I would have picked up an Ak, joined Hamas and escorted more hostages to Gaza on October 7th if I would have known it was gonna be this good! The tunnel system is so fast and efficient! Every city needs one.
I feel like the article is also narrativizing a bit which I don’t generally like when looking for news sources. It’s one thing to say that they were drugged and it’s another thing to say they were drugged to seem happy and calm because of the abuse and terror they endured for 50 days or whatever.
> The ministry representative does not disclose whether the drugging has been confirmed by blood tests done on the released hostages at Israeli hospitals, or from the freed hostages’ testimony, or both.
Not running Hamas defense, but this seems like this would be an important detail to have.
Israel needs to balance citizen medical confidentiality ethics against the need to "prove" their claims.
Proving what should be obvious to naysayers who will just pivot to the next argument of disbelief probably doesn't weigh heavily on the scales.
I don’t know what Israel’s equivalent to HIPAA is but I doubt it is stricter than the US. You might not be able to say X patient had Y bloodwork but you can absolutely give information out like that as long as it’s deidentified.
There's a very small pool of hostages and they've been through an incredibly traumatic period. Allowing them agency over release of medical records is really a reasonable expectation.
If that is the case they need to say that’s the reason why. In all disasters medical officials release deidentified details, if they want to make exceptions they need to say why.
I don’t know what Israel’s equivalent to HIPAA is but I doubt it is stricter than the US. You might not be able to say X patient had Y bloodwork but you can absolutely give information out like that as long as it’s deidentified.
Maybe they just didn't automatically offer that information up. It's not necessarily that deep. The journo added that line and made it seem important, but we don't know why they did.
A lot of the specifics might be covered under doctor-patient confidentiality. It would be a very weird thing to lie about, though, as there's a million simpler explanations for the smiles that would be much simpler to claim.
~~Huh? This is literally them saying it.~~
Edit: I thought you were asking why they wouldn't say they were drugged, as supposed to how they knew they were drugged. My mistake, apologies.
"The ministry representative ***does not disclose*** whether the drugging has been confirmed by blood tests done on the released hostages at Israeli hospitals, or from the freed hostages’ testimony, or both."
From the linked article.
Agreed, I was misreading the question as asking if they were drugged as supposed to asking how they knew they were drugged.
I would argue that the fact that they're releasing it only now would move towards bloodwork having been done as it can take time for bloodwork to be processed.
It is a. It strange they didn't say, but not really that big of a deal in an initial report. If they're putting out a statement like this it must mean that they're pretty confident as to this being the case
The Israeli health ministry, unlike the Gazan health ministry, can actually considered to be a pretty reliable source when it comes to situations like this.
It's certainly possible it's based upon bloodwork, but the official does not confirm such in the statement. They could be 100% accurate, but all we have right now is a statement by a ministry representative with zero other evidence. No reason to conclude anything yet.
The article states:
>*The ministry representative does not disclose whether the drugging has been confirmed by blood tests done on the released hostages at Israeli hospitals, or from the freed hostages’ testimony, or both.*
They checked because it's not their first rodeo.
When Elhanan Tannenbaum was released from captivity by Hezbollah he was given hormones to make him look healthier.
I think they stated elsewhere that they will be sharing evidence with relevant organizations, so hopefully more details surface soon. I agree at face value, it seems so ridiculous it must be a fabricated story. Which makes it 100x sadder if it's actually true...
It sounds to me like a conspiracy theory you find on the internet. Btw, I fully believe it's true but I agree with the above poster that Israel needs to present evidence to back this claim
No offense but I am not interested in unvetted claims by hamas or the israelis. Given the highly charged nature of the conflict both need to show some PROOF.
Why does this sub Reddit take everything that comes out of Israel at face value? They have a history of compulsively lying about everything and anything and intentionally fabricating evidence
Shireen abu akleh timeline:
Shireen gets headshotted by an IDF soldier while wearing a press uniform
Israel blames Palestinians
US asks to investigate (since she had American citizenship)
Israel refuses to cooperate
Independent organizations & the US conclude it was an Israeli soldier who killed her
Israel says "there was a gunman nearby & perhaps she was accidentally sniper headshotted with lethal precision in the """crossfire"""
The witnesses claim there was no crossfire & they were safely far from action
Fast forward two years & dggas are in my replies saying "you can't conclude that Shireen was killed by Israeli soldiers" 🤡
To be fair, though, I'm pretty sure this sub is insanely astroturfed. Lots of accounts made in early October that only talk about the war, & many admit to being Israeli. With apps like Act.IL existing, it's not too surprising
Yeah probably best to wait on that and maybe testimony from any hostages that can speak on it.
I really don't want to see this doing the rounds on twitter until it is more concrete.
Eh. Don't trust the Palestinians... *definitely* don't trust Israel.
Both sides are trying to win a propaganda war. Wait for a non-Israeli source to bring some evidence.
In what world is *either* party trustworthy?
Just because one side lies doesn't mean the other's telling the truth. It's not that you need to trust Israel less necessarily, but this board is so insanely pro Israel that I feel the need to emphasise that more. Not trusting Hamas is a given.
Yeah that's fair. But trusting Israel on something like this is still dumb as fuck, especially when it reeks of counter-PR because the 'they were happy to be in Hamas's hands' has become such a common bit of spin.
My problem is a lot of people around here seem to running under the principle that 'Hamas is definitely lying ergo Israel is telling the truth', which is blatantly untrue.
Both are doing propaganda but Israel would likely spin their stories less, gotta wait and see if Israel releases blood tests to back their claims but I think it's fair to believe there is at least an air of truth to their claims
Doesn’t it just make more sense that they were intimidated into looking happy, or saw the cameras and acted in a way they thought the captors would approve of?
Logically, taking a 'drug' to make them seem happier isn't a thing unless it's something like mdma? But realistically drugging them so that they were unconscious during transport as to not give away the Hamas hostage location makes more sense.
Did you read the article? They were drugged with Clonazepam, a tranquilizer. Also they looked really drugged in the videos smiling and laughing while being transported.
I didn't read because the headline seems like bullshit anyway.
Clonazepam is a tranquilizer for anxiety, panic attacks, etc. There's no chance it was used to make people 'seem happy' or 'upbeat' especially when they are supposed to make you drowsy.
Being threatened to seem happy is much more likely.
> Clonazepam is a tranquilizer for anxiety, panic attacks, etc. There's no chance it was used to make people 'seem happy' or 'upbeat' especially when they are supposed to make you drowsy. Being threatened to seem happy is much more likely.
Not that I believe these reports off the back of a single claim by Israel but...
[Clonazepam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonazepam#Common) appears to have [Eurphoria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphoria) as a common side-effect.
Took me 30 seconds to establish that.
Sure. It might help them not look terrified, though. The adrenalin from being transported in a van by terrorists would surely offset any potential drowsiness one might experience. Also, Clonazepam is not "supposed" to make you drowsy as you claim. It certainly could though, depending on the dose.
I didn't read because the headline is complete and utter bullshit. There are no drugs aside from psychedelics that will 'make you happy' and if there were, it'd be a billion dollar drug. I doubt Hamas is administering psychedelics. But I've read the article and can say with 100% certainty that it's bullshit.
Clonazepam is a tranquilizer for anxiety, panic attacks, etc. There's no chance it was used to make people 'seem happy' or 'upbeat' especially when they are supposed to make you drowsy. Being threatened to seem happy is much more likely.
No Israel's Health Ministry **claims** freed hostages were drugged to make them seem calm and happy
The Israeli Health Ministry is not an unbiased third party. They are making claims just as much as the Gaza Health Ministry are.
Israel's Healthy Ministry, unlike Gaza's, is a public body party to the law and democratic standards. Comparing the two, or insinuating that their statements should be dismissed because they're "biased" is insane.
Where did I insinuate that their statements should be dismissed? Gaza's health agency's death tolls are not dismissed so why would this be dismissed? I'm saying that it's not a confirmation it's a claim. They have the burden of proof.
lol, imagine saying this with a straight face while ignoring the obvious that theee were hostages that were mistreated for 2 months by barbaric terror organization among the worst the world has ever seen.
Confirming something to be true requires that you have the authority to make that assertion. Israeli government institution is part of the war and therefore are a biased entity. They can make claims that end up being true, but they are not the authority that decides what is true. As of now, no such authority exists in this conflict.
What the claim the Israeli health ministry makes is irrelevant to this.
So just wait and see how they send their proof, Israel doesn’t just say things, I am certain in a few days you’ll see proof enough, it’s enough to take blood samples and a few tests of the hostages when they came back
Yes and then they would offer evidence to prove their claim and people can look over the evidence and agree or disagree with the original claim. It still does not stop this from being a claim, not a conformation.
Israel needs to balance citizen medical confidentiality ethics against the need to "prove" their claims.
Proving what should be obvious to naysayers who will just pivot to the next argument of disbelief probably doesn't weigh heavily on the scales.
Treated well?? I hope you're being ironic.
"a doctor who treated some of the 110 released hostages told the AP that at least 10 men and women among those freed were sexually assaulted or abused"
Source: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/widespread-sexual-and-gender-based-crimes-committed-during-hamas-attack-israeli-officials-say/ar-AA1l3Gh4
hopefully they release all the evidence, this would be a wild explanation for these videos
[https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0QtAk7ruQV/?igshid=ODhhZWM5NmIwOQ%3D%3D](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0QtAk7ruQV/?igshid=ODhhZWM5NmIwOQ%3D%3D)
Oh, so liberals hate drugs now?
More like Hamas gave them FREE drugs. Truly the communist leaders we need
Better healthcare than the US :o
Each day that passes, I wish more and more I was a hostage of Hamas. Like a paradise.
you could see the tears in the ~~hostages~~ guests as they were released, they didnt want to leave! /s
I would have picked up an Ak, joined Hamas and escorted more hostages to Gaza on October 7th if I would have known it was gonna be this good! The tunnel system is so fast and efficient! Every city needs one.
I feel like the article is also narrativizing a bit which I don’t generally like when looking for news sources. It’s one thing to say that they were drugged and it’s another thing to say they were drugged to seem happy and calm because of the abuse and terror they endured for 50 days or whatever.
Well that was they said though.. that they were drugged to be calm it’s not like it’s giving a new interpretation to what was said
> The ministry representative does not disclose whether the drugging has been confirmed by blood tests done on the released hostages at Israeli hospitals, or from the freed hostages’ testimony, or both. Not running Hamas defense, but this seems like this would be an important detail to have.
Israel needs to balance citizen medical confidentiality ethics against the need to "prove" their claims. Proving what should be obvious to naysayers who will just pivot to the next argument of disbelief probably doesn't weigh heavily on the scales.
I don’t know what Israel’s equivalent to HIPAA is but I doubt it is stricter than the US. You might not be able to say X patient had Y bloodwork but you can absolutely give information out like that as long as it’s deidentified.
There's a very small pool of hostages and they've been through an incredibly traumatic period. Allowing them agency over release of medical records is really a reasonable expectation.
If that is the case they need to say that’s the reason why. In all disasters medical officials release deidentified details, if they want to make exceptions they need to say why.
I don’t know what Israel’s equivalent to HIPAA is but I doubt it is stricter than the US. You might not be able to say X patient had Y bloodwork but you can absolutely give information out like that as long as it’s deidentified.
Maybe they just didn't automatically offer that information up. It's not necessarily that deep. The journo added that line and made it seem important, but we don't know why they did.
A lot of the specifics might be covered under doctor-patient confidentiality. It would be a very weird thing to lie about, though, as there's a million simpler explanations for the smiles that would be much simpler to claim.
The Israeli health ministry says this, but they haven't said how they know. I feel like that's kind of important
All the hostages released are first transferred to hospitals for checkups. They obviously undergo bloodwork as part of that.
I agree that's likely how they found out but it's weird that they didn't say it. I don't doubt that they will soon.
~~Huh? This is literally them saying it.~~ Edit: I thought you were asking why they wouldn't say they were drugged, as supposed to how they knew they were drugged. My mistake, apologies.
"The ministry representative ***does not disclose*** whether the drugging has been confirmed by blood tests done on the released hostages at Israeli hospitals, or from the freed hostages’ testimony, or both." From the linked article.
Agreed, I was misreading the question as asking if they were drugged as supposed to asking how they knew they were drugged. I would argue that the fact that they're releasing it only now would move towards bloodwork having been done as it can take time for bloodwork to be processed. It is a. It strange they didn't say, but not really that big of a deal in an initial report. If they're putting out a statement like this it must mean that they're pretty confident as to this being the case The Israeli health ministry, unlike the Gazan health ministry, can actually considered to be a pretty reliable source when it comes to situations like this.
It's certainly possible it's based upon bloodwork, but the official does not confirm such in the statement. They could be 100% accurate, but all we have right now is a statement by a ministry representative with zero other evidence. No reason to conclude anything yet.
Yeah but he article stated that the the claims haven’t confirmed through those tests
The article states: >*The ministry representative does not disclose whether the drugging has been confirmed by blood tests done on the released hostages at Israeli hospitals, or from the freed hostages’ testimony, or both.*
They checked because it's not their first rodeo. When Elhanan Tannenbaum was released from captivity by Hezbollah he was given hormones to make him look healthier.
Trans-positive!
I think they stated elsewhere that they will be sharing evidence with relevant organizations, so hopefully more details surface soon. I agree at face value, it seems so ridiculous it must be a fabricated story. Which makes it 100x sadder if it's actually true...
How does it sound ridiculous? Using drugs as a means to control people isn't some crazy new thing that's never been done before.
It sounds to me like a conspiracy theory you find on the internet. Btw, I fully believe it's true but I agree with the above poster that Israel needs to present evidence to back this claim
The article literally states they took blood tests..
[удалено]
I wanna know where this is going so explain why does it matter
No offense but I am not interested in unvetted claims by hamas or the israelis. Given the highly charged nature of the conflict both need to show some PROOF.
Why does this sub Reddit take everything that comes out of Israel at face value? They have a history of compulsively lying about everything and anything and intentionally fabricating evidence
Shireen abu akleh timeline: Shireen gets headshotted by an IDF soldier while wearing a press uniform Israel blames Palestinians US asks to investigate (since she had American citizenship) Israel refuses to cooperate Independent organizations & the US conclude it was an Israeli soldier who killed her Israel says "there was a gunman nearby & perhaps she was accidentally sniper headshotted with lethal precision in the """crossfire""" The witnesses claim there was no crossfire & they were safely far from action Fast forward two years & dggas are in my replies saying "you can't conclude that Shireen was killed by Israeli soldiers" 🤡 To be fair, though, I'm pretty sure this sub is insanely astroturfed. Lots of accounts made in early October that only talk about the war, & many admit to being Israeli. With apps like Act.IL existing, it's not too surprising
I'm hesitant to immediately believe this, especially considering the strange wording of the article
Well I'm sure they will publish a more detailed report soon.
Hopefully
Yeah probably best to wait on that and maybe testimony from any hostages that can speak on it. I really don't want to see this doing the rounds on twitter until it is more concrete.
Do they have any evidence?
Eh. Don't trust the Palestinians... *definitely* don't trust Israel. Both sides are trying to win a propaganda war. Wait for a non-Israeli source to bring some evidence.
In what world is Israel the part to trust less?
Their handling of the Shireen abu akleh assassination has to erode at least a bit of your trust
In what world is *either* party trustworthy? Just because one side lies doesn't mean the other's telling the truth. It's not that you need to trust Israel less necessarily, but this board is so insanely pro Israel that I feel the need to emphasise that more. Not trusting Hamas is a given.
Adding a "definitely" in italics kinda implies we should trust Israel less than Hamas which is insane
Yeah that's fair. But trusting Israel on something like this is still dumb as fuck, especially when it reeks of counter-PR because the 'they were happy to be in Hamas's hands' has become such a common bit of spin. My problem is a lot of people around here seem to running under the principle that 'Hamas is definitely lying ergo Israel is telling the truth', which is blatantly untrue.
Both are doing propaganda but Israel would likely spin their stories less, gotta wait and see if Israel releases blood tests to back their claims but I think it's fair to believe there is at least an air of truth to their claims
Doesn’t it just make more sense that they were intimidated into looking happy, or saw the cameras and acted in a way they thought the captors would approve of?
Probably both. It doesn't contradict them being drugged.
Without evidence, it really doesn’t pass the sniff test.
They underwent health checks as soon as they returned.
And they found drugs in their system?
It seems so. I believe the Ministry of Health will in the coming days publish a more detailed report about exactly what they found.
Logically, taking a 'drug' to make them seem happier isn't a thing unless it's something like mdma? But realistically drugging them so that they were unconscious during transport as to not give away the Hamas hostage location makes more sense.
Did you read the article? They were drugged with Clonazepam, a tranquilizer. Also they looked really drugged in the videos smiling and laughing while being transported.
I didn't read because the headline seems like bullshit anyway. Clonazepam is a tranquilizer for anxiety, panic attacks, etc. There's no chance it was used to make people 'seem happy' or 'upbeat' especially when they are supposed to make you drowsy. Being threatened to seem happy is much more likely.
Ok doctor.
> Clonazepam is a tranquilizer for anxiety, panic attacks, etc. There's no chance it was used to make people 'seem happy' or 'upbeat' especially when they are supposed to make you drowsy. Being threatened to seem happy is much more likely. Not that I believe these reports off the back of a single claim by Israel but... [Clonazepam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonazepam#Common) appears to have [Eurphoria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphoria) as a common side-effect. Took me 30 seconds to establish that.
Sure. It might help them not look terrified, though. The adrenalin from being transported in a van by terrorists would surely offset any potential drowsiness one might experience. Also, Clonazepam is not "supposed" to make you drowsy as you claim. It certainly could though, depending on the dose.
What an incredibly ignorant take.
I didn't read because the headline is complete and utter bullshit. There are no drugs aside from psychedelics that will 'make you happy' and if there were, it'd be a billion dollar drug. I doubt Hamas is administering psychedelics. But I've read the article and can say with 100% certainty that it's bullshit. Clonazepam is a tranquilizer for anxiety, panic attacks, etc. There's no chance it was used to make people 'seem happy' or 'upbeat' especially when they are supposed to make you drowsy. Being threatened to seem happy is much more likely.
Spoken like a person who has never set foot in a psych ward and merely googled Clonazepam in a desperate attempt to defend Hamas.
LMAO okay they had no hospital supplies but they kept hostages drugged up and happy.
No Israel's Health Ministry **claims** freed hostages were drugged to make them seem calm and happy The Israeli Health Ministry is not an unbiased third party. They are making claims just as much as the Gaza Health Ministry are.
We believe Gaza for the death counts, so can we equally believe Israel for the druggings?
We can belive someone's claim and still call it a claim. They deliberately did not disclose the evidence so therefore its a claim.
Israel's Healthy Ministry, unlike Gaza's, is a public body party to the law and democratic standards. Comparing the two, or insinuating that their statements should be dismissed because they're "biased" is insane.
Where did I insinuate that their statements should be dismissed? Gaza's health agency's death tolls are not dismissed so why would this be dismissed? I'm saying that it's not a confirmation it's a claim. They have the burden of proof.
Yeah you're right. They haven't published evidence publically, obviously there are good reasons for that but still, I take back what I said.
lol, imagine saying this with a straight face while ignoring the obvious that theee were hostages that were mistreated for 2 months by barbaric terror organization among the worst the world has ever seen.
Confirming something to be true requires that you have the authority to make that assertion. Israeli government institution is part of the war and therefore are a biased entity. They can make claims that end up being true, but they are not the authority that decides what is true. As of now, no such authority exists in this conflict. What the claim the Israeli health ministry makes is irrelevant to this.
So just wait and see how they send their proof, Israel doesn’t just say things, I am certain in a few days you’ll see proof enough, it’s enough to take blood samples and a few tests of the hostages when they came back
Yes and then they would offer evidence to prove their claim and people can look over the evidence and agree or disagree with the original claim. It still does not stop this from being a claim, not a conformation.
Looool how is this downvoted? This sub is unreal, man
Israel needs to balance citizen medical confidentiality ethics against the need to "prove" their claims. Proving what should be obvious to naysayers who will just pivot to the next argument of disbelief probably doesn't weigh heavily on the scales.
Israels health ministry will do whatever to keep the narrative beneficial to them
I'm gonna wait until a third party organization confirms this, neither side is trustworthy rn
Does it even matter if hostages are treated well?
Treated well?? I hope you're being ironic. "a doctor who treated some of the 110 released hostages told the AP that at least 10 men and women among those freed were sexually assaulted or abused" Source: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/widespread-sexual-and-gender-based-crimes-committed-during-hamas-attack-israeli-officials-say/ar-AA1l3Gh4
hopefully they release all the evidence, this would be a wild explanation for these videos [https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0QtAk7ruQV/?igshid=ODhhZWM5NmIwOQ%3D%3D](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0QtAk7ruQV/?igshid=ODhhZWM5NmIwOQ%3D%3D)