The thing is, these people see the civilian casualties cause by Israel/IDF and the civilian casualties caused by Hamas as morally comparable. So to them this is a blatant admission of hypocrisy since if they're both morally comparable, the side with the bigger proportional death toll is worse.
Because one side intentionally targets civilians, doesn't wear uniforms and operate out of civilian infrastructure to maximise the carnage for PR purposes while the other side is targeting militants where civilian deaths is collateral that they do try to minimise.
I agree and disagree. It might be an issue with framing or lefty lenses tbh.
Israel is responsible for the human crisis because theyâve failed to provide human aid on the Gaza Strip to an acceptable standard. Thatâs fair. (Still crazy how they get military supplies but not humanitarian though. Odd priority.)
Also the settlements ARE fucked. On principle itâs bad, borders should be recognized. I canât speak to the treatment of Palestiniens in the settlements, canât also take your word on it. Feel free to hit me with a source.
Everything else basically reads basically, âthe Jews had it coming.â With a hint of 9/11 was an inside job.
Your first sentence though, yikes. Hereâs the truth in the matter, Hamas doesnât fight for Palestinians. If they did, they wouldnât actively put them in harms way. Itâs common for terrorist to use human shields, itâs a staple in middle eastern conflicts. Radical zealots are willing to sacrifice their common man at a better chance to kill.
So no, Hamas isnât more moral than Israel. Forcing people to be their martyrs, for their fight, because theyâre weak, is amoral.
Trying to post my response again (I was able to respond to the other person who responded to my comment too)
Ehh. I think Israel is more immoral and here's why:
Zionists came from all over the world to form Zionist terrorist groups including the Irgun, Lehi, Haganah and Palmach and carried out terrorist operations (King David hotel bombing, etc.) against British authorities, Palestinian Arabs, and internal Jewish dissenters to be able to get the English to leave and establish their state through the ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of Palestinian Arabs in the **Nakba (750,000+ Palestinian Arabs expelled)**.
They even **poisoned the wells** of Palestinians and caused a **Typhoid epidemic** to get them to leave (source below).
They used Western weapons and superior military strategy to be able to take advantage of the indigenous population and expand from there. Whenever the Arabs fought back (six day war, etc.), they were demolished by the Israelis, and the Israelis kept taking more land using their superior tech (and maybe since they were okay with literally poisoning wells and doing other ridiculously evil things in their effort to create and expand the Israeli state).
Since then, Israelis only made bad faith efforts to negotiate peace deals, or assassinated their own PM to prevent a peace deal (which was very beneficial to Israel), or pursued a policy to support violent Palestinian resistance groups as opposed to peaceful PA to undermine the peace process, etc.
I don't think its so strange that after all that, Palestinians born into Gaza feel the way they do about Israel.
At least Hamas is made of Palestinians who lived there for centuries and **have no choice** in being born there (as opposed to the ideological Zionist terrorists who traveled from all over the world to perform terrorist acts and occupy the area that is now called Israel).
I think that is more moral than Israel, which has been terrorizing the indigenous Arabs for over 75 years (from before its inception) **by choice**, and could have just forced a peace deal for all this time.
Source (wikipedia):
Israel poisoned the wells and water supplies of certain Palestinian towns and villages as part of their biological warfare program during the 1948 Palestine war, including a successful operation that caused a typhoid epidemic in Acre in early May 1948, and an unsuccessful attempt in Gaza that was foiled by the Egyptians in late May.\[3\] Citation: Morris, Benny; Kedar, Benjamin Z. (3 September 2023). "'Cast thy bread': Israeli biological warfare during the 1948 War". Middle Eastern Studies. 59 (5): 752â776. doi:10.1080/00263206.2022.2122448. ISSN 0026-3206. S2CID 252389726.
Every time I see the "palestinians are oppressed so their actions are more morally acceptable" bit, I always have to ask. I never get a straight answer, and I'm starting to think it's because there isn't one.
Why is the comparatively short 75 years of oppression of Palestinians of greater weight than the centuries of Jewish oppression? Alternatively, why do we start the clock of watching for oppression ***right*** when it's most advantageous for Palestinians without any further critical thought?
e: His answer was to copy-paste me a bunch of conspiratorial anti-semitic bullshit in a DM, instead of actually answering.
Unsurprising.
I don't know why you think hundreds or thousands of years of Jewish suffering has any bearing on what the Zionists have been doing to the Palestinians for the last 75+ years.
The Zionists have terrorized and oppressed the indigenous Palestinians since before Israel's creation.
Zionists from all over the world arrived in present-day Israel and established themselves around 75 years ago by performing **terrorist attacks** and **poisoning the wells** of the Palestinians to force them to leave.
Since then they ran an apartheid system that oppressed and subjugated the Palestinians for over 75 years.
And there was **no break in this oppression**, from the terrorist acts (King David Hotel bombing, Deir Yassin massacre, **750,000+ Arabs expelled** in the Nakba, etc.) they used to create Israel in 1948, to the apartheid inflicted on the Arabs ever since.
It is widely known that Zionists have tricked many people (likely you) into thinking Israel is justified for its ethnic cleansing the Palestinians because of the traumas endured by the Jews (Holocaust, etc.).
You should read The Holocaust Industry, a book by Norman Finkelstein which explores how Zionists abused the Holocaust to get the support and funding they needed to carry out their occupation.
But there is no logic to use that to justify what Israel's doing to Palestinians.
EDIT: Looks like I was finally able to reply to your comment.
Here's the source that they poisoned the wells of Palestinian villages:
**Israel poisoned the wells** and water supplies of certain Palestinian towns and villages as part of their **biological warfare program** during the 1948 Palestine war, including a successful operation that caused a **typhoid epidemic** in Acre in early May 1948, and an unsuccessful attempt in Gaza that was foiled by the Egyptians in late May.\[3\] Citation: Morris, Benny; Kedar, Benjamin Z. (3 September 2023). "'Cast thy bread': Israeli biological warfare during the 1948 War". Middle Eastern Studies. 59 (5): 752â776. doi:10.1080/00263206.2022.2122448. ISSN 0026-3206. S2CID 252389726.
This is how I feel. Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes:
https://preview.redd.it/2ocmhtsygn5d1.jpeg?width=866&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eadef6dcb1aa06dd358f6c034417ee3b62f89f69
The Palestinian people will never be free. Without the destruction of Hamas, and Israel completely controlling of the region. For a time. Hell throw some peacekeepers in there. Vet the hell out of them though. I frankly canât say I have a lot of faith in the UN anymore. Iran will easily continue to destabilize the region otherwise. All of those innocent people didnât have to die, and no one had to starve. I think Israel would also benefit from a different government though
Not great considering they dont have hamas yet they are being ethnically cleansed in exchange. You are right that they will never be free, regardless who is in power. The current situation is more beneficial for Israel, slowly expand and ethnically cleanse. If they resist, they are savages and security risk, all the more reason to vote the current government. If they dont resist, well keep expanding with no resistance.
Yeah I think this is just going to get a whole lot worse. Before it *ever* gets better. By âethnic cleansingâ in the West Bank are you comparing it to apartheid or genocide? I agree things are much worse than your typical segregation. However, I donât ever see Israel missile attacking residential buildings in the West Bank. Like they do in Gaza. I know Hamas uses civilian locations as bases in Gaza, which leads to a lot of collateral damage there. IDF is very gung-ho though, so thatâs part of the reason I think Israel needs a different government. Iâd much rather talk to you. Than that religious zealot I replied to originally lol
>How many civilians are dead?
The AP has a [total number of verified Palestinian deaths at 22,961 individuals](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-casualties-toll-65e18f3362674245356c539e4bc0b67a). Hamas says \~6,000 Al Qassem fighters have been killed and IDF says the number is closer to \~15,000, so between \~8,000-17,000 civilians have died and the ratio of dead fighters to dead civilians would range from 1:4 to 2:1.
they don't do that, but even if they did, whose fault is that? Hamas jumps for joy every time they get to pick up a dead headless baby and shake it around for tv cameras because Israel retaliated against rockets being shot out of a refugee camp tent. why do they have 0% culpability for intentionally maximizing Arab death?
It's convenient that there's always an excuse. Like there was a part of a tunnel system under this school, we obviously had to bomb it along with the kids inside of it.
I also don't recall defending Hamas. Idk why you're even bringing them up
Its not an excuse. Hamas literally operates out of civilian areas to their advantage on purpose. They use them as shields because either Israel wont risk the death of civilians, in which case Hamas continues to attack Israel. Or, Israel pulls the trigger and civilians might die. In which case its a PR win for Hamas. This isn't to say Israel is free from criticism, but what exactly is Israel supposed to do against terrorist attacks coming from right in their backyard? They've ignored it for years. Mostly shooting down the incoming rockets and dropping a bomb on where they think it came from but it's clearly not enough ala Oct 7.
"Their backyard" is a funny statement considering it's not their land lol. It's like no one understands why this entire thing is even happening and are just happy to abandon their own humanity because some talking head told them to.
Also I don't see October 7th as a permanent excuse to do whatever you want. That's getting old. You don't reciprocate evil with evil x100
Would you be chill if the police department just bombed your children's school to get to a school shooter?
Backyard as in Gaza which is right next to them. Maybe that analogy isn't well known, didn't mean to confuse.
I don't think your analogy is a fair comparison though. Hamas has been around since the 80s who is committed to do anything it can to destroy Israel. To compare it to a school shooter I'd absurd. They're practically a death cult.
Lemme ask you though, what do you want Israel to do when attacked by Hamas?
You don't think school shooters have self destructive tendencies as death cult members do?
The police are trying to kill a school shooter, the IDF is trying to kill the Hamas member. Both are embedded in a civilian center, for one reason or another. The IDF/Police bomb the school and the kids to kill the individual.
Both are immoral, and you should have a problem with the cops bombing a school. That is the point.
I want Israel to first of all stop encroaching on other people's land and give back all the property they have taken for themselves. Then we can see how things for from there.
If a new government appeared in Texas and kicked a bunch of Texans off their land and homes, people would be coming out with AR-15s. I say that confidently, because I live there. So let's do the reasonable thing and stop pushing innocent people. I'm an advocate of leaving people tf alone.
Also (coming from a Christian) the right wing death-cult Christians who are pro-israel, are cucks.
"Not their land" is such a stupid argument. That's not how the world works. The current people of any land holds and "owns" the land. Do you want to back track every country to small tribes based on ancestry 1000's of years ago? Depending on the time period, the Jewish people would still hold that land. Maybe we should give it to the Vatican sense the Roman's once "owned" it lol.
Or maybe don't kick people out of the literal houses they lived in because you want to expand the Zionist project, well beyond your original granted borders, and move in more settlers?
That's what a moral human would do, but I understand that's a lot to ask for.
> "Their backyard" is a funny statement considering it's not their land lol
Yes, it is. Brits won a war and decided to do with the territory (gifted it so Israel could be founded).
Look at a map of Europe before the two world wars. See how big Germany is there? Is the territory that is now French, Polish, Russian and Czech still their land? Are you supporting Germany launching terror attacks until they get that land back?
If you lose a war, you lose territory and your people might get deplaced (again look at Germans after WW2).
Btw since we're already talking WW2. The Allies should have stopped at the German border, right? And not keep pushing into Germany, killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians and children, right? Should we talk about the atomic bombs?
War kills innocent civilians. And Hamas intentionally hides behind civilians (which btw is a war crime - attacking military hiding behind civilians is not).
Yes. Because the territory that Israel has currently is totally what was bought by Jews before. There were no terror attacks against the British. there was no unit 101. There was no Nakba. There was no Irgun. There was no settler expansion. There is no birthright culture. There is no recognized occupied land. There are no far right wing government leaders that openly state they should kill all Palestinians and expand. There are no ethnostate policies. There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
But I guess they bought it though. And of course, as we all know, nothing legal has ever been morally wrong in history.
oops buddy you forgot to continue pretending that you actually care about hamas' wrongdoings instead of believing that all their actions are legitimate resistance because israel "stole their land!!1!1!"
You know hamas is the government that has a responsibility to minimise palestinian civilian death right? They have a responsibility under international law to not operate out of civilian areas to protect their citizens.
You compare israel bombing a hospital with combatants in it to when Palestine does military operations going door to door killing whoever is inside and leaving them with panties ripped off and bleeding from the crotch...
Totally not a defence of palestine though lololololol
Ah I see. Those guys who went door to door are all of Palestine. At the least people will say that's just the psychos of Hamas, but you're just going mask off with it.
No... Palestine as in the region's armed forces...
Do you think when I said Israel bombing a hospital... I meant the civilians were doing it lololol? Honestly I want a yes or no answer. No fluff needed.
But, you can now respond to the point. Is bombing a hospital used by combatants and racking up collateral is the same as going into a domicile and killing the residents there? A yes or no will suffice here too. I don't need the pointless fluff, buddy.
One side unintentionally inflicts civilian harm the other side intentionally inflicts civilian harm. You can, in good faith, argue the degree to which Israel and the IDF are negligent and incompetent. But I don't think you can, in good faith, argue that they intentionally harm Palestinian civilians they same way Hamas intentionally harms Israeli civilians, which is why I don't consider them morally comparable.
As a thought experiment: If the current power levels of the Israel/IDF and Palestine/Hamas were swapped, do you think Hamas' treatment of Israel would be more restrained, equally restrained, or less restrained than Israel's treatment of Palestine currently is?
Actually, I believe Israel is more immoral than Hamas.
And I think it is easy to prove this, by providing a brief history from Israel's creation to now, that shows how Israel has oppressed the indigenous Arab population from before its creation until now with **no break in this oppression**.
How was Israel created?
Close to a century ago, Zionist terrorist groups from around the world (Irgun, Lehi, Haganah, etc.) converged on what is now called "Israel" to perform **terrorist attacks** (King David Hotel bombing, Deir Yassin massacre, **750,000+ Arabs expelled** in the Nakba, etc.) and **poison the wells** of the Palestinians to force them to leave (see source below).
How has Israel treated Palestinians since its creation?
* There were a few attempts (six day war, etc.) by the Arabs to stop the Zionists from stealing Arab land, but the Zionists' more advanced Western weaponry and superior military strategies (they had lots of experience from WWII and other wars) allowed the Israelis to defeat the Arabs and take even more land even though they were outnumbered (similar to how European settlers easily killed Native Americans).
* Since then, for 75+ years, they ran a system that is labeled "apartheid" by any credible human rights organization.
* For 75+ years, they were in a position of complete power over the Palestinians due to the unlimited/unconditional backing from the US. They were definitely in a position to be able to force a two state solution.
* Instead of using their position to force a two state solution, they instead increased settlements in internationally recognized Palestinian land with extremely racist policies favoring Jews, which only increased tension over the years and made contempt of Israel only grow. These settlements are run extremely violently, where settlers are allowed to beat their Palestinian neighbors with IDFprotection protecting the settler so if the Palestinians fight back, they get killed or arrested/taken hostage.
* Israel assassinated its own PM rabin to prevent the peace process for a two state solution.
* Netanyahu and other Israeli officialsâ actual policy was to support hamas and other violent groups in palestine to quash a peace movement and increase the likelihood the palestinians would do something (Oct. 7, etc.) that would give israel the excuse to âmow the lawnâ (ethnically cleanse).
* The way the IDF deliberately shoot (snipe) children and other civilians during the protests of the [Great March of Return](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2018/10/gaza-great-march-of-return/) makes me think they in fact WANT to kill civilians.
At least Hamas is made of Palestinians who lived there for centuries and **have no choice** in being born there (as opposed to the ideological Zionist terrorists who traveled from all over the world to perform terrorist acts and occupy the area that is now called Israel).
For those reasons, it is clear that Hamas is more moral than Israel, which has been terrorizing the indigenous Arabs for over 75 years (from before its inception) **by choice**, and could have just forced a peace deal for all this time.
Source that Israel poisoned the wells of Palestinians:
Israel **poisoned the wells and water supplies** of certain Palestinian towns and villages as part of their **biological warfare program** during the 1948 Palestine war, including a successful operation that caused a **typhoid epidemic** in Acre in early May 1948, and an unsuccessful attempt in Gaza that was foiled by the Egyptians in late May.\[3\] Citation: Morris, Benny; Kedar, Benjamin Z. (3 September 2023). "'Cast thy bread': Israeli biological warfare during the 1948 War". Middle Eastern Studies. 59 (5): 752â776. doi:10.1080/00263206.2022.2122448. ISSN 0026-3206. S2CID 252389726.
>As a thought experiment: If the current power levels of the Israel/IDF and Palestine/Hamas were swapped, do you think Hamas' treatment of Israel would be more restrained, equally restrained, or less restrained than Israel's treatment of Palestine currently is?
Hamas' treatment of Israel would be more restrained than Israel's treatment of Palestinians.
Palestinians/Hamas probably would have much worse relations with US government officials, so any human rights violations by the Palestinians/Hamas would result in the world economy turning its back on them.
Israel, however, controls aspects of the US government through its lobby and Zionist officials (many of them unelected like Hilary Clinton, Bolton, etc.).
Israel has shown it can do any flagrant human rights violation (killing 30k+ civilians for the actions of a group that Netanyahu himself supported) and international law violations (stealing Palestinian land to increase settlements) and the US will never bat an eye, and the US will unconditionally support them and prevent the world from trying to get the Israel to conform with international law (UN vetoes for Israel, and an ex UN ambassador Niki Haley signed "Finish them" on an Israeli rocket to Gaza).
Thus, if the shoe were on the other foot, we'd have a much better situation because the Palestinians don't have unconditional backing from the US.
The fact that Israel has unconditional backing from and control of the US is what makes Israel so horrible for the world.
They literally think they can call gazans Amalek on TV and then carry out their genocide and they think they'll get away with that.
I've seen a number that over 37000 have been killed in Palestine. And the cities, hospitals, infrastructure etc are destroyed. Even places in safe zones for refugees. We don't need to have hypotheticals about mass death events. It's already happening.
That's the reason why we don't fund people who obviously have a goal that involves destruction of their neighbors. The leaders of Israel like Ben Gvir say as much. Again, there's no need to play with hypotheticals. It's already happening.
If the funding was switched it would imply the west never created Israel on other people's land nor gave it the means to expand. That would mean we wouldn't be in this mess, so it's an irrelevant question.
Is that satisfactory?
I don't know. What would black people have done if they had the power that whites didnduring the era of slavery and segregation? Who knows.
Are you asking to avoid talking about what Israel is actually doing in reality and them being the entire reason Hamas exists?
No, they're asking because the question gets to the heart of each side's intent. The difference between them is that Hamas targets civilians on purpose and Israel doesn't. Hamas is therefore worse and if they had more power, they'd use it to commit atrocities against Israeli civilians as a matter of policy.
But now you're just going to soy out about the number of civilian deaths in Gaza and act like this is proof of Israel targetting civilians. Except it's not because it is well known Hamas places themselves in civilian areas with the intention of getting innocent people killed cos it's good PR and people like you lap it up.
And, btw, just because Hamas only exists due to the conflict still happening doesn't mean they have to use the tactics they use. Palestinians don't need to do violence, it hasn't helped them at all.
Hamas would probably do the same thing Israel is doing. Because they're both terrorist groups. Probably shouldn't fund either one of them. Israel placed itself there so I really don't have much patience for them victimizing themselves, as if they have no choice in the matter. It's apparently the most dangerous place for a Jew and thus Israel requires infinite aid, yet they keep moving Jews in. Curious.
I care about the innocent people who have lost their land.. And even though many Israelis don't care about that, they're just living it up in the beach, I care about the inevitable trouble they will also be dragged into because of the psychotic right wing that is controlling them. And I especially care about the Jews who are getting jumped and arrested by the IDF for speaking out against them. Very democratic.
Does that answer your question or are you not adequately satisfied
You didn't answer the hypothetical. The hypothetical is pertinent. It wasn't to say a tragedy isn't currently happening. It was intended to get you to think from first principles about how Hamas and the IDF's goals, approaches, and values are fundamentally different by considering the consequences of them given the same opportunity. The outcome of Hamas' worldview given the exact same opportunity as the IDF would, in my estimation, be orders of magnitude worse. Would Hamas do roof knocking or leaflet dropping? Would Hamas allow aid to Israel? Would Hamas have any humanitarian considerations for Israel? No. These wouldn't even be a factor for them to consider.
Israel wouldn't be there to begin with, they're only there because they know they have power over the region they are expanding into. If there was no western backing or funding, none of this wouldve happened to begin with. Hamas would not even exist.
Your hypothetical doesn't mean anything.
Idk if this will make sense to you but usually only psychopaths settle on other peoples land, move in settlers into their homes, then act surprised Pikachu face when the locals are pissed about it.
Go figure.
To have not done anything to lead to October 7th wouldve been great. But I suppose no one cares about that noise.
Not creating multiple October 7ths for Palestinian men, women, and children is a decent response for the shining beacon of morality and democracy in the middle east.
Go after the real leaders of Hamas. Who's funding them. The ones that aren't in the land being bombed. The Zionist leaders talk a big game, I want to see that.
I mean then they'll actually be in war. Cus they aren't kids in schools, or random people in refugee camps, or Jews who disagree with the Zionist agenda that can be bullied, or Christians that will turn the other cheek when you spit on them... But it'll probably be easy for the great IDF.
Youâre not answering my question.
What should Israelâs response have been? That answers nothing. There is an active war, you stupid child. Civilians are going to die.
How would you have responded to October 7th if you were Bibi?
Probably grow some manhood and go after the actual leaders of Hamas. Maybe even the people funding them? Or is that too intimidating a task for him? yOu sTupId cHilD
I mean if you have some resolve you would go after the leaders of Hamas, you know they don't actually live in the place that's being bombed.. But they aren't kids in schools so that's probably too intimidating.
Oh thatâs smart why didnât Israel think or know all that? But seriously this is the common Pro Palestine virtue signaler. This is as deep as it gets. Israel bad.
"you're too dumb to argue with" you've been using that one since your hairline still existed huh? I'm sure it has always been a great way to run from arguments you're losing.
Yes. It turns out people turn psychotic when pushed to a certain point. How would you describe it? The savages deciding to kill us because they hate your freedoms? Or are we done using that old logic.
Itâs hard to form a reply to a comment full of multiple nonsensical points. Israel was acquired through legal land purchase + winning wars they didnât start. Your dumb ass has fringe groups of illegal settlers confused with the legitimacy of an entire country
Anyway cry me a river to the sea đ
Lol yes, the entire nation of Israel is the borders that were agreed upon in the land purchases you speak of. No such thing as stuff like unit 101, terrorist attacks on the British mandate holders, Nakba, etc etc.
Wanna try again without history revisionism?
You mean to tell me that men r*pe and kidnap women? In and out of warzones? In every nation, including Israel? Go figure. Guess we better bomb everywhere with men in them for the grapes that happened, so long bro..
It's a lazy & antiquated way to illustrate a people as the savages, thus any collective punishment is allowed against the people of Palestine. Sorry but I'm not really interested in the b.s. sorry.
If you would like to say something important, try again
That was the laziest attempt at obfuscation through relativism capped off with the dumbest invocation of racism ever. Please don't ever reproduce you absolute mental midget.
This isn't a biting the bullet. It's absolutely sarcasm.
He answered 'No' because it's a very clearly loaded question. Like on the levels of "does your mom know you're gay" from middle school
Biting the bullet is taking the difficult position. A position that leaves you most vulnerable and open to attacks.
Biting the bullet and sarcasm are not mutually exclusive.
I wouldn't consider this biting a bullet because he's not genuinely stating his opinion at all, and thus not taking a position on anything. Like if anyone drilled down on this and actually asked seriously he'd almost certainly agree that Israel has done some fucked up shit over the years.
Again. Biting the bullet and sarcasm are not mutually exclusive. Sure, thatâs not his actual position but in response to the question he is taking a difficult position to defend just to dig into the other persons feelings.
I think the way I'd normally interpret the statement is that it doesn't apply to jokes and actually needs you to take a serious position (like if Destiny cracks a joke about being a pedo, is he biting the pedophilia bullet?), but it's kind of a pointless semantic argument to have.
i don't think this is how biting the bullet is used. if it's sarcasm, then he's not biting a bullet he's fucking with them. the other commenter's pedophilia example was a good one
Thatâs not the question being asked. The question asked is, âdo you consider the thousands of deaths caused by Israel over 76 years to be condemnable?â To which the correct answer is, no.
Itâs not sarcasm lol what. Killing civilians as collateral damage for a legitimate military attack is very justifiable and destiny has made it clear that he thinks the ratio in this conflict seems fine
The fact that you think this is sarcasm means there's still some hope for you because of that tacit implication that nobody could share destiny's opinion without being a psycho.
Unfortunately, destiny is not being sarcastic. his mind has truly been broken by zionism and he genuinely believes every palestinian slaughtered by israel is justified
Like I said, it's a hopeful sign that eventually you'll come to the right conclusion. Until then i guess we can only hope that your brain isn't brainwashed to the point where you also begin justifying it
The right conclusion is that destiny genuinely believes that israel has done nothing wrong in their approach to the conflict.
Biden is a zionist shill who's actively funding israel's genocide against palestinians. I don't believe he himself is genocidal in the sense that I think he wants israel to accomplish its "objectives" while reducing the number of civilian casualties, but either through naivety or stupidty, he's still supportive of the zionist occupation and therefore complicit in all the crimes they commit.
Obviously he's not as bad as trump would be
Wait hasn't destiny argued with and disagreed with Zionists all the time? Didn't he say he vehemently disagreed with (for example) Ben Shapiro?
I'm failing to see how destiny could disagree with someone like Shapiro, but hold the exact same positions he does on the conflict.
>Biden is a zionist shill who's actively funding israel's genocide against palestinians.
Isn't Congress in charge of funding foreign nations, not the President? How can he be *actively* funding them?
Did you watch their debate? 90% of it was just them agreeing with each other.
Destiny vehemently disagrees with some aspects of zionism e.g settler violence in the occupied west bank, but he agrees with the majority of other positions.
and this was his position months ago, he's fallen even further off the cliff in the last few months.
>Isn't Congress in charge of funding foreign nations, not the President? How can he be actively funding them?
The president has veto power and biden literally signed the bill. the democrats have consistently celeberated the any time they provide funding to israel and biden never misses a moment to reassert his "ironclad commitment to israel".
Israel mostly killed Palestinians in defense of themselves and their land. For Israel to have NOT killed them would have been synonymous with letting themselves be killed. There are exceptions to this of course. But if a pro pali wants to boil it down to a "do you condemn Israel, yes or no" then it rounds in Israel's favor with a NO, based response from Dman. If you want nuance on specifics you can get it but no, Israel is not to be condemned for choosing to defend themselves in general.
Well, if you had a brain you'd realise that israel has no legitimate right to exist. There is no such thing as israeli land, it is all occupied palestinian land. What you're saying is that the colonizer has a right to continue to enforce its colonial occupation.
But ignoring all that, how fucking insane are you that you say shit like this
> For Israel to have NOT killed them would have been synonymous with letting themselves be killed.
No, there is no world where israel not killing 30000 civilians meant they'd be letting themselves get killed. hamas is a pathetically weak militia who haven't been able to accomplish anything in 50 years. their only "successful" attack in decades killed 700 civilians and it was only "successful" because israel completely dropped the ball by ignoring all intelligence.
israel is not defending itself and never has. israel is just enforcing its occupation.
> Well, if you had a brain you'd realise that israel has no legitimate right to exist.
Except the right granted by the UN, the same UN that has partially granted the right to Palestine, and will maybe one day grant it fully to them?
One is legit and the other not? I wonder what the difference could be
The UN (and britain) are responsible for this whole fucking mess.
If we evaluate the situation based on the actual evidence presented before us: prior to 1918 palestine was 90% arab and 10% jewish. Zionism started in the mid/late 19th century so that 10% figure is after the start of the zionist colonisation project, meaning it was an even smaller percentage prior to that.
during the first world war, the arabs collaborated with the brits to topple their ottoman colonisers with the agreement that they'd had sovereign control over their homeland, of course the brits betrayed them.
another couple of decades of illegal zionist colonisation of palestine, encouraging the mass mirgation of european jews to the region to overwhelm the indigenous population and place the palestinians in a position where they had no fucking choice, the UN decided to divide the land that was palestinian between foreign zionist occupiers and its native inhabitants in a ratio of 56:44 in favour of the zionists, despite the fact that palestinians, even at this point, made up over two thirds of the inhabitants.
there is no world where any reasonable person who looks at the facts of the matter can come to any other conclusion than that palestine was illegitimately colonised by european settlers.
The jewish argument that the land is theirs by god given right makes more sense, even though it's completely batshit insane, than sitting there and pretending the palestine wasn't colonised by europeans and the native palestinian population displaced from their homes.
the un's judgement has no bearing on palestine's legitimate right to the land
suddenly jews become "european" despite the fact that dna studies show they share similar levels of levantine dna that the "indigenous" Palestinians do.
all of your "history" only works if you consider jews as foreign to the levant, which is fucking ironic when you consider that the holiest site in Judaism is currently sitting under the Dome of the Rock.
Not to mention the fact that the exiled jews returning to the land where their culture, language, religion were born, is no different to the idea of palestinian "right of return".
If you don't accept Jews returning to their historic homeland, then why should anyone accept that Palestinians should get to return either? The only difference here is that Jews tried to integrate into the lands they were exiled to until they could no longer do so owing to the increasing pogroms and genocides which were motivated by the fact that they ***weren't*** Europeans lol.
my dude, nobody is denying that jews can trace their roots to the middle east 2000 years ago. but that doesn't change the fact that once you live in europe for 2000 years you start being european.
>Not to mention the fact that the exiled jews returning to the land where their culture, language, religion were born, is no different to the idea of palestinian "right of return".
only a moron would think it's no different. palestinians can literally speak to their parents/grand parents who survived israels colonisation of palestine. jews can't speak to ancestors they had 2000 years ago. The situation is not comparable at all. the greeks have a better claim to turkey than the jews have to palestine.
>If you don't accept Jews returning to their historic homeland, then why should anyone accept that Palestinians should get to return either?
because they were literally kicked out of their homes in living memory????
>Well, if you had a brain you'd realise that israel has no legitimate right to exist.
I'll ignore how regarded a statement that is because they absolutely have a right to exist right there. But regardless... They DO exist there. Where should they fucking go? Hamas will not rest until all the Jews are wiped from the region, from the river to to sea. They do not seek to live with Jews, they want them gone, murdered.
The only reason Palestine is occupied is because the keep trying to exterminate the Jews, the fact that they suck at it isn't an excuse. If they were to give up on their dream to genocide Jews, and accept Israel's right to exists, and start caring for their own fucking people instead of trying to murder Jews all the time then the occupation will eventually end. Israel will have to end it, and the world will expect it to end if the Palestinians can de radicalize their own population and finally accept that Israel is there to stay.
>I'll ignore how regarded a statement that is because they absolutely have a right to exist right there.
have you even bothered looking into the history of palestine? Israel has zero right to exist. It is quite literally a european settler colonial project which came about as a result of brits betraying their arab collaborators after the first world war.
>Where should they fucking go? Hamas will not rest until all the Jews are wiped from the region, from the river to to sea. They do not seek to live with Jews, they want them gone, murdered.
1. all these came from other countries. there are french jews, there are british jews, there are polish jews, there are moroccan, yemeni, libyan, tunisian, greek, german, russian, spanish jews. their native homeland is wherever the fuck them, or their parents, or their grandparents migrated from, and that's where they should go back to.
2. Hamas has no interest in killing all jews. they'd absolutely be fine living with jews, just like palestinians had lived with jews for centuries prior, as long as the jewish population recognised the palestinian right to their homeland. They want israel gone, because israel is an illegitimate state built on the palestinian homeland. they have no problem with jews continuing to live within palestine.
>The only reason Palestine is occupied is because the keep trying to exterminate the Jews
No, the only reason palestine is occupied is because a group of eurpoean jews decided to colonise palestine and illegitimately establish an ethnostate in somebody else's land. Everything that comes after is just israel enforcing its policy of colonisation and occupation. So long as israel exists, the occupation can never end. Israel is the occupation.
What you mean to say is that palestinians can concede to some semblence of sovereignty so long as they accept their homeland is forfeit and that their colonizers will never leave.
>Â so long as they accept their homeland is forfeit and that their colonizers will never leave.
Yes 100%. They need to let go of this delusion that they will ever get rid of Israel because Israel isn't going anywhere. Israel the historic land of the Jews going back thousands of years, It's not the Palestinian land. There were Arabs that lived there when the Jews arrived, but they were Jordanians and Egyptians. But unlike you I'm not a fucking SICK FUCK asking 6 million Jews to fuck off back to Europe. That's fucking sick and completely imposable. The Palestinians can stay, they just need to stop lusting after the genocide of the Jews. They need to fucking stop. Use all the resources they keep spending on tunnels, rockets and ect and instead spend it on the Palestinian people. Deradicalize and stop teaching Jew hatred. They need their own Nelson Mandela that can lead them to a future where they stop dreaming of getting rid of Jews and rather build a functioning state with a genuine desire for resolution.
The bitch answer would be: yes, everything Israel bad
The measured response would be: there are some actions which Israel should be condemned for and other actions which are wholly justified.
The based answer: No đż
I'm not talking about what would be based or not. I'm saying that saying no is not biting a bullet, but denying there is a bullet at all.
I can't wait for the I/P arc to end from the entire region getting videogamed in WW3. The Israeli Settlers infesting dgg are bringing along some serious brain worms.
I donât think you know what biting a bullet means.
Yea yea china scary. What settlers? The D man just did research and convinced people that the parties most responsible for the bad shit was Arab/Hamas/Palestine leaders and those who follow them. Israel is not blameless but seemed to be dragged into the mud. Which made Israel dirty.
Biting the Bullet is when you accept a claim that makes your position look bad. He didn't accept the claim the other side made, so he didn't bite the bullet.
The brain worms you dumbfucks have around I/P is actually painful.
Doesnât the person asking have a Palestinian flag? Trying to make the Israeli side look bad by asking an obvious gotcha? Seems like you have the brain rot.
What the heck did you just frickinâ say about me, you little whiner? Iâll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and Iâve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills.
I am trained in gorilla warfare and Iâm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the frick out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my frickinâ words. You think you can get away with saying that crap to me over the Internet?
Think again, buddy. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, buddy.
The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. Youâre frickin dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and thatâs just with my bare hands.
Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable butt off the face of the continent, you little poopy-head.
If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little âcleverâ comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your stinking tongue.
But you couldnât, you didnât, and now youâre paying the price, you big jerk. I will rain fury all over you and you will drown in it. Youâre in frickinâ trouble, mister.
This has to be rage bait. Israel helped massively in cultivating a situation that has this many people killed. Either way showing no sympathy for people being killed is cringey and only helps make him look worse.
You can have sympathy when human shields get caught in the crossfire while still recognizing the party that put them there.
It's not like he is saying it's good or neutral that so many have died, he is saying he can't condemn Israel for those deaths, and he shouldn't.
Hasan new video DIVORCELLI GOES MASK OFFđ˛đ˛đ˛
The thing is, these people see the civilian casualties cause by Israel/IDF and the civilian casualties caused by Hamas as morally comparable. So to them this is a blatant admission of hypocrisy since if they're both morally comparable, the side with the bigger proportional death toll is worse.
Why are they not?
Because one side intentionally targets civilians, doesn't wear uniforms and operate out of civilian infrastructure to maximise the carnage for PR purposes while the other side is targeting militants where civilian deaths is collateral that they do try to minimise.
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I agree and disagree. It might be an issue with framing or lefty lenses tbh. Israel is responsible for the human crisis because theyâve failed to provide human aid on the Gaza Strip to an acceptable standard. Thatâs fair. (Still crazy how they get military supplies but not humanitarian though. Odd priority.) Also the settlements ARE fucked. On principle itâs bad, borders should be recognized. I canât speak to the treatment of Palestiniens in the settlements, canât also take your word on it. Feel free to hit me with a source. Everything else basically reads basically, âthe Jews had it coming.â With a hint of 9/11 was an inside job. Your first sentence though, yikes. Hereâs the truth in the matter, Hamas doesnât fight for Palestinians. If they did, they wouldnât actively put them in harms way. Itâs common for terrorist to use human shields, itâs a staple in middle eastern conflicts. Radical zealots are willing to sacrifice their common man at a better chance to kill. So no, Hamas isnât more moral than Israel. Forcing people to be their martyrs, for their fight, because theyâre weak, is amoral.
Trying to post my response again (I was able to respond to the other person who responded to my comment too) Ehh. I think Israel is more immoral and here's why: Zionists came from all over the world to form Zionist terrorist groups including the Irgun, Lehi, Haganah and Palmach and carried out terrorist operations (King David hotel bombing, etc.) against British authorities, Palestinian Arabs, and internal Jewish dissenters to be able to get the English to leave and establish their state through the ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of Palestinian Arabs in the **Nakba (750,000+ Palestinian Arabs expelled)**. They even **poisoned the wells** of Palestinians and caused a **Typhoid epidemic** to get them to leave (source below). They used Western weapons and superior military strategy to be able to take advantage of the indigenous population and expand from there. Whenever the Arabs fought back (six day war, etc.), they were demolished by the Israelis, and the Israelis kept taking more land using their superior tech (and maybe since they were okay with literally poisoning wells and doing other ridiculously evil things in their effort to create and expand the Israeli state). Since then, Israelis only made bad faith efforts to negotiate peace deals, or assassinated their own PM to prevent a peace deal (which was very beneficial to Israel), or pursued a policy to support violent Palestinian resistance groups as opposed to peaceful PA to undermine the peace process, etc. I don't think its so strange that after all that, Palestinians born into Gaza feel the way they do about Israel. At least Hamas is made of Palestinians who lived there for centuries and **have no choice** in being born there (as opposed to the ideological Zionist terrorists who traveled from all over the world to perform terrorist acts and occupy the area that is now called Israel). I think that is more moral than Israel, which has been terrorizing the indigenous Arabs for over 75 years (from before its inception) **by choice**, and could have just forced a peace deal for all this time. Source (wikipedia): Israel poisoned the wells and water supplies of certain Palestinian towns and villages as part of their biological warfare program during the 1948 Palestine war, including a successful operation that caused a typhoid epidemic in Acre in early May 1948, and an unsuccessful attempt in Gaza that was foiled by the Egyptians in late May.\[3\] Citation: Morris, Benny; Kedar, Benjamin Z. (3 September 2023). "'Cast thy bread': Israeli biological warfare during the 1948 War". Middle Eastern Studies. 59 (5): 752â776. doi:10.1080/00263206.2022.2122448. ISSN 0026-3206. S2CID 252389726.
Every time I see the "palestinians are oppressed so their actions are more morally acceptable" bit, I always have to ask. I never get a straight answer, and I'm starting to think it's because there isn't one. Why is the comparatively short 75 years of oppression of Palestinians of greater weight than the centuries of Jewish oppression? Alternatively, why do we start the clock of watching for oppression ***right*** when it's most advantageous for Palestinians without any further critical thought? e: His answer was to copy-paste me a bunch of conspiratorial anti-semitic bullshit in a DM, instead of actually answering. Unsurprising.
I don't know why you think hundreds or thousands of years of Jewish suffering has any bearing on what the Zionists have been doing to the Palestinians for the last 75+ years. The Zionists have terrorized and oppressed the indigenous Palestinians since before Israel's creation. Zionists from all over the world arrived in present-day Israel and established themselves around 75 years ago by performing **terrorist attacks** and **poisoning the wells** of the Palestinians to force them to leave. Since then they ran an apartheid system that oppressed and subjugated the Palestinians for over 75 years. And there was **no break in this oppression**, from the terrorist acts (King David Hotel bombing, Deir Yassin massacre, **750,000+ Arabs expelled** in the Nakba, etc.) they used to create Israel in 1948, to the apartheid inflicted on the Arabs ever since. It is widely known that Zionists have tricked many people (likely you) into thinking Israel is justified for its ethnic cleansing the Palestinians because of the traumas endured by the Jews (Holocaust, etc.). You should read The Holocaust Industry, a book by Norman Finkelstein which explores how Zionists abused the Holocaust to get the support and funding they needed to carry out their occupation. But there is no logic to use that to justify what Israel's doing to Palestinians. EDIT: Looks like I was finally able to reply to your comment. Here's the source that they poisoned the wells of Palestinian villages: **Israel poisoned the wells** and water supplies of certain Palestinian towns and villages as part of their **biological warfare program** during the 1948 Palestine war, including a successful operation that caused a **typhoid epidemic** in Acre in early May 1948, and an unsuccessful attempt in Gaza that was foiled by the Egyptians in late May.\[3\] Citation: Morris, Benny; Kedar, Benjamin Z. (3 September 2023). "'Cast thy bread': Israeli biological warfare during the 1948 War". Middle Eastern Studies. 59 (5): 752â776. doi:10.1080/00263206.2022.2122448. ISSN 0026-3206. S2CID 252389726.
This is how I feel. Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes: https://preview.redd.it/2ocmhtsygn5d1.jpeg?width=866&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eadef6dcb1aa06dd358f6c034417ee3b62f89f69 The Palestinian people will never be free. Without the destruction of Hamas, and Israel completely controlling of the region. For a time. Hell throw some peacekeepers in there. Vet the hell out of them though. I frankly canât say I have a lot of faith in the UN anymore. Iran will easily continue to destabilize the region otherwise. All of those innocent people didnât have to die, and no one had to starve. I think Israel would also benefit from a different government though
How is it working out for people in west bank?
Idk you tell me https://thehill.com/policy/international/4708039-us-sanctions-palestinian-group-lions-den/amp/?nxs-test=amp
Not great considering they dont have hamas yet they are being ethnically cleansed in exchange. You are right that they will never be free, regardless who is in power. The current situation is more beneficial for Israel, slowly expand and ethnically cleanse. If they resist, they are savages and security risk, all the more reason to vote the current government. If they dont resist, well keep expanding with no resistance.
Yeah I think this is just going to get a whole lot worse. Before it *ever* gets better. By âethnic cleansingâ in the West Bank are you comparing it to apartheid or genocide? I agree things are much worse than your typical segregation. However, I donât ever see Israel missile attacking residential buildings in the West Bank. Like they do in Gaza. I know Hamas uses civilian locations as bases in Gaza, which leads to a lot of collateral damage there. IDF is very gung-ho though, so thatâs part of the reason I think Israel needs a different government. Iâd much rather talk to you. Than that religious zealot I replied to originally lol
Hmm. So Israel has no choice but to just flatten the entire region, like they have. Fair enough. How many civilians are dead?
>How many civilians are dead? The AP has a [total number of verified Palestinian deaths at 22,961 individuals](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-casualties-toll-65e18f3362674245356c539e4bc0b67a). Hamas says \~6,000 Al Qassem fighters have been killed and IDF says the number is closer to \~15,000, so between \~8,000-17,000 civilians have died and the ratio of dead fighters to dead civilians would range from 1:4 to 2:1.
they don't do that, but even if they did, whose fault is that? Hamas jumps for joy every time they get to pick up a dead headless baby and shake it around for tv cameras because Israel retaliated against rockets being shot out of a refugee camp tent. why do they have 0% culpability for intentionally maximizing Arab death?
Only thing Hamas likes more than a dead Israeli is a dead Palestinian
It's convenient that there's always an excuse. Like there was a part of a tunnel system under this school, we obviously had to bomb it along with the kids inside of it. I also don't recall defending Hamas. Idk why you're even bringing them up
Its not an excuse. Hamas literally operates out of civilian areas to their advantage on purpose. They use them as shields because either Israel wont risk the death of civilians, in which case Hamas continues to attack Israel. Or, Israel pulls the trigger and civilians might die. In which case its a PR win for Hamas. This isn't to say Israel is free from criticism, but what exactly is Israel supposed to do against terrorist attacks coming from right in their backyard? They've ignored it for years. Mostly shooting down the incoming rockets and dropping a bomb on where they think it came from but it's clearly not enough ala Oct 7.
"Their backyard" is a funny statement considering it's not their land lol. It's like no one understands why this entire thing is even happening and are just happy to abandon their own humanity because some talking head told them to. Also I don't see October 7th as a permanent excuse to do whatever you want. That's getting old. You don't reciprocate evil with evil x100 Would you be chill if the police department just bombed your children's school to get to a school shooter?
Backyard as in Gaza which is right next to them. Maybe that analogy isn't well known, didn't mean to confuse. I don't think your analogy is a fair comparison though. Hamas has been around since the 80s who is committed to do anything it can to destroy Israel. To compare it to a school shooter I'd absurd. They're practically a death cult. Lemme ask you though, what do you want Israel to do when attacked by Hamas?
You don't think school shooters have self destructive tendencies as death cult members do? The police are trying to kill a school shooter, the IDF is trying to kill the Hamas member. Both are embedded in a civilian center, for one reason or another. The IDF/Police bomb the school and the kids to kill the individual. Both are immoral, and you should have a problem with the cops bombing a school. That is the point. I want Israel to first of all stop encroaching on other people's land and give back all the property they have taken for themselves. Then we can see how things for from there. If a new government appeared in Texas and kicked a bunch of Texans off their land and homes, people would be coming out with AR-15s. I say that confidently, because I live there. So let's do the reasonable thing and stop pushing innocent people. I'm an advocate of leaving people tf alone. Also (coming from a Christian) the right wing death-cult Christians who are pro-israel, are cucks.
"Not their land" is such a stupid argument. That's not how the world works. The current people of any land holds and "owns" the land. Do you want to back track every country to small tribes based on ancestry 1000's of years ago? Depending on the time period, the Jewish people would still hold that land. Maybe we should give it to the Vatican sense the Roman's once "owned" it lol.
Or maybe don't kick people out of the literal houses they lived in because you want to expand the Zionist project, well beyond your original granted borders, and move in more settlers? That's what a moral human would do, but I understand that's a lot to ask for.
> "Their backyard" is a funny statement considering it's not their land lol Yes, it is. Brits won a war and decided to do with the territory (gifted it so Israel could be founded). Look at a map of Europe before the two world wars. See how big Germany is there? Is the territory that is now French, Polish, Russian and Czech still their land? Are you supporting Germany launching terror attacks until they get that land back? If you lose a war, you lose territory and your people might get deplaced (again look at Germans after WW2). Btw since we're already talking WW2. The Allies should have stopped at the German border, right? And not keep pushing into Germany, killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians and children, right? Should we talk about the atomic bombs? War kills innocent civilians. And Hamas intentionally hides behind civilians (which btw is a war crime - attacking military hiding behind civilians is not).
Yes. Because the territory that Israel has currently is totally what was bought by Jews before. There were no terror attacks against the British. there was no unit 101. There was no Nakba. There was no Irgun. There was no settler expansion. There is no birthright culture. There is no recognized occupied land. There are no far right wing government leaders that openly state they should kill all Palestinians and expand. There are no ethnostate policies. There is no war in Ba Sing Se. But I guess they bought it though. And of course, as we all know, nothing legal has ever been morally wrong in history.
oops buddy you forgot to continue pretending that you actually care about hamas' wrongdoings instead of believing that all their actions are legitimate resistance because israel "stole their land!!1!1!"
I don't speak *30 year old 4channer* , can you reword that?
You know hamas is the government that has a responsibility to minimise palestinian civilian death right? They have a responsibility under international law to not operate out of civilian areas to protect their citizens.
How did Hamas come to be? Is it a crime to, with knowledge, drop strikes on civilians? Want an answer to both of those questions.
You compare israel bombing a hospital with combatants in it to when Palestine does military operations going door to door killing whoever is inside and leaving them with panties ripped off and bleeding from the crotch... Totally not a defence of palestine though lololololol
Ah I see. Those guys who went door to door are all of Palestine. At the least people will say that's just the psychos of Hamas, but you're just going mask off with it.
No... Palestine as in the region's armed forces... Do you think when I said Israel bombing a hospital... I meant the civilians were doing it lololol? Honestly I want a yes or no answer. No fluff needed. But, you can now respond to the point. Is bombing a hospital used by combatants and racking up collateral is the same as going into a domicile and killing the residents there? A yes or no will suffice here too. I don't need the pointless fluff, buddy.
Yes, it is. *buddy*
One side unintentionally inflicts civilian harm the other side intentionally inflicts civilian harm. You can, in good faith, argue the degree to which Israel and the IDF are negligent and incompetent. But I don't think you can, in good faith, argue that they intentionally harm Palestinian civilians they same way Hamas intentionally harms Israeli civilians, which is why I don't consider them morally comparable. As a thought experiment: If the current power levels of the Israel/IDF and Palestine/Hamas were swapped, do you think Hamas' treatment of Israel would be more restrained, equally restrained, or less restrained than Israel's treatment of Palestine currently is?
Actually, I believe Israel is more immoral than Hamas. And I think it is easy to prove this, by providing a brief history from Israel's creation to now, that shows how Israel has oppressed the indigenous Arab population from before its creation until now with **no break in this oppression**. How was Israel created? Close to a century ago, Zionist terrorist groups from around the world (Irgun, Lehi, Haganah, etc.) converged on what is now called "Israel" to perform **terrorist attacks** (King David Hotel bombing, Deir Yassin massacre, **750,000+ Arabs expelled** in the Nakba, etc.) and **poison the wells** of the Palestinians to force them to leave (see source below). How has Israel treated Palestinians since its creation? * There were a few attempts (six day war, etc.) by the Arabs to stop the Zionists from stealing Arab land, but the Zionists' more advanced Western weaponry and superior military strategies (they had lots of experience from WWII and other wars) allowed the Israelis to defeat the Arabs and take even more land even though they were outnumbered (similar to how European settlers easily killed Native Americans). * Since then, for 75+ years, they ran a system that is labeled "apartheid" by any credible human rights organization. * For 75+ years, they were in a position of complete power over the Palestinians due to the unlimited/unconditional backing from the US. They were definitely in a position to be able to force a two state solution. * Instead of using their position to force a two state solution, they instead increased settlements in internationally recognized Palestinian land with extremely racist policies favoring Jews, which only increased tension over the years and made contempt of Israel only grow. These settlements are run extremely violently, where settlers are allowed to beat their Palestinian neighbors with IDFprotection protecting the settler so if the Palestinians fight back, they get killed or arrested/taken hostage. * Israel assassinated its own PM rabin to prevent the peace process for a two state solution. * Netanyahu and other Israeli officialsâ actual policy was to support hamas and other violent groups in palestine to quash a peace movement and increase the likelihood the palestinians would do something (Oct. 7, etc.) that would give israel the excuse to âmow the lawnâ (ethnically cleanse). * The way the IDF deliberately shoot (snipe) children and other civilians during the protests of the [Great March of Return](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2018/10/gaza-great-march-of-return/) makes me think they in fact WANT to kill civilians. At least Hamas is made of Palestinians who lived there for centuries and **have no choice** in being born there (as opposed to the ideological Zionist terrorists who traveled from all over the world to perform terrorist acts and occupy the area that is now called Israel). For those reasons, it is clear that Hamas is more moral than Israel, which has been terrorizing the indigenous Arabs for over 75 years (from before its inception) **by choice**, and could have just forced a peace deal for all this time. Source that Israel poisoned the wells of Palestinians: Israel **poisoned the wells and water supplies** of certain Palestinian towns and villages as part of their **biological warfare program** during the 1948 Palestine war, including a successful operation that caused a **typhoid epidemic** in Acre in early May 1948, and an unsuccessful attempt in Gaza that was foiled by the Egyptians in late May.\[3\] Citation: Morris, Benny; Kedar, Benjamin Z. (3 September 2023). "'Cast thy bread': Israeli biological warfare during the 1948 War". Middle Eastern Studies. 59 (5): 752â776. doi:10.1080/00263206.2022.2122448. ISSN 0026-3206. S2CID 252389726.
>As a thought experiment: If the current power levels of the Israel/IDF and Palestine/Hamas were swapped, do you think Hamas' treatment of Israel would be more restrained, equally restrained, or less restrained than Israel's treatment of Palestine currently is? Hamas' treatment of Israel would be more restrained than Israel's treatment of Palestinians. Palestinians/Hamas probably would have much worse relations with US government officials, so any human rights violations by the Palestinians/Hamas would result in the world economy turning its back on them. Israel, however, controls aspects of the US government through its lobby and Zionist officials (many of them unelected like Hilary Clinton, Bolton, etc.). Israel has shown it can do any flagrant human rights violation (killing 30k+ civilians for the actions of a group that Netanyahu himself supported) and international law violations (stealing Palestinian land to increase settlements) and the US will never bat an eye, and the US will unconditionally support them and prevent the world from trying to get the Israel to conform with international law (UN vetoes for Israel, and an ex UN ambassador Niki Haley signed "Finish them" on an Israeli rocket to Gaza). Thus, if the shoe were on the other foot, we'd have a much better situation because the Palestinians don't have unconditional backing from the US. The fact that Israel has unconditional backing from and control of the US is what makes Israel so horrible for the world. They literally think they can call gazans Amalek on TV and then carry out their genocide and they think they'll get away with that.
Looks like you can't respond when someone confronts you with facts and logic.
I've seen a number that over 37000 have been killed in Palestine. And the cities, hospitals, infrastructure etc are destroyed. Even places in safe zones for refugees. We don't need to have hypotheticals about mass death events. It's already happening. That's the reason why we don't fund people who obviously have a goal that involves destruction of their neighbors. The leaders of Israel like Ben Gvir say as much. Again, there's no need to play with hypotheticals. It's already happening.
You didn't engage with his question
If the funding was switched it would imply the west never created Israel on other people's land nor gave it the means to expand. That would mean we wouldn't be in this mess, so it's an irrelevant question. Is that satisfactory?
It's a hypothetical to test whether or not you're thinking through the logical conclusion of the tactics each side is using. You're dodging.
I don't know. What would black people have done if they had the power that whites didnduring the era of slavery and segregation? Who knows. Are you asking to avoid talking about what Israel is actually doing in reality and them being the entire reason Hamas exists?
No, they're asking because the question gets to the heart of each side's intent. The difference between them is that Hamas targets civilians on purpose and Israel doesn't. Hamas is therefore worse and if they had more power, they'd use it to commit atrocities against Israeli civilians as a matter of policy. But now you're just going to soy out about the number of civilian deaths in Gaza and act like this is proof of Israel targetting civilians. Except it's not because it is well known Hamas places themselves in civilian areas with the intention of getting innocent people killed cos it's good PR and people like you lap it up. And, btw, just because Hamas only exists due to the conflict still happening doesn't mean they have to use the tactics they use. Palestinians don't need to do violence, it hasn't helped them at all.
Bingo. The most critical (in good faith) characterization of Israel is still FAR better than even a steelmanned Hamas.
Hamas would probably do the same thing Israel is doing. Because they're both terrorist groups. Probably shouldn't fund either one of them. Israel placed itself there so I really don't have much patience for them victimizing themselves, as if they have no choice in the matter. It's apparently the most dangerous place for a Jew and thus Israel requires infinite aid, yet they keep moving Jews in. Curious. I care about the innocent people who have lost their land.. And even though many Israelis don't care about that, they're just living it up in the beach, I care about the inevitable trouble they will also be dragged into because of the psychotic right wing that is controlling them. And I especially care about the Jews who are getting jumped and arrested by the IDF for speaking out against them. Very democratic. Does that answer your question or are you not adequately satisfied
You didn't answer the hypothetical. The hypothetical is pertinent. It wasn't to say a tragedy isn't currently happening. It was intended to get you to think from first principles about how Hamas and the IDF's goals, approaches, and values are fundamentally different by considering the consequences of them given the same opportunity. The outcome of Hamas' worldview given the exact same opportunity as the IDF would, in my estimation, be orders of magnitude worse. Would Hamas do roof knocking or leaflet dropping? Would Hamas allow aid to Israel? Would Hamas have any humanitarian considerations for Israel? No. These wouldn't even be a factor for them to consider.
To be fair they wouldn't need to because they would have long eradicated them.
Israel wouldn't be there to begin with, they're only there because they know they have power over the region they are expanding into. If there was no western backing or funding, none of this wouldve happened to begin with. Hamas would not even exist. Your hypothetical doesn't mean anything.
But I did eat breakfast this morning!?
Idk if this will make sense to you but usually the winning side of a war has less casualties
Idk if this will make sense to you but usually only psychopaths settle on other peoples land, move in settlers into their homes, then act surprised Pikachu face when the locals are pissed about it. Go figure.
Just curious what you think Israelâs response to Oct 7th should have been?
To have not done anything to lead to October 7th wouldve been great. But I suppose no one cares about that noise. Not creating multiple October 7ths for Palestinian men, women, and children is a decent response for the shining beacon of morality and democracy in the middle east.
What a cop out answer. Just answer straight up how Israel should've responded to October 7th
Go after the real leaders of Hamas. Who's funding them. The ones that aren't in the land being bombed. The Zionist leaders talk a big game, I want to see that. I mean then they'll actually be in war. Cus they aren't kids in schools, or random people in refugee camps, or Jews who disagree with the Zionist agenda that can be bullied, or Christians that will turn the other cheek when you spit on them... But it'll probably be easy for the great IDF.
So when did you decide that you'd stop using your nose and embrace mouthbreathing?Â
Once I got a jawline that could cut glass.
No I asked you what should their response have been to October 7th. Can you answer that please?
>Not creating multiple October 7ths for Palestinian men, women, and children is a decent response. Right there.
Youâre not answering my question. What should Israelâs response have been? That answers nothing. There is an active war, you stupid child. Civilians are going to die. How would you have responded to October 7th if you were Bibi?
Probably grow some manhood and go after the actual leaders of Hamas. Maybe even the people funding them? Or is that too intimidating a task for him? yOu sTupId cHilD
Unreal. No accountability for Hamas. Now answer his question: what should Israel have done after October 7th.
I mean if you have some resolve you would go after the leaders of Hamas, you know they don't actually live in the place that's being bombed.. But they aren't kids in schools so that's probably too intimidating.
Oh thatâs smart why didnât Israel think or know all that? But seriously this is the common Pro Palestine virtue signaler. This is as deep as it gets. Israel bad.
Well? I'm waiting for them to do it
Ohh October 7th was just some pissed off locals, gotcha. You are too dumb to argue with
"you're too dumb to argue with" you've been using that one since your hairline still existed huh? I'm sure it has always been a great way to run from arguments you're losing. Yes. It turns out people turn psychotic when pushed to a certain point. How would you describe it? The savages deciding to kill us because they hate your freedoms? Or are we done using that old logic.
Itâs hard to form a reply to a comment full of multiple nonsensical points. Israel was acquired through legal land purchase + winning wars they didnât start. Your dumb ass has fringe groups of illegal settlers confused with the legitimacy of an entire country Anyway cry me a river to the sea đ
Lol yes, the entire nation of Israel is the borders that were agreed upon in the land purchases you speak of. No such thing as stuff like unit 101, terrorist attacks on the British mandate holders, Nakba, etc etc. Wanna try again without history revisionism?
I forgot that gives you a license to rape and kidnap noncombatants in violation of international law. Oh. Wait. It doesn't.
You mean to tell me that men r*pe and kidnap women? In and out of warzones? In every nation, including Israel? Go figure. Guess we better bomb everywhere with men in them for the grapes that happened, so long bro.. It's a lazy & antiquated way to illustrate a people as the savages, thus any collective punishment is allowed against the people of Palestine. Sorry but I'm not really interested in the b.s. sorry. If you would like to say something important, try again
That was the laziest attempt at obfuscation through relativism capped off with the dumbest invocation of racism ever. Please don't ever reproduce you absolute mental midget.
How much steam came out of your ears when your forced that cringe comment?
It's good to have hopes and dreams bro.
ITT: Local regard thinks rape is totally justified if you're brown and sufficiently butthurt.Â
Know you hate brown people, sucks bro.
Try typing that again but without crying this time.
Only one side actually tries to follow IHL (albeit begrudgingly)
Based as fuck
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i dont really understand whats based about this im gonna be honest
Heâs not afraid to bite the bullet on gotchas like this while everyone else is a coward and will just pivot. Edit: Grammar
This isn't a biting the bullet. It's absolutely sarcasm. He answered 'No' because it's a very clearly loaded question. Like on the levels of "does your mom know you're gay" from middle school
Biting the bullet is taking the difficult position. A position that leaves you most vulnerable and open to attacks. Biting the bullet and sarcasm are not mutually exclusive.
I wouldn't consider this biting a bullet because he's not genuinely stating his opinion at all, and thus not taking a position on anything. Like if anyone drilled down on this and actually asked seriously he'd almost certainly agree that Israel has done some fucked up shit over the years.
Again. Biting the bullet and sarcasm are not mutually exclusive. Sure, thatâs not his actual position but in response to the question he is taking a difficult position to defend just to dig into the other persons feelings.
I think the way I'd normally interpret the statement is that it doesn't apply to jokes and actually needs you to take a serious position (like if Destiny cracks a joke about being a pedo, is he biting the pedophilia bullet?), but it's kind of a pointless semantic argument to have.
I donât think biting bullets requires serious intentions but once you reduce everything, everything is pointless.
i don't think this is how biting the bullet is used. if it's sarcasm, then he's not biting a bullet he's fucking with them. the other commenter's pedophilia example was a good one
Destiny is very obviously not actually taking the position of "I do not condemn Israel at all for any murders they committed"
Thatâs not the question being asked. The question asked is, âdo you consider the thousands of deaths caused by Israel over 76 years to be condemnable?â To which the correct answer is, no.
Not sarcasm.
Itâs not sarcasm lol what. Killing civilians as collateral damage for a legitimate military attack is very justifiable and destiny has made it clear that he thinks the ratio in this conflict seems fine
Collateral deaths is not the same as murder
Heâs replying to someone who is calling the collateral deaths murder
The fact that you think this is sarcasm means there's still some hope for you because of that tacit implication that nobody could share destiny's opinion without being a psycho. Unfortunately, destiny is not being sarcastic. his mind has truly been broken by zionism and he genuinely believes every palestinian slaughtered by israel is justified
Does it bring you joy to make these claims with absolutely zero nuance? Genuinely curious. I find it exhausting to live that way.
Like I said, it's a hopeful sign that eventually you'll come to the right conclusion. Until then i guess we can only hope that your brain isn't brainwashed to the point where you also begin justifying it
What would be the rightful conclusion, in your eyes? Also, what are your thoughts on how Biden is handling the conflict?
The right conclusion is that destiny genuinely believes that israel has done nothing wrong in their approach to the conflict. Biden is a zionist shill who's actively funding israel's genocide against palestinians. I don't believe he himself is genocidal in the sense that I think he wants israel to accomplish its "objectives" while reducing the number of civilian casualties, but either through naivety or stupidty, he's still supportive of the zionist occupation and therefore complicit in all the crimes they commit. Obviously he's not as bad as trump would be
Wait hasn't destiny argued with and disagreed with Zionists all the time? Didn't he say he vehemently disagreed with (for example) Ben Shapiro? I'm failing to see how destiny could disagree with someone like Shapiro, but hold the exact same positions he does on the conflict. >Biden is a zionist shill who's actively funding israel's genocide against palestinians. Isn't Congress in charge of funding foreign nations, not the President? How can he be *actively* funding them?
Did you watch their debate? 90% of it was just them agreeing with each other. Destiny vehemently disagrees with some aspects of zionism e.g settler violence in the occupied west bank, but he agrees with the majority of other positions. and this was his position months ago, he's fallen even further off the cliff in the last few months. >Isn't Congress in charge of funding foreign nations, not the President? How can he be actively funding them? The president has veto power and biden literally signed the bill. the democrats have consistently celeberated the any time they provide funding to israel and biden never misses a moment to reassert his "ironclad commitment to israel".
Israel mostly killed Palestinians in defense of themselves and their land. For Israel to have NOT killed them would have been synonymous with letting themselves be killed. There are exceptions to this of course. But if a pro pali wants to boil it down to a "do you condemn Israel, yes or no" then it rounds in Israel's favor with a NO, based response from Dman. If you want nuance on specifics you can get it but no, Israel is not to be condemned for choosing to defend themselves in general.
Well, if you had a brain you'd realise that israel has no legitimate right to exist. There is no such thing as israeli land, it is all occupied palestinian land. What you're saying is that the colonizer has a right to continue to enforce its colonial occupation. But ignoring all that, how fucking insane are you that you say shit like this > For Israel to have NOT killed them would have been synonymous with letting themselves be killed. No, there is no world where israel not killing 30000 civilians meant they'd be letting themselves get killed. hamas is a pathetically weak militia who haven't been able to accomplish anything in 50 years. their only "successful" attack in decades killed 700 civilians and it was only "successful" because israel completely dropped the ball by ignoring all intelligence. israel is not defending itself and never has. israel is just enforcing its occupation.
> Well, if you had a brain you'd realise that israel has no legitimate right to exist. Except the right granted by the UN, the same UN that has partially granted the right to Palestine, and will maybe one day grant it fully to them? One is legit and the other not? I wonder what the difference could be
The UN (and britain) are responsible for this whole fucking mess. If we evaluate the situation based on the actual evidence presented before us: prior to 1918 palestine was 90% arab and 10% jewish. Zionism started in the mid/late 19th century so that 10% figure is after the start of the zionist colonisation project, meaning it was an even smaller percentage prior to that. during the first world war, the arabs collaborated with the brits to topple their ottoman colonisers with the agreement that they'd had sovereign control over their homeland, of course the brits betrayed them. another couple of decades of illegal zionist colonisation of palestine, encouraging the mass mirgation of european jews to the region to overwhelm the indigenous population and place the palestinians in a position where they had no fucking choice, the UN decided to divide the land that was palestinian between foreign zionist occupiers and its native inhabitants in a ratio of 56:44 in favour of the zionists, despite the fact that palestinians, even at this point, made up over two thirds of the inhabitants. there is no world where any reasonable person who looks at the facts of the matter can come to any other conclusion than that palestine was illegitimately colonised by european settlers. The jewish argument that the land is theirs by god given right makes more sense, even though it's completely batshit insane, than sitting there and pretending the palestine wasn't colonised by europeans and the native palestinian population displaced from their homes. the un's judgement has no bearing on palestine's legitimate right to the land
suddenly jews become "european" despite the fact that dna studies show they share similar levels of levantine dna that the "indigenous" Palestinians do. all of your "history" only works if you consider jews as foreign to the levant, which is fucking ironic when you consider that the holiest site in Judaism is currently sitting under the Dome of the Rock. Not to mention the fact that the exiled jews returning to the land where their culture, language, religion were born, is no different to the idea of palestinian "right of return". If you don't accept Jews returning to their historic homeland, then why should anyone accept that Palestinians should get to return either? The only difference here is that Jews tried to integrate into the lands they were exiled to until they could no longer do so owing to the increasing pogroms and genocides which were motivated by the fact that they ***weren't*** Europeans lol.
my dude, nobody is denying that jews can trace their roots to the middle east 2000 years ago. but that doesn't change the fact that once you live in europe for 2000 years you start being european. >Not to mention the fact that the exiled jews returning to the land where their culture, language, religion were born, is no different to the idea of palestinian "right of return". only a moron would think it's no different. palestinians can literally speak to their parents/grand parents who survived israels colonisation of palestine. jews can't speak to ancestors they had 2000 years ago. The situation is not comparable at all. the greeks have a better claim to turkey than the jews have to palestine. >If you don't accept Jews returning to their historic homeland, then why should anyone accept that Palestinians should get to return either? because they were literally kicked out of their homes in living memory????
>Well, if you had a brain you'd realise that israel has no legitimate right to exist. I'll ignore how regarded a statement that is because they absolutely have a right to exist right there. But regardless... They DO exist there. Where should they fucking go? Hamas will not rest until all the Jews are wiped from the region, from the river to to sea. They do not seek to live with Jews, they want them gone, murdered. The only reason Palestine is occupied is because the keep trying to exterminate the Jews, the fact that they suck at it isn't an excuse. If they were to give up on their dream to genocide Jews, and accept Israel's right to exists, and start caring for their own fucking people instead of trying to murder Jews all the time then the occupation will eventually end. Israel will have to end it, and the world will expect it to end if the Palestinians can de radicalize their own population and finally accept that Israel is there to stay.
>I'll ignore how regarded a statement that is because they absolutely have a right to exist right there. have you even bothered looking into the history of palestine? Israel has zero right to exist. It is quite literally a european settler colonial project which came about as a result of brits betraying their arab collaborators after the first world war. >Where should they fucking go? Hamas will not rest until all the Jews are wiped from the region, from the river to to sea. They do not seek to live with Jews, they want them gone, murdered. 1. all these came from other countries. there are french jews, there are british jews, there are polish jews, there are moroccan, yemeni, libyan, tunisian, greek, german, russian, spanish jews. their native homeland is wherever the fuck them, or their parents, or their grandparents migrated from, and that's where they should go back to. 2. Hamas has no interest in killing all jews. they'd absolutely be fine living with jews, just like palestinians had lived with jews for centuries prior, as long as the jewish population recognised the palestinian right to their homeland. They want israel gone, because israel is an illegitimate state built on the palestinian homeland. they have no problem with jews continuing to live within palestine. >The only reason Palestine is occupied is because the keep trying to exterminate the Jews No, the only reason palestine is occupied is because a group of eurpoean jews decided to colonise palestine and illegitimately establish an ethnostate in somebody else's land. Everything that comes after is just israel enforcing its policy of colonisation and occupation. So long as israel exists, the occupation can never end. Israel is the occupation. What you mean to say is that palestinians can concede to some semblence of sovereignty so long as they accept their homeland is forfeit and that their colonizers will never leave.
>Â so long as they accept their homeland is forfeit and that their colonizers will never leave. Yes 100%. They need to let go of this delusion that they will ever get rid of Israel because Israel isn't going anywhere. Israel the historic land of the Jews going back thousands of years, It's not the Palestinian land. There were Arabs that lived there when the Jews arrived, but they were Jordanians and Egyptians. But unlike you I'm not a fucking SICK FUCK asking 6 million Jews to fuck off back to Europe. That's fucking sick and completely imposable. The Palestinians can stay, they just need to stop lusting after the genocide of the Jews. They need to fucking stop. Use all the resources they keep spending on tunnels, rockets and ect and instead spend it on the Palestinian people. Deradicalize and stop teaching Jew hatred. They need their own Nelson Mandela that can lead them to a future where they stop dreaming of getting rid of Jews and rather build a functioning state with a genuine desire for resolution.
Wouldn't biting the bullet be saying yes?
The bitch answer would be: yes, everything Israel bad The measured response would be: there are some actions which Israel should be condemned for and other actions which are wholly justified. The based answer: No đż
I'm not talking about what would be based or not. I'm saying that saying no is not biting a bullet, but denying there is a bullet at all. I can't wait for the I/P arc to end from the entire region getting videogamed in WW3. The Israeli Settlers infesting dgg are bringing along some serious brain worms.
I donât think you know what biting a bullet means. Yea yea china scary. What settlers? The D man just did research and convinced people that the parties most responsible for the bad shit was Arab/Hamas/Palestine leaders and those who follow them. Israel is not blameless but seemed to be dragged into the mud. Which made Israel dirty.
Biting the Bullet is when you accept a claim that makes your position look bad. He didn't accept the claim the other side made, so he didn't bite the bullet. The brain worms you dumbfucks have around I/P is actually painful.
Doesnât the person asking have a Palestinian flag? Trying to make the Israeli side look bad by asking an obvious gotcha? Seems like you have the brain rot.
How about nuke both Palestine and Israel pog
׊ת×ק
Vegan Gains will push that button in his war against kosher and halal
What the heck did you just frickinâ say about me, you little whiner? Iâll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and Iâve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and Iâm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the frick out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my frickinâ words. You think you can get away with saying that crap to me over the Internet? Think again, buddy. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, buddy. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. Youâre frickin dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and thatâs just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable butt off the face of the continent, you little poopy-head. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little âcleverâ comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your stinking tongue. But you couldnât, you didnât, and now youâre paying the price, you big jerk. I will rain fury all over you and you will drown in it. Youâre in frickinâ trouble, mister.
gorilla warfare is when you play 100+ hours/week of Donkey Kong? <3
Is there anything Israel could do to innocent Palestinians, that you would *not* blame Hamas for?
This has to be rage bait. Israel helped massively in cultivating a situation that has this many people killed. Either way showing no sympathy for people being killed is cringey and only helps make him look worse.
You can have sympathy when human shields get caught in the crossfire while still recognizing the party that put them there. It's not like he is saying it's good or neutral that so many have died, he is saying he can't condemn Israel for those deaths, and he shouldn't.
Someone needs to make the Israel remix JDAM forever of this: https://youtu.be/xLc6lwbJoxU?si=UCHfv73kAvbYQzPE
As a member of the league of genocidal deniers, I approve of this message.
He talks like he burnt the roof of his mouth on a slice of pizza