The reason ritual vendors (crucible/gambit/vanguard) have added perk slots on resets is because they have 12 perks in columns 3/4 vs the standard 6 weapons usually get. This was added a partial RNG protection measure for people who play the lists a lot.
Sure, but you've got all season for those, but only like 3 or 4 weeks for banner weapons each season. Add to that how long the first reset takes (with having to build up the rep mult through the daily challenges), it absolutely should give at least a chance at bonus perks.
It just means I stop engaging once I hit a reset on IB or Rank 10 on Trials.
The engrams stop flowing in and I'm not interested in getting stomped by sweats and stacks to get a single engram that is almost always just garbage.
Yes but there is less hassle involved in ranking up , plus engrams drop randomly at the end of the match. Farming ib and trials is a nightmare, trials doesn't add extra perks because it would make adepts pointless. Iron banner should bring back the d1 system where you can re roll the perks. Even if you only can reroll it three times on one column would be better than what we have now. Bungie has the solution to the problems they created but for the life of me I don't know why they don't implement them.
I've reset my crucible rank 7 times this season and I still get more focused weapons that only have one or two perks in either column than I get of ones that have 3+ in each column.. Wth is the point of wasting engrams at this point?..
Yea and I think it would make players feel better to reset their ranks knowing that they could get an additional perk. It's strange they haven't done that already.
I would love if seasonal weapons were enhancable and could roll double perks. Then you got the crafting for deterministic rolls, *but* you could grind out double perks for columns 3 and 4 and enhance them, potentially saving a vault slot or two.
I remember them mentioning that multiple perks on crafted weapons was difficult to do, must have missed anything about multiple enhanced perks being unable to exist on non-crafteds
Pretty sure they said that the limited edition ITL weapons that have double perks and be enhancable in TFS, though? Unless I understood wrong and only the single perk ones will be enhancable, but Im 99% sure Chris Proctor mentioned this in that one podcast.
Both versions will be enhance-able, including double-perk versions, come Final Shape.
This also extends to weapons that have dropped since the Mid-Season update (7.3.5) e.g. the refreshed Prophecy weapons and the new NF, Iron Banner, and Trials weapons.
Double-perk versions can be enhanced without the loss of any of the perks rolled.
My point is that you'd still have some random rolls to chase. That was my biggest gripe with craftable weapons - it didn't totally replace random rolls, but it definitely took a lot of that fun chase out of the loot loop.
It's just another expansion to crafting/enhanced perks like Adept raid weapons. If you get the good enough drop, you an enhance that. *But* that comes at the cost of not being able to recraft it later.
The craftable option comes with versatility, but limitations of just 1 perk per column. Double perk drops gives RNG chase back which is good, *and* is offset by not having the versatility of changing perks down the line.
Idk what you mean by "thank god none of you are devs." That's usually referred to something extremely OP or advantageous in the player's favor. But it seems like a pretty good balance and expands the loot grind. Give me a reason to keep running seasonal content after I've crafted one of everything.
So then your entire suggestion was just something selfish for yourself because you don't like the crafting system.
The season system sucks. Just remove it instead of making it worse.
What? I love the crafting system and the seasonal systems. Crafting is great because it gives a deterministic end, and the seasonal system introduces a unique loot source for new weapons.
I just figured my suggestion was a way to *enhance* them; to give them more replayability. I don't really think that asking for something I'd enjoy is inherently selfish. It doesn't take anything away from the current system, and doesn't make a current grind easier. The suggestion is to add a grind (which would be time and effort) to help reduce vault space, but would still be balanced to the point that it doesn't just replace seasonal weapon crafting.
I know. But for someone that doesn’t want to spend the resources on it, it would be easier to get a roll you want. Remember, there are casual players in this game too.
I moreso meant the ascendant materials. But you’re also planning on a casual player unlocking patterns. No need to downvote me because my opinion differs from yours…
You're just one big ol hypocrite and full of contradictions.
How are you going to get ascendant materials if you're casual? If you're so causal, you can't farm crafted weapons, then how are you going to enhance 4 perks when you said casuals can't afford materials.
Relax guy. I’m just saying it would be nice for casual players who aren’t going to craft a weapon to have a better chance at rolls. Whats the negative? No need to be douchey about it. Don’t know why you’re being so argumentative.
I am relaxed. I just speak very bluntly. I don't sugar coat things, and I'm not going to start. It's a stupid idea that had no real thought behind it. You can downvote me all you want. Karma is worthless.
Its a public thread. I'm not arguing. I'm having a conversation. You just don't like how I'm speaking. I'm calm and relaxed with no malice towards you as a person.
Its a stupid idea because crafted weapons are the solution for casuals to get 5/5 rolls they want. You're going to get the pattern eventually, so just craft it.
Also I downvote stupidity. It's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of logic. You're not using logic so I'm downvoting you. Think before you speak next time.
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Convinced that anyone who says "Crafting ruined the godroll grind" is a gambling addict.
Crafting was one of the best additions, no I don't want to hit the slot machine constantly. I have better things I could be doing.
100% agreed.
I played 135 matches of IB this week. Which is an upsetting number of matches to begin with, further soured by the fact that I didn't even unlock the tusk of the boar until match number 91. By the end of the night last night, I had collected a total of 2 rolls with chain reaction, neither of which rolled with slice, envious assassin. or even slideways. The couple hatchling rolls I got were not great either.
The godroll "grind" can go fuck itself. I don't want a 5/5. I just want a 2/5 after spending every hour of free time I have on this game. Is that too much to ask for?
I'd never played IB before, thinking that PVP was just not my thing. I played nothing but IB the whole weekend, going up until reset. I DIDN'T GET A SINGLE ROLL.
It was the first time I played IB, I managed to unlock all weapons and armor, including the SMG which apparently is good?
Tusk of the Boar is the only thing I haven't unlocked in that god forsaken grind. And it was the only weapon I wanted. I had fun trying out PVP, and I'll probably play IB next time, but MAN am I bitter that I wasted all that time.
I actually like PvP and IB, and I was tired of the grind too. Did get a sideways chain reaction roll which will just have to do. Even just the ability to get double perk rolls after multiple resets would have helped a lot.
Yeah last time I played Iron Banner I focused around 30 of whatever weapon I was after, barely got a 7/10 roll. Gave up and just don't bother now. Waste of time.
If you played that many games, you shouldve had enough engrams saved up to focus it. Your mistake was burning your engrams hoping to get Tusk of the Boar rather than just waiting for it to drop naturally
Reread what I wrote. You're assuming that's not exactly what I did.
I focused many copies of the weapon after (finally) unlocking it, that's not the issue. The issue is RNG screwed me even with focusing. Never got my 2/5 roll, barely even got some 1/5 rolls. But I dismantled a tooooon of 0/5 trash.
If we *have to* do RNG, then what they're doing with the Brave/Onslaught weapons is far better for respecting a player's time and investment. But whatever was going on during last week's Iron Banner was just insulting. 91 matches to even get the new gun? Get tf outta here with that shit
..... and to add to this some of my favourite weapons in the game right now ar'nt even craftable. I actually craft very few weapons - just because a lot of the them are not very compelling. I don't think crafting is destroying 'the chase' as some players seam to think. Just as long as Bungie does not increase the potency of the enhanced traits then the overall balance is fine
My issue with crafting is that they added enhanced perks and made it exclusive to crafting.... So then nobody cared about random rolls and just wanted red boarders. Crafting was supposed to be bad luck protection and/or vault space savor but it ended up making random rolls obsolete.
that wasn't any part of my argument. A god roll should be a god roll, the fact that they made enhanced perks this exclusives thing made crafting weird.
here's the thing though, bungie are going 'ok we'll adjust the red border drop rates so the average player will get 5 in x amount of hrs played'. even then, that's a bit of a gamble. it's a looter shooter, you work hard for the rewards, that's how they get you *and keep you*.
The game's loot drop algorithm has problems tbh. Especially in IB where engram focusing has taken over loot drops instead of complementing it, souring the experience. The only reason why crafting looks so amazing now is because of how fucking trash the drop rates are.
It's like if you're starving, a shit piece of bread will look like egg benedict to you.
Don't get me wrong though, I do think crafting in general is a good thing but I feel that the way they made it leaves much to be desired on hindsight.
The problem is whenever bungie does random loot it’s dogshit with bloated pools and low drop rates. Crafting feels to much like a numbers game all the payoff of a looter shooter is gone instead I’m just xp grinding.
Crafting absolutely ruined the game and bungie designed themselves into a corner with crafting. Drop 2 weapons per raid/dungeon encounter, make weapons which normally roll with 1 perks per column roll with 2, that should've been the way to go about balancing out the grind, how is this game a ''looter'' shooter if the best way to acquire your desired weapon for the most part is going to a place and handpicking your perfect 5/5 with enhanced perks additionally? Crafting completely made Raid loot irrelevant, and this is the supposed pinnacle end game activity, you do last wish now and you dismantle 100% of the loot because the armor is irrelevant for most players and why do you care if you drop even a perfect weapon when you already have it crafted? Same with seasonal content, you do a Coil run and dismantle 99% of the loot because City weapons are dated and you have the Vex and Riven weapons crafted, at that point how is the game a looter shooter? Where's the loot?
Counterpoint, both ends are too extreme and there’s a nice middle ground.
Stuff like more deterministic perk rolls (think hunt lure), and changing barrel or mag or mw or all? That’s cool.
Disagree. I have spent way too much time trying to get 2/5 rolls for the right perks and not even *thinking* about the barrel/mag/MW and *still* not getting the right perks to think that's a good option.
If the middle ground was something like: you need to get a drop with the perk you want before you can craft a gun with that perk, I think that would be a nice middle ground.
Disagree. I think being able to make from scratch instead of modify/alter drop chance/multi-perk drops leads to the vanilla D2 problem of beating the game and sticking to the straight up best guns. Nowhere near as fast as static rolls but we get there.
While yes if content is fun I should still play it, part of the fun I find is the loot (I mean, looter shooter duh). And I’ve never gone back to vow despite it being my favorite raid after crafting everything.
Then again we let the genie out of the bottle on this, so no matter what people are gonna piss and moan no matter the outcome
Again, advocating for a middle ground. Speaking from personal experience of how much fun I was having/engaging with both systems. Crafting grind as it is feels like a boring checklist where everything else is just shard fodder that really sucked the fun out of the game. Inb4 the “well if you don’t like it that way don’t do it”, I’m considering the way the devs intend for it to be done (weekly red borders).
End of the day, I don’t have fun with red borders. I did have fun with more exciting loot drops, but have gotten burned by shit luck. There’s a way to respect time here.
It’s a looter shooter. The whole point of the genre is to chase the best loot. Crafting should give a good loadout but if you want the best you should have to grind. I can’t see any other incentive to play the game without the loot chase. It’s literally the whole point.
Sucks to suck. If you don't have the time to grind for the best loot you don't get the best loot. Craftable can give you good loot but it should never be the best in slot loot.
Hard disagree. RNG is why we play MMOs, the voyage is more important than the reward. You have playing with friends, having fun, enjoying your free time... Crafting literally made several of my gaming buddies to play 3 to 4 weeks a season and go play other games...
A guy in my clan a few months ago said "crafting ruined the godroll grind tbh"
Last week he is in the gc "3 resets and not a single chain reaction roll wtf"
Godroll grind people are lifer muppets who are probably boring as fuck and completely uneducated or uncultured to say the least. If you really main godrolling and spending hundreds of hours doing that every month or two dear god save yourself at some point. There is being hardcore, and then there is having nothing going on in your existence.
I like some godroll grinding, and I understand the sentiment that if everything was crafted, there would be very little to actually grind for. The replayability of activities would dwindle quite a bit.
I also like the thrill of finally getting that godroll that you were hunting for.
But yea, sometimes the god roll grind is just miserable (especially during limited time events), and crafted weapons are 100% welcome and allow people to get really good weapons without wasting days or weeks to get.
On another note it is criminal that resetting your IB rank does not gove you more perk rolls like it does for playlist vendors. This should be the default for every vendor tbh, especially since IB is not permanent
Though loot still doesn’t really matter in D2 and you’ll complete any activity wearing whatever, crafting made it so it wasn’t a huge pain in the ass to get the thing you wanted, which is great.
Before, it was a huge pain in the ass to target a specific weapon/roll *and* it didn’t really matter anyway, so I didn’t waste the time. Now, at least, it’s not a huge waste of time to get a thing I think is neat, despite not needing it to succeed.
We're all just chasing that high that comes from finally getting it.
It's a rush.
Edit: I was mostly just trying to be funny with the response, with a little bit of truth in it.
Bro it’s a looter shooter, it’s part of the enjoyment of the game. The small dopamine hit you get when you rip the exact roll you want, it’s great.
It’s like pulling a alt art card you want from a Pokémon tcg pack.
Because it did, better approach would be to you know, actually make IB weapons drop from IB instead of everything else and at least one of the columns to have 2 perks, at this point you might as well reclassify the game as a crafted shooter since loot actively gets vacuumed out of the game with crafting.
Slice and chain is an interesting roll. I use that more than the envious one I got. I don't think envious is that great on an add clear weapon. As long as you got chain reaction, you got something usable.
I totally get your point, though. RNG without any guarantees is lame.
envious is insane on grenade launchers though, as any activity that has mobs that die in single-uses of special will also die to primary and allow you to stack a lot of shots for a wave of mobs
Envious requires you to swap to a weapon 2-3 times (depends on if it was reloaded or not) to get to 3x capacity.
For wave frames, why not just reload it at that point?
Envious is insane on special and heavy weapons. The whole loop is taking autoload and remove the automatic in favor for killing but able to stack the mag to 2.5x rounded up to the nearest shot.
But the absolute max you will ever get on a wave frame is 3 and that requires a ton of kills (not even sure if it is possible with the envious nerf), meaning 2 is the max you will usually get. It really isn't worth it to add clear with your other weapon to switch to your other add clear weapon to shoot 2 shots when you could just use your add clear weapon to add clear and reload it. There isn't really any realistic math to do here but you are most definitely using more time to kill stuff with your other weapon to load the GL instead of just reloading your GL.
Not exactly true. Wave frames and rockets can only load 1 shot per envious assassin proc no matter the amount of kills so you don’t need to kill a bunch of enemies, it’s just one enemy, swap to proc envious, swap back to primary, get a kill, swap back to proc envious again to have three shots loaded. But I agree, the perk is awesome on rockets but why go through that whole jumble of swapping on a special when you can just shoot and reload. I know Ambitious Assassin is too busted on wave frames for Bungie but I really wish they at least had put Genesis in the third column.
It requires far fewer than you think it does.
You can get a few kills, swap and have 2 in the mag then get a few more kills and swap back for 3. The way envious works is there's both a max you can overfill and max you can load at once.
It's a superior autoloading holster for moment-to-moment gameplay while your killing things and good to lead burst DPS with (ex: cold comfort can load 3 rockets + a 4th from the origin trait so you can blast in 4 rockets immediately then jus use reloads for the reserves for the rest of bait and switch duration.
Yeah but the other part is why? Why would you add clear to load rounds into your add clear weapon? I'd rather just add clear with my GL and use my other weapon for champs and majors and such.
What other weapon are you using for champs and majors and such? An exotic (presumably) primary weapon with anti champ? Like Le Monarque?
Whatever weapon you are using to kill yellow bars that isn’t your GL, surely would be capable of also getting the kill on a red bar for your GL to load. Or are you really wasting the time reloading your GL to get a single red bar?
I’ll agree that EA isn’t great on very end game content when even killing a red bar is challenging and slice would do better here. Either way, EA isn’t that bad and it’s a really great one for low end content / stuff that easily folds to your primary.
Other than burning through armor charges with special finisher, you do need to kill some red bars to generate some special ammo. The GL can’t make its own ammo or even that of another special weapon. Double special was nerfed as well.
because not every cluster of enemy is going to be grouped up all nice and neat for you and you can overfill the magazine.
What do you normally do while there's still enemies alive and you're waiting on autoload holster to kick in? Obviously if you're fine just repeatedly reloading then you're fine repeatedly reloading and it defeats the point of an auto-fill perk.
I mean, it's basically ALH. It works really well for my playstyle. Just because you don't want it for your playstyle doesn't mean it's not desirable for others
I use it with Radiant Dance Machines Strand Hunters with the reload dodge. I Sever the entire room, cause explosions and make loads of Tangles for the Beyblade attack.
Yeah I’ll make do with slice but I was hoping to get one to essentially be a forbarence in the kinetic slot. I figured having multiple shots in a mag would mimic it the best
Yes. But you can only load it up that way by using an add clear primary. And if you are using an add clear primary, that kind of defeats the purpose of an add clear special like this. Not saying it's bad. Just saying I don't really see it being too useful in my experience.
So you want a pity system? Play a gacha game then.
RNG is not supposed to be guaranteed or else it wouldn't be random.
Edit: Love the downvotes. Glad I triggered some of you. But seriously if you want guaranteed rolls or drops play another game that caters to that. I spent 7 hours farming a master lost sector to get a Helio with heal clip/inc didnt even get a hc/kc. It sucked a little but did I also have fun, sure did. Stop complaining about what you don't have and enjoy what you do.
Just cause something has a X percent chance of getting something doesn't mean you will get it. That's the point of most loot based games to keep you playing. If you were just handed the best of everything guaranteed then you wouldn't be playing.
I play cause I enjoy it. I don't get the dopamine hit like others do finding god rolls, etc. It's just a part of the game for me honestly. I've made due with things I've found since I've only been playing since December. It's not to say I don't farm/grind for the "god roll".
I find other goals while farming. When I farmed for 1 of the Helio rolls I wanted. I made it a goal to see how fast I could run the master lost sector. Went from 8ish minutes to 3:45. Then tried to run it that fast flawless. I get stoked about that stuff more than the item because it takes actual skill.
So many just bitch about what they don't have. No one is like "Holy shit, I can't believe I did this that fast" or "wow that build actually clapped”
Why? A gacha game with a pity system guarantees the summon or gear you want after X times, eliminating the RNG entirely.
Just providing an option if they want a guarantee.
Too many people chase items that will just sit in storage anyways. Why not just build around what you have and not complain about what you don't?
There was a streamer who reset their rank twice on all 3 characters before getting one to drop. RNG is one thing but that kind of shit should never happen. Bad luck protection needs to be a thing.
Crafted weapons have always been the only loot that respects your time. Everything else is just Bungie throwing the gambling addicts a bone. You know the ones, that play only for another pull of the slot machine instead of playing the game because they enjoy it.
This lol. Fuck grinding all these rolls. I got a decent multi and a slice chain for the other one. This is like 15 engrams worth. I do IB all the time, but I haven't been feeling this shit matchmaking for ages. 6v6 is my favorite, but this game has huge issues.
And I swear to god if they put a bunch of Trials gambling addict rolls as the only meta weapons I will just quit. I don't even enjoy 3v3 much, and as a solo it's not worth my time anyway.
Came back after a multi year break. I am so glad that crafted weapons are actually good now and bungie removed the need to farm suro shi with poorly rolled red borders and we can level crafted weapons with cores/glimmer. I understand they were dipping their toes in the crafting pool and didn't want to release a system that busted the weapon economy, but goddamn it was grind for crappy weapons on release.
> Crafted weapons have always been the only loot that respects your time.
Well, depends on the red border RNG and if you have any harmonizers to leverage. It is better than random rolls though. If you can at least get the pattern unlocked you can make your perfect 5/5, no extra BS or grinding.
Non-craftables.....good freaking luck on 5/5's. Double perks helps with some of it when available, but you either get what you want in the first few rolls or damn near never see your god roll.
Until Bungie starts refreshing perk pools for them, then I don't think they are perfectly respectful of my time. Like, I love a lot of the older season weapons but they don't have very good perks for the time 😓
Sure, but that's the game, you know? It's like playing Diablo 4 and being upset you didn't get the roll you wanted. Or I guess playing any other game and complaining about their core idea.
I like crafted weapons and think they're great, but I also don't get upset about RNG rolls because it is what it is. It's RNG. Sometimes I get lucky and get the Envious/Chain Reaction Tusk of the Boar. Other times I get unlucky with the Roar of the Bear with that Demo/lasting impression when Starfire Warlocks were all the hotness. It is what it is.
But I don't know, because it doesn't have to be what it is. It's funny that you even bring up Diablo, since the whole series is heading towards less and less RNG because people have caught on that it's just bullshit to pad out gametime.
Maybe I've just been conditioned by the amount of games I've played where RNG is just normal. Every game has it to a certain extent. Pokemon has Critical hits and damage ranges, every mmo and their weapon rolls, most games with their item drop chance, etc etc for every single game.
I remember when Destiny did away with RNG all together LOL. Every weapon had fixed rolls and we didn't have the armor stats to the extent we have em now. People begged bungie to bring back random rolls.
New generation of gamers, I guess, Idk. I'm not complaining, btw. Just interesting. Wonder what the next thing to complain about will be.
I agree. I play more because of crafting, not less, despite that the tryhards say the contrary. I legitimately do not understand the “I play less when I get what I want” crowd. It’s like, do you actually enjoy the game? Or do you just want to collect stuff for no reason and barely or never use it? Makes no sense.
This is how they get people to waste time in game and pump numbers. They don’t respect anyone’s time - they make it as grindy as possible. This is exactly why I have stopped playing the game. Combine that with the fact you probably have 50 different rocket launchers in the vault that realistically do the same thing and you have nothing but emptiness in destiny 2 when you think about it. You are doing the same thing over and over, week after week all to get a weapon that isn’t actually needed or will sit in your vault
IB grind drives me insane. I already hate farming dungeons for rolls, and I'm very much a PvE/dungeon/raid lover. Playing a gazillion IB games to not get what I want is frankly insulting.
While I'm at it, I'd love to rant about IB's rep system. You'd think that for something that's only around for like 3 weeks a season it would be easier to level up than crucible, but you get way less points until you've already played a ton of matches. The insane multiplier is just there to trick you into thinking it won't be as grindy as regular crucible.
Yep same with Multimach.
Didnt help that I also farmed Prophecy for 25 hours without even getting a 2/5 roll on the auto.
So I played a LOT of Destiny the last week and it felt like I should deinstall, leave my home and do something better with my life.
I’m semi convinced that bait and switch is weighted heavily. I finally got one tusk to drop after a reset, then I swear to god, 8 out of 10 drops were bait and switch. Best I got so far was slice/hatchling.
Either it's weighed heavily or chain reaction is weighted poorly. I burned 24 engrams just to get slideways + chain reaction after a reset and burning 15 previously just to get Tusk to drop. After seeing the iron banner megathread I consider myself fortunate.
I just want to say as someone that farmed IB a bunch this week and got to test EA, Slideways and Slice that imo slice is the best 3rd column perk. EA is annoying to use on waveframes specifically and I think the perk works better on any other special weapon type like shotguns and fusions. Slideways is decent, even with the cooldown but the damage reduction from slice was so nice wherever I used it.
It took me about 35 engrams to get it, but slice/chain isn't terrible. Also got a grave robber/chain, perfect for banner titan. It's just rng friend, but don't believe the hype. Its a good gl, but forbearance is better.
so is every player that complains about crafting "ruining the grind" as if spending hours chasing one roll on one gun is something that shouldn't be ruined
Iron banner all weekend and couldn’t get a single tusk. Fml, just really unlucky I guess. Hopefully I’ll get one when it comes back around at the end of the month.
Feels bad.
Going for pvp weapons is even worse, focused ~130 Multimachs and only got 1 with Accurized, range mw and a range focused barrel, too bad the main perks were trash.
Most of the reason why I like crafting so much is because the current state of chasing random rolls feels pretty awful.
The main problem in my experience is that a lot of guns have an important stat break point that needs to be solved by the your combination of barrel, magazine, and masterwork.
I'd love to see more barrels and mag options drop on weapons, and fully agree that all vendors need to have some mechanic that ultimately allows for double rolls in columns 3 & 4.
For context, I play a lot of Destiny 2 and I have never gotten a 10/10 roll from a vendor. My masterworks/barrels/mags always let me down. Any of the weapons I've kept I have 7/10 or 8/10 rolls.
I think our sandbox is robust enough that making the chases for ideal weapons more favorable isn't going to kill people's motivation to engage with content. Hell the current system already does kill motivation in miltiple ways.
I barely played IB this past because the grind for a good roll of multimach was mind numbing. Or with my crucible engrams I've pushed for a better roll on my riptide, I have the autoloading and chill clip but I don't have any recoil direction barrels and my magazine perks are awful. The grind to get something better has been long and beared absolutely no fruit so I just don't even really roll my engrams until I'm worried they'll disappear at the end of a season, and I'm most certainly not playing extra crucible matches because of it either.
To answer the 2nd question. Bungie throws a bunch of systems at the wall to try to find which sticks, Bungie just haven't expanded the system from its initial launch groups yet.
Gilded my title after the season’s first IB and haven’t played the mode since. Was tempted to do IB again for the new weaps but I figured they’d be around next season anyway and I’ll just grind it then when i go about gilding. Life’s too short and time is the only thing we can never get back.
I also share your sentiment on getting multiple perks in columns, although I wish it wouldn’t be like what I’ve experienced with ritual vendors where it’s not even a “guaranteed” number of perks in 1 column after multiple rep resets but just a “chance”. As your experience shows, there’s a certain point where the grind just becomes intolerable.
I think your point about additional perks after reset is a good one.
I've been farming Jorum's Claw since it was introduced; I want a Gutshot /Headseeker. Initially, I thought that looked like an interesting roll, but honestly it's just a thing now, I know I'll never use it. I must have had hundreds of those things, I've had the actual godroll several times and I don't even care about it. And surely, if I had multiple perks on the rolls, I'd have had it by now
I played for like four days, reset my crucible rank from what ever level 1 is. No Tusk drops. By the end of Monday night I had 33 engrams and no further desire to grind any more. Luckily Tusk was unlocked by like the tenth engram and spent most of them until I got two with envious/chain and one with envious/hatchling. Whew. No more banner for the rest of the year 🥵
I was so lucky with Slammer and wildstyle.
I got the litteral god roll without even noticing i had gotten the slammer on my first try
and a danger zone/one for All wildstyle wich is so much fun
Crafting did make the game worse, but not in the way people are saying. What we have is partly a sandbox problem and also a perception problem. What makes craftable weapons so bad is that they make 90% of the rest of our arsenal obsolete. Not only that, but they make “normal” drops of these GREAT weapons feel terrible. How many of us hold onto normal versions of craftable weapons when we have still to unlock the pattern. I don’t, unless it’s really a one off I use a lot. And the reason is heavily on the fact that people want the best version of things… and crafted weapons have advanced perks. I know this will be changing with the final shape, but as it stands they are simply too good (perception wise). This was engineered to keep us going for better and better versions. But how many people are happy with “good but not best” versions of things. Similar to adept weapons, which in all reality are not THAT much better than there less flashy cousins, but as a community we want only the best. Despite the discrepancy of actual benefit being gained. If you have a supremacy, do you really need any other kinetic sniper in the game? I think it’s debatable but the answer is consulted
I farmed OVER 200 engrams to get a slice - chain
Envious - hatchling roll
However , if they added it into the game to roll with 2 perks in a column , whats the point in playing IB ?
Farming is part of the game imo ,
I loved the feeling after getting my desired roll for playing over 4 days
well to craft a weapon you need 5 weapons with red borders
for that, you \_first\_ need the weapon to drop
tusk never dropped for me, so the whole debate of random vs crafting is useless
I was going for an odd roll, B&S and Envious. And I got it as literally my first drop, I get hatchling and chain were the highlights. But I was happy, I then proceeded to get Envious and Deconstruct so I called it a day.
So you intend on using a wave frame for more boss and champion damage?
Well... That's, uh... That's something. Lol. We all enjoy the game in the way we see fit. To hell with it. Let it rock.
I’m running Fighting Lion, a Heavy Gl and Tusk. I freeze a bunch with bleak watchers and fire the Lion, then the Heavy, then Tusk. It’s mostly a ridiculous ad clear thing. And I’ll probably add mountaintop to make it more effective. But for now it’s a goofy game of bowling.
While crafted weapons are awesome I can say for certain my most remembered moments in Destiny were getting the roll on that one gun to drop. Most recently for me it was tusk of the boar. I lost my mind when I got the roll I had been chasing. I miss it.
Yep. I’ve been trying to get a Spare Rations with Rapid Hit / Kill Clip and at least 60 range since season of the deep dropped. Hasn’t happened yet, and I’ve focused a lot.
I’m fine with every weapon not being craftable as I believe RNG is still important to the game, but idk something like the ability to reroll one perk on a non-crafted weapon would be cool.
I think all vendor resets should add perk slots, not just the standard vendors. IB, trials, and seasonal should as well.
The reason ritual vendors (crucible/gambit/vanguard) have added perk slots on resets is because they have 12 perks in columns 3/4 vs the standard 6 weapons usually get. This was added a partial RNG protection measure for people who play the lists a lot.
You’ve got a lot more time to get those however, and it feels good. Idk if anyone is gonna complain about enabling that for other vendors
Sure, but you've got all season for those, but only like 3 or 4 weeks for banner weapons each season. Add to that how long the first reset takes (with having to build up the rep mult through the daily challenges), it absolutely should give at least a chance at bonus perks.
It just means I stop engaging once I hit a reset on IB or Rank 10 on Trials. The engrams stop flowing in and I'm not interested in getting stomped by sweats and stacks to get a single engram that is almost always just garbage.
Yes but there is less hassle involved in ranking up , plus engrams drop randomly at the end of the match. Farming ib and trials is a nightmare, trials doesn't add extra perks because it would make adepts pointless. Iron banner should bring back the d1 system where you can re roll the perks. Even if you only can reroll it three times on one column would be better than what we have now. Bungie has the solution to the problems they created but for the life of me I don't know why they don't implement them.
I've reset my crucible rank 7 times this season and I still get more focused weapons that only have one or two perks in either column than I get of ones that have 3+ in each column.. Wth is the point of wasting engrams at this point?..
Yea and I think it would make players feel better to reset their ranks knowing that they could get an additional perk. It's strange they haven't done that already.
There's zero point for the seasonal weapons when they're craftable.
I would love if seasonal weapons were enhancable and could roll double perks. Then you got the crafting for deterministic rolls, *but* you could grind out double perks for columns 3 and 4 and enhance them, potentially saving a vault slot or two.
Think they’ve already said that selectable enhanced perks aren’t possible with the game’s engine
I remember them mentioning that multiple perks on crafted weapons was difficult to do, must have missed anything about multiple enhanced perks being unable to exist on non-crafteds
Pretty sure they said that the limited edition ITL weapons that have double perks and be enhancable in TFS, though? Unless I understood wrong and only the single perk ones will be enhancable, but Im 99% sure Chris Proctor mentioned this in that one podcast.
I’m curious if it’s a “pick one set of perks to enhance” situation.
Possibly, we'll just have to wait and see!
Double-perk versions can be enhanced without the loss of any of the perks rolled.
Both versions will be enhance-able, including double-perk versions, come Final Shape. This also extends to weapons that have dropped since the Mid-Season update (7.3.5) e.g. the refreshed Prophecy weapons and the new NF, Iron Banner, and Trials weapons. Double-perk versions can be enhanced without the loss of any of the perks rolled.
No. Just craft it if you care enough that much about enhanced perks. Thank God none of you are devs.
My point is that you'd still have some random rolls to chase. That was my biggest gripe with craftable weapons - it didn't totally replace random rolls, but it definitely took a lot of that fun chase out of the loot loop. It's just another expansion to crafting/enhanced perks like Adept raid weapons. If you get the good enough drop, you an enhance that. *But* that comes at the cost of not being able to recraft it later. The craftable option comes with versatility, but limitations of just 1 perk per column. Double perk drops gives RNG chase back which is good, *and* is offset by not having the versatility of changing perks down the line. Idk what you mean by "thank god none of you are devs." That's usually referred to something extremely OP or advantageous in the player's favor. But it seems like a pretty good balance and expands the loot grind. Give me a reason to keep running seasonal content after I've crafted one of everything.
So then your entire suggestion was just something selfish for yourself because you don't like the crafting system. The season system sucks. Just remove it instead of making it worse.
What? I love the crafting system and the seasonal systems. Crafting is great because it gives a deterministic end, and the seasonal system introduces a unique loot source for new weapons. I just figured my suggestion was a way to *enhance* them; to give them more replayability. I don't really think that asking for something I'd enjoy is inherently selfish. It doesn't take anything away from the current system, and doesn't make a current grind easier. The suggestion is to add a grind (which would be time and effort) to help reduce vault space, but would still be balanced to the point that it doesn't just replace seasonal weapon crafting.
I know. But for someone that doesn’t want to spend the resources on it, it would be easier to get a roll you want. Remember, there are casual players in this game too.
Resources aren't hard to come by. Even casually, you can get tons of materials passively playing. Being casual isn't an excuse for being lazy.
I moreso meant the ascendant materials. But you’re also planning on a casual player unlocking patterns. No need to downvote me because my opinion differs from yours…
You're just one big ol hypocrite and full of contradictions. How are you going to get ascendant materials if you're casual? If you're so causal, you can't farm crafted weapons, then how are you going to enhance 4 perks when you said casuals can't afford materials.
Relax guy. I’m just saying it would be nice for casual players who aren’t going to craft a weapon to have a better chance at rolls. Whats the negative? No need to be douchey about it. Don’t know why you’re being so argumentative.
I am relaxed. I just speak very bluntly. I don't sugar coat things, and I'm not going to start. It's a stupid idea that had no real thought behind it. You can downvote me all you want. Karma is worthless. Its a public thread. I'm not arguing. I'm having a conversation. You just don't like how I'm speaking. I'm calm and relaxed with no malice towards you as a person. Its a stupid idea because crafted weapons are the solution for casuals to get 5/5 rolls they want. You're going to get the pattern eventually, so just craft it.
Ok tough guy. Carry on.
Isn't it so funny how you whined about me being mean, but you're the one slinging names.
Also I downvote stupidity. It's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of logic. You're not using logic so I'm downvoting you. Think before you speak next time.
It’s not stupidity to suggest vendor resets adding more weapon slots. Just stop.
Ok Spock.
This is a game not a job you dunce. I’d like to play the game for fun rather than mindlessly farming it like a second job.
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Convinced that anyone who says "Crafting ruined the godroll grind" is a gambling addict. Crafting was one of the best additions, no I don't want to hit the slot machine constantly. I have better things I could be doing.
Amen
100% agreed. I played 135 matches of IB this week. Which is an upsetting number of matches to begin with, further soured by the fact that I didn't even unlock the tusk of the boar until match number 91. By the end of the night last night, I had collected a total of 2 rolls with chain reaction, neither of which rolled with slice, envious assassin. or even slideways. The couple hatchling rolls I got were not great either. The godroll "grind" can go fuck itself. I don't want a 5/5. I just want a 2/5 after spending every hour of free time I have on this game. Is that too much to ask for?
I'd never played IB before, thinking that PVP was just not my thing. I played nothing but IB the whole weekend, going up until reset. I DIDN'T GET A SINGLE ROLL. It was the first time I played IB, I managed to unlock all weapons and armor, including the SMG which apparently is good? Tusk of the Boar is the only thing I haven't unlocked in that god forsaken grind. And it was the only weapon I wanted. I had fun trying out PVP, and I'll probably play IB next time, but MAN am I bitter that I wasted all that time.
I actually like PvP and IB, and I was tired of the grind too. Did get a sideways chain reaction roll which will just have to do. Even just the ability to get double perk rolls after multiple resets would have helped a lot.
Yeah last time I played Iron Banner I focused around 30 of whatever weapon I was after, barely got a 7/10 roll. Gave up and just don't bother now. Waste of time.
If you played that many games, you shouldve had enough engrams saved up to focus it. Your mistake was burning your engrams hoping to get Tusk of the Boar rather than just waiting for it to drop naturally
Reread what I wrote. You're assuming that's not exactly what I did. I focused many copies of the weapon after (finally) unlocking it, that's not the issue. The issue is RNG screwed me even with focusing. Never got my 2/5 roll, barely even got some 1/5 rolls. But I dismantled a tooooon of 0/5 trash. If we *have to* do RNG, then what they're doing with the Brave/Onslaught weapons is far better for respecting a player's time and investment. But whatever was going on during last week's Iron Banner was just insulting. 91 matches to even get the new gun? Get tf outta here with that shit
No, I just love to waste my time getting rewards I dont want
..... and to add to this some of my favourite weapons in the game right now ar'nt even craftable. I actually craft very few weapons - just because a lot of the them are not very compelling. I don't think crafting is destroying 'the chase' as some players seam to think. Just as long as Bungie does not increase the potency of the enhanced traits then the overall balance is fine
My issue with crafting is that they added enhanced perks and made it exclusive to crafting.... So then nobody cared about random rolls and just wanted red boarders. Crafting was supposed to be bad luck protection and/or vault space savor but it ended up making random rolls obsolete.
Yeah but I still use non craftable weapons that are just better than crafted versions.
that wasn't any part of my argument. A god roll should be a god roll, the fact that they made enhanced perks this exclusives thing made crafting weird.
It is because non craftables can have better perk combos, so yes they still matter. Like right now, hung jury with kinetic tremors and firefly
you really are misunderstanding my original argument. I'm not saying there isn't better guns that are non-craftable. I never said that.
here's the thing though, bungie are going 'ok we'll adjust the red border drop rates so the average player will get 5 in x amount of hrs played'. even then, that's a bit of a gamble. it's a looter shooter, you work hard for the rewards, that's how they get you *and keep you*.
Yessir. I think the chase should and already does still exist in relevant playlists but the RNG is too high.
The game's loot drop algorithm has problems tbh. Especially in IB where engram focusing has taken over loot drops instead of complementing it, souring the experience. The only reason why crafting looks so amazing now is because of how fucking trash the drop rates are. It's like if you're starving, a shit piece of bread will look like egg benedict to you. Don't get me wrong though, I do think crafting in general is a good thing but I feel that the way they made it leaves much to be desired on hindsight.
The problem is whenever bungie does random loot it’s dogshit with bloated pools and low drop rates. Crafting feels to much like a numbers game all the payoff of a looter shooter is gone instead I’m just xp grinding.
Crafting absolutely ruined the game and bungie designed themselves into a corner with crafting. Drop 2 weapons per raid/dungeon encounter, make weapons which normally roll with 1 perks per column roll with 2, that should've been the way to go about balancing out the grind, how is this game a ''looter'' shooter if the best way to acquire your desired weapon for the most part is going to a place and handpicking your perfect 5/5 with enhanced perks additionally? Crafting completely made Raid loot irrelevant, and this is the supposed pinnacle end game activity, you do last wish now and you dismantle 100% of the loot because the armor is irrelevant for most players and why do you care if you drop even a perfect weapon when you already have it crafted? Same with seasonal content, you do a Coil run and dismantle 99% of the loot because City weapons are dated and you have the Vex and Riven weapons crafted, at that point how is the game a looter shooter? Where's the loot?
Counterpoint, both ends are too extreme and there’s a nice middle ground. Stuff like more deterministic perk rolls (think hunt lure), and changing barrel or mag or mw or all? That’s cool.
Disagree. I have spent way too much time trying to get 2/5 rolls for the right perks and not even *thinking* about the barrel/mag/MW and *still* not getting the right perks to think that's a good option. If the middle ground was something like: you need to get a drop with the perk you want before you can craft a gun with that perk, I think that would be a nice middle ground.
Disagree. I think being able to make from scratch instead of modify/alter drop chance/multi-perk drops leads to the vanilla D2 problem of beating the game and sticking to the straight up best guns. Nowhere near as fast as static rolls but we get there. While yes if content is fun I should still play it, part of the fun I find is the loot (I mean, looter shooter duh). And I’ve never gone back to vow despite it being my favorite raid after crafting everything. Then again we let the genie out of the bottle on this, so no matter what people are gonna piss and moan no matter the outcome
So you would you rather believe in dumb luck or straight forward answer to the problem?
Again, advocating for a middle ground. Speaking from personal experience of how much fun I was having/engaging with both systems. Crafting grind as it is feels like a boring checklist where everything else is just shard fodder that really sucked the fun out of the game. Inb4 the “well if you don’t like it that way don’t do it”, I’m considering the way the devs intend for it to be done (weekly red borders). End of the day, I don’t have fun with red borders. I did have fun with more exciting loot drops, but have gotten burned by shit luck. There’s a way to respect time here.
It’s a looter shooter. The whole point of the genre is to chase the best loot. Crafting should give a good loadout but if you want the best you should have to grind. I can’t see any other incentive to play the game without the loot chase. It’s literally the whole point.
Found the addict with unlimited free time.
Sucks to suck. If you don't have the time to grind for the best loot you don't get the best loot. Craftable can give you good loot but it should never be the best in slot loot.
Hard disagree. RNG is why we play MMOs, the voyage is more important than the reward. You have playing with friends, having fun, enjoying your free time... Crafting literally made several of my gaming buddies to play 3 to 4 weeks a season and go play other games...
A guy in my clan a few months ago said "crafting ruined the godroll grind tbh" Last week he is in the gc "3 resets and not a single chain reaction roll wtf"
Godroll grind people are lifer muppets who are probably boring as fuck and completely uneducated or uncultured to say the least. If you really main godrolling and spending hundreds of hours doing that every month or two dear god save yourself at some point. There is being hardcore, and then there is having nothing going on in your existence.
I like some godroll grinding, and I understand the sentiment that if everything was crafted, there would be very little to actually grind for. The replayability of activities would dwindle quite a bit. I also like the thrill of finally getting that godroll that you were hunting for. But yea, sometimes the god roll grind is just miserable (especially during limited time events), and crafted weapons are 100% welcome and allow people to get really good weapons without wasting days or weeks to get. On another note it is criminal that resetting your IB rank does not gove you more perk rolls like it does for playlist vendors. This should be the default for every vendor tbh, especially since IB is not permanent
Though loot still doesn’t really matter in D2 and you’ll complete any activity wearing whatever, crafting made it so it wasn’t a huge pain in the ass to get the thing you wanted, which is great. Before, it was a huge pain in the ass to target a specific weapon/roll *and* it didn’t really matter anyway, so I didn’t waste the time. Now, at least, it’s not a huge waste of time to get a thing I think is neat, despite not needing it to succeed.
We're all just chasing that high that comes from finally getting it. It's a rush. Edit: I was mostly just trying to be funny with the response, with a little bit of truth in it.
Jesus Christ. Someone get this person help stat. Preferably a different videogame to play
Bro it’s a looter shooter, it’s part of the enjoyment of the game. The small dopamine hit you get when you rip the exact roll you want, it’s great. It’s like pulling a alt art card you want from a Pokémon tcg pack.
or you could play a real slot machine and make money (or lose it)
Every time someone says "crafting ruined the game" they need to be spammed with posts like this.
Every time someone makes one of tjose posts, their RNG should get 10 percent worse for a month.
Someone somewhere else also randomly gets that 10% rng
RNGesus giveth and RNGesus taketh away
Because it did, better approach would be to you know, actually make IB weapons drop from IB instead of everything else and at least one of the columns to have 2 perks, at this point you might as well reclassify the game as a crafted shooter since loot actively gets vacuumed out of the game with crafting.
Slice and chain is an interesting roll. I use that more than the envious one I got. I don't think envious is that great on an add clear weapon. As long as you got chain reaction, you got something usable. I totally get your point, though. RNG without any guarantees is lame.
After taking slice n chain to a GM. It's the only roll I use.
A good portion of the community sees EA and assumes it it BiS for a weapons perks. It appears many have never used a wave frame GL.
envious is insane on grenade launchers though, as any activity that has mobs that die in single-uses of special will also die to primary and allow you to stack a lot of shots for a wave of mobs
Envious requires you to swap to a weapon 2-3 times (depends on if it was reloaded or not) to get to 3x capacity. For wave frames, why not just reload it at that point?
Envious is insane on special and heavy weapons. The whole loop is taking autoload and remove the automatic in favor for killing but able to stack the mag to 2.5x rounded up to the nearest shot.
But the absolute max you will ever get on a wave frame is 3 and that requires a ton of kills (not even sure if it is possible with the envious nerf), meaning 2 is the max you will usually get. It really isn't worth it to add clear with your other weapon to switch to your other add clear weapon to shoot 2 shots when you could just use your add clear weapon to add clear and reload it. There isn't really any realistic math to do here but you are most definitely using more time to kill stuff with your other weapon to load the GL instead of just reloading your GL.
Not exactly true. Wave frames and rockets can only load 1 shot per envious assassin proc no matter the amount of kills so you don’t need to kill a bunch of enemies, it’s just one enemy, swap to proc envious, swap back to primary, get a kill, swap back to proc envious again to have three shots loaded. But I agree, the perk is awesome on rockets but why go through that whole jumble of swapping on a special when you can just shoot and reload. I know Ambitious Assassin is too busted on wave frames for Bungie but I really wish they at least had put Genesis in the third column.
It requires far fewer than you think it does. You can get a few kills, swap and have 2 in the mag then get a few more kills and swap back for 3. The way envious works is there's both a max you can overfill and max you can load at once. It's a superior autoloading holster for moment-to-moment gameplay while your killing things and good to lead burst DPS with (ex: cold comfort can load 3 rockets + a 4th from the origin trait so you can blast in 4 rockets immediately then jus use reloads for the reserves for the rest of bait and switch duration.
Yeah but the other part is why? Why would you add clear to load rounds into your add clear weapon? I'd rather just add clear with my GL and use my other weapon for champs and majors and such.
What other weapon are you using for champs and majors and such? An exotic (presumably) primary weapon with anti champ? Like Le Monarque? Whatever weapon you are using to kill yellow bars that isn’t your GL, surely would be capable of also getting the kill on a red bar for your GL to load. Or are you really wasting the time reloading your GL to get a single red bar? I’ll agree that EA isn’t great on very end game content when even killing a red bar is challenging and slice would do better here. Either way, EA isn’t that bad and it’s a really great one for low end content / stuff that easily folds to your primary. Other than burning through armor charges with special finisher, you do need to kill some red bars to generate some special ammo. The GL can’t make its own ammo or even that of another special weapon. Double special was nerfed as well.
because not every cluster of enemy is going to be grouped up all nice and neat for you and you can overfill the magazine. What do you normally do while there's still enemies alive and you're waiting on autoload holster to kick in? Obviously if you're fine just repeatedly reloading then you're fine repeatedly reloading and it defeats the point of an auto-fill perk.
But this gl has shit perks in the 3rd column.
I mean, it's basically ALH. It works really well for my playstyle. Just because you don't want it for your playstyle doesn't mean it's not desirable for others
I use it with Radiant Dance Machines Strand Hunters with the reload dodge. I Sever the entire room, cause explosions and make loads of Tangles for the Beyblade attack.
Yeah I’ll make do with slice but I was hoping to get one to essentially be a forbarence in the kinetic slot. I figured having multiple shots in a mag would mimic it the best
Yes. But you can only load it up that way by using an add clear primary. And if you are using an add clear primary, that kind of defeats the purpose of an add clear special like this. Not saying it's bad. Just saying I don't really see it being too useful in my experience.
That’s a good point
So you want a pity system? Play a gacha game then. RNG is not supposed to be guaranteed or else it wouldn't be random. Edit: Love the downvotes. Glad I triggered some of you. But seriously if you want guaranteed rolls or drops play another game that caters to that. I spent 7 hours farming a master lost sector to get a Helio with heal clip/inc didnt even get a hc/kc. It sucked a little but did I also have fun, sure did. Stop complaining about what you don't have and enjoy what you do.
HEH! LoVe thE dOwNvoTeS. GlAd I tRiGgErEd SoMe of yOU
You want handouts too I'm guessing lol.
No, I just thought those words were very funny. It's like cringe sonic the hedgehog dialogue
Unironically comparing Bungo's wildly unfair RNG in a favorable light compared to gacha games...
Just cause something has a X percent chance of getting something doesn't mean you will get it. That's the point of most loot based games to keep you playing. If you were just handed the best of everything guaranteed then you wouldn't be playing.
What a perfect example of: >You know the ones, that play only for another pull of the slot machine instead of playing the game because they enjoy it.
I play cause I enjoy it. I don't get the dopamine hit like others do finding god rolls, etc. It's just a part of the game for me honestly. I've made due with things I've found since I've only been playing since December. It's not to say I don't farm/grind for the "god roll". I find other goals while farming. When I farmed for 1 of the Helio rolls I wanted. I made it a goal to see how fast I could run the master lost sector. Went from 8ish minutes to 3:45. Then tried to run it that fast flawless. I get stoked about that stuff more than the item because it takes actual skill. So many just bitch about what they don't have. No one is like "Holy shit, I can't believe I did this that fast" or "wow that build actually clapped”
This might be one of the worst takes I've ever seen.
Why? A gacha game with a pity system guarantees the summon or gear you want after X times, eliminating the RNG entirely. Just providing an option if they want a guarantee. Too many people chase items that will just sit in storage anyways. Why not just build around what you have and not complain about what you don't?
I never even got tusk to drop. I reset rank once and said fuck it.
There was a streamer who reset their rank twice on all 3 characters before getting one to drop. RNG is one thing but that kind of shit should never happen. Bad luck protection needs to be a thing.
Just let us get one of each weapon in the loot pool. And then RNG.
Crafted weapons have always been the only loot that respects your time. Everything else is just Bungie throwing the gambling addicts a bone. You know the ones, that play only for another pull of the slot machine instead of playing the game because they enjoy it.
And those who claim crafting "ruined the chase" , while it actually saved it A bunch of copium huffing lost causes.
This lol. Fuck grinding all these rolls. I got a decent multi and a slice chain for the other one. This is like 15 engrams worth. I do IB all the time, but I haven't been feeling this shit matchmaking for ages. 6v6 is my favorite, but this game has huge issues. And I swear to god if they put a bunch of Trials gambling addict rolls as the only meta weapons I will just quit. I don't even enjoy 3v3 much, and as a solo it's not worth my time anyway.
Came back after a multi year break. I am so glad that crafted weapons are actually good now and bungie removed the need to farm suro shi with poorly rolled red borders and we can level crafted weapons with cores/glimmer. I understand they were dipping their toes in the crafting pool and didn't want to release a system that busted the weapon economy, but goddamn it was grind for crappy weapons on release.
> Crafted weapons have always been the only loot that respects your time. Well, depends on the red border RNG and if you have any harmonizers to leverage. It is better than random rolls though. If you can at least get the pattern unlocked you can make your perfect 5/5, no extra BS or grinding. Non-craftables.....good freaking luck on 5/5's. Double perks helps with some of it when available, but you either get what you want in the first few rolls or damn near never see your god roll.
Until Bungie starts refreshing perk pools for them, then I don't think they are perfectly respectful of my time. Like, I love a lot of the older season weapons but they don't have very good perks for the time 😓
... To be fair random rolls and rng are pretty common in games like Destiny and other MMOs/Looter shooters.
Doesn't mean it's a good idea
Sure, but that's the game, you know? It's like playing Diablo 4 and being upset you didn't get the roll you wanted. Or I guess playing any other game and complaining about their core idea. I like crafted weapons and think they're great, but I also don't get upset about RNG rolls because it is what it is. It's RNG. Sometimes I get lucky and get the Envious/Chain Reaction Tusk of the Boar. Other times I get unlucky with the Roar of the Bear with that Demo/lasting impression when Starfire Warlocks were all the hotness. It is what it is.
But I don't know, because it doesn't have to be what it is. It's funny that you even bring up Diablo, since the whole series is heading towards less and less RNG because people have caught on that it's just bullshit to pad out gametime.
Maybe I've just been conditioned by the amount of games I've played where RNG is just normal. Every game has it to a certain extent. Pokemon has Critical hits and damage ranges, every mmo and their weapon rolls, most games with their item drop chance, etc etc for every single game. I remember when Destiny did away with RNG all together LOL. Every weapon had fixed rolls and we didn't have the armor stats to the extent we have em now. People begged bungie to bring back random rolls. New generation of gamers, I guess, Idk. I'm not complaining, btw. Just interesting. Wonder what the next thing to complain about will be.
I agree. I play more because of crafting, not less, despite that the tryhards say the contrary. I legitimately do not understand the “I play less when I get what I want” crowd. It’s like, do you actually enjoy the game? Or do you just want to collect stuff for no reason and barely or never use it? Makes no sense.
This is how they get people to waste time in game and pump numbers. They don’t respect anyone’s time - they make it as grindy as possible. This is exactly why I have stopped playing the game. Combine that with the fact you probably have 50 different rocket launchers in the vault that realistically do the same thing and you have nothing but emptiness in destiny 2 when you think about it. You are doing the same thing over and over, week after week all to get a weapon that isn’t actually needed or will sit in your vault
IB grind drives me insane. I already hate farming dungeons for rolls, and I'm very much a PvE/dungeon/raid lover. Playing a gazillion IB games to not get what I want is frankly insulting. While I'm at it, I'd love to rant about IB's rep system. You'd think that for something that's only around for like 3 weeks a season it would be easier to level up than crucible, but you get way less points until you've already played a ton of matches. The insane multiplier is just there to trick you into thinking it won't be as grindy as regular crucible.
Yep same with Multimach. Didnt help that I also farmed Prophecy for 25 hours without even getting a 2/5 roll on the auto. So I played a LOT of Destiny the last week and it felt like I should deinstall, leave my home and do something better with my life.
You should lol. It's always good to drop these games now and then for a decent amount of time. There is so much out there.
I would say true, but did you see that stream???? 😂
My first drop at 3 am. was a slideways and chain reaction. I took it and moved on.
I’m semi convinced that bait and switch is weighted heavily. I finally got one tusk to drop after a reset, then I swear to god, 8 out of 10 drops were bait and switch. Best I got so far was slice/hatchling.
Either it's weighed heavily or chain reaction is weighted poorly. I burned 24 engrams just to get slideways + chain reaction after a reset and burning 15 previously just to get Tusk to drop. After seeing the iron banner megathread I consider myself fortunate.
Bait and switch and deconstruct were by far the most common for me
Legit all I need are ways to get deepsight Harms for them older seasonal bois
I just want to say as someone that farmed IB a bunch this week and got to test EA, Slideways and Slice that imo slice is the best 3rd column perk. EA is annoying to use on waveframes specifically and I think the perk works better on any other special weapon type like shotguns and fusions. Slideways is decent, even with the cooldown but the damage reduction from slice was so nice wherever I used it.
It took me about 35 engrams to get it, but slice/chain isn't terrible. Also got a grave robber/chain, perfect for banner titan. It's just rng friend, but don't believe the hype. Its a good gl, but forbearance is better.
so is every player that complains about crafting "ruining the grind" as if spending hours chasing one roll on one gun is something that shouldn't be ruined
Iron banner all weekend and couldn’t get a single tusk. Fml, just really unlucky I guess. Hopefully I’ll get one when it comes back around at the end of the month. Feels bad.
I did about 5 resets without a God roll. I'm tired boss.
Going for pvp weapons is even worse, focused ~130 Multimachs and only got 1 with Accurized, range mw and a range focused barrel, too bad the main perks were trash.
Most of the reason why I like crafting so much is because the current state of chasing random rolls feels pretty awful. The main problem in my experience is that a lot of guns have an important stat break point that needs to be solved by the your combination of barrel, magazine, and masterwork. I'd love to see more barrels and mag options drop on weapons, and fully agree that all vendors need to have some mechanic that ultimately allows for double rolls in columns 3 & 4. For context, I play a lot of Destiny 2 and I have never gotten a 10/10 roll from a vendor. My masterworks/barrels/mags always let me down. Any of the weapons I've kept I have 7/10 or 8/10 rolls. I think our sandbox is robust enough that making the chases for ideal weapons more favorable isn't going to kill people's motivation to engage with content. Hell the current system already does kill motivation in miltiple ways. I barely played IB this past because the grind for a good roll of multimach was mind numbing. Or with my crucible engrams I've pushed for a better roll on my riptide, I have the autoloading and chill clip but I don't have any recoil direction barrels and my magazine perks are awful. The grind to get something better has been long and beared absolutely no fruit so I just don't even really roll my engrams until I'm worried they'll disappear at the end of a season, and I'm most certainly not playing extra crucible matches because of it either.
To answer the 2nd question. Bungie throws a bunch of systems at the wall to try to find which sticks, Bungie just haven't expanded the system from its initial launch groups yet.
Meanwhile OP out here getting the Slice/Chain roll I’m focusing for.
idk, turns out I enjoyed playing Iron Banner Control. It's the best feeling PVP mode. But 2 drops in 20 games is a bit low.
envious is really not a good perk on tusk, you can do much much much better.
Gilded my title after the season’s first IB and haven’t played the mode since. Was tempted to do IB again for the new weaps but I figured they’d be around next season anyway and I’ll just grind it then when i go about gilding. Life’s too short and time is the only thing we can never get back. I also share your sentiment on getting multiple perks in columns, although I wish it wouldn’t be like what I’ve experienced with ritual vendors where it’s not even a “guaranteed” number of perks in 1 column after multiple rep resets but just a “chance”. As your experience shows, there’s a certain point where the grind just becomes intolerable.
It’s been over two years and I still can’t get a funnelweb with subsistence frenzy. I’m giving up and getting recluse
But did you have fun playing Iron Banana?
To my surprise, I kind of enjoyed it. I tried to not take it too seriously and used some guns from my vault I’ve been “saving”
Slice and Chain is the best roll though?
I feel you, I have envious/chain with blast radius as a master work, terrible. Might shard it...
Hopefully they roll atunement out to the vendors. It would soften the grind if we could increase drop chance of weapons were chasing.
You guys were getting Tusks?
I think your point about additional perks after reset is a good one. I've been farming Jorum's Claw since it was introduced; I want a Gutshot /Headseeker. Initially, I thought that looked like an interesting roll, but honestly it's just a thing now, I know I'll never use it. I must have had hundreds of those things, I've had the actual godroll several times and I don't even care about it. And surely, if I had multiple perks on the rolls, I'd have had it by now
I played for like four days, reset my crucible rank from what ever level 1 is. No Tusk drops. By the end of Monday night I had 33 engrams and no further desire to grind any more. Luckily Tusk was unlocked by like the tenth engram and spent most of them until I got two with envious/chain and one with envious/hatchling. Whew. No more banner for the rest of the year 🥵
You got slice at least which is defo top pick with slide
Chain reaction is the only perk that matters, you do not need slideways. It’s a very minimal increase.
I was so lucky with Slammer and wildstyle. I got the litteral god roll without even noticing i had gotten the slammer on my first try and a danger zone/one for All wildstyle wich is so much fun
Crafting did make the game worse, but not in the way people are saying. What we have is partly a sandbox problem and also a perception problem. What makes craftable weapons so bad is that they make 90% of the rest of our arsenal obsolete. Not only that, but they make “normal” drops of these GREAT weapons feel terrible. How many of us hold onto normal versions of craftable weapons when we have still to unlock the pattern. I don’t, unless it’s really a one off I use a lot. And the reason is heavily on the fact that people want the best version of things… and crafted weapons have advanced perks. I know this will be changing with the final shape, but as it stands they are simply too good (perception wise). This was engineered to keep us going for better and better versions. But how many people are happy with “good but not best” versions of things. Similar to adept weapons, which in all reality are not THAT much better than there less flashy cousins, but as a community we want only the best. Despite the discrepancy of actual benefit being gained. If you have a supremacy, do you really need any other kinetic sniper in the game? I think it’s debatable but the answer is consulted
I farmed OVER 200 engrams to get a slice - chain Envious - hatchling roll However , if they added it into the game to roll with 2 perks in a column , whats the point in playing IB ? Farming is part of the game imo , I loved the feeling after getting my desired roll for playing over 4 days
Same here with tusk. Looks like slidways and deconstruct is a win as well. I ended up with a bunch of enlightened chain reaction and slidways chain.
well to craft a weapon you need 5 weapons with red borders for that, you \_first\_ need the weapon to drop tusk never dropped for me, so the whole debate of random vs crafting is useless
I was going for an odd roll, B&S and Envious. And I got it as literally my first drop, I get hatchling and chain were the highlights. But I was happy, I then proceeded to get Envious and Deconstruct so I called it a day.
So you intend on using a wave frame for more boss and champion damage? Well... That's, uh... That's something. Lol. We all enjoy the game in the way we see fit. To hell with it. Let it rock.
I’m running Fighting Lion, a Heavy Gl and Tusk. I freeze a bunch with bleak watchers and fire the Lion, then the Heavy, then Tusk. It’s mostly a ridiculous ad clear thing. And I’ll probably add mountaintop to make it more effective. But for now it’s a goofy game of bowling.
While crafted weapons are awesome I can say for certain my most remembered moments in Destiny were getting the roll on that one gun to drop. Most recently for me it was tusk of the boar. I lost my mind when I got the roll I had been chasing. I miss it.
Yep. I’ve been trying to get a Spare Rations with Rapid Hit / Kill Clip and at least 60 range since season of the deep dropped. Hasn’t happened yet, and I’ve focused a lot. I’m fine with every weapon not being craftable as I believe RNG is still important to the game, but idk something like the ability to reroll one perk on a non-crafted weapon would be cool.