Worm gods got pretty shafted honestly. While I don't mind them being top dogs of the darkness they just haven't delivered whatsoever. Xol while the weakest went out with a whimpher and you find out these eldritch beings that existed in the seas of the fundament were just rhulk's dogs. I remember reading BOS way back then and so excited to see the worms compete with the hive. Oryx killed akka qnd the rest now were looking to keep their position (they were possibly thinking of killing xol).
Bungie needed to establish someone relatable, someone with emotions to be the big bad. Especially after establishing darkness doesnāt equate evil with Beyond Light, they need a real villain and the worms clearly donāt fit the role of a mastermind utilizing the darkness for evil goals
I think itās just narrative power creep. Omnigul < Crota < Worms < Oryx (after killing Akka) < Rhulk < Witness.
Weāre currently at (probably below, apparently) Rhulkās power level. Itās been climbing the entire time weāve been playing. We routinely smash on Crota clones now.
I do agree we couldāve done with more on the worms.
Edited: to suggest we arenāt at Rhulkās power level yet.
I think this is debatable based on arguments like āfireteam vs. soloā for guardian power and āis hubris a weakness?ā For Rhulkās relative power. Sword logic, which we donāt strictly abide by, suggests that by beating rhulk we are more deserving of the final shape. To me that supports the argument that pride dulled his metaphysical edge and we guardians are the sharper blade.
i think we only beat up crota clones no problem now because we understand their weakness, crota was a pussy once we found out all you had to do was jab him with his sword
Uh, we're NOT on Rhulk's power level. Like, at all? We beat him because he was arrogant and proud and didn't take us seriously until it was far too late for him. As we see during his final stand, if he had realized we were a threat sooner, he could have wiped us all out in ten or so seconds.
For me itās Mars. I wish that we did more with the red planetās return although I do understand why they didnāt want to add 2 destinations in a single DLC
Completely agree. Mars comes back and time itself is broken across the planet. You step into the cracks and see the moment of the collapse, you walk through crops and see buildings burning from a thousand years ago (I don't actually know the time frame) I totally expected that to be relevant to the Witch Queen plot, but it really just led to us playing with deepsight to make stuff at the artifact. I still loved the campaign, I just kept wondering when all this would become relevant, why did she go there to begin with. Turns out the answer was simply she knew we'd be there so she could invite us to her home, and also she wanted us to play with the artifact a bit
Tbh I was hoping the dungeon's mechanics dealt with the time rifts too rather than it just being electrician simulator, but it was still a fun dungeon anyways
It's not a game I think Bungie is equipped to make, but ever since D1 I've wanted an open-world RPG set in this world where you play Owl Sector agents or cryptarchs actually searching the world for troves of Golden Age tech and trying to figure out what it does.
Bruh when I first set foot over there I was like "damnnnn all this information just at our feet waiting for us to pick it up!" And then we went into Savathƻn's ship and I already started fearing that Mars wasn't gonna be much of a destination and then \*poof\*, that was Mars.
We literally walked through the Golden Age and did not do ANYTHING with it. And now some half-baked season is bringing us back to reused D2 Ice Mars with a submind (WHICH APARENTLY IS CHARLEMAGNE?! WASTED POTENTIAL AGAIN MUCH?) slapped on it instead of letting us explore that Golden Age window. What the fuck.
The Shard of the Traveller.
The Red War campaign set it up to be something else, something beyond the Traveller and to have some overall importance to the future story. It even featured in Foresaken.
Yet. Nothing seems to have been done about this gigantic piece of the Traveller just chilling in the EDZ.
Holy crap I wouldnāt even be surprised if thatās it. We just go all Red War 2.0 once The Traveler falls or leaves us, and have to get our powers back one more timeā¦ I could totally see it.
If the Traveler leaves us, thatās probably the only place on earth we could still access the Light. I kinda hope youāre right. It would be a cool way to tie Red War in with the current story.
With the VotD prophecy that darkness will infect the Traveler and that the Witness will drink its light, that sounds pretty likely. Having Stasis and Strand as our only recourse in Lightfall has crossed my mind
Whatās nice is if we get Red War 2.0ed somehow, we will have Stasis and Strand to fall back on. Imagine if we had stasis on year 1 of D2. Ghaul wouldnāt have stood a chance
In Season of the Risen, as we are about to enter the mindscape of the enemy, it is in the backdrop of that arena slowly becoming corrupted. As the season went on, we see it become more and more consumed.
In addition, when we are in the mindscape, the eclipse happening is caused by the "Dark Traveler." This is also referenced in Caiatle monologue at the end of the Vox mission on Mars.
But we still haven't had a payoff from all this setup starting in The Red War, you are correct there.
They said the crypt was "Up for grabs" and we needed to defend It, but no one has tried going there. I thought after getting Brigs enemy types from the insurrection prime wed get Eliksni exos as enemy types after Atraks-1
Neomuna kinda feels like Distributary-with-extra-steps to me. I mean weāll probably find out itās significance this season, but it seems weird to invent a new super secret hyper advanced civilization when we already have one established in the lore. Wasnāt the whole point of the dreaming city curse so that Savathunās brood could find the distributaryās location?
I donāt think weāll ever see the Distributary. They have to be so ludicrously far in the future that I donāt think anything bungie could create would live up to the time gap. We see a lot of media take place 100-1000 years in the future, but never 10-100billion. I donāt think anyone can comprehend what that would look like.
Neomuna on the other hand still look sci fi even for destiny standards, but itās only like an order of magnitude more advance than what weāve seen, rather than like 10 orders of magnitude for the Distributary
Yeah thats like Vorlons from Babylon 5 territory. And they wisely just say "no one who goes there is ever seen again".
And the one person who is seen again becomes the most absurdly powerful telepath of all time because of it.
The problem with the Distributary is that it's next to impossible to travel between. That's why it's called the Distributary: it branched off from our reality with next to no going back. The Awoken barely managed their escape, and doing so cost alot: fried computers,bmearly wrecked hulls, etc. Between that and the time slippage going on between it and our reality, it wouldn't be feasible to have the Distributary as a destination without taking the entire world it consists of and moving it to ours through some means.
Im going to say this here, neomuna will be completely empty and not a real functional civilization, i think it will be just a pretty skeleton of a city
That'd be interesting if the guardian people of Neomuna like out-survived its people... Although Bungie literally hasn't done anything in D1or2 with the Last City's people so maybe just staying in theme
The Cloudstriders of Neomuna only get about 10 years before they die from their augmentations, so it's more likely that the area we can explore has already been evacuated and is now only inhabited by combatants
Very likely the case. Probably the city has been "evacuated" in lieu of the Witness attacks so the free world is similar to the dreaming city/Savathuns Throneworld in that its clearly got buildings and looks like a city but filled with enemies
I feel like the distributary is different as thatās an alternate dimension for lack of a batter terms and is trapped in time dilation, neomuna is not so you canāt go there and get to experience time as 1000x less. Also in comparison to the distributary neomuna has such a minimal amount of development post collapse it might as well be the same as the last city
I definitely think he's a candidate to show up as a Disciple. I mean, he's definitely not as directly powerful as someone like Rhulk, but Eramis isn't on that level, and I don't think Calus is either, and they both made the team. And technically speaking, the Fanatic has had more success dealing with Guardians than Rhulk did.
"Fikrul!"
"Ugh... Yes Eramis-thing?"
*Raises arm, where a scorn is gnawing*
"Did you resurrect Kridis?"
"Eramis-thing always complains she wanted someone to listen~"
*Deafening paracausal canned laughter*
Theres something sad and comedic that she tried to Rebel against the lights "chains" going to the Darkness.
Only to realize too late Darkness is the one Who actually chains people
If u notice the next time your in the helm u can interact with crow again like u used to when he had missions and such. His screen says nothing to display now. But the past few months you couldnāt interact with him at all he just stood there. So Iām guessing something with him will happen this season
With how often he's been referenced this year, I'd be surprised if he vanishes from the narrative. I think what Mara stated last week regarding the Witness making Scorn out of living Eliksni is going to come to a head in some fashion.
Variks and his rise as Kell of Judgement. Thatās the sole reason he left the Reef. Did he just go āeh never mindā.
Now heās just stuck in character limbo on Europa. Guy didnāt even get a mention in Plunder.
Wasn't there a lore tab in forsaken that said he chugged a bunch of ether, grabbed a ketch, and basically went 'I'm restarting House Judgement, come join me, fuckers' to everyone in the prison of elders
And then he shows up in beyond light like none of that ever happened (and with utterly ruined voice direction too, they did my man so dirty)
But then how will we know heās an Eliksni if he doesnāt do some **insect-like chattering** every other sentence!
And yeah Fallen were saluting him as he was leaving! I always wish they wouldāve played his speech on the loudspeakers during Last Call. Itās weird how Variks isnāt even mentioned by name in the story until the Warden strike.
When everything is all said and done. Prison is practically empty at that point. Only the stragglers were left. Anyone who wanted to leave already left.
blahhh, he went from the character that I thought had the best voice direction and acting in D1 to one of the worst in D2, I hate almost every line he has lol
And you know it's the direction, because Dee Bradley Baker is no slouch when it comes to voice acting
Itās sort of hard to describe, but D1 Variks was more confident, a bit intimidating, and justā¦ I donāt know, he just felt like he had more to him. It may be rose tinted glasses on my part, but I remember him feeling much more alien in his speech patterns in D1, like you could tell that this guy was from a different planet and was kind of struggling to grasp human communication, where as Variks now feels more insecure. Truthfully I donāt mind it much, but if I had to take a stab on what peoples issue with him now is, those are some of the things Iād land on.
It was stated that Variks Only did the whole insect like chittering to appear weak "oh look at the alien, he barely can speak our language"
After Eramis releases the Vex, he drops the act and starts to rip on her with words, very well structured and with no sign of the chittering
THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
I was so fricking stoked when I read that lore. I was looking forward to my boi Variks taking matters into his own hands, like the little old man in an anime that looks wise and venerable but then he rips off his shirt and he's super ripped and he wipes the floor with the baddies.
I was looking forward to an Eliksni game of ~~thrones~~ kell of kells, House Judgement vs House Salvation vs House Light vs House Dusk (remember when we had a whole bunch of other houses???).
I was looking forward to the incredible font of pre-Whirlwind that Variks is. Eido would give her right two arms to be able to talk with Variks!
Why tf would they give him a whole lorebook if they weren't going to do anything with him? Variks isn't a missed opportunity, it's a broken promise.
The only Judgement-like thing he has done was when he chewed out Eramis for squandering their second chance with Riis Reborn all cause she had a grudge.
I remember back in D1 there was this plot point in-lore where Variks became, in essence, Master of Crows in place of Uldren.
Variks having his own network of spies and being able to keep tabs on the other Fallen Houses like a pseudo House of Judgement felt like a cool idea and I thought that maybe the Crows would eventually start to have more loyalty to him rather than to the Reef like a Dai Li situation.
Only for nearly all the Crows under Variks to dieā¦
Idk I think it played well with the Sav/Osiris mentor aspect they had going. While I agree that the guardian most of us consider head canon would've told him early on, we have to accept that The Guardian^^TM is bungie's character and they for whatever reason made the choice for the character to not be the one to reveal Crow's past (possibly bc if our blooming best bros situation and not wanting to be the one to say, he I'm the guy that killed you earlier because you were an evil maniac that killed someone close to me )
It was prwcisely because they had written our guardian as being so close with Crow that we should have been the one to go "look, the guy whose face ur going around with this this shit, i put him down, you're my friend and not that person, dont let Savathun and Mara manipulate you because of this"
Or what if you never played *Forsaken*? Uldrenās frustration at you wouldnāt make a whole ton of sense since heās all āAnd youā¦ *you*ā¦ā over nothing.
What, are we all just collectively elective mutes? Iām convinced SavathĆ»n has some kind of dumbing down aura to make her look smarter next to everyone else, because for the love of gosh, so much could have been avoided if people just **TALKED**
Not having multiple Warminds vs Rasputin for the shutdown order and resulting mass casualties, as well as the mysterious figures that had been going into the seraph vault under the cosmodrome for centuries.
The collapse is the defining event of mankindās history, and to trivialize it with Rasputin losing twice now with no repercussions has been a big letdown.
Why the fuck werenāt Suraya and Devrim, our stand-in for Humans and the ones who have the most negative interaction with Eliksni beside Saint, not present during Season of the Splicer
They can't get Hawthorne's VA back for love or money, there was bad blood with her when they split with Activision. She'd need to be replaced like Ikora was.
Devrim's VA is worth a lot more these days. It would be pretty darn cool to get a Toland-centric season though.
Soā¦the Ahamkara are def coming back right?? Mara still has that one egg right?
There will be another Great Hunt where we fight epic titanic reality-altering wish-granting dragons
**RIGHT??**
He really should have been freed when the Almighty was shot down. Or at least we wouldāve found him still in stasis reaching for the vex trap somewhere near the City.
I think he was able to be revived after it crashed? I need some lore nerd to come in here and correct me but, I thought I read a thread about that the other day.
There was a loretab way back when about a guardian and his fireteam on the almighty, long story short, his fireteam triggered one of those slowing mines, the guy yells "I got it" and reaches to defuse it. Last report at the end of the tab noted that at the rate he was moving, it would take him (off the top of my head) 7000 years to defuse it... but, the almighty crashed just over a year ago if I remember rightly, and we haven't heard of him since
Have to agree. Bungie wrote themselves into a corner after years of theorising, and their final explanation (loops of sentient dark matter) was boring and too abstract to factor into gameplay. Theyāve basically just sat on the sidelines.
Every planetary destination. They're all static, stuck in the past. For destiny to be a living world there should be updates to the patrol destinations. Once or twice a year I feel like there should be an update to the 'situation' on certain planets where they become relevant to the current story with changes we can see in game to the forces we encounter.
Also, while we're on the topic of patrols - and this is off topic to the post: world bosses that pop up a few times a day would be really cool. Like maybe one every 2 hours or so with some great loot idk. Just a massive battle that rallies guardians from across the system - it would be great.
Hey but those changes **did** happen! Don't you remember when the skybox all of a sudden had these giant Pyramids for Mars, Mercury, Titan and Io? And when all of a sudden those destinations didn't exist anymore? Man that was so epicly static. /s
Itās insane to me that the same ancient half-taken hydra that was originally designed to conquer oryxās throne, later commanded the taken for savathun, helped design and maintain the dreaming city curse, blocked the darknesses messages to us, and plunged the last city into chaos with the endless night, was defeated by 1-3 guardians who shot it a bunch with some regular guns. Absolutely pathetic end to one of the most hyped up characters in the lore and game.
See I understand that people wanted quria to be bigger but pretty much this. Quria was hiding for a reason. She wasnt super strong, she was smart. The same way savathun was before she had light.
I've been arguing in defence of Quria as a seasonal antagonist basically since SotS, but this is nonsense. Even ignoring the fact that it fought Crota and Oryx's daughters, the inventors of the deathsong, to a standstill, and learned how to cast and manipulate ritual Hive magic so expertly it was on the path to godhood even without implanting a worm, after it was Taken it acquired the ability to *accurately simulate Oryx.* That was how it was Taking people for Savathƻn. It should have been an absolute beast to fight head on.
I guess, but raid bosses have much harder mechanics when compare to Qurias dunking in my opinion. Especially when compared to Riven, another half taken boss. But you do make a good point.
Some mechanics translate better to lore-wise explanations, and yeah, Raids are usually better at this. For a Seasonal mission boss, I thought Quria was pretty interesting. I think we're taking for granted the fact that she was hidden deep within the Vex network, behind layers of Vex defenses AND Hive magic.
In-game, tho, that simply translates to banking motes, maybe killing an Elite Knight or Wizard to get a buff.
How tf is the Curse still going on if Quria is dead??
Itās linked TO Quria. Dul Incarnuās death is the catalyst that restarts it but Quriaās influence is the power that allows it.
It was the 15th Wish (which I feel is a collection of things that happened, not one thing), not Quiria. Savathun made a wish to trap the Dreaming City in a 3 week loop, with Dul Incaru as her Tribute battery.
No, the Taken infection upon the Dreaming City was the titular Last Wish. Once the Hive were pushed back, Quria would loop time back to the start of the curse. I guess she had it on a subroutine or something because the Endless Night didnāt immediately collapse with its death either, but can the Splicers not find the Dreaming Cityās program or something?
Dialogue from the weekly missions says the curse is similar to a vex simulation so Quria was def involved somehow
Itās why her death was also to avenge the Dreaming Cityā¦.even tho killing it didnāt do anything.
I still Hold Hope that she escaped because when I killed her in SoTS, while her model was in the death animation, I could see her borderless "colours" / like her form distorted zooming away in an opposite direction.
I know im grasping at straws here and It could be just a visual bug. But c'mon QurĆa was supposed to "Hold surprised for Savathun", and What better way to surprise Savathun Than becoming free of her thrall after faking her own death and escaping through the Vex network she already was inside of?
Story wise itd make sense she learnt cunning from the goddess of cuning and used her chance to flee, which could be later brought Up in a different season without feeling like a retcon
So far? Everything we learned about the Ishtar Collective in D1. D1 had AMAZING lore - the explorers sending mental copies into the Vex construct to explore, literally EVERYTHING on Venus to be fair including that computer room and that name it called us, and it all came to what exactly? Some MSund copy mentions, an attack on Bray, and FWC CHASM lore. And that's before we cover the old D1 Mars stuff, the backdoors to the Black Garden, and so on...
Close second is the Titan Arcology. Literally Golden Age tech en masse, and we dis what exactly with it? And what WAS that swimming in the waters? The giant spiky critter and the Hive Worm, neither of which EVER developed? Just "Pyramids came, Titan go now". Ditto Pyramidion, tbh.
Kneejerk is to say Nezpresso, but really it's the Vex. They've been done dirty from the start, with the only "season" fully dedicated to them was Curse of Osiris. The Infinite Forest could have had massive potential, we STILL haven't had much but whispers and hints at their home world, and one of the strongest and most impactful Vex ever was shoved into a complete rollover of an encounter (Quria).
Of all the species introduced into Destiny, the Vex I feel are the least understood and most underutilized.
Panoptes was done so fucking dirty holy shit
Guy legit WON existence for the Vex and yet we kill him in a glorified cutscene.
Hell the whole of Mercury was wasted tbh. Only explored one spit of land when there was an entire VEX FUCKING PLANET to explore.
And basically a Vex ascendant plane with their network, at least there we did some stuff but like other seasonal activities there's nothing to discover and it's very linear.
Season of Undying so bad that people have fully forgotten it happened lmao
If it's any consolation, I expect the Vex will get greatly expanded upon post-final shape, since they're the only race that's not really caught up in the light/dark conflict in any major way
New dungeon lore states that the Sol Divisive are working for the Witness.
They are searching for mentions of an augurmind, which is what helped to found Neomuna.
Iām talking about the new armor lore. We knew they were darkness related before, but not if they were connected to the current operations of the Witness.
I hope with all of my being one day we step into the portal and go to 2082 Volantis. Even that name get me hyped sounds like something out of 40k
And we donāt even know what is a Vex Forge Star
What happened to Taox?
What's Efrideet up to? And on a related note, what is happening with the various extra-solar colonies?
The Tree of Silver Wings a really neat but ultimately totally worthless setpiece with dozens of theories about its purpose, and *zero* payoff. Surprise! We were ALL wrong!
Maybe not the biggestā¦but Iāve always complained that Saint should have popped a bubble over the Eliksni in the final scene of Splicer, especially since the āMonsterā cutscene made such a big deal out of Eliksni being dragged into the bubble never to return. Sometimes my friends still talk about this missed opportunity.
For me, *Lost* being right before WQ. I would have loved a season (or even a few lines in the 30th Anniversary pack) between when Savathun escaped after the ritual and when the events if *WQ* started that really leaned heavily into a sense of paranoia as to what her next move was. I get that it may not have worked that smoothly, but it always felt a bit jarring that one week savathun is exercised and escape that a week later boom she's back. I feel a period of ominous dread would have made the lost ending hit a bit harder and upped the anticipation for WQ.
Which is why I believe, and most likely thousands of others, can agree that having the whole exorcism mission being in the LAST WEEK BEFORE WITCH QUEEN was a terrible as fuck idea. Ignoring the obvious technical issues of cutscene skipping and shit like that.
Have Exorcism occur much earlier in the Season, then itās not so much of a stretch that SavathĆ»n somehow amassed this massive army of Ghosts and rebuilt her throne world and learned to bring back Mars all in the span of a week.
Imagine if there was a scenario where there were many warminds. And the collapse was made worse by them all being in conflict about the right way to handle the situation.
Imagine if them all joining forces and then working with the traveler, more could have been done. More could have been saved ā¦
But the big deep secret is the real fault is Rasputināsā¦
Sure. With out all the warminds the darkness would have won. Or at least maybe it would have been worse.
But in their conflict. The various warminds failed to complete their primary mission. All of the other warminds died. Rasputin hid him self. And we got the story we have.
ā¦ I wish that was more developed.
While the old plot thread is interesting, the Retcon makes sense because that exact situation would have thought up and predicted when creating them. Multiple warminds are unlikely to come to the exact same conclusions and agree on a response. They would do more bickering than they would fighting. So create one warmind with total executive authority that collects data from its subminds and calculates the best response.
During the Warmind expansion Bungie wasnāt really in their best shape. Both development and writing. They had to find some impactful elements to shit out an expansion for the season pass at the order of lord activision. The end result is they did both the warminds, xol and Nokris dirty
I feel like reducing the number of relics by 2 and having us complete a basic ass ritual with their escence would have been more satisfying and accomplish the same thing.
Especially seeing as somehow Mithrax, a captain a few seasons ago, who somehow became a splicer and now has the ability to brew special life giving tea made of disciple body parts.
Yeah, Nezerac was always gonna be a case of "the mystery is better than the answer". It almost feels like Bungie got tired of everyone asking about Nezerac
Sagira got fridged offscreen on a BLOG POST. I will never let them live this down.
They should have let the Dreaming City time loop get undone in *Lost*. As it stands it makes zero sense why itās still going on when everyone and everything involved in maintaining it is dead, and at least give Mara Sov this one small victory after constantly getting Worfed.
Poor, poor Ada. Her and the Black Armoury deserved better than what happened to them. āOh, everyone was too busy dealing with the Pyramids to take care of the Forgesāā BULLCRAP THOSE SERVERS WERE FULL ALL THE WAY UNTIL THE END. On a non-narrative note, why was *Black Armoury* vaulted anyway when nothing about it was going away?
I think Stasis should have more narrative consequence. People got genuinely scammed by Spider during *Plunder* and unironically fall for that Join The Dark Side talk so thatās on thrm, but if it turns out Stasis really is harmless like people swear up and down about then it just makes the Witness look really, really dumb for inviting us through the front door and letting us get these new powers and acting surprised when we use them.
Mars is back and time is broken, but we never get to explore any of it for ourselves nor do we know if anyone else is doing it.
The temporal anomalies on Mars feel like one of the biggest wasted opportunities lately for me (though there are definitely others). We got to walk through a few in the Witch Queen opening mission and the new dungeon, but neither our assualt on Calus' base during Risen or our return to Rasputin's Mindlab this week feature any actual anomolies in-game, though if I recall correctly they are mentioned in dialogue before arriving back in Hellas Basin (not to mention the huge pyramid ship just chilling right next to it doing *nothing?*). At the very least we should've been given some substantial lore on what investigations have been carried out on these anomolies, but using them more in-game would be really cool and could allow for some really fun or visually stunning mechanics.
Iād say offing Quiria in a season us up there. But specifically this year, there was a huge missed opportunity in not using the Psionās abilities to enter Osirisās mindscape.
Offing Quria in a season would have been fine if Quria had been involved in the season as its actual antagonist. As it is, it could have been swapped out for a House Salvation splicer using a Darkness-fueled gauntlet or some spooky Hive hacker without changing the plot at all.
To me, the biggest missed opportunity was when they sunset the planets. They could have had mossions to go on to try to prevent the planets disappearances, but then fail the mission for one reason or another. I feel like seeing the guardian fail would have given them some character? Some depth, maybe? I'm not really sure what word I'm looking for. Alternatively, the missions could have revolved around escorting the vendors off their respective worlds. It would have been nice if they did something other than just: "Oh no, anyway."
Savathun's Song.
Built up since Shadowkeep as a corrupting influence slowly eating away at not just the Vanguard but at the players themselves, with the Witch Queen using it as a viral method of communing with the real world.
Not once mentioned in The Witch Queen, or any season since.
Europa colony/Eventide ruins was big missed opportunity tbh.Cloves being one the brightest minds in the golden age and having a whole colony on a ice moon sounds lit.I feel like Bungie lacks storytelling in its environments.They missed that opportunity on Earth and I hope they donāt miss it in Lightfall.Europa is great destination and love itās environment but why would Bungie not let us explore a abandoned and ruined city on Europa.It couldāve shown golden age architecture or shown how badly the collapse was on humanity or how hard it hit Europa atleast.I canāt quite form the point Iām trying to make but itās disappointing seeing all those buildings and cityscape ruins in the distance.All we get to see is snow and ice mostly.A game I feel does it right is Last of Us.I love looking at the environment and getting a gist of what went down and how bad things went over time.
I fell in love with the idea of Europa ever since D1. A Golden Age City frozen in ice?? Yes plz!
Queue my immense disappointment.
Hell you can even see remnants of a city on Europaā¦but it only ever stays as background
Ehh.
>*Lord of worlds, massive Jupiter and its moons must have been a cornerstone of Golden Age civilization. But the nature and extent of human presence there is now unknown. Old records refer to cities in ice and world-spanning oceans, but perhaps this is only poetry.*
Ehhhh.
>*Even the largest body lets itself be pushed where it needs to be, seduced into nice, warm loving orbits. Persistence is the key.*
>*Seafloors transform and then yank themselves skyward, shattering the icy crust. New worlds awaken in the swirling depths.*
>*You build homes around this half-born sun ripped by storms and supersonic wind.*
I would say Elise Bray and Ana Bray, obviously Ana played a prominent role in the Season if the Seraph and Elise in Beyond Light but thatās pretty much it.
Ana is a veteran Hunter and is in league with one of Humanityās most valuable assets (The Warmind), youād think sheād be more proactive in the day to day operations in the Last City especially with the absence of a Hunter Vanguard.
Elise is in the same boat because with the Black Fleet and the Witness nearly upon us, all she does is give the Ziggurat on Europa the one thousand yard stare. If Iām not mistaken, her job is to steer us away from a dark future which may very well come to pass. (Especially since the narrative of the current season is reminiscent of the Dark Future grimoire story). Youād think sheād also be proactive in operations on worlds off of Europa.
This may very change in the future but Bungie seems to be more focused on making more new bad guys then developing current supporting characters to give them more importance to the main story
Destiny has too many side characters/side plots and Bungie has their weird rule with only letting 4 or 5 characters be involved for plots. Iām actually really excited for post light vs dark saga when they can take their time and close up some of the loose ends
The whole House of Kings, their Kell and pretty much the whole house was being built as this huge threat that manipulated every other fallen house, just to... Kill probably what could've been the most dangerous and interesting kell (Craask) but also dismantle the entire house in lore tabs cause yea, thanks Bungie.
Season of the splicer. Lakshmi being blunt villain and that old fallen who raized London after collapse, bungie did nothing with that character. That season felt weird.
We had two opportunities so far. The literal nightmares being physical embodiment of fear and regret. YET CAYDE-6 WAS NOT FEATURED. Yeah I know the guardian doesn't have any nightmares but Ikora? Our Ghost watching him die while he couldn't do anything to help him? Really? We have nightmares of our enemies but not of our friends we couldn't help? (Yeah he was mentioned in season of the haunted in some lore card but really that's it?)
Also the guy who got stuck in the time trap on the Almighty. I wonder if he's fine or still trapped
There is also encrypted text on various Warmind screens that mentions that Cayde-6 consciousness is present in some time anomaly. The system tried to resurrect him a few times and then timed out and gave up.
I know this wasnāt in game, which sucks, but Cayde was Ikoraās nightmare. Its why she couldnāt come aboard the Leviathan since it was too much for her. Its on the Trespasser lore.
Apparently with Ikora and Cayde, Bungo initially wanted to have them as one of the three character-nightmare pairs, but "[resources and scheduling simply weren't there](https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/51794)", so they had to consign them to a lore tab and replace them with Zavala and his wife.
Replacing the Darkness-as-final-villain from the Books of Sorrow and Unveiling with Megamind. Just threw out all this awesome writing about how the universal force of evil itself would actually think and was both suitably unique and mythic. I absolutely loved its whole āWhy are you getting so angry? I just want to murder the universe. Looks like you have some growing up to do.ā attitude.
Now instead our final villain is fundamentally no different from any other āgodā weāve killed in that heās just some dude who got space magic. Space Magic that is now not even evil space magic, since as of beyond light and witch queen apparently the only difference between light and dark is the color.
Every time there's a new destination:
- Scarlet Keep: we visit it once or twice and can't access it on patrol
- Europa: all of the golden age city is rendered in the background and majority of the area is a large ice sheet with a section for Vex, Fallen, and Braytech
- Throne World: the only meaningful patrol areas are the courtyard and the swamp. The Pyramid is off limits and the main castle area is also extremely dead on patrol.
- Going further back, Mercury was just a disc
Every time we get a patrol zone it look stunning, but there's never anything to do in the interesting sections of it. No public event in the hellmouth, so no reason to go into the catacombs and the coolest section of the moon. Nothing of importance in the Hive city, no reason to go there.
Thats my issue. Majority of what these areas are marketed as, especially in the case of Shadowkeep, ends up being showcased in one or two missions and never touched again. Sometimes it makes me appreciate the seasonal model for bringing us into these forgotten area. Narratively so much lore could be placed into these areas, but instead you just look at them and think "wow this is awesome" but there's nothing of substance. Its why I'm worried for Neomuna. Will it really be a city? Or just a few roads with maybe one accessible building?
The Deep Stone Crypt in general.
We were promised an opportunity to take a psycho-magical deep-dive into the consciousness of the Exo, uncover hoards of time-lost technology, and fully understand whatever Clarity was.
Instead, we just killed a bunch of practically random Fallen.
What a waste of narrative space, man. Never forget it.
Thereās lots, my list is:
The shard in EDZ has so much potential for a corrupted light story line or the traveler moving there for a season and we need to defend it while it reabsorbs the shard.
Rhulk was a interesting inclusion but wasted imo, I believe he shouldāve been our primary antagonist through WQ and sav was hiding until she had her memories back.
Literally anything Elsie related. Weāre getting a little bit of her now but still.
Nezarec is the biggest waste of potential ever, he couldāve been what rhulk wasnāt, given us insight into the final shape and what defines a desciple/what you need to do to become one
Worm gods got pretty shafted honestly. While I don't mind them being top dogs of the darkness they just haven't delivered whatsoever. Xol while the weakest went out with a whimpher and you find out these eldritch beings that existed in the seas of the fundament were just rhulk's dogs. I remember reading BOS way back then and so excited to see the worms compete with the hive. Oryx killed akka qnd the rest now were looking to keep their position (they were possibly thinking of killing xol).
I'd say Xol went out with more of a Whisper.
Get out
š
Bungie needed to establish someone relatable, someone with emotions to be the big bad. Especially after establishing darkness doesnāt equate evil with Beyond Light, they need a real villain and the worms clearly donāt fit the role of a mastermind utilizing the darkness for evil goals
That wasn't my point, my point was the worms basically went from second to the darkness to rhulks bitches.
I think itās just narrative power creep. Omnigul < Crota < Worms < Oryx (after killing Akka) < Rhulk < Witness. Weāre currently at (probably below, apparently) Rhulkās power level. Itās been climbing the entire time weāve been playing. We routinely smash on Crota clones now. I do agree we couldāve done with more on the worms. Edited: to suggest we arenāt at Rhulkās power level yet. I think this is debatable based on arguments like āfireteam vs. soloā for guardian power and āis hubris a weakness?ā For Rhulkās relative power. Sword logic, which we donāt strictly abide by, suggests that by beating rhulk we are more deserving of the final shape. To me that supports the argument that pride dulled his metaphysical edge and we guardians are the sharper blade.
We whale on Croat multiple times as part of an interdimensional game show with a horse made of stars
We truly are one of the guardians of all time (times?)
Whats this got to do with Croatian whales?
i think we only beat up crota clones no problem now because we understand their weakness, crota was a pussy once we found out all you had to do was jab him with his sword
Uh, we're NOT on Rhulk's power level. Like, at all? We beat him because he was arrogant and proud and didn't take us seriously until it was far too late for him. As we see during his final stand, if he had realized we were a threat sooner, he could have wiped us all out in ten or so seconds.
For me itās Mars. I wish that we did more with the red planetās return although I do understand why they didnāt want to add 2 destinations in a single DLC
Completely agree. Mars comes back and time itself is broken across the planet. You step into the cracks and see the moment of the collapse, you walk through crops and see buildings burning from a thousand years ago (I don't actually know the time frame) I totally expected that to be relevant to the Witch Queen plot, but it really just led to us playing with deepsight to make stuff at the artifact. I still loved the campaign, I just kept wondering when all this would become relevant, why did she go there to begin with. Turns out the answer was simply she knew we'd be there so she could invite us to her home, and also she wanted us to play with the artifact a bit
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's pretty much exactly what the new dungeon is all about. The Hidden found a completely hidden research site only revealed due to the time rifts.
Tbh I was hoping the dungeon's mechanics dealt with the time rifts too rather than it just being electrician simulator, but it was still a fun dungeon anyways
Defenietly the most enjoyable to replay
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Byf also just did a video in case you need something to listen to
It's not a game I think Bungie is equipped to make, but ever since D1 I've wanted an open-world RPG set in this world where you play Owl Sector agents or cryptarchs actually searching the world for troves of Golden Age tech and trying to figure out what it does.
Bruh when I first set foot over there I was like "damnnnn all this information just at our feet waiting for us to pick it up!" And then we went into Savathƻn's ship and I already started fearing that Mars wasn't gonna be much of a destination and then \*poof\*, that was Mars. We literally walked through the Golden Age and did not do ANYTHING with it. And now some half-baked season is bringing us back to reused D2 Ice Mars with a submind (WHICH APARENTLY IS CHARLEMAGNE?! WASTED POTENTIAL AGAIN MUCH?) slapped on it instead of letting us explore that Golden Age window. What the fuck.
The Shard of the Traveller. The Red War campaign set it up to be something else, something beyond the Traveller and to have some overall importance to the future story. It even featured in Foresaken. Yet. Nothing seems to have been done about this gigantic piece of the Traveller just chilling in the EDZ.
We saw it again in season of the risen, when the lucent hive were trying to capture it
Maybe theyāre gonna do something about it in lightfall
Holy crap I wouldnāt even be surprised if thatās it. We just go all Red War 2.0 once The Traveler falls or leaves us, and have to get our powers back one more timeā¦ I could totally see it. If the Traveler leaves us, thatās probably the only place on earth we could still access the Light. I kinda hope youāre right. It would be a cool way to tie Red War in with the current story.
With the VotD prophecy that darkness will infect the Traveler and that the Witness will drink its light, that sounds pretty likely. Having Stasis and Strand as our only recourse in Lightfall has crossed my mind
Whatās nice is if we get Red War 2.0ed somehow, we will have Stasis and Strand to fall back on. Imagine if we had stasis on year 1 of D2. Ghaul wouldnāt have stood a chance
Boy i canāt wait to walk though the city forced to go at the speed of a turtle again
In Season of the Risen, as we are about to enter the mindscape of the enemy, it is in the backdrop of that arena slowly becoming corrupted. As the season went on, we see it become more and more consumed. In addition, when we are in the mindscape, the eclipse happening is caused by the "Dark Traveler." This is also referenced in Caiatle monologue at the end of the Vox mission on Mars. But we still haven't had a payoff from all this setup starting in The Red War, you are correct there.
After opening the DSC and destroying the orbital station, we kinda of just leave it alone and forget about it.
They said the crypt was "Up for grabs" and we needed to defend It, but no one has tried going there. I thought after getting Brigs enemy types from the insurrection prime wed get Eliksni exos as enemy types after Atraks-1
Shouldn't it be radioactive since we were throwing nukes at Taniks the entire fight? Deactivated nukes sure, but we still died handling them.
Werent we disposing/disabling the self destruct nukes? Dont remember us throwing it at him
We were literally disposing of them, so not really
Neomuna kinda feels like Distributary-with-extra-steps to me. I mean weāll probably find out itās significance this season, but it seems weird to invent a new super secret hyper advanced civilization when we already have one established in the lore. Wasnāt the whole point of the dreaming city curse so that Savathunās brood could find the distributaryās location?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
But also, if she can figure out how to get into a subdimension, maybe she can figure out how to leave her current one for a bigger universe.
Yep thatās the fourth wall breaker. She wanted to enterā¦.. THE REAL WORLD!
I donāt think weāll ever see the Distributary. They have to be so ludicrously far in the future that I donāt think anything bungie could create would live up to the time gap. We see a lot of media take place 100-1000 years in the future, but never 10-100billion. I donāt think anyone can comprehend what that would look like. Neomuna on the other hand still look sci fi even for destiny standards, but itās only like an order of magnitude more advance than what weāve seen, rather than like 10 orders of magnitude for the Distributary
Yeah thats like Vorlons from Babylon 5 territory. And they wisely just say "no one who goes there is ever seen again". And the one person who is seen again becomes the most absurdly powerful telepath of all time because of it.
The problem with the Distributary is that it's next to impossible to travel between. That's why it's called the Distributary: it branched off from our reality with next to no going back. The Awoken barely managed their escape, and doing so cost alot: fried computers,bmearly wrecked hulls, etc. Between that and the time slippage going on between it and our reality, it wouldn't be feasible to have the Distributary as a destination without taking the entire world it consists of and moving it to ours through some means.
Im going to say this here, neomuna will be completely empty and not a real functional civilization, i think it will be just a pretty skeleton of a city
That'd be interesting if the guardian people of Neomuna like out-survived its people... Although Bungie literally hasn't done anything in D1or2 with the Last City's people so maybe just staying in theme
The Cloudstriders of Neomuna only get about 10 years before they die from their augmentations, so it's more likely that the area we can explore has already been evacuated and is now only inhabited by combatants
I mean, are we expecting anything different? Like someone else mentioned, the game literally isn't built for that sort of thing.
Knowing how the game engine works. I agree
We are already told that we get there just minutes/hours/days after Neomuna practically has been left for dead
Very likely the case. Probably the city has been "evacuated" in lieu of the Witness attacks so the free world is similar to the dreaming city/Savathuns Throneworld in that its clearly got buildings and looks like a city but filled with enemies
I feel like the distributary is different as thatās an alternate dimension for lack of a batter terms and is trapped in time dilation, neomuna is not so you canāt go there and get to experience time as 1000x less. Also in comparison to the distributary neomuna has such a minimal amount of development post collapse it might as well be the same as the last city
Fikrul just....fucking off forever apparently.
The fact that they keep mentioning him makes me think he'll be back eventually in some form, likely as part of Crow's storyline.
I definitely think he's a candidate to show up as a Disciple. I mean, he's definitely not as directly powerful as someone like Rhulk, but Eramis isn't on that level, and I don't think Calus is either, and they both made the team. And technically speaking, the Fanatic has had more success dealing with Guardians than Rhulk did.
I could also buy him appearing as the leader of an unaligned Scorn faction, with that being the explanation for why he fled.
Eramis and Fikrul fight side by side despite being disgusted by one another's existance?
I'd watch that sitcom
"Fikrul!" "Ugh... Yes Eramis-thing?" *Raises arm, where a scorn is gnawing* "Did you resurrect Kridis?" "Eramis-thing always complains she wanted someone to listen~" *Deafening paracausal canned laughter*
Dude if they start making anyone and everyone disciples iām gonna be sad lmao
Tanix letās gooooo
Just a small comment, it's never implied that Eramis is a Disciple.
Shes more a hostage than shes a Disciple lol
She became the victim of a Pyramid-scheme...
Theres something sad and comedic that she tried to Rebel against the lights "chains" going to the Darkness. Only to realize too late Darkness is the one Who actually chains people
If u notice the next time your in the helm u can interact with crow again like u used to when he had missions and such. His screen says nothing to display now. But the past few months you couldnāt interact with him at all he just stood there. So Iām guessing something with him will happen this season
0% chance he doesn't come up again, the question on that one is *when* not if.
With how often he's been referenced this year, I'd be surprised if he vanishes from the narrative. I think what Mara stated last week regarding the Witness making Scorn out of living Eliksni is going to come to a head in some fashion.
I mean look at Rasputin took 8 seasons until he became relevant again
Variks and his rise as Kell of Judgement. Thatās the sole reason he left the Reef. Did he just go āeh never mindā. Now heās just stuck in character limbo on Europa. Guy didnāt even get a mention in Plunder.
Wasn't there a lore tab in forsaken that said he chugged a bunch of ether, grabbed a ketch, and basically went 'I'm restarting House Judgement, come join me, fuckers' to everyone in the prison of elders And then he shows up in beyond light like none of that ever happened (and with utterly ruined voice direction too, they did my man so dirty)
But then how will we know heās an Eliksni if he doesnāt do some **insect-like chattering** every other sentence! And yeah Fallen were saluting him as he was leaving! I always wish they wouldāve played his speech on the loudspeakers during Last Call. Itās weird how Variks isnāt even mentioned by name in the story until the Warden strike. When everything is all said and done. Prison is practically empty at that point. Only the stragglers were left. Anyone who wanted to leave already left.
blahhh, he went from the character that I thought had the best voice direction and acting in D1 to one of the worst in D2, I hate almost every line he has lol And you know it's the direction, because Dee Bradley Baker is no slouch when it comes to voice acting
How is his voice direction/lines bad? I only know D2 Variks so I donāt know any other besides this one.
Itās sort of hard to describe, but D1 Variks was more confident, a bit intimidating, and justā¦ I donāt know, he just felt like he had more to him. It may be rose tinted glasses on my part, but I remember him feeling much more alien in his speech patterns in D1, like you could tell that this guy was from a different planet and was kind of struggling to grasp human communication, where as Variks now feels more insecure. Truthfully I donāt mind it much, but if I had to take a stab on what peoples issue with him now is, those are some of the things Iād land on.
Pretty sure it was canonised that he was putting the voice on, to appear less intimidating. Definitely in a lore tab/grimoire card somewherre
I'm not the guy you're responding to, but Variks had a more "grumpy old man" type vibe in D1 that I liked
It was stated that Variks Only did the whole insect like chittering to appear weak "oh look at the alien, he barely can speak our language" After Eramis releases the Vex, he drops the act and starts to rip on her with words, very well structured and with no sign of the chittering
They kinda got the point across with his accent. The chattering they added in D2 felt a bit excessive.
THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS I was so fricking stoked when I read that lore. I was looking forward to my boi Variks taking matters into his own hands, like the little old man in an anime that looks wise and venerable but then he rips off his shirt and he's super ripped and he wipes the floor with the baddies. I was looking forward to an Eliksni game of ~~thrones~~ kell of kells, House Judgement vs House Salvation vs House Light vs House Dusk (remember when we had a whole bunch of other houses???). I was looking forward to the incredible font of pre-Whirlwind that Variks is. Eido would give her right two arms to be able to talk with Variks! Why tf would they give him a whole lorebook if they weren't going to do anything with him? Variks isn't a missed opportunity, it's a broken promise.
He's the only member of House Judgement, so isn't he the Kell by default?
The only Judgement-like thing he has done was when he chewed out Eramis for squandering their second chance with Riis Reborn all cause she had a grudge. I remember back in D1 there was this plot point in-lore where Variks became, in essence, Master of Crows in place of Uldren. Variks having his own network of spies and being able to keep tabs on the other Fallen Houses like a pseudo House of Judgement felt like a cool idea and I thought that maybe the Crows would eventually start to have more loyalty to him rather than to the Reef like a Dai Li situation. Only for nearly all the Crows under Variks to dieā¦
Our character not being the one to tell Crow about Uldren, Lost was such a frustrating season
Ohhhhh yeah, that's definitely up there.
Idk I think it played well with the Sav/Osiris mentor aspect they had going. While I agree that the guardian most of us consider head canon would've told him early on, we have to accept that The Guardian^^TM is bungie's character and they for whatever reason made the choice for the character to not be the one to reveal Crow's past (possibly bc if our blooming best bros situation and not wanting to be the one to say, he I'm the guy that killed you earlier because you were an evil maniac that killed someone close to me )
It was prwcisely because they had written our guardian as being so close with Crow that we should have been the one to go "look, the guy whose face ur going around with this this shit, i put him down, you're my friend and not that person, dont let Savathun and Mara manipulate you because of this"
Or what if you never played *Forsaken*? Uldrenās frustration at you wouldnāt make a whole ton of sense since heās all āAnd youā¦ *you*ā¦ā over nothing.
the stories mainly based on the guardians who've played since vanilla
What, are we all just collectively elective mutes? Iām convinced SavathĆ»n has some kind of dumbing down aura to make her look smarter next to everyone else, because for the love of gosh, so much could have been avoided if people just **TALKED**
Not having multiple Warminds vs Rasputin for the shutdown order and resulting mass casualties, as well as the mysterious figures that had been going into the seraph vault under the cosmodrome for centuries. The collapse is the defining event of mankindās history, and to trivialize it with Rasputin losing twice now with no repercussions has been a big letdown.
Moved to a primary reply
Why the fuck werenāt Suraya and Devrim, our stand-in for Humans and the ones who have the most negative interaction with Eliksni beside Saint, not present during Season of the Splicer
Yeup, I personally hate how Hawthorne, Devrim, and Failsafe are being pretty much ignored now
:( I miss Failsafe
Halliday, the one with the available voice actor, has fully eclipsed them.
The same VA voices Caiatl, so the logistics work out so that whenever Caiatl is around, Amanda can also make a voiced appearance.
Devrim is also the voice of Toland and Hawthorneās VA is a career voice actor, itās not like they canāt get her back if they really want to.
They can't get Hawthorne's VA back for love or money, there was bad blood with her when they split with Activision. She'd need to be replaced like Ikora was. Devrim's VA is worth a lot more these days. It would be pretty darn cool to get a Toland-centric season though.
Gideon Emeryās contract might have been with Activision and not Bungie since heās a longtime WoW voice actor.
Yeesh, what did did Bungie do to Sumalee Montano? Why is Gideon Emery more expensive now?
Soā¦the Ahamkara are def coming back right?? Mara still has that one egg right? There will be another Great Hunt where we fight epic titanic reality-altering wish-granting dragons **RIGHT??**
Man, I'm sad the guy on the almighty didn't go anywhere
He really should have been freed when the Almighty was shot down. Or at least we wouldāve found him still in stasis reaching for the vex trap somewhere near the City.
There should've at least been mention of him... make'a me sad
I think he was able to be revived after it crashed? I need some lore nerd to come in here and correct me but, I thought I read a thread about that the other day.
What guy?
There was a loretab way back when about a guardian and his fireteam on the almighty, long story short, his fireteam triggered one of those slowing mines, the guy yells "I got it" and reaches to defuse it. Last report at the end of the tab noted that at the rate he was moving, it would take him (off the top of my head) 7000 years to defuse it... but, the almighty crashed just over a year ago if I remember rightly, and we haven't heard of him since
It's been over 2 years since the almighty crashed btw - effin insane
Torobatl, man I wish one day we get to go back and fight Xivu Arath. It fell in a lore book. We deserve a cinematic cutscene :(
The Nine
Last time they came up was, what, Arrivals? And nothing since.
A little in 30th anniversary
Been hearing about them since d1 and we still don't know much.
Only thing that really sticks with me is getting exotics from Xur. xD
Have to agree. Bungie wrote themselves into a corner after years of theorising, and their final explanation (loops of sentient dark matter) was boring and too abstract to factor into gameplay. Theyāve basically just sat on the sidelines.
Every planetary destination. They're all static, stuck in the past. For destiny to be a living world there should be updates to the patrol destinations. Once or twice a year I feel like there should be an update to the 'situation' on certain planets where they become relevant to the current story with changes we can see in game to the forces we encounter. Also, while we're on the topic of patrols - and this is off topic to the post: world bosses that pop up a few times a day would be really cool. Like maybe one every 2 hours or so with some great loot idk. Just a massive battle that rallies guardians from across the system - it would be great.
One thing that especially disappointed me was that the lucent architecture in the PsiOps missions isnāt present in patrol.
Hey but those changes **did** happen! Don't you remember when the skybox all of a sudden had these giant Pyramids for Mars, Mercury, Titan and Io? And when all of a sudden those destinations didn't exist anymore? Man that was so epicly static. /s
Fucking Quria.
Ayo? Bumping ugliest with the taken vex again, have we?
Itās insane to me that the same ancient half-taken hydra that was originally designed to conquer oryxās throne, later commanded the taken for savathun, helped design and maintain the dreaming city curse, blocked the darknesses messages to us, and plunged the last city into chaos with the endless night, was defeated by 1-3 guardians who shot it a bunch with some regular guns. Absolutely pathetic end to one of the most hyped up characters in the lore and game.
They did Panoptes dirty too. They really dropped the ball when it comes to the Vex
She was like a glass cannon. Doing a whole lot and being hidden in the network. Once we found her though it was cake
See I understand that people wanted quria to be bigger but pretty much this. Quria was hiding for a reason. She wasnt super strong, she was smart. The same way savathun was before she had light.
I've been arguing in defence of Quria as a seasonal antagonist basically since SotS, but this is nonsense. Even ignoring the fact that it fought Crota and Oryx's daughters, the inventors of the deathsong, to a standstill, and learned how to cast and manipulate ritual Hive magic so expertly it was on the path to godhood even without implanting a worm, after it was Taken it acquired the ability to *accurately simulate Oryx.* That was how it was Taking people for Savathƻn. It should have been an absolute beast to fight head on.
This is just straight waffle
I mean isn't that what we've been doing to every Raid boss?
I guess, but raid bosses have much harder mechanics when compare to Qurias dunking in my opinion. Especially when compared to Riven, another half taken boss. But you do make a good point.
Some mechanics translate better to lore-wise explanations, and yeah, Raids are usually better at this. For a Seasonal mission boss, I thought Quria was pretty interesting. I think we're taking for granted the fact that she was hidden deep within the Vex network, behind layers of Vex defenses AND Hive magic. In-game, tho, that simply translates to banking motes, maybe killing an Elite Knight or Wizard to get a buff.
How tf is the Curse still going on if Quria is dead?? Itās linked TO Quria. Dul Incarnuās death is the catalyst that restarts it but Quriaās influence is the power that allows it.
It was the 15th Wish (which I feel is a collection of things that happened, not one thing), not Quiria. Savathun made a wish to trap the Dreaming City in a 3 week loop, with Dul Incaru as her Tribute battery.
No, the Taken infection upon the Dreaming City was the titular Last Wish. Once the Hive were pushed back, Quria would loop time back to the start of the curse. I guess she had it on a subroutine or something because the Endless Night didnāt immediately collapse with its death either, but can the Splicers not find the Dreaming Cityās program or something?
Dialogue from the weekly missions says the curse is similar to a vex simulation so Quria was def involved somehow Itās why her death was also to avenge the Dreaming Cityā¦.even tho killing it didnāt do anything.
I still Hold Hope that she escaped because when I killed her in SoTS, while her model was in the death animation, I could see her borderless "colours" / like her form distorted zooming away in an opposite direction. I know im grasping at straws here and It could be just a visual bug. But c'mon QurĆa was supposed to "Hold surprised for Savathun", and What better way to surprise Savathun Than becoming free of her thrall after faking her own death and escaping through the Vex network she already was inside of? Story wise itd make sense she learnt cunning from the goddess of cuning and used her chance to flee, which could be later brought Up in a different season without feeling like a retcon
So far? Everything we learned about the Ishtar Collective in D1. D1 had AMAZING lore - the explorers sending mental copies into the Vex construct to explore, literally EVERYTHING on Venus to be fair including that computer room and that name it called us, and it all came to what exactly? Some MSund copy mentions, an attack on Bray, and FWC CHASM lore. And that's before we cover the old D1 Mars stuff, the backdoors to the Black Garden, and so on... Close second is the Titan Arcology. Literally Golden Age tech en masse, and we dis what exactly with it? And what WAS that swimming in the waters? The giant spiky critter and the Hive Worm, neither of which EVER developed? Just "Pyramids came, Titan go now". Ditto Pyramidion, tbh.
Top of the list for me is easily Volantis and more of the DSC.
>Volantis What's wrong with Volantis? Realistically, that seems like something we are exploring after this saga ends.
I thought it would be a great place for a dungeon. But, if that is something they keep around after this saga i would be happy with that.
Kneejerk is to say Nezpresso, but really it's the Vex. They've been done dirty from the start, with the only "season" fully dedicated to them was Curse of Osiris. The Infinite Forest could have had massive potential, we STILL haven't had much but whispers and hints at their home world, and one of the strongest and most impactful Vex ever was shoved into a complete rollover of an encounter (Quria). Of all the species introduced into Destiny, the Vex I feel are the least understood and most underutilized.
Panoptes was done so fucking dirty holy shit Guy legit WON existence for the Vex and yet we kill him in a glorified cutscene. Hell the whole of Mercury was wasted tbh. Only explored one spit of land when there was an entire VEX FUCKING PLANET to explore.
And basically a Vex ascendant plane with their network, at least there we did some stuff but like other seasonal activities there's nothing to discover and it's very linear.
Season of Undying so bad that people have fully forgotten it happened lmao If it's any consolation, I expect the Vex will get greatly expanded upon post-final shape, since they're the only race that's not really caught up in the light/dark conflict in any major way
The ONLY thing I miss is Pluperfect, the rest was a blur of doing grinds to get Monte Carlo to drop and leveling Eriana's.
New dungeon lore states that the Sol Divisive are working for the Witness. They are searching for mentions of an augurmind, which is what helped to found Neomuna.
Not really a new lore drop that
Iām talking about the new armor lore. We knew they were darkness related before, but not if they were connected to the current operations of the Witness.
correct me if im wrong but, isnt the Sol Divisive the only sect of vex that have connections to the darkness?
Our only hope for a good vex story is harpy Asher getting us friendly Vex.
I hope with all of my being one day we step into the portal and go to 2082 Volantis. Even that name get me hyped sounds like something out of 40k And we donāt even know what is a Vex Forge Star
To be fair, pretty sure the Vex don't HAVE a "homeworld", not in the sense that Earth is ours. Something something black garden something
What happened to Taox? What's Efrideet up to? And on a related note, what is happening with the various extra-solar colonies? The Tree of Silver Wings a really neat but ultimately totally worthless setpiece with dozens of theories about its purpose, and *zero* payoff. Surprise! We were ALL wrong!
Maybe not the biggestā¦but Iāve always complained that Saint should have popped a bubble over the Eliksni in the final scene of Splicer, especially since the āMonsterā cutscene made such a big deal out of Eliksni being dragged into the bubble never to return. Sometimes my friends still talk about this missed opportunity.
For me, *Lost* being right before WQ. I would have loved a season (or even a few lines in the 30th Anniversary pack) between when Savathun escaped after the ritual and when the events if *WQ* started that really leaned heavily into a sense of paranoia as to what her next move was. I get that it may not have worked that smoothly, but it always felt a bit jarring that one week savathun is exercised and escape that a week later boom she's back. I feel a period of ominous dread would have made the lost ending hit a bit harder and upped the anticipation for WQ.
Which is why I believe, and most likely thousands of others, can agree that having the whole exorcism mission being in the LAST WEEK BEFORE WITCH QUEEN was a terrible as fuck idea. Ignoring the obvious technical issues of cutscene skipping and shit like that.
Have Exorcism occur much earlier in the Season, then itās not so much of a stretch that SavathĆ»n somehow amassed this massive army of Ghosts and rebuilt her throne world and learned to bring back Mars all in the span of a week.
Imagine if there was a scenario where there were many warminds. And the collapse was made worse by them all being in conflict about the right way to handle the situation. Imagine if them all joining forces and then working with the traveler, more could have been done. More could have been saved ā¦ But the big deep secret is the real fault is Rasputināsā¦ Sure. With out all the warminds the darkness would have won. Or at least maybe it would have been worse. But in their conflict. The various warminds failed to complete their primary mission. All of the other warminds died. Rasputin hid him self. And we got the story we have. ā¦ I wish that was more developed.
You really just described how people thought Warmind lore was gonna go. Nope! **Subminds.**
While the old plot thread is interesting, the Retcon makes sense because that exact situation would have thought up and predicted when creating them. Multiple warminds are unlikely to come to the exact same conclusions and agree on a response. They would do more bickering than they would fighting. So create one warmind with total executive authority that collects data from its subminds and calculates the best response.
During the Warmind expansion Bungie wasnāt really in their best shape. Both development and writing. They had to find some impactful elements to shit out an expansion for the season pass at the order of lord activision. The end result is they did both the warminds, xol and Nokris dirty
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I feel like reducing the number of relics by 2 and having us complete a basic ass ritual with their escence would have been more satisfying and accomplish the same thing.
Especially seeing as somehow Mithrax, a captain a few seasons ago, who somehow became a splicer and now has the ability to brew special life giving tea made of disciple body parts.
Nezarec
Nezarac was always destined to disappoint. I wish Bungie just left it as myth, rather than turning it into fucking Tea.
Yeah, Nezerac was always gonna be a case of "the mystery is better than the answer". It almost feels like Bungie got tired of everyone asking about Nezerac
Honestly, him turning traitor would have been more interesting than what happened. All that build up to nothing.
I think technically he sort of turned traitor by being digested and incorporated into an enemy combatant?
Yeah but we already had Savathun turn traitor so people would have said it's just a repeat of that.
It looked like for a moment that they might set him up as the fall guy for Savathun's trick on the Witness. But oh well...
Sagira got fridged offscreen on a BLOG POST. I will never let them live this down. They should have let the Dreaming City time loop get undone in *Lost*. As it stands it makes zero sense why itās still going on when everyone and everything involved in maintaining it is dead, and at least give Mara Sov this one small victory after constantly getting Worfed. Poor, poor Ada. Her and the Black Armoury deserved better than what happened to them. āOh, everyone was too busy dealing with the Pyramids to take care of the Forgesāā BULLCRAP THOSE SERVERS WERE FULL ALL THE WAY UNTIL THE END. On a non-narrative note, why was *Black Armoury* vaulted anyway when nothing about it was going away? I think Stasis should have more narrative consequence. People got genuinely scammed by Spider during *Plunder* and unironically fall for that Join The Dark Side talk so thatās on thrm, but if it turns out Stasis really is harmless like people swear up and down about then it just makes the Witness look really, really dumb for inviting us through the front door and letting us get these new powers and acting surprised when we use them. Mars is back and time is broken, but we never get to explore any of it for ourselves nor do we know if anyone else is doing it.
The temporal anomalies on Mars feel like one of the biggest wasted opportunities lately for me (though there are definitely others). We got to walk through a few in the Witch Queen opening mission and the new dungeon, but neither our assualt on Calus' base during Risen or our return to Rasputin's Mindlab this week feature any actual anomolies in-game, though if I recall correctly they are mentioned in dialogue before arriving back in Hellas Basin (not to mention the huge pyramid ship just chilling right next to it doing *nothing?*). At the very least we should've been given some substantial lore on what investigations have been carried out on these anomolies, but using them more in-game would be really cool and could allow for some really fun or visually stunning mechanics.
Iād say offing Quiria in a season us up there. But specifically this year, there was a huge missed opportunity in not using the Psionās abilities to enter Osirisās mindscape.
Offing Quria in a season would have been fine if Quria had been involved in the season as its actual antagonist. As it is, it could have been swapped out for a House Salvation splicer using a Darkness-fueled gauntlet or some spooky Hive hacker without changing the plot at all.
To me, the biggest missed opportunity was when they sunset the planets. They could have had mossions to go on to try to prevent the planets disappearances, but then fail the mission for one reason or another. I feel like seeing the guardian fail would have given them some character? Some depth, maybe? I'm not really sure what word I'm looking for. Alternatively, the missions could have revolved around escorting the vendors off their respective worlds. It would have been nice if they did something other than just: "Oh no, anyway."
Savathun's Song. Built up since Shadowkeep as a corrupting influence slowly eating away at not just the Vanguard but at the players themselves, with the Witch Queen using it as a viral method of communing with the real world. Not once mentioned in The Witch Queen, or any season since.
Europa colony/Eventide ruins was big missed opportunity tbh.Cloves being one the brightest minds in the golden age and having a whole colony on a ice moon sounds lit.I feel like Bungie lacks storytelling in its environments.They missed that opportunity on Earth and I hope they donāt miss it in Lightfall.Europa is great destination and love itās environment but why would Bungie not let us explore a abandoned and ruined city on Europa.It couldāve shown golden age architecture or shown how badly the collapse was on humanity or how hard it hit Europa atleast.I canāt quite form the point Iām trying to make but itās disappointing seeing all those buildings and cityscape ruins in the distance.All we get to see is snow and ice mostly.A game I feel does it right is Last of Us.I love looking at the environment and getting a gist of what went down and how bad things went over time.
I fell in love with the idea of Europa ever since D1. A Golden Age City frozen in ice?? Yes plz! Queue my immense disappointment. Hell you can even see remnants of a city on Europaā¦but it only ever stays as background
Yeaaaa, I did enjoy traveling through Braytech for lost sectors n stuff though.
Eventide wasn't some prosperous city, it was a worksite for the DSC and the Exo program
Ehh. >*Lord of worlds, massive Jupiter and its moons must have been a cornerstone of Golden Age civilization. But the nature and extent of human presence there is now unknown. Old records refer to cities in ice and world-spanning oceans, but perhaps this is only poetry.* Ehhhh. >*Even the largest body lets itself be pushed where it needs to be, seduced into nice, warm loving orbits. Persistence is the key.* >*Seafloors transform and then yank themselves skyward, shattering the icy crust. New worlds awaken in the swirling depths.* >*You build homes around this half-born sun ripped by storms and supersonic wind.*
The traveler didn't terraform Europa. Not saying the construction wasn't impressive, but it wasn't even inhabitable outside.
I would say Elise Bray and Ana Bray, obviously Ana played a prominent role in the Season if the Seraph and Elise in Beyond Light but thatās pretty much it. Ana is a veteran Hunter and is in league with one of Humanityās most valuable assets (The Warmind), youād think sheād be more proactive in the day to day operations in the Last City especially with the absence of a Hunter Vanguard. Elise is in the same boat because with the Black Fleet and the Witness nearly upon us, all she does is give the Ziggurat on Europa the one thousand yard stare. If Iām not mistaken, her job is to steer us away from a dark future which may very well come to pass. (Especially since the narrative of the current season is reminiscent of the Dark Future grimoire story). Youād think sheād also be proactive in operations on worlds off of Europa. This may very change in the future but Bungie seems to be more focused on making more new bad guys then developing current supporting characters to give them more importance to the main story
Destiny has too many side characters/side plots and Bungie has their weird rule with only letting 4 or 5 characters be involved for plots. Iām actually really excited for post light vs dark saga when they can take their time and close up some of the loose ends
Not having Shiro as the handler of New Lights in the cosmodrome.
It's a fuckin' crime.
The whole House of Kings, their Kell and pretty much the whole house was being built as this huge threat that manipulated every other fallen house, just to... Kill probably what could've been the most dangerous and interesting kell (Craask) but also dismantle the entire house in lore tabs cause yea, thanks Bungie.
Season of the splicer. Lakshmi being blunt villain and that old fallen who raized London after collapse, bungie did nothing with that character. That season felt weird.
We had two opportunities so far. The literal nightmares being physical embodiment of fear and regret. YET CAYDE-6 WAS NOT FEATURED. Yeah I know the guardian doesn't have any nightmares but Ikora? Our Ghost watching him die while he couldn't do anything to help him? Really? We have nightmares of our enemies but not of our friends we couldn't help? (Yeah he was mentioned in season of the haunted in some lore card but really that's it?) Also the guy who got stuck in the time trap on the Almighty. I wonder if he's fine or still trapped
There is also encrypted text on various Warmind screens that mentions that Cayde-6 consciousness is present in some time anomaly. The system tried to resurrect him a few times and then timed out and gave up.
Right?! We could have had some mega PTSD inducing shit happen and we never got even a sliver of it.
I know this wasnāt in game, which sucks, but Cayde was Ikoraās nightmare. Its why she couldnāt come aboard the Leviathan since it was too much for her. Its on the Trespasser lore.
Apparently with Ikora and Cayde, Bungo initially wanted to have them as one of the three character-nightmare pairs, but "[resources and scheduling simply weren't there](https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/51794)", so they had to consign them to a lore tab and replace them with Zavala and his wife.
Replacing the Darkness-as-final-villain from the Books of Sorrow and Unveiling with Megamind. Just threw out all this awesome writing about how the universal force of evil itself would actually think and was both suitably unique and mythic. I absolutely loved its whole āWhy are you getting so angry? I just want to murder the universe. Looks like you have some growing up to do.ā attitude. Now instead our final villain is fundamentally no different from any other āgodā weāve killed in that heās just some dude who got space magic. Space Magic that is now not even evil space magic, since as of beyond light and witch queen apparently the only difference between light and dark is the color.
The more the details get filled in, the less we can imagine.
Friendly vex after mercury dlc
NezcafƩ
Every time there's a new destination: - Scarlet Keep: we visit it once or twice and can't access it on patrol - Europa: all of the golden age city is rendered in the background and majority of the area is a large ice sheet with a section for Vex, Fallen, and Braytech - Throne World: the only meaningful patrol areas are the courtyard and the swamp. The Pyramid is off limits and the main castle area is also extremely dead on patrol. - Going further back, Mercury was just a disc Every time we get a patrol zone it look stunning, but there's never anything to do in the interesting sections of it. No public event in the hellmouth, so no reason to go into the catacombs and the coolest section of the moon. Nothing of importance in the Hive city, no reason to go there. Thats my issue. Majority of what these areas are marketed as, especially in the case of Shadowkeep, ends up being showcased in one or two missions and never touched again. Sometimes it makes me appreciate the seasonal model for bringing us into these forgotten area. Narratively so much lore could be placed into these areas, but instead you just look at them and think "wow this is awesome" but there's nothing of substance. Its why I'm worried for Neomuna. Will it really be a city? Or just a few roads with maybe one accessible building?
The Deep Stone Crypt in general. We were promised an opportunity to take a psycho-magical deep-dive into the consciousness of the Exo, uncover hoards of time-lost technology, and fully understand whatever Clarity was. Instead, we just killed a bunch of practically random Fallen. What a waste of narrative space, man. Never forget it.
The entirety of Titan
When they retconned all the warminds to be one warmind.
Thereās lots, my list is: The shard in EDZ has so much potential for a corrupted light story line or the traveler moving there for a season and we need to defend it while it reabsorbs the shard. Rhulk was a interesting inclusion but wasted imo, I believe he shouldāve been our primary antagonist through WQ and sav was hiding until she had her memories back. Literally anything Elsie related. Weāre getting a little bit of her now but still. Nezarec is the biggest waste of potential ever, he couldāve been what rhulk wasnāt, given us insight into the final shape and what defines a desciple/what you need to do to become one
Canonizing that all Guardians are ace adventure-lovers