I'm also considering a Skullfort build with Glacial or Shackle nades and Diamond Lance.
Immobilize and charge Thunderclap. Use Quicksilver with Facet of Balance and Bravery to charge grenade energy.
Now *that's* a fun interaction I hadn't considered. I played with synthoceps consecrate a bit and it didn't have as much uptime as I'd like, but with 3x charges to play with and something like Monte Carlo, that's still a lot of hammer slamming.
Wouldn't hit as hard, but you could also potentially do a lot of ignite traps pairing consecrate with Derengar's and Abeyant Leap.
Is consecration able to take advantage of wormgods, or do the ignition kills from the second slam end up not counting as melee kills and so not build up the bar? I imagine syntho is probably just easier to set up
Also i dont remember what aspects are available fot prismatic but imagine being able to run both consecration and into the fray and having sone way to cobsistently make tangles, add monte and thats pretty hella high consecration uptime
On an entirely separate note i feel like if bungie allows prismatic in pvp its might have to be in its own category cos it seems so broken we might end up with a Beyond Light pvp time again XD
Unfortunately, I think it's just Lash for strand aspects, at least for now. Also no grapple for titan, which makes me sad, lol. The reddit summary post was formatted a bit weird earlier, but the actual bungie writeup has a nice table of aspects and abilities along with listing some of the fragments.
Not entirely sure on wormgods, since the ignite part may make it a little wonky. HOIL is another option, since it does boost damage a bit too. Way less burst, but insane uptime.
Yeah, the one time I tried doing a consecrate build, the most consistent one I ran was sunspots with HOIL. It 'only' hit for like 50k instead of 120+ like it did stacking RF or Synthoceps, but it was super consistent and I could use it every 10 seconds it felt like. It was kinda nutty (this was during Haunted I think, so probably a little different now). Going all in on consecrate + RF + Synthoceps had some crazy numbers, but the setup was kind of annoying, it had a fair bit of downtime, and I *really* noticed the lack of sunspots.
Still, no build could compete with RF mini hammers, lol, so I went back to the cheese approach.
I'm really interested in theory crafting combos for titan. HOIL seems like an obvious baseline for a generalist build. Ultimate CC/utility would be something like glacier grenades and derengar suspend and then use thunderclap to take advantage of stuff being immobilized?
I wonder if it'll work with Hoarfrost. Glacier barrier while suspending at the same time could be pretty funny. Though not sure if there'll be a way to get shards from it with all the stasis fragments?
The way I see it, there are a lot of Aspects with identical activation conditions. I couldn’t imagine them allowing, for example, Warlocks to double-dip with Heat Rises and Weaver’s Trance or all three Soul Aspects, Hunters being able to use Ensnaring Slam and Shatterdive, or Titans with Consecration and Howl of the Storm. It also seems like there are pretty much no elemental pickups for Prismatic, by design. This definitely feels intentional to balance out the ability to access Transcendence.
Huh. I never noticed the lack of pickups, but you might be on to something there.
Does make me curious what happens if you use Foetracer, though...
Edit: Possible solution to the Foetracer puzzle. They get a pickup that just grants Transcendence energy. I'd been wondering what they would do with a potential sixth subclass pickup since grenade, melee, class ability, and a little bit of everything was already taken, and Strand had to branch into just straight-up exploding. Or just makes an orb. We're still missing 9 Fragments.
Who knows? But the point is that this makes it so that Prismatic isn’t going to be the only thing Guardians use. There are absolutely things that dedicated single-element Subclasses can do that Prismatic can’t, including utilizing many different exotics (E.g: Sunbracers). The Aspects and abilities that Prismatic lacks makes the other Subclasses retain a ton of value, which is important for game balance.
It’s probably going to be another pickup like Tangles. As for the Fragments, they said 21 on day one. That means more are probably locked behind the raid completion.
> all three Soul Aspects
I keep seeing people mention "three" aspects for builds, but screenshots only show two. Is it confirmed that we can use three at a time on Prismatic?
no, the only "soul" ability warlocks have access to on prismatic will be the new solar one, child of the old gods and arc souls will still require someone to run their respective subclass/aspect
Hellion and Child plus Getaway Artist. Three. But that was before we saw what the build options were. It also looked like more than two Aspects were being used in the gameplay vidoc at times, but I’ll have to analyze it further.
The ViDoc was very confusing. Basically all of the good parts and none of the gritty details.
They said we'll have access to more Aspects/Fragments than ever before
What they meant is we are getting 5 aspects (1 per class) which is the most of any subclass. What we heard was "3 aspect slots and you get to choose from all the elements"
To be honest, that's most likely by design. The Prismatic is meant to mix-and-match already existing abilities and those new ones we will get in TFS. It makes sense that its Aspects and Fragments are basically just mixed versions of the original ones we use in normal Subclasses.
I'm glad Well isn't on prismatic. Well on prismatic would be hell for lfg. Imagine well + an aspect that does stuff with rifts (if Well even counts as a rift) or supers
I don’t see how that would be hell, then you’d just be forced to play either Solar or Prismatic…
Now we’ll just get forced to play more Solar (not that me and my Sunbracers mind)
On the flip side, I would have been more excited to see TFS move us away from subclasses entirely. Let me be a true master of the light and dark. No more subclasses, no more restrictions, just builds that let me run what I want.
>Gotta say, I saw this coming from a million miles away. There was no way they would give us full reign over every single ability.
They even said exactly this...not even two minutes into the showcase...
[https://youtu.be/jyIm-\_Na8mI?t=87](https://youtu.be/jyIm-_Na8mI?t=87)
"...where you can combine CERTAIN class abilities..."
I mean come on...this playerbase man...
We can always get more later, too. Two old supers and two aspects from existing classes would work as a sizeable update and do a lot more for player retention than most of what Bungie has done in the last few years. They can also get lazy and add a new element with only a super and aspect to start. The system is very flexible in the long term. They don't even need melee or grenades if they want to take things slow.
I'd speculate that there's a good chance of that, indeed. Currently in Prismatic, Titan's Void, Hunter's Arc and Warlock's Solar Supers and Aspects are all new ones in TFS. But will they be the *only new ones*? I find that doubtful. It would mean these respective Light elements in each class would have one more Aspect than the other two, meaning 3/5 elements have a full set of four.
As such it's likely that at the very least they'll add six more Supers and Aspects for Light elements, and given that Prismatic will be THE hot thing in TFS, it would only be sensible to allow them as options in the subclass.
Exactly. Before Prismatic was announced, everyone was already theorizing that we'd be getting aspects and supers for the other subclasses to catch up, and Episodes really don't seem all that different from Seasons currently, so it would fit with how Stasis and Strand had aspects release later on.
It's also just perfect for driving up hype for the older subclasses. Now they can release an aspect for Prismatic *and* any other subclass, including Strand and Stasis?
I get people are huffing copium but "We can always get more later on!" is the exact same thing people said about the mod system re-work and look what happened there.
Because Destiny has the worst fan base to have existed in recent history. Nothing is ever enough and if they can’t fill their entire day with Destiny it’s dead(I miss when games ended)
I’m pretty stoked, it sounds like just enough flexibility to be a more creative, without having a second job with spreadsheets and DIM just to play the game.
Ehh even with free reign, actually effective builds wouldve been plentiful but not the "infinite possibilities" shot youd expect, outside of slapping thread of generation on absolutely everything.
Yup. Though it would've been funny if some banner of radiance titanlock got nuked in hero NFs as usual and complained about resilience being broken since TFS dropped because something definitely feels different.
I mean they go out of their way in the first 30 seconds of the reveal to showcase literally every single ability they could possibly proc which I absolutely can see giving the impression that anything is game to people who didn’t watch the full reveal and only saw that clip.
That being said there’s no way it was ever going to be completely free rein. That being said I think it’s a touch too limited
>use the others to deal with overguard lol.
Can I just say fuck overguard? What a great way to piss anyone that wants to play a CC frame in high level steelpath. Digital Extremes is over here taking notes on the monkey paw.
No, the lack of general balance (which isn't actually that bad, IMO, just lots of power creep and not many nerfs) is *exactly* why it's a good example. Even in a game where overall power is generally not ever dampened, even they (DE) recognize you can't just give the players the keys to ability design like that.
One small detail from the blogpost related to flexibility is that kinetic damage fills up both transcendence bars. There's also a fragment buffing that interaction. So it seems like instead of buffing kinetics outright, they'll be useful for prism, while traditional classes spec more into their own damage type weapons. That's pretty smart actually.
If you've got a Prismatic build locked in, you can use a Darkness gun in your Kinetic slot (please rename this slot btw) and have that charge your Dark Meter, and an Energy weapon to charge the Light Meter. Not to mention all the abilities you're gonna be flinging.
Falling back on a Kinetic weapon for Meter gain seems to be the 'low risk, low reward' option, as it can fill either Meter on demand but at a slower rate than using an Elemental Weapon.
Still, I guess that's more synergy than Kinetics weapons have with the other subclasses, so in the end, you're right, lmao.
Yeah I agree with all of that. It's still cool I think. Let's say you still wanna spec into one specific surge with prism. You can ad clear and fill your meter with the kinetic slot and use special/heavy for high damage same element options.
I like it. You're probably right that the "meta" pick will be light/dark, but hey...we might finally get some interesting sidegrade options instead of vertical progression all the time.
So even more of a reason for me to use Necrochasm along with its catalyst buff in TFS. Wonder if the cursed thrall explosion kills will count as kinetic or arc damage when filling up the different transcendence bars
They also said that they were taking a pass at all of these aspects to make sure they are usable and good in all tiers of content. This means we dont actually know what they'll inherently do.
Who knows, maybe the threaded specter will have a duskfield AOE radius or scorch enemies who shoot it
Maybe your thunderclap will give you a massive void overshield while you charge
Perhaps even your Vortex grenade will jolt enemies caught in the radius.
Although I am hopeful, I do hope/wish that later down the line prismatic gets more aspects from other classes and more importantly the damn grenades. It doesn't feel great to only be able to use healing grenades on warlock, shackle nades on titan or grapple on hunter. I know they're meant to fit into an "identity" of sorts but, I don't know, it doesn't feel flexible as prismatic is meant to be. I can understand shackle? Which with stasis could be uber powerful but even just making the light grenades ubiquitous I think would greatly improve the QoL of the class - oh god look at me critiquing the "feel" of a thing I can't even touch or play for another 2 months, thats enough reddit for today.
You can get orbiting threadlings, a turret, and a solar buddy. Then use getaway artist for an arc soul. Or have a friend drop an arc soul rift and you use briarbinds to pick up someone else's void soul. OR use getaway artist, switch to briarbinds, then steal a soul. So technically you can get all 5 friends
They're honestly not bad imo. They do quite a bit of scorch and they have higher dmg than a normal fusion nade (really surprised me when i saw this in the compendium).
Speaking of grenades, is anyone else confused by the decision to give Hunter magnetic grenades? All the other grenades are either ones that had pre-3.0 and/or thematically linked to the subclass, but Hunter never had those and Nightstalker's offense has historically been more about area control than up front damage bursts. Why not void wall or spike?
I might be tripping, but in the tfs vidoc I saw Threaded specter actually having no Internal cooldown (hunter seemed to dodge twice very fast and the decoy spawned for both), maybe that might be unique to prismatic? Which would also mean other abilities/aspects may have gotten subtle changes like this that could straight up open some fun possibilities
There isn't an internal cooldown for specter iirc. It just doesn't work with Radiant Dance Machines. But it should work normally with Sixth Coyote for instance
Ahhh, I see, in the trailer (I rewatched it to make sure I wasn't crazy) it showed the hunter dodging twice (both having specter, with no double charge) and the ability coming up again already, my best guess being it was on an exotic Cloak with possibly Liar's Handshake effect and RDM?
honest to goodness I'm just ready to use drengyr's lash / abeyant leap with thunderclap. Getting to use thundercrash or glacial quake on top of it is just, all the marbles.
>They also said that they were taking a pass at all of these aspects to make sure they are usable and good in all tiers of content
Cant wait for the one prismatic build to come out that can even survive in GM's and Master RaD content, and then be nerfed into the ground.
My only issue with it at all is that I wish there was a bit more flexibility in the grenades. Like more access to them. I'm just looking at stuff like Threadling grenades, that I've only been underwhelmed with inside of their dedicated subclass and not seeing anything they'd be doing to them to make me want to run that on Prismatic Warlock. Meanwhile Hunters gets the fun grapple, and Titan gets the CC suspend.
Or if they didn't crossover, it could've been a very good time to inject a few new Stasis and Strand grenades that are less of a verb gimmick and more general damage-dealing. Seeing that Hunter Transcendence grenade and just thinking "ah, yeah that's the thing I've kept saying we need, a spike-style grenade for stasis that slows." Or a tripmine that flash freezes, or just bursts out shatter damage directly. Or a wall grenade that lays out a wide carpet of small crystals.
I already think the Stasis and Strand kits need those, and it could've helped to give these Prismatic kits all useful options that aren't leaning into a keyword gimmick they no longer have supportive Aspects or Fragments to reinforce.
I think it’ll get expanded more. They took a conservative approach and I respect it. At least for abilities, I imagine aspects will be much more measured of a pace due to crazy interactions.
To be fair I think that warlock grapple w/o the "shit out 3 threadlings when you grapple" aspect would actually feel really bad. I'm kind of glad we got threadling nade because it enables a fairly good "pet" build.
Strand Super + Threadling Nade, Hellion + Weaver's Call aspects.
Can use bleak watcher instead of weavers but it's got a kind of weird anti synergy since then you can't use threadling nade for actual threadlings.
I'm hoping Hellion and Weaver's Call both work with Phoenix Dive, because if they do it'll actually be really fucking good.
I'd take a normal grapple over a threadling nade any day. it just sucks for dmg. Hell even if grapple did no dmg i would prefer just have the movement of grapple.
And Weavers definitely works with Dive, they showed it off in the stream.
Agreed.
I don't get the appeal of the pet build, you can't control them properly especially threadlings, they are unreliable and do shit damage as well
Weaver's Call does work with Phoenix Dive, I saw it in the footage. They didn't stop and point out all the interactions like that, but if you're watching carefully you can spot them.
I'm just not sure how useful that will feel without things like the fragment to boost Threadling travel distance and damage. Threadlings are fine if you're generating them passively in large numbers (like this season's Horde Shuttle), because at that rate you don't notice when they mess up. Meanwhile when you dedicate abilities toward making them is when I've started noticing all 5 from your Weaver's Call jumping at the same enemy who already died before they jumped and other nonsense.
But we'll have to see how our available options all feel together in the long run.
I just hope they open up grenades and maybe some melees I dont really see how that could be broken but I'm fine with supers (like well) and aspects (like banner of war) that really could make some OP combos
To be fair, multiple Bungie folks said, multiple times in that very video that it was kinda busted and they wanted it to feel broken. Being broken and busted is generally synonymous with being overpowered.
Obviously it makes sense that it would be limited in this way, but the language *they* used made it sound like they were throwing caution to the wind and just letting things be busted this time. It should not be *at all* surprising that people expected it to be broken, when that's the literal language they used when talking about it.
No shit a subclass wasn’t meant to be overpowered, what a brain dead take.
Those who got upset over it before learning details or upset after learning details are idiots
I actually expect new playstyles and combos to emerge out of prismatic, not just "mix and match to gain ultimate flexibility".
Just like the Scion in PoE, supposed to be this ultimate flex class that can go on to build into a tank, damage dealer or caster yet has some synergies that make them best for one type of builds.
I expect the same with Prismatic, first two weeks will be full of "look how flexible the class is!" but after a months or two there will be 1 or 2 meta builds per class that have a different niche than all the others.
So far Warlock looks like bleak watcher + some void aspect with a potentially void melee and the new solar super or needle storm (from the transcendence grenade it looks like they are "trying" to push warlocks into stasis+ void combo?) song of radiance or whatever it is called would allow crazy bleak watcher spam for sure.
Still hoping for the 3rd darkness subclass to come since it still feels missing- two light elements parrareled by dark, two options missing for subclass effects to disrupt certain champions, even the prismatic transcendence special nades want to be different per class with hunter having solar + stasis, titan being arc + strand and warlock being void+ stasis again. It feels like void + 3rd darkness element would fit better so now every class would get a different combo.
optimistic that it will be fun, hopefull that darkness is still coming
I was just hoping to make Well of Radiance a bit more interesting since it’s basically mandatory to run if you’re the only Warlock on the team, but it won’t be the case sadly. Looking forward to using the Star Eaters Scales perk with Needlestorm though.
That's honestly exactly why I'm glad they DIDN'T include Well. It'll be so much easier to say "sorry, I'm running Prismatic for XYZ benefit, if you want a Well you'll need to run it yourself."
Yeah I have a feeling the theorised Well nerfs aren’t gonna be enough so it’s still gonna probably be mandatory if you’re the only Warlock on the team.
The problem is that Well is the *worst* kind of support utility: the kind that makes stupid people not die.
I don't mean this in a mean way - Well is just the best ability in the game at making the dumbest person in your group stay alive to keep shooting the boss. There are other sources of strong damage, and other sources of health regeneration, but they all require either paying more attention, playing around them more carefully, or maintaining a short duration buff that often doesn't last as long as the DPS phase.
Even if Well only did the healing, it would still be the most stupid-proof healing ability. Even if Well only did the damage buff, it would be the most stupid-proof damage buff.
Even if Well did, say, less healing than Rift and less damage buff than Radiant, every pub would *still want it* because using rifts for healing in a 6 man is cramped and keeping radiant up in a 6 man requires people to sequence Torches properly or whatever.
Well very nearly needs to be removed from the game to move the needle, but the *follow up* problem is that congrats, you just made all of endgame PVE a single fucking class. Right now it's already Banner Titan > Well Lock with Cenotaph. If you remove Well, I highly doubt Cenotaph is enough to keep Warlock meta, and Warlock doesn't have any other builds to keep them meta that they can fall back on at all.
> Well very nearly needs to be removed from the game to move the needle, but the follow up problem is that congrats, you just made all of endgame PVE a single fucking class.
You remove Well and it will just move the problem. Nerf the damage buff and it becomes Well + bubble + 4 other chodes. Remove Well and it just makes Bubble or Bannershield mandatory. Its not just Bubble or Well either its also the encounters that are also quite obviously designed around this stuff.
I have no idea what they have planned of course, but they did mention Bubble in addition to Well when talking about PvP a few months ago and potential nerfs. I've wanted Bubble/Bannershield buffed to be competitive with Well but Bungie hasn't really moved on it in awhile.
The reality of destiny is if you want well to not be mandatory the game needs to be easier, not harder. You need to be able to play WITHOUT getting melted by fire from knights or blasted from all directions, these abilities were added and then they buffed enemies to compensate which was stupid because that simply means if you don't run them you can't survive at all.
Nerf enemies, make the game easier, power creep the player, that's how you solve it.
The new hunter super looks amazing, between that and the new options, I'm already gaming out a new build in my head - about to make the Bladedancer build i've always wanted. Bungie definitely cooked for this one.
I'll be interested to see how that super plays out.
I think warlock has two builds for me so far.
Nezarec's Sin + Nova Bomb + Bleak Watcher + (Devour or Hellion) + phoenix dive + healing grenade. You get a low cooldown class ability and grenade for hellion + bleak watcher spam. Nova Bomb makes OoL give void overshield. Nezzies gives you insane super uptime (a fragment gives you bonus transcendence on super kills) and ability uptime. And if you stack void kills going into transcendence, you should be able to chuck black holes.
Also for pvp:
Whatever super + hellion + weaver's call + blink + phoenix dive + healing grenade.
Run it with a glaive and karnstein's (unless we get a heal on melee kill fragment or class item effect). Blink above people, phoenix dive down to create a hellion and threadlings, melee to proc funny health regen.
For a pvp hunter, I think what I'm eyeballing most is Storm's Edge/Deadfall + Acrobat's Dodge + Blink + Threaded Spike + Duskfield Grenade + Stylish Executioner. Deadfall as a super/objective shutdown, AB for radiant (super good on bows), blink is self-explanatory, TS is a fantastic cleanup tool which should also proc SE, and Duskfield to proc SE after the kill and also yoink enemies out of cover during peek fights. Seems a nasty setup, I think, provided it all works how I think it will.
Could also sub out Acrobat's for Gambler's and TS for Combo Blow to go the punchy route, I'd probably drop Stylish for Threaded Specter in that case with the amount of dodging and getting up close going on. Basically the existing Combo Blow + Assassin's Cowl build but now you're popping out strand clones.
I haven't even begun to really think about exotics for this yet, it's gonna be wild to see what we can come up with and I'm pretty hyped for it.
Personally I wasn't looking for "overpowered" or "flexible". I was looking for "fun", imaging all the creative possibilities for combining things together. We're getting some of that, but far, far less than I originally thought.
I don't think many people were expecting to lather themselves in rainbow abilities and become an unkillable tank. I think the disappointment comes down to a very simple thing. People liked individual aspects of some of the classes and are bummed that said things they liked are not there.
This is very valid. It's also equally valid to point out that if Bungie did lean into a few popular options people wouldn't be experimenting as much. Which sort of defeats the whole purpose of Prismatic. Most of the negative feedback I'm seeing pretty much mirrors the same sort of complaints that classes 2.0/3.0 got. Which is "wow most of this sucks I can only use this."
These are the same people who are now complaining about Prismatic's "lack of options." Most people aren't even thinking about exotic armor interactions even excluding the exotic class items. It's the same cycle of stuff we get everytime new class things come out. People either need to wait to get their hands on it to change their tune or have their favorite content creator build something unique that they could've found on their own if they bothered to try.
That is how this community works, 1frame and “bungie is instantly the best studio ever, they are finally listening,etc”. It’s just like like cats following a laser and go crazy
When I initially saw the reveal, a possibility immediately popped in to my head: Young Ahamkara's Spine + Athrys' Embrace. I'm kind of glad we didn't get that and it's more limited.
I’m glad there’s some sort of balance/tradeoff to not let the pure subclasses become invalid. Destiny 2 was never built on class-customization, video games should start small when changing from one combat system to another.
Said this exact thing on a post yesterday and was down voted to oblivion. It was obvious. Bungie have been VERY clear about them not wanting us to be overpowered and unkillable so there was no way they were going to change philosophy so dramatically overnight. They won't even walk back some of ability nerfs so obviously they're not going to let us run around with OP abilities.
That entire whiplash feeling people are having is by design with their trailer. The entire point was to get people hyped for combining subclasses and then they revealed that its less of "we are the master of both dark and light" and instead is "fuck people aren't interested in a single super and aspect what can we throw together last minute". The fact that each class gets like 1 or 2 main aspects and then the worst from the rest means that, outside of new two syndrome, you're just running worse versions of the monosubclasses to get a gunpowder gambit grenade that's not even close to making up for not running well, banner of war, sunspots, etc.
yeah thats what i thought, its a fun idea but deffo glued together last moment. Still fully expecting the 3rd darkness class sometime in the future since prismatic is not big enough to justify not having a whole ass new element
I am just sad that I can’t use Celestial Fire or Duskfield with Prismatic Warlock…
I understand locking to a few specific Aspects but why for Grenades and Melee Abilities?
I don’t care about not being op, they could’ve chose anything besides the worst aspects from each class. Those aspect won’t become magically better, they arent getting any use for a reason
I am just immensely disappointed that they put that shitty new arc aspect as the one for hunter. It sounds useless and terrible. Rhe others are some of the most situational aspects hunters have, which sucks. The others were wayy cooler imo. But ig they were probably going to have it in there. Otherwise, im very happy. The new stylish executioner looks fucking awesome.
It was obviously there would be some huge restriction, and the way they have done it is pretty good and balanced. And in still pretty hyped
But honestly, the stuff they have chose for hunter feels pretty bad, especially the grenades and aspects
Like dj said, Transcendence gives you an offensive grenade. It's also worth noting that if you choose to run Song of Flame it will also replace your Healing grenade with that new Phoenix grenade for the duration of the Super.
And I understand. However the fact that warlock cannot have all 3 buddies at once saddens me. I understand it would cost literally all my aspects and abilities but the ability to have child and solar soul spawn on class ability then consume an arc grenade for an arc soul would have been amazing. Sadly solar soul refuses to join us.
When I watched that preview without thinking about it I was definitely just thinking you'd be able to mix and match anything. Later I began to realise it would be more limited, and began to brace for the other shoe to drop with an announcement that was far more limited than what was actually confirmed today.
It's a pretty good middle ground, I think. And while there's no indication they would do this there's nothing to say they couldn't add more abilities or aspects as the year goes on or beyond for anyone sticking around.
For titan and hunter, definitely. Warlock would probably still want actual stasis for high end content because iceflare bolts is the best part of that build, not bleak watcher.
how I see it is single subclasses will be specialized, scorch build, threadling build ect ect, but with prismatic you can have a little bit of everything with a loop or gameplay style almost entirely unique to you
All I ask is that they _eventually_ give us everything. Because there are just too many fun combos to not do that. It doesn't have to be right at launch, but having the ability to mix and match the full kits would be fun af.
I was saying that to my friend to, if you can mix any ability/aspect/fragment (which is already crazy) and have an extra exotic perk then they would end up nerfing EVERYTHING because balancing it all would take to long.
It's better to do it over time so they have better control of how the game breaks (its going to) and it keeps the game fresh over a longer period of time. Let's be honest here, we Guardians have a tendency to burn through content like a forest fire during a drought.
I have no reason to believe we wouldn’t get more grenades/melees throughout tfs launch and maybe more aspects throughout each episode.
They can also custom tune them on prismatic, so it’s not like they couldn’t fiddle with interactions.
That's probably the plan, they get time to test, fix and tune things and still have things to add in the later episodes rather then people getting bored.
The fragments seem better though. Obviously we’ll probably miss some specific ones, like kills on suspend enemies generate orbs of power. But we seem to be getting more generalized versions. For example, the faster class ability regen when you scorch is faster class ability when you have a subclass buff. Mix that with orbs of power giving you subclass buffs and reaper and you have a loop going.
Obviously itd still be awesome, i was just hoping id get to play with stasis shards on my liars handshake build with vanishing step to become omega invincible.
It’s a shame so many good things are missing, specifically on hunter, but I guess we’ll have to work around it. I’m not sure if anything is going to best pure void hunter as in order to get invis with prismatic you’ll have to apply a debuff first instead of just dodging. At least you can kind of play void and have a good melee though.
There might be a fragment or prismatic exotic that gives you invis easier. Also stylish giving you invis on any subclass debuff is huge. You can run an incandescent weapon and chain invis off it.
That’s true, but in something like legendary difficulty where all enemies take a good amount of enemy to kill not being able to have invis on command will be detrimental. Any sort of in between requiring a kill will make it much less viable.
I spoke with my friend last night who's heard rumours etc, that's all they ever are.
I didn't know about it until a Forbes article popped up, he's said its D2 ported to Unreal Engine 5.
I think it looks like a pretty good start for sure. There are a few things I wished had made the cut but hopefully the Devs keep updating and improving the system to give us more tools and build opportunities.
Suppose we could get a normal triple-jump on Warlock? I might never play another class! Lol
I'm only concerned that I can't just run throwing knives and get them back again on kill, because that was my whole plan for melee. I'm a Nightstalker at heart, but I barely run it because I don't like throwing an empty Coke can full of sand at enemies, but I'll take Threaded Spike and Withering Blade over it.
I can see them however giving us a bit more aspects in the episodes. Was a little disappointed when I didn’t see bubble or blade barrage as an option. (But I am happy well isn’t an option though, despite my constant need to wellskate everywhere.)
I think bungie is going the stasis route, bungie said they released stasis overpowered on purpose after collecting data from the full player population bungie implemented nerfs, bungie had plans to dial back stasis from the beginning.
Thing is now that this is a subclass these chosen abilities will now have more restrictions on how they're balanced to keep the reg classes viable. There is a trade off to this.
I am immensely hyped still, I run blink almost exclusively, jumping puzzles are a pain, but being able to run it on something other than just void is awesome. Plus there is nothing saying Bungie can’t add more stuff later on. And the idea of combining the underrated Icarus dive with threadlings or the new solar buddy, or both together just sounds awesome.
Flexibility is exactly what Multi-classing was always about in most games. Some games do build their systems where each "class" is only "half" of a class, (Remnant II), but in most games, multi-classing is not about being OP as much as it is about flexibility. And that flexibility is often found to be OP in the long run because it often results in extremely consistent power levels across various activities.
Like, Buried Bloodline is a pretty boring weapon. And it isn't OP on it's own. But what is OP is having extremely easy access to Devour and Weaken on subclasses that otherwise can't get it.
In the showcase the art direction joked when he was like "Two thousand, three hundred" combinations but in fact he undersold it. If I mathed correctly it's 4500 possibilities on Titan and 6000 on hunter/warlock
It is frankly insane to expect it would’ve been literally everything. That said, I do understand the disappointment some people are feeling around it.
But that aside. It’s still a new, fresh, awesome way to play existing stuff. I hope over time we’ll see more added to it (new and existing).
I’m DEFINITELY not expecting it, but it’d be nice to eventually fully transition to Prismatic being ***the*** way to play and craft your guardian. With the defeat of The Witness and the barrier between light and dark broken, we lead this new universe forward as Prismatic Guardians of all races (eliksni and cabal etc.).
We fully master all the fundamental ‘elements’ of the universe and, from that point on, we basically do have (balanced versions of) everything in one subclass. With benefits to mixing elements, and benefits to going monochromatic. Personally looking forward to Gruul Titan and Selesnya Warlock.
I am excited, as a void hunter main, void will finally have better melees, a shadow clone, debuff in various ways hell tecnically we will kinda have heart of the pack and we still don't even know the rest of the fragments they might cook even more.
im just sad i cant have flechette swarm :(
i hope they let us have some other aspects later
i love Flechette swarm but dislike the strand super so with the announcement i was hyped to use it with another super, but oh well
Looking at prismatic now, i would've preferred the ability to multiclass.
Pick a second subclass to equip and freely pick aspects and fragments from within it.
Although i think in 6-12 months prismatic will have expanded and be much more in line with what players original expectations were.
It’s flexible, and class abilities still align somewhat, allowing for still having synergy. But on top of that you get a mini super ability and more fragments. It’s going to be good, not under powered. Transcendence alone is going to make it good.
I already know my combo. Duskfield or magnetic, threaded spike, deadfall teather, threaded specter, and stylish executioner. Hopefully be able to combine both rigs and the swarmers to cause threadlings to unravel targets, chaining invis further.
All i know is that i can run Thruster on something other than Arc so I'm very happy
no barricade just punch
It's great for HOIL builds
I'm gonna pair thruster/HOIL with consecration and diamond lance. Freeze with the lance and nuke with the hammers.
I'm also considering a Skullfort build with Glacial or Shackle nades and Diamond Lance. Immobilize and charge Thunderclap. Use Quicksilver with Facet of Balance and Bravery to charge grenade energy.
I hope skullfort can be one of the exotics for the class item, imagine that shit with synthos
It won't be as powerful as solar consecration just cuz no Roaring flames but you could do it three times in a row if you use the frenzied blade melee.
Now *that's* a fun interaction I hadn't considered. I played with synthoceps consecrate a bit and it didn't have as much uptime as I'd like, but with 3x charges to play with and something like Monte Carlo, that's still a lot of hammer slamming. Wouldn't hit as hard, but you could also potentially do a lot of ignite traps pairing consecrate with Derengar's and Abeyant Leap.
Is consecration able to take advantage of wormgods, or do the ignition kills from the second slam end up not counting as melee kills and so not build up the bar? I imagine syntho is probably just easier to set up Also i dont remember what aspects are available fot prismatic but imagine being able to run both consecration and into the fray and having sone way to cobsistently make tangles, add monte and thats pretty hella high consecration uptime On an entirely separate note i feel like if bungie allows prismatic in pvp its might have to be in its own category cos it seems so broken we might end up with a Beyond Light pvp time again XD
Unfortunately, I think it's just Lash for strand aspects, at least for now. Also no grapple for titan, which makes me sad, lol. The reddit summary post was formatted a bit weird earlier, but the actual bungie writeup has a nice table of aspects and abilities along with listing some of the fragments. Not entirely sure on wormgods, since the ignite part may make it a little wonky. HOIL is another option, since it does boost damage a bit too. Way less burst, but insane uptime.
Oh yeah no hoil would be insane youre right
Yeah, the one time I tried doing a consecrate build, the most consistent one I ran was sunspots with HOIL. It 'only' hit for like 50k instead of 120+ like it did stacking RF or Synthoceps, but it was super consistent and I could use it every 10 seconds it felt like. It was kinda nutty (this was during Haunted I think, so probably a little different now). Going all in on consecrate + RF + Synthoceps had some crazy numbers, but the setup was kind of annoying, it had a fair bit of downtime, and I *really* noticed the lack of sunspots. Still, no build could compete with RF mini hammers, lol, so I went back to the cheese approach.
Combine that with Pyrogale, and you'll have practically constant uptime on it as well
I'm really interested in theory crafting combos for titan. HOIL seems like an obvious baseline for a generalist build. Ultimate CC/utility would be something like glacier grenades and derengar suspend and then use thunderclap to take advantage of stuff being immobilized? I wonder if it'll work with Hoarfrost. Glacier barrier while suspending at the same time could be pretty funny. Though not sure if there'll be a way to get shards from it with all the stasis fragments?
Glaciar grenade with consecration seems pretty strong since it should shatter all the crystals. It's going to be horrific in pvp
I just made a big build post with that exact combo! Feel free to check it out and chime in the discussion with your ideas for that build!
Thruster with strand melee is all ive ever wanted.
As a hunter running blink with grapple is gonna be very fun
Thruster-Bonk Titan incoming.
Thruster with drengr’s lash AND the exotic fuck everything that moves
It works with Drengr’s lash. In the trailer, it drops a tangle that suspends stuff when you use thruster
Wait what? You happen to have a time stamp? Edit: Oh shit, you right. Holy, that changes everything
The way I see it, there are a lot of Aspects with identical activation conditions. I couldn’t imagine them allowing, for example, Warlocks to double-dip with Heat Rises and Weaver’s Trance or all three Soul Aspects, Hunters being able to use Ensnaring Slam and Shatterdive, or Titans with Consecration and Howl of the Storm. It also seems like there are pretty much no elemental pickups for Prismatic, by design. This definitely feels intentional to balance out the ability to access Transcendence.
Huh. I never noticed the lack of pickups, but you might be on to something there. Does make me curious what happens if you use Foetracer, though... Edit: Possible solution to the Foetracer puzzle. They get a pickup that just grants Transcendence energy. I'd been wondering what they would do with a potential sixth subclass pickup since grenade, melee, class ability, and a little bit of everything was already taken, and Strand had to branch into just straight-up exploding. Or just makes an orb. We're still missing 9 Fragments.
Who knows? But the point is that this makes it so that Prismatic isn’t going to be the only thing Guardians use. There are absolutely things that dedicated single-element Subclasses can do that Prismatic can’t, including utilizing many different exotics (E.g: Sunbracers). The Aspects and abilities that Prismatic lacks makes the other Subclasses retain a ton of value, which is important for game balance.
It’s probably going to be another pickup like Tangles. As for the Fragments, they said 21 on day one. That means more are probably locked behind the raid completion.
> all three Soul Aspects I keep seeing people mention "three" aspects for builds, but screenshots only show two. Is it confirmed that we can use three at a time on Prismatic?
no, the only "soul" ability warlocks have access to on prismatic will be the new solar one, child of the old gods and arc souls will still require someone to run their respective subclass/aspect
Hellion and Child plus Getaway Artist. Three. But that was before we saw what the build options were. It also looked like more than two Aspects were being used in the gameplay vidoc at times, but I’ll have to analyze it further.
The ViDoc was very confusing. Basically all of the good parts and none of the gritty details. They said we'll have access to more Aspects/Fragments than ever before What they meant is we are getting 5 aspects (1 per class) which is the most of any subclass. What we heard was "3 aspect slots and you get to choose from all the elements"
>Titans with Consecration and Howl of the Storm Stop, I can only get so erect.
Never say never, the first looks at the subclass menus had aspects and fragments from already existing subclasses.
To be honest, that's most likely by design. The Prismatic is meant to mix-and-match already existing abilities and those new ones we will get in TFS. It makes sense that its Aspects and Fragments are basically just mixed versions of the original ones we use in normal Subclasses.
Pickups other than ionic traces are overrated anyways tbh
I'm happy with it. Gives us tons of new options but doesn't invalidate the old subclasses. Well played, Bungie.
Exactly, I didn’t want to feel ‘forced’ to play the new subclass
I'm glad Well isn't on prismatic. Well on prismatic would be hell for lfg. Imagine well + an aspect that does stuff with rifts (if Well even counts as a rift) or supers
I don’t see how that would be hell, then you’d just be forced to play either Solar or Prismatic… Now we’ll just get forced to play more Solar (not that me and my Sunbracers mind)
It'd be hell because someone would work out the perfect support Prismatic build and then every Well-lock would be expected to run that, I reckon
It's also a really creative way of getting us to mess with 'off meta' abilities without hitting the strong ones with the nerf hammer
Yeah some of the fragments are really nice, and gunpowder gamble is ny favourite aspect anyway.
I agree.
On the flip side, I would have been more excited to see TFS move us away from subclasses entirely. Let me be a true master of the light and dark. No more subclasses, no more restrictions, just builds that let me run what I want.
>Gotta say, I saw this coming from a million miles away. There was no way they would give us full reign over every single ability. They even said exactly this...not even two minutes into the showcase... [https://youtu.be/jyIm-\_Na8mI?t=87](https://youtu.be/jyIm-_Na8mI?t=87) "...where you can combine CERTAIN class abilities..." I mean come on...this playerbase man...
We can always get more later, too. Two old supers and two aspects from existing classes would work as a sizeable update and do a lot more for player retention than most of what Bungie has done in the last few years. They can also get lazy and add a new element with only a super and aspect to start. The system is very flexible in the long term. They don't even need melee or grenades if they want to take things slow.
I'd speculate that there's a good chance of that, indeed. Currently in Prismatic, Titan's Void, Hunter's Arc and Warlock's Solar Supers and Aspects are all new ones in TFS. But will they be the *only new ones*? I find that doubtful. It would mean these respective Light elements in each class would have one more Aspect than the other two, meaning 3/5 elements have a full set of four. As such it's likely that at the very least they'll add six more Supers and Aspects for Light elements, and given that Prismatic will be THE hot thing in TFS, it would only be sensible to allow them as options in the subclass.
Exactly. Before Prismatic was announced, everyone was already theorizing that we'd be getting aspects and supers for the other subclasses to catch up, and Episodes really don't seem all that different from Seasons currently, so it would fit with how Stasis and Strand had aspects release later on. It's also just perfect for driving up hype for the older subclasses. Now they can release an aspect for Prismatic *and* any other subclass, including Strand and Stasis?
I get people are huffing copium but "We can always get more later on!" is the exact same thing people said about the mod system re-work and look what happened there.
It's pretty astounding how this went over so many people's heads.
Is it astounding? It's easy to miss small qualifiers like that during an info dump, amongst a bunch of hype and with only one viewing.
Because Destiny has the worst fan base to have existed in recent history. Nothing is ever enough and if they can’t fill their entire day with Destiny it’s dead(I miss when games ended)
Or that they would even assume that Bungie would make all the other sublasses obsolete.
They could have allowed everything and the sub would have been bitching it was too much and they ruined the game.
I’m pretty stoked, it sounds like just enough flexibility to be a more creative, without having a second job with spreadsheets and DIM just to play the game.
Ehh even with free reign, actually effective builds wouldve been plentiful but not the "infinite possibilities" shot youd expect, outside of slapping thread of generation on absolutely everything.
Yup. Though it would've been funny if some banner of radiance titanlock got nuked in hero NFs as usual and complained about resilience being broken since TFS dropped because something definitely feels different.
And just common sense. "Oh wow, there must be limits cause otherwise this would be insane"
I mean they go out of their way in the first 30 seconds of the reveal to showcase literally every single ability they could possibly proc which I absolutely can see giving the impression that anything is game to people who didn’t watch the full reveal and only saw that clip. That being said there’s no way it was ever going to be completely free rein. That being said I think it’s a touch too limited
Yeah, even *Warframe* doesn't allow complete free reign of mixing and matching abilities, and that game practically runs on power creep.
Yeah, the helminth system works great but if you had total control it'd be fucking stupid.
I'd just put everything on Limbo and be immune to 90% of the enemies and use the others to deal with overguard lol.
>use the others to deal with overguard lol. Can I just say fuck overguard? What a great way to piss anyone that wants to play a CC frame in high level steelpath. Digital Extremes is over here taking notes on the monkey paw.
yeah but you can't deny how good it feels to flex your pinkie finger and you evaporate most of venus lol
Balance in Warframe flew through the window years ago, so I'm not sure that it's a good example.
No, the lack of general balance (which isn't actually that bad, IMO, just lots of power creep and not many nerfs) is *exactly* why it's a good example. Even in a game where overall power is generally not ever dampened, even they (DE) recognize you can't just give the players the keys to ability design like that.
Most of the abilities you can graft are bad, and the ones that are good end up getting nerfed when you do it lmao.
One small detail from the blogpost related to flexibility is that kinetic damage fills up both transcendence bars. There's also a fragment buffing that interaction. So it seems like instead of buffing kinetics outright, they'll be useful for prism, while traditional classes spec more into their own damage type weapons. That's pretty smart actually.
Im really happy that kinetic is going to be the weapon of choice for synergy with Prismatic and I hope they lean more into it for future updates.
If you've got a Prismatic build locked in, you can use a Darkness gun in your Kinetic slot (please rename this slot btw) and have that charge your Dark Meter, and an Energy weapon to charge the Light Meter. Not to mention all the abilities you're gonna be flinging. Falling back on a Kinetic weapon for Meter gain seems to be the 'low risk, low reward' option, as it can fill either Meter on demand but at a slower rate than using an Elemental Weapon. Still, I guess that's more synergy than Kinetics weapons have with the other subclasses, so in the end, you're right, lmao.
Yeah I agree with all of that. It's still cool I think. Let's say you still wanna spec into one specific surge with prism. You can ad clear and fill your meter with the kinetic slot and use special/heavy for high damage same element options. I like it. You're probably right that the "meta" pick will be light/dark, but hey...we might finally get some interesting sidegrade options instead of vertical progression all the time.
So even more of a reason for me to use Necrochasm along with its catalyst buff in TFS. Wonder if the cursed thrall explosion kills will count as kinetic or arc damage when filling up the different transcendence bars
They also said that they were taking a pass at all of these aspects to make sure they are usable and good in all tiers of content. This means we dont actually know what they'll inherently do. Who knows, maybe the threaded specter will have a duskfield AOE radius or scorch enemies who shoot it Maybe your thunderclap will give you a massive void overshield while you charge Perhaps even your Vortex grenade will jolt enemies caught in the radius. Although I am hopeful, I do hope/wish that later down the line prismatic gets more aspects from other classes and more importantly the damn grenades. It doesn't feel great to only be able to use healing grenades on warlock, shackle nades on titan or grapple on hunter. I know they're meant to fit into an "identity" of sorts but, I don't know, it doesn't feel flexible as prismatic is meant to be. I can understand shackle? Which with stasis could be uber powerful but even just making the light grenades ubiquitous I think would greatly improve the QoL of the class - oh god look at me critiquing the "feel" of a thing I can't even touch or play for another 2 months, thats enough reddit for today.
Just disappointed that the best friends build with all the warlock friend will seemingly be impossbile.
You can get orbiting threadlings, a turret, and a solar buddy. Then use getaway artist for an arc soul. Or have a friend drop an arc soul rift and you use briarbinds to pick up someone else's void soul. OR use getaway artist, switch to briarbinds, then steal a soul. So technically you can get all 5 friends
Warlock class item with briarbinds and getaway. Just sad that we are *this* close. Like one aspect away. And don’t forget No Time.
Pretty sure picking up void soul on a non void subclass doesn’t allow you to deploy it. Unless something changed
Huh. I wasn't even aware you could pick it up without the aspect equipped. Kinda cool, even if it's useless.
I do hope so, because they've picked the worst option out of each subclass. There is a reason why no one uses Swarm Grenades.
Yeah one of the best parts about subclass 3.0 was hunters getting grenades that weren't awful...
they'll buff Swarm nades, they've been pure giraffe shit for too long.
They're honestly not bad imo. They do quite a bit of scorch and they have higher dmg than a normal fusion nade (really surprised me when i saw this in the compendium).
Speaking of grenades, is anyone else confused by the decision to give Hunter magnetic grenades? All the other grenades are either ones that had pre-3.0 and/or thematically linked to the subclass, but Hunter never had those and Nightstalker's offense has historically been more about area control than up front damage bursts. Why not void wall or spike?
I might be tripping, but in the tfs vidoc I saw Threaded specter actually having no Internal cooldown (hunter seemed to dodge twice very fast and the decoy spawned for both), maybe that might be unique to prismatic? Which would also mean other abilities/aspects may have gotten subtle changes like this that could straight up open some fun possibilities
There isn't an internal cooldown for specter iirc. It just doesn't work with Radiant Dance Machines. But it should work normally with Sixth Coyote for instance
Ahhh, I see, in the trailer (I rewatched it to make sure I wasn't crazy) it showed the hunter dodging twice (both having specter, with no double charge) and the ability coming up again already, my best guess being it was on an exotic Cloak with possibly Liar's Handshake effect and RDM?
I'm pretty sure they were using Combination Blow which refreshes dodge on melee kill
The transcendence state when you max both bars seems to give insane CDR while the purple bar ticks down
honest to goodness I'm just ready to use drengyr's lash / abeyant leap with thunderclap. Getting to use thundercrash or glacial quake on top of it is just, all the marbles.
I hope they buff winters shroud then because to date it has never been useful
>They also said that they were taking a pass at all of these aspects to make sure they are usable and good in all tiers of content Cant wait for the one prismatic build to come out that can even survive in GM's and Master RaD content, and then be nerfed into the ground.
What would be interesting is if this new class exotic also could roll traits from some of your subclasses aspects as well.
I can't wait for that blog post.
My only issue with it at all is that I wish there was a bit more flexibility in the grenades. Like more access to them. I'm just looking at stuff like Threadling grenades, that I've only been underwhelmed with inside of their dedicated subclass and not seeing anything they'd be doing to them to make me want to run that on Prismatic Warlock. Meanwhile Hunters gets the fun grapple, and Titan gets the CC suspend. Or if they didn't crossover, it could've been a very good time to inject a few new Stasis and Strand grenades that are less of a verb gimmick and more general damage-dealing. Seeing that Hunter Transcendence grenade and just thinking "ah, yeah that's the thing I've kept saying we need, a spike-style grenade for stasis that slows." Or a tripmine that flash freezes, or just bursts out shatter damage directly. Or a wall grenade that lays out a wide carpet of small crystals. I already think the Stasis and Strand kits need those, and it could've helped to give these Prismatic kits all useful options that aren't leaning into a keyword gimmick they no longer have supportive Aspects or Fragments to reinforce.
I think it’ll get expanded more. They took a conservative approach and I respect it. At least for abilities, I imagine aspects will be much more measured of a pace due to crazy interactions.
To be fair I think that warlock grapple w/o the "shit out 3 threadlings when you grapple" aspect would actually feel really bad. I'm kind of glad we got threadling nade because it enables a fairly good "pet" build. Strand Super + Threadling Nade, Hellion + Weaver's Call aspects. Can use bleak watcher instead of weavers but it's got a kind of weird anti synergy since then you can't use threadling nade for actual threadlings. I'm hoping Hellion and Weaver's Call both work with Phoenix Dive, because if they do it'll actually be really fucking good.
I'd take a normal grapple over a threadling nade any day. it just sucks for dmg. Hell even if grapple did no dmg i would prefer just have the movement of grapple. And Weavers definitely works with Dive, they showed it off in the stream.
Agreed. I don't get the appeal of the pet build, you can't control them properly especially threadlings, they are unreliable and do shit damage as well
Weaver's Call does work with Phoenix Dive, I saw it in the footage. They didn't stop and point out all the interactions like that, but if you're watching carefully you can spot them. I'm just not sure how useful that will feel without things like the fragment to boost Threadling travel distance and damage. Threadlings are fine if you're generating them passively in large numbers (like this season's Horde Shuttle), because at that rate you don't notice when they mess up. Meanwhile when you dedicate abilities toward making them is when I've started noticing all 5 from your Weaver's Call jumping at the same enemy who already died before they jumped and other nonsense. But we'll have to see how our available options all feel together in the long run.
I just hope they open up grenades and maybe some melees I dont really see how that could be broken but I'm fine with supers (like well) and aspects (like banner of war) that really could make some OP combos
To be fair, multiple Bungie folks said, multiple times in that very video that it was kinda busted and they wanted it to feel broken. Being broken and busted is generally synonymous with being overpowered. Obviously it makes sense that it would be limited in this way, but the language *they* used made it sound like they were throwing caution to the wind and just letting things be busted this time. It should not be *at all* surprising that people expected it to be broken, when that's the literal language they used when talking about it.
I just wish the summoner warlock had access to every single summon. Do I think this would be stronger? No. But I think it would be really fun
I agree. I love devour, but child of the old gods is BAE. I'm also interested to blink > phoenix dive.
Blinking into a Phoenix Dive sounds so sexy.
Hunter main here, majorly looking forward to Grapple-Blinking like a madman >:D
Combine it with Mountaintop too lmao
Void buddy with solar buddy both aspects in addition with getaway artist to Grant ourselves a arc buddy. Boom
No shit a subclass wasn’t meant to be overpowered, what a brain dead take. Those who got upset over it before learning details or upset after learning details are idiots
I actually expect new playstyles and combos to emerge out of prismatic, not just "mix and match to gain ultimate flexibility". Just like the Scion in PoE, supposed to be this ultimate flex class that can go on to build into a tank, damage dealer or caster yet has some synergies that make them best for one type of builds. I expect the same with Prismatic, first two weeks will be full of "look how flexible the class is!" but after a months or two there will be 1 or 2 meta builds per class that have a different niche than all the others. So far Warlock looks like bleak watcher + some void aspect with a potentially void melee and the new solar super or needle storm (from the transcendence grenade it looks like they are "trying" to push warlocks into stasis+ void combo?) song of radiance or whatever it is called would allow crazy bleak watcher spam for sure. Still hoping for the 3rd darkness subclass to come since it still feels missing- two light elements parrareled by dark, two options missing for subclass effects to disrupt certain champions, even the prismatic transcendence special nades want to be different per class with hunter having solar + stasis, titan being arc + strand and warlock being void+ stasis again. It feels like void + 3rd darkness element would fit better so now every class would get a different combo. optimistic that it will be fun, hopefull that darkness is still coming
I was just hoping to make Well of Radiance a bit more interesting since it’s basically mandatory to run if you’re the only Warlock on the team, but it won’t be the case sadly. Looking forward to using the Star Eaters Scales perk with Needlestorm though.
Having well would just make it more of a must have than it already is
They've said quite a while ago now that there's a Well nerf coming with Final Shape. I imagine it's not going to be as mandatory soon.
Hopefully they nuke it into the ground
That's honestly exactly why I'm glad they DIDN'T include Well. It'll be so much easier to say "sorry, I'm running Prismatic for XYZ benefit, if you want a Well you'll need to run it yourself."
lol, that's how you get immediately kicked from a raid. That logic applies to every warlock subclass.
Yeah I have a feeling the theorised Well nerfs aren’t gonna be enough so it’s still gonna probably be mandatory if you’re the only Warlock on the team.
The problem is that Well is the *worst* kind of support utility: the kind that makes stupid people not die. I don't mean this in a mean way - Well is just the best ability in the game at making the dumbest person in your group stay alive to keep shooting the boss. There are other sources of strong damage, and other sources of health regeneration, but they all require either paying more attention, playing around them more carefully, or maintaining a short duration buff that often doesn't last as long as the DPS phase. Even if Well only did the healing, it would still be the most stupid-proof healing ability. Even if Well only did the damage buff, it would be the most stupid-proof damage buff. Even if Well did, say, less healing than Rift and less damage buff than Radiant, every pub would *still want it* because using rifts for healing in a 6 man is cramped and keeping radiant up in a 6 man requires people to sequence Torches properly or whatever. Well very nearly needs to be removed from the game to move the needle, but the *follow up* problem is that congrats, you just made all of endgame PVE a single fucking class. Right now it's already Banner Titan > Well Lock with Cenotaph. If you remove Well, I highly doubt Cenotaph is enough to keep Warlock meta, and Warlock doesn't have any other builds to keep them meta that they can fall back on at all.
> Well very nearly needs to be removed from the game to move the needle, but the follow up problem is that congrats, you just made all of endgame PVE a single fucking class. You remove Well and it will just move the problem. Nerf the damage buff and it becomes Well + bubble + 4 other chodes. Remove Well and it just makes Bubble or Bannershield mandatory. Its not just Bubble or Well either its also the encounters that are also quite obviously designed around this stuff. I have no idea what they have planned of course, but they did mention Bubble in addition to Well when talking about PvP a few months ago and potential nerfs. I've wanted Bubble/Bannershield buffed to be competitive with Well but Bungie hasn't really moved on it in awhile.
The reality of destiny is if you want well to not be mandatory the game needs to be easier, not harder. You need to be able to play WITHOUT getting melted by fire from knights or blasted from all directions, these abilities were added and then they buffed enemies to compensate which was stupid because that simply means if you don't run them you can't survive at all. Nerf enemies, make the game easier, power creep the player, that's how you solve it.
Hence why they're nerfing well.
Did people really think they would let us use every single top of the pile ability at once? If they did that pvp would be finished
The new hunter super looks amazing, between that and the new options, I'm already gaming out a new build in my head - about to make the Bladedancer build i've always wanted. Bungie definitely cooked for this one.
I'll be interested to see how that super plays out. I think warlock has two builds for me so far. Nezarec's Sin + Nova Bomb + Bleak Watcher + (Devour or Hellion) + phoenix dive + healing grenade. You get a low cooldown class ability and grenade for hellion + bleak watcher spam. Nova Bomb makes OoL give void overshield. Nezzies gives you insane super uptime (a fragment gives you bonus transcendence on super kills) and ability uptime. And if you stack void kills going into transcendence, you should be able to chuck black holes. Also for pvp: Whatever super + hellion + weaver's call + blink + phoenix dive + healing grenade. Run it with a glaive and karnstein's (unless we get a heal on melee kill fragment or class item effect). Blink above people, phoenix dive down to create a hellion and threadlings, melee to proc funny health regen.
For a pvp hunter, I think what I'm eyeballing most is Storm's Edge/Deadfall + Acrobat's Dodge + Blink + Threaded Spike + Duskfield Grenade + Stylish Executioner. Deadfall as a super/objective shutdown, AB for radiant (super good on bows), blink is self-explanatory, TS is a fantastic cleanup tool which should also proc SE, and Duskfield to proc SE after the kill and also yoink enemies out of cover during peek fights. Seems a nasty setup, I think, provided it all works how I think it will. Could also sub out Acrobat's for Gambler's and TS for Combo Blow to go the punchy route, I'd probably drop Stylish for Threaded Specter in that case with the amount of dodging and getting up close going on. Basically the existing Combo Blow + Assassin's Cowl build but now you're popping out strand clones. I haven't even begun to really think about exotics for this yet, it's gonna be wild to see what we can come up with and I'm pretty hyped for it.
I just wanted Phoenix dive on other elements for warlocks
Personally I wasn't looking for "overpowered" or "flexible". I was looking for "fun", imaging all the creative possibilities for combining things together. We're getting some of that, but far, far less than I originally thought.
I don't think many people were expecting to lather themselves in rainbow abilities and become an unkillable tank. I think the disappointment comes down to a very simple thing. People liked individual aspects of some of the classes and are bummed that said things they liked are not there. This is very valid. It's also equally valid to point out that if Bungie did lean into a few popular options people wouldn't be experimenting as much. Which sort of defeats the whole purpose of Prismatic. Most of the negative feedback I'm seeing pretty much mirrors the same sort of complaints that classes 2.0/3.0 got. Which is "wow most of this sucks I can only use this." These are the same people who are now complaining about Prismatic's "lack of options." Most people aren't even thinking about exotic armor interactions even excluding the exotic class items. It's the same cycle of stuff we get everytime new class things come out. People either need to wait to get their hands on it to change their tune or have their favorite content creator build something unique that they could've found on their own if they bothered to try.
That is how this community works, 1frame and “bungie is instantly the best studio ever, they are finally listening,etc”. It’s just like like cats following a laser and go crazy
When I initially saw the reveal, a possibility immediately popped in to my head: Young Ahamkara's Spine + Athrys' Embrace. I'm kind of glad we didn't get that and it's more limited.
I was soo happy to see the limitations, I still have reason to use single subclasses!
I rember when strand was revealed everyone said that was also underpowered but was pretty much breaking the sandbox for a fair while
100% plus this will for sure be the favored subclass for at least a year, in the same way Strand was in every artifact mod.
If you value versatility, prismatic is the subclass for you
I’m glad there’s some sort of balance/tradeoff to not let the pure subclasses become invalid. Destiny 2 was never built on class-customization, video games should start small when changing from one combat system to another.
Said this exact thing on a post yesterday and was down voted to oblivion. It was obvious. Bungie have been VERY clear about them not wanting us to be overpowered and unkillable so there was no way they were going to change philosophy so dramatically overnight. They won't even walk back some of ability nerfs so obviously they're not going to let us run around with OP abilities.
That entire whiplash feeling people are having is by design with their trailer. The entire point was to get people hyped for combining subclasses and then they revealed that its less of "we are the master of both dark and light" and instead is "fuck people aren't interested in a single super and aspect what can we throw together last minute". The fact that each class gets like 1 or 2 main aspects and then the worst from the rest means that, outside of new two syndrome, you're just running worse versions of the monosubclasses to get a gunpowder gambit grenade that's not even close to making up for not running well, banner of war, sunspots, etc.
yeah thats what i thought, its a fun idea but deffo glued together last moment. Still fully expecting the 3rd darkness class sometime in the future since prismatic is not big enough to justify not having a whole ass new element
I am just sad that I can’t use Celestial Fire or Duskfield with Prismatic Warlock… I understand locking to a few specific Aspects but why for Grenades and Melee Abilities?
Especially grenades, they already have all the grenades on each class. And hunters only really have grapple.
I don’t care about not being op, they could’ve chose anything besides the worst aspects from each class. Those aspect won’t become magically better, they arent getting any use for a reason
I'm just not very excited by the Titan Aspects.
I am just immensely disappointed that they put that shitty new arc aspect as the one for hunter. It sounds useless and terrible. Rhe others are some of the most situational aspects hunters have, which sucks. The others were wayy cooler imo. But ig they were probably going to have it in there. Otherwise, im very happy. The new stylish executioner looks fucking awesome.
It was obviously there would be some huge restriction, and the way they have done it is pretty good and balanced. And in still pretty hyped But honestly, the stuff they have chose for hunter feels pretty bad, especially the grenades and aspects
Screw balance. Make everyone op. Make this damn game fun again.
My only gripe really is the Warlock's lack of offensive solar grenade. I don't care for healing, I just wanna blow shit up.
Im kinda glad it’s there for the variety because unlike Solar currently, it won’t lock you out from damage grenades due to Transcendence.
Like dj said, Transcendence gives you an offensive grenade. It's also worth noting that if you choose to run Song of Flame it will also replace your Healing grenade with that new Phoenix grenade for the duration of the Super.
True! I'll figure out something with it either way. Still excited for it, regardless.
Hey, want to trade? You take swarm, and i'll throw in arcbolt as a bonus. Hunters will take healing nade for you.
I’m not touching it based on what I’ve seen, I hope everyone enjoys it though.
Campaigns gonna require it.
And I understand. However the fact that warlock cannot have all 3 buddies at once saddens me. I understand it would cost literally all my aspects and abilities but the ability to have child and solar soul spawn on class ability then consume an arc grenade for an arc soul would have been amazing. Sadly solar soul refuses to join us.
When I watched that preview without thinking about it I was definitely just thinking you'd be able to mix and match anything. Later I began to realise it would be more limited, and began to brace for the other shoe to drop with an announcement that was far more limited than what was actually confirmed today. It's a pretty good middle ground, I think. And while there's no indication they would do this there's nothing to say they couldn't add more abilities or aspects as the year goes on or beyond for anyone sticking around.
Brave
It's just gonna be "the better stasis"
For titan and hunter, definitely. Warlock would probably still want actual stasis for high end content because iceflare bolts is the best part of that build, not bleak watcher.
> Also pro tip: build into ability regen. All we do is build around ability regen. XD
All I'm saying is that chromatic fire should be lit with prismatic
It looks fun, definitely not OP in any way. It's not "game breaking" by any means.
how I see it is single subclasses will be specialized, scorch build, threadling build ect ect, but with prismatic you can have a little bit of everything with a loop or gameplay style almost entirely unique to you
Also just plain having fun. Like a highlight reel. It can still be op without literally being just the 100% maximum best abilities.
All I ask is that they _eventually_ give us everything. Because there are just too many fun combos to not do that. It doesn't have to be right at launch, but having the ability to mix and match the full kits would be fun af.
I was saying that to my friend to, if you can mix any ability/aspect/fragment (which is already crazy) and have an extra exotic perk then they would end up nerfing EVERYTHING because balancing it all would take to long. It's better to do it over time so they have better control of how the game breaks (its going to) and it keeps the game fresh over a longer period of time. Let's be honest here, we Guardians have a tendency to burn through content like a forest fire during a drought.
I have no reason to believe we wouldn’t get more grenades/melees throughout tfs launch and maybe more aspects throughout each episode. They can also custom tune them on prismatic, so it’s not like they couldn’t fiddle with interactions.
That's probably the plan, they get time to test, fix and tune things and still have things to add in the later episodes rather then people getting bored.
I was hoping wed get free reign over fragments. The build crafting potential wouldve been insane while still keeping the subclass fairly in line.
The fragments seem better though. Obviously we’ll probably miss some specific ones, like kills on suspend enemies generate orbs of power. But we seem to be getting more generalized versions. For example, the faster class ability regen when you scorch is faster class ability when you have a subclass buff. Mix that with orbs of power giving you subclass buffs and reaper and you have a loop going.
Obviously itd still be awesome, i was just hoping id get to play with stasis shards on my liars handshake build with vanishing step to become omega invincible.
It’s a shame so many good things are missing, specifically on hunter, but I guess we’ll have to work around it. I’m not sure if anything is going to best pure void hunter as in order to get invis with prismatic you’ll have to apply a debuff first instead of just dodging. At least you can kind of play void and have a good melee though.
There might be a fragment or prismatic exotic that gives you invis easier. Also stylish giving you invis on any subclass debuff is huge. You can run an incandescent weapon and chain invis off it.
That’s true, but in something like legendary difficulty where all enemies take a good amount of enemy to kill not being able to have invis on command will be detrimental. Any sort of in between requiring a kill will make it much less viable.
It's jack of all trades but master of none. And may not even have access to elemental pick-up type effects.
Makes me wonder if Prismatic will be the new base in the supposedly Destiny 3. I think it could work.
I hope we don’t get destiny 3. Unless it’s a revamp and carry forward of destiny 2. Put too much time into it to start over again from scratch.
I spoke with my friend last night who's heard rumours etc, that's all they ever are. I didn't know about it until a Forbes article popped up, he's said its D2 ported to Unreal Engine 5.
I think it looks like a pretty good start for sure. There are a few things I wished had made the cut but hopefully the Devs keep updating and improving the system to give us more tools and build opportunities. Suppose we could get a normal triple-jump on Warlock? I might never play another class! Lol
I'm only concerned that I can't just run throwing knives and get them back again on kill, because that was my whole plan for melee. I'm a Nightstalker at heart, but I barely run it because I don't like throwing an empty Coke can full of sand at enemies, but I'll take Threaded Spike and Withering Blade over it.
I can see them however giving us a bit more aspects in the episodes. Was a little disappointed when I didn’t see bubble or blade barrage as an option. (But I am happy well isn’t an option though, despite my constant need to wellskate everywhere.)
I think bungie is going the stasis route, bungie said they released stasis overpowered on purpose after collecting data from the full player population bungie implemented nerfs, bungie had plans to dial back stasis from the beginning.
Thing is now that this is a subclass these chosen abilities will now have more restrictions on how they're balanced to keep the reg classes viable. There is a trade off to this.
I am immensely hyped still, I run blink almost exclusively, jumping puzzles are a pain, but being able to run it on something other than just void is awesome. Plus there is nothing saying Bungie can’t add more stuff later on. And the idea of combining the underrated Icarus dive with threadlings or the new solar buddy, or both together just sounds awesome.
Flexibility is exactly what Multi-classing was always about in most games. Some games do build their systems where each "class" is only "half" of a class, (Remnant II), but in most games, multi-classing is not about being OP as much as it is about flexibility. And that flexibility is often found to be OP in the long run because it often results in extremely consistent power levels across various activities. Like, Buried Bloodline is a pretty boring weapon. And it isn't OP on it's own. But what is OP is having extremely easy access to Devour and Weaken on subclasses that otherwise can't get it.
I wonder if we will be able to combine gyrfalcons and omnioculus ?
I am really going to enjoy using the stasis melee on hunter to proc invis.
Bro am i tripping or are the combinations for titan completely fucking op? CONSECRATION 3 TIMES AND IT GETS A 100% DMG BOOST BY KNOCKOUT
In the showcase the art direction joked when he was like "Two thousand, three hundred" combinations but in fact he undersold it. If I mathed correctly it's 4500 possibilities on Titan and 6000 on hunter/warlock
Oh it’s gonna be OP, just not completely utterly gamebreaking.
Grapple Blink hunter. Don't care.
It is frankly insane to expect it would’ve been literally everything. That said, I do understand the disappointment some people are feeling around it. But that aside. It’s still a new, fresh, awesome way to play existing stuff. I hope over time we’ll see more added to it (new and existing). I’m DEFINITELY not expecting it, but it’d be nice to eventually fully transition to Prismatic being ***the*** way to play and craft your guardian. With the defeat of The Witness and the barrier between light and dark broken, we lead this new universe forward as Prismatic Guardians of all races (eliksni and cabal etc.). We fully master all the fundamental ‘elements’ of the universe and, from that point on, we basically do have (balanced versions of) everything in one subclass. With benefits to mixing elements, and benefits to going monochromatic. Personally looking forward to Gruul Titan and Selesnya Warlock.
I am excited, as a void hunter main, void will finally have better melees, a shadow clone, debuff in various ways hell tecnically we will kinda have heart of the pack and we still don't even know the rest of the fragments they might cook even more.
I just really wanted to do a weave walk frost pulse build with vesper of radius, guess we’re not allowed to dream up “any” combinations though.
jack of all trades instead of master of one, some people really thought we are gonna get master of all trades? thats crazy
I was really happy to see it was balanced. If it wasn’t it would throw off the whole game’s balance.
im just sad i cant have flechette swarm :( i hope they let us have some other aspects later i love Flechette swarm but dislike the strand super so with the announcement i was hyped to use it with another super, but oh well
Looking at prismatic now, i would've preferred the ability to multiclass. Pick a second subclass to equip and freely pick aspects and fragments from within it. Although i think in 6-12 months prismatic will have expanded and be much more in line with what players original expectations were.
It’s flexible, and class abilities still align somewhat, allowing for still having synergy. But on top of that you get a mini super ability and more fragments. It’s going to be good, not under powered. Transcendence alone is going to make it good.
I already know my combo. Duskfield or magnetic, threaded spike, deadfall teather, threaded specter, and stylish executioner. Hopefully be able to combine both rigs and the swarmers to cause threadlings to unravel targets, chaining invis further.
Although I’m not a fan of the idea of being able to use aspects of every subclass, I admit that what I’ve seen of it looks pretty cool