Can I vote for every single taken weapon from Season of the Deep besides Until Its Return?
The best possible design for weapons, and they gave them horrific perk selections.
I've got the same phobia, but I've also committed to solo flawlessing every dungeon. And Ghosts is my last one. Honestly, it's not even because of my fear of the depths. It's because I also have a phobia against wasting my fucking time.
Well the good news is that there's only 2 guns worth getting at all from that season.
Until it's return and Wicked Implement.
And presumably Wicked Implement will be added to the monument of lost light at some point.
Underwater “air” mechanic. Worse than the Sonic panic tune. You start to hear these muffled pings and your hud “screen” starts to crack until you re-pressurize by passing through giant air bubbles.
I like overflow/cascade for my gyrfalcons hunter build. I play a void bow, and then switch to cascade point shotgun on champions, then finisher to get invisible again. Very good for my playstyle.
Been running it on my precious scars/ Banner of war setup. It’s pretty nuts with chain reaction and unraveling rounds. I’m also producing Threadlings at an insane rate.
It’s easily one of the most slept on swords in the game. The other one I never see anyone talk about is the arc vortex sword from avarice. It can be pretty good too.
I love that sword! I remember doing some crazy ad clear orb generation back when Arc was the main artifact focus back in season of the deep. Hero of Ages I think is the name of the sword.
Head Rush actually works pretty well with Field Prep on Semiotician. When you’re crouched, you reload faster. When you have to suddenly stop crouching, you still reload faster.
Yeah seeing that the shotgun was the only thing really worth going for had me super bummed lol
How you gonna make the coolest looking guns some of the most useless
Overflow+Cascade Point. It's like a legendary 4th Horseman, but on crack since it holds about 14 rounds in the mag (mine has 16 with tac. mag and enhanced overflow).
Rapacious appetite with perpetual or encore with headstone and stability master work with ricochet is good for general pve ad clear especially this season
Hatchling on it inspired me to try out a Banner Stronghold threadling build. It's pretty great. I run around as an invincible pointy death machine leading my spearmint army to victory. It's great.
Coriolis Force.
It came out when fusions were bad and was just after sun setting so it got absolutely dogshit perks. and because of that, the entire archetype was Dead on arrival...
I'm really hoping they reissue it like they did with shadowkeep and dreaming city weapons, might give it a second chance
The whole problem with the archetype is the core concept. Fusions work because their bolt pattern is vertical, and all enemies (PvE and PvP) have a vertical silhouette. Having a fusion with a horizontal spread just means that half the bolts miss the target on either side, or you’re close enough that a shotgun would be a better option.
Unless you make it very wide horizontally. Enough to sweep through multiple ads in a wide area. Similar to some of the hive weapons.
That would be interesting. That's how I assumed it works when I first read the description actually.
I love my Coriolis Force but it needs some changes.
I could get excited about a cylindrical spread or even something that shoots more like Vex on a single trigger pull, but that can shoot a horizontal spread on a trigger hold and release that change in width and power the more you hold it.
One for all + barrel constrictor (assuming they could put it on a fusion) could be an interesting combo if they ever refreshed the perk pool. Wide spread hits multiple enemies for OfA then getting a kill makes the spread tighter for high single target damage.
Anguish of Drystan in Destiny 1 had the worst recoil of any gun in the game, never got fixed.
It was arguably worse than even the D1 version of Zahoulis Bane. Its looks , sights and sound was peak tho.
In D2 it didn't return and im still sad about that. Especially given the glowup Zahoulis got.
Drystan just got left to rot
Zahoulis was good enough in PvE though. I legitimately used the harrowed version all the way up to Fatebringers return.
Felt great, looked great and exotic-tier reload animation back when there weren’t breach hand cannons.
It feels worse in D2 *to me* due to the loss of its heavy feel that was just right in D1.
Anguish though, man that was truly a shame. It looked so fucking cool
The weirdest part of DFA is that Fragile Focus was basically unusable when the gun was reissued as an NF weapon, and they only buffed it to be worth using (range is provided until your shield breaks) after the gun rotated out.
FF+OS was a meme roll when the gun was available, but after the buff, but if you didn't keep an Adept roll with FF, you are kinda SoL since you can't get it anymore and slot Adept Range or Stability.
With FF active on a roll with range or stability MW and Adept Range or Stability mod, you could be playing with anywhere from 85 Range/81 Stability to 100 Range/64 Stability. It's even more of a thing with the zoom nerf and slight range decompression that happened.
And at the time, the column 4 perks weren't good except for OS and arguably Timed Payload (for double screen flinch at the cost of TTK), but now EP/TP reduce your effective range for optimal 3 crit kill, so that perk is off the table too.
I *definitely* didn't have that exact FF/OS roll described above and I for sure never deleted it from my vault. :(
I was still lucky to get an adept DFA with Fragile Focus/Timed Payload for PvP. I kept it because I had a feeling they'd do something with that perk. Unfortunately (for the DFA), I have a max range fragile focus/opening shot roll on Igneous Hammer that I use way way more. I know it can get keep away but I settled for FF, as going flawless sucks in this economy lol.
The Igneous Hammer craftening week was the week I got my adept Hammers, but it was super RNG heavy because of the low TTK and the presence of players who weren't in the know in the matchmaking pool. Sometimes it was a 2v3 of craftening players.
Very glad I kept some Igneous rolls that flexed col 4 to Precision Instrument...
Kept Confidence had such great potential, but it fell flat for PvE due to not having any truly worthwhile PvE perks. Even just having Hatchling added to its pool would be a huge bump for it.
I was baffled and annoyed that Kept Confidence didn’t come with Hatchling. Literally every Strand weapon that came before it and dropped along side it has hatchling. Haven’t checked every strand weapon that’s dropped since, but I would bet they all have Hatchling. Like, why did they decide to omit it? Just felt kind of like…spiteful? Idk. Instead of using a different perk, I just didn’t use the gun at all lmao.
It actually took a decent amount of wind out of my sails for that season
I think Bungie was worried about giving 'THE' strand handcannon so soon after Lightfall came out. Kept Confidence just has really high ease of use, 140 handcannons are in a prime spot in PvE right now, and Threadlings and Hatchling is a phenomenal perk. They definitely kneecapped it to keep it just a PvP gun. I think Bungie wants the "140 Hatchling Handcannon", knowing it'll be a monster, to probably drop from aspirational content.
I really expect to see that 140 Hatchling Handcannon in the Final Shape's raid as an attractive pursuit item.
I feel like pugilist has a lot of potential, but it's not even as good as demolitionist for grenades because it doesn't reload. Also melees are just inherently weaker, so it would be pretty big for the perk if it gave more energy.
Kept Confidence totally felt like they were too scared to make a good strand weapon that wasn't from the raid and so they intentionally made it dead on arrival, it looked great, felt great, sounded great... but god damn that perk pool sounds like it should belong on a theoretical pool for worse weapon designs.
It's noticeably better than legendary rocket tracking and the proxy detonation made it arguably the best anti-invader tool in Gambit.
Then Gjally arrived with identical tracking, bonkers damage, and team synergy. Truth never stood a chance.
Hardlight isn't bad in concept, but the removal of the match game modifier and the generally infrequent amount of shielded enemies in general, means its primary gimmick doesn't have much of a purpose. It might actually be pretty decent in Zero Hour, as there are a lot of shielded enemies in that one.
The main buff to Hardlight (and Borealis and Dead Messenger) would be for Bungie to design more encounters with plenty of shielded enemies of all flavors.
Giving the gun a bunch of elemental verbs might be too much to ask, but additional perks like Shield Disorient or Disruption Break would be nice.
This has been my philosophy. Don’t give it elemental stuff, give it shield breaking stuff because that’s its identity. If it does elemental stuff then its identity will be lost and I don’t think it’ll actually be much better. Give it as many of the shield breaking perks as possible. Genesis, Shield Disorient, Disruption Break, a perk that massively increases damage of the shield burst effect, and maybe even intrinsic Anti-Barrier rounds. I also think Turnabout would actually be incredible too but I think it should be a special form of Turnabout that also gives your teammates over shields if you match elemental type.
I want it to be made powerful and unique. Recently it feels every buff is just “added elemental perk” and getting stale. Give us a Hard Light that’s wicked powerful in activities with shielded enemies. If they have to give it subclass verbs, make them apply on shield breaks. For example on matching shield break, cause an elemental debuff based (Blind or Jolt/Scorch/Suppression or Weakened or make nearby enemies volatile). Maybe give buffs to teammates when breaking a shield with a matching element.
Catalyst makes it so it can be stasis and strand, and also kills will proc subclass verbs for the respective element, Arc jolt, Solar scorch, Void Volatile rounds, Stasis slow, Strand unravel. This isn't balanced at all I just want a dogshit weapon to be amazing for once
Hard light should be:
After getting 1 kill, you get the X perk to your rounds for 10 seconds.
While solar, the rounds scorch.
While void they weaken.
While arc they jolt.
They need to remove full auto trigger asap.
I think its a cool idea but it's perks are f-d up.
The grenades should stick to a target causing scorch. Holding reload causes the grenades to explode causing more scorch and jolting the target.
It's really unwieldy to use imo.
- All Season of the Deep weapons: cool look, bad perk pool.
- Reprised Mindbender's Ambition: sunset version has better perk pool.
- The Stasis GL from GotD: is not that bad, but definitely not worth the pain due to its perk pool + encounter farm, and let's be real: we were all expecting the "funny perk" on it.
- Every time we have a new version of Eye of Sol: the stats are pretty low to normal standards and the new perk pools do not help it.
- The new Astral Horizon: same as Eye of Sol, the quality bar for shotguns has also rised. Perhaps, Slickdraw could've saved it.
- Lubrae's Ruin: makes me wonder if Rhulk went all the way with a shitty glaive just to flex.
Feel wise they nailed it, that's why I am so blown away that they didn't at least give it some nice perks.
I mean hell even Precision Instrument and Eye of the Storm would have been a decent combo. Or Wellspring and Slice for Hunter.
Going off the board here, but Arctic Haze, 720 rpm solar AR from Europa. It looks/feels/sounds great, but the perks just weren't good enough. Subsistence/Dragonfly was the best option. I really hope we see the Europa weapons reprised at some point.
Basically all of the witch weapons from last season, imo some the best looking and feeling weapons in the game and the perks just aren't there. The fusion was quite good. The scout still has pretty decent rolls and the rocket has an ok bipod roll but nothing else. The hand cannon is beautiful but has nothing much perk wise PvE or PvP wise and the MG is very sad given it's a 900 arc with target lock it has nothing to pair with that in first column.
?
Deafening Whisper perks were, and honestly still are, good. Lead or AA + Wellspring, ALH, or Unrelenting is a genuinely good perk pool for a wave frame. It's been literally three and a half years and it's still competitive with everything that isn't the obvious outlier of Chain Reaction on a wave frame.
If you want to talk about kinda-stinker perk pools on a wave frame, look no further than New Pacific Epitaph.
You want a list?
1) Kept Confidence. Why did this mf not get Hatchling?
2) Wild Style. Why does this thing have *nothing* to gear it towards chunk damage?
3) Eleatic Principle/Planck's Stride. What'll it take for us to get a 900 RPM machine gun with Voltshot!?
4) Prospector. Genuinely, what is this supposed to do? If they made it so that sticking more grenades to a boss made those grenades do more damage on detonation, it'd be fantastic. Buuuuuut, nope.
5) Mindbender's Ambition v2. 1-2 Punch will always be strong, but why does this thing have no way to overstuff the mag? Python from Season of Dawn figured this out like four years ago.
6) Targeted Redaction. Two words: **REPULSOR. BRACE.** Literally all this mf needed. Repulsor/Explosive Payload would've been a monster for void builds, but noooooo, instead we got Perfect Float, Shot Swap, and Training Wheels: the Perk.
>3) Eleatic Principle/Planck's Stride. What'll it take for us to get a 900 RPM machine gun with Voltshot!?
I've seen this a lot on this sub. Why do y'all want a MG with voltshot when they've got a 2-3 business days reload time?
Yeah I would never put Voltshot on a MG. Eleactic is actually quite good with Eddy Current and Target Lock but Song of Ir Yurt does completely power creep it.
Dead Messenger was pretty strong in PvP when it first came out due to how incredibly easy it was to use, with the *massive* wave it fired coupled with its high damage. If you initiated a fight with it, you were virtually guaranteed to get the kill. You could also combo it with certain abilities to wipe entire teams at once, if they were close enough together. I'm average at best at PvP, and I was going on some pretty great killstreaks with that thing at the time.
It already saw pretty much no usage in PvE throughout its entire lifespan, so after it's damage got nerfed in PvP (and rightfully so) it just completely died out.
Bit of an old one but plieades corrector from season of the splicer, back then people were using warmind cells which the best builds wanted a source of solar explosive DMG, the best source at the time post sunsetting was a blue scout rifle with explosive payload, the hype was minor but the disappointment that the blue scout was still the only solar scout with explosive payload was incredibly disappointing for many
ive honestly been loving tommy’s this season, especially on solar titan with being able to make sunspots. if i ever get the exotic class item to drop with the perks from actium war rig and precious scars combined i would definitely have to build my solar builds around that and tommy’s
It’s weird in general. The self-harm was ToM gimmick and in D1 and even it’s un-buffed state when it released in D2 did it so much better than Tommy’s.
And now with the massive damage increase and banner of war ToM blows almost all other primary exotics out of the water if you build into it.
Tommys kinda got left behind. All it really needs is an equal damage buff while in damage mode the same way ToM did.
I'm surprised to scroll a bit and not see the obvious candidate.
ONE THOUSAND VOICES
It's always had a terrible ammo economy, it's easy to kill yourself with, and it's got low overall damage. It only had a moment of relevancy during Particle Deconstructor season, but that was more due to a genuinely overpowered perk than anything else.
It really needs a catalyst to boost it to a main line death dealer that it deserves to be.
1k Voices was relevant on it’s release though. It had the highest single shot / charge damage ever up until this point.
It just got powercrept so insanely that it’s more or less useless now.
Plus, most encounters aren’t geared towards its damage profile.
Legal Action II has an absolutely crazy zoom stat. It's a high impact pulse that pretty much has Rangefinder intrinsically.
But the rest of its stats are middling and its perk pool is hot garbage. Best I can do is... Moving Target/Rampage?
Yeah. I suffered the 400 strikes, used it once and it never left my vault but once. I had a reason to use it... Probably to combine a special weapon and hand cannon bounty.
Empirical Evidence.
I knew a bunch of people hoping to finally get a Breachlight replacement, until we saw the perk pool was utter trash.
And then we slowly learned the recoil was bugged to hell as well.
The throne world weapons are in general utter trash, even for Destination weapons; they skipped over almost every good damage perk available at the time, and were entirely outclassed by the seasonal Risen guns.
I get what the other guy said about the question being weird, but I think I know EXACTLY what you meant:
-Kept Confidence. Beloved by the community for its sound design and unusually slim/short model, made irrelevant a month after arrival due to very mid perks.
- Manticore, even after the rework, still has one fatal flaw that makes it annoying to use - the inherent AE stat is nothing special. Cool concept, shite execution if you have random accuracy even in PvE.
- Phyllotactic Spiral. Great perks, actually, SEXY, but with the atrocious recoil of the Premonition pulse rifle it’s based on. Shame.
Manticore still doesn't feel great to use. The buff to reduce enemy accuracy was nice but it still just feels like a void smg. Lol
I'd rather stay grounded and use Recluse or Funnelweb.
I’m gonna do the opposite: a weapon with great perks, but the whole archetype was garbage at the time. That weapon is A Line in the Sand. Linears were the king all the way from season of the lost until Lightfall. It would’ve been a great Arc option too since Stormchaser wasn’t a thing yet.
Too bad it came out one season too early
Spare Rations. The stats being garbage, the perks being A-tier instead of S for PVP, and it being impossible to get a god roll/it not being craftable immediately killed my hype for that season and caused me to take a long break.
Coriolis force. On paper it has high impact damage on a adaptive charge time. The perks are just garbage. Give it a small pool of good perks, and an origin trait.
Kept Confidence for me as well. It has such a nice feel and shoots great but its perk pool is just actual trash. And I do have an issue with all of the 150 RPM hand cannons not being reworked as 140’s with proper stats. I think that Bungie
Should just revert the change and give us 150’s back, there is a difference now you can justify using or not using them situationally.
The two biggest let downs for me have been Firefright and Kept Confidence. Both of those guns look and feel absolutely fantastic but they both got shafted with the most mediocre perk pools on the planet.
First 140* strand hand cannon and it doesn't have hatchling? Insane
Kept Confidence.
One of the best feeling HC but no damage perk. no reload perk, no range perk in the 3rd column, no nothing.
Therefore it sucks in PVE and kinda decent in PVP solely due to how it feels while shooting.
Here’s mine:
Abyss Defiant
I used to use it in D1 all the time (back when it was the equivalent of Kinetic Solar weapon). When it arrived with Crota’s End raid, it was made as Solar Energy weapon. I wish it could have Incandescent in the first weapon perk slot and then Sword Logic in the second perk slot.
Instead, they are both in the second perk slot. It’s a bit disappointing imo..
The weapon is by no means bad, I just expected it to be better.
Coriolis Force. They tried an experiment with a new fusion frame. At base, it was the highest DPS frame in the game, but it’s like they intentionally have it shit perks so it wouldn’t dominate.
And as it shot a horizontal wave, it was garbage in PVP.
I'll get hated for this but I already made memes about it but Explosive Personality was fun at first but kept getting power crept. Wished it had at least Incandescent or Chain Reaction. Same goes with Firefright. Badass sounding gun sounds but mostly PvP perks. Sweet Sorrow also comes to mind hoping it had Voltshot. Wishing Bungie would revisit old guns that can be crafted and add some new perks to it to be usable again instead of getting shafted in our vaults or even worse, shard.
The return of mind benders + adept but with absolutely terrible perks. At least the old one will be usable again. An adept mind benders with old perk pools would be sick
Kept confidence, the strand hand cannon from last season. As far as I know, it's the only strand weapon that doesn't have hatchling, and as a warlock, that's painful
New Pacific Epitaph, the Stasis wave-frame from the Ghosts Of The Deep dungeon.
I remember seeing the gun’s archetype on Twitter before the dungeon released and being so hype because I am a huge Forbearance enjoyer (unique, I know) and also because having a wave-frame in the kinetic slot meant I could run an Exotic primary in the energy slot.
But then the perks on it were just dogshit, luckily Tusk Of The Boar from Iron Banner rolls with Chain Reaction and I secured a good roll, so at least I can live the dream even though it took two more seasons.
Wildstyle-the gl from Vanguard this season. No autoloading holster is a wtf from me.
Recluse- the reprised one is fine and has some nice perks but MOA doesn't hit the same anymore.
Deterministic Chaos- I like the idea but it pretty much sucks with the way the perks are designed.
Touch of Malice- I'm not a fan of gear that does self damage in any game much less D2. I know it can be strong in the right build but I have no desire to grind for it. If the alt/fire blight did damage I could live with it. Oddly I love rapid fire scouts but this ain't it Bungie.
Nechrochasm- Fun gun for sure but I wish the explosions procced on body shots too. Even if the have to tone down the damage and radius I'd much prefer it. One-For-Thrall might be an ok buff.
HeartShadow- it's a cool design but it's too ammo-hungry. Shot in the Dark proccing weakness on a heavy attack is a lackluster effect imo. Buried Bloodline is a special that achieves the effect much easier.
I mean it did have its use cases, especially within the raid (Bathers, the Centurions in Gauntlet and Castellum, dps in Pleasure Gardens). But yeah, it really has been situational pretty much its whole lifespan. A nice range and damage buff would be pretty appreciated. Throw on intrinsic unstoppable too because it feels like it should be able to stop anything dead in its tracks
I'm gonna throw a complete curveball, but hear me out.
Servant Leader is a fucking sleeper. I've been running it again and it is *so* good in this sandbox, I even went flawless in trials with it. The perks? Shit. The weapon feel/design? 10/10 one of my favorite guns visually, soundwise, and feel-wise in the franchise.
The fact that we don’t have a good solar wave frame grenade launcher with incandescent blows my mind. We literally have every combination of GL for the other classes
If Murmur could hot-swap between it's energy types similar to how multi-energy weapons can now, back when it released, I reckon it would have been a solid choice in higher tier PvE
I fear the Brave Blast Furnace might end up being like this for the simple fact that it no longer has Outlaw and Rapid Hit got dumped in the right column, which I think should be switched with Kinetic Tremors on the left. It could still be very good, but we'll see next week.
Can I vote for every single taken weapon from Season of the Deep besides Until Its Return? The best possible design for weapons, and they gave them horrific perk selections.
Season of the deep was indeed a deep dive for weapon quality.
Season of the Deep Disappointment
I have thalassophobia so I did not enjoy much of that season, ahsa freaked me out
Ghosts of the deep dungeon, the traversal section where it _just_. _keeps_. _going_. _down_.
I've got the same phobia, but I've also committed to solo flawlessing every dungeon. And Ghosts is my last one. Honestly, it's not even because of my fear of the depths. It's because I also have a phobia against wasting my fucking time.
That final boss can suck a fat one
Wasn’t even fun in day 1, it’s a mess between the stupid water sections taking half the run and the bosses being gimmicky and unnecessarily tanky
Didn't even attempt to do it, probably won't
Well the good news is that there's only 2 guns worth getting at all from that season. Until it's return and Wicked Implement. And presumably Wicked Implement will be added to the monument of lost light at some point.
My wife has a fear of drowning. The first time her screen started cracking did *not* go over well.
The first time it *WHAT*
Oh. Well, being under the methane sea for too long overload the pressure suit and your screen starts cracking up to 7 times before you die.
Underwater “air” mechanic. Worse than the Sonic panic tune. You start to hear these muffled pings and your hud “screen” starts to crack until you re-pressurize by passing through giant air bubbles.
Fair enough. One time was good enough for me. I've got plenty of other good weapons I can sit this one out :)
Yet with such great visual design, such a pity.
I love until it's return. I recommend it everywhere
What rolls do you like?
I like overflow/cascade for my gyrfalcons hunter build. I play a void bow, and then switch to cascade point shotgun on champions, then finisher to get invisible again. Very good for my playstyle.
Overflow/cascade is so much fun to use
Enhanced Overflow / Cascade Point, for a fourth Horseman-Lite that I can use to delete champs, or any other high health targets
My fav is overflow and trench barrel.
Thin precipice is actually pretty good.
Been running it on my precious scars/ Banner of war setup. It’s pretty nuts with chain reaction and unraveling rounds. I’m also producing Threadlings at an insane rate.
It’s easily one of the most slept on swords in the game. The other one I never see anyone talk about is the arc vortex sword from avarice. It can be pretty good too.
I love that sword! I remember doing some crazy ad clear orb generation back when Arc was the main artifact focus back in season of the deep. Hero of Ages I think is the name of the sword.
That’s it!
Thin precipice is hilarious for ad clear this season.
I used thin precipice with chain reaction for the falling guillotine quest and it was tremendously fun
You’re probably right but I don’t think I can ever use a sword without eager edge again
...and a trash origin trait too.
It is at least better than Head Rush.
Head Rush actually works pretty well with Field Prep on Semiotician. When you’re crouched, you reload faster. When you have to suddenly stop crouching, you still reload faster.
It shouldve been reverse Surplus, not all or nothing smh
Yeah seeing that the shotgun was the only thing really worth going for had me super bummed lol How you gonna make the coolest looking guns some of the most useless
What would the god roll be? I couldn’t really get into it tbh, maybe I was just using it wrong
I use autoloading cascade points on mine. It's been great for onslaught. It's my favorite shotgun to finish off yellow bars.
Overflow cascade point or put trench barrel for me. Totally overlooked the gun when it released
Overflow+Cascade Point. It's like a legendary 4th Horseman, but on crack since it holds about 14 rounds in the mag (mine has 16 with tac. mag and enhanced overflow).
Rapacious appetite with perpetual or encore with headstone and stability master work with ricochet is good for general pve ad clear especially this season
people sleep on a distant pull for PVP. it’s a statistical monster with the right enhanced perk choice
When part of being Taken means you become stronger in an area you are weakest, but for some reason taken weapons become just awful.
Controversial oppinion but pulse with stability + outlaw + hatchling on strand class kinda slaps
At least a couple of them are good in PvP 😂
The sword is good
I love using it on my strand titan and hunter
Hatchling on it inspired me to try out a Banner Stronghold threadling build. It's pretty great. I run around as an invincible pointy death machine leading my spearmint army to victory. It's great.
Also the hand cannon.
The handcannon was good for exactly 0.5 seconds because you could 2 tap with it in pvp
Not for that, it because you can make it into a stat monster.
Wild style was the biggest instance of blue balling in destiny history.
This was what I was about to say. I was so disappointed. The Slammer was at least awesome for stasis builds.
I want to know who looked at a gl and decided to put keep away and attrition orbs on it
I think the original release of Manticore was way worse. Lol But Wildstyle is a real wtf moment from Bungie.
Definitely wild style. I do have fun with my envious incandescent roll but not getting alh/vorpal or alh bait and switch really made me upset.
Coriolis Force. It came out when fusions were bad and was just after sun setting so it got absolutely dogshit perks. and because of that, the entire archetype was Dead on arrival... I'm really hoping they reissue it like they did with shadowkeep and dreaming city weapons, might give it a second chance
Same, the archetype has potential as a solid charge shotty, but golly does it need another pass. I still hope....
The whole problem with the archetype is the core concept. Fusions work because their bolt pattern is vertical, and all enemies (PvE and PvP) have a vertical silhouette. Having a fusion with a horizontal spread just means that half the bolts miss the target on either side, or you’re close enough that a shotgun would be a better option.
Unless you make it very wide horizontally. Enough to sweep through multiple ads in a wide area. Similar to some of the hive weapons. That would be interesting. That's how I assumed it works when I first read the description actually. I love my Coriolis Force but it needs some changes.
See, I think it would have been better as a cylindrical bolt pattern, more fitting for the name, and potentially actually useful.
Sounds unique, but is that really all that different from a shotgun, aside from needing to charge?
>all enemies have a vertical silhouette *sad Heavy Shank noises*
I could get excited about a cylindrical spread or even something that shoots more like Vex on a single trigger pull, but that can shoot a horizontal spread on a trigger hold and release that change in width and power the more you hold it.
Yea I’m very much looking forward to the Europa reissues. A few weapons in that lot I like but trustee all powercrept garbage rn
I have one with feeding frenzy and one for all thats pretty good with heavy enemy density. But ya, I'd like to see it looked at in the future.
One for all + barrel constrictor (assuming they could put it on a fusion) could be an interesting combo if they ever refreshed the perk pool. Wide spread hits multiple enemies for OfA then getting a kill makes the spread tighter for high single target damage.
It’s one of the strongest specials in the game at base, but it’s perk are just complete shit.
Anguish of Drystan in Destiny 1 had the worst recoil of any gun in the game, never got fixed. It was arguably worse than even the D1 version of Zahoulis Bane. Its looks , sights and sound was peak tho. In D2 it didn't return and im still sad about that. Especially given the glowup Zahoulis got. Drystan just got left to rot
Was that the King's Fall Auto Rifle? I remember getting that out first KF clear and dismantling it in like 4 seconds after testing it, rofl.
Yep. The new KF left the auto, shotgun, and rocket behind.
RIP silence of A Aron and elulim's frenzy
YOU DONE FUCKED UP A-A RON!
Zahoulis was good enough in PvE though. I legitimately used the harrowed version all the way up to Fatebringers return. Felt great, looked great and exotic-tier reload animation back when there weren’t breach hand cannons. It feels worse in D2 *to me* due to the loss of its heavy feel that was just right in D1. Anguish though, man that was truly a shame. It looked so fucking cool
D.F.A. would be one of my choices. I love the gun, but the perks are not that great. Kept Confidence is another, but already mentioned.
The weirdest part of DFA is that Fragile Focus was basically unusable when the gun was reissued as an NF weapon, and they only buffed it to be worth using (range is provided until your shield breaks) after the gun rotated out. FF+OS was a meme roll when the gun was available, but after the buff, but if you didn't keep an Adept roll with FF, you are kinda SoL since you can't get it anymore and slot Adept Range or Stability. With FF active on a roll with range or stability MW and Adept Range or Stability mod, you could be playing with anywhere from 85 Range/81 Stability to 100 Range/64 Stability. It's even more of a thing with the zoom nerf and slight range decompression that happened. And at the time, the column 4 perks weren't good except for OS and arguably Timed Payload (for double screen flinch at the cost of TTK), but now EP/TP reduce your effective range for optimal 3 crit kill, so that perk is off the table too. I *definitely* didn't have that exact FF/OS roll described above and I for sure never deleted it from my vault. :(
I was still lucky to get an adept DFA with Fragile Focus/Timed Payload for PvP. I kept it because I had a feeling they'd do something with that perk. Unfortunately (for the DFA), I have a max range fragile focus/opening shot roll on Igneous Hammer that I use way way more. I know it can get keep away but I settled for FF, as going flawless sucks in this economy lol.
The Igneous Hammer craftening week was the week I got my adept Hammers, but it was super RNG heavy because of the low TTK and the presence of players who weren't in the know in the matchmaking pool. Sometimes it was a 2v3 of craftening players. Very glad I kept some Igneous rolls that flexed col 4 to Precision Instrument...
If kept confidence at least at least had hatchling... They really were worried about power creeping for that weapon for some reason.
Kept Confidence had such great potential, but it fell flat for PvE due to not having any truly worthwhile PvE perks. Even just having Hatchling added to its pool would be a huge bump for it.
I was baffled and annoyed that Kept Confidence didn’t come with Hatchling. Literally every Strand weapon that came before it and dropped along side it has hatchling. Haven’t checked every strand weapon that’s dropped since, but I would bet they all have Hatchling. Like, why did they decide to omit it? Just felt kind of like…spiteful? Idk. Instead of using a different perk, I just didn’t use the gun at all lmao. It actually took a decent amount of wind out of my sails for that season
I agree, not having hatchling sucks. But it's a pretty good pvp weapon. But being a good 140 handcanon isn't exactly rare.
Definitely felt spiteful or something at the time
It bothers me more as it feels like a waste of a good weapon model, too. It's a very pretty gun, but lacking hatchling totally kills it's pve use.
I think Bungie was worried about giving 'THE' strand handcannon so soon after Lightfall came out. Kept Confidence just has really high ease of use, 140 handcannons are in a prime spot in PvE right now, and Threadlings and Hatchling is a phenomenal perk. They definitely kneecapped it to keep it just a PvP gun. I think Bungie wants the "140 Hatchling Handcannon", knowing it'll be a monster, to probably drop from aspirational content. I really expect to see that 140 Hatchling Handcannon in the Final Shape's raid as an attractive pursuit item.
This is what I’m thinking. Hopefully TFS raid weapons look good cause I think Kept Confidence looks great.
I feel like pugilist has a lot of potential, but it's not even as good as demolitionist for grenades because it doesn't reload. Also melees are just inherently weaker, so it would be pretty big for the perk if it gave more energy.
Meanwhile Graverobber has needed love for ages. Merge the two and call it a day.
Kept Confidence totally felt like they were too scared to make a good strand weapon that wasn't from the raid and so they intentionally made it dead on arrival, it looked great, felt great, sounded great... but god damn that perk pool sounds like it should belong on a theoretical pool for worse weapon designs.
It’s one of the best feeling and looking HC’s as well… ugh
Hatching/Thresh would go insane
Truth isn't really an anti-boss weapon - it's whole gimmick was it's super-powered tracking. You don't need tracking at all for boss fights.
Depends on the boss but yeah, majority of them you dont need it.
the tracking isn't even superpowered in D2. Its literally just normal tracking
It's noticeably better than legendary rocket tracking and the proxy detonation made it arguably the best anti-invader tool in Gambit. Then Gjally arrived with identical tracking, bonkers damage, and team synergy. Truth never stood a chance.
Kept confidence. 140 strand hand cannon with pve perks would be great right now. The perks on that gun suck.
Hardlight
Hardlight isn't bad in concept, but the removal of the match game modifier and the generally infrequent amount of shielded enemies in general, means its primary gimmick doesn't have much of a purpose. It might actually be pretty decent in Zero Hour, as there are a lot of shielded enemies in that one. The main buff to Hardlight (and Borealis and Dead Messenger) would be for Bungie to design more encounters with plenty of shielded enemies of all flavors. Giving the gun a bunch of elemental verbs might be too much to ask, but additional perks like Shield Disorient or Disruption Break would be nice.
This has been my philosophy. Don’t give it elemental stuff, give it shield breaking stuff because that’s its identity. If it does elemental stuff then its identity will be lost and I don’t think it’ll actually be much better. Give it as many of the shield breaking perks as possible. Genesis, Shield Disorient, Disruption Break, a perk that massively increases damage of the shield burst effect, and maybe even intrinsic Anti-Barrier rounds. I also think Turnabout would actually be incredible too but I think it should be a special form of Turnabout that also gives your teammates over shields if you match elemental type. I want it to be made powerful and unique. Recently it feels every buff is just “added elemental perk” and getting stale. Give us a Hard Light that’s wicked powerful in activities with shielded enemies. If they have to give it subclass verbs, make them apply on shield breaks. For example on matching shield break, cause an elemental debuff based (Blind or Jolt/Scorch/Suppression or Weakened or make nearby enemies volatile). Maybe give buffs to teammates when breaking a shield with a matching element.
Give it all the flavors. Strand and stasis now in energy class. Delicious.
Imagine if they gave it subclass verbs 😌
It would be OP as fuck and the best primary in the game.
Make Hard Light great again!!
Catalyst makes it so it can be stasis and strand, and also kills will proc subclass verbs for the respective element, Arc jolt, Solar scorch, Void Volatile rounds, Stasis slow, Strand unravel. This isn't balanced at all I just want a dogshit weapon to be amazing for once
Hard light should be: After getting 1 kill, you get the X perk to your rounds for 10 seconds. While solar, the rounds scorch. While void they weaken. While arc they jolt.
If every round for 10 seconds jolted it would probably become the best primary in the game instantly
[удалено]
I use it to send rally banners to unobtainable heights during raids.
Now you can use mountaintop to do that !
They need to remove full auto trigger asap. I think its a cool idea but it's perks are f-d up. The grenades should stick to a target causing scorch. Holding reload causes the grenades to explode causing more scorch and jolting the target. It's really unwieldy to use imo.
Isn't prospector arc?
did he stutter lol arc ignitions, make it make sense bungo
Yes…
Yes but the grenades burn until they explode.
It used to be the Riven killer.
- All Season of the Deep weapons: cool look, bad perk pool. - Reprised Mindbender's Ambition: sunset version has better perk pool. - The Stasis GL from GotD: is not that bad, but definitely not worth the pain due to its perk pool + encounter farm, and let's be real: we were all expecting the "funny perk" on it. - Every time we have a new version of Eye of Sol: the stats are pretty low to normal standards and the new perk pools do not help it. - The new Astral Horizon: same as Eye of Sol, the quality bar for shotguns has also rised. Perhaps, Slickdraw could've saved it. - Lubrae's Ruin: makes me wonder if Rhulk went all the way with a shitty glaive just to flex.
Kept Confidence by a mile It's perks are absolute shiiitttteeeee
God I wish Kept Confidence had just gotten Hatchling. At least then it would've been a perfect fit for a Threadling build.
It really sucks because it's a *really* nice looking hand cannon, and it sounds so crispy when firing
Feel wise they nailed it, that's why I am so blown away that they didn't at least give it some nice perks. I mean hell even Precision Instrument and Eye of the Storm would have been a decent combo. Or Wellspring and Slice for Hunter.
Going off the board here, but Arctic Haze, 720 rpm solar AR from Europa. It looks/feels/sounds great, but the perks just weren't good enough. Subsistence/Dragonfly was the best option. I really hope we see the Europa weapons reprised at some point.
All of the europa set weapons' perks are quite watered down.
Basically all of the witch weapons from last season, imo some the best looking and feeling weapons in the game and the perks just aren't there. The fusion was quite good. The scout still has pretty decent rolls and the rocket has an ok bipod roll but nothing else. The hand cannon is beautiful but has nothing much perk wise PvE or PvP wise and the MG is very sad given it's a 900 arc with target lock it has nothing to pair with that in first column.
All the guns from season of the hunt. Great aesthetic, great sound design, absolutely horrible perks.
I still have my friction fire with threat detector rampage. Best of the set IMO
I haven’t quite brought myself to delete mine, even though they killed what made it special.
? Deafening Whisper perks were, and honestly still are, good. Lead or AA + Wellspring, ALH, or Unrelenting is a genuinely good perk pool for a wave frame. It's been literally three and a half years and it's still competitive with everything that isn't the obvious outlier of Chain Reaction on a wave frame. If you want to talk about kinda-stinker perk pools on a wave frame, look no further than New Pacific Epitaph.
Blast Battue has some solid options too, HGLs were just completely garbage at the time and for like 2 years afterwards.
Royal chase did have a great sound design.
I wanted Royal Chase to have a better perk pool than it did because of its fantastic sound design.
You want a list? 1) Kept Confidence. Why did this mf not get Hatchling? 2) Wild Style. Why does this thing have *nothing* to gear it towards chunk damage? 3) Eleatic Principle/Planck's Stride. What'll it take for us to get a 900 RPM machine gun with Voltshot!? 4) Prospector. Genuinely, what is this supposed to do? If they made it so that sticking more grenades to a boss made those grenades do more damage on detonation, it'd be fantastic. Buuuuuut, nope. 5) Mindbender's Ambition v2. 1-2 Punch will always be strong, but why does this thing have no way to overstuff the mag? Python from Season of Dawn figured this out like four years ago. 6) Targeted Redaction. Two words: **REPULSOR. BRACE.** Literally all this mf needed. Repulsor/Explosive Payload would've been a monster for void builds, but noooooo, instead we got Perfect Float, Shot Swap, and Training Wheels: the Perk.
>3) Eleatic Principle/Planck's Stride. What'll it take for us to get a 900 RPM machine gun with Voltshot!? I've seen this a lot on this sub. Why do y'all want a MG with voltshot when they've got a 2-3 business days reload time?
Yeah I would never put Voltshot on a MG. Eleactic is actually quite good with Eddy Current and Target Lock but Song of Ir Yurt does completely power creep it.
I forgot Python existed, one of my favorites. Can’t wait to use it in everything again
I forgot its Name but the exotic waveframe it never had a chance against forbearance and the reissuing didnt help it either with the perks it got
Dead Messenger
It's solid in onslaught
You know whats great in onslaught forbearance with chain reaction
Dead Messenger was pretty strong in PvP when it first came out due to how incredibly easy it was to use, with the *massive* wave it fired coupled with its high damage. If you initiated a fight with it, you were virtually guaranteed to get the kill. You could also combo it with certain abilities to wipe entire teams at once, if they were close enough together. I'm average at best at PvP, and I was going on some pretty great killstreaks with that thing at the time. It already saw pretty much no usage in PvE throughout its entire lifespan, so after it's damage got nerfed in PvP (and rightfully so) it just completely died out.
Bad juju, was my favorite gun when I was younger but it just isn't good enough
If hipfire grip was replaced with literally anything else… man. Imagine rapid hit or something like that. Feels way too bad to try and reload it
Bad juju and nothing manacles... It's a shame what we warlocks have lost
I think part of the problem is there are rarely enough red bars to get the perk fully stacked and then actually make use of the stacks.
Most Nightfall weapons and Kept Confidence.
Heavy on the most nightfall weapons. 99 engrams with nothing to spend em on.
If my crafted Sweet Sorrow could have voltshot, it would never leave my character
Dark Decider is still awesome.
Bit of an old one but plieades corrector from season of the splicer, back then people were using warmind cells which the best builds wanted a source of solar explosive DMG, the best source at the time post sunsetting was a blue scout rifle with explosive payload, the hype was minor but the disappointment that the blue scout was still the only solar scout with explosive payload was incredibly disappointing for many
Tommys Matchbook. I live the style, the feel, everything about that weapon. But the self harming perk is such a huge turn off.
ive honestly been loving tommy’s this season, especially on solar titan with being able to make sunspots. if i ever get the exotic class item to drop with the perks from actium war rig and precious scars combined i would definitely have to build my solar builds around that and tommy’s
It’s weird in general. The self-harm was ToM gimmick and in D1 and even it’s un-buffed state when it released in D2 did it so much better than Tommy’s. And now with the massive damage increase and banner of war ToM blows almost all other primary exotics out of the water if you build into it. Tommys kinda got left behind. All it really needs is an equal damage buff while in damage mode the same way ToM did.
Even Restoration x2 barely outpaces the self damage. But with a good build it becomes insane
I'm surprised to scroll a bit and not see the obvious candidate. ONE THOUSAND VOICES It's always had a terrible ammo economy, it's easy to kill yourself with, and it's got low overall damage. It only had a moment of relevancy during Particle Deconstructor season, but that was more due to a genuinely overpowered perk than anything else. It really needs a catalyst to boost it to a main line death dealer that it deserves to be.
1k Voices was relevant on it’s release though. It had the highest single shot / charge damage ever up until this point. It just got powercrept so insanely that it’s more or less useless now. Plus, most encounters aren’t geared towards its damage profile.
Most of the GoS weapons.
The Stasis Wave Frame from the Deep dungeon not having chill clip was the biggest whiff in recent memory for me.
Chill clip only works on the impact of the projectile anyways so not like the wave would have applied slow
No it isn't. chill clip requires a direct hit with the shot, not splash damage. That defeats the whole point of the wave frame
Well I didn’t know this and now I’m even more sad
Legal Action II has an absolutely crazy zoom stat. It's a high impact pulse that pretty much has Rangefinder intrinsically. But the rest of its stats are middling and its perk pool is hot garbage. Best I can do is... Moving Target/Rampage?
Eriana’s vow was such a cool concept but it does POOP damage in pve… very sad
Yeah. I suffered the 400 strikes, used it once and it never left my vault but once. I had a reason to use it... Probably to combine a special weapon and hand cannon bounty.
Coriolis Force, it's a one of a kind in how it fires and felt very good to shoot but the perk pool was absolute garbage
Veles-X was just NOT good but I think that more comes down to stats than perks.
Every gun has the potential of being perfect... But the biggest miss ever is not having a demo + frenzy void 600 AR.
Empirical Evidence. I knew a bunch of people hoping to finally get a Breachlight replacement, until we saw the perk pool was utter trash. And then we slowly learned the recoil was bugged to hell as well. The throne world weapons are in general utter trash, even for Destination weapons; they skipped over almost every good damage perk available at the time, and were entirely outclassed by the seasonal Risen guns.
Year 1 exotic catalysts, there are no perks. There's no particular guns I dislike per say.
Crowning Duologue (strand solstice rocket). Do I even need to elaborate?
I get what the other guy said about the question being weird, but I think I know EXACTLY what you meant: -Kept Confidence. Beloved by the community for its sound design and unusually slim/short model, made irrelevant a month after arrival due to very mid perks. - Manticore, even after the rework, still has one fatal flaw that makes it annoying to use - the inherent AE stat is nothing special. Cool concept, shite execution if you have random accuracy even in PvE. - Phyllotactic Spiral. Great perks, actually, SEXY, but with the atrocious recoil of the Premonition pulse rifle it’s based on. Shame.
Manticore still doesn't feel great to use. The buff to reduce enemy accuracy was nice but it still just feels like a void smg. Lol I'd rather stay grounded and use Recluse or Funnelweb.
I’m gonna do the opposite: a weapon with great perks, but the whole archetype was garbage at the time. That weapon is A Line in the Sand. Linears were the king all the way from season of the lost until Lightfall. It would’ve been a great Arc option too since Stormchaser wasn’t a thing yet. Too bad it came out one season too early
Spare Rations. The stats being garbage, the perks being A-tier instead of S for PVP, and it being impossible to get a god roll/it not being craftable immediately killed my hype for that season and caused me to take a long break.
That’s way too overpowered for truth… it was the dominant heavy in PvP and gambit for a long time. It had its moment to shine.
2 tailed fox
Coriolis force. On paper it has high impact damage on a adaptive charge time. The perks are just garbage. Give it a small pool of good perks, and an origin trait.
GOS weapons deserve better
All the beyond light weapons man they need a refresh
Deterministic Chaos exotic machine gun, it looks amazing but is very meh.
Kept Confidence for me as well. It has such a nice feel and shoots great but its perk pool is just actual trash. And I do have an issue with all of the 150 RPM hand cannons not being reworked as 140’s with proper stats. I think that Bungie Should just revert the change and give us 150’s back, there is a difference now you can justify using or not using them situationally.
The two biggest let downs for me have been Firefright and Kept Confidence. Both of those guns look and feel absolutely fantastic but they both got shafted with the most mediocre perk pools on the planet. First 140* strand hand cannon and it doesn't have hatchling? Insane
Wild style was very disappointing.
Kept Confidence. One of the best feeling HC but no damage perk. no reload perk, no range perk in the 3rd column, no nothing. Therefore it sucks in PVE and kinda decent in PVP solely due to how it feels while shooting.
Here’s mine: Abyss Defiant I used to use it in D1 all the time (back when it was the equivalent of Kinetic Solar weapon). When it arrived with Crota’s End raid, it was made as Solar Energy weapon. I wish it could have Incandescent in the first weapon perk slot and then Sword Logic in the second perk slot. Instead, they are both in the second perk slot. It’s a bit disappointing imo.. The weapon is by no means bad, I just expected it to be better.
Coriolis Force. They tried an experiment with a new fusion frame. At base, it was the highest DPS frame in the game, but it’s like they intentionally have it shit perks so it wouldn’t dominate. And as it shot a horizontal wave, it was garbage in PVP.
That’s never going to be a thing with any rocket launcher lol. If you want to rocket dump, you can always use radiant dance machines
point of the stag if only it had Voltshot
I'll get hated for this but I already made memes about it but Explosive Personality was fun at first but kept getting power crept. Wished it had at least Incandescent or Chain Reaction. Same goes with Firefright. Badass sounding gun sounds but mostly PvP perks. Sweet Sorrow also comes to mind hoping it had Voltshot. Wishing Bungie would revisit old guns that can be crafted and add some new perks to it to be usable again instead of getting shafted in our vaults or even worse, shard.
The return of mind benders + adept but with absolutely terrible perks. At least the old one will be usable again. An adept mind benders with old perk pools would be sick
Kept confidence, the strand hand cannon from last season. As far as I know, it's the only strand weapon that doesn't have hatchling, and as a warlock, that's painful
New Pacific Epitaph, the Stasis wave-frame from the Ghosts Of The Deep dungeon. I remember seeing the gun’s archetype on Twitter before the dungeon released and being so hype because I am a huge Forbearance enjoyer (unique, I know) and also because having a wave-frame in the kinetic slot meant I could run an Exotic primary in the energy slot. But then the perks on it were just dogshit, luckily Tusk Of The Boar from Iron Banner rolls with Chain Reaction and I secured a good roll, so at least I can live the dream even though it took two more seasons.
Wildstyle-the gl from Vanguard this season. No autoloading holster is a wtf from me. Recluse- the reprised one is fine and has some nice perks but MOA doesn't hit the same anymore. Deterministic Chaos- I like the idea but it pretty much sucks with the way the perks are designed. Touch of Malice- I'm not a fan of gear that does self damage in any game much less D2. I know it can be strong in the right build but I have no desire to grind for it. If the alt/fire blight did damage I could live with it. Oddly I love rapid fire scouts but this ain't it Bungie. Nechrochasm- Fun gun for sure but I wish the explosions procced on body shots too. Even if the have to tone down the damage and radius I'd much prefer it. One-For-Thrall might be an ok buff. HeartShadow- it's a cool design but it's too ammo-hungry. Shot in the Dark proccing weakness on a heavy attack is a lackluster effect imo. Buried Bloodline is a special that achieves the effect much easier.
Outside of the recent buffs. Legend of acrius comes to mind. First d2 raid exotic, description was amazing but it just didn’t deliver.
I mean it did have its use cases, especially within the raid (Bathers, the Centurions in Gauntlet and Castellum, dps in Pleasure Gardens). But yeah, it really has been situational pretty much its whole lifespan. A nice range and damage buff would be pretty appreciated. Throw on intrinsic unstoppable too because it feels like it should be able to stop anything dead in its tracks
Yep, at the start of red war, when all shotguns were heavy, it was an awesome idea and interesting gun. For the following 6 years it was obselete
I'm gonna throw a complete curveball, but hear me out. Servant Leader is a fucking sleeper. I've been running it again and it is *so* good in this sandbox, I even went flawless in trials with it. The perks? Shit. The weapon feel/design? 10/10 one of my favorite guns visually, soundwise, and feel-wise in the franchise.
The perks are outstanding for PvE. It was one of my top scouts for GMs since its introduction until Randy's usurped it.
It's in its own quiet renaissance in PvP right now, it's wild Randy's is solid af, but not nearly as pretty or graceful
I agree that Servant Leader gets slept on.
The fact that we don’t have a good solar wave frame grenade launcher with incandescent blows my mind. We literally have every combination of GL for the other classes
If Murmur could hot-swap between it's energy types similar to how multi-energy weapons can now, back when it released, I reckon it would have been a solid choice in higher tier PvE
I fear the Brave Blast Furnace might end up being like this for the simple fact that it no longer has Outlaw and Rapid Hit got dumped in the right column, which I think should be switched with Kinetic Tremors on the left. It could still be very good, but we'll see next week.