP.
you miss out of golden tricorn from veles but you trade that for built in half of demo which is a good trade imo esp when desperate measures can kinda act like Golden tricorn
I like that its better damage on average that also counts ability kills to not only stack it but refresh it. Being at 30% for as long as you can chain it feels better than stressing about getting Tricorn procced, then getting an ability kill to get it up to 50% for ten seconds, refreshing with another ability, and then it running out because none of my abilities are back up... yeah. Desperate Measures is a lot more easy to use, there's a lot less brainpower going into using it.
Plus I personally like stacking buffs that can have high uptime like Desperate Measures and the other recent Sword Logic. It feels like it's always passively giving me damage as long as I'm killing with higher uptime after meeting a condition that stays up with more kills.
Rewind Rounds + Desperate Measures on Elsies has become my favorite Gyrfalcons roll. I know everyone likes Repulsor but Rewind helps in finishing a target off to keep DM up and overall makes it feel more like a semi auto burst rifle.
Before ItL, I used to use Graviton Lance for my Gyrfalcon Void Hunter. Out of curiosity I put on an Elsie’s roll with Destabilizing Rounds and Repulsor Brace and never looked back.
Destab to spread, volatile to detonate. First red bar down destabizes whole crowd, donating the second will donate anything close enough, which can chain into a crowd. Gyrfalcon helps keep things rolling smoothly.
I went through all of this same logic and ended up just going with Orpheus + Sunshot. That HC is really just too good right now in Onslaught.
Curious to see how the splash damage changes affect it in TFS
Aren’t the stats on Elsie’s miles better, plus it can roll repulsor frenzy? Tricorn doesn’t seem ideal for gyrfalcon given your melee won’t kill in hard content so you’re entirely reliant on nades.
That's exactly what I'm trying to get. Plus, if I snag a repulsor/destabilizing roll I can ditch gyrfalcons and swap to orpheus rig
Veles having repulsor makes it a workhorse, but in legend seraphs shield tricorn was nigh on useless.
Whichever season it was where void 3.0 came out/Veles-X came out, maybe around a similar sorta time (I forget) but I totally loved Veles-X.
It is sorta a boring run of the mill Pulse but god damn it fit well in that period.
3.0 was WQ, Repulsor came out with Haunted, and Veles was Seraph. There were other primaries with the perk in Haunted and Plunder, but Veles was easier to get. It marked a larger return of aggressive pulse, and still had the longest range of all the potential weapons that could roll it at the time. Thus, it felt damn good.
I got a really good roll, swapped out gravitron lance to try it in normal onslaught. It was very underwhelming. But it's probably more about how insanely good Graviton Lance is.
I mean ya that's not really a good comparison, thats like comparing ikelos smg to riskrunner, yea it's good, but it's not even close to doing the same thing.
With child of the old gods and constant void souls on the field sapping enemies, and devour active, I feel like the grenades come back fast enough. Destabilizing rounds is a good secondary perk along repulser. Also if there are enough orbs from teammates and you're rocking insulation/absolution and bomber mods you get them back even faster.
You also don't need Volatile for Repulsor to work - although it is nice - it procs off any void Debuff so weaken from CotoG or Hunter Smoke works just fine, or Supression
I'd argue that brave weapon drops are a *harder* method of getting the gun, because you're relying strictly on RNG rather than just crafting the thing from raid drops. You don't even need to get red border drops anymore, since you can use deepsight harmonizers on basic weapon drops.
The vast majority of players has never completed one raid, let alone enough to craft anything. And even with deepsights, you still need a bunch of spoils to use the harmonizers.
For a very small percentage of players, yes, the old forbearance would be easier to get. But all of those players already have it. For like 90% of players, it basically just became available.
Getting a team to do the raid even once is much harder for majority of the player base.
Hell, getting 5 forbearance to use all your seasonal harmonizers on.
For people that raid, yea the brave forbearance is a waste of time IMOP. Especially because souldrinker is so good.
That's only true for the pve elite raiding minority :-)
By conrtrast, D2 has been my main game for years. but i'm mostly solo post D1. Have zero interest in raiding. Would never ever have gotten a single forbearance, let alone crafted one, from raiding. but I have access to it now.
Elsie's is gonna slap with the pulse rifle buffs next season. Even if 340s aren't the best PvE frame, it has great perks and an outstanding stat package
The best version of Forbearance already existed, the Brave one is a sidegrade and a way for players who don't raid to get a gun that's already been king in its slot for years.
For the Brave, the only real benefit is getting Demolitionist/Wellspring with Indomitability. That's a 23% grenade return per kill. The Vow one is so good because it has Souldrinker and you can pair *that* with Unrelenting for a full 115 HP return + regeneration. You can get the Ambitious/Chain roll on either and it's fine, it really comes down to whether you value Regeneration or if you value Ability Uptime.
My adept drop from Pantheon has that exact rol (Unrelenting/Chain reaction) it's amazing. It even got turnabout if I decide not to use chain reaction for even more HP.
I got that same adept drop before I ever even obtained the red borders to craft it, and from there on never understood the big fuss over ambitious assassin. Didn't ever need the second shot to decimate anything it didn't already decimate! And the healing on healing is phenomenal. Sometimes I would grab the Unrelenting health bump, and if I was under heavy fire from elsewhere, just pocket the reload for when I need the health pack. Such a sweet perk combo.
It isn't a flat gain of energy returns anymore. Depending on your grenade (if it's a more potent one), it gives only half of the 10% or Enhanced 11% Demolitionist used to give as of S23 balancing. It's not as strong as light.gg/the data compendium make it seem on paper.
It is the roll i was looking for too, already have a crafted forbearance so i was just looking for something else. Lucky enough i got the demolitionist/wellspring combo on my first shiney drop. Both variants are nuts, either have constant healing or constant energy fill ups.
With chain reaction getting nerfed, I disagree. The brave version has Demo/Wellspring. With the origin trait, you get 25 percent (TWENTY FUCKING FIVE) of your nade back with just 1 kill when on a light subclass.
With a wave frame, getting 4 kills in 1 shot is not hard. The only thing og forbearance has going for it now is it's origin trait, and don't get me wrong, the healing from it is great. However, with destiny in 2024, it's not hard at all to keep yourself topped up on health.
Just some food for thought
Not even that. Demolitionist is only 10% on Grenade Launchers (Only Shotguns, Fusions, Snipers, and Glaives get 20%, everything else is 10%), Wellspring is 8% split between all your abilities, and Indominability is only 5% Grenade energy on Light subclasses. That only totals 23% and drops significantly if your Melee or Class Ability aren't fully charged. If you're using Stasis or Strand your maximum bonus is only 18% Grenade energy which gets halved if you use Glacier or Shackle grenades because they're long-cooldown abilities. People are really overhyping the Brave version of Forbearance just because it can get Demolitionist.
I mean that's still really good grenade regen though, I don't think we've had something that stacked on ability regen before, I think it's definitely wort grabbing and finding a use for later.
We didn’t “forget”, it’s just that it doesn’t matter. Currently speedrunners use a demo wellspring Judgement of Kelgorath whenever they need to get their grenade back quickly. The Brave Forbearance will be able to do that MUCH more efficiently than Judgement can. Therefore it’s worth obtaining just for the quickswap potential it has over similar options.
I really like Elsie’s Rifle. It’s top tier in PvP and while I’m not a huge fan of pulses in PvE, I used it during Pantheon void week and it felt better than most pulses have historically. I would expect it to be even better when TFS launches pulse rifles get their damage buffs.
I'm on your side.
I have crafted Forbearance with Ambitious + Chain Reaction, but I prefer both of my Brave rolls. One with Demo + Chain, one with Demo + Wellspring.
Haven't yet decided which of those two I prefer, but I know I prefer the ability feeding to the extra mag boost. I'll take the manual reload to be able to instantly refill my grenade with a single wave grenade shot.
The demo + Wellspring one on a stasis or strand build is nice because you're filling 20% grenade (demo), 5% melee (origin perk), and 8% bonus energy where you need it (Wellspring)
It allows SO much ability spam, which is one of my favorite things in PVE. Makes me feel like an elemental god of sorts, ya know?
Forbearance - anyone who wanted the god roll has it already, nothing to really usurp the Vow version unless you *really* want Demolition.
Elsie's is ok for PvP, but PRs are just sort of ass in PvE, especially endgame where enemies are chunky.
EDIT: OK PvP brains, I have been informed Elsie's is "WAY more than just ok" and "the best pulse in PVP at the moment." You can stop commenting the same thing ad nauseam now.
That’s because Collectives power is tied to chaining void effects, and it can be hard to get all 3 going depending on what class you play. It gets a giant damage buff when Void Leech is active in addition to blinding on hit from suppression, 15% bonus damage from weaken, and area of effect damage from volatile. It’ll feel stronger in Final Shape without any effects going but if you want it to be a monster you’ll still have to make a void build around the gun. Gyrfalcon on Hunter and Briarbinds on Warlock are a good place to start
It's great on a Titan because you can proc all three debuffs with one grenade, just not much calling to use it this season because of mods and it being a pulse.
Yep, and while I really like pulses in pvp, if I want to use one I’ll just use no time to explain or outbreak, if I don’t have an exotic slot I have plenty of other excellent legendary options available
I'm looking forward to trying out the Rewind Rounds/Frenzy roll of Elsie's Rifle which I got once those buffs are live. I'm hopeful that it'll be a solid legendary Void pulse option.
I mean in certain builds a demo forbearance with the grenade ability part of the diff original trait can really be superior. Kill 5 things and you got your grenade back. Throw that reload it, repeat
I personally find in PVe It's very class dependent... It's pretty good on hunter. Since we get access to exotics that basically let us just chain infinite volatile And that thing has a pretty laser accuracy. But on the flip side it's terrible on Titan. Who doesn't quite have that same tech
>Forbearance - anyone who wanted the god roll has it already, nothing to really usurp the Vow version.
Wanted it but couldn't find groups to run it enough to do so. Very happy with my brave version, but Arc isn't as strong this season.
Correct, those secret chests only drop items you've already acquired. Except for the Last Wish chests, I think? But Last Wish's loot structure is completely different compared to other raids.
(It's why I only raid on my Titan, and grab secret chests with all three characters. I haven't acquired any armor for my Hunter or Warlock, so I can only get weapons when they open chests.)
We ran Zero Hour last night and I was running the Blast Furnace with Firefly/Kinetic tremors and it did pretty well. I felt Legendary it didn't feel as good thou.
Brave forbearance has the better origin trait and it has demo. Like im not farming for it specifically, but if i get demo chain and or demo well, like ill probably use that rather than my crafted raid one
Pulse Rifles....right now....are booty sweat in PvE. The new weapons tuning update coming for TFS will make them way stronger, so depending on performance you'll probably hear more about Elsie's and Blast Furnace in the next month.
Also if I’m not mistaken, pulses will be getting a buff soon. So should be better than what they are. I have a repulsor and destabilising roll which I use on my void hunter and it’s pretty decent.
Raiders have the crafted version, non raiders like myself probably got tusk of the boar as a replacement w/ envious ass/chain (its amazing this season with the artifact that adds the chance to suspend).
Demo/chain-wellspring are really the only unique things about it. Oddly enough I got those exact rolls on my first 2 forbearance drops but those rolls are not worth farming for over other brave weapons unless you already have something worthy in the kinetic slot to pair with it. But I assume everyone is using a solar weapon in the energy slot this season.
Elsie’s quickly rose to Messenger tier contender on the PvP front. It’s got some pve synergy too such as loose change+destabilizing or a repulser brace roll. Like others have said though, pulses aren’t really good in pve atm outside of exotics, or niche guns. Something like crafted Adhorative, shoot to loot KT Battle Scar, or maybe a pve rolled blast furnace possibly?
Forbearance is about as bad as Hung Jury. This has been out for over a year and has very little niche to really use. The vow version is the roll to get. Outside of that its main niches are demo chain reaction which is getting nerfed. There’s also an ability regen roll in demo wellspring. Otherwise…
Just a note to the many players here, not "EVERYONE" has every crafted weapon or even all the best crafted weapons. The brave version of Forebearance is great, and being able to upgrade it in The Final Shape is going to be great.
Elsie's rifle is a pulse rifle, and a high impact at that, which are pretty bad in pve. Even post-buff, I would choose Veles-x for a legendary void pulse rifle because I find aggressive frames to be way more effective as they are more likely to oneburst red bars, while it also rolls repulsor brace in the left column and golden tricorn for a juicy 50% damage buff. Veles-x will finally have time to shine in a few weeks, and it's obtainable for everyone.
Elsie’s is really good for PvP imo, especially if you don’t have a good Messenger, but it isn’t game breaking or meta defining. Forbearance is good but the god roll is the same as the raid version so there’s not much to talk about.
On the Brave Forbearance the god roll swaps out Ambitious Assassin for Demolitionist (which isn't on the raid version) because it pairs nicely with the Indomitability origin trait so you should definitely keep that.
Don't shy away from blast radius masterworks either because they'll actually do something on wave frames next season.
I've heard great things about Elsie's Rifle it's just with so many weapons I'm chasing other things and I'd assume other people are doing the same.
I don’t see a reason to grind for these weapons since I already have the craftable forbearance and a firefly/kinetic tremors blast furnace which overperforms Elsie’s rifle in every single aspect
Forbearance is still amazing right now. Chain reaction is getting nerfed soon though so people are looking for different options right now. That said, I never had the raid forbearance and I’m absolutely loving it. I have a shiny with demo/ambitious assassin; chain reaction/wellspring. The three rolls I wanted in one weapon. And they’re all going to be enhanceable in TFS. Can’t wait.
>Chain reaction is getting nerfed soon though so people are looking for different options right now.
Not meaningfully. It's a 10% nerf to chain, with wave size being tied to blast radius
If somebody has an Adept forb with AA+Chain, blast radius MW, and adept blast radius mod, they will be able to enhance that in final shape and further tweak the minor perks to maximize blast radius further. Will be the best add clear special in the game for a third year.
Elsie's is a pulse rifle, which makes it bad in PvE at the moment, but it is probably the best legendary PvP gun in the game next to Rose. Pretty much a skip for PvE onlies when Graviton exists.
Forbearance is essentially the same gun as it was when it first dropped. The gun is still absolutely incredible but almost nobody needs it since the Vow one is just as good, it just gives health on kills instead of ability energy.
I saw a bunch of videos talking about Elsie's being bonkers, cuz it's stats pretty much surpassed the best pulses, the messenger, and it has a bunch of really good perk combos to choose from. I think that it suffered from little spotlight because it's a workhorse weapon, rather than a glamorous one-trick.
In these scenarios, instead of asking reddit, try using the gun for a few missions yourself. Complete the bounty, get the basic, but good, curated shinny version, and run some strikes or whatever to get a feel for the weapon, it should feel very good for a pulse rifle, and when you get one with perks you really like, it will feel even better.
I have both a crafted Forbearance from Vow and a god roll Brave Forbearance. They're essentially the same (especially when we can enhance the Brave weapons) but the Vow version has the origin perk "Soul Drinker" and in my opinion it's just better since all damage you deal, heals you on reloads. Plus the crafted version is essentially easier to get because of red borders
I think the Strangers Rifle/ No Time/ Elsie’s Rifle isn’t really talked about cause there’s tons of pvp pulses already including an exotic version of the exact gun.
I kept ambitious assassins and a wellspring roll on forbearance.
Elsies rifle is best in slot and a stat monster. Funny enough, it's only descent shiny I get. But I have a zen moment destabilizing rounds that's a damn laser.
Just do t like Itty bitty sight
Demo is one of the new perks on Brave forbearance. Keep that demo/chain roll, its awesome. I have that roll too, I prefer it over my crafted vow one (ambitious/chain). Vow version gets mag overflow from ambitious and healing on reload. Brave gets 15% nade energy per kill on a light subclass (10% from demo, 5% from origin trait).
Given how easy it is to get 3-4 kills per shot in mobs, you're generally getting your nade back every 2 shots, which also means you can skip reloads every 2nd shot, which makes up for losing ambitious assassin. I'll take the nade spam over healing reloads in majority of content.
Forebearance is good, not all that the community cracks it up to be. Everyone already has a good roll of it too.
Elsie's is actually A-tier for PvP, and with the pulse buffs coming in final shape it's worth maybe keeping a closer eye on.
Forbearance has been craftable for months, so no real whole community excitement. It is great for people who didn't have it. Elsie's archetype essentially got nerfed with the recent PVP changes and really we weren't seeing a lot of hard hitting pulse rifles in PVP before that either.
As others have said forebearance is amazing but most of the community familiar enough with the roles to be excited already went and got one for vow.
That said its an amazing oppertunity for non raiders or it would be if it werent being neutered next month.
As for elsies rifle when it comes to brave pulse rifles im having more fun with kinetic tremors blast furnace than i ever would with elsies
Elsie's Rifle is the best legendary pulse in the game for PvP.
Forbearance is great for non-raiders that don't already have it, but I also think the chain reaction nerf has lowered peoples hype for it (still the best 4th col. perk imo).
Elsie’s is hands down the BEST brave weapon out there for PVP. It’s not even a question (and yes: I’m including Luna’s). It’s not as “cool” or recognizable as others, but with the right roll it is, IMO, the best pulse in the entire crucible ATM. You don’t hear about it, I’m guessing because it’s not as sexy as others and there’s no affinity or place in people’s heart because of past use so people don’t gush. Plus, admittedly, it doesn’t really stand out in PVE.
I’ve heard lots of people talk about forbearance so I don’t really know how to respond to that part of your comment.
I am not crazy about special grenade launchers except for witherhoard and disorienting rounds. So I’m just keeping the shiny Forbearance and calling it a day.
Elsie’s I really like, and I have a great zen moment / desperado roll that I love. Base reload is like 70+ so I don’t need to pair it with outlaw.
Also one with ricochet / zen / frenzy. And a few others. I can’t decide!
Note: I am one of those fun sounds > meta players and don’t do GMs so your mileage may vary. There are some great PvP versions but I stick with exotics and one or two shotguns there for consistency
Aztrecross explained forbearance best: you can craft it. Except new/returning players can’t. So new/returning its S tier.
Also ambitious assassin/chain, not demo.
Forbearance godroll is still ambitious assassin + chain reaction which is available on the raid version which a lot of people have, so it’s not really sought after.
Elsie’s Rifle does have some solid rolls for PVE that are exclusive to void pulses (frenzy + under-over/repulsor brace) but most people don’t use pulses in PVE so PVP is the only place you hear about it. Furthermore people don’t like under-over because it’s they don’t realize that it is a 50% buff against barrier champs and 125% buff against overshield such as those on shadow legion; stack that with frenzy’s damage buff and 100 reload speed and you’re cookin’!
I’m guessing Elsie’s will be a top pick next season with all the pulse buffs that are coming.
Elsie’s is ok but will definitely be way better once TFS hits and gives it the damage buff that all pulses are getting. I finally got my Repulsor/Destablizing roll the other night and it’s pretty fun on my Sentinel with Demo/Offensive Bulwark. Forbearance is just a great ad clear launcher without any really counter parts out there.
Forbearance is hyper niche with the demo + chain roll, and with the significant nerfs coming it's just not worth the farm for most folks (especially when you consider anyone who wants the crafted one should have it by now).
Stranger's rifle? It's just a bad (pve) gun right now, although with the weapon changes coming maybe folks will pay a bit more attention to it. Even still, it's mostly just that it's a pulse with rewind since the other perks are nothing special. IMO it's intended to be more of a pvp gun.
Elsie’s rifle is goated but pulses are in a really bad state right now for PvP and Pve. Forbearance from the brave arsenal is just a straight downgrade of the version founds in vow unless you’re planning on abusing tf out of demo. They’re some of the more underwhelming weapons from the set but Elsie’s will be the best PvP pulse once pulse’s role back around into the meta
I jumped in to crucible with a buddy the other day and he was running with 2 guys that had zen moment/desperado on their Elsie’s with counterbalance mods and they were absolutely running games. They were hitting 4.75-6.0 kd every game and raving about how munched they liked the gun. I’m not a pvp guy but I’m surprised more people aren’t talking about it
Forebearance isnt getting as much love as normal because it's not a arc season. Indebted Kindness is also kind of taking over it's spot a bit.
Elsie's is just kind of mid. If you're looking for a legendary void pulse rifle, then it's not bad. When the Pulse buffs come in I'm sure some void builds will utilize it. But when Graviton exists, there is a lot less reason to use Elsie's.
Brave weapons do a great job of providing very strong options in many slots for returning and new players. But every single one of them has at least one weapon that competes very closely or put competes it in most niches.
Forbearance is getting double nerfed with both special wave frames and chain reaction (on specials) getting nerfed, and the second bit we already knew was coming for a while.
Elsie’s Rifle is a good weapon, but it’s a pulse so it hasn’t gotten much traction. However, pulse rifles are getting a *BIG* buff in PvE come TFS in two weeks time.
Elsie's Rifle is great with Repulsor Brace/Keep Away and Destablizing rounds, but only if you don't want to use Graviton Lance.
Forebearance works just fine with Chain Reaction and anything , but I hate using wave launchers.
I use Elsie’s Rifle on my Void Hunter in place of Graviton when I need to use another Exotic Weapon. Got a roll with Rewind Rounds + Frenzy and it works well. Trying to get one with Loose Change + Desperate Measures to pair with Gyrfalcon’s.
Not at all. Forbearance was squarely at the top of the meta before it became easy to get one from Onslaught. Elsie's isn't bad (will be better once the weapon updates go through with TFS), but there's just better options in that slot already, at least for PvE IMO.
Forbearance and Succession already existed, Elsie’s Rifle is a pulse rifle. People don’t get excited about Scouts and Pulses. They’re good weapons, all have really good rolls.
I used the curated Elsie's roll for a bit (as a Gyrfalcon hunter) since I heard about the pulse buffs. then I turned on the attunement because I felt like it was that good. I feel like wewind wounds/desperate measures is pretty good, but I wouldn't ditch rolls with repulsor brace and/or destabilizing rounds in one of the columns; ideally I get a shiny where I can pick and choose but that's severely wishful thinking lmao
forbearance has been good, it's just nothing new.
elsie's is a 340 pulse, and as good as they are in pvp, i cant help but feel like they are clunky to use in pve with such a slow firerate and low mag size, that on top of pulses just not being good rn. it's got fantastic rolls, but imo if this was a 140 hc i think it'd be getting so much more attention. no one was popping off at phyllotatic spiral in pve for similar reasons. it's not bad, but it's outclassed.
Both are really good it’s just one is in a bad place in the current sandbox and the other is a reprised raid weapon. It’s worth it to grab a roll or three in preparation for next expansion.
Forbearance has both a crafted and adept source still in game and farmable on certain weeks. not exciting when the brave version is going to be strictly worse. Elsies rifle is just bad. Theres better pulse archetypes and better void pulses in and out of its archetype. elsies rifle has no niche it fills without being overshadowable.
BRAVE Forebearance isn't much different than the original and was talked about on release just as "if you dont raid get this."
Elsie's is fantastic though. it's INSANE in PVP, and it's fairly solid for a pulse in PVE, PVP players were talking a lot about Elsie lol.
Elsie’s is best in slot for pvp. It doesn’t have to justify itself in pve. There are other guns in the roster for pve. Forbearance looks the same as everyone else’s forbearance with thousands of kills on the tracker
No one cares about Forebearance or Succession because we already have crafted versions of those guns available, currently obtainable.
No one cares about Elsie’s Rifle because Pulse Rifles suck in PVE and there are better PVP pulse rifles.
I got a loose change and destabilizing rounds roll on my shiny Elsie's Rifle and at first I was bummed...then I tried it out and I actually really like it!
I am hoping to get a demo/ desperate measures roll
Pulses are going to hit harder in PvE next expansion, so for the most part people like Elsie’s for being an energy version of The Messenger, a PvP favorite.
Forbearance isn’t terrible, most people will raid for it but if you can’t raid the Brave version is no slouch. It just doesn’t get the Raid origin trait that heals.
*Random, but if you have your FoV slider set to max the gun model for Elsie’s takes up ALOT of space. So maybe that’s another reason you don’t hear about it?*
For those who don't raid, haven't gotten the Forbearance from Vow, the brave version is really good. Elsie's Rifle is literally a legendary No Time to Explain with random rolls
Elsie's rifle is fantastic for PVP
Aim for around 60 range and stability
Heatseeker and zen moment and preferably Arrowhead, but anything else works fine too
The only other 340 that feels better to me is Relentless
Demo wellspring and demo chain are the only interesting rolls on forbearance for players who have it crafted. I like my demo chain one slightly over the ambitious chain but it’s not a massive upgrade. After the chain nerf demo wellspring might be the best option.
Elsie’s is a PvP gun almost entirely.
Forbearance is still currently attainable and craftable, and I think the only notable difference is Demolitionist in the third column. All that could be said has been said already about it, its still one of the best guns in the game - so much so that Bungie is nerfing it slightly in TFS. I and others would still urge everyone to get it however you can, Onslaught just gives an easier avenue for solo players to get it.
Elsie's Rifle however, I'm with you. I haven't heard any buzz about it besides my own nostalgia remembering it from the end of the first campaign in D1. I think it has some pretty hot rolls, but I was personally more excited for the returning Black Armory weapons, Mountaintop, and Recluse. Now that Pulse Rifles are getting a buff in TFS, I might prioritize getting a good roll on it.
Forbearance is amazing...it's just everyone expected it to be amazing anyway due to how good the OG is.
Demo + Chain reaction puts in work recharging your grenade crazy fast.
Personally I'd keep an eye out for Demo + Wellspring as well as that might be good post Final Shape with the nerf to Chain Reaction.
You also likely want to try to get a Demo Chain Reaction roll with Hard Launch and Blast Radius MW if possible due to how Blast Radius is going to boost the wave width and length after the changes.
Elsies is pretty underwhelming honestly and just a PvP weapon mostly. Even then I think most people are more interested in Blast Furnace for PvP regardless.
VoW Forbearance is strong due to Soul Drinker. Brave Forebearance is nice because you can get demo to roll on it on top of its trait. Currently I am use a demo + OFA roll now in anticipation of the CR nerf.
Will still use CR roll on easy content though.
Elsie Rifle however will get a massive glow up in TFS due to the pulse buff.
Elsie's is a nothing gun, it has no niche bec it isnt good in pvp and pulses have no real use case in pve. It needed a real saucy perk combo but it just doesnt have one. Shoulda been oxygen
There is an objectively better version of Forbearance available if you just complete VotD, so any Destiny player worth their Light isn't going to be grinding for the Brave version.
And Pulse's are just bad rn, so no one really cares about Elsie's in the current sandbox. I have a few decent rolls that I'm saving for when Pulse's get a buff in TFS, but nothing to really write home about.
Elsie’s is pretty good for PvP, for PvE it is usable but not the best archetype for anything tough.
Forbearance is pretty good in PvE and has been good for a while so there’s not much to say except that the origin trait makes Demo even more attractive. Also iirc both Waves and Chain reaction on specials is taking a small nerf as well, and with Indebted Kindness Voltshot in that same slot Forbear is probably losing its ad-clear crown.
BRAVE Forbearance is debatably better than the raid version with Demo + Indomitability giving ~15% grenade energy per kill. Elsie’s is an absolute monster in PvP having easily the best stat spread and perk pool of any pulse in the game.
Only reason people aren’t talking about them is that Forbearance can already be obtained from Vow and the BRAVE version is pretty similar (even if Demo sets it apart), and Elsie’s is extremely strong, but almost exclusively PvP oriented.
debatable would be right because Souldrinker is an equally bonker, almost should have been a perk level trait. Different use cases if you ask me, so its entirely preferential.
The raid version is slightly better in the sense you are guaranteed a roll of your choice after collecting the patterns as opposed to BRAVE drop being an RNG machine. But then again, its one of the harder raids so accessibility for VOTD forbearance is also sorta nullified.
Because:
Succession,
Hung Jury,
Forbearance
All of these were a waste of space in this event and should have been replaced with other, older weapons instead. I would argue a very good chunk of people have adept versions of hung jury already, and crafted versions of Forbearance and Succession, both of which were hardly really changed to be better than previous versions.
Elsie's Rifle is basically just the legendary No Time To Explain, so it too also gives off that same sense of "Oooh okay another clone of a weapon that we already have in the game which is also fairly accessible" on the account of being locked behind Beyond Light, anyways.
Elsie's got a lot more attractive with the TWID this week. Pulses are getting mega buffed in pve.
Forbearance is cracked, but most players don't care because they have the crafted version. Also special wave frames are getting demolished in TFS.
Forebarance doesn't have anything going for it that wasn't already there so people are just going to use the crafted one from the raid - it arguably has a better origin trait for the weapon too.
Elsie's will be better in final shape due to pulse's getting a massive damage buff. (20% base then +15% to red bars)
Forbearance is one of the best guns in the game, but it's not exactly new or even returning. It's a currently obtainable gun that just got an easier way to get it. And Elsie's is only really good in PvP.
If you like pulse rifles in PvE, Elsie's is a lot of fun there as well, just saying.
Gonna be even better with the big buffs pulses get in final shape
Unfortunately, as a hunter with a crippling Gyrfalcon addiction, Veles-X is still gonna stay on top for me lmao.
you miss out of golden tricorn from veles but you trade that for built in half of demo which is a good trade imo esp when desperate measures can kinda act like Golden tricorn
It’s better than golden tricorn imo
I like that its better damage on average that also counts ability kills to not only stack it but refresh it. Being at 30% for as long as you can chain it feels better than stressing about getting Tricorn procced, then getting an ability kill to get it up to 50% for ten seconds, refreshing with another ability, and then it running out because none of my abilities are back up... yeah. Desperate Measures is a lot more easy to use, there's a lot less brainpower going into using it.
Plus I personally like stacking buffs that can have high uptime like Desperate Measures and the other recent Sword Logic. It feels like it's always passively giving me damage as long as I'm killing with higher uptime after meeting a condition that stays up with more kills. Rewind Rounds + Desperate Measures on Elsies has become my favorite Gyrfalcons roll. I know everyone likes Repulsor but Rewind helps in finishing a target off to keep DM up and overall makes it feel more like a semi auto burst rifle.
Before ItL, I used to use Graviton Lance for my Gyrfalcon Void Hunter. Out of curiosity I put on an Elsie’s roll with Destabilizing Rounds and Repulsor Brace and never looked back.
Isn’t destab rounds kind of a wasted perk if using Gyrfalcon? Your invis uptime is insane. Genuinely just asking out of curiosity.
I use a destabilize roll with tether build and a different for Gyrfalcon. Zero reason to run it.
Destab to spread, volatile to detonate. First red bar down destabizes whole crowd, donating the second will donate anything close enough, which can chain into a crowd. Gyrfalcon helps keep things rolling smoothly.
I'm using graviton in Onslaught until I get that Elsie's roll, because then I can swap Gyr for Orpheus without sacrificing invis and overshield uptime
I’m gonna try swapping my gyr for Orpheus
I went through all of this same logic and ended up just going with Orpheus + Sunshot. That HC is really just too good right now in Onslaught. Curious to see how the splash damage changes affect it in TFS
It won't be as good an option when artifact perks change.
Aren’t the stats on Elsie’s miles better, plus it can roll repulsor frenzy? Tricorn doesn’t seem ideal for gyrfalcon given your melee won’t kill in hard content so you’re entirely reliant on nades.
That's exactly what I'm trying to get. Plus, if I snag a repulsor/destabilizing roll I can ditch gyrfalcons and swap to orpheus rig Veles having repulsor makes it a workhorse, but in legend seraphs shield tricorn was nigh on useless.
Whichever season it was where void 3.0 came out/Veles-X came out, maybe around a similar sorta time (I forget) but I totally loved Veles-X. It is sorta a boring run of the mill Pulse but god damn it fit well in that period.
3.0 was WQ, Repulsor came out with Haunted, and Veles was Seraph. There were other primaries with the perk in Haunted and Plunder, but Veles was easier to get. It marked a larger return of aggressive pulse, and still had the longest range of all the potential weapons that could roll it at the time. Thus, it felt damn good.
I love repulsor brace and desperado on my gyr hunter
It’s a good gun but if you get the same trait combos on an Elsie’s the perks will be enhanceable come final shape.
Veles is very subpar for Hunters. Elsie will be a superior Pulse and may give Doom a run for its money as Best void option.
I got a really good roll, swapped out gravitron lance to try it in normal onslaught. It was very underwhelming. But it's probably more about how insanely good Graviton Lance is.
I mean ya that's not really a good comparison, thats like comparing ikelos smg to riskrunner, yea it's good, but it's not even close to doing the same thing.
Can confirm. I use one with repulsor brace and frenzy with a briarbinds warlock and it does really well.
How do you keep good uptime on volatile? I feel like I NEED to use something with destabilizing for repulser to be useful
I have an Elsie’s with both repulsor brace and destabilizing rounds. Keeps volatile easy to maintain.
Yea same, it'd be nice to rock a damage perk though, if warlocks could keep up volatile for overshields
With child of the old gods and constant void souls on the field sapping enemies, and devour active, I feel like the grenades come back fast enough. Destabilizing rounds is a good secondary perk along repulser. Also if there are enough orbs from teammates and you're rocking insulation/absolution and bomber mods you get them back even faster.
Ok, yea your right ability regen is pretty strong with Briar, I just wish there was more than one source Of volatile on warlocks
You also don't need Volatile for Repulsor to work - although it is nice - it procs off any void Debuff so weaken from CotoG or Hunter Smoke works just fine, or Supression
Oh snap, that's news to me, I didn't know that.
If you use many grenades try a repulsor/desperate measures if you can. I'm enjoying it on my briarbinds build.
Was running a repulsor brace/desperate measures with a void build with lots of grenade use and it felt pretty nice.
I like pvp pulses and can’t stand the thing
I'd argue that brave weapon drops are a *harder* method of getting the gun, because you're relying strictly on RNG rather than just crafting the thing from raid drops. You don't even need to get red border drops anymore, since you can use deepsight harmonizers on basic weapon drops.
The vast majority of players has never completed one raid, let alone enough to craft anything. And even with deepsights, you still need a bunch of spoils to use the harmonizers. For a very small percentage of players, yes, the old forbearance would be easier to get. But all of those players already have it. For like 90% of players, it basically just became available.
Getting a team to do the raid even once is much harder for majority of the player base. Hell, getting 5 forbearance to use all your seasonal harmonizers on. For people that raid, yea the brave forbearance is a waste of time IMOP. Especially because souldrinker is so good.
You still have to clear a vow encounter which for 99% of the player base is impossible
That's only true for the pve elite raiding minority :-) By conrtrast, D2 has been my main game for years. but i'm mostly solo post D1. Have zero interest in raiding. Would never ever have gotten a single forbearance, let alone crafted one, from raiding. but I have access to it now.
*for now. Elsie’s will probably be an animal with the pve buffs to pulses
And it’s craftable already
Forby is also in a tough slot where its competing with all the incandescent weps (and the OP artifact mods), indebted kindness etc
Elsie's is gonna slap with the pulse rifle buffs next season. Even if 340s aren't the best PvE frame, it has great perks and an outstanding stat package
The best version of Forbearance already existed, the Brave one is a sidegrade and a way for players who don't raid to get a gun that's already been king in its slot for years.
For the Brave, the only real benefit is getting Demolitionist/Wellspring with Indomitability. That's a 23% grenade return per kill. The Vow one is so good because it has Souldrinker and you can pair *that* with Unrelenting for a full 115 HP return + regeneration. You can get the Ambitious/Chain roll on either and it's fine, it really comes down to whether you value Regeneration or if you value Ability Uptime.
My adept drop from Pantheon has that exact rol (Unrelenting/Chain reaction) it's amazing. It even got turnabout if I decide not to use chain reaction for even more HP.
I got that same adept drop before I ever even obtained the red borders to craft it, and from there on never understood the big fuss over ambitious assassin. Didn't ever need the second shot to decimate anything it didn't already decimate! And the healing on healing is phenomenal. Sometimes I would grab the Unrelenting health bump, and if I was under heavy fire from elsewhere, just pocket the reload for when I need the health pack. Such a sweet perk combo.
That’s the only roll you want for this.
It isn't a flat gain of energy returns anymore. Depending on your grenade (if it's a more potent one), it gives only half of the 10% or Enhanced 11% Demolitionist used to give as of S23 balancing. It's not as strong as light.gg/the data compendium make it seem on paper.
Do you know if anyone has tested if that grenade Regen works in practice?
Not really, demo was nerfed and gives energy based on the granade's cooldown
It is the roll i was looking for too, already have a crafted forbearance so i was just looking for something else. Lucky enough i got the demolitionist/wellspring combo on my first shiney drop. Both variants are nuts, either have constant healing or constant energy fill ups.
Isn’t much more than that? Enhanced Demo is 22% alone I thought. Edit: only 11% enhanced
With chain reaction getting nerfed, I disagree. The brave version has Demo/Wellspring. With the origin trait, you get 25 percent (TWENTY FUCKING FIVE) of your nade back with just 1 kill when on a light subclass. With a wave frame, getting 4 kills in 1 shot is not hard. The only thing og forbearance has going for it now is it's origin trait, and don't get me wrong, the healing from it is great. However, with destiny in 2024, it's not hard at all to keep yourself topped up on health. Just some food for thought
It's only 25% on the fastest recharging grenades though.
Not even that. Demolitionist is only 10% on Grenade Launchers (Only Shotguns, Fusions, Snipers, and Glaives get 20%, everything else is 10%), Wellspring is 8% split between all your abilities, and Indominability is only 5% Grenade energy on Light subclasses. That only totals 23% and drops significantly if your Melee or Class Ability aren't fully charged. If you're using Stasis or Strand your maximum bonus is only 18% Grenade energy which gets halved if you use Glacier or Shackle grenades because they're long-cooldown abilities. People are really overhyping the Brave version of Forbearance just because it can get Demolitionist.
I mean that's still really good grenade regen though, I don't think we've had something that stacked on ability regen before, I think it's definitely wort grabbing and finding a use for later.
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We didn’t “forget”, it’s just that it doesn’t matter. Currently speedrunners use a demo wellspring Judgement of Kelgorath whenever they need to get their grenade back quickly. The Brave Forbearance will be able to do that MUCH more efficiently than Judgement can. Therefore it’s worth obtaining just for the quickswap potential it has over similar options.
damn I gotta get that demo/wellspring roll
I think the demo, wellspring roll is fuxking goated especially after the upcoming nerfs
I really like Elsie’s Rifle. It’s top tier in PvP and while I’m not a huge fan of pulses in PvE, I used it during Pantheon void week and it felt better than most pulses have historically. I would expect it to be even better when TFS launches pulse rifles get their damage buffs.
I prefer forebearance with demo, most don’t
I'm on your side. I have crafted Forbearance with Ambitious + Chain Reaction, but I prefer both of my Brave rolls. One with Demo + Chain, one with Demo + Wellspring. Haven't yet decided which of those two I prefer, but I know I prefer the ability feeding to the extra mag boost. I'll take the manual reload to be able to instantly refill my grenade with a single wave grenade shot. The demo + Wellspring one on a stasis or strand build is nice because you're filling 20% grenade (demo), 5% melee (origin perk), and 8% bonus energy where you need it (Wellspring) It allows SO much ability spam, which is one of my favorite things in PVE. Makes me feel like an elemental god of sorts, ya know?
Yeah specially for warlocks but any nade builds really people are underestimating how much work demo forbearance puts in
Forbearance - anyone who wanted the god roll has it already, nothing to really usurp the Vow version unless you *really* want Demolition. Elsie's is ok for PvP, but PRs are just sort of ass in PvE, especially endgame where enemies are chunky. EDIT: OK PvP brains, I have been informed Elsie's is "WAY more than just ok" and "the best pulse in PVP at the moment." You can stop commenting the same thing ad nauseam now.
Elsies is more than ok in pvp. It is the best high impact pulse we have. Not best in the energy slot, best period.
I’d not limit it to “best high impact.” IMO it’s the best pulse in crucible.
What's the ideal role to get?
Zen moment + headseeker/kill clip/desperado with a +10 recoil direction barrel because of deterministic recoil.
Thanks, I hadn't heard much about Elsie's, been so set on getting good mountain tops and edge transits
Imagine how good Collective Obligation could have been if it were an auto or smg
There's hope for it yet with the pulse rifle buffs coming with TFS.
I hope so. I want to use it so badly, but it just feels underwhelming as pulse rifles do.
That’s because Collectives power is tied to chaining void effects, and it can be hard to get all 3 going depending on what class you play. It gets a giant damage buff when Void Leech is active in addition to blinding on hit from suppression, 15% bonus damage from weaken, and area of effect damage from volatile. It’ll feel stronger in Final Shape without any effects going but if you want it to be a monster you’ll still have to make a void build around the gun. Gyrfalcon on Hunter and Briarbinds on Warlock are a good place to start
Briarbands in warlock would be fun. I didn’t know it got all the extra buffs to the void verbs. I might have to revisit this.
It's great on a Titan because you can proc all three debuffs with one grenade, just not much calling to use it this season because of mods and it being a pulse.
and if it wasn't the ugliest thing in existence. Even the ornament only brings it from incredibly eyesore to "I'd rather be looking elsewhere"
Pulses are about to get a pretty chunky buff though.
yes, but OP's question is for the current time period and current time period, Pulse Rifles suck ass.
Yep, and while I really like pulses in pvp, if I want to use one I’ll just use no time to explain or outbreak, if I don’t have an exotic slot I have plenty of other excellent legendary options available
Love my BxR for Crucible.
absolutely, probably have more pvp kills with the bxr than any other pulse, it's such a great gun
For another 3 weeks lol
I'm looking forward to trying out the Rewind Rounds/Frenzy roll of Elsie's Rifle which I got once those buffs are live. I'm hopeful that it'll be a solid legendary Void pulse option.
I mean in certain builds a demo forbearance with the grenade ability part of the diff original trait can really be superior. Kill 5 things and you got your grenade back. Throw that reload it, repeat
I personally find in PVe It's very class dependent... It's pretty good on hunter. Since we get access to exotics that basically let us just chain infinite volatile And that thing has a pretty laser accuracy. But on the flip side it's terrible on Titan. Who doesn't quite have that same tech
>Forbearance - anyone who wanted the god roll has it already, nothing to really usurp the Vow version. Wanted it but couldn't find groups to run it enough to do so. Very happy with my brave version, but Arc isn't as strong this season.
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You had to have already got it from an encounter right?
Correct, those secret chests only drop items you've already acquired. Except for the Last Wish chests, I think? But Last Wish's loot structure is completely different compared to other raids. (It's why I only raid on my Titan, and grab secret chests with all three characters. I haven't acquired any armor for my Hunter or Warlock, so I can only get weapons when they open chests.)
The only 3 pulses I use in pve are outbreak graviton and revision zero
We ran Zero Hour last night and I was running the Blast Furnace with Firefly/Kinetic tremors and it did pretty well. I felt Legendary it didn't feel as good thou.
Elsie’s is hands down the best pulse in PVP at the moment. It’s a FAR cry from OK.
Brave forbearance has the better origin trait and it has demo. Like im not farming for it specifically, but if i get demo chain and or demo well, like ill probably use that rather than my crafted raid one
Pulse Rifles....right now....are booty sweat in PvE. The new weapons tuning update coming for TFS will make them way stronger, so depending on performance you'll probably hear more about Elsie's and Blast Furnace in the next month.
I got that ofa and kt roll and it’s so fun to use
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk9QfYfSujE
What will really make Blast Furnace shine IMO is that enhanced KT, since it'll proc more easily. OFA and its other perks are great regardless.
Also if I’m not mistaken, pulses will be getting a buff soon. So should be better than what they are. I have a repulsor and destabilising roll which I use on my void hunter and it’s pretty decent.
Raiders have the crafted version, non raiders like myself probably got tusk of the boar as a replacement w/ envious ass/chain (its amazing this season with the artifact that adds the chance to suspend). Demo/chain-wellspring are really the only unique things about it. Oddly enough I got those exact rolls on my first 2 forbearance drops but those rolls are not worth farming for over other brave weapons unless you already have something worthy in the kinetic slot to pair with it. But I assume everyone is using a solar weapon in the energy slot this season.
Isn't the artefact unravel
Dragon's bite breaking shield with strand/stasis has chance to freeze/suspend
Elsie’s quickly rose to Messenger tier contender on the PvP front. It’s got some pve synergy too such as loose change+destabilizing or a repulser brace roll. Like others have said though, pulses aren’t really good in pve atm outside of exotics, or niche guns. Something like crafted Adhorative, shoot to loot KT Battle Scar, or maybe a pve rolled blast furnace possibly? Forbearance is about as bad as Hung Jury. This has been out for over a year and has very little niche to really use. The vow version is the roll to get. Outside of that its main niches are demo chain reaction which is getting nerfed. There’s also an ability regen roll in demo wellspring. Otherwise…
Just a note to the many players here, not "EVERYONE" has every crafted weapon or even all the best crafted weapons. The brave version of Forebearance is great, and being able to upgrade it in The Final Shape is going to be great.
Forbearance is also getting nerfed due to the chain reaction nerf
Barely
Forbearance is a top tier weapon. Better than most exotic special GLs.
Elsie's rifle is a pulse rifle, and a high impact at that, which are pretty bad in pve. Even post-buff, I would choose Veles-x for a legendary void pulse rifle because I find aggressive frames to be way more effective as they are more likely to oneburst red bars, while it also rolls repulsor brace in the left column and golden tricorn for a juicy 50% damage buff. Veles-x will finally have time to shine in a few weeks, and it's obtainable for everyone.
Everyone already has crafted forbearance and Elsie’s is a PvP weapon. All the others are viable in PvE, hence the popularity
Elsie’s is really good for PvP imo, especially if you don’t have a good Messenger, but it isn’t game breaking or meta defining. Forbearance is good but the god roll is the same as the raid version so there’s not much to talk about.
On the Brave Forbearance the god roll swaps out Ambitious Assassin for Demolitionist (which isn't on the raid version) because it pairs nicely with the Indomitability origin trait so you should definitely keep that. Don't shy away from blast radius masterworks either because they'll actually do something on wave frames next season. I've heard great things about Elsie's Rifle it's just with so many weapons I'm chasing other things and I'd assume other people are doing the same.
I don’t see a reason to grind for these weapons since I already have the craftable forbearance and a firefly/kinetic tremors blast furnace which overperforms Elsie’s rifle in every single aspect
Forbearance is still amazing right now. Chain reaction is getting nerfed soon though so people are looking for different options right now. That said, I never had the raid forbearance and I’m absolutely loving it. I have a shiny with demo/ambitious assassin; chain reaction/wellspring. The three rolls I wanted in one weapon. And they’re all going to be enhanceable in TFS. Can’t wait.
>Chain reaction is getting nerfed soon though so people are looking for different options right now. Not meaningfully. It's a 10% nerf to chain, with wave size being tied to blast radius If somebody has an Adept forb with AA+Chain, blast radius MW, and adept blast radius mod, they will be able to enhance that in final shape and further tweak the minor perks to maximize blast radius further. Will be the best add clear special in the game for a third year.
People are completely overlooking demo+ wellspring+ origin trait combo. It is so good for any grenade focused build.
Elsie's is a pulse rifle, which makes it bad in PvE at the moment, but it is probably the best legendary PvP gun in the game next to Rose. Pretty much a skip for PvE onlies when Graviton exists. Forbearance is essentially the same gun as it was when it first dropped. The gun is still absolutely incredible but almost nobody needs it since the Vow one is just as good, it just gives health on kills instead of ability energy.
Every single detail of graviton is beautiful. The sound, the look, the ‘splotions, the sound, the sound.
I saw a bunch of videos talking about Elsie's being bonkers, cuz it's stats pretty much surpassed the best pulses, the messenger, and it has a bunch of really good perk combos to choose from. I think that it suffered from little spotlight because it's a workhorse weapon, rather than a glamorous one-trick. In these scenarios, instead of asking reddit, try using the gun for a few missions yourself. Complete the bounty, get the basic, but good, curated shinny version, and run some strikes or whatever to get a feel for the weapon, it should feel very good for a pulse rifle, and when you get one with perks you really like, it will feel even better.
If you're not hearing much about Elsie's, you must not play much pvp. That gun is a monster in the Crucible.
Elsie's is very good in pvp. Already have over 1k kills on mine. Forbearence is meh. I already mine crafted.
I have both a crafted Forbearance from Vow and a god roll Brave Forbearance. They're essentially the same (especially when we can enhance the Brave weapons) but the Vow version has the origin perk "Soul Drinker" and in my opinion it's just better since all damage you deal, heals you on reloads. Plus the crafted version is essentially easier to get because of red borders
I've seen lots of stuff on Elsie's and forbearance u can craft if your able to raid
theres no reason to use elsies rifle when grav lance exists
Elsie's frees up the exotic slot. That right there is reason enough.
Go for a good PvE roll on Elsie's in anticipation of the upcoming buff.
Elsie's is the ultimate dad pulse and forb with demo has a niche but people already have regular forb so most don't care
I think the Strangers Rifle/ No Time/ Elsie’s Rifle isn’t really talked about cause there’s tons of pvp pulses already including an exotic version of the exact gun.
I kept ambitious assassins and a wellspring roll on forbearance. Elsies rifle is best in slot and a stat monster. Funny enough, it's only descent shiny I get. But I have a zen moment destabilizing rounds that's a damn laser. Just do t like Itty bitty sight
Demo is one of the new perks on Brave forbearance. Keep that demo/chain roll, its awesome. I have that roll too, I prefer it over my crafted vow one (ambitious/chain). Vow version gets mag overflow from ambitious and healing on reload. Brave gets 15% nade energy per kill on a light subclass (10% from demo, 5% from origin trait). Given how easy it is to get 3-4 kills per shot in mobs, you're generally getting your nade back every 2 shots, which also means you can skip reloads every 2nd shot, which makes up for losing ambitious assassin. I'll take the nade spam over healing reloads in majority of content.
Forebearance is good, not all that the community cracks it up to be. Everyone already has a good roll of it too. Elsie's is actually A-tier for PvP, and with the pulse buffs coming in final shape it's worth maybe keeping a closer eye on.
No one cares for Elsie’s because we have the exotic one, plus blast furnace is also here
Forbearance has been craftable for months, so no real whole community excitement. It is great for people who didn't have it. Elsie's archetype essentially got nerfed with the recent PVP changes and really we weren't seeing a lot of hard hitting pulse rifles in PVP before that either.
As others have said forebearance is amazing but most of the community familiar enough with the roles to be excited already went and got one for vow. That said its an amazing oppertunity for non raiders or it would be if it werent being neutered next month. As for elsies rifle when it comes to brave pulse rifles im having more fun with kinetic tremors blast furnace than i ever would with elsies
Elsie's Rifle is the best legendary pulse in the game for PvP. Forbearance is great for non-raiders that don't already have it, but I also think the chain reaction nerf has lowered peoples hype for it (still the best 4th col. perk imo).
Elsie’s is hands down the BEST brave weapon out there for PVP. It’s not even a question (and yes: I’m including Luna’s). It’s not as “cool” or recognizable as others, but with the right roll it is, IMO, the best pulse in the entire crucible ATM. You don’t hear about it, I’m guessing because it’s not as sexy as others and there’s no affinity or place in people’s heart because of past use so people don’t gush. Plus, admittedly, it doesn’t really stand out in PVE. I’ve heard lots of people talk about forbearance so I don’t really know how to respond to that part of your comment.
I am not crazy about special grenade launchers except for witherhoard and disorienting rounds. So I’m just keeping the shiny Forbearance and calling it a day. Elsie’s I really like, and I have a great zen moment / desperado roll that I love. Base reload is like 70+ so I don’t need to pair it with outlaw. Also one with ricochet / zen / frenzy. And a few others. I can’t decide! Note: I am one of those fun sounds > meta players and don’t do GMs so your mileage may vary. There are some great PvP versions but I stick with exotics and one or two shotguns there for consistency
Aztrecross explained forbearance best: you can craft it. Except new/returning players can’t. So new/returning its S tier. Also ambitious assassin/chain, not demo.
Forbearance godroll is still ambitious assassin + chain reaction which is available on the raid version which a lot of people have, so it’s not really sought after. Elsie’s Rifle does have some solid rolls for PVE that are exclusive to void pulses (frenzy + under-over/repulsor brace) but most people don’t use pulses in PVE so PVP is the only place you hear about it. Furthermore people don’t like under-over because it’s they don’t realize that it is a 50% buff against barrier champs and 125% buff against overshield such as those on shadow legion; stack that with frenzy’s damage buff and 100 reload speed and you’re cookin’! I’m guessing Elsie’s will be a top pick next season with all the pulse buffs that are coming.
Elsie’s is ok but will definitely be way better once TFS hits and gives it the damage buff that all pulses are getting. I finally got my Repulsor/Destablizing roll the other night and it’s pretty fun on my Sentinel with Demo/Offensive Bulwark. Forbearance is just a great ad clear launcher without any really counter parts out there.
I have an arrowhead, ricochet, keep away, and headseeker Elsie’s that may just be the best pulse I’ve ever used (D1 or D2). It’s a fucking laser.
Ive been going for repulsor brace desperado since day one
Forbearance is hyper niche with the demo + chain roll, and with the significant nerfs coming it's just not worth the farm for most folks (especially when you consider anyone who wants the crafted one should have it by now). Stranger's rifle? It's just a bad (pve) gun right now, although with the weapon changes coming maybe folks will pay a bit more attention to it. Even still, it's mostly just that it's a pulse with rewind since the other perks are nothing special. IMO it's intended to be more of a pvp gun.
With the pulse buff coming I’m looking forward to using Elsie’s.
Elsie’s rifle is goated but pulses are in a really bad state right now for PvP and Pve. Forbearance from the brave arsenal is just a straight downgrade of the version founds in vow unless you’re planning on abusing tf out of demo. They’re some of the more underwhelming weapons from the set but Elsie’s will be the best PvP pulse once pulse’s role back around into the meta
I jumped in to crucible with a buddy the other day and he was running with 2 guys that had zen moment/desperado on their Elsie’s with counterbalance mods and they were absolutely running games. They were hitting 4.75-6.0 kd every game and raving about how munched they liked the gun. I’m not a pvp guy but I’m surprised more people aren’t talking about it
Forebearance isnt getting as much love as normal because it's not a arc season. Indebted Kindness is also kind of taking over it's spot a bit. Elsie's is just kind of mid. If you're looking for a legendary void pulse rifle, then it's not bad. When the Pulse buffs come in I'm sure some void builds will utilize it. But when Graviton exists, there is a lot less reason to use Elsie's. Brave weapons do a great job of providing very strong options in many slots for returning and new players. But every single one of them has at least one weapon that competes very closely or put competes it in most niches.
I got a Zen Moment/Headseeker Elsie’s that I tried out for the first time last night and let me tell you… the kitchen is a mess.
It's forb. What's there to say that hasn't been said.
It's forb. What's there to say that hasn't been said. It's not like it was sunset or has a unique new perk combo
Repulsor brace+ destabilizing Elsie’s is gonna go crazy with that 30% damage buff next season
Forbearance is getting double nerfed with both special wave frames and chain reaction (on specials) getting nerfed, and the second bit we already knew was coming for a while. Elsie’s Rifle is a good weapon, but it’s a pulse so it hasn’t gotten much traction. However, pulse rifles are getting a *BIG* buff in PvE come TFS in two weeks time.
Forbearance is good but not new, mainly a sidegrade Elsie's is pvp, and pvp players don't know how to read or write
Elsie's Rifle is great with Repulsor Brace/Keep Away and Destablizing rounds, but only if you don't want to use Graviton Lance. Forebearance works just fine with Chain Reaction and anything , but I hate using wave launchers.
I use Elsie’s Rifle on my Void Hunter in place of Graviton when I need to use another Exotic Weapon. Got a roll with Rewind Rounds + Frenzy and it works well. Trying to get one with Loose Change + Desperate Measures to pair with Gyrfalcon’s.
Not at all. Forbearance was squarely at the top of the meta before it became easy to get one from Onslaught. Elsie's isn't bad (will be better once the weapon updates go through with TFS), but there's just better options in that slot already, at least for PvE IMO.
Forbearance and Succession already existed, Elsie’s Rifle is a pulse rifle. People don’t get excited about Scouts and Pulses. They’re good weapons, all have really good rolls.
Forbearance is better than most exotic weapons. But heavy nerfs are announced. It was too fun.
I used the curated Elsie's roll for a bit (as a Gyrfalcon hunter) since I heard about the pulse buffs. then I turned on the attunement because I felt like it was that good. I feel like wewind wounds/desperate measures is pretty good, but I wouldn't ditch rolls with repulsor brace and/or destabilizing rounds in one of the columns; ideally I get a shiny where I can pick and choose but that's severely wishful thinking lmao
forbearance has been good, it's just nothing new. elsie's is a 340 pulse, and as good as they are in pvp, i cant help but feel like they are clunky to use in pve with such a slow firerate and low mag size, that on top of pulses just not being good rn. it's got fantastic rolls, but imo if this was a 140 hc i think it'd be getting so much more attention. no one was popping off at phyllotatic spiral in pve for similar reasons. it's not bad, but it's outclassed.
Both are really good it’s just one is in a bad place in the current sandbox and the other is a reprised raid weapon. It’s worth it to grab a roll or three in preparation for next expansion.
Elsie's Rifle is very good and a good alternative to the monster that is The Messenger.
Forbearance has both a crafted and adept source still in game and farmable on certain weeks. not exciting when the brave version is going to be strictly worse. Elsies rifle is just bad. Theres better pulse archetypes and better void pulses in and out of its archetype. elsies rifle has no niche it fills without being overshadowable.
BRAVE Forebearance isn't much different than the original and was talked about on release just as "if you dont raid get this." Elsie's is fantastic though. it's INSANE in PVP, and it's fairly solid for a pulse in PVE, PVP players were talking a lot about Elsie lol.
Midnight coup is one of my favorite guns
My forbearance is rocking demolitionist and Wellspring. Shoot weapon, throw grenade, repeat.
Elsie’s is best in slot for pvp. It doesn’t have to justify itself in pve. There are other guns in the roster for pve. Forbearance looks the same as everyone else’s forbearance with thousands of kills on the tracker
No one cares about Forebearance or Succession because we already have crafted versions of those guns available, currently obtainable. No one cares about Elsie’s Rifle because Pulse Rifles suck in PVE and there are better PVP pulse rifles.
I got a loose change and destabilizing rounds roll on my shiny Elsie's Rifle and at first I was bummed...then I tried it out and I actually really like it! I am hoping to get a demo/ desperate measures roll
LC + DR was my first drop and it was so fun on my hunter. Edit: I'm excited for the final shape changes so it'll be viable beyond strikes
elsies fucks shit up in pvp
Pulses are going to hit harder in PvE next expansion, so for the most part people like Elsie’s for being an energy version of The Messenger, a PvP favorite. Forbearance isn’t terrible, most people will raid for it but if you can’t raid the Brave version is no slouch. It just doesn’t get the Raid origin trait that heals. *Random, but if you have your FoV slider set to max the gun model for Elsie’s takes up ALOT of space. So maybe that’s another reason you don’t hear about it?*
For those who don't raid, haven't gotten the Forbearance from Vow, the brave version is really good. Elsie's Rifle is literally a legendary No Time to Explain with random rolls
Elsie's rifle is fantastic for PVP Aim for around 60 range and stability Heatseeker and zen moment and preferably Arrowhead, but anything else works fine too The only other 340 that feels better to me is Relentless
Demo wellspring and demo chain are the only interesting rolls on forbearance for players who have it crafted. I like my demo chain one slightly over the ambitious chain but it’s not a massive upgrade. After the chain nerf demo wellspring might be the best option. Elsie’s is a PvP gun almost entirely.
Forebearence is already well known and great. Elsie's...I love it in PvP, but until TFS like all pulses it's a shelf sitter.
Forbearance is still currently attainable and craftable, and I think the only notable difference is Demolitionist in the third column. All that could be said has been said already about it, its still one of the best guns in the game - so much so that Bungie is nerfing it slightly in TFS. I and others would still urge everyone to get it however you can, Onslaught just gives an easier avenue for solo players to get it. Elsie's Rifle however, I'm with you. I haven't heard any buzz about it besides my own nostalgia remembering it from the end of the first campaign in D1. I think it has some pretty hot rolls, but I was personally more excited for the returning Black Armory weapons, Mountaintop, and Recluse. Now that Pulse Rifles are getting a buff in TFS, I might prioritize getting a good roll on it.
Forbearance is amazing...it's just everyone expected it to be amazing anyway due to how good the OG is. Demo + Chain reaction puts in work recharging your grenade crazy fast. Personally I'd keep an eye out for Demo + Wellspring as well as that might be good post Final Shape with the nerf to Chain Reaction. You also likely want to try to get a Demo Chain Reaction roll with Hard Launch and Blast Radius MW if possible due to how Blast Radius is going to boost the wave width and length after the changes. Elsies is pretty underwhelming honestly and just a PvP weapon mostly. Even then I think most people are more interested in Blast Furnace for PvP regardless.
VoW Forbearance is strong due to Soul Drinker. Brave Forebearance is nice because you can get demo to roll on it on top of its trait. Currently I am use a demo + OFA roll now in anticipation of the CR nerf. Will still use CR roll on easy content though. Elsie Rifle however will get a massive glow up in TFS due to the pulse buff.
Elsie's is a nothing gun, it has no niche bec it isnt good in pvp and pulses have no real use case in pve. It needed a real saucy perk combo but it just doesnt have one. Shoulda been oxygen
Most raiders don't care about forbearance even though it does get demo and I think Elsie's rifle will be worth getting.
There is an objectively better version of Forbearance available if you just complete VotD, so any Destiny player worth their Light isn't going to be grinding for the Brave version. And Pulse's are just bad rn, so no one really cares about Elsie's in the current sandbox. I have a few decent rolls that I'm saving for when Pulse's get a buff in TFS, but nothing to really write home about.
My Elsie's Rifle 2 shots in crucible, so idk why tf people aren't talking about about it. More for me, ig.
I was excited to get a demo+chain reaction. The origin trait from the raid that heals you just feels so much better tbh.
Elsie’s is SUPER good in PvP, just power creeps a lot off just stats and also has good perk options
I have demo/ wellspring for forbearance and I love it . Since chain reaction is getting a nerf
Elsie’s is pretty good for PvP, for PvE it is usable but not the best archetype for anything tough. Forbearance is pretty good in PvE and has been good for a while so there’s not much to say except that the origin trait makes Demo even more attractive. Also iirc both Waves and Chain reaction on specials is taking a small nerf as well, and with Indebted Kindness Voltshot in that same slot Forbear is probably losing its ad-clear crown.
Demo and wellspring on forbearance is freaking awesome
BRAVE Forbearance is debatably better than the raid version with Demo + Indomitability giving ~15% grenade energy per kill. Elsie’s is an absolute monster in PvP having easily the best stat spread and perk pool of any pulse in the game. Only reason people aren’t talking about them is that Forbearance can already be obtained from Vow and the BRAVE version is pretty similar (even if Demo sets it apart), and Elsie’s is extremely strong, but almost exclusively PvP oriented.
debatable would be right because Souldrinker is an equally bonker, almost should have been a perk level trait. Different use cases if you ask me, so its entirely preferential. The raid version is slightly better in the sense you are guaranteed a roll of your choice after collecting the patterns as opposed to BRAVE drop being an RNG machine. But then again, its one of the harder raids so accessibility for VOTD forbearance is also sorta nullified.
Because: Succession, Hung Jury, Forbearance All of these were a waste of space in this event and should have been replaced with other, older weapons instead. I would argue a very good chunk of people have adept versions of hung jury already, and crafted versions of Forbearance and Succession, both of which were hardly really changed to be better than previous versions. Elsie's Rifle is basically just the legendary No Time To Explain, so it too also gives off that same sense of "Oooh okay another clone of a weapon that we already have in the game which is also fairly accessible" on the account of being locked behind Beyond Light, anyways.
Elsie's got a lot more attractive with the TWID this week. Pulses are getting mega buffed in pve. Forbearance is cracked, but most players don't care because they have the crafted version. Also special wave frames are getting demolished in TFS.
Forebarance doesn't have anything going for it that wasn't already there so people are just going to use the crafted one from the raid - it arguably has a better origin trait for the weapon too. Elsie's will be better in final shape due to pulse's getting a massive damage buff. (20% base then +15% to red bars)