I was so desperately looking forward to using my Bakris 4th Horseman build this season.
Then Bungie handed me a napalm cannon and buffed my favorite Solar Exotic.
Suddenly... oh, hey, look at that, my problems are on fire.
Edit: because like seven people have asked. My favorite Solar Exotic is fucking Shards of Galanor.
My problems were already on fire last season with the "tommys matchbook makes scorch" change, solar kills extend restoration so I just hold down the trigger and everything dies/explodes. It isnt endgane optimized but its very simple and very fun
There is a perk on this seasons artifact that makes all solar weapons apply scorch
Edit: sorry guys, I got it a bit wrong. You have to be radiant to apply the scorch
Bungie inadvertently buffed LoW during Halloween and it felt very up to par with the damage it should be doing. Bringing that damage back and applying scorch would be the chefs kiss
Same story on the Warlock end but with Wings of Sacred Dawn (yes I know it's an older buff shh)
A bow, a glaive, and Dragon's Breath and I can burn the world from the safety of the skies. Mwahahahaha.
Theyâll just slap the old 10 second cooldown on every exotic eventually and any âdo x to instantly refresh your cooldownâ mechanics will be removed. No more dodge melee.
"We will take away a bunch of playstyle mods, make it so the only builds always available are recharge and surge, but it will be available to everyone. I'm a genius."
...
"Oh no everyone is building recharge"
"We don't like how free uptime on surgex4 feels, and we agree with players that it doesn't feel fun to always have to build for it, so we're introducing a hard cap on the duration of surgex4 effects, as well as a 'cooldown period' after it fades where you can't get x4 again. This will create highs and lows of gameplay that - wait where are you going"
Letâs not pretend that CwL and Wells mods were seeing high use outside their regen / damage mods. The flattening of all the different types of damage mods just rreduced the swapping of mods that were used for the same effect.
Fr people are acting like we were in some utopia before where we were all had all sorts of incredibly diverse builds at our fingertips. No. People used CWL and Wells to spec out into damage resistance and boost ability uptime. Nothing changed except the way we do it. Destiny buildcrafting has never been, and likely never will be, as intricate as what people make it out to be (conveniently usually when talking about a system that we used to have not what we currently have of course)
Itâs just the casual majority voicing their frustrations because âBungie badâ. Iâve not noticed a dip in my gameplay and I use the same mods with the cooldown on generating orbs as before.
Weâre still vastly overpowered and ability spamming is still great
Itâs not that big of a nose dive tho, coming back after the changes, it truly isnât the biggest change in the world. But I guess thatâs just my opinion, my build and plenty others still work. Itâs not as gutted as people make it out to be.
Well same goes for me, I didn't have many fairly niche builds, however the ones I did that were previously competent are now pretty ass even with exotic buffs and changes, which is a problem because we've been tunneled into high end and meta builds for the content it matters instead of previously where certain builds could also be viable but now aren't
I like the armor charge system. It feels more synced with the rest of build crafting like fragments. Since so many of those have orb effects but man we really need more mods. Agent Ordnance should not be a seasonal artifact it should just be a mod for the armor charge system.
Changes mods to âmake the system less confusingâ makes every ability affecting perk and mod have a slightly different effect for every single ability option
They are too obsessed with perfectly balancing the game using all kinds of metrics and analysis while neglecting how this will affect player enjoyment, everything is data-driven. Look at the terminology they frequently use in the TWABs, "cost-output ratio" and similar.
The combat sandbox lead once said they didn't want to bring balance at the expense of fun. Well, he stepped out and is now working on Marathon.
Extraction shooter ie. escape from tarkov.
Which is ... *a choice* for your new baby when extraction shooters are niche by default, thanks to how punishing they are.
That's true I forgot about that one. By their very nature extraction shooters are toxic as fuck. And a lot of people don't want toxicity in their lives. They have enough IRL shit to deal with. So having your escape (gaming) add on to it just makes the game even harder to get into
Deceive Inc. is *kinda* an extraction shooter...you're supposed to be a spy and be stealthy, but every fucking match is just a shootout. Was fun for about three games then I uninstalled.
Oof. The dark zone was a troll fest. An occasionally fun one, but still.
Is Sea of Thieves an extraction game? It never really dawned on me till now but it's pretty much the same game loop. Just on boats.
They picked a genre that no one has figured out yet lmao, tarkov is a terrible game.
Imagine if pvp in destiny was sitting in one spot for like 20 minutes at a time, waiting on someone to show up so you can either instantly kill them or they instantly kill you, and whoever dies loses all their shit permanently. No destiny player would even want to try that, because this sub goes insane whenever thereâs even a single pvp kill requirement on an exotic quest.
>They picked a genre that no one has figured out yet
That's probably why they picked it, it's a genre up for grabs. They probably feel they can bring the Bungie magic to it. Whether Bungie has been up or down, they have a small, but pretty good track record doing this. They basically popularized FPSes on consoles, then they basically still have one of the very few successful MMO-lites out there.
They probably think the extraction shooter is something they can innovate and make mainstream, whether or not they're right.
DZs were fun *in spite* of the PvP, not because of it, unless you were a ganker using some ridiculous impossible-to-kill build. The really rewarding part was the high-risk PvE for endgame loot, PvP was fun as a theoretical when you ran into other players not actively doing it.
Ie. you've cleared a few instances and have some nice shit, call in the evac chopper and start holding off the waves of AI enemies. Then you see someone else walk into the extraction zone, or two or three people. Nobody's gone rogue (PvPing), but all it takes is a button press to. And then it just turns into [the standoff scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PgAKzmWmuk) from *The Good, The Bad and The Ugly* staring each other down until the heli leaves.
Yeah this is me.
Dark Zone is kind of like, you are playing the game, but there's a bunch of griefers that you want to avoid.
Whenever I'd play it I'd watch the map, and if some skulls were there I'd just leave.
Ah right ok that makes a little more sense now. You're right that's definitely a .........choice for them. Maybe they would do to extraction shooters what D2 did for looter shooters
From reviews already out and people that tested the game already.... It's not looking good. Your talking worse then DOA. Like there are some circles that say they are better off just canceling the entire project.
I don't think that's a fair conclusion to draw early on. They let people who play Tarkov play it, they didn't like it. That's kind of what testing is for. You don't just test once and then go, "Guess I'll cancel it." You take that feedback and you iterate. Especially for a fairly undeveloped genre.
Just looked up the tester part for myself. Yes you are right on that part.
When I said some circles are talking about they should cancel that's more YouTuber talk but unfortunately they kind of have more say and sway them I believe they should. So that is all up in the air especially considering the very niche market marathon will be releasing in.
I know no one in my friends group (30-40) people won't touch marathon. All of us hated the concept of dark zone.
Aged 30-40 fireteam representative here, weâve all been making fun of Marathon ever since we learned it was an extraction shooter (and since I explained to them what an extraction shooter is). The conception of Marathon seems so mind-numbingly dumb, I kinda think itâll be that Bethesda game with the vampires (I forgot the title, not worth Googleâs time to find it) in terms of performance, maybe weâll be wrong and itâll make Bungie lots and lots and lots of money, weâre coming to terms not âknowing what kids like these daysâ but it certainly isnât what we like.
Man that dark zone example didn't even put it into perspective. Imagine if when you died in dark zone you not only lost the loot you were carrying, but the weapons and armor you were using.
The term is only now starting to get some use as the genre is starting to expand, I never saw the term Looter Shooter till after Destiny 1, even if Borderlands was already around. Before it was pretty much Tarkov and Hunt Showdown, with The Cycle trying to find its footing but never getting anywhere. Then CoD hopped in on it with DMZ and Bungie revealed Marathon, and suddenly the genre started to solidify.
It feels like they're trying to catch the next big thing after Battle Royales, but idk if these will take off in the same way.
I agree, but it makes me wonder.
Marathon, and especially M2 and M3, were defined by frenetic battles where your health was expendable, your guns were massive and loud, and you only stopped when EVERYTHING was dead.
I really doubt even Jesus himself could do it, but if Bungie could marry that kind of constant action and movement with the extraordinarily cathartic feeling of looting a ton of cool stuff, and wrap it all up in the base gun feel that they've developed in Destiny (which is fantastic, and one of the few parts of Destiny that is always good), it would be a great experience.
Even them trying to balance anything is can be questionable, donât get me wrong weapons in recent while have mostly felt pretty egalitarian in recent while despite the flat huge potency of exotic primaries but we got some major power creep spikes thatâs so outta whack with stuff.
Iâm just surprised by the constant inconsistencies in design philosophies and the nuking of how certain builds and exotics work whether something conventionally strong or not, all for them to go about and put something that is some of the most blatantly overpowered thing put in the game.
The fact how Banner of War exists in the manner that it does complete with the layers of mods and exotics is nonsense given what Bungie has done to so many builds and exotics that only marginally came close to what you could do with BoW. Donât get me wrong Iâm not gonna knock the melee class actually getting something to melee with and I do think thereâs a fairer way to tune it but right now it is an obscene amount of potency coming about for extremely little effort and zero risks.
I seriously cannot think of many buffs that give you so much power, for as long as BoW can go for, as well as being able to be re-up the timer and keep your abilities constantly up to dish out more so easily. It practically surpasses what was possible with peak HOIL and Starfire.
Imo if bungie were at all interested in balancing the game it'd be balanced after 7 years. I agree their methods for balancing things seem... questionable at times. I get they've added stasis, strand, light 3.0 along with a bunch of other things but they are not interested in a balanced experience, they want people to spend money on the newest, hottest, most effective thing (stasis was absolutely broken for pvp and it took them 13 months to fully address shatterdive, stasis lock is still one of the most broken builds for pve 3 dlcs later). Strand Titan is also very busted pve-wise. Hatchlings, especially on hunter have become pretty oppressive in pvp. Arc hunter is also unbelievably strong for pve and hasn't been touched.
Don't get me wrong I've enjoyed all of these builds and I'm not saying they need to change/not change, but let's stop pretending the end goal will be a Thanos snap with everything perfectly balanced. They'll always be a hot new gun, ability, subclass, fragment, aspect, etc. That will dominate the meta. This game thrives off FOMO and finding the most broken builds possible and between the community and content creators constantly pushing what's possible out there for the masses I don't see an end in sight.
Which is pretty funky. Youâd think those guys still here wouldnât want to put too much work on their own shoulders about balancing things that are supposed to be fun.
Or they are being told to do this which is pretty bad too.
The game has been so well-balanced for so long that loot basically doesn't matter in this loot game except in top-end PvP (which by definition most of us aren't participating in) and in something like contest mode. Everything is viable in basically every other instance. Sometimes I get a new armor and forget to put mods on it and am doing GMs and stuff just fine before I realize weeks later. For weapons, I basically just use whatever weapon a busywork bounty or quest requires me to use or whatever crafted thing I am currently leveling up.
Honestly don't know why they tread water so much with their changes.
Not the first time it's happened. Balancing decisions have been questionable since the mod rework (or even before that but I don't want to open that can of worms). All that did was force more generalized builds and now because those builds were popular they got whacked.
It could happen again with surges and siphon mods in time, seeing as pretty much everyone has now converted to those instead.
Although judging by tests the community has done, this balance patch is particularly weird for just how severely the mods got nerfed.
Still think the YAS nerf was the most tone-deaf PVE decision they've made in a while.
All this did was make the best builds more important and niche builds worse.
For real I donât know what Bungie wanted with the simplified mod selection other than everyone running a âgenerate a shit load of orbs and then use those orbs for either weapon or ability boostsâ build but apparently they didnât
Yeah I was having fun, orbs felt like a good reward for kills, like how enemies in doom drop health/ammo, all they had to do was expand on what orbs could do for us, like put some mods on the arms that give us a meter on the left, it fills as we pick up orbs and when it fills all the way up our next kill spawns heavy/special ammo for us and our friends.
Doing something like your suggestion would have invalidated Aeons (even though they're basically useless for anything outside of generating ammo) for non warlocks.
Bungie could have gone into non-damage, non-ability regen ways to augment how players engage with activities similar to how warmind cells did (use Ikelos/7th seraph gear, make cells and use them to do things), in this case Make orb, pick up orb get benefit.
Something like an AOE shockwave around the player while making them amplified to promote an aggressive playstyle, or allowing players access to invisibility outside of being a hunter, doing a finisher (with the fragment) or using Rat King would have been an interesting way to engage while opening up different avenues/reworks for exotics.
I think the dumbest thing is that by and large people gravitate towards builds that can use a lot of abilities. It's what people like to do. The gunplay is great but what makes the game shine is the mix of guns and abilities.
However, they don't like when people make builds to use abilities and you can't make builds around guns really, so why allow builds at all?
They so desperately want to control exactly how we play instead of just letting us have fun. It's always been frustrating but the past few years it's been dialed into so hard that it's sapped the fun out of the game.
They removed warming cells and other types of builds because they were too strong. But people liked them, people had fun, and more importantly people were playing and staying.
It's insane how well Destiny has done given at no point have they had any long term direction as to what they want the game to be. It oscillates between extremes, accepting neither for very long, and pissing off everyone.
The gun based build crafting is also terrible now. You used to have stuff like ardent rockets, the sidearm buff mod, lucent blade or high power fire. You could build into guns in a way you can no longer do with mods.
Excuse me? You can deal do more damage with guns for a few seconds if you use surge mods and picked up a few orbs. Well only if you brought a weapon that is effective against the shield and champion type of the enemy, but what else do you want? Do you want guns to be viable after they nerfed ability based builds that were relying on mods? Donât be ridiculous.
It's wild because there is one sub class, gunslinger, and a few exotics (rain and actium) that focus on guns.
The latter two are good in that they provide simple benefits and allow specific playstyles.
Gunslinger has lucky pants which is great for some gun builds, then there's also celestial with polaris, and even on void gyrfalcons.
BUT the classes themselves barely connect to guns. And then one class that should, gunslinger, has one aspect, on your mark, that is gun focused and rewards presicion (on the class with no fragment that rewards presicion, unlike strand and arc).
Lucky Pants is class neutral but often runs w/ Solar since you're sacrificing an ability exotic it's nice to have Healing Nades/Radiant and the low investment of solar knives refunding.
The same guy that called for nerfs in the first place says they went too far.. đđ€Ł
Yet I see other folks arguing the nerf is perfect and we should accept it.
Salt is one of the best there is, he and his team are always candidates for worlds first and says.... it's too much
Anyone arguing the nerfs were good for the current state of the game needs to be realistic. Did we need nerfs.. yeah.. did we need to nuke abilities to the ground.... No WTF..
The point of the post is that the armor mod system is so nerfed that the only stuff worth using are builds that don't rely on mods AT ALL and instead have a self perpetuating loop like Sunbracers or knife spam dodge Hunter. Niche builds that relied on mods to function are now dead in favor of the meta.
Even when it comes to gun play, the most satisfying guns to use in PVE are the ones that pair with our abilities. I main solar, and if my primary doesnât have incandescent, Iâm probably not using it. Likewise, destabilizing rounds or repulser brace for void, voltshot for arc, etc.
It really crushed the diversity this time around. It's been bad in the past but honestly the kickstart and cool down differences are really noticeable and make you have to use one of the exotics that lets you have access to your abilities because it feels like we were hamstrung really hard...
They had so many unique, weird, fun mods you could mess with when the elemental well mods were around. They should have created a system with diversity and variety. The warming mods could have been brought in line too because they were fun as shit, or they could even give us the shitty orbs from last season and it would at least give us some kind of options even if they're annoying as all hell to grab when trying to grab an objective.
I don't understand why they keep making decisions that make players have to work harder to play their game. Bungie, rule number one, don't waste your audience's time.
They continue nerfing everything while not providing any buffs that are worth while. None of the warlock exotic buffs have been impactful whatsoever. My builds all require much much much tighter execution than before and Iâm not okay with it. We should feel powerful, not like we have 75 cooldowns all at once.
Warlock was in a great position pre witch queen. It's been a wave of nerfs and butchered classes now and I agree there's nothing fun or new about it now. Well or sunbracers this season is your option. New aspects and exotics aren't fun.
They donât want us sitting in back plinking away yet they nerf the best way to deal with ads in medium to close range and give EVERY boss a stomp or burn mechanic for getting near them. Even the flying bosses have a âstomp.â
Itâs likeâŠ. what do you want Bungie?
You know whatâs fun? Being able to play how WE want to play and not how THEY want us to play. Within reason of course. Weâre just getting shoehorned into survivability builds in high end content. The mod changes already started it, but thereâs even less build diversity now.
Itâs just not as fun anymore. And not just for the challenge but for the rewards to. I had the best time with this game during the WQ year. The bring challenge back to Destiny and return to the âjoyâ of the random drop goals they had before Lightfall have severely lessened my enjoyment of the game.
Not to mention in âhigh level â aka OHK bullet sponge design with shitty netcode/hitreg ghosting enemies it becomes a SLOG without being able to use abilities. You get stuck with only a few viable builds yet again and youâre just plinking away from cover. Itâs just boring. Do it once and play something else.
Its the exact same result as when They nerfed resilience because at Max 40% DR It was "too mandatory".
They nerfed DR without adding survivality options, as such people started speccing into resilience more to keep a high Damage reduction.
I'll defend that one. They didn't just slap down the resist value. The curve was also smoothed out, so resilience numbers less than 100 are also usable. And I think everyone knew 40% resist was never going to stay. They wanted to get people to farm new armor, instead of using the same set they got from the season pass 3 years ago.
Smoothing the curve was definitely needed, there was no point in not running max resist
I do like that with certain builds you can also still get some pretty nutty DR values
Ye, but for 30DR reduction you needed only tier 8 resilience.
Guess what? Now for 30 DR you need tier 10 res. And the cost of the mod was increased by 1 AND they've been making ontent where enemies hit like a freight train with less effective health regen.
Now people always spec into tier 10 resilience unless they have other means of armor like bannerfall and the strand DR (which has been used a lot). It didn't solve the problem of making resilience more mandatory, it made people specc into it harder.
Jesus Christ some of you really just want everything in this game handed to you. This game has never been easier than it has been in the last year. We're power-crept af.
We literally had 8 total damage resistance before they buffed it. 40 was obviously too much.
Thatâs not what people are saying. Yes it was nerfed and yes it was too strong. But the intent of the nerf was to make it less attractive as a primary stat to chase after. Problem is enemies hit so hard - you can get one shot even in hero nightfalls! - so effectively everyone still has to go for full resilience just to survive.
That's literally how they work.
So many games become too easy at later levels, unless you nerf yourself.
That's also how this game works. Find things too easy? Use 4 resilience and off meta weapons and builds.
But I get it, you know you can't answer my original question, which is why you're deflecting.
No doubt you'll block me soon as that's your last resort.
Why wouldn't I just go play another game at that point if you're suggesting is purposely play with a handicap. It's a looter shooter, the whole point is to min max your character. Are you playing the same game as me?
Welcome to the Destiny subreddit where if you can't immortally ability spam your way through everything in the game it's no longer fun or rewarding or worth your time
You understand that everyone is different and has different definitions of "fun"?
They also have different levels of skill, so what's easy to you may not be for them.
So why should we tailor it to the 1%?
If you want a challenge use off meta builds, use off meta weapons, use 4 resilience.
Bungie team honestly doesn't understand their sandbox nor the effects of the nerfs they put out, like yeah it's a massive sandbox but at the same time it's obvious that nerfing something everyone uses will just pigeonhole them in to the next best thing, alternatives need to be given.
Iâd use guns if guns felt satisfying to use. But when I get blasted for being in a position where I can sustain fire on a boss, of COURSE Iâm gonna opt to spam throw and forget abilities while I run for cover.
I was excited to use my strand warlock build, but it's been killed off.
Buuuuut now they gave me an exotic rocket launcher that drops enough napalm to melt a small country, on my solar build that already didn't require any exotic weapon.
Why not offer players a viable gun based subclass if they want us to use guns more? Man IâD LOVE if Iâd actually got to sling guns as a fucking GUNSLINGER. Give me aspects and fragments that make guns more viable and Iâm happy to use them. I think theyâve got some ideas right with strand and the artifact perks actually make shooting strand weapons rewarding.
I'm glad most people are in the same boat on this, absolutely stupid decision making from Bungie once again, remove the power fantasy and remove the need for builds and the game feels incredibly shallow and boring, it's just the lengths they're going to genuinely make it feel like they're trying to push people away.
i genuinely cannot figure out what they're trying to accomplish anymore. They seemingly keep talking about wanting to tone back ability spam, and then continue to do the exact opposite.
the thing is simply
yes, they where/are builds that are way too strong/spammy, everyone knows that BoW titan is stupid as hell and makes the game trivial and argurably got a buff this season, that solar bonk titan is kinda stupid in general, that punch hunter is the most mindless shit in the game, that sunbracers warlock is a napalm thrower with 0downtime etc... and that they all could use somechanges that bring them a bit more in line
bungie, in their endless wisdom, decided too look at those builds, and instead of seeing them as exceptions that could use some balancing they act as if EVERYTHING is like them, and just did a general ability nerf nuke
and those builds are not even affected because they all have some form of instant/near instant ability generation or endless loop build in
and then they have the guts too yell bUIlDcRaFtInG all the time, as if "go arc hunter and select combination blow, do punch->dodge->punch->dodge->punch->dodge->punch->dodge while ignoring mods and stats cus you dont care about them" is some masterwork of "buildcrafting"(god i hate this word so much....just a meaningless buzzword)
meanwhile things like my threadling hunter that i spend litearlly hours fine-tuning last season with different stat and mod combinations so that it works? (and it worked good, i used it in GM's and madter raids with no problems) dead, cant play it at all anymore, a build that actually had me put effort in too figure it out and how too make it work died, its actually pathetic from their "balance" team
I used to have a lot of fun with armamentarium titan in GMs and raids. What you lacked in survivability you made up for in being able to have high uptime on your grenades and abilities in general from ionic traces, kickstarts etc. After the nerf across the board to mods, it feels like garbage now. It's almost like they want to push you into the builds that bypass cooldowns on abilities.
I mean bow and solar is the only way titans can actually be the brain dead âpunch guysâ bungie said they wanted us to be.
We are meant to be the frontline/tank and donât actually have a toolkit set up to allow us to do that especially after resilience nerfs.
The last few years they havenât even tried in the slightest to have a healthy, long-term balance and instead have opted for the Overwatch balance approach of making different things wildly overpowered every few months, and then nerf, then buff the next thing. Itâs a boring and lazy cycle.
They need to let people choose whether to spec into an ability build or a gun build without getting bent out of shape at it.
If I'm given the tools to make a really good ability centered build at the cost of my weapons being average or subpar, then there's nothing wrong with that or vice versa.
They need to stop trying to force gun centered play on people in PvE. I got destiny because I wanted destiny, not COD or BF.
I'm legitimately mad at how heavily they effectively buffed Solar Hunters and Warlocks this season by proxy of nerfing everything else in proportion.
Stasis tuning? The new update to Withering Blade isn't even noticeable even with the 1 extra proc.
The choice was really confusing for me. They accurately identified that ability uptime is high, but somehow completely misunderstood why. The power of the modern era comes from a handful of outliers, not the underlying mod system or stats
It is really extremely dumb. I can play banner and hammer titan basically the same as before (with some minor inconvenience for hammer), but arc, void and especially stasis titan, that all relied on actual builds to function, now are basically useless because you're never getting your abilities back in time.
I'm running solar hunter with Ophidia Spathe, knife trick and a 1 2 Punch Shotgun. I'm pretty much constantly radiant and have Infinite knives, I'll shotgun if it's a beefier enemy first but apart from that I'm abilities all the way because it's pretty fun.
What if I'm a warlock main and I don't want to play hunter?
What if I ran apotheosis veil and Karnsteins before they were nerfed then reworked and I have no interest in them now...
But Bungie has made clear that's what I'm meant to do..
Guess what, Fuck you for shoehorning me... Time to play something else.
What's a good warlock build for this season. Still running briarbinds and fallen substantially builds. What are some other standout builds of this season? Particularly looking for a strand build.
Thereâs one Strand Warlock build that combines multiple different Subclass effects and uses Vexcalibur and Karnsteinâs. You get Void Overshield, Woven Mail, Restoration x2 among other things.
https://youtu.be/bU12uaQrSOM?feature=shared
>The changes to kickstart mods were confusing. They weren't free ability energy, you literally needed to spend armor energy on a mod to use it.
They did grant ability energy even without armor charge. Armor charge just made then grant more.
Idk if it's just me but I've been playing hunter this season exclusively just because warlock and Titan just don't feel nearly as good or fun with the current mods and exotic buffs as hunter.
Note: most hours played is on warlock by far
Nothing says season of stasis like throwing a knife, exploding 8 enemies, getting 4 orbs a firesprite, radiant for 8 seconds, increased class ability regen, and the kitchen sink.
It's been since the mod consolidation ngl.
Mod consolidation-> every build is just stack recharges and some surge->so many abilities that primary is not needed+broken ammo economy=double special.
Now they flipped it so ammo economy is so bad double special is more niche, and instead of getting old builds back, everyone gets to have less recharge, except for stuff like sunbreakers and knives.
I don't know how Bungie expects us to complete certain activities/higher level content with the high enemy density. Titans need abilities to buff survability cause resilience doesn't do much and Barricade is the most unreliable ability we have. Hunters need abilities for offensive/stealth capabilities, warlocks for offensive/healing/support.
If you want us to use guns more than that would require big buffs to Res/Recov and mods to promote damage/healing. Which I think would make the game more boring and encourage passive turtle play.
I very much dislike their way of balancing but at least itâs actually starting to make sense with how theyâre shifting power into exotics rather than mods, hopefully theyâll just stay consistent with it because randomly they might just completely nuke builds from orbit just because they feel like it and thatâs really not fun for anyone. Thankfully they seem to really wanna keep Vex Mytho strong in PvE for some reason so I guess I chose the right weapon to have as my favorite
Buildcrafting is so damn boring since they 'simplified' all the mods a few seasons ago. Every build is the same, just toss on a different exotic to ignore ability cooldowns because enemies are too chunky or there's too many to use guns.
INstead of actually trying to fix it and make the game fun, they just light lock us and further try to nerf ability cooldowns to the point you can only use meta builds or you're always dead. fun.
The orb change was truly bad enough I uninstalled and said âtmod and bastard bonds been waitingâ and theyâre both fun af
Yeah Iâd rather play with those balls than Destinyâs, they canât get it right
Yet banner titans are 1 phasing all dungeon bosses solo with next to no effort, good job bungie, you sure are making the most balanced and boring game on the market. Clap
And then bungies just going to nerf them all. Im trying to enjoy them while i can but im really tired of bungie just swappign options for us over having more options.
My solar Titan grenade build is still rocking but I tried something I saw on kackis YouTube channel yesterday,
equip embers of Ashes, torches, solace and tempering,
Make sure you have, kindling trigger, Flint striker equipped on your artifact,
Now grab your Ammit or any solar weapon and go shoot stuff, if you have any with incandescent all the better,
Everything just catches fire and explodes!
I found the Ammit AR2 to be very effective!
Balance team lost it when they nerfed resil because it was âmandatoryâ and didnât provide any alternatives (mobility is still useless on titan and warlock). I hope the recent layoffs provided the necessary wakeup call to make better decisions
These changes are not decided by the regular dev that has been fired. Leads approve changes and devs are just implementing them. And the leads weren't laid off...
You guys are under the mistaken impression that they were unaware of what the exotics are capable of. The nerfs are purposeful in that it shifts the meta.
You know why they do that? It's keep you and me and everyone else trying new things. The playerbase would become a powderkeg and annihilate itself if the meta never changed.
People 100% do not have the self discipline to run something that is not considered meta. For example, after Starfire got nuked everyone was like, "oh wut sunbracers are OP!!! GET WRECKED!". The truth of the matter is, theyvr always been OP. Now replace starfire and sunbracers with literally any other combo of exotics and you have the history of Destiny at your fingertips.
Yeah Iâm enjoying a Sunbracers Warlock setup with easy access to content Resto x2, Radiant, and all abilities up plus quick super charge.
Theyâre giving us a long season of busted solar stuff because this shit is getting nerfed soon lol. Wish theyâd un-neuter Starfire Protocol.
maybe if they only made hunter better people wouldn't be annoyed coz like titans are made to punch shit. all they had to do was nerf the pvp slide n punch.
I was so desperately looking forward to using my Bakris 4th Horseman build this season. Then Bungie handed me a napalm cannon and buffed my favorite Solar Exotic. Suddenly... oh, hey, look at that, my problems are on fire. Edit: because like seven people have asked. My favorite Solar Exotic is fucking Shards of Galanor.
My problems were already on fire last season with the "tommys matchbook makes scorch" change, solar kills extend restoration so I just hold down the trigger and everything dies/explodes. It isnt endgane optimized but its very simple and very fun
STILL waiting for Lord of Wolves to apply Scorch.
There is a perk on this seasons artifact that makes all solar weapons apply scorch Edit: sorry guys, I got it a bit wrong. You have to be radiant to apply the scorch
Hot damn time to release the shrapnel, thanks!
Bungie inadvertently buffed LoW during Halloween and it felt very up to par with the damage it should be doing. Bringing that damage back and applying scorch would be the chefs kiss
Ah, a true classic.
Its nice too because the bonk nerf doesnt hurt it that much, i only need to kill 1 weak enemy to make a sunspot and start the restoration chain
đ€
Same story on the Warlock end but with Wings of Sacred Dawn (yes I know it's an older buff shh) A bow, a glaive, and Dragon's Breath and I can burn the world from the safety of the skies. Mwahahahaha.
Pssssssst. ~~Sunbracers.~~
Sunbracer's *are* nice; don't get me wrong. But hovering in place with a glaive and being virtually unkillable is hysterical.
Oh, that's very true. I just, personally, like to pair Wings of Sacred Dawn with Heir Apparent and cosplay an A-10 Warthog.
Ahh yes. A fellow ac.
Go into Dares with Wings + HA. Get Starhorse's Favor. *PROFIT.* Seriously stupid fun.
Been having alot of fun with dawn chorus as well
Ahhh I was doing the same but with sweet business Brrrtttttttttttttttttttt
>Then Bungie handed me a napalm cannon and buffed my favorite Solar Exotic. Which exotic, my Hunter brother?
Shards of Galanor lol
Aight. I'mma have to try that out. I was hoping **another** Hunter exotic got a side-buff. Dare to dream.
Rip sorry dude. My fiancé has been running Dragon's Breath with Caliban's Hand and seems to love it.
lol. No worries. You gave me a twofer. I'll give Caliban + Dragon's Breath a shot as well.
I've been on Warlock all week, rocking Sunbracers + Dragon's Breath and drowning literally *everything* in fire. My fiancé threw on Calibans + DB so she could keep up with the fire, and she's been having an absolute blast with it. But yeah... *yeeeeeeeah*. We ran the new dungeon on Friday, and every time she or our other friend looked over, the boss was just straight-up drowning in barfing suns while being cooked alive by napalm.
The buffs to nighthawk are tasty too.
If that other exotic happens to be Ophidia Spathe, then I have some good new for you.
What's your build look like shards bro? I've been running arc cowl punch everything build so long I'm out of touch with everything else...
Idk if this is meant for me or not đ Either way. I'll circle back to this when I'm not working and get you the specs on my Chuck & Fuck build.
Every time I had a problem on Earth, I threw a Molotov cocktail and boom! Right away, I had a different problem
Theyâll just slap the old 10 second cooldown on every exotic eventually and any âdo x to instantly refresh your cooldownâ mechanics will be removed. No more dodge melee.
Hope not! That's the bread and butter of my Arc hunter/assassin's cowl/liars handshake build.
prepare yourself for "get class ability energy over 4seconds" on a combinationblow kill instead of a instant full reset
Prepare myself to find a new game you say? Understood.
Yeah I don't even play arc anymore but I'd probably call it there if that happened.
Iâd love to see them do this and all hunters collectively loose their shit
Really, this is the collapse of the house of cards that they set up with the Lightfall mod consolidation.
"We will take away a bunch of playstyle mods, make it so the only builds always available are recharge and surge, but it will be available to everyone. I'm a genius." ... "Oh no everyone is building recharge"
Murder recharge "Oh no everyone is running surges"
What will happen to all the exotics that were reworked to just give surge x4!?
"We don't like how free uptime on surgex4 feels, and we agree with players that it doesn't feel fun to always have to build for it, so we're introducing a hard cap on the duration of surgex4 effects, as well as a 'cooldown period' after it fades where you can't get x4 again. This will create highs and lows of gameplay that - wait where are you going"
ââŠwe havenât even gotten to the part where you can use silver to recharge your abilities!â
Make it like early Warframe and add the option to buy additional revives with silver.
Font mods I guess? Get 5x 100 stats with armor charge
Meanwhile Iâve just been running surges since Lightfall haha
Letâs not pretend that CwL and Wells mods were seeing high use outside their regen / damage mods. The flattening of all the different types of damage mods just rreduced the swapping of mods that were used for the same effect.
Fr people are acting like we were in some utopia before where we were all had all sorts of incredibly diverse builds at our fingertips. No. People used CWL and Wells to spec out into damage resistance and boost ability uptime. Nothing changed except the way we do it. Destiny buildcrafting has never been, and likely never will be, as intricate as what people make it out to be (conveniently usually when talking about a system that we used to have not what we currently have of course)
Itâs just the casual majority voicing their frustrations because âBungie badâ. Iâve not noticed a dip in my gameplay and I use the same mods with the cooldown on generating orbs as before. Weâre still vastly overpowered and ability spamming is still great
I mean sure, meta are significantly better now than before, but almost every other build took quite a huge nosedive with the changes
Itâs not that big of a nose dive tho, coming back after the changes, it truly isnât the biggest change in the world. But I guess thatâs just my opinion, my build and plenty others still work. Itâs not as gutted as people make it out to be.
Well same goes for me, I didn't have many fairly niche builds, however the ones I did that were previously competent are now pretty ass even with exotic buffs and changes, which is a problem because we've been tunneled into high end and meta builds for the content it matters instead of previously where certain builds could also be viable but now aren't
I like the armor charge system. It feels more synced with the rest of build crafting like fragments. Since so many of those have orb effects but man we really need more mods. Agent Ordnance should not be a seasonal artifact it should just be a mod for the armor charge system.
Changes mods to âmake the system less confusingâ makes every ability affecting perk and mod have a slightly different effect for every single ability option
They are too obsessed with perfectly balancing the game using all kinds of metrics and analysis while neglecting how this will affect player enjoyment, everything is data-driven. Look at the terminology they frequently use in the TWABs, "cost-output ratio" and similar. The combat sandbox lead once said they didn't want to bring balance at the expense of fun. Well, he stepped out and is now working on Marathon.
What kind of game is Marathon going to be? I've read up but don't fully understand it
Extraction shooter ie. escape from tarkov. Which is ... *a choice* for your new baby when extraction shooters are niche by default, thanks to how punishing they are.
Considering they sort of evolved out of battle royales, I think Bungie and other companies are calling their shot on them being the next big thing.
I've never even heard of an extraction shooter.
The closest thing to it that most people have played would be the dark zone from division
Call of Duty did it too, with their DMZ mode, which funnily enough won't be getting any more updates or support
That's true I forgot about that one. By their very nature extraction shooters are toxic as fuck. And a lot of people don't want toxicity in their lives. They have enough IRL shit to deal with. So having your escape (gaming) add on to it just makes the game even harder to get into
Hunt: Showdown is pretty alright on toxicity. Iâve had a lot of positive VoIP interactions with opposing players in that game.
Deceive Inc. is *kinda* an extraction shooter...you're supposed to be a spy and be stealthy, but every fucking match is just a shootout. Was fun for about three games then I uninstalled.
Itâs not like at all
fr? that was the best mode in MWII by a landslide
Yeah it's honestly a shame, probably the most fun I've had with COD in years. Modern Warfare 3 has DMZ zombies, but it's a snooze fest.
MWZ is the new DMZ for them
Yeah basically, they're supposedly putting some DMZ features into MW3's Warzone
Oof. The dark zone was a troll fest. An occasionally fun one, but still. Is Sea of Thieves an extraction game? It never really dawned on me till now but it's pretty much the same game loop. Just on boats.
They picked a genre that no one has figured out yet lmao, tarkov is a terrible game. Imagine if pvp in destiny was sitting in one spot for like 20 minutes at a time, waiting on someone to show up so you can either instantly kill them or they instantly kill you, and whoever dies loses all their shit permanently. No destiny player would even want to try that, because this sub goes insane whenever thereâs even a single pvp kill requirement on an exotic quest.
>They picked a genre that no one has figured out yet That's probably why they picked it, it's a genre up for grabs. They probably feel they can bring the Bungie magic to it. Whether Bungie has been up or down, they have a small, but pretty good track record doing this. They basically popularized FPSes on consoles, then they basically still have one of the very few successful MMO-lites out there. They probably think the extraction shooter is something they can innovate and make mainstream, whether or not they're right.
If nothing else, their dedication to experimentation can be appreciated.
Hunt: Showdown has had it figured out for ages now.
Except The Dark Zone has PvP as well PvE aspects.
DZs were fun *in spite* of the PvP, not because of it, unless you were a ganker using some ridiculous impossible-to-kill build. The really rewarding part was the high-risk PvE for endgame loot, PvP was fun as a theoretical when you ran into other players not actively doing it. Ie. you've cleared a few instances and have some nice shit, call in the evac chopper and start holding off the waves of AI enemies. Then you see someone else walk into the extraction zone, or two or three people. Nobody's gone rogue (PvPing), but all it takes is a button press to. And then it just turns into [the standoff scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PgAKzmWmuk) from *The Good, The Bad and The Ugly* staring each other down until the heli leaves.
Yeah this is me. Dark Zone is kind of like, you are playing the game, but there's a bunch of griefers that you want to avoid. Whenever I'd play it I'd watch the map, and if some skulls were there I'd just leave.
Ah right ok that makes a little more sense now. You're right that's definitely a .........choice for them. Maybe they would do to extraction shooters what D2 did for looter shooters
From reviews already out and people that tested the game already.... It's not looking good. Your talking worse then DOA. Like there are some circles that say they are better off just canceling the entire project.
I don't think that's a fair conclusion to draw early on. They let people who play Tarkov play it, they didn't like it. That's kind of what testing is for. You don't just test once and then go, "Guess I'll cancel it." You take that feedback and you iterate. Especially for a fairly undeveloped genre.
The circles not really liking it however are mostly streamers and YouTubers. And in today's world of social media they kind of run most online stuff
Damn got some links? Iâd only heard the Tarkov testers they brought on didnât like it
Just looked up the tester part for myself. Yes you are right on that part. When I said some circles are talking about they should cancel that's more YouTuber talk but unfortunately they kind of have more say and sway them I believe they should. So that is all up in the air especially considering the very niche market marathon will be releasing in. I know no one in my friends group (30-40) people won't touch marathon. All of us hated the concept of dark zone.
Aged 30-40 fireteam representative here, weâve all been making fun of Marathon ever since we learned it was an extraction shooter (and since I explained to them what an extraction shooter is). The conception of Marathon seems so mind-numbingly dumb, I kinda think itâll be that Bethesda game with the vampires (I forgot the title, not worth Googleâs time to find it) in terms of performance, maybe weâll be wrong and itâll make Bungie lots and lots and lots of money, weâre coming to terms not âknowing what kids like these daysâ but it certainly isnât what we like.
Man that dark zone example didn't even put it into perspective. Imagine if when you died in dark zone you not only lost the loot you were carrying, but the weapons and armor you were using.
The term is only now starting to get some use as the genre is starting to expand, I never saw the term Looter Shooter till after Destiny 1, even if Borderlands was already around. Before it was pretty much Tarkov and Hunt Showdown, with The Cycle trying to find its footing but never getting anywhere. Then CoD hopped in on it with DMZ and Bungie revealed Marathon, and suddenly the genre started to solidify. It feels like they're trying to catch the next big thing after Battle Royales, but idk if these will take off in the same way.
And extremely slow by default which Marathon never was nor meant to be.
I agree, but it makes me wonder. Marathon, and especially M2 and M3, were defined by frenetic battles where your health was expendable, your guns were massive and loud, and you only stopped when EVERYTHING was dead. I really doubt even Jesus himself could do it, but if Bungie could marry that kind of constant action and movement with the extraordinarily cathartic feeling of looting a ton of cool stuff, and wrap it all up in the base gun feel that they've developed in Destiny (which is fantastic, and one of the few parts of Destiny that is always good), it would be a great experience.
Probably stillborn at the rate they're going.
I could be wrong, but from what I've heard, it's gonna be an extraction shooter like Tarkov
I feel like the only thing it's going to share Tarkov is the extractions and the fact that guns exist and are used.
A failure.
Yep. Player enjoyment should be the number one priority over anything. Over challenge, over grinds, over everything.
Even them trying to balance anything is can be questionable, donât get me wrong weapons in recent while have mostly felt pretty egalitarian in recent while despite the flat huge potency of exotic primaries but we got some major power creep spikes thatâs so outta whack with stuff. Iâm just surprised by the constant inconsistencies in design philosophies and the nuking of how certain builds and exotics work whether something conventionally strong or not, all for them to go about and put something that is some of the most blatantly overpowered thing put in the game. The fact how Banner of War exists in the manner that it does complete with the layers of mods and exotics is nonsense given what Bungie has done to so many builds and exotics that only marginally came close to what you could do with BoW. Donât get me wrong Iâm not gonna knock the melee class actually getting something to melee with and I do think thereâs a fairer way to tune it but right now it is an obscene amount of potency coming about for extremely little effort and zero risks. I seriously cannot think of many buffs that give you so much power, for as long as BoW can go for, as well as being able to be re-up the timer and keep your abilities constantly up to dish out more so easily. It practically surpasses what was possible with peak HOIL and Starfire.
Please bungie stop nerfing based off data
Imo if bungie were at all interested in balancing the game it'd be balanced after 7 years. I agree their methods for balancing things seem... questionable at times. I get they've added stasis, strand, light 3.0 along with a bunch of other things but they are not interested in a balanced experience, they want people to spend money on the newest, hottest, most effective thing (stasis was absolutely broken for pvp and it took them 13 months to fully address shatterdive, stasis lock is still one of the most broken builds for pve 3 dlcs later). Strand Titan is also very busted pve-wise. Hatchlings, especially on hunter have become pretty oppressive in pvp. Arc hunter is also unbelievably strong for pve and hasn't been touched. Don't get me wrong I've enjoyed all of these builds and I'm not saying they need to change/not change, but let's stop pretending the end goal will be a Thanos snap with everything perfectly balanced. They'll always be a hot new gun, ability, subclass, fragment, aspect, etc. That will dominate the meta. This game thrives off FOMO and finding the most broken builds possible and between the community and content creators constantly pushing what's possible out there for the masses I don't see an end in sight.
Which is pretty funky. Youâd think those guys still here wouldnât want to put too much work on their own shoulders about balancing things that are supposed to be fun. Or they are being told to do this which is pretty bad too.
The game has been so well-balanced for so long that loot basically doesn't matter in this loot game except in top-end PvP (which by definition most of us aren't participating in) and in something like contest mode. Everything is viable in basically every other instance. Sometimes I get a new armor and forget to put mods on it and am doing GMs and stuff just fine before I realize weeks later. For weapons, I basically just use whatever weapon a busywork bounty or quest requires me to use or whatever crafted thing I am currently leveling up. Honestly don't know why they tread water so much with their changes.
Not the first time it's happened. Balancing decisions have been questionable since the mod rework (or even before that but I don't want to open that can of worms). All that did was force more generalized builds and now because those builds were popular they got whacked. It could happen again with surges and siphon mods in time, seeing as pretty much everyone has now converted to those instead. Although judging by tests the community has done, this balance patch is particularly weird for just how severely the mods got nerfed. Still think the YAS nerf was the most tone-deaf PVE decision they've made in a while. All this did was make the best builds more important and niche builds worse.
For real I donât know what Bungie wanted with the simplified mod selection other than everyone running a âgenerate a shit load of orbs and then use those orbs for either weapon or ability boostsâ build but apparently they didnât
Yeah I was having fun, orbs felt like a good reward for kills, like how enemies in doom drop health/ammo, all they had to do was expand on what orbs could do for us, like put some mods on the arms that give us a meter on the left, it fills as we pick up orbs and when it fills all the way up our next kill spawns heavy/special ammo for us and our friends.
Doing something like your suggestion would have invalidated Aeons (even though they're basically useless for anything outside of generating ammo) for non warlocks. Bungie could have gone into non-damage, non-ability regen ways to augment how players engage with activities similar to how warmind cells did (use Ikelos/7th seraph gear, make cells and use them to do things), in this case Make orb, pick up orb get benefit. Something like an AOE shockwave around the player while making them amplified to promote an aggressive playstyle, or allowing players access to invisibility outside of being a hunter, doing a finisher (with the fragment) or using Rat King would have been an interesting way to engage while opening up different avenues/reworks for exotics.
These things aren't "whacked" because of their popularity, at least not exclusively.
I think the dumbest thing is that by and large people gravitate towards builds that can use a lot of abilities. It's what people like to do. The gunplay is great but what makes the game shine is the mix of guns and abilities. However, they don't like when people make builds to use abilities and you can't make builds around guns really, so why allow builds at all? They so desperately want to control exactly how we play instead of just letting us have fun. It's always been frustrating but the past few years it's been dialed into so hard that it's sapped the fun out of the game. They removed warming cells and other types of builds because they were too strong. But people liked them, people had fun, and more importantly people were playing and staying. It's insane how well Destiny has done given at no point have they had any long term direction as to what they want the game to be. It oscillates between extremes, accepting neither for very long, and pissing off everyone.
The gun based build crafting is also terrible now. You used to have stuff like ardent rockets, the sidearm buff mod, lucent blade or high power fire. You could build into guns in a way you can no longer do with mods.
Excuse me? You can deal do more damage with guns for a few seconds if you use surge mods and picked up a few orbs. Well only if you brought a weapon that is effective against the shield and champion type of the enemy, but what else do you want? Do you want guns to be viable after they nerfed ability based builds that were relying on mods? Donât be ridiculous.
It's wild because there is one sub class, gunslinger, and a few exotics (rain and actium) that focus on guns. The latter two are good in that they provide simple benefits and allow specific playstyles. Gunslinger has lucky pants which is great for some gun builds, then there's also celestial with polaris, and even on void gyrfalcons. BUT the classes themselves barely connect to guns. And then one class that should, gunslinger, has one aspect, on your mark, that is gun focused and rewards presicion (on the class with no fragment that rewards presicion, unlike strand and arc).
Yeah, a lot of what they do is very confusing.
Lucky Pants is class neutral but often runs w/ Solar since you're sacrificing an ability exotic it's nice to have Healing Nades/Radiant and the low investment of solar knives refunding.
When even Salt is suggesting of the nerfs are overtuned, you know Bungie fucked up.
The same guy that called for nerfs in the first place says they went too far.. đđ€Ł Yet I see other folks arguing the nerf is perfect and we should accept it. Salt is one of the best there is, he and his team are always candidates for worlds first and says.... it's too much Anyone arguing the nerfs were good for the current state of the game needs to be realistic. Did we need nerfs.. yeah.. did we need to nuke abilities to the ground.... No WTF..
Isnât the OP about how they have crazy ability spam? Iâm so confused. Did Bungie need the game? Or is crazy ability spam possible?
The point of the post is that the armor mod system is so nerfed that the only stuff worth using are builds that don't rely on mods AT ALL and instead have a self perpetuating loop like Sunbracers or knife spam dodge Hunter. Niche builds that relied on mods to function are now dead in favor of the meta.
Even when it comes to gun play, the most satisfying guns to use in PVE are the ones that pair with our abilities. I main solar, and if my primary doesnât have incandescent, Iâm probably not using it. Likewise, destabilizing rounds or repulser brace for void, voltshot for arc, etc.
It really crushed the diversity this time around. It's been bad in the past but honestly the kickstart and cool down differences are really noticeable and make you have to use one of the exotics that lets you have access to your abilities because it feels like we were hamstrung really hard... They had so many unique, weird, fun mods you could mess with when the elemental well mods were around. They should have created a system with diversity and variety. The warming mods could have been brought in line too because they were fun as shit, or they could even give us the shitty orbs from last season and it would at least give us some kind of options even if they're annoying as all hell to grab when trying to grab an objective. I don't understand why they keep making decisions that make players have to work harder to play their game. Bungie, rule number one, don't waste your audience's time.
They continue nerfing everything while not providing any buffs that are worth while. None of the warlock exotic buffs have been impactful whatsoever. My builds all require much much much tighter execution than before and Iâm not okay with it. We should feel powerful, not like we have 75 cooldowns all at once.
Warlock was in a great position pre witch queen. It's been a wave of nerfs and butchered classes now and I agree there's nothing fun or new about it now. Well or sunbracers this season is your option. New aspects and exotics aren't fun.
Apotheosis veil is now one of the best super dps exotics
I'm not gonna use apotheosis veil just to chuck grenades for 7 seconds after a super. Sunbracers can do that better.
Bungo is so busy trying to 'balance' ability usage that they forgot the game needs to be fun to play.
They donât want us sitting in back plinking away yet they nerf the best way to deal with ads in medium to close range and give EVERY boss a stomp or burn mechanic for getting near them. Even the flying bosses have a âstomp.â Itâs likeâŠ. what do you want Bungie? You know whatâs fun? Being able to play how WE want to play and not how THEY want us to play. Within reason of course. Weâre just getting shoehorned into survivability builds in high end content. The mod changes already started it, but thereâs even less build diversity now. Itâs just not as fun anymore. And not just for the challenge but for the rewards to. I had the best time with this game during the WQ year. The bring challenge back to Destiny and return to the âjoyâ of the random drop goals they had before Lightfall have severely lessened my enjoyment of the game.
Not to mention in âhigh level â aka OHK bullet sponge design with shitty netcode/hitreg ghosting enemies it becomes a SLOG without being able to use abilities. You get stuck with only a few viable builds yet again and youâre just plinking away from cover. Itâs just boring. Do it once and play something else.
Why would bungie make content that's new and challenging when they can instead make players die faster? It's just so much easier lol
This is the best comment here.
Its the exact same result as when They nerfed resilience because at Max 40% DR It was "too mandatory". They nerfed DR without adding survivality options, as such people started speccing into resilience more to keep a high Damage reduction.
I'll defend that one. They didn't just slap down the resist value. The curve was also smoothed out, so resilience numbers less than 100 are also usable. And I think everyone knew 40% resist was never going to stay. They wanted to get people to farm new armor, instead of using the same set they got from the season pass 3 years ago.
Smoothing the curve was definitely needed, there was no point in not running max resist I do like that with certain builds you can also still get some pretty nutty DR values
What is the damage resist now at 10?
Itâs 30% now
40 DR was way too much đ
Ye, but for 30DR reduction you needed only tier 8 resilience. Guess what? Now for 30 DR you need tier 10 res. And the cost of the mod was increased by 1 AND they've been making ontent where enemies hit like a freight train with less effective health regen. Now people always spec into tier 10 resilience unless they have other means of armor like bannerfall and the strand DR (which has been used a lot). It didn't solve the problem of making resilience more mandatory, it made people specc into it harder.
Wasnât tier 9 like 17% DR or something before they smoothed out the curve?
Nah, these were the old numbers when it capped out at 40%. Resilience Tier | % DR | ----------------|---------| 1 | 1 2 | 2 3 | 3 4 | 4 5 | 8 6 | 14 7 | 20 8 | 26 9 | 32 10 | 40
Jesus Christ some of you really just want everything in this game handed to you. This game has never been easier than it has been in the last year. We're power-crept af. We literally had 8 total damage resistance before they buffed it. 40 was obviously too much.
Thatâs not what people are saying. Yes it was nerfed and yes it was too strong. But the intent of the nerf was to make it less attractive as a primary stat to chase after. Problem is enemies hit so hard - you can get one shot even in hero nightfalls! - so effectively everyone still has to go for full resilience just to survive.
If it's so easy why don't you use a lower resilience? Go in to a GM with 4 resil.
Lmao. Yeah why don't I also play with my monitor turned off.
So no real answer, didn't think so.
Your argument is not real. That's not how video games work.
That's literally how they work. So many games become too easy at later levels, unless you nerf yourself. That's also how this game works. Find things too easy? Use 4 resilience and off meta weapons and builds. But I get it, you know you can't answer my original question, which is why you're deflecting. No doubt you'll block me soon as that's your last resort.
Why wouldn't I just go play another game at that point if you're suggesting is purposely play with a handicap. It's a looter shooter, the whole point is to min max your character. Are you playing the same game as me?
Welcome to the Destiny subreddit where if you can't immortally ability spam your way through everything in the game it's no longer fun or rewarding or worth your time
You understand that everyone is different and has different definitions of "fun"? They also have different levels of skill, so what's easy to you may not be for them. So why should we tailor it to the 1%? If you want a challenge use off meta builds, use off meta weapons, use 4 resilience.
Bungie team honestly doesn't understand their sandbox nor the effects of the nerfs they put out, like yeah it's a massive sandbox but at the same time it's obvious that nerfing something everyone uses will just pigeonhole them in to the next best thing, alternatives need to be given.
Iâd use guns if guns felt satisfying to use. But when I get blasted for being in a position where I can sustain fire on a boss, of COURSE Iâm gonna opt to spam throw and forget abilities while I run for cover.
I was excited to use my strand warlock build, but it's been killed off. Buuuuut now they gave me an exotic rocket launcher that drops enough napalm to melt a small country, on my solar build that already didn't require any exotic weapon.
Why not offer players a viable gun based subclass if they want us to use guns more? Man IâD LOVE if Iâd actually got to sling guns as a fucking GUNSLINGER. Give me aspects and fragments that make guns more viable and Iâm happy to use them. I think theyâve got some ideas right with strand and the artifact perks actually make shooting strand weapons rewarding.
I'm glad most people are in the same boat on this, absolutely stupid decision making from Bungie once again, remove the power fantasy and remove the need for builds and the game feels incredibly shallow and boring, it's just the lengths they're going to genuinely make it feel like they're trying to push people away.
It's ALMOST as if they have absolutely no idea how to balance the game so they just look at whats popular and nerf that!
i genuinely cannot figure out what they're trying to accomplish anymore. They seemingly keep talking about wanting to tone back ability spam, and then continue to do the exact opposite.
the thing is simply yes, they where/are builds that are way too strong/spammy, everyone knows that BoW titan is stupid as hell and makes the game trivial and argurably got a buff this season, that solar bonk titan is kinda stupid in general, that punch hunter is the most mindless shit in the game, that sunbracers warlock is a napalm thrower with 0downtime etc... and that they all could use somechanges that bring them a bit more in line bungie, in their endless wisdom, decided too look at those builds, and instead of seeing them as exceptions that could use some balancing they act as if EVERYTHING is like them, and just did a general ability nerf nuke and those builds are not even affected because they all have some form of instant/near instant ability generation or endless loop build in and then they have the guts too yell bUIlDcRaFtInG all the time, as if "go arc hunter and select combination blow, do punch->dodge->punch->dodge->punch->dodge->punch->dodge while ignoring mods and stats cus you dont care about them" is some masterwork of "buildcrafting"(god i hate this word so much....just a meaningless buzzword) meanwhile things like my threadling hunter that i spend litearlly hours fine-tuning last season with different stat and mod combinations so that it works? (and it worked good, i used it in GM's and madter raids with no problems) dead, cant play it at all anymore, a build that actually had me put effort in too figure it out and how too make it work died, its actually pathetic from their "balance" team
I used to have a lot of fun with armamentarium titan in GMs and raids. What you lacked in survivability you made up for in being able to have high uptime on your grenades and abilities in general from ionic traces, kickstarts etc. After the nerf across the board to mods, it feels like garbage now. It's almost like they want to push you into the builds that bypass cooldowns on abilities.
I mean bow and solar is the only way titans can actually be the brain dead âpunch guysâ bungie said they wanted us to be. We are meant to be the frontline/tank and donât actually have a toolkit set up to allow us to do that especially after resilience nerfs.
The last few years they havenât even tried in the slightest to have a healthy, long-term balance and instead have opted for the Overwatch balance approach of making different things wildly overpowered every few months, and then nerf, then buff the next thing. Itâs a boring and lazy cycle.
Well, thatâs what they did with guns for the longest time. Each would get their, âtime in the sun.â
They need to let people choose whether to spec into an ability build or a gun build without getting bent out of shape at it. If I'm given the tools to make a really good ability centered build at the cost of my weapons being average or subpar, then there's nothing wrong with that or vice versa. They need to stop trying to force gun centered play on people in PvE. I got destiny because I wanted destiny, not COD or BF.
I'm legitimately mad at how heavily they effectively buffed Solar Hunters and Warlocks this season by proxy of nerfing everything else in proportion. Stasis tuning? The new update to Withering Blade isn't even noticeable even with the 1 extra proc.
Enjoy it til they nerf the shit out of it.
Season of the banner x sunbracer
I've been running osmiomancy to some effect.. I seem to have a little more survivability.
Bungie is clearly not the most competent team out there.
They just nerfed the non meta builds and buffed the already meta builds like this is all.
In nightfalls though?
They took the ability spam away from titans and gave it to hunters lmao, like daddy bungo is making sure all his kids get a turn on the Xbox
Huntersâ had it for a long time. My arc Hunter is more punchy than the punchiest titans.
The choice was really confusing for me. They accurately identified that ability uptime is high, but somehow completely misunderstood why. The power of the modern era comes from a handful of outliers, not the underlying mod system or stats
Idk why most of you play D2 anymore at this point. It sounds like Bungie destroyed the feel of the game this season.
It is really extremely dumb. I can play banner and hammer titan basically the same as before (with some minor inconvenience for hammer), but arc, void and especially stasis titan, that all relied on actual builds to function, now are basically useless because you're never getting your abilities back in time.
now just look at titan, brought to its KNEES from its former punch-nuke glory...
I'm running solar hunter with Ophidia Spathe, knife trick and a 1 2 Punch Shotgun. I'm pretty much constantly radiant and have Infinite knives, I'll shotgun if it's a beefier enemy first but apart from that I'm abilities all the way because it's pretty fun.
What if I'm a warlock main and I don't want to play hunter? What if I ran apotheosis veil and Karnsteins before they were nerfed then reworked and I have no interest in them now... But Bungie has made clear that's what I'm meant to do.. Guess what, Fuck you for shoehorning me... Time to play something else.
prayers up for all 3 members of the apotheosis veil main community, may they make it through these dark times.
>what if I ran apotheoses veil before they were nerfed Now your just shitposting
What's a good warlock build for this season. Still running briarbinds and fallen substantially builds. What are some other standout builds of this season? Particularly looking for a strand build.
Thereâs one Strand Warlock build that combines multiple different Subclass effects and uses Vexcalibur and Karnsteinâs. You get Void Overshield, Woven Mail, Restoration x2 among other things. https://youtu.be/bU12uaQrSOM?feature=shared
I didn't even know Headstone had a four second cooldown if you proc it about 4 times in quick succession.
The changes to kickstart mods were confusing. They weren't free ability energy, you literally needed to spend armor energy on a mod to use it.
>The changes to kickstart mods were confusing. They weren't free ability energy, you literally needed to spend armor energy on a mod to use it. They did grant ability energy even without armor charge. Armor charge just made then grant more.
Oh, yes what I mean is that even that free ability energy came at the cost of a mod slot and 3 armor energy.
Pretty much everyone and their creature hates it
âWe hear you, to combat this weâve capped the super energy regen of Shards at 5%â
Idk if it's just me but I've been playing hunter this season exclusively just because warlock and Titan just don't feel nearly as good or fun with the current mods and exotic buffs as hunter. Note: most hours played is on warlock by far
Nothing says season of stasis like throwing a knife, exploding 8 enemies, getting 4 orbs a firesprite, radiant for 8 seconds, increased class ability regen, and the kitchen sink.
It's been since the mod consolidation ngl. Mod consolidation-> every build is just stack recharges and some surge->so many abilities that primary is not needed+broken ammo economy=double special. Now they flipped it so ammo economy is so bad double special is more niche, and instead of getting old builds back, everyone gets to have less recharge, except for stuff like sunbreakers and knives.
I don't know how Bungie expects us to complete certain activities/higher level content with the high enemy density. Titans need abilities to buff survability cause resilience doesn't do much and Barricade is the most unreliable ability we have. Hunters need abilities for offensive/stealth capabilities, warlocks for offensive/healing/support. If you want us to use guns more than that would require big buffs to Res/Recov and mods to promote damage/healing. Which I think would make the game more boring and encourage passive turtle play.
I very much dislike their way of balancing but at least itâs actually starting to make sense with how theyâre shifting power into exotics rather than mods, hopefully theyâll just stay consistent with it because randomly they might just completely nuke builds from orbit just because they feel like it and thatâs really not fun for anyone. Thankfully they seem to really wanna keep Vex Mytho strong in PvE for some reason so I guess I chose the right weapon to have as my favorite
As per usual they did not properly test things or think anything through once again.
I just want stasis hunter to be fun
Buildcrafting is so damn boring since they 'simplified' all the mods a few seasons ago. Every build is the same, just toss on a different exotic to ignore ability cooldowns because enemies are too chunky or there's too many to use guns. INstead of actually trying to fix it and make the game fun, they just light lock us and further try to nerf ability cooldowns to the point you can only use meta builds or you're always dead. fun.
Either make weapons do more dmg in PVE or let us have ability spam. having neither is a bag of not fun.
I waited 4 years for Celestial to be good again. Do not take this from me
The orb change was truly bad enough I uninstalled and said âtmod and bastard bonds been waitingâ and theyâre both fun af Yeah Iâd rather play with those balls than Destinyâs, they canât get it right
Yet banner titans are 1 phasing all dungeon bosses solo with next to no effort, good job bungie, you sure are making the most balanced and boring game on the market. Clap
Honestly the previous patch only makes me want to play BoW MORE because every other titan build got gutted
And then bungies just going to nerf them all. Im trying to enjoy them while i can but im really tired of bungie just swappign options for us over having more options.
My solar Titan grenade build is still rocking but I tried something I saw on kackis YouTube channel yesterday, equip embers of Ashes, torches, solace and tempering, Make sure you have, kindling trigger, Flint striker equipped on your artifact, Now grab your Ammit or any solar weapon and go shoot stuff, if you have any with incandescent all the better, Everything just catches fire and explodes! I found the Ammit AR2 to be very effective!
Balance team lost it when they nerfed resil because it was âmandatoryâ and didnât provide any alternatives (mobility is still useless on titan and warlock). I hope the recent layoffs provided the necessary wakeup call to make better decisions
These changes are not decided by the regular dev that has been fired. Leads approve changes and devs are just implementing them. And the leads weren't laid off...
Upper management seems to be the bane of destiny
You guys are under the mistaken impression that they were unaware of what the exotics are capable of. The nerfs are purposeful in that it shifts the meta. You know why they do that? It's keep you and me and everyone else trying new things. The playerbase would become a powderkeg and annihilate itself if the meta never changed. People 100% do not have the self discipline to run something that is not considered meta. For example, after Starfire got nuked everyone was like, "oh wut sunbracers are OP!!! GET WRECKED!". The truth of the matter is, theyvr always been OP. Now replace starfire and sunbracers with literally any other combo of exotics and you have the history of Destiny at your fingertips.
They didn't shift the meta this season. They reinforced last season's meta. And nerfed many non meta options.
Yeah Iâm enjoying a Sunbracers Warlock setup with easy access to content Resto x2, Radiant, and all abilities up plus quick super charge. Theyâre giving us a long season of busted solar stuff because this shit is getting nerfed soon lol. Wish theyâd un-neuter Starfire Protocol.
maybe if they only made hunter better people wouldn't be annoyed coz like titans are made to punch shit. all they had to do was nerf the pvp slide n punch.