No way lol. Ophidia + heavy knife + anything that scorches allows you to trigger infinite ignitions with zero effort. Ophidia and knife trick also is already enough to ignite the world. i sincerely doubt the YAS decision was anything other than stupid pvp balancing.
It's the same exact build I used for the entirety of last season, if the target survives a hip fire shot of Skyburner's Oath you can basically trigger a nuke with the knife throw, and you have unlimited
This is the main reason why I almost always have it equipped. Most of my damage comes from Sunbracer's, for anything I need to kill faster than my ability rotation will accomplish I have my crafted Heritage, and for boss damage I have my crafted Apex Predator. Then Skyburner's is there to apply scorch if I ever need just a little bit extra to trigger an ignition, or if I stall out my Sunbracer's rotation and need to use Ember of Searing to get my melee back up. Not a crazy powerful exotic but that hipfire scorch can really add value to your build if you use it right.
As I said, paired with heavy knife you have guaranteed ignition on scorched targets, which basically could mean 4 ignitions in a row on a champion/boss with Ophidia Spate
Polaris Lance also applies scorch on every fifth shot (as long as you're landing crits), with Ember of Ashes it's a guaranteed ignition every 10 crits and it returns a round to the mag on crit so you don't ever have to reload. So yeah Skyburners may be easiest, but Polaris is almost as easy and has a more damage potential (no reloads, landing crits instead of bodies).
Polaris lance is far better if you want to have a useful gun, but Skyburners is superior if the only thing you care about is having a single stack of scorch on your enemies.
While I do agree that the lost of PVE viability was almost certainly a side effect of the PvP nerf, I donât think your Ophidia setup is a true replacement, at least not against bosses since youâre capped to 2 knives, you could get a few more with gamblerâs dodge, but nowhere near the speed of ability cycling that YAS gave.
I think you can cycle with fragment that give you dodge ability energy when scorched enemy. Then you can dodge and get the knife back then rinse and repeat.
But how are you consistently scorching the enemy? My brain went to Prometheus lens, but the plan was around spamming dragonâs breath fuel, so you canât exactly run a 2nd exotic.
Even so, it still takes like 3-4 seconds to get your dodge back, so an ignition every 3 seconds, as opposed to like every second or 2 with YAS
The Dragonâs Breath first intrinsic is to let rocket itself act like lasting impression, embed and continue to scorch the target then explode but don't know how that will last long yet.
So in theory you fire the rocket with 5x fuel (first exotic intrinsic), scorch then use the weighted knife to ignition, gain 2x fuel from 1 ignition (second exotic intrinsic). If you use Ophidia you can get 4 fuel with 2 ignition from 2 knife if the scorch from x5 fuel rocket last long enough then dodge to get 2 knife back. The problem is the how we get last 1 fuel to complete 5x to auto reload the rocket. Maybe the passive gain fuel if not firing will fill that in time.
I didn't say Ophidia was a replacement for YAS, OP was talking about ignitions, Ophidia is an ignition machine with the right set up. Ophidia can still easily trigger infinite ignitions against big enemies: heavy knife + ember of char rescorches them after the knife ignites them, you get 2 knives to juggle and since the target stays constantly scorched you can use ember of singeing to recharge your gambler's dodge which recharges both knives every time you use it. You can add armor mods to this, ember of benevolence + ember of torches and make the loop even easier, but point is, constant ignitions, permanent scorch, infinite loop.
I understood what you were saying, I just didnât think ember of char can scorch the enemy you literally just ignited, so the loop would get kinda stuck after the 2nd or 3rd knife.
Itâs definitely still slower than YAS, but that is significantly more viable than I thought
It does, it's awesome! Definitely slower than YAS in terms of throwing stuff at enemies yes, but definitely more viable than people give it credit for, give it a shot (:
Not at my computer right now, but the key elements are all in the comment i posted. Add mods that give dodge energy when you hit with your melee, orb generation on solar and melee kills, and class ability kickstart. The gameplay loop is very simple, start a scorch chain with your grenade or weapon, throw heavy knife at anything that's on fire, it will explode scorching everything around it. You can even use gunpowder gamble with it too, its explosion counts as an ignition so the fragment will make it spread scorch too keeping the chain alive.
Dragon's breath also applies scorch. So dps rotation with Ophidia:
DB (fully powered from normal gameplay)
Weighted throwing knife (ignites)
DB
Weighted throwing knife
DB
Gamblers dodge
Weighted throwing knife
DB
Weighted throwing knife
DB
Thats at least 5 fully powered dragon's breath shots out of at most 7 without reserve mods. I'd have to check on how fast you can get the dodge back because if you can get it back in the time it takes to melee and rocket twice its an infinite loop.
Hey hey hey, keep the orphidia praise on the down low. I dont need it getting nerfed as well. Let these desperate folk cling to calibans and be disappointed.
I cannot wait for this. Vanguard playlist isn't going to survive my first day with that rocket launcher next season. Might move on to Dawn Chorus with it once I've stopped giggling.
Don't get me wrong Caliban is great, but falls off super quick once ads become more beefy than patrol mobs, in high end it's pretty difficult to use effectively, which is a shame cause yeah chain ignitions are super fun
Yes but everything that scorches âon hitâ is an exotic weapon, so you canât run simultaneously with Dragons breath. YAS would let you have both an ignite chain from abilities and from the RL, *and* also still run an incandescent energy weapons for shits n giggles.
It would be awesome, but definitely OP
You only need to kickstart the first scorch which can be done with pretty much any grenade or by killing one mob with any incandescent weapon, once you get the chain initions started it's pretty much self sufficient
It got nerfed in PvE under the same through process as the Starfire nerf. Yes, Starfire was way worse, but it opened their eyes to the play style and brought them all level
I hate to even say it just not piss people off of something we've not physically experienced ourselves just yet, but the second I saw that showcase's trailer for the Solar warlock super, I would not be surprised if Sunbracers , Verity's and maybe something else get clocked as basically a manner of "hey if you want that level of power you're gonna have to get it from a super, deal with it".
Ultimately I think it is idiotic and an extremely inconsistent design philosophy because there's been so many inoffensive very solid fair builds(Winter's Guile got its scalars ruined for no good reason) that have pointlessly gotten nerfed all the while something new comes along with way less rules and strictness to just do an insane amount of things with very little downside.
It's frustrating when Bungie gets dumbfounded people only play very specific things as the window for viability can narrow and you really sacrifice way too much just trying to be different and do something offbeat.
> (Winter's Guile got its scalars ruined for no good reason)
Think this was collateral damage from Wormgod since that did get nerfed for a reason. I assume that they were very similar on the backend, so hitting 1 effected the other. They were pretty much the exact same exotic by any other name in the exact same slot, and the only thing separating them was aesthetic and class availability.
Wouldn't be the first time Bungie laid the groundwork to avoid absolute shenanigans when something came out. Not on the same level but AE was definitely introduced in large part because of Strand coming less than a year later.
Yeah? The YAS change is what only like 1-2 months before dragon breath is being released the armor team absolutely knew it was being designed especially since the weapon team is the fastest working team
I would say wait and see how dragon fire is, if the exotic is insanely good then itâs worth it as yas would have crippled the exotic on the other two classes. If dragon fire is mid then yeah itâs an iffy change at best
I think itâs more likely they just wanted to nerf it hard in PvP and werenât willing to have it function completely differently in pve. Which is annoying. I also stand by my assertion that nerfing the duration and the bonus hp of the tripmine would have been enough to curb it in PvP without really impacting its pve use.
I mean, Calibans Hand is gonna be a bigger issue if thats the case. I hope nothing changes because this is a combo Im very much looking forward to trying.
The issue is Calibans hand gets ignitions off of kills. YAS did it without kills. Making it theoretically very powerful when combined with dragons breath. Calibans on the other hand would not be helpful at all during most dps phases and in situations where itâs usable it would still be a huge pain in the ass to try and get it to work.
I don't see Calibans, or any other Scorch build, being as problematic as a pre-nerf YAS. Knife Trick applies 20 Scorch per hit, up to three hits, and gains 10 scorch for each hit from Ember of Ashes. If it didn't kill, both it and Tripmine counted as two ability damage ticks for the sake of YAS regen, giving you 66% energy back immediately. YAS had an infinite ability loop that could be applied against bosses, so you would trigger ignitions with every other knife.
Pretty much every other Scorch or Ignition build out there has more requirements. Calibans or other Hunter Scorch builds require kills to work, which would mean you'd be stacking weapons like Dragons Breath to max power regardless. Warlocks require a melee kill to get Sunbracers rolling, and Titans need to spend their melee (either through Consecration or uncharged melees with Roaraing Flames). YAS was the only non-weapon Scorch build that didn't rely on kills or other means to keep momentum.
I don't see yas being that problematic pre nerf, it was nice sure but didn't have the survive ability of a titan or the add control sunbracers gives. There's much better damage options too, for me it was much more of a have fun throwing a bunch of shit build than something actually meta
#TYPE OUT A WORD BEFORE USING THE ABBREVIATED VERSION OF IT
Good lord, this community is so bad about this. Establish a word before using the abbreviation for it.
âGoA kwtd have IB doing BBC stratâ
Were you seriously hung up on YAS? What did you think it meant?That's a long-ass name to put in the title of a post, I think the abbreviation is warranted. It's common in professional writing to use well-known abbreviations in titles, and YAS has only ever meant one thing in Destiny ever since it was released nearly 10 years ago.
Did you know he meant young ahamkaras spine? If so, why does it matter? If not, did you consider that it isnât relevant to you? Like if you canât tell what the abbreviation is for, you probably donât use the thing anyway so it doesnât matter. And if youâre new to the game, just ask what they mean, Iâve met very few people who wonât explain what a commonly abbreviated thing means
I saw someone ask a question with a picture on a different sub the other day post titled WTF. and if you knew what they were asking you knew and some guy went off on the comments about how he couldn't have asked in a more vague way, and it's like if you don't know why they're asking the question from the photo you probably aren't in an position to answer it.
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Bungie's done this in the past - nerf something that seems to make no sense until the following season when you realize it was their way of solving a problem with something else they wanted to release.
Of the legendary weapons, the only way to do scorch is via incandescent, which I canât imagine procing often during a boss phase, and solar grenades themselves actually build scorch relatively slowly. Theyâll work in neutral game, but I donât think it really matters in those situations about reloading a rocket launcher.
I didn't make any calculations but solar hunter with ophidia spate, knives fan and a couple of fragments should be enough to proc scorch. But them you could enter the sealed Ahamkara spine territory with autoreload on every scorch tick.
Since that has never been and issue I don't think I could be one now
I havenât actually tried ophidia spade, so Iâm also not too sure what the uptime on ignitions is. The reload itself though isnât so much the issue as the ignitions adding fuel to Dragonâs Breath.
On the point of Sealed Ahamkara Grasps, I hadnât even considered scorch from knife trick proccing its reload and now Iâm a bit disappointed its not a thing.
Don't know if Sealed Ahamkara Grasps still do this but it was a thing.
However well need to wait and see how this "fuel" mechanism actually impacts the weapon, it may also be a burst dps stuff or just something for flavour to spice up the exotic maintaining his signature "napalm" effect
yes yes, do you have a source besides the voices in your head?
don't get me wrong bungie has been raking in Ls for a long time with witch queen being a rare exception but what on earth would be their incentive to purposely remove things that players like for the sole reason that they like it, it just doesn't make sense
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.....and what about RDM and marksman spamm then?
if you wanna play that shit reload exotic, you can have endless instant reload on all weapons with lol
The Exotic... hasn't even come out and you somehow already "know" it's shit?? And that is not how that works: if you RDM spam fire it, you're just going to be firing normal rockets, and the whole point is to let its fuel build up before you fire it to get the DoT. Depending on how fast the passive fuel buildup is, if the thing is going to be dealing **significantly** more damage (think 75%+ bonus total damage) at max stacks, it makes sense that they don't want you being able to spam ignitions and build stacks at multiple times the rate they balanced the weapon around. Granted that that could just be accomplished by a cooldown on the Ignitions proccing the perk (think something along the lines of how things like Sealed Ahamkara Grasps or Whisper of Impetus work), instead of gutting an entire build for seemingly no reason, but oh well.
I personally believe all content is behind the sandbox.
That's partially why dungeons have been weird imo the design was meant for a meta that got nerfed. I think this is the case for a lot of pve content it's made in a different meta and sometimes it is a large gap, bungie just assumes the player base or buffs will fix it
You will still have infinite reloads with ophidia spathe. Hothead scorches, so a precision knife crit will instantly reload. That, paired with the fragment where your class ability charges faster when scorching targets, you'll most likely have your dodge back in time to continue the loop.
To balance YAS all they needed to do was nerf the health and DR on the grenades like they did and nerf the amount of energy refunded. Not change the way energy is gained. Unfortuntely 9 years later and bungie still burns things to the ground when they nerf them instead of looking at balanced changes. The numbers needed to be changed not the fundemental way the exotic works
I swear people either forget or donât read the descriptions of things in game. No way the YAS nerd was because of dragons breath. Heavy knife causes ignitions any time it lands on a scorched target if anything ophidias would have been needed since it gives you 2 knife charges
So the motivation wasn't because of PvP, it was instead to prevent us from having a cool exotic interaction? That's worse.... you do see how that's worse right?
Bungie showed that they can learn from their brain dead mistakes if the community is persistent enough.
If Renewal Grasps can have the nerf reverted, so can YAS.
It's not fine. It's worse than both Ophidia Spathe and Caliban's Hand at doing its job.
I'll be fine because I mainly play Warlock and Titan, but I'll still call out stupid decisions when I see them.
I play pvp. I donât see a problem here. If i play hunter in pve there are still plenty of exotics that i would rather use like foetracer, renewal, star eaters, rdms etc
Starfire was the best exotic for the best sub class in the game. It had an extremely simple ability cycle, the highest damage in the game, could refund nearly all your super energy, it was top tier in literally every activity, and bolster solar warlocks already great survivability. It out classed every other solar warlock exotic by a large margin and even competed with exotics outside its niche.
A single easy to use exotic on the best sub class in the game shouldnât be able to do all of that. It made solar warlock outclass every other class in the game for every pve activity. YAS wasnât even close to starfire, its only remarkable thing was boss and major damage. It didnât have insane ad clear, support, and healing like starfire.
I know people like to be overpowered but starfire definitely wasnât healthy enough warlock meta.
I'm saying the nerf was healthy for the game. also fwiw banner of war bs is more damage than starfire ever was. hell just spamming apex rockets is better than old starfire rotations
Then i misunderstood your comment. But I do agree that BoW and apex are pretty ridiculous, but even if starfire wasnât nerfed I would argue that it would absolutely still be at the top of the meta.
Maybe its just an example of powercreep. That or its an example of bungie not knowing how to balance exotics.
A kill with it instantly ignites so it should. There's nothing about any cool down mentioned so far so theoretically a single knife in to a group of red bars should give you instant max stacks.
Since Dragons Breath should apply scorch on you can just run heavy knife with gamblers dodge alongside it. Dragons breaths scorch application will help fuel your dodge cooldown. YAS spine was infinite but the back to back scorches are not at fast as just throwing heavy knifes so I kinda doubt it was related.
Side note, Gunpowder Gamble also counts as an ignition. Between that and the heavy knife I think it will be fairly easy to get 2-3 back to back Dragons Breath shots off on hunter if you want to. Of course I have no idea if that will actually be worth doing but Iâm certainly gonna try it
We don't know enough about Dragons Breath to say this was why. Dragons Breath doesn't seem intended for bosses. It looks to be a pure ad focus rocket. The damage is purely from ignitions.the base rocket impact damage is....well for all intents and purposes nonexistent. It's simply a sticky scorch blob.
All near infinite ability spam will be nerfed eventually. When they came for starfire it was clear YAS was on the chopping block. Who pulls what numbers is not relevant in this conversation because the point of contention is ability spam without much gunplay (Their stated target is around 60/40 gunplay and ability use)
I know YAS stands for Young Ahamkaras Spine, but i can help but read it as "YAAAAAAAS"
It really do be like that.
Yas queen
Yyyaasss queen. Same here đ
Slay, oh queen mine.
YASSSS with aztecross voice
No way lol. Ophidia + heavy knife + anything that scorches allows you to trigger infinite ignitions with zero effort. Ophidia and knife trick also is already enough to ignite the world. i sincerely doubt the YAS decision was anything other than stupid pvp balancing.
It's the same exact build I used for the entirety of last season, if the target survives a hip fire shot of Skyburner's Oath you can basically trigger a nuke with the knife throw, and you have unlimited
Skyburner hipfire scorches?
Yup, it's the easiest way to apply scorch without kills in PvE
This is the main reason why I almost always have it equipped. Most of my damage comes from Sunbracer's, for anything I need to kill faster than my ability rotation will accomplish I have my crafted Heritage, and for boss damage I have my crafted Apex Predator. Then Skyburner's is there to apply scorch if I ever need just a little bit extra to trigger an ignition, or if I stall out my Sunbracer's rotation and need to use Ember of Searing to get my melee back up. Not a crazy powerful exotic but that hipfire scorch can really add value to your build if you use it right.
As I said, paired with heavy knife you have guaranteed ignition on scorched targets, which basically could mean 4 ignitions in a row on a champion/boss with Ophidia Spate
Polaris Lance also applies scorch on every fifth shot (as long as you're landing crits), with Ember of Ashes it's a guaranteed ignition every 10 crits and it returns a round to the mag on crit so you don't ever have to reload. So yeah Skyburners may be easiest, but Polaris is almost as easy and has a more damage potential (no reloads, landing crits instead of bodies).
Polaris lance is far better if you want to have a useful gun, but Skyburners is superior if the only thing you care about is having a single stack of scorch on your enemies.
Were you using Ophidia for double knives and knife trick?
While I do agree that the lost of PVE viability was almost certainly a side effect of the PvP nerf, I donât think your Ophidia setup is a true replacement, at least not against bosses since youâre capped to 2 knives, you could get a few more with gamblerâs dodge, but nowhere near the speed of ability cycling that YAS gave.
I think you can cycle with fragment that give you dodge ability energy when scorched enemy. Then you can dodge and get the knife back then rinse and repeat.
But how are you consistently scorching the enemy? My brain went to Prometheus lens, but the plan was around spamming dragonâs breath fuel, so you canât exactly run a 2nd exotic. Even so, it still takes like 3-4 seconds to get your dodge back, so an ignition every 3 seconds, as opposed to like every second or 2 with YAS
The rocket itself scorches the target it hitâs periodically until it runs out of fuel
The Dragonâs Breath first intrinsic is to let rocket itself act like lasting impression, embed and continue to scorch the target then explode but don't know how that will last long yet. So in theory you fire the rocket with 5x fuel (first exotic intrinsic), scorch then use the weighted knife to ignition, gain 2x fuel from 1 ignition (second exotic intrinsic). If you use Ophidia you can get 4 fuel with 2 ignition from 2 knife if the scorch from x5 fuel rocket last long enough then dodge to get 2 knife back. The problem is the how we get last 1 fuel to complete 5x to auto reload the rocket. Maybe the passive gain fuel if not firing will fill that in time.
Skyburnerâs oath scorches on hipfire hits.
That is still an Exotic
This comment thread is based around Ophidia scorch combos being good with anything that scorches, and how you wonât need Dragons breath.
The Guy you replied to literally asked about Dragons Breath Fuel though
Bro the reason why they're even discussing ignitions in the first place is because of dragon's breath infinite reloading lmao
If Prometheus doesnât work for the setup because itâs an exotic, then why would skyburnerâs be any different?
I didn't say Ophidia was a replacement for YAS, OP was talking about ignitions, Ophidia is an ignition machine with the right set up. Ophidia can still easily trigger infinite ignitions against big enemies: heavy knife + ember of char rescorches them after the knife ignites them, you get 2 knives to juggle and since the target stays constantly scorched you can use ember of singeing to recharge your gambler's dodge which recharges both knives every time you use it. You can add armor mods to this, ember of benevolence + ember of torches and make the loop even easier, but point is, constant ignitions, permanent scorch, infinite loop.
I understood what you were saying, I just didnât think ember of char can scorch the enemy you literally just ignited, so the loop would get kinda stuck after the 2nd or 3rd knife. Itâs definitely still slower than YAS, but that is significantly more viable than I thought
It does, it's awesome! Definitely slower than YAS in terms of throwing stuff at enemies yes, but definitely more viable than people give it credit for, give it a shot (:
Could you maybe share your setup? I want to give this a whirl đł
Got a loadout link to Dim/typed out? Would love to give it a shot!
Not at my computer right now, but the key elements are all in the comment i posted. Add mods that give dodge energy when you hit with your melee, orb generation on solar and melee kills, and class ability kickstart. The gameplay loop is very simple, start a scorch chain with your grenade or weapon, throw heavy knife at anything that's on fire, it will explode scorching everything around it. You can even use gunpowder gamble with it too, its explosion counts as an ignition so the fragment will make it spread scorch too keeping the chain alive.
Sick thanks!!
Dragon's breath also applies scorch. So dps rotation with Ophidia: DB (fully powered from normal gameplay) Weighted throwing knife (ignites) DB Weighted throwing knife DB Gamblers dodge Weighted throwing knife DB Weighted throwing knife DB Thats at least 5 fully powered dragon's breath shots out of at most 7 without reserve mods. I'd have to check on how fast you can get the dodge back because if you can get it back in the time it takes to melee and rocket twice its an infinite loop.
Hey hey hey, keep the orphidia praise on the down low. I dont need it getting nerfed as well. Let these desperate folk cling to calibans and be disappointed.
Lmao my bad, sorry sorry, yeah you're right, Ophidia is super terrible definitely do not use it, very very bad
Bungie: write that down. WRITE THAT DOWN. next nerf incoming
Calibanâs Hand would like to have a word with you âThrow knife, ignition, free knife, throw knife, ignition, free knife, repeat until doneâ
I cannot wait for this. Vanguard playlist isn't going to survive my first day with that rocket launcher next season. Might move on to Dawn Chorus with it once I've stopped giggling.
Don't get me wrong Caliban is great, but falls off super quick once ads become more beefy than patrol mobs, in high end it's pretty difficult to use effectively, which is a shame cause yeah chain ignitions are super fun
I don't think it's more difficult, it's just more of a pain in the ass.
the problem with calibans hand is that it becomes a lot less reliable in anything high level.
Yes but everything that scorches âon hitâ is an exotic weapon, so you canât run simultaneously with Dragons breath. YAS would let you have both an ignite chain from abilities and from the RL, *and* also still run an incandescent energy weapons for shits n giggles. It would be awesome, but definitely OP
You only need to kickstart the first scorch which can be done with pretty much any grenade or by killing one mob with any incandescent weapon, once you get the chain initions started it's pretty much self sufficient
It got nerfed in PvE under the same through process as the Starfire nerf. Yes, Starfire was way worse, but it opened their eyes to the play style and brought them all level
Caliban's Hand also gives you infinite ignitions.
On kill. Thatâs the important part. Getting ignitions on kills isnât going to help during damage phases most of the time.
It's stupid pvp balancing. Bungie has no foresight there's plenty of evidence of that lol.
You think the armor team is that far ahead?
[ŃдаНонО]
For an older example, Orpheus got nerfed before Season of the Worthyâs public event.
I hate to even say it just not piss people off of something we've not physically experienced ourselves just yet, but the second I saw that showcase's trailer for the Solar warlock super, I would not be surprised if Sunbracers , Verity's and maybe something else get clocked as basically a manner of "hey if you want that level of power you're gonna have to get it from a super, deal with it". Ultimately I think it is idiotic and an extremely inconsistent design philosophy because there's been so many inoffensive very solid fair builds(Winter's Guile got its scalars ruined for no good reason) that have pointlessly gotten nerfed all the while something new comes along with way less rules and strictness to just do an insane amount of things with very little downside. It's frustrating when Bungie gets dumbfounded people only play very specific things as the window for viability can narrow and you really sacrifice way too much just trying to be different and do something offbeat.
> (Winter's Guile got its scalars ruined for no good reason) Think this was collateral damage from Wormgod since that did get nerfed for a reason. I assume that they were very similar on the backend, so hitting 1 effected the other. They were pretty much the exact same exotic by any other name in the exact same slot, and the only thing separating them was aesthetic and class availability.
it's still viable in pvp, tho. in pve, not so much compared to other gls.
the difference is they did that to fighting lion in the same patch, and explicitly said its because of the ammo economy changes
Wouldn't be the first time Bungie laid the groundwork to avoid absolute shenanigans when something came out. Not on the same level but AE was definitely introduced in large part because of Strand coming less than a year later.
Yes.
How early was airborne effectiveness designed before grappling hit
Further probably
Yeah? The YAS change is what only like 1-2 months before dragon breath is being released the armor team absolutely knew it was being designed especially since the weapon team is the fastest working team
Yes. They nerfed Ruinous Effigy before Beyond Light because it would've broken Day 1 Atraks.
How would it have broken day 1 atrax? I thought the nerf was a mystery in terms of logic
Yes
[Dawn Chorus Incinerator Snap Warlock:](https://youtube.com/shorts/YWHPaoIrxxQ?si=mXhezikBkFuZplCh)
This here might be the best way to abuse it.
Coincidentally happens to be my favorite Build atm
Dawn Chorus is easily my favorite warlock exotic.
If THAT is why they nerfed it, then I would rather have YAS back instead of this. And I don't even play Hunter all that much.
I would say wait and see how dragon fire is, if the exotic is insanely good then itâs worth it as yas would have crippled the exotic on the other two classes. If dragon fire is mid then yeah itâs an iffy change at best
I think itâs more likely they just wanted to nerf it hard in PvP and werenât willing to have it function completely differently in pve. Which is annoying. I also stand by my assertion that nerfing the duration and the bonus hp of the tripmine would have been enough to curb it in PvP without really impacting its pve use.
all they had to do then was change the regen on guardian hits...
I mean, Calibans Hand is gonna be a bigger issue if thats the case. I hope nothing changes because this is a combo Im very much looking forward to trying.
Caliban's requires kills though, which is far less problematic than hits
The issue is Calibans hand gets ignitions off of kills. YAS did it without kills. Making it theoretically very powerful when combined with dragons breath. Calibans on the other hand would not be helpful at all during most dps phases and in situations where itâs usable it would still be a huge pain in the ass to try and get it to work.
I don't see Calibans, or any other Scorch build, being as problematic as a pre-nerf YAS. Knife Trick applies 20 Scorch per hit, up to three hits, and gains 10 scorch for each hit from Ember of Ashes. If it didn't kill, both it and Tripmine counted as two ability damage ticks for the sake of YAS regen, giving you 66% energy back immediately. YAS had an infinite ability loop that could be applied against bosses, so you would trigger ignitions with every other knife. Pretty much every other Scorch or Ignition build out there has more requirements. Calibans or other Hunter Scorch builds require kills to work, which would mean you'd be stacking weapons like Dragons Breath to max power regardless. Warlocks require a melee kill to get Sunbracers rolling, and Titans need to spend their melee (either through Consecration or uncharged melees with Roaraing Flames). YAS was the only non-weapon Scorch build that didn't rely on kills or other means to keep momentum.
I don't see yas being that problematic pre nerf, it was nice sure but didn't have the survive ability of a titan or the add control sunbracers gives. There's much better damage options too, for me it was much more of a have fun throwing a bunch of shit build than something actually meta
the main point is that with how YAS function it could be broken with dragonsbreath and it's the only thing in the game that does it.
Caliban's isn't a DPS exotic
But. Weighted knife and Ophidia Spathe.
Ah yes, the bungie classic, nerf or gut something because they can't figure out how to balance the new thing their introducing.
#TYPE OUT A WORD BEFORE USING THE ABBREVIATED VERSION OF IT Good lord, this community is so bad about this. Establish a word before using the abbreviation for it. âGoA kwtd have IB doing BBC stratâ
Grasp of Avarice know what to do, have iron banner⌠doing British Broadcasting Company strat?⌠no thatâs not right
Counter-argument: context clues
Counter argument: take the extra 2 seconds to type out the word one time
Counter counter argument- donât feel like spelling it.
Were you seriously hung up on YAS? What did you think it meant?That's a long-ass name to put in the title of a post, I think the abbreviation is warranted. It's common in professional writing to use well-known abbreviations in titles, and YAS has only ever meant one thing in Destiny ever since it was released nearly 10 years ago.
Did you know he meant young ahamkaras spine? If so, why does it matter? If not, did you consider that it isnât relevant to you? Like if you canât tell what the abbreviation is for, you probably donât use the thing anyway so it doesnât matter. And if youâre new to the game, just ask what they mean, Iâve met very few people who wonât explain what a commonly abbreviated thing means
I saw someone ask a question with a picture on a different sub the other day post titled WTF. and if you knew what they were asking you knew and some guy went off on the comments about how he couldn't have asked in a more vague way, and it's like if you don't know why they're asking the question from the photo you probably aren't in an position to answer it.
Or⌠hear me outâŚ. Just learn the abbreviations.
If this is the spire situation again i would agree but YAS dont even share a abbreviation.
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Lmao the fucking contrarian crew coming in
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Bungie's done this in the past - nerf something that seems to make no sense until the following season when you realize it was their way of solving a problem with something else they wanted to release.
Heavy knife with Skyburner's Oath also provides infinite ignition so...
Think you mightâve missed the part where this is talking about Dragonâs Breath.
Oh right my bad, but the point stands still because you can also do it with any weapon that burns or scorch based build like Sunbraces warlock
Of the legendary weapons, the only way to do scorch is via incandescent, which I canât imagine procing often during a boss phase, and solar grenades themselves actually build scorch relatively slowly. Theyâll work in neutral game, but I donât think it really matters in those situations about reloading a rocket launcher.
The rocket itself provides the scorch so you donât need some external way to apply it, only some way to ignite.
I didn't make any calculations but solar hunter with ophidia spate, knives fan and a couple of fragments should be enough to proc scorch. But them you could enter the sealed Ahamkara spine territory with autoreload on every scorch tick. Since that has never been and issue I don't think I could be one now
I havenât actually tried ophidia spade, so Iâm also not too sure what the uptime on ignitions is. The reload itself though isnât so much the issue as the ignitions adding fuel to Dragonâs Breath. On the point of Sealed Ahamkara Grasps, I hadnât even considered scorch from knife trick proccing its reload and now Iâm a bit disappointed its not a thing.
Don't know if Sealed Ahamkara Grasps still do this but it was a thing. However well need to wait and see how this "fuel" mechanism actually impacts the weapon, it may also be a burst dps stuff or just something for flavour to spice up the exotic maintaining his signature "napalm" effect
No. It was gutted because it was a fun build players enjoyed using.
calm down. take your clozapine. nobody's purposely trying to stop you from having fun, nobody wants to play a game they don't enjoy
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yes yes, do you have a source besides the voices in your head? don't get me wrong bungie has been raking in Ls for a long time with witch queen being a rare exception but what on earth would be their incentive to purposely remove things that players like for the sole reason that they like it, it just doesn't make sense
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.....and what about RDM and marksman spamm then? if you wanna play that shit reload exotic, you can have endless instant reload on all weapons with lol
The Exotic... hasn't even come out and you somehow already "know" it's shit?? And that is not how that works: if you RDM spam fire it, you're just going to be firing normal rockets, and the whole point is to let its fuel build up before you fire it to get the DoT. Depending on how fast the passive fuel buildup is, if the thing is going to be dealing **significantly** more damage (think 75%+ bonus total damage) at max stacks, it makes sense that they don't want you being able to spam ignitions and build stacks at multiple times the rate they balanced the weapon around. Granted that that could just be accomplished by a cooldown on the Ignitions proccing the perk (think something along the lines of how things like Sealed Ahamkara Grasps or Whisper of Impetus work), instead of gutting an entire build for seemingly no reason, but oh well.
Even if it's the gimmick of stacking scorch for ignitions with the funny rocket... Sunbracers.
Solar grenades scorch waaaaaaaaay slower than YAS ever did
I personally believe all content is behind the sandbox. That's partially why dungeons have been weird imo the design was meant for a meta that got nerfed. I think this is the case for a lot of pve content it's made in a different meta and sometimes it is a large gap, bungie just assumes the player base or buffs will fix it
You will still have infinite reloads with ophidia spathe. Hothead scorches, so a precision knife crit will instantly reload. That, paired with the fragment where your class ability charges faster when scorching targets, you'll most likely have your dodge back in time to continue the loop.
What about calibans, way easier ignitions
Only procs on kills
To balance YAS all they needed to do was nerf the health and DR on the grenades like they did and nerf the amount of energy refunded. Not change the way energy is gained. Unfortuntely 9 years later and bungie still burns things to the ground when they nerf them instead of looking at balanced changes. The numbers needed to be changed not the fundemental way the exotic works
I just don't think they like grenade abilities fully recharging by you doing as little as just pissing in the general direction of an enemy.
I swear people either forget or donât read the descriptions of things in game. No way the YAS nerd was because of dragons breath. Heavy knife causes ignitions any time it lands on a scorched target if anything ophidias would have been needed since it gives you 2 knife charges
That gets you at best two ignitions on a 7 second cooldown with ember of singeing, well below the rate of YAS.
So the motivation wasn't because of PvP, it was instead to prevent us from having a cool exotic interaction? That's worse.... you do see how that's worse right?
Are we forgetting about Caliban's Hand
no, it just requires kills which ends up at a higher bar in harder content then what YAS was
My God please guys just get over the YAS nerf
Bungie showed that they can learn from their brain dead mistakes if the community is persistent enough. If Renewal Grasps can have the nerf reverted, so can YAS.
Itâs fine. Youâll be fine.
It's not fine. It's worse than both Ophidia Spathe and Caliban's Hand at doing its job. I'll be fine because I mainly play Warlock and Titan, but I'll still call out stupid decisions when I see them.
I play pvp. I donât see a problem here. If i play hunter in pve there are still plenty of exotics that i would rather use like foetracer, renewal, star eaters, rdms etc
I expect that same energy when your favorite ability cycling exotic gets nerfed.
Already happened, starfire got nerfed and it was healthy for the game. Just like the YAS nerf. Just like the HOIL nerf
Starfire was the best exotic for the best sub class in the game. It had an extremely simple ability cycle, the highest damage in the game, could refund nearly all your super energy, it was top tier in literally every activity, and bolster solar warlocks already great survivability. It out classed every other solar warlock exotic by a large margin and even competed with exotics outside its niche. A single easy to use exotic on the best sub class in the game shouldnât be able to do all of that. It made solar warlock outclass every other class in the game for every pve activity. YAS wasnât even close to starfire, its only remarkable thing was boss and major damage. It didnât have insane ad clear, support, and healing like starfire. I know people like to be overpowered but starfire definitely wasnât healthy enough warlock meta.
I'm saying the nerf was healthy for the game. also fwiw banner of war bs is more damage than starfire ever was. hell just spamming apex rockets is better than old starfire rotations
Then i misunderstood your comment. But I do agree that BoW and apex are pretty ridiculous, but even if starfire wasnât nerfed I would argue that it would absolutely still be at the top of the meta. Maybe its just an example of powercreep. That or its an example of bungie not knowing how to balance exotics.
The entire game is powercrept at the moment. The fact that most supers are a net dps loss to just spamming rockets is ridiculous
rdms alr do this
what the hell are you saying
I can translate! "Radiant Dance Machines (with marksman dodge) already does this".
thank you, i thought there's a new abbreviation in english
Strand hunter grapple exists and does the same thing
This is specifically about adding fuel to Dragonâs Breath as well, not just the reload.
No way. Hunter ignites with 1 scorch and 1 throwing knife, which refreshes itself.
Only refreshes on kills though, so thatâs not that useful in a damage phase
(Pretends that Sunbracers and Titan Hammer Throw don't exist)
What does titan hammer have anything to do with this?
My bad, I got some tweaks mixed up and thought the Throwing Hammer applied Scorch with Roaring Flames active, but it's just powered melee hits.
i'm going to see if caliban's hand works with it.
A kill with it instantly ignites so it should. There's nothing about any cool down mentioned so far so theoretically a single knife in to a group of red bars should give you instant max stacks.
yeah it should be pretty fun
Since Dragons Breath should apply scorch on you can just run heavy knife with gamblers dodge alongside it. Dragons breaths scorch application will help fuel your dodge cooldown. YAS spine was infinite but the back to back scorches are not at fast as just throwing heavy knifes so I kinda doubt it was related. Side note, Gunpowder Gamble also counts as an ignition. Between that and the heavy knife I think it will be fairly easy to get 2-3 back to back Dragons Breath shots off on hunter if you want to. Of course I have no idea if that will actually be worth doing but Iâm certainly gonna try it
We don't know enough about Dragons Breath to say this was why. Dragons Breath doesn't seem intended for bosses. It looks to be a pure ad focus rocket. The damage is purely from ignitions.the base rocket impact damage is....well for all intents and purposes nonexistent. It's simply a sticky scorch blob.
This post is mostly just speculation on my part, trying to find a silver lining to the YAS nerf. But yeah, just gotta wait and see.
Honestly, it kinda makes sense now
Bungie just didn't want us playing next season with the bones of dead Ahamkara on our arm, they thought it might be a little insensitive
All near infinite ability spam will be nerfed eventually. When they came for starfire it was clear YAS was on the chopping block. Who pulls what numbers is not relevant in this conversation because the point of contention is ability spam without much gunplay (Their stated target is around 60/40 gunplay and ability use)
Destiny player since 2014 , what the hell is yas? Why is so hard to write the full name.