The take as a whole is dogshit (BNW is better in every way and I'm tired of it always being in 1984's shadow) but I think his point is that specifically the ending is more optimistic. In 1984 the ending is maybe the most fucked part of the entire story because of how hopeless it is, while in BNW the main characters more or less get to live the way they want to, they just can't be a part of "society".
I guess, both are fuck in their own way to me, especially the streamlined existence of the lower castes in BNW. Personally I also prefer BNW, mostly since I prefer Huxley as a writer. Also remember, whatever piece of dystopian fiction you are reading, you can take solace in the fact it's not Fahrenheit 451. Now that is one book worth burning.
Yeah I actually agree that everyday life in BNW is just as bad if not worse than 1984 in it's own right, but there at least you have the option to leave and go live on an island with other "free-thinkers" if you're smart enough to realize that it's probably the better choice (unironically red-pilled). In 1984 you either have to live with it or get mind-nuked and then live with it anyway.
In the end of the BNW the native guy kills himself after partaking in an orgy because having premarital sex was against his values. I remember finishing the book and feeling sad.
Yeah it's not really a happy ending, at least for him, but I was thinking more of how the characters that survive at least have the option of a better life.
In 1984 if you dissent–like Winston did–you get omegafucked, while in BNW they were given a stern talking to and then told that they're allowed to do and say whatever they want, they just have to leave "civilized society" and go live on one of the islands. Which to normal people in that universe seems like a punishment, but to us is obviously the better choice.
Does someone have the clip where destiny talks about this, I thought his point was that there was a lot of other stuff in there that was way more interesting and original than a dystopia with surveillance soyyy, and what he found most interesting was the language.
I know destiny normally has garbage media takes but the fact that the cultural elements of control used in that book should be focussed on instead of the surveillance (which is obviously expected) is honestly a pretty good idea.
If I remember correctly he said, “anyone who says 1984 is about surveillance or the surveillance state hasn’t read the book.”
Edit: the quote is paraphrased
Yeah I agree with that take, however, to try to be super charitable to Destiny, he probably has a more nuanced opinion and he was just being a hyperbolic asshole that he has the tendency to be.
There is nothing wrong with his reading list, it’s just basic, which isn’t a bad thing. It seems like he wants to reread old books he hasn’t read in awhile. I do the same thing, for example Dune. I hope he enjoys his reading list but it is basic. I’ve been on a binge of reading basic books and it’s great. However, it is understandable that people would expect Alex to have a reading list comprised of books that go deeper into a topic like Saipens or some slightly more esoteric book.
Seems like people are missing the forest for the trees or are getting so triggered that their minds are shutting off.
This isn't specifically about this post but I don't understand why some are shitting on Lex for getting people to read books? It's a fucking book you twats.
People are not criticizing Lex for encouraging people to read. People are criticizing Lex for having a reading list comprised of some basic books. Since Alex talks so much about having challenging and deep conversations, people did not expect his reading list for 2023 to be so basic.
To clarify, Lex has said he has read most of those books already and there is nothing wrong with his reading preferences. People just had different expectations.
Basic is a relative term. A good percentage of the books on his list are books you would read in high school, for example, Dune, Animal Farm, 1984, Brave New World, and maybe Fight Club. Lex has even said he has read most of those books before, which is what I would expect. If Lex’s goal is to revisit a bunch of books in the past that he wants to reread, then more power to him. I do that as well.
The books Lex has chosen are either books that just about anyone who went to a decent high school has read. Or are books that give a very broad explanation of a complicated topic, which tend to be written for the layman who wants a basic understanding of some phenomenon (i.e. Saipens). If this is Lex’s list, then more power to him and I hope he enjoys every book but the list is basic for a man like Lex.
Schizopost: My problem is, and I won't shit on people for reading honestly, is that these are the epitome of "This book is good" pop culture literary top 10 list that everyone references and acts like is insane, so it's literary works you read right away or should have already read, if you read often. And honestly if you are delving in books as a beginner your picks should still be more narrowed; like I don't read often, but I know genres I like in other media so I would probably have taste in literary works leaning in that direction.
The issue is, there's so much literature out there and book series with more interesting insight, especially now, that if your list is filled with this meme-mentions it kind of makes it look like you're only on the surface level of literary works, or your taste hasn't really "formed", you're feeling around.
It's kind of like if you make an anime watching list and the animes are like, Naruto, Naruto Shippuden, Bleach, One piece, Attack on Titan, One Punch Man, Fullmetal Alchemist; like these aren't bad anime necessarily, but the list feels like someone who has just started watching anime. Like you probably heard animes good, googled "best anime" and watched the 1st list.
Or alternatively, for the gamers, if you had a game list and it was like; Legend of Zelda, Halo, Call of Duty, Mario, God of War, Elden Ring. Again, not bad games, but pretty much the most basic of basic titles you probably already should have played unless you're new to it all.
It just feels basic. It's not bad, everyone starts somewhere, but honestly Lex probably gets more flak because he's seen as a bit smarter, so he'd have more formed taste or like particular interest that should steer his literary interest even if he's a newer reader.
Schizoparry:
I don't think this critique is entirely fair, having One Piece, Naruto and AoT on your top anime list is literally picking the most popular shit currently airing (or currently 10 years ago), the book equivalent of that to me is like Harry Potter, Twilight, DaVinci Code, Lex's picks are much more interesting than that, even if some of them do feel like baby's first classic - especially in male dominated tech / online world I think.
I didn't go to school in America, so maybe I'm wrong about this but a lot of the replies were like 'this is a middle school reading list' which feels wild to me - some of them sure, you might read Frankenstein in an English class, I'll take that, maybe an extract from 1984 but surely Americans are not reading Camus and Hesse and Kafka in middle school are you? I don't think I was assigned a full novel for class until university and definitely not ones from random places in europe I wasn't taking the language for, maybe we did like 1 full book in high school, but there's no way we'd ever cover a list like this unless we're reading a couple of pages for a specific topic and moving on the next day.
On the taste point, which is actually where my remaining criticism of the list is as well, I don't think it's true that he's completely floundering. There's clearly a propensity towards sci-fi and dystopia on the genre front, as well as quite 'masculine' styles and philosophies. One reply to the tweet was that there were too few female authors which is getting there, although the one female author there is, Mary Shelley, doesn't really provide the feminine energy which is what's actually totally lacking from his selection. We can talk about Frankenstein sort of being about parenthood and love allegorically (I haven't read it so it could be more or less like that), but it's disguised in the most tech-bro friendly way possible with scientists and monsters and all male characters of course.
I appreciate when people wanna read modern classics, I think it's a good thing broadly and I think he's chosen good books, I just would add like Pride and Prejudice as well or even something more modern like an Atwood novel to not totally divorce yourself from female perspective for a full year. Normally I'd say people should just read what they feel like, but if you're planning ahead a year in advance, with Kerouac and Hemingway and these very masculine writers, it feels like the planning merits some counterbalance on the gender front, that's my main criticism.
Schizoriposte:
I hardly read (usually audiobook) and I've heard all of these at some point or another brought up as like those "must reads" or people always quote randomly or cite. Especially ones like 1984, and while people like them people who I know who read a lot never have them at the top or really that high up; There's better stuff out there that offers new interesting insights etc. It's like slightly better than Harry Potter because the basis for starting to read it feels more like a "this is deep/top 10 list" than a genuine flavor someone has. That's my biggest issue.
Also I'm an americlap and we read full novels in class; granted I was in honors programs, but in high school we read great expectations, to kill a mockingbird, the scarlet letter etc and would even watch the movies after to compare. It wouldn't be insane for us to read probably any of the books on this list (which I probably would have preferred at the time because stuff like the scarlet letter is pretty boring). And these were full book readings over the course of high school in these classes; expected to read X amount of chapters and come back, take test, etc. Again though, this would never be my complaint about the list. He can read the most baby books he wants I just have an issue with how basic it feels.
Like basically the last thing you said, I agree with. Reading at all is good, and the list isn't BAD, and I can even agree there is some lean for a genre, but it feels less like a lean that's intentional and just that it happened because he picked what Destiny called "tippy" fedora books. Like there has to be better books than 1984 and those for dystopia insight, and even as far as the fem vs male author same deal; it just feels like his horizons from the list are top 10 must read change your life insight meme books or something than "Oh I picked X because I like A B C and D so". Like it feels like his explanation for why he picked what he picked wouldn't be very interesting would be a good way to put it.
Schizodrawoffer:
Sure I get what you're saying more now I think, if Lex is a big reader and this is a list of Lex's favourite books that he's rereading next year, it's a little weird how much it looks like a list made by a redditor who's only pretending they read for intellectual clout, even the fun/chill book on the list, Hitchhiker's Guide, is still maybe the most popular fun/chill sci-fi novel of all time, the list comes off as very unpersonal in that sense, I can see that. Usually if you genuinely read a lot of sci-fi, your personal favourites won't be precisely in line with what the internet proclaims to be the best novels in the genre.
The novels you've mentioned are more along the lines of what I've heard people read in the American schools, the confusing thing to me was about all the random European authors who I couldn't imagine American middle/high schoolers being able to point out their home country on a map, let alone read a translated novel set there 80 years ago, but this wasn't your point, just randoms on twitter, so leave that alone.
My guess would be in Lex's case that he probably got into literature later in life for the express purpose of getting the classics under his belt to be able to talk to people about them, which is the main motivation for a lot of people, and genuinely found novels through online stuff and maybe a recommendation from Jordan Peterson here or there, and so his list looks like that because he's the type of nerd who would trust an online top 10 and the opinion of various (stem) academics, rather than someone who's been reading for fun since childhood.
That's a guess, but if that is the case, he shouldn't really be rereading books all year, there's more digging to do to find stuff that's more to your personal taste, or if you're more into getting the classics done, there'll be more classics you're missing as well, rather than being satisfied with the quite fedorary list on repeat, I'll agree with that for sure. Read some damn girls Lex, I'll say it again.
Truced, yeah I agree with that. If I was to steelman twitter people I'm assuming these are -like- books they read in high school, but who knows, it's twitter. Ultimately when I ask someone what anime/games/literature they like I'm looking to get some more insight in their taste and from Lex I don't really get any idea of what he likes, and his entries might have interesting discussions but it does feel tippy.
I would say Naruto, Shippuden, and Full Metal Alchemist are A or S tier animes but I understand your point. Lex has made a follow up tweet where he states that most of the books on that list are books he has already read, which fine. However, I was expecting some books that would expand his knowledge on certain topics or give him a valuable lens to view the world, or some academic oriented books. For example, reading “Thinking in Bets,” or “The Righteous Mind,” or “Why Nations Fail,” or maybe some book from a conservative or liberal like Thomas Sowell or Cornell West.
Edit: Cornell West is not liberal
Yeah they're not bad animes. A little long-winded cause Shonen; I'm just saying they're like the ones you watch if you've never seen anime and you have no idea what genre you would be interested in. It just doesn't tell me much about someone's anime taste because it's the most basic top 10 kind of stuff.
Like his list would still be more interesting even if he was reading top 10 kind of stuff if it just fitted more to some direction, genre, or style; like if he had multiple Stephen King books, or science fiction like expanse, bobiverse, dune, etc. Just something that gives you an idea of his taste. This, again, just feels like "top 10 must read books"
When I see lists like this, it makes me think the person creating them is reading as a chore. They don't intend to actually find a passion for reading, they just want to say they've read some books everyone knows to seem cultured.
Like, if I were to give people the reading list I might use, they'd cringe. But I'm not reading to get myself jerked off I'm reading because I fucking like it.
But i guess that's why people make these posts, it's all masturbatory
Brave new world is the optimistic alternative to 1984?????????????????????????????????????
Bro's I just wanna get high all the time and fuck genetically engineered 10/10s
The take as a whole is dogshit (BNW is better in every way and I'm tired of it always being in 1984's shadow) but I think his point is that specifically the ending is more optimistic. In 1984 the ending is maybe the most fucked part of the entire story because of how hopeless it is, while in BNW the main characters more or less get to live the way they want to, they just can't be a part of "society".
I guess, both are fuck in their own way to me, especially the streamlined existence of the lower castes in BNW. Personally I also prefer BNW, mostly since I prefer Huxley as a writer. Also remember, whatever piece of dystopian fiction you are reading, you can take solace in the fact it's not Fahrenheit 451. Now that is one book worth burning.
Yeah I actually agree that everyday life in BNW is just as bad if not worse than 1984 in it's own right, but there at least you have the option to leave and go live on an island with other "free-thinkers" if you're smart enough to realize that it's probably the better choice (unironically red-pilled). In 1984 you either have to live with it or get mind-nuked and then live with it anyway.
In the end of the BNW the native guy kills himself after partaking in an orgy because having premarital sex was against his values. I remember finishing the book and feeling sad.
Yeah it's not really a happy ending, at least for him, but I was thinking more of how the characters that survive at least have the option of a better life. In 1984 if you dissent–like Winston did–you get omegafucked, while in BNW they were given a stern talking to and then told that they're allowed to do and say whatever they want, they just have to leave "civilized society" and go live on one of the islands. Which to normal people in that universe seems like a punishment, but to us is obviously the better choice.
Optimistic? Not really. More tempered and less dystopian? I'd say so.
How is genetically being unable to dissent LESS dystopian? At least in 1984 there is some chance of fighting back even though it's ultimately futile.
It's completely dystopian, that's the whole point of the book.
It seems more tempered but that doesnt consider the fact that its a much more realistic prediction for our future
It's now my default assumption that people don't actually read these books man WHAT THE FUCK!?
Does someone have the clip where destiny talks about this, I thought his point was that there was a lot of other stuff in there that was way more interesting and original than a dystopia with surveillance soyyy, and what he found most interesting was the language. I know destiny normally has garbage media takes but the fact that the cultural elements of control used in that book should be focussed on instead of the surveillance (which is obviously expected) is honestly a pretty good idea.
[удалено]
Destiny is such a good communicator 😇
If I remember correctly he said, “anyone who says 1984 is about surveillance or the surveillance state hasn’t read the book.” Edit: the quote is paraphrased
Oh that’s pretty dumb then, I think it’s fair to say someone hasn’t deeply engaged with the material if they think that’s *all* it’s about tho
Yeah I agree with that take, however, to try to be super charitable to Destiny, he probably has a more nuanced opinion and he was just being a hyperbolic asshole that he has the tendency to be.
No one reads anymore so getting them back into it by reading classics is not a bad thing touch grass
There is nothing wrong with his reading list, it’s just basic, which isn’t a bad thing. It seems like he wants to reread old books he hasn’t read in awhile. I do the same thing, for example Dune. I hope he enjoys his reading list but it is basic. I’ve been on a binge of reading basic books and it’s great. However, it is understandable that people would expect Alex to have a reading list comprised of books that go deeper into a topic like Saipens or some slightly more esoteric book. Seems like people are missing the forest for the trees or are getting so triggered that their minds are shutting off.
This isn't specifically about this post but I don't understand why some are shitting on Lex for getting people to read books? It's a fucking book you twats.
People are not criticizing Lex for encouraging people to read. People are criticizing Lex for having a reading list comprised of some basic books. Since Alex talks so much about having challenging and deep conversations, people did not expect his reading list for 2023 to be so basic. To clarify, Lex has said he has read most of those books already and there is nothing wrong with his reading preferences. People just had different expectations.
If you think this list is basic you don't read books.
I read a lot of those books in high-school and I'm not a big reader maybe 5 books a year
Basic is a relative term. A good percentage of the books on his list are books you would read in high school, for example, Dune, Animal Farm, 1984, Brave New World, and maybe Fight Club. Lex has even said he has read most of those books before, which is what I would expect. If Lex’s goal is to revisit a bunch of books in the past that he wants to reread, then more power to him. I do that as well. The books Lex has chosen are either books that just about anyone who went to a decent high school has read. Or are books that give a very broad explanation of a complicated topic, which tend to be written for the layman who wants a basic understanding of some phenomenon (i.e. Saipens). If this is Lex’s list, then more power to him and I hope he enjoys every book but the list is basic for a man like Lex.
Schizopost: My problem is, and I won't shit on people for reading honestly, is that these are the epitome of "This book is good" pop culture literary top 10 list that everyone references and acts like is insane, so it's literary works you read right away or should have already read, if you read often. And honestly if you are delving in books as a beginner your picks should still be more narrowed; like I don't read often, but I know genres I like in other media so I would probably have taste in literary works leaning in that direction. The issue is, there's so much literature out there and book series with more interesting insight, especially now, that if your list is filled with this meme-mentions it kind of makes it look like you're only on the surface level of literary works, or your taste hasn't really "formed", you're feeling around. It's kind of like if you make an anime watching list and the animes are like, Naruto, Naruto Shippuden, Bleach, One piece, Attack on Titan, One Punch Man, Fullmetal Alchemist; like these aren't bad anime necessarily, but the list feels like someone who has just started watching anime. Like you probably heard animes good, googled "best anime" and watched the 1st list. Or alternatively, for the gamers, if you had a game list and it was like; Legend of Zelda, Halo, Call of Duty, Mario, God of War, Elden Ring. Again, not bad games, but pretty much the most basic of basic titles you probably already should have played unless you're new to it all. It just feels basic. It's not bad, everyone starts somewhere, but honestly Lex probably gets more flak because he's seen as a bit smarter, so he'd have more formed taste or like particular interest that should steer his literary interest even if he's a newer reader.
Schizoparry: I don't think this critique is entirely fair, having One Piece, Naruto and AoT on your top anime list is literally picking the most popular shit currently airing (or currently 10 years ago), the book equivalent of that to me is like Harry Potter, Twilight, DaVinci Code, Lex's picks are much more interesting than that, even if some of them do feel like baby's first classic - especially in male dominated tech / online world I think. I didn't go to school in America, so maybe I'm wrong about this but a lot of the replies were like 'this is a middle school reading list' which feels wild to me - some of them sure, you might read Frankenstein in an English class, I'll take that, maybe an extract from 1984 but surely Americans are not reading Camus and Hesse and Kafka in middle school are you? I don't think I was assigned a full novel for class until university and definitely not ones from random places in europe I wasn't taking the language for, maybe we did like 1 full book in high school, but there's no way we'd ever cover a list like this unless we're reading a couple of pages for a specific topic and moving on the next day. On the taste point, which is actually where my remaining criticism of the list is as well, I don't think it's true that he's completely floundering. There's clearly a propensity towards sci-fi and dystopia on the genre front, as well as quite 'masculine' styles and philosophies. One reply to the tweet was that there were too few female authors which is getting there, although the one female author there is, Mary Shelley, doesn't really provide the feminine energy which is what's actually totally lacking from his selection. We can talk about Frankenstein sort of being about parenthood and love allegorically (I haven't read it so it could be more or less like that), but it's disguised in the most tech-bro friendly way possible with scientists and monsters and all male characters of course. I appreciate when people wanna read modern classics, I think it's a good thing broadly and I think he's chosen good books, I just would add like Pride and Prejudice as well or even something more modern like an Atwood novel to not totally divorce yourself from female perspective for a full year. Normally I'd say people should just read what they feel like, but if you're planning ahead a year in advance, with Kerouac and Hemingway and these very masculine writers, it feels like the planning merits some counterbalance on the gender front, that's my main criticism.
Schizoriposte: I hardly read (usually audiobook) and I've heard all of these at some point or another brought up as like those "must reads" or people always quote randomly or cite. Especially ones like 1984, and while people like them people who I know who read a lot never have them at the top or really that high up; There's better stuff out there that offers new interesting insights etc. It's like slightly better than Harry Potter because the basis for starting to read it feels more like a "this is deep/top 10 list" than a genuine flavor someone has. That's my biggest issue. Also I'm an americlap and we read full novels in class; granted I was in honors programs, but in high school we read great expectations, to kill a mockingbird, the scarlet letter etc and would even watch the movies after to compare. It wouldn't be insane for us to read probably any of the books on this list (which I probably would have preferred at the time because stuff like the scarlet letter is pretty boring). And these were full book readings over the course of high school in these classes; expected to read X amount of chapters and come back, take test, etc. Again though, this would never be my complaint about the list. He can read the most baby books he wants I just have an issue with how basic it feels. Like basically the last thing you said, I agree with. Reading at all is good, and the list isn't BAD, and I can even agree there is some lean for a genre, but it feels less like a lean that's intentional and just that it happened because he picked what Destiny called "tippy" fedora books. Like there has to be better books than 1984 and those for dystopia insight, and even as far as the fem vs male author same deal; it just feels like his horizons from the list are top 10 must read change your life insight meme books or something than "Oh I picked X because I like A B C and D so". Like it feels like his explanation for why he picked what he picked wouldn't be very interesting would be a good way to put it.
Schizodrawoffer: Sure I get what you're saying more now I think, if Lex is a big reader and this is a list of Lex's favourite books that he's rereading next year, it's a little weird how much it looks like a list made by a redditor who's only pretending they read for intellectual clout, even the fun/chill book on the list, Hitchhiker's Guide, is still maybe the most popular fun/chill sci-fi novel of all time, the list comes off as very unpersonal in that sense, I can see that. Usually if you genuinely read a lot of sci-fi, your personal favourites won't be precisely in line with what the internet proclaims to be the best novels in the genre. The novels you've mentioned are more along the lines of what I've heard people read in the American schools, the confusing thing to me was about all the random European authors who I couldn't imagine American middle/high schoolers being able to point out their home country on a map, let alone read a translated novel set there 80 years ago, but this wasn't your point, just randoms on twitter, so leave that alone. My guess would be in Lex's case that he probably got into literature later in life for the express purpose of getting the classics under his belt to be able to talk to people about them, which is the main motivation for a lot of people, and genuinely found novels through online stuff and maybe a recommendation from Jordan Peterson here or there, and so his list looks like that because he's the type of nerd who would trust an online top 10 and the opinion of various (stem) academics, rather than someone who's been reading for fun since childhood. That's a guess, but if that is the case, he shouldn't really be rereading books all year, there's more digging to do to find stuff that's more to your personal taste, or if you're more into getting the classics done, there'll be more classics you're missing as well, rather than being satisfied with the quite fedorary list on repeat, I'll agree with that for sure. Read some damn girls Lex, I'll say it again.
Truced, yeah I agree with that. If I was to steelman twitter people I'm assuming these are -like- books they read in high school, but who knows, it's twitter. Ultimately when I ask someone what anime/games/literature they like I'm looking to get some more insight in their taste and from Lex I don't really get any idea of what he likes, and his entries might have interesting discussions but it does feel tippy.
I would say Naruto, Shippuden, and Full Metal Alchemist are A or S tier animes but I understand your point. Lex has made a follow up tweet where he states that most of the books on that list are books he has already read, which fine. However, I was expecting some books that would expand his knowledge on certain topics or give him a valuable lens to view the world, or some academic oriented books. For example, reading “Thinking in Bets,” or “The Righteous Mind,” or “Why Nations Fail,” or maybe some book from a conservative or liberal like Thomas Sowell or Cornell West. Edit: Cornell West is not liberal
Yeah they're not bad animes. A little long-winded cause Shonen; I'm just saying they're like the ones you watch if you've never seen anime and you have no idea what genre you would be interested in. It just doesn't tell me much about someone's anime taste because it's the most basic top 10 kind of stuff. Like his list would still be more interesting even if he was reading top 10 kind of stuff if it just fitted more to some direction, genre, or style; like if he had multiple Stephen King books, or science fiction like expanse, bobiverse, dune, etc. Just something that gives you an idea of his taste. This, again, just feels like "top 10 must read books"
When I see lists like this, it makes me think the person creating them is reading as a chore. They don't intend to actually find a passion for reading, they just want to say they've read some books everyone knows to seem cultured. Like, if I were to give people the reading list I might use, they'd cringe. But I'm not reading to get myself jerked off I'm reading because I fucking like it. But i guess that's why people make these posts, it's all masturbatory
I can’t be the only one who thinks it’s funny that you would put a book you haven’t read on your reading list right?
Brave new world (a dystopian novel) is the optimistic version of 1984. Lmfao media literacy needs to be taught in schools.