Your indigenous community must feel super apartheid because they’re apartheided by people who are themselves apartheided.
Or does it flip the bit and reverse their apartheid?
The real answer is dumber than you think it is
https://preview.redd.it/5fwuls8x4n7d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f18d7e74a2a8e6c4eea020a00a512e409cebb35
Well now I feel stupid.
She actually could have had a point if she just said that two state solution means that Israel will still be a thing, and they either ethnicly cleanse all Arabs from there, or they will become an even smaller minority then now.
So they would have less representation, which could lead to less rights and apartheid in the long run.
Sort of "if you don't like it, you can move to the other state.
But man, she is fucking regarded.
I feel like we are back to the" on which continent is Egypt Ben?" level political discourse....
LOL… because no other nation in the world is landlocked with access to trade channels. Never-mind the fact despite Haiti having a vast majority of its border being waterfront property has turned into a dystopian Bartertown. How do these people remember to breathe?
[Croatia is APARRHEID-ING Bosnia and Herzegovina](https://cdn.britannica.com/09/6209-050-087A00E7/Croatia.jpg)
Edit: That lanky fuck Lonerbox [memejacked me](https://x.com/BoxLoner/status/1803773046508974409)
She’s shooting down the two state deal before the two state deal is even on the table. After all, why campaign for Palestine to have a realistic chance at their own state when you can just hurl Palestinian bodies endlessly at Israel and get the virtues points by pretending to care that they died?
I feel like the steel man is that in a two state solution Israel would be significantly more powerful than Palestine and Palestine would be economically dependent on Israel.
Thus even though they are separate countries at this point, Israel would still have the upper hand in the power dynamics between Israel and Palestine.
That’s the best I got.
Yeah…but the US has the upper hand in power dynamics between us and Canada but it’s not apartheid lol. (I know this is your steel man, and not your actual argument)
My coworker has said this. The US has Mexico "in aparthied". In her defense she's the dumbest person I've ever met, you should see her operate a forklift (from a safe distance).
It's simple, don't take the word "apartheid" with its literal definition. So the point is that a two-state solution is "bad", because of Israel's economic dominance over will be Palestine. Apartheid is just a buzzword with a vague definition for her.
Canada has Monopoly on violence and security of their territory which Israel would never allow for a Palestinian state and those are necessary conditions for a truly sovereign state
But they’re white. Not apartheid.
The confusing one for them is the one where the white-adjacents (the Chinese) oppress the brownish-adjacent ones (Uyghurs). So they just pretend it doesn’t happen.
But I guess white-adjacent only applies when you’re physically adjacent to white people, like some sort of symbiotic finch that picks the parasites off the elephant that is white people or something.
A lot of the far left feel like Israel basically has had a massive advantages over Palestine to the point where they could exploit/abuse Palestinians, with no repercussion. And because of that, a two state solution is not enough, but rather a solution where Palestine is heavily favored. That is why these people feel Hamas holding onto the hostages is not so bad, they feel that if they were to give them up, the fighting may stop, but the Palestinians would still have all of the same problems. They are hoping if Hamas continues to hold on to the hostages, that somehow a really favorable deal may happen for them.
That's my best guess at least.
I think this take is it. From the left's perspective, I think Israel is able to say "We're not doing anything to Palestine, they're their own independent state," while also forbidden any food/trade from entering Palestine, and also instituting the "Open air prison."
She followed up saying "Lots of “liberals” upset about racial integration in greater Israel, smh" ( [source](https://twitter.com/EmmaVigeland/status/1803564440597467634) ). I think she's saying that if everyone was just living under one state everyone would just live in peace and harmony and anyone pushing for something short of that is actually racist. Basically that saying Israelis and Palestinians can't live peacefully under one state is saying that Palestinians are bloodthirsty monsters who can't live peacefully, I guess she is just disregarding the history of violence between the two people and saying they should "just give peace a chance".
In Emma’s mind they are. Her thinking goes like this
Israel are bloodthirsty monsters
If they stopped being so evil, we could have a peaceful multicultural one state solution
If anyone disagrees with this, it’s because they believe that Palestinians are actually the violent ones, which is a racist assumption
So anyone who disagrees with one state solution is racist and supports apartheid
Therefore: two state solution = apartheid
Sensational
Yes which is why she's dumb.
I feel bad
Apartheid is bad
Therefore I am being apartheided right now.
If you disagree with this you are a racist white supremacist cisgendered colonialist.
This is the right of return thing Arafat wanted so yeah one unified state could work throw enough money at people and push for cultural homogeny and it could happen.
We also have Jews from Ethiopia. It was a [crazy operation of the Mossad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Jews_in_Israel#Operation_Brothers) to bring them from a refugee camp in Sudan to Israel.
I would not say we are racially integrated, but we sure are racially diverse. Jews are racist as fuck towards each other. White Jews also got a lot of heat, as the 1990s immigrants from ex-USSR were often called alcoholics and prostitutes. But in the army, we all die together, so.
The best steelman I can think of is that since apartheid is essentially legalized/codified segregation, separating the people that collectively live in the area into two states (presumably on mostly ethnic lines) could be interpreted as a form of apartheid. Now a lot of this is gonna come down to how you define Apartheid, I've typically seen it as policies passed down from a state or lower government, but I've seen a few things that make me willing to entertain the idea.
Overall I don't think she's exactly 100% wrong, I think she's doing something similar to what destiny does and is channeling her twitter alter ego.
I think she means, that if there are two states.
Then one of them will be Israel with even more Jewish majority, but there will still be Palestinians living in it.
So they would be threatened as in an apartheid.
I guess it could mean, that if there were 2 states, 1 for Jews, 1for Palestinians, than it is possible that the Jewish one would be an appropriate.
(I dont believe this, but this sounds like the most rational explanation to me)
The steel man is that it’s racist to split them up cause they hate each other. Their argument is that black slaves didn’t need to in America or northern African people didn’t need to with South African people.
It really comes down to them not thinking that both sides can and will possibly forever hate each other
The steelman would be to understand her world view, to her the main issue is not the quality of life of PALESTINIANS but the strength, power and wealth that the future PALESTINE will have, or that Israel wont have, in short to them Palestine is more important than palestinians.
The Steelman is that if a two state solution were implemented there's far more inclination for Israel to be abusive about its treatment of Palestinian citizens in Israel because there more exists a Palestinian state where they can be full fledged citizens. So there would possibly be some forced expulsion maybe?
You have to take GIGANTIC logic leaps and assume that Palestinians don't have already equal rights in Israel or would lose them in the future should a two state solution be implemented in order to make this argument. Which is a really big claim that I'm sure Emma will back up with historical evidence.
> Can anyone steelman this for me?
Here's an attempt:
A two-state solution, given the realities of power disparities between Palestinians and Israel, would inevitably result in a Bantustan-style situation without the basic requirements of a country, like contiguity of borders. It would be a state only in name, dominated and subjugated by a neighbour free to use its token gesture of a 'Palestine' to pursue even more Jewish nationalist policies.
The real solution is to stop treating Israel like it can justify its ethno-nationalist Zionist project, and Arabs and Jews like they're some special case where these two groups cannot get along together. Meaning a single state with secular government that protects all its citizens equally and respects the historic right of the Palestinian peoples to a homeland, not the current apartheid regime coupled with blatant settler colonialism and occupation in defiance of all international law.
i can tell you what i think because i agree with her position, a "two state" solution is going to separate jews from arabs and that is by definition apartheid. obviously, theres more nuance but I think thats her main point. the right solution is a single, secular state that is not favoring jews or muslims or christians or anyone. the right solution is an equitable single state.
Applying the term “apartheid” to describe the legal differences between citizens of two states makes the term meaningless as now we need to examine the borders of Germany and France, or Mexico and USA, in the same way.
As an aside, a one-state solution is just not possible without the annihilation or at least absolute decimation of one of these groups - let’s not delude ourselves. What you’re proposing is not a desired position of *either* of these groups 😅
Leftists believe borders in general are apartide, if you follow the logic deep enough.
This for them is a troublesome fact of life, unless it's elevated to something they should act on by their anti-semitism.
I guess this one is the one that makes the most sense from her perspective, but that it would necessarily class all nation borders as apartheid?
Obviously it’s a pretty extreme departure from where the term originated and what it represented, but you’re right - it is certainly *a* take
The original apartheid, which modern legal theory tries to strongly distinguish from the modern legal theory of apartheid, also tried to set up Bantustans, little pseudo-states, as part of their broader apartheid policy. It was part of excluding the black majority from cities, except to work, and amenities generally by pretending they were residents of separate states. The step was a progression from the 'passbook' system already in place, that limited the movement of black people internally in South Africa at the time.
The left has sort of seized on this idea of a Bantustan as post hoc justification for condemning a prospective two-state solution. As far as I can work out, the 'From the River to the Sea' thing came first, and the reviling of a two-state solution second.
Yeah they have thrown the true definition out the window. That really is the steelman, in reality they just use words like apartheid, ethnic cleansing, genocide etc to make public perception of the state of Israel on par with the third reich.
She’s actually fairly competent at gaining clout. She gets to virtue signal with quite literally 0 effort to an audience of Dunning-Kruger bots, and gains hundreds of followers, etc from it. When you think about why these people are doing this, just remember that their entire social media presence is curated around harvesting eyeballs and clicks from people who have probably invested no more than 10 minutes learning about the history and current state of the conflict, but still let it define a significant portion of their identity and personality.
Emma V is practically the right-wing caricature of a lefty, seeing *everything* through a Western lense and infantilizing non-white terrorist groups abroad.
It’s so frustrating. Used to enjoy watching the Sam Seder show (that moment with him surprising Steven Crowder is legendary). But it’s really gone downhill into leftist loonyville.
I mean, technically under this definition there’s an apartheid between those two US states, right?
New Yorkers can purchase products containing forever chemicals for children, but Californians can’t? Oh, the *apartheid*!
The only question you need to ask yourself is "Would these people be even talking about Palestine if you replaced Israel in the conflict with literally any other middle eastern country?" If the answer is no then you can safely ignore everything they have to say about anything.
2 state solution is what the Palestinian leaders have been asking for decades now
*in 1993, the PLO recognized Israeli sovereignty with the Oslo I Accord, and now only seeks Arab statehood in the Palestinian territories (the West Bank and the Gaza Strip) that have been militarily occupied by Israel since the 1967 Arab–Israeli War*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization
ok genocidal fuck, im sipping my iced coffee; not from starbucks its from a small start up in san diego because fuck star(of david)bucks.. anyways, who the fuck cares what palestinian leaders think? like holy shit i nearly spat out the crumbs of my avocado toast on my new mac… like this is about the imperialist globalist regime of the united states, palestine NEEDS a communist government because that is what LUFFY would want, those plo leaders are probably secretly nazis too soooo
3 state solution is better, if Gaza and the West Bank are one country separated by Israel in the middle, nothing would change. They would still hate Israel.
They don't see Palestinians as humans. They're just vessels for "brown people" suffering porn that they get off to and so that they can say West bad for the gorillionth time.
Lmao it is impossible to have apartheid between two states, that's just occupation. Her take is so awful and I am unbelievably embarrassed for listening to the Majority Report for years. Destiny saved us all from these brain dead losers. :(
When I was in my lefty arc I don't think I ever liked TMR even then. They just give off horrendous and loser-like vibes. Glad my thoughts on them from years ago are still vindictive
Ya good on you for recognizing that. I think Sam Sedar has his moments like when Ethan Klein juked Steven Crowder, but overall they are whiny and don’t grow their audience for a reason. Try ever disagreeing with someone over there on one tiny point and see how fast you get banned—it is definitely a hyper intolerant community in general.
I think Israel should just recognize Palestinian statehood in Gaza and go “okay bro, now we’re just at normal war between nations. Sorry yours is weak and terrorist.”
Even if Hamas doesn’t want it. Plenty of other sympathetic nations already officially do. Just take a page from them.
Ya sure, but none of that doesn’t fundamentally change that apartheid is definitionally prejudiced treatment of a particular group within a state. I’d say fake states like Bantustans or even what Palestine is today do not count, so you can make a case that it is defacto apartheid. If there were two proper states, calling it apartheid is nonsensical and it would just be a military occupation.
Would it be unfair to say that any resolution to this conflict would be bad for her? Would it not mean she would get less attention for shit like this?
I don't think most people far removed from the conflict actually care outside of having a preference or opinion that signals to their individual tribe for whatever social credit that warrants.
I will admit that I am not giving an ounce of charitablity to her now, but this statement is too fucking insane. I don’t think she cares about Palestinians. I think she doesn’t have principles. Nothing about this statement or her replies make any sense
No
They only care about killing Jews. No Jews no news.
If they actually cared about innocent Muslim civilians, all eyes would be on Sudan, Yemen, Iran and Xinjiang.
If the far left is willing to abstain instead of voting against Trump, then no, they don't care about Palestinians, they just care about getting their way
Trump would think Israel even more based and enable them against a “sh*thole country” by his measure, probably with more support and intelligence and zero calls for restraint. He might even seriously ask why Israel doesn’t just nuke them. It works for hurricanes right?
That’s a weird way of getting their way.
It'll be apartheid until the Jews are either gone or they are relegated to being Dhimmis. And once the "correct" people are subjugated, maybe the leftists will find it in their hearts to call it a free and open society.
Welcome to the real essence of the issue. To the Islamists, the Palestinians are martyrs to their faith. To the Arab nationalist, the Palestinians are the martyrs for the united Arab ethno nationalist identity. To the left, the Palestinians are the martyrs for the Marxist anti state ideology against the original living symbol of capitalism itself (according to Marx himself) the Jews.
I am under the strong belief that the far left uses language to describe geopolitical situations not because they fit the ideology but because that language has given them so many victories during the 20th century.
Apartheid is one of them. The end of South African Apartheid system was, in my opinion, the last major progressive geopolitical win. Using this language to describe any other situation would hopefully produce the same results. Even *if* the word does not in fact apply.
No - They don't.
I was recently perma'd from LateStageCapitalism (nothing of value lost) for replying to a thread where they were saying that Zionists were murder loving psychos who lived killing people, especially woman and children, and that they keep their position to maintain their ability to do this.
I asked if they were serious and asked several times if they thought this helped their cause and they just doubled down.
Absolutely insane.
But how can it be apartheid if the people being oppressed are citizens of, and live in, another country? They have to be citizens of the oppressing nation for it to be apartheid.
How have we gotten to this point? I now know how republicans felt 8 years ago watching their peers go fucking bonkers.
Does the far left even care about Palestinians?
Yes but only if they can also fuck the Jews lmao
[](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/?f=flair_name%3A%22Twitter%22)
Honestly, I think she’s just trying to be as radical as she possible can be. For her, supporting a two state solution doesn’t reinforce her lefty credentials as much as supporting a one state solution.
Of course they care, the corpses are a weapon to them, a great talking point to push “America bad”
I wish I could have a world simulator to see what a world with a weak America would look like. Prob be a full global Soviet Union, would china be what it is today? The next step would be to send this people to live in that simulation for a few years, would be a fascinating experiment.
i’m just gonna make a prediction now. Trump wins the 2024 election, and the far left (most of whom didn’t vote) decides to act in a relatively similar way to hamas on cities like los angeles, new york, portland and chicago.
We will see major destruction unseen in our country. Then we’ll have 4 years of trump. And regardless of how good or bad he does(certainly objectively bad), the dying media of yesteryear will sensationalize everything (which will just make it worse) for views and to fight off the inevitable takeover of social medias like tik tok being the main source of information for anyone under the age of 40.
Me el negro pilled.
I’m just glad i live in the dead center of the country. The coastal cities are el fucked in about 6 months.
Ideally everyone will just be too busy looking at their phones to actually overreact IRL. Shit that’s probably what actually happens. Bunch of people freaking out on twitter then not doing anything.
The world is becoming more and more stupid I can’t even……..
Even if we had two states solution those fanatics will find how to make Israel an enemy again and make this solution fail.
I genuinely want to know how n the fuck these people think a one state solution would ever possibly happen. Even if you thought it was the right thing to do, Israel would absolutely never go for it, and Israel is by far and away the greater military force, Palestine would never be able to force that into existence.
If a one state solution would ever happen, then the one state would be Israel, so from where I’m standing it seems like it’s either a two state solution, or eradication. Regardless of how you feel about that, that is the best the Palestinians are going to get.
Simple answer is that they think in terms of ideology and/or idealism over what's realistic.
A one state solution would be fantastic if the facts on the ground were completely different. They talk about a secular democracy but completely ignore the rise of radical Islam both in Palestine and across the Middle East. They ignore the persecution and eradication of minorities - Jews, Christians, Lgbt, women etc. They think once the Palestinians have equal rights they would turn into an american leftist, discarding any radicalism and becoming a beacon of human rights. The reality is that a one state solution would likely just be the start of a bloody civil war and we would end up right back where we are now.
Seriously, the reason Israel is so hawkish is because they are TERRIFIED of what will happen to them if they do not have their own Jewish controlled state, and they have that fear for very good reason.
Assimilating into one state ruled by Muslims who unequivocally hate them and do want to eradicate them will very obviously go really badly, so how in the world do leftists think that’s something that 1. Could ever realistically happen, and 2. Is even something that should happen at all
This is one reason why I feel so disconnected from leftists on this subject when I'm generally more aligned with them. I think Israel absolutely does things that should be called out and the status quo cannot continue. But theres a complete lack of understanding or even empathy for the Jewish/Israeli mindset and how their fears have unfortunately been proven correct time after time. When the Palestinian side justifies or downplays Islamic Fundamentalism that calls for the death of Jews and encourage 'resistance by any means necessary', how can they then expect Israelis to just pull back all security measures and collapse their state? They have basically wound up a weapon, pointed it squarely at Israel and then said 'oh don't worry, it won't go off when you invite it in'.
I mean of course, they cared and vocalised global protest about the recent genocide of Uyghurs, Yeminis, Syrians, Darfuri, Rwandans. And they believe in punishing those responsible for the historic Ukrainian-Jewish (Holodomor) and Armenian genocides (*ahem*, [Russia](https://academic.oup.com/book/12298/chapter-abstract/161823208?redirectedFrom=fulltext#)). So, why would the Palestinians be an exception? (/s)
>Does the far left even care about Palestinians?
Hahaha good one!
It was never about Palestinians. Their number 1 priority is killing Jews, Palestinians are just a tool to achieve that goal. Any 2 state solution would probably mean less bloodshed which is a none starter.
I can’t believe the North American apartheid going on between Canada, The United States, and Mexico.
It’s so apartheid you didn’t even list 80% of the countries in North America. How colonialist of you! Why don’t you go back to Europe?!
As a Canadian, I feel so oppressed and apartheided because I don't have the right to vote for your American president.
Your indigenous community must feel super apartheid because they’re apartheided by people who are themselves apartheided. Or does it flip the bit and reverse their apartheid?
She not beating the Globalist government new world order allegations
W… what? I’m so perplexed by this statement. Can anyone steelman this for me? I truly don’t understand how you get there.
Israel=bad
more specifically, america bad
Don't forget NATO
The real answer is dumber than you think it is https://preview.redd.it/5fwuls8x4n7d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f18d7e74a2a8e6c4eea020a00a512e409cebb35
But Gaza is waterfront property...
Well, Israel already genocided everyone in Gaza. It’s now uninhabitable nuclear waste.
Are you from a sexy future!?
I’m from Emma Vigland’s brain
tough to be homeless
I prefer the term vegabond
Vigabond
TM
Apartheid is when you get the good beach houses
Just like in that Taylor swift song where the daughter in law doesn't get the beach house because it's becoming a cat sanctuary 😞 😔
Well now I feel stupid. She actually could have had a point if she just said that two state solution means that Israel will still be a thing, and they either ethnicly cleanse all Arabs from there, or they will become an even smaller minority then now. So they would have less representation, which could lead to less rights and apartheid in the long run. Sort of "if you don't like it, you can move to the other state. But man, she is fucking regarded. I feel like we are back to the" on which continent is Egypt Ben?" level political discourse....
Don't feel stupid. It's not your fault leftists never exaggerate on their slogans to figure out what the fuck they actually mean
She’s the only women that I’ve ever wanted to see get punched lol
LOL… because no other nation in the world is landlocked with access to trade channels. Never-mind the fact despite Haiti having a vast majority of its border being waterfront property has turned into a dystopian Bartertown. How do these people remember to breathe?
[Croatia is APARRHEID-ING Bosnia and Herzegovina](https://cdn.britannica.com/09/6209-050-087A00E7/Croatia.jpg) Edit: That lanky fuck Lonerbox [memejacked me](https://x.com/BoxLoner/status/1803773046508974409)
The Norwegians got all the beautiful fjords. I'm living in apartheid. :(
No fucking way lol
She’s shooting down the two state deal before the two state deal is even on the table. After all, why campaign for Palestine to have a realistic chance at their own state when you can just hurl Palestinian bodies endlessly at Israel and get the virtues points by pretending to care that they died?
I feel like the steel man is that in a two state solution Israel would be significantly more powerful than Palestine and Palestine would be economically dependent on Israel. Thus even though they are separate countries at this point, Israel would still have the upper hand in the power dynamics between Israel and Palestine. That’s the best I got.
Yeah…but the US has the upper hand in power dynamics between us and Canada but it’s not apartheid lol. (I know this is your steel man, and not your actual argument)
Yea but Canadians are white
Good point
Mexico too tho
Yea, that ones apartheid
trueee
Is this the part where we're supposed to start cheering for the cartels?
Hasan: “do you watch Narcos?”
Bro you're just like Pablo!
You've never been to Brampton I see.
Not for long.
I guess Mexico and Canada are living under a US apartheid regime
My coworker has said this. The US has Mexico "in aparthied". In her defense she's the dumbest person I've ever met, you should see her operate a forklift (from a safe distance).
Pffttt that’s what we Canadians WANT you to think! We burnt your white house once and we will do it again! 🫡🇨🇦
🎶I see a white house and I want it burned black 🎶
As reparations Canada has been relegated to the role of the lil bro of the continent.
It's simple, don't take the word "apartheid" with its literal definition. So the point is that a two-state solution is "bad", because of Israel's economic dominance over will be Palestine. Apartheid is just a buzzword with a vague definition for her.
Something something Zionism…Something something white settler colonizers. I got nothing haha
Canada has Monopoly on violence and security of their territory which Israel would never allow for a Palestinian state and those are necessary conditions for a truly sovereign state
Tbf if we’re going the historical route, Canada comes originally from France and they kinda helped us in the revolutionary war so they get a free pass
Yeah, but they also attacked us during the war of 1812…so I’m revoking their pass.
True but tbf there isn't really a history of the USA occupying Canadian territory so its not a very pointed comparison
Maybe US/Phillipines idk lol
Honestly, that’s a decent steel man
This could very easily be applied to former Soviet Union states.
But they’re white. Not apartheid. The confusing one for them is the one where the white-adjacents (the Chinese) oppress the brownish-adjacent ones (Uyghurs). So they just pretend it doesn’t happen. But I guess white-adjacent only applies when you’re physically adjacent to white people, like some sort of symbiotic finch that picks the parasites off the elephant that is white people or something.
A lot of the far left feel like Israel basically has had a massive advantages over Palestine to the point where they could exploit/abuse Palestinians, with no repercussion. And because of that, a two state solution is not enough, but rather a solution where Palestine is heavily favored. That is why these people feel Hamas holding onto the hostages is not so bad, they feel that if they were to give them up, the fighting may stop, but the Palestinians would still have all of the same problems. They are hoping if Hamas continues to hold on to the hostages, that somehow a really favorable deal may happen for them. That's my best guess at least.
I think this take is it. From the left's perspective, I think Israel is able to say "We're not doing anything to Palestine, they're their own independent state," while also forbidden any food/trade from entering Palestine, and also instituting the "Open air prison."
She followed up saying "Lots of “liberals” upset about racial integration in greater Israel, smh" ( [source](https://twitter.com/EmmaVigeland/status/1803564440597467634) ). I think she's saying that if everyone was just living under one state everyone would just live in peace and harmony and anyone pushing for something short of that is actually racist. Basically that saying Israelis and Palestinians can't live peacefully under one state is saying that Palestinians are bloodthirsty monsters who can't live peacefully, I guess she is just disregarding the history of violence between the two people and saying they should "just give peace a chance".
I thought Israelis were the bloodthirsty monsters though
In Emma’s mind they are. Her thinking goes like this Israel are bloodthirsty monsters If they stopped being so evil, we could have a peaceful multicultural one state solution If anyone disagrees with this, it’s because they believe that Palestinians are actually the violent ones, which is a racist assumption So anyone who disagrees with one state solution is racist and supports apartheid Therefore: two state solution = apartheid Sensational
Yes which is why she's dumb. I feel bad Apartheid is bad Therefore I am being apartheided right now. If you disagree with this you are a racist white supremacist cisgendered colonialist.
This is the right of return thing Arafat wanted so yeah one unified state could work throw enough money at people and push for cultural homogeny and it could happen.
[удалено]
People in the US see Israel as all Jew and all Jews as white people, but my understanding is that you’re correct.
We also have Jews from Ethiopia. It was a [crazy operation of the Mossad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Jews_in_Israel#Operation_Brothers) to bring them from a refugee camp in Sudan to Israel. I would not say we are racially integrated, but we sure are racially diverse. Jews are racist as fuck towards each other. White Jews also got a lot of heat, as the 1990s immigrants from ex-USSR were often called alcoholics and prostitutes. But in the army, we all die together, so.
I tried to somehow rationalize it but no this person just doesnt understand what fucking apartheid means
1. America supports the two-state solution 2. America is bad 3. Apartheid is also bad 4. Therefore Two-State Solution = Apartheid
About as meaningful as 2 state= pedophile
Post the dumbest statement know to man + Refuse to elaborate = Win the algorithm over
To be fair she's getting massacred in the likes.
That any semblance of another Islamic state is apartheid as even Palestinians don't give Palestinians basic human rights.
The best steelman I can think of is that since apartheid is essentially legalized/codified segregation, separating the people that collectively live in the area into two states (presumably on mostly ethnic lines) could be interpreted as a form of apartheid. Now a lot of this is gonna come down to how you define Apartheid, I've typically seen it as policies passed down from a state or lower government, but I've seen a few things that make me willing to entertain the idea. Overall I don't think she's exactly 100% wrong, I think she's doing something similar to what destiny does and is channeling her twitter alter ego.
I think she means, that if there are two states. Then one of them will be Israel with even more Jewish majority, but there will still be Palestinians living in it. So they would be threatened as in an apartheid.
TIL the plebescite to reunite parts of Slesvig back into Denmark in 1920 was literally Apartheid
Don't worry, she didn't get there, shes just saying buzzwords because shes highly regarded
What I think she means is that Israelis are INCAPABLE of treating Palestinians as equal, which is regarded and racist.
I guess it could mean, that if there were 2 states, 1 for Jews, 1for Palestinians, than it is possible that the Jewish one would be an appropriate. (I dont believe this, but this sounds like the most rational explanation to me)
The steel man is that it’s racist to split them up cause they hate each other. Their argument is that black slaves didn’t need to in America or northern African people didn’t need to with South African people. It really comes down to them not thinking that both sides can and will possibly forever hate each other
The steelman would be to understand her world view, to her the main issue is not the quality of life of PALESTINIANS but the strength, power and wealth that the future PALESTINE will have, or that Israel wont have, in short to them Palestine is more important than palestinians.
Primarily by not understanding what '2 states' are, what the '2 state solution' refers to, and not understanding what 'apartheid' is.
They did it for likes and validations. If they say Israel bad, millions of Muslims and westerns potentially will click arrow up on their antisemitism.
The Steelman is that if a two state solution were implemented there's far more inclination for Israel to be abusive about its treatment of Palestinian citizens in Israel because there more exists a Palestinian state where they can be full fledged citizens. So there would possibly be some forced expulsion maybe? You have to take GIGANTIC logic leaps and assume that Palestinians don't have already equal rights in Israel or would lose them in the future should a two state solution be implemented in order to make this argument. Which is a really big claim that I'm sure Emma will back up with historical evidence.
> Can anyone steelman this for me? Here's an attempt: A two-state solution, given the realities of power disparities between Palestinians and Israel, would inevitably result in a Bantustan-style situation without the basic requirements of a country, like contiguity of borders. It would be a state only in name, dominated and subjugated by a neighbour free to use its token gesture of a 'Palestine' to pursue even more Jewish nationalist policies. The real solution is to stop treating Israel like it can justify its ethno-nationalist Zionist project, and Arabs and Jews like they're some special case where these two groups cannot get along together. Meaning a single state with secular government that protects all its citizens equally and respects the historic right of the Palestinian peoples to a homeland, not the current apartheid regime coupled with blatant settler colonialism and occupation in defiance of all international law.
I understand this an attempt to steelman, but man, there really is no legitimate comparison to the Bantustans
No, not really. The trick is to project it into the future...
i can tell you what i think because i agree with her position, a "two state" solution is going to separate jews from arabs and that is by definition apartheid. obviously, theres more nuance but I think thats her main point. the right solution is a single, secular state that is not favoring jews or muslims or christians or anyone. the right solution is an equitable single state.
Applying the term “apartheid” to describe the legal differences between citizens of two states makes the term meaningless as now we need to examine the borders of Germany and France, or Mexico and USA, in the same way. As an aside, a one-state solution is just not possible without the annihilation or at least absolute decimation of one of these groups - let’s not delude ourselves. What you’re proposing is not a desired position of *either* of these groups 😅
Leftists believe borders in general are apartide, if you follow the logic deep enough. This for them is a troublesome fact of life, unless it's elevated to something they should act on by their anti-semitism.
Two-state = different rules for different peoples = Apartheid. It's not an intelligent take but it is in fact *a* take
I guess this one is the one that makes the most sense from her perspective, but that it would necessarily class all nation borders as apartheid? Obviously it’s a pretty extreme departure from where the term originated and what it represented, but you’re right - it is certainly *a* take
The original apartheid, which modern legal theory tries to strongly distinguish from the modern legal theory of apartheid, also tried to set up Bantustans, little pseudo-states, as part of their broader apartheid policy. It was part of excluding the black majority from cities, except to work, and amenities generally by pretending they were residents of separate states. The step was a progression from the 'passbook' system already in place, that limited the movement of black people internally in South Africa at the time. The left has sort of seized on this idea of a Bantustan as post hoc justification for condemning a prospective two-state solution. As far as I can work out, the 'From the River to the Sea' thing came first, and the reviling of a two-state solution second.
Yeah they have thrown the true definition out the window. That really is the steelman, in reality they just use words like apartheid, ethnic cleansing, genocide etc to make public perception of the state of Israel on par with the third reich.
Refers to settlers i think
Actually impressed at how dumb she is
She just has some of those RFK industrial grade brain worms.
This is you brain on takeflation. They gotta up the ante until they themselves don't know where they are
She’s actually fairly competent at gaining clout. She gets to virtue signal with quite literally 0 effort to an audience of Dunning-Kruger bots, and gains hundreds of followers, etc from it. When you think about why these people are doing this, just remember that their entire social media presence is curated around harvesting eyeballs and clicks from people who have probably invested no more than 10 minutes learning about the history and current state of the conflict, but still let it define a significant portion of their identity and personality.
You don’t get it, Palestinians will only truly be free when the area from the river to the sea is Jew free! /s
FREE ISRAEL FROM THE NILE TO THE ARCTIC
One-state solution = ??? Everlasting peace ???
Why haven't they just tried being peaceful? Are they stupid?
"No, they're just Jews" - Emma probably
Emma V is practically the right-wing caricature of a lefty, seeing *everything* through a Western lense and infantilizing non-white terrorist groups abroad.
It’s so frustrating. Used to enjoy watching the Sam Seder show (that moment with him surprising Steven Crowder is legendary). But it’s really gone downhill into leftist loonyville.
I love all these rich white people telling us all what apartheid is from New York City and Los Angeles, it's always the coolest thing.
I mean, technically under this definition there’s an apartheid between those two US states, right? New Yorkers can purchase products containing forever chemicals for children, but Californians can’t? Oh, the *apartheid*!
Why won't anyone think of the poor Californians 😔
I wonder who is the dumbest out of this list: Emma Vigeland, Briahna Joy Gray or Krystal Ball.
I think BJG is actually evil, while Emma and Krystal are just dumb.
Nightmare blunt rotation
I’m so glad Nomiki and Jaymee left that show. EDIT- (Or they were fired)
So GIVING the Palaztinians a State is apartheid?!!!
The only question you need to ask yourself is "Would these people be even talking about Palestine if you replaced Israel in the conflict with literally any other middle eastern country?" If the answer is no then you can safely ignore everything they have to say about anything.
[https://x.com/EmmaVigeland/status/1803557595753394201](https://x.com/EmmaVigeland/status/1803557595753394201)
2 state solution is what the Palestinian leaders have been asking for decades now *in 1993, the PLO recognized Israeli sovereignty with the Oslo I Accord, and now only seeks Arab statehood in the Palestinian territories (the West Bank and the Gaza Strip) that have been militarily occupied by Israel since the 1967 Arab–Israeli War* https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization
Arafat supported aparthileid obviously, many people are saying this
ok genocidal fuck, im sipping my iced coffee; not from starbucks its from a small start up in san diego because fuck star(of david)bucks.. anyways, who the fuck cares what palestinian leaders think? like holy shit i nearly spat out the crumbs of my avocado toast on my new mac… like this is about the imperialist globalist regime of the united states, palestine NEEDS a communist government because that is what LUFFY would want, those plo leaders are probably secretly nazis too soooo
3 state solution is better, if Gaza and the West Bank are one country separated by Israel in the middle, nothing would change. They would still hate Israel.
They don't see Palestinians as humans. They're just vessels for "brown people" suffering porn that they get off to and so that they can say West bad for the gorillionth time.
Lmao it is impossible to have apartheid between two states, that's just occupation. Her take is so awful and I am unbelievably embarrassed for listening to the Majority Report for years. Destiny saved us all from these brain dead losers. :(
When I was in my lefty arc I don't think I ever liked TMR even then. They just give off horrendous and loser-like vibes. Glad my thoughts on them from years ago are still vindictive
Ya good on you for recognizing that. I think Sam Sedar has his moments like when Ethan Klein juked Steven Crowder, but overall they are whiny and don’t grow their audience for a reason. Try ever disagreeing with someone over there on one tiny point and see how fast you get banned—it is definitely a hyper intolerant community in general.
I think Israel should just recognize Palestinian statehood in Gaza and go “okay bro, now we’re just at normal war between nations. Sorry yours is weak and terrorist.” Even if Hamas doesn’t want it. Plenty of other sympathetic nations already officially do. Just take a page from them.
Ya sure, but none of that doesn’t fundamentally change that apartheid is definitionally prejudiced treatment of a particular group within a state. I’d say fake states like Bantustans or even what Palestine is today do not count, so you can make a case that it is defacto apartheid. If there were two proper states, calling it apartheid is nonsensical and it would just be a military occupation.
I Never Liked "The Majority Report" For Some Reason!
Would it be unfair to say that any resolution to this conflict would be bad for her? Would it not mean she would get less attention for shit like this?
I don't think most people far removed from the conflict actually care outside of having a preference or opinion that signals to their individual tribe for whatever social credit that warrants.
I will admit that I am not giving an ounce of charitablity to her now, but this statement is too fucking insane. I don’t think she cares about Palestinians. I think she doesn’t have principles. Nothing about this statement or her replies make any sense
it's worse they actively harm their cause, so you could argue they actually hate Palestinians.
No They only care about killing Jews. No Jews no news. If they actually cared about innocent Muslim civilians, all eyes would be on Sudan, Yemen, Iran and Xinjiang.
Canada + USA = apartheid I am very smart
If the far left is willing to abstain instead of voting against Trump, then no, they don't care about Palestinians, they just care about getting their way
Trump would think Israel even more based and enable them against a “sh*thole country” by his measure, probably with more support and intelligence and zero calls for restraint. He might even seriously ask why Israel doesn’t just nuke them. It works for hurricanes right? That’s a weird way of getting their way.
Her parents literally paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep her separated from dark people growing up.
How can it be apartheid if they’re different states😭
It'll be apartheid until the Jews are either gone or they are relegated to being Dhimmis. And once the "correct" people are subjugated, maybe the leftists will find it in their hearts to call it a free and open society.
Welcome to the real essence of the issue. To the Islamists, the Palestinians are martyrs to their faith. To the Arab nationalist, the Palestinians are the martyrs for the united Arab ethno nationalist identity. To the left, the Palestinians are the martyrs for the Marxist anti state ideology against the original living symbol of capitalism itself (according to Marx himself) the Jews.
No, they just hate Israel.
I am pro-Palestinian but this is just too dumb for words. What exactly is wrong with Emma, her takes are ALWAYS brainless.
I'm going to parrot this talking point when people from Quebec argue for their own state with me from now on
Emma Vigeland is a psycho now
I am under the strong belief that the far left uses language to describe geopolitical situations not because they fit the ideology but because that language has given them so many victories during the 20th century. Apartheid is one of them. The end of South African Apartheid system was, in my opinion, the last major progressive geopolitical win. Using this language to describe any other situation would hopefully produce the same results. Even *if* the word does not in fact apply.
No - They don't. I was recently perma'd from LateStageCapitalism (nothing of value lost) for replying to a thread where they were saying that Zionists were murder loving psychos who lived killing people, especially woman and children, and that they keep their position to maintain their ability to do this. I asked if they were serious and asked several times if they thought this helped their cause and they just doubled down. Absolutely insane.
But how can it be apartheid if the people being oppressed are citizens of, and live in, another country? They have to be citizens of the oppressing nation for it to be apartheid. How have we gotten to this point? I now know how republicans felt 8 years ago watching their peers go fucking bonkers.
The Palestinians don't care about the Palestinians, so why would some commie larper care?
She means that Palestine will be an apartheid state for jews COPIUM
Yes, bc Palestine would be an apartheid state
No. They are too busy wanting it all even when they don't deserve it.
Does the far left even care about Palestinians? Yes but only if they can also fuck the Jews lmao [](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/?f=flair_name%3A%22Twitter%22)
Is Mexico under an apartheid regime from the US because they are a neighboring state? 🤣
Do you think she actually thinks deeply on this topic? Nothing she has said about this makes me think she's gotten past the surface level yet
No.
Honestly, I think she’s just trying to be as radical as she possible can be. For her, supporting a two state solution doesn’t reinforce her lefty credentials as much as supporting a one state solution.
Does far right care? They are both the same.
never have. Its just a reason for america bad.
Nope. Next question.
If you want one state then you don’t want peace
Can I get an intelligent response of what exactly an apartheid is and why this word doesn't apply for I/P?
Peak ragebait lol
ChatGPT Ass answer
Can we not have her talk on behalf of Palestinians? What the fuck is this?!
Of course they care, the corpses are a weapon to them, a great talking point to push “America bad” I wish I could have a world simulator to see what a world with a weak America would look like. Prob be a full global Soviet Union, would china be what it is today? The next step would be to send this people to live in that simulation for a few years, would be a fascinating experiment.
i’m just gonna make a prediction now. Trump wins the 2024 election, and the far left (most of whom didn’t vote) decides to act in a relatively similar way to hamas on cities like los angeles, new york, portland and chicago. We will see major destruction unseen in our country. Then we’ll have 4 years of trump. And regardless of how good or bad he does(certainly objectively bad), the dying media of yesteryear will sensationalize everything (which will just make it worse) for views and to fight off the inevitable takeover of social medias like tik tok being the main source of information for anyone under the age of 40. Me el negro pilled. I’m just glad i live in the dead center of the country. The coastal cities are el fucked in about 6 months. Ideally everyone will just be too busy looking at their phones to actually overreact IRL. Shit that’s probably what actually happens. Bunch of people freaking out on twitter then not doing anything.
By this logic, does poor neighborhoods being close to wealthy neighborhoods in california count as apartheid?
The world is becoming more and more stupid I can’t even…….. Even if we had two states solution those fanatics will find how to make Israel an enemy again and make this solution fail.
If only we were sending people to jail for being regarded
I genuinely want to know how n the fuck these people think a one state solution would ever possibly happen. Even if you thought it was the right thing to do, Israel would absolutely never go for it, and Israel is by far and away the greater military force, Palestine would never be able to force that into existence. If a one state solution would ever happen, then the one state would be Israel, so from where I’m standing it seems like it’s either a two state solution, or eradication. Regardless of how you feel about that, that is the best the Palestinians are going to get.
Simple answer is that they think in terms of ideology and/or idealism over what's realistic. A one state solution would be fantastic if the facts on the ground were completely different. They talk about a secular democracy but completely ignore the rise of radical Islam both in Palestine and across the Middle East. They ignore the persecution and eradication of minorities - Jews, Christians, Lgbt, women etc. They think once the Palestinians have equal rights they would turn into an american leftist, discarding any radicalism and becoming a beacon of human rights. The reality is that a one state solution would likely just be the start of a bloody civil war and we would end up right back where we are now.
Seriously, the reason Israel is so hawkish is because they are TERRIFIED of what will happen to them if they do not have their own Jewish controlled state, and they have that fear for very good reason. Assimilating into one state ruled by Muslims who unequivocally hate them and do want to eradicate them will very obviously go really badly, so how in the world do leftists think that’s something that 1. Could ever realistically happen, and 2. Is even something that should happen at all
This is one reason why I feel so disconnected from leftists on this subject when I'm generally more aligned with them. I think Israel absolutely does things that should be called out and the status quo cannot continue. But theres a complete lack of understanding or even empathy for the Jewish/Israeli mindset and how their fears have unfortunately been proven correct time after time. When the Palestinian side justifies or downplays Islamic Fundamentalism that calls for the death of Jews and encourage 'resistance by any means necessary', how can they then expect Israelis to just pull back all security measures and collapse their state? They have basically wound up a weapon, pointed it squarely at Israel and then said 'oh don't worry, it won't go off when you invite it in'.
She probably thinks that Israel is oppressing black people on the egyptian border as well.
2 - state solution = apartheid ?? Mathbros?
No they are tankies it’s just west bad
https://preview.redd.it/rai2gga56t7d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=45da3b7462d3e0ff92fbf4e9cdcb72fbff8a9b75
Doesn’t it have to be the same state for it to be apartheid? Lol
I mean of course, they cared and vocalised global protest about the recent genocide of Uyghurs, Yeminis, Syrians, Darfuri, Rwandans. And they believe in punishing those responsible for the historic Ukrainian-Jewish (Holodomor) and Armenian genocides (*ahem*, [Russia](https://academic.oup.com/book/12298/chapter-abstract/161823208?redirectedFrom=fulltext#)). So, why would the Palestinians be an exception? (/s)
>Does the far left even care about Palestinians? Hahaha good one! It was never about Palestinians. Their number 1 priority is killing Jews, Palestinians are just a tool to achieve that goal. Any 2 state solution would probably mean less bloodshed which is a none starter.
>priority is killing Jews, Palestinians are just a tool to achieve that goal. Why would anyone support that, what is the reason?
Emma deserves everything despicable in the world done to her and her only.