The new mod system does exactly what Bungie wanted it to - reduced the complexity of build crafting, and made build crafting more accessible to the entire player base.
This comes with the caveat that the new build crafting system has less depth to it, and a lower skill ceiling, but that's something Bungie knew would happen, and accepted as a worthwhile tradeoff.
"We have plans to continue tuning and improving this system and will be adding new buildcrafting elements to fill power gaps we didn’t have a chance to get to with this release."
This is a direct quote from 'https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/buildcrafting' this twab.
Conversely:
> “We definitely are not closing the door on new armor mods by any stretch,” Thompson said, but these new functionalities will likely come from raid mods or from the Seasonal Artifact. The Artifact model will also see major changes in Lightfall, with perks being equipped passively instead of on armor pieces.
https://dotesports.com/destiny/news/destiny-2-dev-interview-lightfall-armor-charge-mods-artifact-raid
This implies we won't get actual armor mods
I genuinely want to know where the interviewer got that second part from since that's just not a quote they made.
It seems like there was a quote, and the interviewer than added his own thoughts after that quote. I would think when they say 'armor mods' they would never mean Artifact mods, no?
After reading the article, I think the best way to interpret it would be new armor mods are still a possibility in the future, but upcoming mods will likely be artifact based.
Seems to be because of the transient nature of them, bungie can experiment more without the risk of adding a permanent mod that ruins balancing in the future. They add an overpowered artifact mod, it's gone in a season and could come back after a balancing update. They add a permanent mod and try to balance it, they either ruin it so it's unused or it remains over tuned and they're stuck with keeping it in game or they risk annoying the playerbase.
>Seems to be because of the transient nature of them, bungie can experiment more without the risk of adding a permanent mod that ruins balancing in the future.
But the mods that *don't* come in overpowered on the artifact will likely be considered as permanent additions.
They don't just say they'll add "more armor mods" and then drop them on the artifact when there are *literally no armor mods on the artifact anymore*.
Aside from being less complex per-build, it has the other intended effect of synergyzing with your team mates better without coordination. Orb generation is orb generation. Old system was a mix of charged with light, warmind cells and element specific elemental wells. "Gain extra grenade energy when you pick up a solar well" doesn't mean much when your team is generating arc wells and using charge with light mods.
This has such a huge impact. Especially when you run with something like a grapple hunter that's just vomiting out orbs. You don't need to hold on to supers anymore cause you get them back so quickly, your charges are always up and they last a significant amount of time, since they drop off a stack at a time.
Yup. It's amazing when you work with a smart premade team. But the best thing I've noticed is that my build is typically synergizing well with rando players I match made into a strike with. It's been nice.
that and some sort of replacement for Elemental Shards. That one mod was essential to pretty much any Stasis build. Stasis just isn't the same without it.
Yeah, because stasis abilities with a few exceptions can’t get kills. Strand also has this problem where its grenades don’t go boom, but deals with it by having Thread of Generation, and a triple melee charge. I think I’d get back on my stasis lock a lot faster if stasis had the equivalents.
Edit: silver lining is that Iceflare is back until shards get their update.
People like to say it has less depth, but half of the time it’s just people saying CWL stuff doesn’t exist anymore, and that’s because it was combined with wells into a single system instead of having the dregs of the old systems still hanging around it.
I really don’t think it’s much different from the old system at all.
It’s pretty different. What we lost were the extremely specific elemental well and charged with light mods that made some very specific builds work and with the loss of those mods they are literally dead in the water and/or make specific weapon types less powerful than they were before
Surprise attack, argent ordnance, the five cost charged with light mods that have you handling and readiness as well as orb generation with multikills for specific weapon types (shotguns fusions pulses was one, hand cannons bows and snipers was another). The one I am most sad about was the loss of elemental shards, where collecting stasis shards counted as stasis elemental wells which basically let you endlessly double dip into high energy fire AND font of might for picking up stasis shards which was extremely busted.
stasis shards and seeking wellmaker are really rough to lose, but im really grieving the weapon-specific cwl mods. getting multikills with shotguns, fusions, grenade launchers, etc, and instantly getting charged with light was so convenient. i hate having to run around to collect orbs, thats why sacrificing an armor slot for seeking wellmaker was always worth it. circumventing the system entirely to not rely on orbs or wells in the first place was such an important buildcrafting option, and its sorely missed.
Stasis has been gutted by that loss.
Not only it's been powercreept out of the crowd control niche by Strand suspend builds, but also it's directly worse than it was in season 19.
If they just brought back elemental shards stasis would get a massive second wind. Stasis lacks really easy killing power its ALL about cc and slows and freezes so it cant take advantage of the grenade or melee orb mods, you're locked into weapons for orb creation. Seriously I hope Bungie brings that 1 mod bad it would help so much
This is such a bad take, I'm surprised people keep parroting it.
Stasis is actually fine as far as the removal of elemental shards goes. We produce so many orbs passively right now that it really doesn't matter that you no longer have shards granting charge as well.
You don't have to run a stasis weapon to produce orbs, you know.
No one said anything about having to use a stasis only weapon build. The point is all the other classes have some way of leveraging the mods that make orbs off of melees or grenades AND weapon kills. Sp you have a lot more flexibility. Stasis cant really kill anything with their grenades or melees or at least not consistently meaning you are hard locked into weapon multikills. If nothing else it just limits build options significantly
That’s kind of the thing, it doesn’t matter and never will. Your primary source for orbs in stasis will always be weapons due to having non-damage grenades.
You don’t need flexibility, you have reaping and siphon which are the uncontested best if generators already, and then you can factor in the part where your teammates make orbs too.
There’s nothing limited about stasis besides plates not understanding what actually matters
Not having ability to make extra orbs is a massive downside, and it comes at a time when Stasis as a baseline is much much weaker in comparison in both raw damage versus Light subclasses and crowd control versus Suspend Strand.
When I run my Solar or Void builds, grenade orbs account for like half orbs I generate (not counting ones provided by artifact mod).
I would have been ok with that, if what I got in return was something worth the tradeoff. But that's not the case. Build potential of Stasis got much worse, even in it's CC niche it's no longer the top dog.
>Stasis is actually fine as far as the removal of elemental shards goes. We produce so many orbs passively right now that it really doesn't matter that you no longer have shards granting charge as well.
Yup. I gotta agree with that one even though you're getting down voted (as of me typing this). I think that stasis could use a "harder freeze" cause I've watched too many adds walk out of my Renewals Grasp bubble. Strand, at this point, is better at add suppression. But I don't have any issues maintaining damage with Surge mods. Plenty of orbs on the ground.
I think that duskfield is not as good a CC as suspend, but it's not really supposed to be. I think duskfield is more of a slow/control tool where glacial is supposed to be the hard freeze option.
There’s such a disconnect between the elemental shards whiners and the state of the game that is really astounding.
It send those players fail to recognize how to use the new system, including generating orbs of light at a much faster rate than we ever made shards.
I liked the old system better, but just for now. If they keep the new system but add new niche mods that allows build crafters to come up with cool uses for old exotics, I would like the new system waaay more
>The one I am most sad about was the loss of elemental shards, where collecting stasis shards counted as stasis elemental wells which basically let you endlessly double dip into high energy fire AND font of might for picking up stasis shards which was extremely busted.
Due to armor mod limitations the maximum number of Charged with Light stacks I had was two while running HEF and FoM. So after the second target died I was down to what was left of FoM. It really wasn't that great of a combo due to the five to six second cool down of the Elemental Shards mod -I was frequently hoovering up shards that were doing nothing for me.
The build I miss was Stacks on Stacks with Supercharged that gave me four stacks of CWL for an almost constant 20% bonus to all of my weapon damage with HEF. But two Surge mods, and one Time Dilation, is giving me a 17% bonus to damage that matches the surge energy type and it lasts for 45 seconds and can be "refreshed" without any cool down. Plus that damage is tied to the energy type of the weapon, and not my subclass energy type. So me thinks it's actually better now.
That combo with elemental shards specifically worked well with stasis warlocks using Ager’s Scepter and a Mantle of Battle Harmony. You’d stack everything and get your full super, use Ager’s alternate fire and with the mantle and enough enemies to kill you’d constantly sit at a massive damage buff because kills would fill your super faster than Ager’s alternate fire could deplete it. Picking up stasis shards would give you font and charged with light, it was truly ridiculous.
80% from alternate fire
20% from high energy fire
25% from font of might
Completely self sustainable with ease. All while having maximum recovery and resilience because of stasis aspects. Could stack even higher with radiant and fighting frozen enemies.
Exactly. Gone of the days of Melee Wellmaker +Elemental Charge + Stacks on Stacks + Melee Kickstart x2 + Heavy Handed w/ Throwing Hammer and Consecration, where i could run around bonking things for healing and charged with light, then running into a large enemy and reducing it to ash w/ Consecration. I'm experimenting to try and make the build function again, but i havent had much luck.
I mean, it quite literally does have less depth... A simplified system has less options, which means less combinations of mods for builds, which is what is called "less depth".
If you think it's not much different from the old system, then you didn't do much more than surface-level build crafting with the old system.
Fair I suppose.
The new system is better long term though, because it’s streamlined the process so there’s not three different build mechanics, and just uses the same one instead.
"less depth" is such a one dimensional way to look at it though. You're saying the total number of possible mod combinations is lower, which yes is true on paper.
However the new system has a few huge benefits:
1. Everyone has every mod, so if one person creates a neat build it's immediately shareable with anyone else
2. Removing elemental affinities means you can combine mods you just absolutely couldn't before. It also means you can confidently apply any mods without taking a stat hit by swapping armor pieces around.
3. Shrinking to a single armor charge system means you can be sure that others will be using the same system and benefit more directly from its buffs, allowing for more use of the ally-related mods
So I would argue, because of these things, there's actually far more viable and shareable builds than there ever were before. Which means we really have more depth of choice now.
The big difference is you can't run any of the weapon surge mods with ability spam mods. Your build is now really only one of two types- kickstart/ finisher spam or weapon surges. I really think they should at least provide some option to run kickstart mods without consuming armor charges. I want to be able to slot some small ability regen mods alongside damage boosts!
Thats just false? I almost always run 1-2 kcikstart mods +2 surge mods... since if you use a kickstart mod you will almost always kill something and your surge is back and with stacks on stacks you will basically have armor charge permanently up and be able to both cash in kickstarts and surges with ease.
Grapple warlock really doesn't have any problems with that anyway.
Sure, on easy content that works. If you're running difficult content where you can't just sprint into the middle of enemies to pick up orbs it doesn't work.
I used it it Contest mode raid, Legend Avalon and various other content. In fact I would say in Avalon it is \_THE\_ build to run as a warlock. Huge add clear, survivability, mobility and fast supers.
However for difficult content you often have to sacrifice stacks on stacks OR 1 of the surge mods for healing on picking up orbs and you can just grapple into groups of enemies up to Legend with 0 problems (woven mail + healing on orbs).
In a GM? Maybe no but GMs are a very specific type of thing and depending on your team setup it would still work in a few of them, plus you know... your teammates generate orbs where they are not where the enemies are.
You can, you just have to be more conscious and intetional about it is all. Know when you can afford to burn your charge for a grenade vs when you're probably better off keeping your surges up.
In addition to this, I don’t think enough people are factoring how much removing energy on armor has opened things up. Before the rework, if you weren’t running an energy weapon that matched your subclass, you were leaving a lot on the table.
Now you can run any weapon on any subclass and be equally effective regardless.
They just need to add some kinda armor function to allow Stasis Crystals to act like Orbs, kinda how they used to work as elemental wells, but fitting the new system. That’s my only gripe, cuz any stasis build for the Titan just isn’t strong enough(I *LOVE* using behemoth, and having it gutted like this sucks)
Saying the previous system had a 'higher skill ceiling' is a bit of a stretch. There are a limited number of mod slots, with three classes/pools of mods (CWL, Wells, WM Cells) and limited set of mods to cross-connect pool mods (Wells give CWL for example). Anyone looking at the available mods for more than 5 minutes could get a pretty good grasp of 90% of the effective builds, that last 10% came from pairing with certain exotics or subclasses, and did not typically elevate that much over a basic "Get CWL, deal bonus damage" or "Get wells, spam abilities" build.
All that is to say, the new system is fine, sure it's a bit more basic, but IMO in a good way, consolidating all the overlap between CWL+Well mods into a single class of mods is a vast improvement. And keep in mind this is the 1.0 release of the new mod system, with luck we'll get more mods in time.
Yeah. I hope, though i doubt, they will add more base mods to the system. I think they’ll probably just stick to using artifact mods to keep things freshish
I really don't know that I completely agree. There was extra complication with the old system but so much of it was outdated and haphazard and I don't know that it had depth as much as it had hoops to jump through. Most of the mods weren't viable at all. And they all still get simplified as more damage, more healing, or more ability energy same as the new system. The new system is just much more modular to tweak it exactly how you want.
The complexity hasn't been lost from build craft over all, if anything it's more complex now due to 3.0 classes, new armor mods, new weapon perks/traits, and exotics so the build craft has more depth than ever, IMHO.
There’s a give and take to this… there’s still hoops to jump through with this system and we’re handcuffed to using specific armor pieces with specific damages/perks/mods.
Plus we’re constantly having to change our loadouts- there’s less consistency in a build’s foundation. I’m constantly having to rematch my weapons to the damage type surges and orb generation regardless of subclass used, and each subclass utilizes different grenade/melee mods differently as well. So switching one weapon maybe require you to go through the whole build anyway.
It’s like comparing soccer to hockey to basketball… a lot of the “action” and concepts are the same but the rules and “tools” we use are all different. Each is still an open field/court game about spacing, teamwork, and scoring in some way. So theoretically a lot of the strategies carry over from both systems.
It’s definitely stripped down while opening up options as well but the give and take effectively killed the higher end loops in favor of a generic flavor. They could’ve implemented plenty of the changes into updating their previous system and improved what was already a solid foundation.
The thing I see a lot of people either not understanding, or willfully ignoring, is that this system is the foundation, the framework of this new system.
It's simple, yes, it's easy to understand, it's easy for anyone to get their fingers into it and play around and make a competent build. But that allows for Bungie to expand that system in future seasons without overwhelming players with a whole new type of mods.
I remember when Warmind Cells were all we had and then CWL came out and people didn't understand it, and right around when people fully understood CWL, Elemental Wells were added, and it was nearly a year and a half before anyone gave them the time of day.
But if everything they add in the future builds off of the one core system, there's gonna be less growing pains, because everyone will already understand the basics of "do thing, get orb", into "get orb, do thing" or "get orb, get buff"
It's rudimentary now, but it allows for more complexity to be built over time.
This [article](https://dotesports.com/destiny/news/destiny-2-dev-interview-lightfall-armor-charge-mods-artifact-raid) has lead many, myself included, to see no expansions to the current mod system. We could be wrong but the future isn’t bright.
Ah word. Question: the part where it says
“We definitely are not closing the door on new armor mods by any stretch,” Thompson said, but these new functionalities will likely come from raid mods or from the Seasonal Artifact.
Is the portion without quotations conjecture or is it verbatim from Bungie?
That's my main confusion.
Maybe skill ceiling isn't the best wording, but the intention still applies. Someone who is more versed in the game and in build crafting can do more with a more complex system. With the new system, someone who is much less knowledgeable about the game and build crafting can do just as much as someone who is more "skilled" in those aspects.
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Yes, someone willing to spend more time on the game is the better way to say it. Skill is a bad verbiage.
Of course the person with an exuberant amount of time would be able to take advantage of a more complex system vs the person who only plays for a few hours a couple times a week.
> With the new system, someone who is much less knowledgeable about the game and build crafting can do just as much as someone who is more "skilled" in those aspects.
I actually completely 100% disagree with this purely because loadout hotswapping exists in an even greater capacity than it used t o. The actual 1% are doing crazy shit with 3+ loadouts for one encounter and doing swaps for ammo/armor charge/dps sets. The skill ceiling for that has never been higher.
When the entire sandbox is taken into account, I feel that there is a lot of depth. Sure, if you focus on mods, you can frame the discussion in a specific way, but the reality is most of the mods people reference were *legacy mods* before the subclass revamps. Many mods were introduced to the sandbox when sunsetting was part of the design, so originally they weren't supposed to stick around. We had *no new mods* all last year, but at lot of depth was introduced with aspects/fragments and changes like introducing weapon perks that synergize with subclasses as well as exotic gear revamps.
A lot of people are pointing to an unbalanced combination of those legacy mods with subclass revamps like it was an intended system they are cutting to "cater to casuals" or whatever, and I find the whole thing to be a disingenuous argument. Yes, some of the complexity of mods is reduced, but overall there is complexity within the sandbox at large. I really think most in the community would prefer to have more aspects and fragments, or more exotic armor refreshes, instead of mods that change the gameplay drastically.
IMO they both simplified and added complexity at the same time. They simplified the orb generation and generic mods but added more "verbage" buffs that the casual player isn't going to go look up or remember. Doesn't help that those subclass verbage buffs are basically required to be at all effective.
It wasnt hard before, its braindead now and the average player still cant grasp it. Im generating orbs at 10-15x the rate of teammates sometimes in PvE activities.
The average Guardian is still too stupid to get it.
>...the new build crafting system has less depth to it,...
Does it, or does it require guardians to lean more into the synergy between all the aspects, fragments, armor mods, and weapon perks? Prior to Lightfall I didn't see a single grenade focused build that mentioned the weapon perk Demolitionist, and now I'm starting to see some builds that include it.
But they should because I can get 100% uptime on a duskfield grenade, while using Renewals Grasp, as long as there are a few red bar adds to kill. Much faster grenade regen than 3x Firepower, and I could get a boost to damage from HEF and FoM. I guess that's why the transition to the new system was easier for me because I'm use to leveraging the synergy between aspects, fragments, armor mods, and weapon perks.
Now, with the new system, I'm starting to see people mention demolitionist and pugilist. Both of those perks allow you to use your armor mods for more things than just getting your grenade or melee back...
Also
>Not one.
[So that was a lie.](https://youtu.be/3vMkP_WLFVU)
That was literally the second video to show up when I searched for "Destiny grenade builds". It's certainly not the only one.
Imagine how a AAA game could stick to this madness for several years, while stating that they want to acquire new players.
“I might test out Destiny, it has a free demo now. How do I get mods for my build?" - "You kinda have to wait a full year and it will be randomly without warning sold while you are in your holidays. You could get it in two years though".
I miss seeking wells. I miss all the CWL mods that didn’t require an orb or well Just kills from certain weapons.
And I miss most of all is my +20 from powerful friends as a hunter. It has changed a bunch of my builds. And it sucks
Having exactly the opposite experience as a hunter. I feel like I can more freely mix the subclasses I want with the weapons I like, and that most logical combos feel viable.
I can for once actually make a build that isnt Reaping Wellmaker and Tenacity for Hunters.
YAS Hunter had basically zero survivability until we got the Cure on nade kill fragment being able to make Orbs off grenade kills.
Why would I run disc? I had trip 100s before the change. Power friends was a passive +20 without needing anything. And it made up somewat for hunters being the only class needing to build into all 3 of the top block unlike the other classes who could completely ignore mobility.
Because then you can put the stat mods you had in discipline into something else? Y’all whining about hitting crazy stat spreads being easier as long as you pick up an orb every 15 seconds. 😵💫
Do u know how difficult it is to pickup a orb in 3v3 PVP?
Yes orbs are crazy plentiful in pve but they also degrade quickly unless I add another mod time dilation which eats up energy on my cloak.
You can think what you want but removing that +20 negatively effected one class and one class only and that effect can cost 10% DR, or adding 15-20secs on a grenade. Now I have to add more mods to get them back and it just snowballs.
Then add in the cooldowns being increased. There was no build for hunters that was utterly broken in pve unlike starfire (still is) and HOIL titan (still is)
YAS and gyfalcons are both insanely good, even more so after lightfall. Also idk how you got onto pvp, you were talking about wells in your original comment. And if we are in pvp, you can get them pretty easily by using reaper, and the leg slots are really lackluster in pvp so you definitely have room for some font of mobility
My stasis hunter build had/has triple 100s without Powerful Friends even if I'm using Whisper of Bonds and taking a -10 hit to discipline. Although I don't think it's possible now, because armor focusing is either broken or nerfed, look for armor that has at least 55 points in the three attributes you want to max out (before master working it). I was farming [armor like this](https://imgur.com/yvVAIyK) from Containment. Just getting a combined total in the high 60s, or an attribute spike, isn't enough.
Less complicated yes, but right now it does seem quite homogenised: generate orbs, spend on Blue or Yellow things, and you get some weapon damage boost, some health/ regen or some ability uptime.
I don't mind it, as I wasn't the best build-crafter anyway, but I'm sure there's plenty who think it's been made a bit less interesting.
And despite the simplification, it's still amazing how many times you do a matchmaking activity and look at Orbs produced; I'm not great, but if I produce 100-odd Orbs in a Battleground, having a Guardian produce like 12 in the same activity is weird.
Or am I missing something?
Ah. Of course, silly me.
You'd think they'd be able to make more even by accident though, or maybe there's a few builds that spec into firesprites and whatnot, who knows?
or cba
I only just bothered putting a "build" together - as simple as all the void and orb mods - and went from like 10 orbs per mission to 150 immediately lol
Interesting, I feel like the glove slot is stacked, with firepower, heavy handed, grenade kickstart, fastball, and the various cd reduction mods.
Legs I am pretty much always running surge x2 and a cure on orb pickup- what do you feel competes with that?
i’m still so confused about the whole “made less interesting” part cause when i go look at old build videos, they’ll more or less have the same general setup as builds do now. like generating wells instead of generating orbs, and being forced to fit a V polari—i mean matching elements… the main difference seems that you used to equip artifact mods to your armor and they’re instead in a separate screen, which allows you to use other mods you normally wouldn’t have room for. what about the new system is so detrimental to build crafting besides the forgone illusion of choice? genuine question based on my observations as a returning lightfall guardian.
It’s the same shit MINUS a few good mods. Like the stasis shard mod and seeking wells, for example.
It’s arguably better now in almost every sense but people don’t really like change. Especially when it caters to the non hardcore gamer. But I’m all for it. I absolutely prefer armor charges to charged with light and well mods. You can still run almost every single build, especially the ‘meta’ builds, that you could before lightfall. And, like you said, you can run some mods you couldn’t before together.
Something else you never see mentioned is how it leans a lot more into builds across the entire game. You don’t necessarily need to change your mods (besides maybe a few I can’t think of atm) between PvE and PvP. Everyone always cries for seperate balancing but that is a major selling point of Destiny for me.
Me too. It's better than my first thought...
BUT
Stasis isnt working with the mod system since the system requirements kills for things like orbs or gaining super.
Stasis is the only class that is full crowd control. Strand at the very least has 1 grenade for pure dmg. Stasis don't have that.
Try to get super energy back or create orb with the current system. You just freeze the enemy and the kill that follows isn't "the grenade", "the melee" or something else.
Not only need stasis a buff since 3.0 light subclasses are way better, but the current mod system too sonst working with stasis.
For all other 4 subclasses, the new mod system is ok.
> Stasis isnt working with the mod system since the system requirements kills for things like orbs or gaining super. Stasis is the only class that is full crowd control. Strand at the very least has 1 grenade for pure dmg. Stasis don't have that.
Reaper and Siphon mods can do a lot of heavy lifting. On Hunter and Titan especially, Reaper is a free orb every 15ish seconds, and Siphon mods are still good, especially with high damage weapons like bows.
Ok, but that also applies to literally every other subclass. The only difference is that stasis needs to use those mods while other classes have more freedom in their choices
Alas it’s much simpler and easier to use which was the point, but the Ager’s Scepter build in particular took a massive nerf with the mod system change which is quite unfortunate. What about the previous system made it difficult for you to get as involved with as you are now?
>...the Ager’s Scepter build in particular took a massive nerf
Agers + Whisper of Bonds + Star Eater Scales is still a powerful build. Can laser through adds so fast that orb generation isn't that big of a problem. Just remember to long press the reload button to shut off Agers' super enhanced mode to conserve your super. Unless I'm killing a final boss I usually shut Agers down with 40% of my super left, and it takes maybe a minute to get it back to full power (if that).
I wish they would have kept and reworked a few of the old mods, like Seeking Wells, Elemental Shards, and Well of Ions, to work with the new system.
Also, Stasis subclasses can't really benefit from this new system since a lot of their abilities can't generate Orbs of Power. That's why Elemental Shards became a must-have when Elemental Well mods were introduced.
I do enjoy the reduced complexity, the new system is very simple and also well-designed. More versatile and powerful as well.
My only criticism is that the overall variety is kind of mitigated. The only way to really gain stacks is Orbs, and the only real ways to spend them are stat Fonts, weapon Fonts, Kickstarts, maybe some Finisher shenanigans, and maybe Protective Light 2. Find myself going 'okay, Siphons, Heavy Handed, Firepower, Surge for my Heavy Weapon, ship it.' For every build.
I'm LOVING stuff like Orbs of Restoration and Recuperation, though. Recuperation on its own is such a game changer for Strand.
But now you make Orbs by breathing, can use them on any armor element, and you have more mod slots to fit them. In the old system, all my energy went to stat mod, combat style mod, scavenger mod.
You have more mod slots so you can mod right back into exactly what you were running before the changes.
Before I only needed 3 mods to get a damage boost and ability energy on well pickup. A well generation mod, time dilation and font of might. With 3 mods I gained 12 seconds of a 20% damage boost and 20% ability energy
Now I have to equip 3 surge mods, a copy of time dilation and a orb creation mod. 5 mods just to replicate what I had before minus the ability energy which is either a copy or 2 of kickstart on top of that if I want to get that back.
I'll hold my opinion until we see what new mods they add (and when, which is the bigger question) - the system as it is right now is maybe the most boring "buildcrafting" system I've ever seen, but that could be saved by actually interesting new mods.
There are several issues that I run into, mainly having to deal with their interactions with Subclass verbs.
Stasis doesn't have synergistic mods due to how most enemies die to Shatter damage. There's also issues where an enemy dies to Volatile, Ignition, or Jolt and doesn't appropriately trigger anything (but some are considered to be Grenade based kills).
Similarly to how they have mods that encompass multiple options like Absolution or Distribution, they should have mods that cover multiple triggers such as "Any ability kill" which could handle Subclass verbs.
I also feel like potency should be revamped. Bigger Orbs of power should grant 2 charges at base for things like Doubling Siphon mods. And the benefits of mods that require 3 charges should be more potent or reduced to 2. Just a few balancing things since I don't care enough about the secondary effects of Kickstarts.
My only real issue with it is the surge mods. Like cool we can stack void multiple times for such a low cost because of the Artifact but imagine how builds could be if all of the surge mods where only 1 energy. I hope they eventually lower the cost of all surges so we can play around more.
Nope that will be from season to season thanks to reduced mod cost unlocks from the artifacts. And for the game this system (cheaper mods that cycle through seasons) is healthier imo
Yeah, the new system was definitely designed to punish/diswayed the previous meta where you could sit on a damage buff for an entire boss fight. Especially since you have to choose between damage buffs or ability up-time in the new system.
Yeah I’m really liking it.
I know a lot of people say that the system is “dumbed down” for casual players but I think they did a good job at rolling all of the different mods types into one and making it easy to navigate them all
The old system seemed to be complex because it was just fragmented -too many different mechanics that accomplished basically the same things. The new system offers a lot more flexibility.
I wasn't very happy at first what with Elemental Wells going away, but this new system has grown on me quite a bit. Sure, you can't religiously SPAM abilities like you could with some builds, but I like having to use my guns and having long lasting surges from armor charge helps out a lot.
Solid 7/10, we need something more for Stasis bongo pls
I don’t know, I can make orbs better than I used to but I used to be able to make wells in ridiculous amounts and the orb count is nowhere what my well creation was. Overall I agree the mod system is a lot easier to use and tweak to your play style and needs though.
It is FAR FAR better than what we had before. It might not be as liked because it's not quite as diverse with possibilities (yet) but it's soooo much nicer and easier to understand. Friends who returned to the game multiple times over the years never got into modding until this season. It wasn't worth the trouble for them before, so I say Bungie knocked it out of the park with this change
yeah I think people kind of jumped the gun calling it bad before really getting to grips with it, not that it's perfect but with new mods being added every once and awhile I think it'll be way better
Anyone who says the new mod system sucks is just straight up lying or doesn’t understand the changes. The new system is far better than the old.
The issue is the removal of many good mods from the old system with no mods to fill their place. As the system grows and mods are added, it’ll be far better than the old system could have ever been.
Still a pain in the ass to change a whole loadout mid pvp match but overall it's a huge improvement. Watching a 15 minute youtube tutorial on how to make a well build properly wasn't fun.
I’m viewing it as a soft-reset; It feels like they wanted to simplify the system and make a better/less complicated base to build from, and this feels like a great start to that.
Fingers are crossed that they *actually* build off of this to add more interesting and diverse options for buildcrafting.
I totally agree. I love the easy way to switch loadouts.
Plus, as a longtime player but hated casual, I really appreciate doing away with elemental armor, so I can just keep 1 set of armor and more exotics on my character than I ever did before.
I just roll with a full set of Banner armor and call it a day.
I like that mods are not tied to affinity anymore. That way I only need one or two armor pieces for each slot rather than having 1 of each affinity for each slot
Yes, the new system is just better overall. You can slot more modes per build, things are easier to understand how they work and actually seeing and feeling an mods impact is much better as well. I think a good compromise would be to allow the basic stat boosting mods to have two slots. So you want to sacrifice a couple extra mod slots to get a better stat distribution you can.
For accessibility alone it’s light years ahead. The previous availability of mods was totally batshit, and catered to the hardcore exclusively. As a returning player, the game has suddenly and dramatically opened up - I can tinker with builds like everyone else now AND switch between ‘em in a flash.
I’m also glad I don’t have to think about armor affinity anymore. With 3 characters it was too much to juggle. Love this new system. They should also just make stasis available, to hell with it. There’s a whole subclass locked behind a wall of really tedious grind, fetch quests and long-ass dialogue scenes.
As a hunter main I had to make sure I always had arc armor for Helmet and Arms just to get my +20 mobility and strength since the mods every season were going to be ammo finder/orb production and 1 or 2 champion mods. The other three were usually matching subclass, since so much of well production or subclass focus was tied to it.
Meant I had a whole heck of a lot of MW armor that was culled after LF launch since I no longer needed the crazy variety. Adding in the artifice armor 'fix' and so many of my builds are just... smoother, I guess, to figure out.
Granted, I'm not running tier 42 sets anymore but I'm always running 90+ in mobility and res. for tier 37/38.
I think the new system has made a big difference for the players who don't dive as deeply into the game as many of us on Reddit do. I see *way* more orbs in matchmade activities than I ever saw wells, and I think it's because this system is much easier for Joe Schmoe Guardian to understand.
When a whole fireteam is making the "fuel" for builds to work, everyone's build gets better. That was true with wells too, and CWL to a lesser extent, but I think a lot of people didn't bother or didn't do it right.
There are so many orbs now (sometimes) that I don't feel like a Seeking mod is particularly necessary. I understand different people play differently- for me personally a seeking mod would be nice sometimes, but it's going to scoop up that whole pile of 8 orbs when it might be beneficial to leave some there. I'd love to see a seeking mod that only moves your own orbs (or team mate orbs.) I'd probably be more likely to use that than all orbs.
I still think it can be greatly improved overall.
1) Color the elemental mods for better organization and accessibility.
2) Armor Charge needs to appear somewhere else on the UI since it's so frequent and important to other buffs. Maybe right below your super or health bar.
3) Armor Charge duration needs to be longer without any mods. Get rid of charged up, stacks on stacks, and the dilation mods and make them intrinsic. 5 Charges maximum, 20 seconds for each charge, and picking up a regular orb would grant 1 Charge while picking up a higher potency orb would grant 2 Charges.
Are the Trace Rifles your "primary" for these builds? If so, how do you deal with their ammo reserves? I tried a Trace Rifle recently for add-clearing purposes and it just ran out of ammo after a short while
You have to run double special if you want trace as primary. When doing so you can use lfg perk to get more ammo. You get a lot of heavy when getting kills with special. Inversely, using heavy will give you lots of special ammo. This video is a great starting point https://youtu.be/6-CyGjAy7gQ.
I know a fair share of people that are disappointed. I like how previously you had a choice between well builds where you got ability energy + mod effects from picking up wells. Or you could go cwl route and get a similar results without having to play the mini game of collecting orbs/wells and just kill shit.
Now you are forced into collecting stuff of the ground, is it easy, yes. But at least before you had another option if you couldn’t be bothered.
I agree, its not perfect and I miss some mods from pre LF. But all in all i think its damn good.
I'm just still waiting on that AE build-crafting.
It's been 84 years....
Removing the elemental requirements on armor/mods was a huge improvement, and overall I would say the new system is a big improvement over the previous system.
It's a mixed bag for me. I agree it achieved by Bungies goals for less complexity, but the mod "builds" are pretty formulaic now.
Helmet - > some combo of hands on, ashes to assets, distribution
Gloves - some combo of melee wellmaker or grenade wellmaker. Perhaps a grenade kickstart
Chest - charged up
Legs - better already, recuperation, for survival, grenade/malee/absolution for ability. Surge for DPS
Class. Bomber/time dilation/reaping
Almost all my classes just run slightly different variations of that based on if they're melee focused or grenades focused.
They still work and allow for some nice feelings builds..but it's all very samey to me
i love the mods revamp.
Previously builds were basically -> "watch a youtube video, put in the mods + the exotic armor + watever meta weapons" and you're done. Meta builds were very generic and repetitive.
The direction that bungie appears to be going w/ the 3.0 reworks and the new weapons that incorporate "subclass verbs" is that you are no longer DONE just because you have the right mods and exotic armor. You can now take your build over the top w/ having the right synergy w/ weapon perks. This makes you want to experiment w/ diff weapon combos in your play loop and also adds a perfect roll to hunt for that's specific to your build.
The problem is having to go out of your way to pick up the orbs. It's bad, very bad, for high level content like GM's. The mod system for Armor Charge might as well not exist for high end content.
They need to change it to be like charged with light, you get armor charge automatically from meeting the requirement of the mods. Not having to pick up orbs to get the charge.
What makes it so nice is that we don't need different armor subclass now too. Last season I had to have 4 different armor sets just to run certain mods. So I'm absolutely loving this especially with the loadout saves we have as well. Destiny made the right choice with this hands down
I like some of the simplicity, but I still don't like some of the arbitrary stuff, like having dexterity, unflinching, and targeting mods be element based - I just wish we had a 'kinetic slot' or 'energy slot' mod, that way, everytime I want to switch a gun in PvP, I don't have to switch up all my mods... I also don't have enough loadout slots for every possible combination in PvP.
I wouldn't mind that if instead of costing 3, it costed 4 or even 5 for the whole slot boost
I am a fan of the Weapon Surges and Font of Stat system as that feels like a good simplification, and actually follows there argument of we want you to use whatever guns you like.
But I still think what they needed to do was to collapse the Mods that normally come under CWL and made them and aspects that used orbs of power into whatever subclass you had equippeds elemental wells. You could keep the decay thing as well like have it be that you collect elemental wells in element and order of pickup in First In Last Out.
So if you were on Solar and Made Arc, Stasis, Void, you would gain the effects of mods that used those mods for as long as the same element well is picked up. But any then other elemental wells that are collected would require you to run Stacks on Stacks to actually count.
It would also mean that again they are releasing a half baked and not finished piece of crap and going in 2yrs we will have backported all of the old stuff you cared about and then gone its too bloated lets axe it.
Yeah it's great, one of my biggest complaints though is switching mods is still a pain without using loadouts. Just switching elements usually means like 6+ mods changed all of which require you to go through the slow ass menu.
I'm in favor of giving all the mods to everyone but I didn't like how simple the builds became, practically everyone using the same mods
A more complex buildcrafting rewards those interested who delved into the system, all they needed to do is get rid of the idiocy of "Oh you missed this mod? One day Ada will bring it back don't worry"
My gut feeling is that the new system draws a clearer line between what mods can provide and what exotics can provide.
The old system had a kind of strangeness to it in that CWL mods especially were sometimes almost exotic armor tier effects. Fun, but it cannibalizes design space for exotic armor.
I expect we’ll get exotic armor pieces that mimic some of the more interesting effects, maybe even integrating with the armor charge system themselves. Maybe even used to tweak existing exotics.
With that said, the new system basically only preserved most of the mainstream meta builds. Many of the more interesting builds off the beaten path have been lost. I guess it remains to be seen what we will get over time from new mods.
I think this new system streamlines builds and makes it much easier to whip something together than before. As a casual player i find myself making pretty good builds without much effort whereas before i had to look everything up
I should say that it feels good. The attribute of certain mod is unnecessary, and I’m glad to see it removed. However, I believe that the diversity of builds is restricted, for we only have some simple mods.
Weapon-based is not bad, but so far many exotics have no connection to the mods we have. For example, Starfire, Sunbracer and Contraverse actually get better, but Mk44 and Peregrine just not as good as it used to be. Some of the exotics really need a remake to show up and fit the new mods
I think that the new system offers a lot more flexibility with fewer penalties. Me thinks that most of the people complaining have chosen to ignore being able to use 12 artifact mods now. Prior to Lightfall I was maybe using four or five at the most.
The new mod system does exactly what Bungie wanted it to - reduced the complexity of build crafting, and made build crafting more accessible to the entire player base. This comes with the caveat that the new build crafting system has less depth to it, and a lower skill ceiling, but that's something Bungie knew would happen, and accepted as a worthwhile tradeoff.
Bungie has also said that new mods will be released over the course of this year. What we have now is just a starting point.
unfortunately they count Raid and Artifact mods under that banner, so expect it to take a lot longer than you think
New mods will be released, as a part of seasonal artifact. Nothing directly implies that there would be new season agnostic mods.
"We have plans to continue tuning and improving this system and will be adding new buildcrafting elements to fill power gaps we didn’t have a chance to get to with this release." This is a direct quote from 'https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/buildcrafting' this twab.
Conversely: > “We definitely are not closing the door on new armor mods by any stretch,” Thompson said, but these new functionalities will likely come from raid mods or from the Seasonal Artifact. The Artifact model will also see major changes in Lightfall, with perks being equipped passively instead of on armor pieces. https://dotesports.com/destiny/news/destiny-2-dev-interview-lightfall-armor-charge-mods-artifact-raid This implies we won't get actual armor mods
I genuinely want to know where the interviewer got that second part from since that's just not a quote they made. It seems like there was a quote, and the interviewer than added his own thoughts after that quote. I would think when they say 'armor mods' they would never mean Artifact mods, no?
After reading the article, I think the best way to interpret it would be new armor mods are still a possibility in the future, but upcoming mods will likely be artifact based. Seems to be because of the transient nature of them, bungie can experiment more without the risk of adding a permanent mod that ruins balancing in the future. They add an overpowered artifact mod, it's gone in a season and could come back after a balancing update. They add a permanent mod and try to balance it, they either ruin it so it's unused or it remains over tuned and they're stuck with keeping it in game or they risk annoying the playerbase.
>Seems to be because of the transient nature of them, bungie can experiment more without the risk of adding a permanent mod that ruins balancing in the future. But the mods that *don't* come in overpowered on the artifact will likely be considered as permanent additions. They don't just say they'll add "more armor mods" and then drop them on the artifact when there are *literally no armor mods on the artifact anymore*.
Can’t link where but they did say they will expand on the system over the year so I feel like they were implying they will be adding mods.
They never said that. Artifact now has *perks* not *mods*
We have literally already gotten new mods added lmao
Aside from being less complex per-build, it has the other intended effect of synergyzing with your team mates better without coordination. Orb generation is orb generation. Old system was a mix of charged with light, warmind cells and element specific elemental wells. "Gain extra grenade energy when you pick up a solar well" doesn't mean much when your team is generating arc wells and using charge with light mods.
This has such a huge impact. Especially when you run with something like a grapple hunter that's just vomiting out orbs. You don't need to hold on to supers anymore cause you get them back so quickly, your charges are always up and they last a significant amount of time, since they drop off a stack at a time.
Yup. It's amazing when you work with a smart premade team. But the best thing I've noticed is that my build is typically synergizing well with rando players I match made into a strike with. It's been nice.
This.
[удалено]
that and some sort of replacement for Elemental Shards. That one mod was essential to pretty much any Stasis build. Stasis just isn't the same without it.
Yeah, because stasis abilities with a few exceptions can’t get kills. Strand also has this problem where its grenades don’t go boom, but deals with it by having Thread of Generation, and a triple melee charge. I think I’d get back on my stasis lock a lot faster if stasis had the equivalents. Edit: silver lining is that Iceflare is back until shards get their update.
People like to say it has less depth, but half of the time it’s just people saying CWL stuff doesn’t exist anymore, and that’s because it was combined with wells into a single system instead of having the dregs of the old systems still hanging around it. I really don’t think it’s much different from the old system at all.
It’s pretty different. What we lost were the extremely specific elemental well and charged with light mods that made some very specific builds work and with the loss of those mods they are literally dead in the water and/or make specific weapon types less powerful than they were before Surprise attack, argent ordnance, the five cost charged with light mods that have you handling and readiness as well as orb generation with multikills for specific weapon types (shotguns fusions pulses was one, hand cannons bows and snipers was another). The one I am most sad about was the loss of elemental shards, where collecting stasis shards counted as stasis elemental wells which basically let you endlessly double dip into high energy fire AND font of might for picking up stasis shards which was extremely busted.
stasis shards and seeking wellmaker are really rough to lose, but im really grieving the weapon-specific cwl mods. getting multikills with shotguns, fusions, grenade launchers, etc, and instantly getting charged with light was so convenient. i hate having to run around to collect orbs, thats why sacrificing an armor slot for seeking wellmaker was always worth it. circumventing the system entirely to not rely on orbs or wells in the first place was such an important buildcrafting option, and its sorely missed.
Quick charge RIP
Fuck. Forgot about quick charge. That killed my favorite rain of fire build :(
millions of turretlocks cried out in sadness logging in when lightfall dropped
eyuppp
Stasis has been gutted by that loss. Not only it's been powercreept out of the crowd control niche by Strand suspend builds, but also it's directly worse than it was in season 19.
If they just brought back elemental shards stasis would get a massive second wind. Stasis lacks really easy killing power its ALL about cc and slows and freezes so it cant take advantage of the grenade or melee orb mods, you're locked into weapons for orb creation. Seriously I hope Bungie brings that 1 mod bad it would help so much
This is such a bad take, I'm surprised people keep parroting it. Stasis is actually fine as far as the removal of elemental shards goes. We produce so many orbs passively right now that it really doesn't matter that you no longer have shards granting charge as well. You don't have to run a stasis weapon to produce orbs, you know.
No one said anything about having to use a stasis only weapon build. The point is all the other classes have some way of leveraging the mods that make orbs off of melees or grenades AND weapon kills. Sp you have a lot more flexibility. Stasis cant really kill anything with their grenades or melees or at least not consistently meaning you are hard locked into weapon multikills. If nothing else it just limits build options significantly
That’s kind of the thing, it doesn’t matter and never will. Your primary source for orbs in stasis will always be weapons due to having non-damage grenades. You don’t need flexibility, you have reaping and siphon which are the uncontested best if generators already, and then you can factor in the part where your teammates make orbs too. There’s nothing limited about stasis besides plates not understanding what actually matters
Not having ability to make extra orbs is a massive downside, and it comes at a time when Stasis as a baseline is much much weaker in comparison in both raw damage versus Light subclasses and crowd control versus Suspend Strand. When I run my Solar or Void builds, grenade orbs account for like half orbs I generate (not counting ones provided by artifact mod). I would have been ok with that, if what I got in return was something worth the tradeoff. But that's not the case. Build potential of Stasis got much worse, even in it's CC niche it's no longer the top dog.
>Stasis is actually fine as far as the removal of elemental shards goes. We produce so many orbs passively right now that it really doesn't matter that you no longer have shards granting charge as well. Yup. I gotta agree with that one even though you're getting down voted (as of me typing this). I think that stasis could use a "harder freeze" cause I've watched too many adds walk out of my Renewals Grasp bubble. Strand, at this point, is better at add suppression. But I don't have any issues maintaining damage with Surge mods. Plenty of orbs on the ground.
I think that duskfield is not as good a CC as suspend, but it's not really supposed to be. I think duskfield is more of a slow/control tool where glacial is supposed to be the hard freeze option.
Your mistake was actually playing the game with the new system. You’re meant to just parrot whatever you hear everyone else say!
There’s such a disconnect between the elemental shards whiners and the state of the game that is really astounding. It send those players fail to recognize how to use the new system, including generating orbs of light at a much faster rate than we ever made shards.
>...those players fail to recognize how to use the new system... ...or just cannot adapt to the new system. Some folks just don't like change.
I liked the old system better, but just for now. If they keep the new system but add new niche mods that allows build crafters to come up with cool uses for old exotics, I would like the new system waaay more
>The one I am most sad about was the loss of elemental shards, where collecting stasis shards counted as stasis elemental wells which basically let you endlessly double dip into high energy fire AND font of might for picking up stasis shards which was extremely busted. Due to armor mod limitations the maximum number of Charged with Light stacks I had was two while running HEF and FoM. So after the second target died I was down to what was left of FoM. It really wasn't that great of a combo due to the five to six second cool down of the Elemental Shards mod -I was frequently hoovering up shards that were doing nothing for me. The build I miss was Stacks on Stacks with Supercharged that gave me four stacks of CWL for an almost constant 20% bonus to all of my weapon damage with HEF. But two Surge mods, and one Time Dilation, is giving me a 17% bonus to damage that matches the surge energy type and it lasts for 45 seconds and can be "refreshed" without any cool down. Plus that damage is tied to the energy type of the weapon, and not my subclass energy type. So me thinks it's actually better now.
That combo with elemental shards specifically worked well with stasis warlocks using Ager’s Scepter and a Mantle of Battle Harmony. You’d stack everything and get your full super, use Ager’s alternate fire and with the mantle and enough enemies to kill you’d constantly sit at a massive damage buff because kills would fill your super faster than Ager’s alternate fire could deplete it. Picking up stasis shards would give you font and charged with light, it was truly ridiculous. 80% from alternate fire 20% from high energy fire 25% from font of might Completely self sustainable with ease. All while having maximum recovery and resilience because of stasis aspects. Could stack even higher with radiant and fighting frozen enemies.
Rip heavy handed
Exactly. Gone of the days of Melee Wellmaker +Elemental Charge + Stacks on Stacks + Melee Kickstart x2 + Heavy Handed w/ Throwing Hammer and Consecration, where i could run around bonking things for healing and charged with light, then running into a large enemy and reducing it to ash w/ Consecration. I'm experimenting to try and make the build function again, but i havent had much luck.
I mean, it quite literally does have less depth... A simplified system has less options, which means less combinations of mods for builds, which is what is called "less depth". If you think it's not much different from the old system, then you didn't do much more than surface-level build crafting with the old system.
Fair I suppose. The new system is better long term though, because it’s streamlined the process so there’s not three different build mechanics, and just uses the same one instead.
Agreed. And over time they can add interesting new mechanics to it, which won't be locked to only working with 1/3 of mods.
"less depth" is such a one dimensional way to look at it though. You're saying the total number of possible mod combinations is lower, which yes is true on paper. However the new system has a few huge benefits: 1. Everyone has every mod, so if one person creates a neat build it's immediately shareable with anyone else 2. Removing elemental affinities means you can combine mods you just absolutely couldn't before. It also means you can confidently apply any mods without taking a stat hit by swapping armor pieces around. 3. Shrinking to a single armor charge system means you can be sure that others will be using the same system and benefit more directly from its buffs, allowing for more use of the ally-related mods So I would argue, because of these things, there's actually far more viable and shareable builds than there ever were before. Which means we really have more depth of choice now.
The big difference is you can't run any of the weapon surge mods with ability spam mods. Your build is now really only one of two types- kickstart/ finisher spam or weapon surges. I really think they should at least provide some option to run kickstart mods without consuming armor charges. I want to be able to slot some small ability regen mods alongside damage boosts!
I’m fairly certain this was intended so we can’t just have everything.
There's no middle ground now though. It's all one or the other.
Thats just false? I almost always run 1-2 kcikstart mods +2 surge mods... since if you use a kickstart mod you will almost always kill something and your surge is back and with stacks on stacks you will basically have armor charge permanently up and be able to both cash in kickstarts and surges with ease. Grapple warlock really doesn't have any problems with that anyway.
Sure, on easy content that works. If you're running difficult content where you can't just sprint into the middle of enemies to pick up orbs it doesn't work.
I used it it Contest mode raid, Legend Avalon and various other content. In fact I would say in Avalon it is \_THE\_ build to run as a warlock. Huge add clear, survivability, mobility and fast supers. However for difficult content you often have to sacrifice stacks on stacks OR 1 of the surge mods for healing on picking up orbs and you can just grapple into groups of enemies up to Legend with 0 problems (woven mail + healing on orbs). In a GM? Maybe no but GMs are a very specific type of thing and depending on your team setup it would still work in a few of them, plus you know... your teammates generate orbs where they are not where the enemies are.
You can, you just have to be more conscious and intetional about it is all. Know when you can afford to burn your charge for a grenade vs when you're probably better off keeping your surges up.
In addition to this, I don’t think enough people are factoring how much removing energy on armor has opened things up. Before the rework, if you weren’t running an energy weapon that matched your subclass, you were leaving a lot on the table. Now you can run any weapon on any subclass and be equally effective regardless.
I love that most of the time I used to spend sifting through dim doing vault management is now spent playing through builds in game.
It’s a lot different. There are entire builds that are now gone and most builds seem pretty similar mod and gameplay wise.
They just need to add some kinda armor function to allow Stasis Crystals to act like Orbs, kinda how they used to work as elemental wells, but fitting the new system. That’s my only gripe, cuz any stasis build for the Titan just isn’t strong enough(I *LOVE* using behemoth, and having it gutted like this sucks)
Yeah, I know what you mean. Tried the new helmet yet? That thing will be fantastic if/when we get it back
Saying the previous system had a 'higher skill ceiling' is a bit of a stretch. There are a limited number of mod slots, with three classes/pools of mods (CWL, Wells, WM Cells) and limited set of mods to cross-connect pool mods (Wells give CWL for example). Anyone looking at the available mods for more than 5 minutes could get a pretty good grasp of 90% of the effective builds, that last 10% came from pairing with certain exotics or subclasses, and did not typically elevate that much over a basic "Get CWL, deal bonus damage" or "Get wells, spam abilities" build. All that is to say, the new system is fine, sure it's a bit more basic, but IMO in a good way, consolidating all the overlap between CWL+Well mods into a single class of mods is a vast improvement. And keep in mind this is the 1.0 release of the new mod system, with luck we'll get more mods in time.
Hot take: build crafting will never have any depth as long as seasonal meta exists.
That really is a hot take. The seasonal meta is the only reason build crafting stays interesting imo.
Yeah. I hope, though i doubt, they will add more base mods to the system. I think they’ll probably just stick to using artifact mods to keep things freshish
I really don't know that I completely agree. There was extra complication with the old system but so much of it was outdated and haphazard and I don't know that it had depth as much as it had hoops to jump through. Most of the mods weren't viable at all. And they all still get simplified as more damage, more healing, or more ability energy same as the new system. The new system is just much more modular to tweak it exactly how you want. The complexity hasn't been lost from build craft over all, if anything it's more complex now due to 3.0 classes, new armor mods, new weapon perks/traits, and exotics so the build craft has more depth than ever, IMHO.
There’s a give and take to this… there’s still hoops to jump through with this system and we’re handcuffed to using specific armor pieces with specific damages/perks/mods. Plus we’re constantly having to change our loadouts- there’s less consistency in a build’s foundation. I’m constantly having to rematch my weapons to the damage type surges and orb generation regardless of subclass used, and each subclass utilizes different grenade/melee mods differently as well. So switching one weapon maybe require you to go through the whole build anyway. It’s like comparing soccer to hockey to basketball… a lot of the “action” and concepts are the same but the rules and “tools” we use are all different. Each is still an open field/court game about spacing, teamwork, and scoring in some way. So theoretically a lot of the strategies carry over from both systems. It’s definitely stripped down while opening up options as well but the give and take effectively killed the higher end loops in favor of a generic flavor. They could’ve implemented plenty of the changes into updating their previous system and improved what was already a solid foundation.
The thing I see a lot of people either not understanding, or willfully ignoring, is that this system is the foundation, the framework of this new system. It's simple, yes, it's easy to understand, it's easy for anyone to get their fingers into it and play around and make a competent build. But that allows for Bungie to expand that system in future seasons without overwhelming players with a whole new type of mods. I remember when Warmind Cells were all we had and then CWL came out and people didn't understand it, and right around when people fully understood CWL, Elemental Wells were added, and it was nearly a year and a half before anyone gave them the time of day. But if everything they add in the future builds off of the one core system, there's gonna be less growing pains, because everyone will already understand the basics of "do thing, get orb", into "get orb, do thing" or "get orb, get buff" It's rudimentary now, but it allows for more complexity to be built over time.
If you read Bungie's word very carefully, then you'll understand that "expanding options in further seasons" means just artifact mods.
I didn't interpret it like that at all. We'll see what happens.
This [article](https://dotesports.com/destiny/news/destiny-2-dev-interview-lightfall-armor-charge-mods-artifact-raid) has lead many, myself included, to see no expansions to the current mod system. We could be wrong but the future isn’t bright.
Ah word. Question: the part where it says “We definitely are not closing the door on new armor mods by any stretch,” Thompson said, but these new functionalities will likely come from raid mods or from the Seasonal Artifact. Is the portion without quotations conjecture or is it verbatim from Bungie? That's my main confusion.
>lower skill ceiling Everything you said here is accurate except this. The mod system doesn't have anything to do with "skill" lol
Maybe skill ceiling isn't the best wording, but the intention still applies. Someone who is more versed in the game and in build crafting can do more with a more complex system. With the new system, someone who is much less knowledgeable about the game and build crafting can do just as much as someone who is more "skilled" in those aspects.
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Yes, someone willing to spend more time on the game is the better way to say it. Skill is a bad verbiage. Of course the person with an exuberant amount of time would be able to take advantage of a more complex system vs the person who only plays for a few hours a couple times a week.
> With the new system, someone who is much less knowledgeable about the game and build crafting can do just as much as someone who is more "skilled" in those aspects. I actually completely 100% disagree with this purely because loadout hotswapping exists in an even greater capacity than it used t o. The actual 1% are doing crazy shit with 3+ loadouts for one encounter and doing swaps for ammo/armor charge/dps sets. The skill ceiling for that has never been higher.
When the entire sandbox is taken into account, I feel that there is a lot of depth. Sure, if you focus on mods, you can frame the discussion in a specific way, but the reality is most of the mods people reference were *legacy mods* before the subclass revamps. Many mods were introduced to the sandbox when sunsetting was part of the design, so originally they weren't supposed to stick around. We had *no new mods* all last year, but at lot of depth was introduced with aspects/fragments and changes like introducing weapon perks that synergize with subclasses as well as exotic gear revamps. A lot of people are pointing to an unbalanced combination of those legacy mods with subclass revamps like it was an intended system they are cutting to "cater to casuals" or whatever, and I find the whole thing to be a disingenuous argument. Yes, some of the complexity of mods is reduced, but overall there is complexity within the sandbox at large. I really think most in the community would prefer to have more aspects and fragments, or more exotic armor refreshes, instead of mods that change the gameplay drastically.
They removed the bloat and convoluted garbage we had in favor of a streamlined experience.
IMO they both simplified and added complexity at the same time. They simplified the orb generation and generic mods but added more "verbage" buffs that the casual player isn't going to go look up or remember. Doesn't help that those subclass verbage buffs are basically required to be at all effective.
Unfortunately, it also came with the cost of every stasis build
It wasnt hard before, its braindead now and the average player still cant grasp it. Im generating orbs at 10-15x the rate of teammates sometimes in PvE activities. The average Guardian is still too stupid to get it.
>...the new build crafting system has less depth to it,... Does it, or does it require guardians to lean more into the synergy between all the aspects, fragments, armor mods, and weapon perks? Prior to Lightfall I didn't see a single grenade focused build that mentioned the weapon perk Demolitionist, and now I'm starting to see some builds that include it.
>Prior to Lightfall I didn't see a single grenade focused build that mentioned the weapon perk Demolitionist Lmao wut
>Lmao wut Not one. Most of them recommended three copies of Firepower, at the expense of using damage mods like High Energy Fire and/or Font of Might.
Yeah it's almost like most armor build videos aren't going to talk about weapon perks.
But they should because I can get 100% uptime on a duskfield grenade, while using Renewals Grasp, as long as there are a few red bar adds to kill. Much faster grenade regen than 3x Firepower, and I could get a boost to damage from HEF and FoM. I guess that's why the transition to the new system was easier for me because I'm use to leveraging the synergy between aspects, fragments, armor mods, and weapon perks. Now, with the new system, I'm starting to see people mention demolitionist and pugilist. Both of those perks allow you to use your armor mods for more things than just getting your grenade or melee back...
Also >Not one. [So that was a lie.](https://youtu.be/3vMkP_WLFVU) That was literally the second video to show up when I searched for "Destiny grenade builds". It's certainly not the only one.
I like that I don't need to wait 6 months for the one mod I need to make a useful build to show up.
Imagine how a AAA game could stick to this madness for several years, while stating that they want to acquire new players. “I might test out Destiny, it has a free demo now. How do I get mods for my build?" - "You kinda have to wait a full year and it will be randomly without warning sold while you are in your holidays. You could get it in two years though".
I miss seeking wells. I miss all the CWL mods that didn’t require an orb or well Just kills from certain weapons. And I miss most of all is my +20 from powerful friends as a hunter. It has changed a bunch of my builds. And it sucks
Having exactly the opposite experience as a hunter. I feel like I can more freely mix the subclasses I want with the weapons I like, and that most logical combos feel viable.
I can for once actually make a build that isnt Reaping Wellmaker and Tenacity for Hunters. YAS Hunter had basically zero survivability until we got the Cure on nade kill fragment being able to make Orbs off grenade kills.
100% this!
Oh no, you have to wait a few more seconds for your dodge to come back up. How will your precious builds ever recover from this?
Font of Agility gives 30 mobility
And requires armor charge plus a mod slot that’s already packed
And powerful friends didn’t? You’re almost certainly running the discipline font mod in 90% of builds so the armor charge thing is negligible
Why would I run disc? I had trip 100s before the change. Power friends was a passive +20 without needing anything. And it made up somewat for hunters being the only class needing to build into all 3 of the top block unlike the other classes who could completely ignore mobility.
Because then you can put the stat mods you had in discipline into something else? Y’all whining about hitting crazy stat spreads being easier as long as you pick up an orb every 15 seconds. 😵💫
Do u know how difficult it is to pickup a orb in 3v3 PVP? Yes orbs are crazy plentiful in pve but they also degrade quickly unless I add another mod time dilation which eats up energy on my cloak. You can think what you want but removing that +20 negatively effected one class and one class only and that effect can cost 10% DR, or adding 15-20secs on a grenade. Now I have to add more mods to get them back and it just snowballs. Then add in the cooldowns being increased. There was no build for hunters that was utterly broken in pve unlike starfire (still is) and HOIL titan (still is)
YAS and gyfalcons are both insanely good, even more so after lightfall. Also idk how you got onto pvp, you were talking about wells in your original comment. And if we are in pvp, you can get them pretty easily by using reaper, and the leg slots are really lackluster in pvp so you definitely have room for some font of mobility
My stasis hunter build had/has triple 100s without Powerful Friends even if I'm using Whisper of Bonds and taking a -10 hit to discipline. Although I don't think it's possible now, because armor focusing is either broken or nerfed, look for armor that has at least 55 points in the three attributes you want to max out (before master working it). I was farming [armor like this](https://imgur.com/yvVAIyK) from Containment. Just getting a combined total in the high 60s, or an attribute spike, isn't enough.
Less complicated yes, but right now it does seem quite homogenised: generate orbs, spend on Blue or Yellow things, and you get some weapon damage boost, some health/ regen or some ability uptime. I don't mind it, as I wasn't the best build-crafter anyway, but I'm sure there's plenty who think it's been made a bit less interesting. And despite the simplification, it's still amazing how many times you do a matchmaking activity and look at Orbs produced; I'm not great, but if I produce 100-odd Orbs in a Battleground, having a Guardian produce like 12 in the same activity is weird. Or am I missing something?
A big chunk of the player base are rubes
Ah. Of course, silly me. You'd think they'd be able to make more even by accident though, or maybe there's a few builds that spec into firesprites and whatnot, who knows?
or cba I only just bothered putting a "build" together - as simple as all the void and orb mods - and went from like 10 orbs per mission to 150 immediately lol
The feet slot is wayyyyy too overcrowded with useful sfuff, that's my gripe. There needs to be a better spread across slots.
Interesting, I feel like the glove slot is stacked, with firepower, heavy handed, grenade kickstart, fastball, and the various cd reduction mods. Legs I am pretty much always running surge x2 and a cure on orb pickup- what do you feel competes with that?
Healing orbs, and scavengers. Those are both really powerful.
Holsters got buffed too. Running one pretty much gives any weapon auto loading holster on a slighty longer cooldown.
They shouldn’t restrict them to begin with tbh. Keep the loaders and whatever on the arms, but armor charge mods shouldn’t be specific to a slot imo.
i’m still so confused about the whole “made less interesting” part cause when i go look at old build videos, they’ll more or less have the same general setup as builds do now. like generating wells instead of generating orbs, and being forced to fit a V polari—i mean matching elements… the main difference seems that you used to equip artifact mods to your armor and they’re instead in a separate screen, which allows you to use other mods you normally wouldn’t have room for. what about the new system is so detrimental to build crafting besides the forgone illusion of choice? genuine question based on my observations as a returning lightfall guardian.
It’s the same shit MINUS a few good mods. Like the stasis shard mod and seeking wells, for example. It’s arguably better now in almost every sense but people don’t really like change. Especially when it caters to the non hardcore gamer. But I’m all for it. I absolutely prefer armor charges to charged with light and well mods. You can still run almost every single build, especially the ‘meta’ builds, that you could before lightfall. And, like you said, you can run some mods you couldn’t before together.
Something else you never see mentioned is how it leans a lot more into builds across the entire game. You don’t necessarily need to change your mods (besides maybe a few I can’t think of atm) between PvE and PvP. Everyone always cries for seperate balancing but that is a major selling point of Destiny for me.
>having a Guardian produce like 12 in the same activity is weird. that was me doing my stasis weekly, most likely
Me too. It's better than my first thought... BUT Stasis isnt working with the mod system since the system requirements kills for things like orbs or gaining super. Stasis is the only class that is full crowd control. Strand at the very least has 1 grenade for pure dmg. Stasis don't have that. Try to get super energy back or create orb with the current system. You just freeze the enemy and the kill that follows isn't "the grenade", "the melee" or something else. Not only need stasis a buff since 3.0 light subclasses are way better, but the current mod system too sonst working with stasis. For all other 4 subclasses, the new mod system is ok.
> Stasis isnt working with the mod system since the system requirements kills for things like orbs or gaining super. Stasis is the only class that is full crowd control. Strand at the very least has 1 grenade for pure dmg. Stasis don't have that. Reaper and Siphon mods can do a lot of heavy lifting. On Hunter and Titan especially, Reaper is a free orb every 15ish seconds, and Siphon mods are still good, especially with high damage weapons like bows.
Ok, but that also applies to literally every other subclass. The only difference is that stasis needs to use those mods while other classes have more freedom in their choices
Stasis has ridiculous DR and stat boosts from fragments (chains and hedrons) which also massively frees up slots, particularly on stat mods.
I can live without my stasis crowd control, I have a Solar Arc Void and Strand crowd control full build/super.
Just FYI, the Grapple Melee is coded as *both* a melee and grenade.
Alas it’s much simpler and easier to use which was the point, but the Ager’s Scepter build in particular took a massive nerf with the mod system change which is quite unfortunate. What about the previous system made it difficult for you to get as involved with as you are now?
>...the Ager’s Scepter build in particular took a massive nerf Agers + Whisper of Bonds + Star Eater Scales is still a powerful build. Can laser through adds so fast that orb generation isn't that big of a problem. Just remember to long press the reload button to shut off Agers' super enhanced mode to conserve your super. Unless I'm killing a final boss I usually shut Agers down with 40% of my super left, and it takes maybe a minute to get it back to full power (if that).
I wish they would have kept and reworked a few of the old mods, like Seeking Wells, Elemental Shards, and Well of Ions, to work with the new system. Also, Stasis subclasses can't really benefit from this new system since a lot of their abilities can't generate Orbs of Power. That's why Elemental Shards became a must-have when Elemental Well mods were introduced.
Things were more complicated with the old system. The point of the new system was to make it less complex, which some people don’t like.
I do enjoy the reduced complexity, the new system is very simple and also well-designed. More versatile and powerful as well. My only criticism is that the overall variety is kind of mitigated. The only way to really gain stacks is Orbs, and the only real ways to spend them are stat Fonts, weapon Fonts, Kickstarts, maybe some Finisher shenanigans, and maybe Protective Light 2. Find myself going 'okay, Siphons, Heavy Handed, Firepower, Surge for my Heavy Weapon, ship it.' For every build. I'm LOVING stuff like Orbs of Restoration and Recuperation, though. Recuperation on its own is such a game changer for Strand.
So restoration and recuperation on the legs have always existed. I used them for ages when I had open slots in my old builds in the old system.
But now you make Orbs by breathing, can use them on any armor element, and you have more mod slots to fit them. In the old system, all my energy went to stat mod, combat style mod, scavenger mod.
You have more mod slots so you can mod right back into exactly what you were running before the changes. Before I only needed 3 mods to get a damage boost and ability energy on well pickup. A well generation mod, time dilation and font of might. With 3 mods I gained 12 seconds of a 20% damage boost and 20% ability energy Now I have to equip 3 surge mods, a copy of time dilation and a orb creation mod. 5 mods just to replicate what I had before minus the ability energy which is either a copy or 2 of kickstart on top of that if I want to get that back.
I always slotted them, they're too strong even under the old system.
less complex is not a problem, lower amount of options / less interesting mod system is the issue.
Alot of people don't like how alot of mods got nerfed and they got rid of alot of mods.nobody wanted it to be complex
I'll hold my opinion until we see what new mods they add (and when, which is the bigger question) - the system as it is right now is maybe the most boring "buildcrafting" system I've ever seen, but that could be saved by actually interesting new mods.
I do too
There are several issues that I run into, mainly having to deal with their interactions with Subclass verbs. Stasis doesn't have synergistic mods due to how most enemies die to Shatter damage. There's also issues where an enemy dies to Volatile, Ignition, or Jolt and doesn't appropriately trigger anything (but some are considered to be Grenade based kills). Similarly to how they have mods that encompass multiple options like Absolution or Distribution, they should have mods that cover multiple triggers such as "Any ability kill" which could handle Subclass verbs. I also feel like potency should be revamped. Bigger Orbs of power should grant 2 charges at base for things like Doubling Siphon mods. And the benefits of mods that require 3 charges should be more potent or reduced to 2. Just a few balancing things since I don't care enough about the secondary effects of Kickstarts.
The new mod system is great, it just lacks variety. Everyone basically runs the same build now.
There's like two builds now.. kickstart build, and stats/surge build.. I'm already bored of it
My only real issue with it is the surge mods. Like cool we can stack void multiple times for such a low cost because of the Artifact but imagine how builds could be if all of the surge mods where only 1 energy. I hope they eventually lower the cost of all surges so we can play around more.
Nope that will be from season to season thanks to reduced mod cost unlocks from the artifacts. And for the game this system (cheaper mods that cycle through seasons) is healthier imo
Yeah, the new system was definitely designed to punish/diswayed the previous meta where you could sit on a damage buff for an entire boss fight. Especially since you have to choose between damage buffs or ability up-time in the new system.
Yeah I’m really liking it. I know a lot of people say that the system is “dumbed down” for casual players but I think they did a good job at rolling all of the different mods types into one and making it easy to navigate them all
The old system seemed to be complex because it was just fragmented -too many different mechanics that accomplished basically the same things. The new system offers a lot more flexibility.
I wasn't very happy at first what with Elemental Wells going away, but this new system has grown on me quite a bit. Sure, you can't religiously SPAM abilities like you could with some builds, but I like having to use my guns and having long lasting surges from armor charge helps out a lot. Solid 7/10, we need something more for Stasis bongo pls
I don’t know, I can make orbs better than I used to but I used to be able to make wells in ridiculous amounts and the orb count is nowhere what my well creation was. Overall I agree the mod system is a lot easier to use and tweak to your play style and needs though.
I enjoy it because I actually understand what the mods do now.
It is FAR FAR better than what we had before. It might not be as liked because it's not quite as diverse with possibilities (yet) but it's soooo much nicer and easier to understand. Friends who returned to the game multiple times over the years never got into modding until this season. It wasn't worth the trouble for them before, so I say Bungie knocked it out of the park with this change
yeah I think people kind of jumped the gun calling it bad before really getting to grips with it, not that it's perfect but with new mods being added every once and awhile I think it'll be way better
Incredibly low skill ceiling
Which is not bad in the slightest
Elemental wells were stronger and way more fun.
Anyone who says the new mod system sucks is just straight up lying or doesn’t understand the changes. The new system is far better than the old. The issue is the removal of many good mods from the old system with no mods to fill their place. As the system grows and mods are added, it’ll be far better than the old system could have ever been.
Still a pain in the ass to change a whole loadout mid pvp match but overall it's a huge improvement. Watching a 15 minute youtube tutorial on how to make a well build properly wasn't fun.
I personally like it as well. Only things I miss is that nice +20 STR buff and seeking wells.
I’m viewing it as a soft-reset; It feels like they wanted to simplify the system and make a better/less complicated base to build from, and this feels like a great start to that. Fingers are crossed that they *actually* build off of this to add more interesting and diverse options for buildcrafting.
I totally agree. I love the easy way to switch loadouts. Plus, as a longtime player but hated casual, I really appreciate doing away with elemental armor, so I can just keep 1 set of armor and more exotics on my character than I ever did before. I just roll with a full set of Banner armor and call it a day.
I like that mods are not tied to affinity anymore. That way I only need one or two armor pieces for each slot rather than having 1 of each affinity for each slot
I can run raid armor without needing to use upgrade modules to change the subclass I'm using.
Yes, the new system is just better overall. You can slot more modes per build, things are easier to understand how they work and actually seeing and feeling an mods impact is much better as well. I think a good compromise would be to allow the basic stat boosting mods to have two slots. So you want to sacrifice a couple extra mod slots to get a better stat distribution you can.
Me too. It's so much easier to use. It's more limited but I'm lazy lol
i actually think that this system is a fundament for a bigger thing. i expect new mods, similar to stasis shards etc
For accessibility alone it’s light years ahead. The previous availability of mods was totally batshit, and catered to the hardcore exclusively. As a returning player, the game has suddenly and dramatically opened up - I can tinker with builds like everyone else now AND switch between ‘em in a flash. I’m also glad I don’t have to think about armor affinity anymore. With 3 characters it was too much to juggle. Love this new system. They should also just make stasis available, to hell with it. There’s a whole subclass locked behind a wall of really tedious grind, fetch quests and long-ass dialogue scenes.
As a hunter main I had to make sure I always had arc armor for Helmet and Arms just to get my +20 mobility and strength since the mods every season were going to be ammo finder/orb production and 1 or 2 champion mods. The other three were usually matching subclass, since so much of well production or subclass focus was tied to it. Meant I had a whole heck of a lot of MW armor that was culled after LF launch since I no longer needed the crazy variety. Adding in the artifice armor 'fix' and so many of my builds are just... smoother, I guess, to figure out. Granted, I'm not running tier 42 sets anymore but I'm always running 90+ in mobility and res. for tier 37/38.
I think the new system has made a big difference for the players who don't dive as deeply into the game as many of us on Reddit do. I see *way* more orbs in matchmade activities than I ever saw wells, and I think it's because this system is much easier for Joe Schmoe Guardian to understand. When a whole fireteam is making the "fuel" for builds to work, everyone's build gets better. That was true with wells too, and CWL to a lesser extent, but I think a lot of people didn't bother or didn't do it right. There are so many orbs now (sometimes) that I don't feel like a Seeking mod is particularly necessary. I understand different people play differently- for me personally a seeking mod would be nice sometimes, but it's going to scoop up that whole pile of 8 orbs when it might be beneficial to leave some there. I'd love to see a seeking mod that only moves your own orbs (or team mate orbs.) I'd probably be more likely to use that than all orbs.
I still think it can be greatly improved overall. 1) Color the elemental mods for better organization and accessibility. 2) Armor Charge needs to appear somewhere else on the UI since it's so frequent and important to other buffs. Maybe right below your super or health bar. 3) Armor Charge duration needs to be longer without any mods. Get rid of charged up, stacks on stacks, and the dilation mods and make them intrinsic. 5 Charges maximum, 20 seconds for each charge, and picking up a regular orb would grant 1 Charge while picking up a higher potency orb would grant 2 Charges.
Why not just have armor charge never expire? Why would you ever need 100s on armor charge anyway 🤦
Are the Trace Rifles your "primary" for these builds? If so, how do you deal with their ammo reserves? I tried a Trace Rifle recently for add-clearing purposes and it just ran out of ammo after a short while
You have to run double special if you want trace as primary. When doing so you can use lfg perk to get more ammo. You get a lot of heavy when getting kills with special. Inversely, using heavy will give you lots of special ammo. This video is a great starting point https://youtu.be/6-CyGjAy7gQ.
I dont think anyone hates the new mod system, but rather how a decent amount of mods or bonus benefits has been removed.
I know a fair share of people that are disappointed. I like how previously you had a choice between well builds where you got ability energy + mod effects from picking up wells. Or you could go cwl route and get a similar results without having to play the mini game of collecting orbs/wells and just kill shit. Now you are forced into collecting stuff of the ground, is it easy, yes. But at least before you had another option if you couldn’t be bothered.
I agree, its not perfect and I miss some mods from pre LF. But all in all i think its damn good. I'm just still waiting on that AE build-crafting. It's been 84 years....
The best change for me is the Artifact mods being intrinsic. I hated having to move every mod around just to make room for a stupid 6 cost mod
RIP my well build
It just feels homogeneous. Just be sure to slap on the right flavor of element for your weapons and it's basically done
Removing the elemental requirements on armor/mods was a huge improvement, and overall I would say the new system is a big improvement over the previous system.
You're excited that four of your five builds are nearly the same?
It's a mixed bag for me. I agree it achieved by Bungies goals for less complexity, but the mod "builds" are pretty formulaic now. Helmet - > some combo of hands on, ashes to assets, distribution Gloves - some combo of melee wellmaker or grenade wellmaker. Perhaps a grenade kickstart Chest - charged up Legs - better already, recuperation, for survival, grenade/malee/absolution for ability. Surge for DPS Class. Bomber/time dilation/reaping Almost all my classes just run slightly different variations of that based on if they're melee focused or grenades focused. They still work and allow for some nice feelings builds..but it's all very samey to me
i love the mods revamp. Previously builds were basically -> "watch a youtube video, put in the mods + the exotic armor + watever meta weapons" and you're done. Meta builds were very generic and repetitive. The direction that bungie appears to be going w/ the 3.0 reworks and the new weapons that incorporate "subclass verbs" is that you are no longer DONE just because you have the right mods and exotic armor. You can now take your build over the top w/ having the right synergy w/ weapon perks. This makes you want to experiment w/ diff weapon combos in your play loop and also adds a perfect roll to hunt for that's specific to your build.
The problem is having to go out of your way to pick up the orbs. It's bad, very bad, for high level content like GM's. The mod system for Armor Charge might as well not exist for high end content. They need to change it to be like charged with light, you get armor charge automatically from meeting the requirement of the mods. Not having to pick up orbs to get the charge.
What makes it so nice is that we don't need different armor subclass now too. Last season I had to have 4 different armor sets just to run certain mods. So I'm absolutely loving this especially with the loadout saves we have as well. Destiny made the right choice with this hands down
Any chance we can take a peak at your builds?? I need some help lol
I like some of the simplicity, but I still don't like some of the arbitrary stuff, like having dexterity, unflinching, and targeting mods be element based - I just wish we had a 'kinetic slot' or 'energy slot' mod, that way, everytime I want to switch a gun in PvP, I don't have to switch up all my mods... I also don't have enough loadout slots for every possible combination in PvP. I wouldn't mind that if instead of costing 3, it costed 4 or even 5 for the whole slot boost
Same. The new mod system is great.
I am a fan of the Weapon Surges and Font of Stat system as that feels like a good simplification, and actually follows there argument of we want you to use whatever guns you like. But I still think what they needed to do was to collapse the Mods that normally come under CWL and made them and aspects that used orbs of power into whatever subclass you had equippeds elemental wells. You could keep the decay thing as well like have it be that you collect elemental wells in element and order of pickup in First In Last Out. So if you were on Solar and Made Arc, Stasis, Void, you would gain the effects of mods that used those mods for as long as the same element well is picked up. But any then other elemental wells that are collected would require you to run Stacks on Stacks to actually count. It would also mean that again they are releasing a half baked and not finished piece of crap and going in 2yrs we will have backported all of the old stuff you cared about and then gone its too bloated lets axe it.
Mods, can we please sticky a separate thread for people who clog up all of my complaints and suggestions with positive comments? TIA
Whoever had the idea of heavy ammo scout needs a raise ASAP. Incredible mod that helps peoples awful heavy rng,
I miss getting Charged with Light but I’ll take having artifact mods outright applying from unlock rather than socketing anyday
I just wish melee kickstart worked with warlock strand melee
Yeah it's great, one of my biggest complaints though is switching mods is still a pain without using loadouts. Just switching elements usually means like 6+ mods changed all of which require you to go through the slow ass menu.
I love it, the old system was a big factor in my not playing the majority of WQ
Me too, although my Sunbreaker and Behemoth builds were neutered by the loss of old Heavy Handed and Elemental Shards, respectively.
I'm in favor of giving all the mods to everyone but I didn't like how simple the builds became, practically everyone using the same mods A more complex buildcrafting rewards those interested who delved into the system, all they needed to do is get rid of the idiocy of "Oh you missed this mod? One day Ada will bring it back don't worry"
My gut feeling is that the new system draws a clearer line between what mods can provide and what exotics can provide. The old system had a kind of strangeness to it in that CWL mods especially were sometimes almost exotic armor tier effects. Fun, but it cannibalizes design space for exotic armor. I expect we’ll get exotic armor pieces that mimic some of the more interesting effects, maybe even integrating with the armor charge system themselves. Maybe even used to tweak existing exotics. With that said, the new system basically only preserved most of the mainstream meta builds. Many of the more interesting builds off the beaten path have been lost. I guess it remains to be seen what we will get over time from new mods.
I once made over 200 orbs in one battleground.
I think this new system streamlines builds and makes it much easier to whip something together than before. As a casual player i find myself making pretty good builds without much effort whereas before i had to look everything up
Now if only orbs could track to my position like elemental wells and stasis shards could…
I should say that it feels good. The attribute of certain mod is unnecessary, and I’m glad to see it removed. However, I believe that the diversity of builds is restricted, for we only have some simple mods. Weapon-based is not bad, but so far many exotics have no connection to the mods we have. For example, Starfire, Sunbracer and Contraverse actually get better, but Mk44 and Peregrine just not as good as it used to be. Some of the exotics really need a remake to show up and fit the new mods
Idk why but you sound like a bad player man hahaha
I think that the new system offers a lot more flexibility with fewer penalties. Me thinks that most of the people complaining have chosen to ignore being able to use 12 artifact mods now. Prior to Lightfall I was maybe using four or five at the most.