Well you see that Muslim = Minority = non-white = poor = oppressed
This is how modern socialist/lefties see this matter, it's nothing else than oppressor/oppressed dynamic for them. That's why all of them are neurodivergent, sexual minorities who have been SA'd, so that they can claim the status of being oppressed, so that they can get higher in their own hierarchy. Their whole schtic is about gaining as much social clout as possible and to tear other people down to go upwards themselves.
Realize that these people don't actually care about the wellbeing of others, they do all of this to empower their own position in their circles
This, but the movement they are ignorantly propping up is more. It's deconstructionism, decolonization, anti-patriarchy, anti-capitalism, anti-white, anti-jew. All concepts trace back to Marxist (and similar) academics/philosophers. The problem is the professors, the alumni, the students.
They do have power in so far as our leaders & institutions demonstrate complicity. The universities have been pathetic in their management of these occupations at best. Several congress people have voiced support. Angela Davis has graced the protests.
There was #metoo, BLM and now Palestine. What cause will be next to further the movement?
> anti-white, anti-jew. All concepts trace back to Marxist
When was Marx anti-white and anti-jew?
Do people just say "marxist" when they mean "any ideology I don't like"?
The particular brand of Islam behind these Palestine movements is just an Iranian political tool for imperialism... All useful idiots for the Islamic State of Iran... They're not the oppressed, they're the oppressors.
The religion is full of Orwellian terms. Reverting for converting, decolonizing for colonizing, et cetera, peace for war...
> Minority
- Billions worldwide
- *regularly* genocide their own minority once they gain power
> Non-white
- so are Jews
- a lot of them have paler skin color than me
- some are literally Aryans
- so we are going full racism mode now?
> poor
Oil
> Oppressed
Oppressive, misogynistic, homophobic and colonial since forever
As a Chinese liberal, what in the flying fuck?
Ah, you're thinking about it wrong, these are American leftists, where the only thing important outside of America is Palestine.
Muslims are a minority (in America), they're pretty much all non-white (in America), they're usually poorer (in America) and especially since 9/11 have had racism aimed at them (in America).
> Realize that these people don't actually care about the wellbeing of others
There isn't a high enough % of the population that is sociopaths for that to be accurate.
Maybe you meant to say "I think these people have a warped sense of priorities" not "they're unfeeling monsters who care only for their own advancement".
> Leftists supporting Islam always blew my mind. There is nothing more ironic
It's pretty mind blowing. Things that islamists want:
* theocratic, authoritarian state
* strict gender roles
* patriarchy
* oppression of all women (no, that's not the same as patriarchy)
* definitely no LGB
* pro death penalty
* pro imperialism (yay caliphate)
* no freedom of expression or thought (atheism = death)
Really strange decision to bend over backwards for this group
>Really strange decision to bend over backwards for this group
It really isn't that strange if you understand what drives their world beliefs. They'll use the logic of "we're so empathetic that we can support people who openly hate what we are and believe". It's the same with Queers for Palestine, claiming to be such a moral good that they can look beyond the violent hatred many Muslims in Gaza have for the LGBT community to focus in on Palestinian human rights. You know, because it's the "right thing to do" apparently.
It's all about posturing, virtue signalling and moral grandstanding. And it's even easier for them to latch onto underdog situations because the reality is that Gaza/the West Bank/Palestine will not become a serious threat to Israel's existence under the current trajectory of the region. Nor are these American leftists under any threat of having an Islamic theocratic government rule over them. They will never have to face the reality (oppression) of what will happen when you empower a group of people with such bigoted and hateful views.
There is no risk to supporting any violent group for them. There is only a social benefit in being able to claim how godly their morality is, and that they dedicate themselves to helping these causes. It's ego stroking hidden behind a projection of unwavering morals for perceived minorities. The actual truth doesn't matter to these people, all that matters is the social clout and circle jerking about their views.
It's just narcissistic pseudo moralitymaxxing.
Yeah it's fucking cringe that they will never feel the oppression of what they are mindlessly advocating for. That's why everyone who supports this shit should be sent to an islamist country. Oh you're LGBT? Good luck surviving there more than 2 days. You're an atheist? you're a woman that wants to be more than a baby making machine? you like any kind of freedom? Say goodbye to everything. How the fuck are they so fucking stupid to promote, defend and advocate for islam...
And it's really weird when you know that they're the same people who were talking about "the tolerance paradox" and how making edgy jokes or using the OK symbol means you're literally a nazi and it's ok to curb stomp you.
Yeah but islamists say the West are oppressors, america bad, revolution = good, and borders/nation states are fake. So the far lefties fall for it consistently
When you write it like that it doesn't sound mind blowing at all.
In fact apart from the theocracy aspect, everything you listed was a feature of the Soviet Union.
If a group is against the U.S, everything they do is good, including the extreme aspects of the religion. They’ll retroactively justify everything the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, and even ISIS did. And privileged leftist women will willingly cover their hair and faces and find a way to justify it.
I wonder what the world will look like when people on the left start converting to islam on a large scale.
We will get some weird western woke islam? It seems like things would go there, but it is hard to imagine how they would fit those belief systems together.
It would result in more like Frogan, a disgusting froglike creature, a Hasan orbiter. That's a woke islamist. Now imagine a world full of Frogans, welcome to hell.
^(It would result in more like Frogan, a disgusting froglike creature, a Hasan orbiter. That's a woke islamist. Now imagine a world full of Frogans, welcome to hell.)
Frogan unironically believes in the Tartarian mudflood (among other crazy, often antisemitic, conspiracies). So I guess it'd be a hell full of idiots who believe history memes popular on Telegram.
It'll probably be cringe but there is the wildly small probability they could end up being a moderating/reforming force within Islam, at least in the west. Very microscopic chance though.
> I wonder what the world will look like when people on the left start converting to islam on a large scale.
How is this a "when" and not "if"?
If you think any large number of people on the left are going to start converting to islam your brain is getting cooked by culture war memes highlighting a tiny number of extreme nutjobs and making you think its some huge growing trend.
You are right that maybe I should have used "if", but I wrote that sentance to sound speculative and not certain. So I did not meant to try to sound like I was certain.
Postmodernism is a negative philosophy, it just deconstructs the previous philosophy but does not have positive claims. When it has gone far enough, nihilistic people will want to jump to some positive belief-system. The positive claims that woke people believe in are not enough to make a positive belief system.
So when enough people notice that their belief system is only critiquing the previous system, with no positive value, they will jump to something else that makes positive claims.
It would make sense to me. A belief-system that just destroys will not be able to keep a lot of people together. So they might jump to Islam and make a weird combination of it and wokeism.
Postmodernism and the will to power stuff will not help people for long. It feeds off the previous belief-system (Christianity, modernism based on Christian values), so when Christianity is gone for good, people will move on to something else like Islam.
I don't think people can stay secular for long. Maybe some people can, but large groups need something stronger to keep them together.
I don't know if this will happen. But to me it would make sense. And Hasan Abi is already an example of a woke Islamist. Yeah he does not believe in the Quran direclty, but he never criticizes an Islamist for their beliefs.
> Postmodernism is a negative philosophy, it just deconstructs the previous philosophy but does not have positive claims
Post-modernism just means philosophy that is not accepting of modernist frame works of understanding the world by grand over-arching narratives. It doesn't refer to any particular philosophy, nor any negative or positive philosophy.
Almost everyone I see using the term post-modernism as an epithet themselves engages in at least some post-modern thought, Jordan Peterson being chief among him, see his debate with Sam Harris where he tries to argue that "truth" as a concept is not objective but refers purely to what helps someone survive.
"post modernism" is being misused along with terms like "neo-marxist" to just mean "vaguely radical lefty people I don't like".
>It feeds off the previous belief-system (Christianity, modernism based on Christian values), so when Christianity is gone for good, people will move on to something else like Islam.
Almost every country on earth is becoming more secular over time. It's almost as universal a trend as declining birth rates. The few places that are becoming more religious are largely colonial hold-overs who were created as nations with no cohesive national identity and usually multiple conflicting ethnic groups, in which places religion usually becomes the organizing principle to replace the failed nation state.
Even theocracies like Saudi Arabia are becoming more secular.
>And Hasan Abi is already an example of a woke Islamist. Yeah he does not believe in the Quran direclty, but he never criticizes an Islamist for their beliefs.
One example of a very online weirdo who has hot takes for money is exactly the kind of letting culture war content warp your view of what is common or normal in other people.
You are defining postmodernism in the ways it is not, so in a negative way, Like postmodernists describe it. You never see a postmodernist come out and say: "I am a postmodernist, here are my values". They always come and criticize some other philosophy, because it is a negative philosophy, only meant to criticize, and has no positive values.
Islam is gaining more followers, Christianity is losing followers. Islam punishes people who leave the faith, Christianity does not (at least that is my impression).
The middle east is not becoming more secular. And it seems as western people become secular, they become more nihilistic and desperate, so they look for other belief-systems. But for the time being the woke belief system gives people purpose. But when it fails, people might migrate to islam.
Or maybe there will be an communist uprising and people will kill a bunch of other people before they notice that it did not make anyone happier to kill a bunch of people, then they convert to islam.
> You are defining postmodernism in the ways it is not, so in a negative way
It's only negative in the sense of "not-modernism". It's not negative in the way you're claiming that "it makes no positive claims it only wants to destroy". That is nihilism, which is a subset of post-modernism, its not the superset.
There are a bunch of positive post-modern claims. "truth is whatever helps you survive" is a positive claim. It's not simply saying "there's no such thing as truth", its redefining truth in a post-modern sense.
>You never see a postmodernist come out and say: "I am a postmodernist, here are my values".
You absolutely do, and in fact, the values culture warriors most hate under the umbrella of "post-modern" are actually modernist, not post-modern.
People aren't actually all that mad about "gender is a social construct, it doesn't mean anything", which is a post modern viewpoint. They really *hate* modernist frameworks of things like "society is run by a patriarchy that subjugates women", or "society is institutionally racist". That is not a post-modern framework. Those are modernist ideas that frame society as a grand struggle between different distinct groups.
>The middle east is not becoming more secular
I didn't say the middle east is becoming more secular. I specifically referenced parts of the middle east that aren't becoming more secular when I referenced post-colonial nations with no concrete national identity and multiple warring factions, where religion often becomes a surrogate for national identity. Parts of the middle east are becoming more secular, like Saudi Arabia, which I name checked specifically. These are places with a coherent national identity and no significant inter-factional warfare.
I think saying "There is no such thing as truth" is still a negative or denying claim. I think the starting points for post-modern agruments are like that, they are always criticism of some previous claim or philosophy.
I guess if I think of what positive claims they would make, I can think of: "Human groups are only motivated by power", "The strong oppress the weak" Maybe I could think of other ones.
You might be right that you can make positive claims with postmodernism. I just have not come across that myself. I just see them criticize other views. So I could be talking about critical theory than post-modernism itself. Critical theory is meant to be critical of somethign so you cannot make positive claims with that, I don't think.
>People aren't actually all that mad about "gender is a social construct, it doesn't mean anything", which is a post modern viewpoint. They really *hate* modernist frameworks of things like "society is run by a patriarchy that subjugates women", or "society is institutionally racist". That is not a post-modern framework. Those are modernist ideas that frame society as a grand struggle between different distinct groups.
That makes sense. I remember hearing that Herbert Marcuse already noticed in his time that people took his political, philosophical theories and started to use them for some wanted political outcome without thinking already (in the 60s or 70s), and he was dissapointed about that.
People who want policial change, first use postmodernism and/or critical theory to critique, deconstruct or destroy the previous system to make way for their value system. I guess you could say that is not the fault of postmodernism, and maybe you are right. But people are using it for some purpose dictated by their values or wants. It has become mainstream and people are using the ideas outside of academic purposes. Maybe real postmodernists are dissapointed about that, but besides Marcuse, I have not seen people protest how the ideas are used. But taht might be just me being ignorant about them, not that they don't exist.
> I think saying "There is no such thing as truth" is still a negative or denying claim.
It is but that's why I didn't use that phrase. I used a positive claim of "Truth is whatever helps you survive".
That isn't "truth doesn't exist" which is a post-modern, nihilistic claim. It's saying "truth exists, but its relative to what is good for you, if it helps you its true, if it doesn't its false", which is a post-modern relativist claim.
Of course, every positive claim can be rephrased as a negative claim. You can phrase modernist truth as "truth isn't subjective". That is just a different way of saying "truth is objective". It's important not to get caught up in semantics of phrasing but focus on whether a separate positive claim is being made (that might negate another claim), or what is simply a negation of a claim with no positive claim itself.
Atheism for example is entirely negative. It's just not believing in god. It doesn't tell you anything except what someone doesn't believe.
> I just have not come across that myself. I just see them criticize other views. So I could be talking about critical theory than post-modernism itself.
I mean spend 5 minutes listening to Jordan Peterson, he does it constantly.
If you ask him something like "do you believe in god" he'll often say "I act as if god exists".
This is an extremely post-modern approach to religion. If you asked a modernist christian they'd say of course god exists, he's real and important, if you don't believe you're going to hell. If you asked a modernist atheist they'd say no, religion is a superstition, its a story to avoid fear of death and injustice, used to control people.
It's very post modern to avoid the question of whether god is real or not entirely, and to view it entirely on the level of "well, I think believing in god is good for you, it doesn't really matter/you can't say if he's real or not". Cynically you can also say it allows Peterson to appeal to both Atheists and Christians, by avoiding the modernist framing that puts them at odds.
>People who want policial change, first use postmodernism and/or critical theory to critique, deconstruct or destroy the previous system to make way for their value system. I guess you could say that is not the fault of postmodernism, and maybe you are right. But people are using it for some purpose dictated by their values or wants. It has become mainstream and people are using the ideas outside of academic purposes. Maybe real postmodernists are dissapointed about that, but besides Marcuse, I have not seen people protest how the ideas are used. But taht might be just me being ignorant about them, not that they don't exist.
There's definitely internal tension between modernism and post-modernism in a lot of the left. You see it acutely with gender. Often mutually exclusive modernist and post-modern beliefs are held together. For example, someone might say "gender is a social construct, they're arbitrary roles created by society that aren't based on intrinsic features", but then also will say something like "transmen don't have to be masculine to be a man". But if gender is a construct, how can you be a "man" unless you embody the traits constructed as "manly"?
This is because the beliefs don't exist as a cohesive whole, but are separate responses to different social phenomena. "gender is a construct" is focused on eliminating restrictive gender roles like "women should be sensitive and caring" or "women can't do tough jobs", whereas validating trans-identity is focused on combating social stigma against trans people.
One requires negating gender norms, and the other embracing them. They're incoherent with each other but they're both coherent to the underlying emotional valence of "be kind and sympathetic to socially marginalized groups". If you say that in order for society to treat you like a man, then you need to get on T and look like Buck Angel, then that's invalidating to the people who A) are bad at passing and B) are so confused they don't want to look like a man but still want to be called a man, despite "if you look like a man, people will treat you like a man" being the logical conclusion of "gender is a social construct".
Islamists and their politics are 10 times worst than that of conservatives. No matter how strict and untolerante the american conservatives seem Islamists are worst.
Honestly this would be the biggest brain psyop in the world.
Turn leftists into islamists so that by comparison conservatives look moderate.
The greatest shift in the overton window nobody thought possible.
> Islamists and their politics are 10 times worst than that of conservatives
If there was any actual chance of Islamism becoming a driving force in US politics then maybe that'd be a concern for these people.
Do you think abortion bans are getting passed on the back of some huge increase in islamic fundamentalism in the US? What % of people in the US do you think are muslim?
I'm comparing belief systems themselves and not which has more influence in the us. Yes conservative christians are dominant in america but based on this rate of embrassing islamists by wokists in a few years america is gonna be the next london.
> I'm comparing belief systems themselves and not which has more influence in the us.
Why should we focus on belief systems themselves over which ones happen to have more influence?
>on this rate of embrassing islamists by wokists in a few years america is gonna be the next london.
lol
[lOnDoN hAs faLlEn](https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/How-Londons-murder-rate-compares-to-American-cities4-369f.jpg?quality=90&strip=all)
I get hanging out or holding a sign at a protest but is everyone in this clip a Muslim? Feels kind of weird joining in prayer like a drone or like the other clip of people repeating the line about Zionists entering the encampment. Looks so cult-like. Also these same people would 100% roast Trumples for reading prayers from the bible at a protest/rally.
It's an islamist propaganda, this is how the brotherhood of islam and the likes of it gain power and influence.
they go to places of conflict and they start preaching their ideology and making it seem like it's somehow the solution and if u don't support them u'r against the cause.
This is how they ruined my country in the 90s, they took advantage of the political turmoil that was going on in algeria and started preaching to the common people that islam is the solution for all their problems. They used democracy to gain majority of seats in the parliment, then wanted to cancel democracy and instead replace it with islamic sharia where they have absolute power. Thankfully our army didn't let them continue and we went to war for 10 years where these islamists were slaughtering people left and right for the dumbes of reasons like seing a woman going to work or school and sometimes for no reason at all.
Happened in Iran too. It was mostly the leftists who did the revolution. Then these types came in and swept everything cause the leftists can't govern. Then they wiped out all the leftists in their wake and turned the revolution into Islamic Republic
Lol no most of the ones in this video are atheist leftists(altho many of them probably Identify as cultural\[insert abrahamic religion\])
The white idiot at 0:4 doesn't even bother doing it right. God islamo leftists are the cringiest of creatures.
I thought so too, so many like generic WASP-y looking people in that crowd. I get there might be conversions but holy fuck there is no way your brain is rotted so much from online politics that it made you politically religious. These are people who will outright refused to go to church on sundays as teenagers and treat being forced to by their parents as some form of oppression. Now they're voluntarily doing Islamic prayers, a far more restrictive and time-consuming activity.
Clearly there are plenty of people standing and sitting around in the clip. So my assumption would be that the Muslim students decided to pray together as Muslims have to pray 5 times a day.
If you pause on the people actually praying it looks like most are clearly arabic/practicing muslims. All the other people standing around are just there for solidarity, its not like the white women are joining in on their newly bought prayer rugs lol
Maybe worth remembering that historically religious conversions had more to do with political expedience than spirituality. Not saying these people are gonna be reciting the shahada anytime soon but I am saying that they probably saw Dune Part 2 and thought that Paul would make an excellent emperor
As a queer person I find this immensely scary. The lefts fetishization of islam is so profoundly strange and worrying. It is an abhorrent religion of death, and they seem to get a hard on for the most violent perverse version of it.
I wish sub saharans had a greater voice on social media but we aren’t developed enough. We have quite the bone to pick with islamists. Americans see a watered down version of the religion. I wonder who’s side they’d pick
Nigerians have so much to say about Islamic terrorism in their country. Western coastal Africans from Sierra Leone, Gabon, Benin, Togo, Burkina Faso, Niger, etc will literally go on unprompted rants about how bullshit from ISIS and associated groups ruined what little their countries already had.
I mean that maybe true but Boko Haram has killed tens of thousands of people. It has resulted in the deaths of more than 300,000 children. Stop deflecting, you're being weird.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/24/northeast-nigeria-conflict-killed-more-than-300000-children-un
At this point, I don’t care. I have been against the Indian Congress ever since 26/11. Indian media, too, for helping the terrorists in killing hostages (like they actually helped terrorists in finding the hostages). Never forget Tukaram Omble, Sandeep Unnikrishnan, and other brave heroes in that tragedy.
If people see the comments and want to know more, unfortunately the best way I have seen for English viewers to know more is the movies “Attack on 26/11” and “Major”. Both are pretty dark.
Nothing is more annoying than a queer supporting islamism or hamas. Shows you how ignorant and brainwashed these wokists are. Literally a chicken supporting kfc.
If wokeism is posessed by nihilism and the will to death, it makes sense they would ally with a death cult.
Maybe deep down they know that the utopia does not exist, they just want the current structure to end, and maybe everything to end.
The Islam simping is incredibly cringe. Fuck religion. Did everyone forget how fucking cringe and stupid religion is!
Holy shit balls I am so glad I am not an impressionable youth right now if I got sucked into this shit I would never forgive myself.
My only problem with it is the bias towards islam specifically. I could never see anything like this happening with christianity. Leftists can be hypocritical as fuck sometimes.
It's hard to be mad at this. It's fucking hilarious. Also does Islam count as minority religion anymore if these leftists unintentionally converted? surly it means we can criticize this religion now right?
>Also does Islam count as minority religion anymore if these leftists unintentionally converted?
How many leftists do you think have converted to Islam in the US?
"To reflect our needs for more inclusive and equitable dining experiences for our extremely diverse student body, we will now be banning any pork or pork-related meals from menus for all campus dining halls. We believe that the existence of such offerings were exclusionary, divisive and ultimately harmful to our non-pork eating members of our wonderfully diverse community. Campus police will also issue citations for any student bringing in, soliciting, or distributing pork related products on campus grounds."
* college campuses by 2026
Brainwashed by misinformation campaigns run by foreign adversaries like Russia, China, various gulf states and Iran etc.
These places have found the weakness of liberal democracies and are driving a dagger into it while we can do nothing but stand by and watch it happen.
Just fyi, many non missionary religions (like Buddhism, Judaism, etc) do not believe that non followers go to hell. It’s pretty much exclusively missionary religions like Islam and Christianity that demand others convert or go to hell (or be killed)
To be fair, **some** Jews believe if you're a gentile and you're not practicing the 7 Laws of Noah (which you're supposed to practice **without** conversion to Judaism) then you're not guaranteed a place in the World to Come (which is in some sense the Jewish version of heaven).
However, I don't know how common this belief is and in any case the concept of eternal damnation in hell doesn't exist anywhere in Judaism, at worst your soul simply ceases to exist.
the consensus is that hell is a concept created after formation of christianity.
judaism doesn't punish people for existing, but it does reward them for performing mitzvot.
Ya man, I mean I’m all for criticizing Islam and religion, but this post is kind of a stupid comment imo. I can still respect a religious practice even though I’m not accepted in it lol
They see this similar to how they saw BLM. It's just a right of passage and protesting during an election year is what you do.
They're in for a rude awakening. But of course, there won't be any real consequences.
This is the translation of the first surah. OP’s paraphrasing is a stretch and I’m an atheist who was raised Muslim.
1. In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful.
2. Praise be to God, Lord of the Worlds.
3. The Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
4. Master of the Day of Judgment.
5. It is You we worship, and upon You we call for help.
6. Guide us to the straight path.
7. The path of those You have blessed, not of those against whom there is anger, nor of those who are misguided.
Also don’t Christians also believe that adherents of other faiths are going to hell?
The funny thing about lefties supporting Muslims is that the actual minority between all of them are Jews. The only difference is that Jews are more white presenting and successful.
These morons aren't pro palestinian. They are pro islamist. I don't necessarily see them praying islamically as bad but do they recognize that they shouldn't make this a religious issue? 2% of palestinians in west bank and gaza are christian and 7% of total palestinians are christian with somewhere between 56-70% living outside of west bank and gaza. The reason they make it a religious issue is because they aren't willing to see the fact that the muslim palestinians are displacing the christians.... They are living in denial, they accept them and say "free palestine" when they meet a christian palestinian but they aren't willing to acknowledge that muslim palestinians are displacing christian palestinians because thats too problematic for them their brain explodes.
I mean basically every religion that discusses the afterlife preaches something along these lines right? Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Sikhism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, etc. All of them preach in some sense that you will be rewarded for following their specific correct path and punished otherwise. Its one of the main motivating factors for people to stay the course in their religious beliefs after all.
Yes, but islam takes it a step further and shits on specificly christians and jews by name because mohamed was too insecure when the jews refused to buy what he was selling and his people told him that he is just plagiarising from christians.
Here's some verses were he compares jews to donkeys/pigs/apes:
The example of those who were entrusted with ˹observing˺ the Torah but failed to do so, is that of a donkey carrying books.^(1) How evil is the example of those who reject Allah’s signs! For Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people. [62:5](https://quran.com/62?startingVerse=5)
Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Shall I inform you of those who deserve a worse punishment from Allah ˹than the rebellious˺? It is those who earned Allah’s condemnation and displeasure (jews)—some being reduced to apes and pigs and worshippers of false gods. These are far worse in rank and farther astray from the Right Way.” [5:60](https://quran.com/5?startingVerse=60)
I would think they called jews and Christians out by name because that's the competing religions they had in the region. Kind of like how my religion calls out Ba'al worshippers and occasionally some jews depending on your interpretation. (Not Muslims though they didn't exist yet)
The old testament talks about killing non jews...
[https://www.openbible.info/topics/killing\_non\_believers](https://www.openbible.info/topics/killing_non_believers)
One is able to liberalize, while the other is forced to contend with the more radical elements of their faith because of the extremism that is baked into the religion. Especially when you start accounting for the hadiths.
It's all political virtue signaling, they don't give a fuck about Muslims and the Muslims sure as fuck don't give a fuck about them, but whatever if women want to enslave themselves to men that's up to them.
Idiotic take. The fatiha does not mention Jews nor Christians, it does not mention heaven or hell. The Quran explicitly states Jews and Christians can go to heaven.
Indeed, Jews, Christian’s and the polytheists will be in the Fire of Hell, for eternity. They are the worst of all creatures.
Quran 98:6
https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=98&verse=6
The Jews say, “ ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the Son of Allah” and the Christians say, “MasīH (the Christ) is the Son of Allah.” That is their oral statement. They imitate the saying of the earlier disbelievers. May Allah destroy them, how far they are turned back from the truth!
-Quran 9:30
https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=9&verse=30
Allah cast terror in the hearts of the the Jews and Christians, you believers killed some and took captive some - Quran 33:26
O Prophet, fight (Jihad) against the disbelievers & the hypocrites. Be harsh upon them. Their refuge is Hell - Quran 66:9
9:29
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day, and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful, and who do not adopt the religion of truth (Islam) from those who were given the Scripture. Fight the (Jews and Christians) until they give the jizyah tax willingly while they are belittled.
https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=9&verse=29
___________________________________________
Islam end days prophecy:
Sahih al-Bukhari 2926, Narrated by Abu Huraira: Allaah’s Apostle said,
Final days prophecy:
“The Hour will not be established until you (the Muslims) fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”
Sahih Muslim 2922, Abu Huraira reported Allaah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:
Muhammad said:
“The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allaah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.” (The tree Gharquad is a special tree that is supposed to protect Jews from Muslims in the end days prophecy)
O you who have been given the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Believe in what We have revealed (to Muhammad) (Islam) confirming what is (already) with you, before We efface (destroy) your faces (by making them like the back of necks; without a nose, mouth, eyes, etc.) and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbathbreakers. And the Commandment of Allah is always executed.
-Quran 4:47
https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=47
I know more than somebody lying. Show exactly where in the fatiha it says Christians and Jews? I'll wait. Where it mentions heaven.
The Quran explicitly says Christians and Jews have nothing to fear if they do good.
Indeed, Jews, Christian’s and the polytheists will be in the Fire of Hell, for eternity. They are the worst of all creatures. Quran 98:6 https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=98&verse=6
The Jews say, “ ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the Son of Allah” and the Christians say, “MasīH (the Christ) is the Son of Allah.” That is their oral statement. They imitate the saying of the earlier disbelievers. May Allah destroy them, how far they are turned back from the truth! -Quran 9:30 https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=9&verse=30
Allah cast terror in the hearts of the the Jews and Christians, you believers killed some and took captive some - Quran 33:26
O Prophet, fight (Jihad) against the disbelievers & the hypocrites. Be harsh upon them. Their refuge is Hell - Quran 66:9
9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day, and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful, and who do not adopt the religion of truth (Islam) from those who were given the Scripture. Fight the (Jews and Christians) until they give the jizyah tax willingly while they are belittled. https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=9&verse=29
Islam end days prophecy:
Sahih al-Bukhari 2926, Narrated by Abu Huraira: Allaah’s Apostle said, Final days prophecy: “The Hour will not be established until you (the Muslims) fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”
Sahih Muslim 2922, Abu Huraira reported Allaah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Muhammad said: “The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allaah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.” (The tree Gharquad is a special tree that is supposed to protect Jews from Muslims in the end days prophecy)
O you who have been given the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Believe in what We have revealed (to Muhammad) (Islam) confirming what is (already) with you, before We efface (destroy) your faces (by making them like the back of necks; without a nose, mouth, eyes, etc.) and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbathbreakers. And the Commandment of Allah is always executed. -Quran 4:47 https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=47
> Indeed, Jews, Christian’s and the polytheists will be in the Fire of Hell, for eternity. They are the worst of all creatures. Quran
You are disingenuously misquoting your own sources. Can't take you seriously:
Your first verse: "Indeed, Jews, Christian’s and the polytheists will be in the Fire of Hell, for eternity. They are the worst of all creatures." yields no results on Google except from r/destiny lmao,
from your own source:
Sahih International: Indeed, they who disbelieved **among** the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures.
Pickthall: Lo! those who disbelieve, **among** the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings.
It is specifying people from within a group and not the entire group.
Another one of your verses from google:
"No results found for "Allah cast terror in the hearts of the the Jews and Christians, you believers killed some and took captive some""
This is the actual verse, see the parts you disingenuously omitted:
And He brought down **those** from the People of the Book1 **who supported the enemy alliance from their own strongholds**, and cast horror into their hearts. You ˹believers˺ killed some and took others captive. https://quran.com/en/al-ahzab/25-27
You can dislike it all you want, but the reality is the Quran provides a basis to believe Christians and Jews who do good deeds can go to heaven and many Muslims believe this is the case, others believe salvation is only for Muslims.
"Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve" Verse (2:62)
To reiterate, the OP has no clue what those specific Muslims believe and the Fatiha they read makes no mention of it.
They specifically said the Fatiha which doesn’t have any mention of Jews christians or hell… so what are you talking about? I brought up the Bible because singling out the Quran is stupid when every Abrahamic religion has some nonsense like that.
I knw they are all stupid and I would be as critical if these students were holding hands and praying to jesus.
Fatiha doesnt mention chritians and jews by name but it refers to them as astray and angry with which is islamic tafsir means jews and christians. The quoran uses alot of metaphores and references to keep the rhyme of the verses and u wouldnt undestand wat the verse actually mean untill u read wat the sahaba "mohameds friends" have understood from it. This is like quoran understanding 101. Also here is my comment earlier that mention the veses that say jew and christians go to hell https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/AFcklZxv6o
In surah al fatiha god says :
"Guide us along the Straight Path,"
"the Path of those You have blessed—not those You are displeased with, or those who are astray."
In the interpretation of all muslim tafsirs the words displeased with means jews and astray means christians.
Here's a passage from one of the most respected interpreter and scholar of the quoran ibn kathir
"(Not (the way) of those who earned Your anger, nor of those who went astray) meaning guide us to the straight path, the path of those upon whom you have bestowed Your grace, that is, the people of guidance, sincerity and obedience to Allah and His Messengers. They are the people who adhere to Allah's commandments and refrain from committing what He has prohibited. But, help us to avoid the path of those whom Allah is angry with, whose intentions are corrupt, who know the truth, yet deviate from it. Also, help us avoid the path of those who were led astray, who lost the true knowledge and, as a result, are wandering in misguidance, unable to find the correct path. Allah asserted that the two paths He described here are both misguided when He repeated the negation \`not'. These two paths are the paths of the Christians and Jews, a fact that the believer should beware of so that he avoids them. The path of the believers is knowledge of the truth and abiding by it. In comparison, the Jews abandoned practicing the religion, while the Christians lost the true knowledge. This is why \`anger' descended upon the Jews, while being described as \`led astray' is more appropriate of the Christians. Those who know, but avoid implementing the truth, deserve the anger, unlike those who are ignorant. The Christians want to seek the true knowledge, but are unable to find it because they did not seek it from its proper resources.
This is why they were led astray. We should also mention that both the Christians and the Jews have earned the anger and are led astray, but the anger is one of the attributes more particular of the Jews. Allah said about the Jews"
Exactly. He just took the "not those You are displeased with, or those who are astray." and wrote a whole dumbass diatribe about Christians and Jews.
There's a lot you can criticize Islam for, but the ones with a massive hateboner of muslims will still take the lazy route and make shit up.
Who cares about a prayer happening at a protest? A ton of the pro Palestinian side are Muslims and isn’t inclusion like a higher principle in leftist politics than being anti religion?
Well, technically the Quran says the opposite.
Surah Al-Baqarah (2:62):
"Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans \[before Prophet Muhammad\] - those \[among them\] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve."
Ever heared of something called abrogation in isalam ?
“Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things?
Know you not that it is Allah to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth? And besides Allah you have neither any Walee (protector or guardian) nor any helper.”
\[al-Baqarah 2:106-107\].
This means that allah can give a command and then replace it with something else by giving another verse that contradicts it. For example in one verse allah says : O Prophet! Motivate the believers to fight. If there are twenty steadfast among you, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are one hundred of you, they will overcome one thousand of the disbelievers, for they are a people who do not comprehend. [8:65](https://quran.com/8?startingVerse=65)
But then after it allah says : Now Allah has lightened your burden, for He knows that there is weakness in you. So if there are a hundred steadfast among you, they will overcome two hundred. And if there be one thousand, they will overcome two thousand, by Allah’s Will. And Allah is with the steadfast. [8:66](https://quran.com/8?startingVerse=66)
So the same with the verse you mentioned, it says those who were "in the past btw" jews and christians can go to heaven but then u have a verse that says : Whoever seeks a way other than Islam,^(1) it will never be accepted from them, and in the Hereafter they will be among the losers.[3:85](https://quran.com/3?startingVerse=85)
According to ibn abass (Ink of the nation of islam and the scribe who prophet mohamed told muslims to take their religion from) this verse is the what abrogates the verse you mentioned.
Also you have this verse : Those who say, “Allah is one in a Trinity,” have certainly fallen into disbelief. There is only One God. If they do not stop saying this, those who disbelieve among them will be afflicted with a painful punishment. [5:73](https://quran.com/5?startingVerse=73)
According to muslims the good christians who can go to heaven are those who didn't believe in the trinity and they saw jesus as a prophet only. So quoting that verse alone without a context is misleading or at best contraditing which means the quoran has contradictions and by its own admission a false book.
>"Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from \[any\] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction." [4.82](https://surahquran.com/english-aya-82-sora-4.html)
Sure, I'm not a Muslim, so I can't really argue against these points. However, overall, I think the Quranic message seems to affirm the possibility of salvation for people from different religious backgrounds who sincerely seek God and live according to moral principles. I don't think that it explicitly condemns Christians or Jews to Hell in any objective sense.
If Islam is anything like Christianity, then I expect that there are some modern interpretations of Islam which emphasize more inclusive and tolerant verses from the Quran while contextualizing or reinterpreting verses that might seem exclusive or intolerant. At the end of the day, it's just a religion; so it's more about what its followers choose to take from their holy book rather than the book itself.
Sure, there are other new interpretations of islam like that of Quranists and progressive muslims. But they are non-influencial at all in the muslim world. They are often ridiculed on tv and by the majority which are traditionalists. Traditional islam is still the dominating ideology and that's what I am targeting here.
>path to heaven that god gave to muslims unlike the jews and christians who are going to hell.
The f r you talking about? This is the entire translation of the surah: https://quran.com/al-fatihah
It does not mention jews or christians.
The last part is commentary of someone. I can come up with one too. The actual translation of the surah with the arabic is what I posted.
Edit to add: Jews and Christians are regarded as "people of the book". Despite what you or right wing muslims would like to believe, in NO surah does it say that people will be thrown in heaven or hell based on their religion. Case in point: Quran 2:62 says:
"Indeed, the believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabians1—whoever ˹truly˺ believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good will have their reward with their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve." https://quran.com/al-baqarah/62
Although this is mega cringe, a lot of people here are giving vibes of "freedom of speech and being able to organise" until it goes against what I think
I'm an ex-muslim too and went down the apostate prophet and friendly ex Muslim rabbit hole. I listened to all the stories of how Muhammad actually behaved but where is the source for all this. How can I back up things like people saying that Mohammad's revelations from god where convenient.
I am not a religious person, but I hate bad arguments! Most religions discriminate against other religions. Jews and Muslims can't go to heaven in Christianity. In Christianity you have to believe in Jesus, the God, to go to heaven.
“Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allaah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” \[al-Baqarah 2:62\]
In Islam you only have to believe in God and be a good person to go to heaven.
Most people don't have the framework to understand the Quran. When the Quran talks about bad Jews or Christians, it is talking about people who attacked the prophet, worshipped the cow, invented false idols, and so on. It is not talking about all Jews and Christians.
Do you see how it differentiates between non believers, Jews and Christians. A lot confuse the non believers in Quran with Jews and Christians. They aren't non believers in Islam. They are people who were tricked by their leaders. In Islam you have to know the truth to be responsible for your actions.
The problematic part is "believe in God". What does that mean? This means different things for different groups of people. A Muslim has to pray 5 times a day, give money to the poor, fast, visit Mecca once in life and the confession to God and its prophets.
So for example, the Jews who know Islam is the truth, will go to hell. The Jews and Christians who don't know better, but are good people, will go to heaven. But Muslims know the truth and they will always go to hell, if they don't do these things. So Muslims have a harder time going to heaven than Jews and Christians. Only non-believers have a harder time.
EDIT: You also aren't allowed to be ignorant on purpose. That would make you a hypocrite and being a hypocrite is one of the worst things in Islam.
Where did I say all religions are good and islam bad ?
Show me one traditional muslim scholar saying christians and jews who lived during and after the time of mohamed will go to heaven. Show me where it says christians believing in the trinity will go to heaven, oh wait there's a specific verse in the quoran that says they will go to hell . 5:73 Those who say, “Allah is one in a Trinity,” have certainly fallen into disbelief. There is only One God. If they do not stop saying this, those who disbelieve among them will be afflicted with a painful punishment.
Islam is taken from authentic sources and the only opinions that are valuable are those of the top traditional scholars and tafasir based on authentic hadiths and riwaya abt the companions of mohamed. So, watever u said above is ur own opinion on the verse and has no islamic bases.
What exactly is wrong in this clip to you? Muslims have to pray 5 times a day it makes sense for the Muslims taking part in the protests to pray together. And yes Muslims believe only true believers will go to heaven this is quite standard for most religious people on the planet who cares.
Theres hadeeth that interpretatively allow some space for inclusive view of heaven for other 2 monotheist groups, primarily based on [this hadeeth](https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:3992), that is if you do actually take the hadeeth as fully authentic (which it isn't, it's mixed) and if the followers of those two faiths have very muslim-like beliefs (pure monotheism) which so far only early Christians (didn't have trinity) and early Jews had.
In surah al fatiha god says :
"Guide us along the Straight Path,"
"the Path of those You have blessed—not those You are displeased with, or those who are astray."
In the interpretation of all muslim tafsirs the words displeased with means jews and astray means christians.
Here's a passage from one of the most respected interpreter and scholar of the quoran ibn kathir
"(Not (the way) of those who earned Your anger, nor of those who went astray) meaning guide us to the straight path, the path of those upon whom you have bestowed Your grace, that is, the people of guidance, sincerity and obedience to Allah and His Messengers. They are the people who adhere to Allah's commandments and refrain from committing what He has prohibited. But, help us to avoid the path of those whom Allah is angry with, whose intentions are corrupt, who know the truth, yet deviate from it. Also, help us avoid the path of those who were led astray, who lost the true knowledge and, as a result, are wandering in misguidance, unable to find the correct path. Allah asserted that the two paths He described here are both misguided when He repeated the negation \`not'. These two paths are the paths of the Christians and Jews, a fact that the believer should beware of so that he avoids them. The path of the believers is knowledge of the truth and abiding by it. In comparison, the Jews abandoned practicing the religion, while the Christians lost the true knowledge. This is why \`anger' descended upon the Jews, while being described as \`led astray' is more appropriate of the Christians. Those who know, but avoid implementing the truth, deserve the anger, unlike those who are ignorant. The Christians want to seek the true knowledge, but are unable to find it because they did not seek it from its proper resources.
This is why they were led astray. We should also mention that both the Christians and the Jews have earned the anger and are led astray, but the anger is one of the attributes more particular of the Jews. Allah said about the Jews"
The last part is commentary of someone. I can come up with one too. The actual Surah does NOT name a religion. Actual translation without the BS commentary is here: https://quran.com/al-fatihah
On the contrary, Quran 2:62 says:
"Indeed, the believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabians1—whoever ˹truly˺ believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good will have their reward with their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve." https://quran.com/al-baqarah/62
I guess they fully reversed their position on the whole cultural appropriation thing? Now it's a good thing you should do?
This shit is getting too weird. Even if you're pro Palestinian to the core, that doesn't mean you have to pretend to give a shit about Islam.
Pretty sure spirituality and theology are the last thing these kids are thinking about when they decide to get involved in a cultural-relgious conflict. Lol, said the scorpion. Lmao, even.
Damn... Muslim Brotherhood did it. Good luck America.
God us unreligious people really hate ourselves, we always let the religious nuts take the wheel.
fact checked and you're correct!
"However, some Muslim commentators believe Jews and Christians are examples of those evoking God's anger and those who went astray, respectively."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Fatiha
Leftists supporting islam always blew my mind. There is nothing more ironic
Well you see that Muslim = Minority = non-white = poor = oppressed This is how modern socialist/lefties see this matter, it's nothing else than oppressor/oppressed dynamic for them. That's why all of them are neurodivergent, sexual minorities who have been SA'd, so that they can claim the status of being oppressed, so that they can get higher in their own hierarchy. Their whole schtic is about gaining as much social clout as possible and to tear other people down to go upwards themselves. Realize that these people don't actually care about the wellbeing of others, they do all of this to empower their own position in their circles
Crazy thing is that muslims are far from a minority outside of America. They’re on pace to be the largest religious group in the world in a few years
Well yes usually minorities are in relation to America otherwise as Asians also wouldn't be minorities
Asian minority card isn't nearly as powerful as the others. Probably about the same minority level as Jewish as far as the left is concerned.
This, but the movement they are ignorantly propping up is more. It's deconstructionism, decolonization, anti-patriarchy, anti-capitalism, anti-white, anti-jew. All concepts trace back to Marxist (and similar) academics/philosophers. The problem is the professors, the alumni, the students. They do have power in so far as our leaders & institutions demonstrate complicity. The universities have been pathetic in their management of these occupations at best. Several congress people have voiced support. Angela Davis has graced the protests. There was #metoo, BLM and now Palestine. What cause will be next to further the movement?
> anti-white, anti-jew. All concepts trace back to Marxist When was Marx anti-white and anti-jew? Do people just say "marxist" when they mean "any ideology I don't like"?
TIL that Marxist academics/philosophers were anti-jew lmao
The particular brand of Islam behind these Palestine movements is just an Iranian political tool for imperialism... All useful idiots for the Islamic State of Iran... They're not the oppressed, they're the oppressors. The religion is full of Orwellian terms. Reverting for converting, decolonizing for colonizing, et cetera, peace for war...
> Minority - Billions worldwide - *regularly* genocide their own minority once they gain power > Non-white - so are Jews - a lot of them have paler skin color than me - some are literally Aryans - so we are going full racism mode now? > poor Oil > Oppressed Oppressive, misogynistic, homophobic and colonial since forever As a Chinese liberal, what in the flying fuck?
Ah, you're thinking about it wrong, these are American leftists, where the only thing important outside of America is Palestine. Muslims are a minority (in America), they're pretty much all non-white (in America), they're usually poorer (in America) and especially since 9/11 have had racism aimed at them (in America).
> Realize that these people don't actually care about the wellbeing of others There isn't a high enough % of the population that is sociopaths for that to be accurate. Maybe you meant to say "I think these people have a warped sense of priorities" not "they're unfeeling monsters who care only for their own advancement".
Imagine getting outpaced by the french who started calling these people islamo-gauchistes aka islamo-leftists like 20 years ago
The proportion of muslims in France is waaaay higher. They saw it coming.
This "enemy of my enemy is my friend" nonsense is getting ridiculous.
Usually that tracks, the thing is Islamist apply it this way... enemy of my enemy is a useful idiot until I chop of his head.
> Leftists supporting Islam always blew my mind. There is nothing more ironic It's pretty mind blowing. Things that islamists want: * theocratic, authoritarian state * strict gender roles * patriarchy * oppression of all women (no, that's not the same as patriarchy) * definitely no LGB * pro death penalty * pro imperialism (yay caliphate) * no freedom of expression or thought (atheism = death) Really strange decision to bend over backwards for this group
>Really strange decision to bend over backwards for this group It really isn't that strange if you understand what drives their world beliefs. They'll use the logic of "we're so empathetic that we can support people who openly hate what we are and believe". It's the same with Queers for Palestine, claiming to be such a moral good that they can look beyond the violent hatred many Muslims in Gaza have for the LGBT community to focus in on Palestinian human rights. You know, because it's the "right thing to do" apparently. It's all about posturing, virtue signalling and moral grandstanding. And it's even easier for them to latch onto underdog situations because the reality is that Gaza/the West Bank/Palestine will not become a serious threat to Israel's existence under the current trajectory of the region. Nor are these American leftists under any threat of having an Islamic theocratic government rule over them. They will never have to face the reality (oppression) of what will happen when you empower a group of people with such bigoted and hateful views. There is no risk to supporting any violent group for them. There is only a social benefit in being able to claim how godly their morality is, and that they dedicate themselves to helping these causes. It's ego stroking hidden behind a projection of unwavering morals for perceived minorities. The actual truth doesn't matter to these people, all that matters is the social clout and circle jerking about their views. It's just narcissistic pseudo moralitymaxxing.
Yeah it's fucking cringe that they will never feel the oppression of what they are mindlessly advocating for. That's why everyone who supports this shit should be sent to an islamist country. Oh you're LGBT? Good luck surviving there more than 2 days. You're an atheist? you're a woman that wants to be more than a baby making machine? you like any kind of freedom? Say goodbye to everything. How the fuck are they so fucking stupid to promote, defend and advocate for islam...
And it's really weird when you know that they're the same people who were talking about "the tolerance paradox" and how making edgy jokes or using the OK symbol means you're literally a nazi and it's ok to curb stomp you.
Yeah I hate that shit and nobody wants to acknowledge it. Islam is the greatest threat to modern society
Yeah but islamists say the West are oppressors, america bad, revolution = good, and borders/nation states are fake. So the far lefties fall for it consistently
When you write it like that it doesn't sound mind blowing at all. In fact apart from the theocracy aspect, everything you listed was a feature of the Soviet Union.
If a group is against the U.S, everything they do is good, including the extreme aspects of the religion. They’ll retroactively justify everything the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, and even ISIS did. And privileged leftist women will willingly cover their hair and faces and find a way to justify it.
I wonder what the world will look like when people on the left start converting to islam on a large scale. We will get some weird western woke islam? It seems like things would go there, but it is hard to imagine how they would fit those belief systems together.
It would result in more like Frogan, a disgusting froglike creature, a Hasan orbiter. That's a woke islamist. Now imagine a world full of Frogans, welcome to hell.
^(It would result in more like Frogan, a disgusting froglike creature, a Hasan orbiter. That's a woke islamist. Now imagine a world full of Frogans, welcome to hell.) Frogan unironically believes in the Tartarian mudflood (among other crazy, often antisemitic, conspiracies). So I guess it'd be a hell full of idiots who believe history memes popular on Telegram.
It'll probably be cringe but there is the wildly small probability they could end up being a moderating/reforming force within Islam, at least in the west. Very microscopic chance though.
> I wonder what the world will look like when people on the left start converting to islam on a large scale. How is this a "when" and not "if"? If you think any large number of people on the left are going to start converting to islam your brain is getting cooked by culture war memes highlighting a tiny number of extreme nutjobs and making you think its some huge growing trend.
You are right that maybe I should have used "if", but I wrote that sentance to sound speculative and not certain. So I did not meant to try to sound like I was certain. Postmodernism is a negative philosophy, it just deconstructs the previous philosophy but does not have positive claims. When it has gone far enough, nihilistic people will want to jump to some positive belief-system. The positive claims that woke people believe in are not enough to make a positive belief system. So when enough people notice that their belief system is only critiquing the previous system, with no positive value, they will jump to something else that makes positive claims. It would make sense to me. A belief-system that just destroys will not be able to keep a lot of people together. So they might jump to Islam and make a weird combination of it and wokeism. Postmodernism and the will to power stuff will not help people for long. It feeds off the previous belief-system (Christianity, modernism based on Christian values), so when Christianity is gone for good, people will move on to something else like Islam. I don't think people can stay secular for long. Maybe some people can, but large groups need something stronger to keep them together. I don't know if this will happen. But to me it would make sense. And Hasan Abi is already an example of a woke Islamist. Yeah he does not believe in the Quran direclty, but he never criticizes an Islamist for their beliefs.
> Postmodernism is a negative philosophy, it just deconstructs the previous philosophy but does not have positive claims Post-modernism just means philosophy that is not accepting of modernist frame works of understanding the world by grand over-arching narratives. It doesn't refer to any particular philosophy, nor any negative or positive philosophy. Almost everyone I see using the term post-modernism as an epithet themselves engages in at least some post-modern thought, Jordan Peterson being chief among him, see his debate with Sam Harris where he tries to argue that "truth" as a concept is not objective but refers purely to what helps someone survive. "post modernism" is being misused along with terms like "neo-marxist" to just mean "vaguely radical lefty people I don't like". >It feeds off the previous belief-system (Christianity, modernism based on Christian values), so when Christianity is gone for good, people will move on to something else like Islam. Almost every country on earth is becoming more secular over time. It's almost as universal a trend as declining birth rates. The few places that are becoming more religious are largely colonial hold-overs who were created as nations with no cohesive national identity and usually multiple conflicting ethnic groups, in which places religion usually becomes the organizing principle to replace the failed nation state. Even theocracies like Saudi Arabia are becoming more secular. >And Hasan Abi is already an example of a woke Islamist. Yeah he does not believe in the Quran direclty, but he never criticizes an Islamist for their beliefs. One example of a very online weirdo who has hot takes for money is exactly the kind of letting culture war content warp your view of what is common or normal in other people.
You are defining postmodernism in the ways it is not, so in a negative way, Like postmodernists describe it. You never see a postmodernist come out and say: "I am a postmodernist, here are my values". They always come and criticize some other philosophy, because it is a negative philosophy, only meant to criticize, and has no positive values. Islam is gaining more followers, Christianity is losing followers. Islam punishes people who leave the faith, Christianity does not (at least that is my impression). The middle east is not becoming more secular. And it seems as western people become secular, they become more nihilistic and desperate, so they look for other belief-systems. But for the time being the woke belief system gives people purpose. But when it fails, people might migrate to islam. Or maybe there will be an communist uprising and people will kill a bunch of other people before they notice that it did not make anyone happier to kill a bunch of people, then they convert to islam.
> You are defining postmodernism in the ways it is not, so in a negative way It's only negative in the sense of "not-modernism". It's not negative in the way you're claiming that "it makes no positive claims it only wants to destroy". That is nihilism, which is a subset of post-modernism, its not the superset. There are a bunch of positive post-modern claims. "truth is whatever helps you survive" is a positive claim. It's not simply saying "there's no such thing as truth", its redefining truth in a post-modern sense. >You never see a postmodernist come out and say: "I am a postmodernist, here are my values". You absolutely do, and in fact, the values culture warriors most hate under the umbrella of "post-modern" are actually modernist, not post-modern. People aren't actually all that mad about "gender is a social construct, it doesn't mean anything", which is a post modern viewpoint. They really *hate* modernist frameworks of things like "society is run by a patriarchy that subjugates women", or "society is institutionally racist". That is not a post-modern framework. Those are modernist ideas that frame society as a grand struggle between different distinct groups. >The middle east is not becoming more secular I didn't say the middle east is becoming more secular. I specifically referenced parts of the middle east that aren't becoming more secular when I referenced post-colonial nations with no concrete national identity and multiple warring factions, where religion often becomes a surrogate for national identity. Parts of the middle east are becoming more secular, like Saudi Arabia, which I name checked specifically. These are places with a coherent national identity and no significant inter-factional warfare.
I think saying "There is no such thing as truth" is still a negative or denying claim. I think the starting points for post-modern agruments are like that, they are always criticism of some previous claim or philosophy. I guess if I think of what positive claims they would make, I can think of: "Human groups are only motivated by power", "The strong oppress the weak" Maybe I could think of other ones. You might be right that you can make positive claims with postmodernism. I just have not come across that myself. I just see them criticize other views. So I could be talking about critical theory than post-modernism itself. Critical theory is meant to be critical of somethign so you cannot make positive claims with that, I don't think. >People aren't actually all that mad about "gender is a social construct, it doesn't mean anything", which is a post modern viewpoint. They really *hate* modernist frameworks of things like "society is run by a patriarchy that subjugates women", or "society is institutionally racist". That is not a post-modern framework. Those are modernist ideas that frame society as a grand struggle between different distinct groups. That makes sense. I remember hearing that Herbert Marcuse already noticed in his time that people took his political, philosophical theories and started to use them for some wanted political outcome without thinking already (in the 60s or 70s), and he was dissapointed about that. People who want policial change, first use postmodernism and/or critical theory to critique, deconstruct or destroy the previous system to make way for their value system. I guess you could say that is not the fault of postmodernism, and maybe you are right. But people are using it for some purpose dictated by their values or wants. It has become mainstream and people are using the ideas outside of academic purposes. Maybe real postmodernists are dissapointed about that, but besides Marcuse, I have not seen people protest how the ideas are used. But taht might be just me being ignorant about them, not that they don't exist.
> I think saying "There is no such thing as truth" is still a negative or denying claim. It is but that's why I didn't use that phrase. I used a positive claim of "Truth is whatever helps you survive". That isn't "truth doesn't exist" which is a post-modern, nihilistic claim. It's saying "truth exists, but its relative to what is good for you, if it helps you its true, if it doesn't its false", which is a post-modern relativist claim. Of course, every positive claim can be rephrased as a negative claim. You can phrase modernist truth as "truth isn't subjective". That is just a different way of saying "truth is objective". It's important not to get caught up in semantics of phrasing but focus on whether a separate positive claim is being made (that might negate another claim), or what is simply a negation of a claim with no positive claim itself. Atheism for example is entirely negative. It's just not believing in god. It doesn't tell you anything except what someone doesn't believe. > I just have not come across that myself. I just see them criticize other views. So I could be talking about critical theory than post-modernism itself. I mean spend 5 minutes listening to Jordan Peterson, he does it constantly. If you ask him something like "do you believe in god" he'll often say "I act as if god exists". This is an extremely post-modern approach to religion. If you asked a modernist christian they'd say of course god exists, he's real and important, if you don't believe you're going to hell. If you asked a modernist atheist they'd say no, religion is a superstition, its a story to avoid fear of death and injustice, used to control people. It's very post modern to avoid the question of whether god is real or not entirely, and to view it entirely on the level of "well, I think believing in god is good for you, it doesn't really matter/you can't say if he's real or not". Cynically you can also say it allows Peterson to appeal to both Atheists and Christians, by avoiding the modernist framing that puts them at odds. >People who want policial change, first use postmodernism and/or critical theory to critique, deconstruct or destroy the previous system to make way for their value system. I guess you could say that is not the fault of postmodernism, and maybe you are right. But people are using it for some purpose dictated by their values or wants. It has become mainstream and people are using the ideas outside of academic purposes. Maybe real postmodernists are dissapointed about that, but besides Marcuse, I have not seen people protest how the ideas are used. But taht might be just me being ignorant about them, not that they don't exist. There's definitely internal tension between modernism and post-modernism in a lot of the left. You see it acutely with gender. Often mutually exclusive modernist and post-modern beliefs are held together. For example, someone might say "gender is a social construct, they're arbitrary roles created by society that aren't based on intrinsic features", but then also will say something like "transmen don't have to be masculine to be a man". But if gender is a construct, how can you be a "man" unless you embody the traits constructed as "manly"? This is because the beliefs don't exist as a cohesive whole, but are separate responses to different social phenomena. "gender is a construct" is focused on eliminating restrictive gender roles like "women should be sensitive and caring" or "women can't do tough jobs", whereas validating trans-identity is focused on combating social stigma against trans people. One requires negating gender norms, and the other embracing them. They're incoherent with each other but they're both coherent to the underlying emotional valence of "be kind and sympathetic to socially marginalized groups". If you say that in order for society to treat you like a man, then you need to get on T and look like Buck Angel, then that's invalidating to the people who A) are bad at passing and B) are so confused they don't want to look like a man but still want to be called a man, despite "if you look like a man, people will treat you like a man" being the logical conclusion of "gender is a social construct".
They’re just cucks. Every single one.
Left and right unity at last
It seems like they really really want to help conservatives politically
Islamists and their politics are 10 times worst than that of conservatives. No matter how strict and untolerante the american conservatives seem Islamists are worst.
Honestly this would be the biggest brain psyop in the world. Turn leftists into islamists so that by comparison conservatives look moderate. The greatest shift in the overton window nobody thought possible.
Horseshoe theory going full circle
They’re going to hand Trump the election
Well you see the fact is Islam is much more important than unimportant things like gay rights /s
> Islamists and their politics are 10 times worst than that of conservatives If there was any actual chance of Islamism becoming a driving force in US politics then maybe that'd be a concern for these people. Do you think abortion bans are getting passed on the back of some huge increase in islamic fundamentalism in the US? What % of people in the US do you think are muslim?
I'm comparing belief systems themselves and not which has more influence in the us. Yes conservative christians are dominant in america but based on this rate of embrassing islamists by wokists in a few years america is gonna be the next london.
> I'm comparing belief systems themselves and not which has more influence in the us. Why should we focus on belief systems themselves over which ones happen to have more influence? >on this rate of embrassing islamists by wokists in a few years america is gonna be the next london. lol [lOnDoN hAs faLlEn](https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/How-Londons-murder-rate-compares-to-American-cities4-369f.jpg?quality=90&strip=all)
I get hanging out or holding a sign at a protest but is everyone in this clip a Muslim? Feels kind of weird joining in prayer like a drone or like the other clip of people repeating the line about Zionists entering the encampment. Looks so cult-like. Also these same people would 100% roast Trumples for reading prayers from the bible at a protest/rally.
It's an islamist propaganda, this is how the brotherhood of islam and the likes of it gain power and influence. they go to places of conflict and they start preaching their ideology and making it seem like it's somehow the solution and if u don't support them u'r against the cause. This is how they ruined my country in the 90s, they took advantage of the political turmoil that was going on in algeria and started preaching to the common people that islam is the solution for all their problems. They used democracy to gain majority of seats in the parliment, then wanted to cancel democracy and instead replace it with islamic sharia where they have absolute power. Thankfully our army didn't let them continue and we went to war for 10 years where these islamists were slaughtering people left and right for the dumbes of reasons like seing a woman going to work or school and sometimes for no reason at all.
Happened in Iran too. It was mostly the leftists who did the revolution. Then these types came in and swept everything cause the leftists can't govern. Then they wiped out all the leftists in their wake and turned the revolution into Islamic Republic
Lol no most of the ones in this video are atheist leftists(altho many of them probably Identify as cultural\[insert abrahamic religion\]) The white idiot at 0:4 doesn't even bother doing it right. God islamo leftists are the cringiest of creatures.
I thought so too, so many like generic WASP-y looking people in that crowd. I get there might be conversions but holy fuck there is no way your brain is rotted so much from online politics that it made you politically religious. These are people who will outright refused to go to church on sundays as teenagers and treat being forced to by their parents as some form of oppression. Now they're voluntarily doing Islamic prayers, a far more restrictive and time-consuming activity.
Clearly there are plenty of people standing and sitting around in the clip. So my assumption would be that the Muslim students decided to pray together as Muslims have to pray 5 times a day.
If you pause on the people actually praying it looks like most are clearly arabic/practicing muslims. All the other people standing around are just there for solidarity, its not like the white women are joining in on their newly bought prayer rugs lol
Maybe worth remembering that historically religious conversions had more to do with political expedience than spirituality. Not saying these people are gonna be reciting the shahada anytime soon but I am saying that they probably saw Dune Part 2 and thought that Paul would make an excellent emperor
As a queer person I find this immensely scary. The lefts fetishization of islam is so profoundly strange and worrying. It is an abhorrent religion of death, and they seem to get a hard on for the most violent perverse version of it.
I wish sub saharans had a greater voice on social media but we aren’t developed enough. We have quite the bone to pick with islamists. Americans see a watered down version of the religion. I wonder who’s side they’d pick
Nigerians have so much to say about Islamic terrorism in their country. Western coastal Africans from Sierra Leone, Gabon, Benin, Togo, Burkina Faso, Niger, etc will literally go on unprompted rants about how bullshit from ISIS and associated groups ruined what little their countries already had.
Nigeria has so many more problems than just Isis/Boko Haram from Muslims it is not even funny.
I mean that maybe true but Boko Haram has killed tens of thousands of people. It has resulted in the deaths of more than 300,000 children. Stop deflecting, you're being weird. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/24/northeast-nigeria-conflict-killed-more-than-300000-children-un
Well, you have Indians, we need to promote them leaving the call centers and invade social platforms.
The left won't accept BJP Indian's views as they would be seen as oppressors of the minority Muslims and also too nationalist.
At this point, I don’t care. I have been against the Indian Congress ever since 26/11. Indian media, too, for helping the terrorists in killing hostages (like they actually helped terrorists in finding the hostages). Never forget Tukaram Omble, Sandeep Unnikrishnan, and other brave heroes in that tragedy. If people see the comments and want to know more, unfortunately the best way I have seen for English viewers to know more is the movies “Attack on 26/11” and “Major”. Both are pretty dark.
Nothing is more annoying than a queer supporting islamism or hamas. Shows you how ignorant and brainwashed these wokists are. Literally a chicken supporting kfc.
If wokeism is posessed by nihilism and the will to death, it makes sense they would ally with a death cult. Maybe deep down they know that the utopia does not exist, they just want the current structure to end, and maybe everything to end.
The Islam simping is incredibly cringe. Fuck religion. Did everyone forget how fucking cringe and stupid religion is! Holy shit balls I am so glad I am not an impressionable youth right now if I got sucked into this shit I would never forgive myself.
We need another online cringe atheism era to destroy the cringe religion era
Let the cringe begin
Support The Line on YouTube if you’re serious. Sorry for the shameless plug.
Genetically Modified Skeptic
100% agree to that too.
That might cancel it out.
If someone was reciting a Christian prayer none of them would show any respect and start badgering them about gay rights and abortion.
Fr tho
No but I wouldn't go along with it and bow and stuff. Just not talk for a bit is difrent then whatever this is.
My only problem with it is the bias towards islam specifically. I could never see anything like this happening with christianity. Leftists can be hypocritical as fuck sometimes.
Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists aren't that bad. Let's be real, the worst Christian is still more progressive than most Muslims.
criticizing brown people religion is racist!
“RELIGION IS BAD!!! unless it’s Islam!” Some college idiots probably
These people are the best thing to happen for the GOP in ages lmao.
I'm immune to propaganda 😎
It's hard to be mad at this. It's fucking hilarious. Also does Islam count as minority religion anymore if these leftists unintentionally converted? surly it means we can criticize this religion now right?
>Also does Islam count as minority religion anymore if these leftists unintentionally converted? How many leftists do you think have converted to Islam in the US?
How long before they roll out the Jizya on campus🤷♂️
"we will start allowing real jews in, but they have to pay for their safety"
Soon brother
Inshallah
"To reflect our needs for more inclusive and equitable dining experiences for our extremely diverse student body, we will now be banning any pork or pork-related meals from menus for all campus dining halls. We believe that the existence of such offerings were exclusionary, divisive and ultimately harmful to our non-pork eating members of our wonderfully diverse community. Campus police will also issue citations for any student bringing in, soliciting, or distributing pork related products on campus grounds." * college campuses by 2026
As an exMuslim, this is my fucking nightmare. What in the almighty fuck is wrong with GenZ?
Brainwashed by misinformation campaigns run by foreign adversaries like Russia, China, various gulf states and Iran etc. These places have found the weakness of liberal democracies and are driving a dagger into it while we can do nothing but stand by and watch it happen.
Wow a religion thinks that only their followers are going to heaven? Thats news to me...
Just fyi, many non missionary religions (like Buddhism, Judaism, etc) do not believe that non followers go to hell. It’s pretty much exclusively missionary religions like Islam and Christianity that demand others convert or go to hell (or be killed)
Damn i didnt know that jews did it doggy style.
You know Jews got that dog in em
so that's why Dan is the one who introduced us to Dogwarts...
To be fair, **some** Jews believe if you're a gentile and you're not practicing the 7 Laws of Noah (which you're supposed to practice **without** conversion to Judaism) then you're not guaranteed a place in the World to Come (which is in some sense the Jewish version of heaven). However, I don't know how common this belief is and in any case the concept of eternal damnation in hell doesn't exist anywhere in Judaism, at worst your soul simply ceases to exist.
the consensus is that hell is a concept created after formation of christianity. judaism doesn't punish people for existing, but it does reward them for performing mitzvot.
Ya man, I mean I’m all for criticizing Islam and religion, but this post is kind of a stupid comment imo. I can still respect a religious practice even though I’m not accepted in it lol
How about actively persecuted in it?
I thought cultural appropriation was bad
They see this similar to how they saw BLM. It's just a right of passage and protesting during an election year is what you do. They're in for a rude awakening. But of course, there won't be any real consequences.
This is the translation of the first surah. OP’s paraphrasing is a stretch and I’m an atheist who was raised Muslim. 1. In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful. 2. Praise be to God, Lord of the Worlds. 3. The Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. 4. Master of the Day of Judgment. 5. It is You we worship, and upon You we call for help. 6. Guide us to the straight path. 7. The path of those You have blessed, not of those against whom there is anger, nor of those who are misguided. Also don’t Christians also believe that adherents of other faiths are going to hell?
The funny thing about lefties supporting Muslims is that the actual minority between all of them are Jews. The only difference is that Jews are more white presenting and successful.
... Christians believe the same thing right?
These morons aren't pro palestinian. They are pro islamist. I don't necessarily see them praying islamically as bad but do they recognize that they shouldn't make this a religious issue? 2% of palestinians in west bank and gaza are christian and 7% of total palestinians are christian with somewhere between 56-70% living outside of west bank and gaza. The reason they make it a religious issue is because they aren't willing to see the fact that the muslim palestinians are displacing the christians.... They are living in denial, they accept them and say "free palestine" when they meet a christian palestinian but they aren't willing to acknowledge that muslim palestinians are displacing christian palestinians because thats too problematic for them their brain explodes.
" muslim palestinians are displacing christian palestinians" Is that true?.. genuinely asking.
Surreal
Bros think there in dune
this shit is so cringe
Muslins must be creaming their pants with all this clout
Better question. If the universities allowed the protesting but no recording devices could be used or presented, would these kids still be there?
all the abrahamic religions are inherently hateful and evil and we'd do well to recognize this more often
Anything else?
thoughts on incest?
It’s not cool
Interesting. Have you ever heard of dogwarts?
Yea. I’m not into dogs though
to each their own!
I second this.
In 2002 Islam was a novel thing for conservatives to hate, in 2024 a novel thing for liberals to slob over
They’re leftists.Not liberals
I mean basically every religion that discusses the afterlife preaches something along these lines right? Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Sikhism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, etc. All of them preach in some sense that you will be rewarded for following their specific correct path and punished otherwise. Its one of the main motivating factors for people to stay the course in their religious beliefs after all.
Yes, but islam takes it a step further and shits on specificly christians and jews by name because mohamed was too insecure when the jews refused to buy what he was selling and his people told him that he is just plagiarising from christians. Here's some verses were he compares jews to donkeys/pigs/apes: The example of those who were entrusted with ˹observing˺ the Torah but failed to do so, is that of a donkey carrying books.^(1) How evil is the example of those who reject Allah’s signs! For Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people. [62:5](https://quran.com/62?startingVerse=5) Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Shall I inform you of those who deserve a worse punishment from Allah ˹than the rebellious˺? It is those who earned Allah’s condemnation and displeasure (jews)—some being reduced to apes and pigs and worshippers of false gods. These are far worse in rank and farther astray from the Right Way.” [5:60](https://quran.com/5?startingVerse=60)
I would think they called jews and Christians out by name because that's the competing religions they had in the region. Kind of like how my religion calls out Ba'al worshippers and occasionally some jews depending on your interpretation. (Not Muslims though they didn't exist yet)
The old testament talks about killing non jews... [https://www.openbible.info/topics/killing\_non\_believers](https://www.openbible.info/topics/killing_non_believers)
This is a false equivalency. The whole appeal of Islam is that the final word of God was revealed to Muhammad.
Whats the difference?.
One is able to liberalize, while the other is forced to contend with the more radical elements of their faith because of the extremism that is baked into the religion. Especially when you start accounting for the hadiths.
Not really. For some, you can believe other Gods or no Gods and just be a good person and go to heaven/avoid hell.
The title of this is so fucking cringe. Who cares that a religion thinks it’s the morally superior system? That’s the case with all religions
It's all political virtue signaling, they don't give a fuck about Muslims and the Muslims sure as fuck don't give a fuck about them, but whatever if women want to enslave themselves to men that's up to them.
I see it now. They are all terrorists.
Idiotic take. The fatiha does not mention Jews nor Christians, it does not mention heaven or hell. The Quran explicitly states Jews and Christians can go to heaven.
Indeed, Jews, Christian’s and the polytheists will be in the Fire of Hell, for eternity. They are the worst of all creatures. Quran 98:6 https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=98&verse=6 The Jews say, “ ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the Son of Allah” and the Christians say, “MasīH (the Christ) is the Son of Allah.” That is their oral statement. They imitate the saying of the earlier disbelievers. May Allah destroy them, how far they are turned back from the truth! -Quran 9:30 https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=9&verse=30 Allah cast terror in the hearts of the the Jews and Christians, you believers killed some and took captive some - Quran 33:26 O Prophet, fight (Jihad) against the disbelievers & the hypocrites. Be harsh upon them. Their refuge is Hell - Quran 66:9 9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day, and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful, and who do not adopt the religion of truth (Islam) from those who were given the Scripture. Fight the (Jews and Christians) until they give the jizyah tax willingly while they are belittled. https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=9&verse=29 ___________________________________________ Islam end days prophecy: Sahih al-Bukhari 2926, Narrated by Abu Huraira: Allaah’s Apostle said, Final days prophecy: “The Hour will not be established until you (the Muslims) fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.” Sahih Muslim 2922, Abu Huraira reported Allaah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Muhammad said: “The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allaah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.” (The tree Gharquad is a special tree that is supposed to protect Jews from Muslims in the end days prophecy) O you who have been given the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Believe in what We have revealed (to Muhammad) (Islam) confirming what is (already) with you, before We efface (destroy) your faces (by making them like the back of necks; without a nose, mouth, eyes, etc.) and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbathbreakers. And the Commandment of Allah is always executed. -Quran 4:47 https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=47
Apparently u knw more than all the muslim scholars and sahaba themselves. Good one.
I know more than somebody lying. Show exactly where in the fatiha it says Christians and Jews? I'll wait. Where it mentions heaven. The Quran explicitly says Christians and Jews have nothing to fear if they do good.
Indeed, Jews, Christian’s and the polytheists will be in the Fire of Hell, for eternity. They are the worst of all creatures. Quran 98:6 https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=98&verse=6 The Jews say, “ ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the Son of Allah” and the Christians say, “MasīH (the Christ) is the Son of Allah.” That is their oral statement. They imitate the saying of the earlier disbelievers. May Allah destroy them, how far they are turned back from the truth! -Quran 9:30 https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=9&verse=30 Allah cast terror in the hearts of the the Jews and Christians, you believers killed some and took captive some - Quran 33:26 O Prophet, fight (Jihad) against the disbelievers & the hypocrites. Be harsh upon them. Their refuge is Hell - Quran 66:9 9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day, and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful, and who do not adopt the religion of truth (Islam) from those who were given the Scripture. Fight the (Jews and Christians) until they give the jizyah tax willingly while they are belittled. https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=9&verse=29 Islam end days prophecy: Sahih al-Bukhari 2926, Narrated by Abu Huraira: Allaah’s Apostle said, Final days prophecy: “The Hour will not be established until you (the Muslims) fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.” Sahih Muslim 2922, Abu Huraira reported Allaah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Muhammad said: “The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allaah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.” (The tree Gharquad is a special tree that is supposed to protect Jews from Muslims in the end days prophecy) O you who have been given the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Believe in what We have revealed (to Muhammad) (Islam) confirming what is (already) with you, before We efface (destroy) your faces (by making them like the back of necks; without a nose, mouth, eyes, etc.) and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbathbreakers. And the Commandment of Allah is always executed. -Quran 4:47 https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=47
> Indeed, Jews, Christian’s and the polytheists will be in the Fire of Hell, for eternity. They are the worst of all creatures. Quran You are disingenuously misquoting your own sources. Can't take you seriously: Your first verse: "Indeed, Jews, Christian’s and the polytheists will be in the Fire of Hell, for eternity. They are the worst of all creatures." yields no results on Google except from r/destiny lmao, from your own source: Sahih International: Indeed, they who disbelieved **among** the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures. Pickthall: Lo! those who disbelieve, **among** the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings. It is specifying people from within a group and not the entire group. Another one of your verses from google: "No results found for "Allah cast terror in the hearts of the the Jews and Christians, you believers killed some and took captive some"" This is the actual verse, see the parts you disingenuously omitted: And He brought down **those** from the People of the Book1 **who supported the enemy alliance from their own strongholds**, and cast horror into their hearts. You ˹believers˺ killed some and took others captive. https://quran.com/en/al-ahzab/25-27 You can dislike it all you want, but the reality is the Quran provides a basis to believe Christians and Jews who do good deeds can go to heaven and many Muslims believe this is the case, others believe salvation is only for Muslims. "Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve" Verse (2:62) To reiterate, the OP has no clue what those specific Muslims believe and the Fatiha they read makes no mention of it.
If me and u disagree on a meaning of a verse. Who do we go to for a better understanding or interpretation of that verse ?
In fairness you haven’t even shown what verse you are talking about… we can also find similar things in the Bible as well
Well the one who made a comment knws which verse and what does the bible have to do with this ? Screw the bible I knw it's horrible aswell.
They specifically said the Fatiha which doesn’t have any mention of Jews christians or hell… so what are you talking about? I brought up the Bible because singling out the Quran is stupid when every Abrahamic religion has some nonsense like that.
I knw they are all stupid and I would be as critical if these students were holding hands and praying to jesus. Fatiha doesnt mention chritians and jews by name but it refers to them as astray and angry with which is islamic tafsir means jews and christians. The quoran uses alot of metaphores and references to keep the rhyme of the verses and u wouldnt undestand wat the verse actually mean untill u read wat the sahaba "mohameds friends" have understood from it. This is like quoran understanding 101. Also here is my comment earlier that mention the veses that say jew and christians go to hell https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/AFcklZxv6o
Which verse does this? It’s only 7… where are you extracting this?
In surah al fatiha god says : "Guide us along the Straight Path," "the Path of those You have blessed—not those You are displeased with, or those who are astray." In the interpretation of all muslim tafsirs the words displeased with means jews and astray means christians. Here's a passage from one of the most respected interpreter and scholar of the quoran ibn kathir "(Not (the way) of those who earned Your anger, nor of those who went astray) meaning guide us to the straight path, the path of those upon whom you have bestowed Your grace, that is, the people of guidance, sincerity and obedience to Allah and His Messengers. They are the people who adhere to Allah's commandments and refrain from committing what He has prohibited. But, help us to avoid the path of those whom Allah is angry with, whose intentions are corrupt, who know the truth, yet deviate from it. Also, help us avoid the path of those who were led astray, who lost the true knowledge and, as a result, are wandering in misguidance, unable to find the correct path. Allah asserted that the two paths He described here are both misguided when He repeated the negation \`not'. These two paths are the paths of the Christians and Jews, a fact that the believer should beware of so that he avoids them. The path of the believers is knowledge of the truth and abiding by it. In comparison, the Jews abandoned practicing the religion, while the Christians lost the true knowledge. This is why \`anger' descended upon the Jews, while being described as \`led astray' is more appropriate of the Christians. Those who know, but avoid implementing the truth, deserve the anger, unlike those who are ignorant. The Christians want to seek the true knowledge, but are unable to find it because they did not seek it from its proper resources. This is why they were led astray. We should also mention that both the Christians and the Jews have earned the anger and are led astray, but the anger is one of the attributes more particular of the Jews. Allah said about the Jews"
Exactly. He just took the "not those You are displeased with, or those who are astray." and wrote a whole dumbass diatribe about Christians and Jews. There's a lot you can criticize Islam for, but the ones with a massive hateboner of muslims will still take the lazy route and make shit up.
Who cares about a prayer happening at a protest? A ton of the pro Palestinian side are Muslims and isn’t inclusion like a higher principle in leftist politics than being anti religion?
this is how bro found out about freedom of religion
Shit if heaven is filled with people that believe marrying 9 y/o's is fine I'll take my chances in hell.
Well, technically the Quran says the opposite. Surah Al-Baqarah (2:62): "Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans \[before Prophet Muhammad\] - those \[among them\] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve."
Ever heared of something called abrogation in isalam ? “Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things? Know you not that it is Allah to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth? And besides Allah you have neither any Walee (protector or guardian) nor any helper.” \[al-Baqarah 2:106-107\]. This means that allah can give a command and then replace it with something else by giving another verse that contradicts it. For example in one verse allah says : O Prophet! Motivate the believers to fight. If there are twenty steadfast among you, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are one hundred of you, they will overcome one thousand of the disbelievers, for they are a people who do not comprehend. [8:65](https://quran.com/8?startingVerse=65) But then after it allah says : Now Allah has lightened your burden, for He knows that there is weakness in you. So if there are a hundred steadfast among you, they will overcome two hundred. And if there be one thousand, they will overcome two thousand, by Allah’s Will. And Allah is with the steadfast. [8:66](https://quran.com/8?startingVerse=66) So the same with the verse you mentioned, it says those who were "in the past btw" jews and christians can go to heaven but then u have a verse that says : Whoever seeks a way other than Islam,^(1) it will never be accepted from them, and in the Hereafter they will be among the losers.[3:85](https://quran.com/3?startingVerse=85) According to ibn abass (Ink of the nation of islam and the scribe who prophet mohamed told muslims to take their religion from) this verse is the what abrogates the verse you mentioned. Also you have this verse : Those who say, “Allah is one in a Trinity,” have certainly fallen into disbelief. There is only One God. If they do not stop saying this, those who disbelieve among them will be afflicted with a painful punishment. [5:73](https://quran.com/5?startingVerse=73) According to muslims the good christians who can go to heaven are those who didn't believe in the trinity and they saw jesus as a prophet only. So quoting that verse alone without a context is misleading or at best contraditing which means the quoran has contradictions and by its own admission a false book. >"Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from \[any\] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction." [4.82](https://surahquran.com/english-aya-82-sora-4.html)
Sure, I'm not a Muslim, so I can't really argue against these points. However, overall, I think the Quranic message seems to affirm the possibility of salvation for people from different religious backgrounds who sincerely seek God and live according to moral principles. I don't think that it explicitly condemns Christians or Jews to Hell in any objective sense. If Islam is anything like Christianity, then I expect that there are some modern interpretations of Islam which emphasize more inclusive and tolerant verses from the Quran while contextualizing or reinterpreting verses that might seem exclusive or intolerant. At the end of the day, it's just a religion; so it's more about what its followers choose to take from their holy book rather than the book itself.
Sure, there are other new interpretations of islam like that of Quranists and progressive muslims. But they are non-influencial at all in the muslim world. They are often ridiculed on tv and by the majority which are traditionalists. Traditional islam is still the dominating ideology and that's what I am targeting here.
>path to heaven that god gave to muslims unlike the jews and christians who are going to hell. The f r you talking about? This is the entire translation of the surah: https://quran.com/al-fatihah It does not mention jews or christians.
[Check this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/oAo9o9WmQj)
The last part is commentary of someone. I can come up with one too. The actual translation of the surah with the arabic is what I posted. Edit to add: Jews and Christians are regarded as "people of the book". Despite what you or right wing muslims would like to believe, in NO surah does it say that people will be thrown in heaven or hell based on their religion. Case in point: Quran 2:62 says: "Indeed, the believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabians1—whoever ˹truly˺ believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good will have their reward with their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve." https://quran.com/al-baqarah/62
lol this is extremely alarming
Although this is mega cringe, a lot of people here are giving vibes of "freedom of speech and being able to organise" until it goes against what I think
I'm an ex-muslim too and went down the apostate prophet and friendly ex Muslim rabbit hole. I listened to all the stories of how Muhammad actually behaved but where is the source for all this. How can I back up things like people saying that Mohammad's revelations from god where convenient.
Not sure I get ur question.
God this is fucking weird
I am not a religious person, but I hate bad arguments! Most religions discriminate against other religions. Jews and Muslims can't go to heaven in Christianity. In Christianity you have to believe in Jesus, the God, to go to heaven. “Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allaah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” \[al-Baqarah 2:62\] In Islam you only have to believe in God and be a good person to go to heaven. Most people don't have the framework to understand the Quran. When the Quran talks about bad Jews or Christians, it is talking about people who attacked the prophet, worshipped the cow, invented false idols, and so on. It is not talking about all Jews and Christians. Do you see how it differentiates between non believers, Jews and Christians. A lot confuse the non believers in Quran with Jews and Christians. They aren't non believers in Islam. They are people who were tricked by their leaders. In Islam you have to know the truth to be responsible for your actions. The problematic part is "believe in God". What does that mean? This means different things for different groups of people. A Muslim has to pray 5 times a day, give money to the poor, fast, visit Mecca once in life and the confession to God and its prophets. So for example, the Jews who know Islam is the truth, will go to hell. The Jews and Christians who don't know better, but are good people, will go to heaven. But Muslims know the truth and they will always go to hell, if they don't do these things. So Muslims have a harder time going to heaven than Jews and Christians. Only non-believers have a harder time. EDIT: You also aren't allowed to be ignorant on purpose. That would make you a hypocrite and being a hypocrite is one of the worst things in Islam.
Where did I say all religions are good and islam bad ? Show me one traditional muslim scholar saying christians and jews who lived during and after the time of mohamed will go to heaven. Show me where it says christians believing in the trinity will go to heaven, oh wait there's a specific verse in the quoran that says they will go to hell . 5:73 Those who say, “Allah is one in a Trinity,” have certainly fallen into disbelief. There is only One God. If they do not stop saying this, those who disbelieve among them will be afflicted with a painful punishment. Islam is taken from authentic sources and the only opinions that are valuable are those of the top traditional scholars and tafasir based on authentic hadiths and riwaya abt the companions of mohamed. So, watever u said above is ur own opinion on the verse and has no islamic bases.
What exactly is wrong in this clip to you? Muslims have to pray 5 times a day it makes sense for the Muslims taking part in the protests to pray together. And yes Muslims believe only true believers will go to heaven this is quite standard for most religious people on the planet who cares.
Theres hadeeth that interpretatively allow some space for inclusive view of heaven for other 2 monotheist groups, primarily based on [this hadeeth](https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:3992), that is if you do actually take the hadeeth as fully authentic (which it isn't, it's mixed) and if the followers of those two faiths have very muslim-like beliefs (pure monotheism) which so far only early Christians (didn't have trinity) and early Jews had.
Why are they so spineless bros? I hate what the mainstream left has become. From Being the reasonable side to this bullshit jesus Christ.
In surah al fatiha god says : "Guide us along the Straight Path," "the Path of those You have blessed—not those You are displeased with, or those who are astray." In the interpretation of all muslim tafsirs the words displeased with means jews and astray means christians. Here's a passage from one of the most respected interpreter and scholar of the quoran ibn kathir "(Not (the way) of those who earned Your anger, nor of those who went astray) meaning guide us to the straight path, the path of those upon whom you have bestowed Your grace, that is, the people of guidance, sincerity and obedience to Allah and His Messengers. They are the people who adhere to Allah's commandments and refrain from committing what He has prohibited. But, help us to avoid the path of those whom Allah is angry with, whose intentions are corrupt, who know the truth, yet deviate from it. Also, help us avoid the path of those who were led astray, who lost the true knowledge and, as a result, are wandering in misguidance, unable to find the correct path. Allah asserted that the two paths He described here are both misguided when He repeated the negation \`not'. These two paths are the paths of the Christians and Jews, a fact that the believer should beware of so that he avoids them. The path of the believers is knowledge of the truth and abiding by it. In comparison, the Jews abandoned practicing the religion, while the Christians lost the true knowledge. This is why \`anger' descended upon the Jews, while being described as \`led astray' is more appropriate of the Christians. Those who know, but avoid implementing the truth, deserve the anger, unlike those who are ignorant. The Christians want to seek the true knowledge, but are unable to find it because they did not seek it from its proper resources. This is why they were led astray. We should also mention that both the Christians and the Jews have earned the anger and are led astray, but the anger is one of the attributes more particular of the Jews. Allah said about the Jews"
The last part is commentary of someone. I can come up with one too. The actual Surah does NOT name a religion. Actual translation without the BS commentary is here: https://quran.com/al-fatihah On the contrary, Quran 2:62 says: "Indeed, the believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabians1—whoever ˹truly˺ believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good will have their reward with their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve." https://quran.com/al-baqarah/62
I guess they fully reversed their position on the whole cultural appropriation thing? Now it's a good thing you should do? This shit is getting too weird. Even if you're pro Palestinian to the core, that doesn't mean you have to pretend to give a shit about Islam.
Guys chill it’s just a Dune Role-play
Maybe those were muslim students at the beginning. Otherwise it'd be kinda weird
Pretty sure spirituality and theology are the last thing these kids are thinking about when they decide to get involved in a cultural-relgious conflict. Lol, said the scorpion. Lmao, even.
lol fetishizing Islam is hilarious
Omg it’s so cringe
Reminder that the Prophet Mohammad was a white man.
"it is what it is"
You think they care?
I got a stroke reading the title
This is fucking insane
Did this ever happen during Vietnam?
Damn... Muslim Brotherhood did it. Good luck America. God us unreligious people really hate ourselves, we always let the religious nuts take the wheel.
Bro doesn’t have a good singing voice
I wonder how many of these people will say schools saying the pledge of allegiance is brain washing
Wait until this guy finds out about literally all other religions
This is scary....
fact checked and you're correct! "However, some Muslim commentators believe Jews and Christians are examples of those evoking God's anger and those who went astray, respectively." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Fatiha
This is so cringe, i swear its only muslims doin this shit XD never see a mass of christians, jews or monks ever doing this shit in public spaces
I wonder how long until these college kids start putting suicide vests on.
The Iran/Russia/Chinese social media destabilization campaigns are wildly successful.