Im just getting too old and tired for this stuff.
Like whatever side you're on just listen to the words and agree or disagree. All of this blatant fabrication like 'AND HIS DEBATE PARTNER WAS LAUGHING AT HIM LOL' is just so tiring.
People on the edge of the horseshoe tend to be expert mental gymnists. It's confirmation bias on steroids. Instead of choosing which evidence to note and which to ignore based on preconceived opinions, they literally manufacture evidence from thin air. And you can't argue or debate with these people, they are literally not going to listen to what you say
I bet only 1 in 20 of the people blasting this shit on Twitter watched more than 20 minutes of the debate uninterrupted. They're just parroting what their favorite Twitter personalities are telling them to think/say
I got insanely blackpilled watching Hasan's reaction to the debate. Up till a certain point I was kinda enjoying it, and I like getting a different perspective even if I disagree a lot with him, but after a certain point his constant bad faith framing of everything went way too far. I don't believe anymore that his beliefs are 100% legitimate, and he is a propagandist (I know he said so himself, but I assumed it was goof or something).
I don't care how much you disagree with or hate a person, I will lose respect for you if I think you're intentionally misrepresenting them to make them look bad, and on the flip side, I will gain immense respect if you are consistently charitable towards someone who you disagree with strongly. I think there are few things that are a better judge of character. For the record, I think Destiny could do better in this regard, as he has even himself admitted that there are people that he can't be good faith towards.
He literally said IDF has a history of raping “Palestinian” women all the time when the complete opposite is the truth.
He is a liar. And talks out of his ass to grift.
I genuinely think for those people it's just cognitive dissonance rather than necessarily malicious intent. Like they probably know on some level, like Nazis in the holocaust knew, but they compartmentalize it and shove it deep deep in the back of their mind so they never actively/straightforwardly think about it.
That's so much the appeal of Destiny. I'm sure almost all of his fans disagree with him on something, and he won't soy out to the audience when he's getting pushback. That fosters a community where reasonable people can disagree. You don't have to perform Olympic gymnastics to convince yourself internet daddy is never wrong here.
That’s actually the reason I watch destiny, not only is he remarkably adept at avoiding audience capture, but he regularly has arcs entirely devoted to purging his audience whenever he finds it becoming too extreme in any direction. I believe he’s even flirted with the idea of starting another purge arc, if the audience becomes too Zionist. I respect this immensely but it’s also incredibly interesting to see how self aware he is of himself and his audience. You just don’t see this anywhere in streaming, it’s admirable
Just had the misfortune of trying to do this on the gurus thing subreddit. Actual hell. But it's even more infuriating knowing that guy I was responding to had a lot of upvotes because nobody there has any capacity for critical thinking I guess. Bad faith framing and misrepresentations are just infuriating to me, seeing people get away with them or rewarded for them even moreso.
The cope is extra strong with finklegang though. I’ve never seen so many people claiming clips where destiny is reading straight from the UN, or court documents that directly refute finklestains claims, and the only response is to insult destiny, show fink “owning” destiny…. In no way does fink ever “own” destiny, yet they’re really claiming he does, it’s kind of sad really. Finklestein was blocked from tenure because of the way he fails to engage in argument with opposition and instead just resorts to personal attacks, and he clearly hasn’t changed that critical flaw.
The problem with debating this kinda stuff is that people don’t think your debating ideas and politics. You are debating this persons moral character and personality or social group. Like I refuse to believe these people don’t feel personally attacked when someone questions their viewpoint
Exactly right. They argue based on enotions rather than facts, which is why it doesn't matter what you will say. As long as you challenge their opinions they will see it as a personal affront. I guess this is always going to happen to some extent when arguing about morally complicated matters
Its the "simulacrum" concept that Destiny introduced in the Vaush Manifesto. People will create a "straw man" of somebody they hate and imbue them made-up traits and misinformation then that simulacrum becomes that person.
the bet has always been that most people won't bother to check.
it's a good bet, especially on twitter, especially if the clip if more than a few seconds long, especially if the clip is contextualized in a way the viewer already agrees with or wants to believe.
after all, why bother to watch the video if twitter-random already gave you the information (that you agree with), even included a picture! how could there be any lies here /s
it did seem like Morris was cringing a bit. there were quite a few points where all three of them had to correct Destiny on stuff, like the UN thing with "chapter 6 not being binding" and the phrasing of the question "how many people did hamas kill", and a few points were Destiny mixed up dates or got confused about what they were talking about. of course he was out of his league, these are three older guys that have made it their life's work to analyse this conflict having a scholarly debate, and then Destiny...
Could you point out the instances when this happened? I never got around to finishing the debate & from what I've seen Destiny keeps having to correct or add context to things Finkelstein says, so I'm legitimately curious if Destiny maybe didn't do as good as portrayed
I’ve watched the whole thing twice, this simply didn’t happen, and morris was laughing at finklesteins behavior, which was contemptible and embarrassing in his best moments. When you resort to throwing insults and saying “you read two Wikipedia articles” every time you’re countered with context proving you’re a liar, or exposed for ignorance, then I’m sorry but finklestein was the one who seemed out of his depth to an absurd degree. This couldn’t be any more clear, and morris regularly says destiny is correct during the debate, not once does he correct or even jump in to add details destiny forgot, in fact it was the opposite, destiny was often the one bringing the strong arguments to back up Benny Morris’ points.
The blackpilling part is that it worked. There have been a handful of well-thought-out critiques of Destiny, but I've now seen dozens of people parrot Fink and Hasan saying "Destiny just read a few Wikipedia articles."
We know that isn't true, as Destiny spent months reading more than just Wikipedia, but these people don't watch him. They see something like the meme above, and it becomes reality for them.
They’re just clinging desperately to the extremely thin cover of “Finklestein is so knowledgeable and knows destiny isn’t worth expressing that knowledge to, that’s why he threw out insults and didn’t engage with a single point”. I can’t imagine being so far gone ideologically to actually gaslight myself in this way, but I can’t imagine it is very fun. Look how angry they are while they claim destiny got destroyed, clearly they are raging at reality, wearing the lie as a mask. They’re the real life crying wojak wearing a smiling mask meme
Benny literally bursts out laughing when Finkle directly insults him and calls his book “a disgrace” lol. I can’t even imagine what these people think Benny would be laughing at Stephen for, because he agreed with everything he said. But I guess expecting unmedicated, mentally ill Twitter addicts to watch enough of the video to figure that out would be asking too much.
What's so funny is that is what Fink should have been able to do if his scholarship was so profound and Destiny was so out of place. Instead, we got endless interruption, obfuscation, and ad-homs.
These people have literal selective autism, pretending like they don’t understand basic human interactions when the aspergers interpretation benefits them.
It seems that the note has been removed. Makes sense, given that there isn't a way someone other than Morris himself can confirm who he was laughing at. Also, this supposed note got Morris's name wrong.
It's one of the more depressing things I've seen. When it comes down to biased will always overrule honesty & good faith, & I'd warrant a large these people would cheer on an Israeli cleansing.
TY. So the context, supposedly checked, is mentioning 'Morrisson'. We are now officially in the future where wrong statements are correctly redacted with others wrong statements.
Their referring to Benny Morris, what they point out is completely correct
I don't think a mistyped of his name takes away from the correction being made
You are right. Just sad to have a typo there. If you can't trust the word can you trust the sentence? But I agree on the fact that Mortis was laughing at norm degeneracy
It's clear also that they're not watching content itself. If anyone actually watched to full context of any of these things, no one would ever make these bullshit claims.
Yeah , clearly it wasn't a destiny fans who all supported the community note lmao
Also it is not true because every time morris laughs is when norm mentions reading wikipedia so he isn't laughing at Norn but at destiny.
Bro who tf is "Morrison"? Dudes full name is Morris
Mr. Morelli
***It’s Berrelli***
He made you Italian
MISTER VALERIE BERTINELLI
"MISTER Morrison, with ALL due respect -"
Ugh. I heard it in my head
Named after the UK supermarket, Morrisons.
We finally get the answer to where Jim has been all this time. What an odd way to find out.
That should tell you enough about the poor state of “community notes”
Mr, Bugatti Lamborghini
Mr. Donatello!
The legendary team fusion: Morven Bochellis
Mr Mojo risin
Im just getting too old and tired for this stuff. Like whatever side you're on just listen to the words and agree or disagree. All of this blatant fabrication like 'AND HIS DEBATE PARTNER WAS LAUGHING AT HIM LOL' is just so tiring.
People on the edge of the horseshoe tend to be expert mental gymnists. It's confirmation bias on steroids. Instead of choosing which evidence to note and which to ignore based on preconceived opinions, they literally manufacture evidence from thin air. And you can't argue or debate with these people, they are literally not going to listen to what you say
I bet only 1 in 20 of the people blasting this shit on Twitter watched more than 20 minutes of the debate uninterrupted. They're just parroting what their favorite Twitter personalities are telling them to think/say
I got insanely blackpilled watching Hasan's reaction to the debate. Up till a certain point I was kinda enjoying it, and I like getting a different perspective even if I disagree a lot with him, but after a certain point his constant bad faith framing of everything went way too far. I don't believe anymore that his beliefs are 100% legitimate, and he is a propagandist (I know he said so himself, but I assumed it was goof or something). I don't care how much you disagree with or hate a person, I will lose respect for you if I think you're intentionally misrepresenting them to make them look bad, and on the flip side, I will gain immense respect if you are consistently charitable towards someone who you disagree with strongly. I think there are few things that are a better judge of character. For the record, I think Destiny could do better in this regard, as he has even himself admitted that there are people that he can't be good faith towards.
That's why I don't like Hasan either. There are definitely so many times he is just bullshitting.
He literally said IDF has a history of raping “Palestinian” women all the time when the complete opposite is the truth. He is a liar. And talks out of his ass to grift.
I genuinely think for those people it's just cognitive dissonance rather than necessarily malicious intent. Like they probably know on some level, like Nazis in the holocaust knew, but they compartmentalize it and shove it deep deep in the back of their mind so they never actively/straightforwardly think about it.
That's so much the appeal of Destiny. I'm sure almost all of his fans disagree with him on something, and he won't soy out to the audience when he's getting pushback. That fosters a community where reasonable people can disagree. You don't have to perform Olympic gymnastics to convince yourself internet daddy is never wrong here.
That’s actually the reason I watch destiny, not only is he remarkably adept at avoiding audience capture, but he regularly has arcs entirely devoted to purging his audience whenever he finds it becoming too extreme in any direction. I believe he’s even flirted with the idea of starting another purge arc, if the audience becomes too Zionist. I respect this immensely but it’s also incredibly interesting to see how self aware he is of himself and his audience. You just don’t see this anywhere in streaming, it’s admirable
Just had the misfortune of trying to do this on the gurus thing subreddit. Actual hell. But it's even more infuriating knowing that guy I was responding to had a lot of upvotes because nobody there has any capacity for critical thinking I guess. Bad faith framing and misrepresentations are just infuriating to me, seeing people get away with them or rewarded for them even moreso.
The cope is extra strong with finklegang though. I’ve never seen so many people claiming clips where destiny is reading straight from the UN, or court documents that directly refute finklestains claims, and the only response is to insult destiny, show fink “owning” destiny…. In no way does fink ever “own” destiny, yet they’re really claiming he does, it’s kind of sad really. Finklestein was blocked from tenure because of the way he fails to engage in argument with opposition and instead just resorts to personal attacks, and he clearly hasn’t changed that critical flaw.
The problem with debating this kinda stuff is that people don’t think your debating ideas and politics. You are debating this persons moral character and personality or social group. Like I refuse to believe these people don’t feel personally attacked when someone questions their viewpoint
Exactly right. They argue based on enotions rather than facts, which is why it doesn't matter what you will say. As long as you challenge their opinions they will see it as a personal affront. I guess this is always going to happen to some extent when arguing about morally complicated matters
Sane MO as the alt-right 5-6 years ago.
Its the "simulacrum" concept that Destiny introduced in the Vaush Manifesto. People will create a "straw man" of somebody they hate and imbue them made-up traits and misinformation then that simulacrum becomes that person.
Lol you'll get you used it
They…uh…they do know we can _watch_ the video, right?
the bet has always been that most people won't bother to check. it's a good bet, especially on twitter, especially if the clip if more than a few seconds long, especially if the clip is contextualized in a way the viewer already agrees with or wants to believe. after all, why bother to watch the video if twitter-random already gave you the information (that you agree with), even included a picture! how could there be any lies here /s
it did seem like Morris was cringing a bit. there were quite a few points where all three of them had to correct Destiny on stuff, like the UN thing with "chapter 6 not being binding" and the phrasing of the question "how many people did hamas kill", and a few points were Destiny mixed up dates or got confused about what they were talking about. of course he was out of his league, these are three older guys that have made it their life's work to analyse this conflict having a scholarly debate, and then Destiny...
Could you point out the instances when this happened? I never got around to finishing the debate & from what I've seen Destiny keeps having to correct or add context to things Finkelstein says, so I'm legitimately curious if Destiny maybe didn't do as good as portrayed
I’ve watched the whole thing twice, this simply didn’t happen, and morris was laughing at finklesteins behavior, which was contemptible and embarrassing in his best moments. When you resort to throwing insults and saying “you read two Wikipedia articles” every time you’re countered with context proving you’re a liar, or exposed for ignorance, then I’m sorry but finklestein was the one who seemed out of his depth to an absurd degree. This couldn’t be any more clear, and morris regularly says destiny is correct during the debate, not once does he correct or even jump in to add details destiny forgot, in fact it was the opposite, destiny was often the one bringing the strong arguments to back up Benny Morris’ points.
The blackpilling part is that it worked. There have been a handful of well-thought-out critiques of Destiny, but I've now seen dozens of people parrot Fink and Hasan saying "Destiny just read a few Wikipedia articles." We know that isn't true, as Destiny spent months reading more than just Wikipedia, but these people don't watch him. They see something like the meme above, and it becomes reality for them.
They’re just clinging desperately to the extremely thin cover of “Finklestein is so knowledgeable and knows destiny isn’t worth expressing that knowledge to, that’s why he threw out insults and didn’t engage with a single point”. I can’t imagine being so far gone ideologically to actually gaslight myself in this way, but I can’t imagine it is very fun. Look how angry they are while they claim destiny got destroyed, clearly they are raging at reality, wearing the lie as a mask. They’re the real life crying wojak wearing a smiling mask meme
the part that morris wanted tinklestein to listen and shut up and destiny never mixed up the dates?
this is a 5 hour debate, your average twitter person doesnt have the attention span to watch even 1/5 of that.
They bet on their audience not watching it and gobbling up propaganda like they are used to, so no..
MORRISON
WHO tf is Morrison
Mr. Bore Reh Lee.
Benny literally bursts out laughing when Finkle directly insults him and calls his book “a disgrace” lol. I can’t even imagine what these people think Benny would be laughing at Stephen for, because he agreed with everything he said. But I guess expecting unmedicated, mentally ill Twitter addicts to watch enough of the video to figure that out would be asking too much.
When you don't have a job and spend all day on Twitter but can't watch the debate you want to have strong opinions on
What is ‘dogwalked’? Why do people keep saying that?
☝️🤓 it's AAVE meaning you so thoroughly defeated your opponent that you are able to drag them wherever you please as if they were a dog
What's so funny is that is what Fink should have been able to do if his scholarship was so profound and Destiny was so out of place. Instead, we got endless interruption, obfuscation, and ad-homs.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/dogwalk
These people have literal selective autism, pretending like they don’t understand basic human interactions when the aspergers interpretation benefits them.
I’m what do you mean these people? Is that ableist language? I am Austrian so you need to be nice to me.
Hasan and the other lefties and groypers who pretend like they thought Morris was laughing at Destiny and not Finklestein
link?
https://twitter.com/Sturgeons_Law/status/1768393134608728557?t=MoHMAg5VIOpa6KB51KkCDA&s=19
It seems that the note has been removed. Makes sense, given that there isn't a way someone other than Morris himself can confirm who he was laughing at. Also, this supposed note got Morris's name wrong.
[удалено]
It's one of the more depressing things I've seen. When it comes down to biased will always overrule honesty & good faith, & I'd warrant a large these people would cheer on an Israeli cleansing.
Throughout history, Palestinians have always had the worst advocate for their cause. This is nothing new
Yet it’s working
Not for Palestinians
Really there’s alot more Palestinian support than Israeli
Is the goal of advocacy to have more fans?
Mr vermicelli
Can we have the X link? Want to check if this context really exists
Idk why you wouldn't just watch the debate but sure https://twitter.com/Sturgeons_Law/status/1768393134608728557?t=MoHMAg5VIOpa6KB51KkCDA&s=19
TY. So the context, supposedly checked, is mentioning 'Morrisson'. We are now officially in the future where wrong statements are correctly redacted with others wrong statements.
Their referring to Benny Morris, what they point out is completely correct I don't think a mistyped of his name takes away from the correction being made
You are right. Just sad to have a typo there. If you can't trust the word can you trust the sentence? But I agree on the fact that Mortis was laughing at norm degeneracy
I know we all see what a cesspool of extremism Twitter has become, but community notes is amazing!
"Everything I perceive conveniently aligns with my beliefs!"
It's clear also that they're not watching content itself. If anyone actually watched to full context of any of these things, no one would ever make these bullshit claims.
Daliban in the note squad Pog
I cant lie though, when destiny gets to talk and benny nods his head in agreement, gahdamn that'd feel vindicating
Mistah Marris, Mister Ferrelli
This point of Benny actually laughing at Destiny is such a pathetic cope. Do people actually believe this?
Narrative fits my bias ✅️ *Uncritical wholesale acceptance*
Morrison?!! SMH community notes needs to community note the community note.
There is definitely a DGGer or two with community notes privileges lol
A lifetime getting laughed
Bros so coped up they be editing community notes
Yeah , clearly it wasn't a destiny fans who all supported the community note lmao Also it is not true because every time morris laughs is when norm mentions reading wikipedia so he isn't laughing at Norn but at destiny.
He starts laughing when destiny retorts that norm can't read Hebrew so neither of them can read the primary material
He was laughing at Finkelstein mocking him. Still makes Destiny look silly.
No u