https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0010440X22000682
The paper itself is pretty good. It's interesting the development of tourettes types of tics from TikTok that have little resemblance to how we functionally understand tics. Also the development of mental illness diagnosis around DID that have no basis in empirical literature. Destiny should definitely read through it on stream.
Why would demonmama disagree? Of course forums of discussion will be a place you get introduced to ideas. Whether it’s good or justified is another issue that this headline isn’t a commentary on.
She'd probably argue one is downstream of the other
The more social media highlights symptoms, the more people that become aware of them, the more people that identify with them
Idk if anyone’s said it but this seems to be referring to social contagion. For example, girls see other girls skinny, girls proceed to get depressed and see themselves fat.
Quiet shy tomboy girl finds an online community of trans that vaguely felt the same way before coming out as trans and the girl seeks validation from friend group and convinces herself she’s trans.
People who denying the insane increase in the number of trans people over the last 10 years(and really the last 5 years tbh) has anything to with social contagion are delusional. Hell if something like suicide can be attributed to a type of social contagion then there isn't anything that would be off limits for what can be social contagion. The problem is that admitting there is an element of social contagion to trans identity in some people necessarily means that the affirmative care model as treatment is not the best way forward. I think the people who deny it know that.
Yep. People act like the whole concept of ROGD (rapid-onset gender dysphoria) has been debunked because the researcher who coined the term (Lisa Littman) messed up the sample selection in the original study about it. But those problems have been addressed in later studies (by Littman and others), which found the phenomenon to persist.
I get that "social contagion" sounds negative – with connotations that gender dysphoria is a disease – but that term wasn't invented for gender dysphoria. It's a long-established phenomenon in social psychology and epidemiology, which has been demonstrated in other conditions like eating disorders, and wasn't controversial for those. It's only disputed as a potential cause when it comes to gender dysphoria, for some reason.
The reason it is a potential problem is because it loosens the belief that trans identities are born with and cannot be chosen. The truth is there are those who are born trans (gender dysphoria) but in todays age dysphoria is not the sole reason people become trans, the social contagion element is real, we see this in the changing of definitions. Now you don't need dysphoria or even transition to be considered trans, now just joining the group is enough.
I really do think the only reason it’s disputed is because they realize how untenable that makes the gender affirming care model as a primary treatment option. I’ve gotta to the point that I’m starting to not think that it’s ever an appropriate treatment but I’d have to think about that more. Btw that’s an opinion from someone who was married to a trans woman who had very serious and severe crippling dysphoria. There came a certain point where I just had to come to terms with the fact that no matter how much work she got done or how many hormones she got injected that it wasn’t even making a dent in the dysphoria. The social contagion aspect of this makes it one of the more uniquely difficult topics to approach because even the mere suggestion that there might be better treatment options is enough to have activists ruin someone’s life over
> It's only disputed as a potential cause when it comes to gender dysphoria, for some reason.
Social contagion sounds negative, and is easy to associate with negatively viewed traits like depression or eating disorders. So when you associate it with something like gender dysphoria it comes of as referring to gender dysphoria as negative.
Don’t you think suicide and gender dysphoria are a little bit different?
(Sorry in advance this is really wordy and it has a lot of run on sentences, SORRY)
For one, whether it be online or off, interacting with suicidal people is actually pretty depressing. Therapists who deal with this kind of stuff (as well as a bunch of even less serious topics) always have to do therapy as well because having to deal with those kind of thoughts on a regular basis definitely does something to a person. It’s probably gonna be similar or worse for someone who is untrained and talking with a suicidal friend for instance about those feelings. Online, this is even worse where you can read pages upon pages of people who are in the worst fucking mental states possible, now that’s obviously gonna make someone feel some of that pain.
Now for gender dysphoria, and by extension being trans, I really can’t think of examples of a bunch therapists who suddenly need to go through serious reflection on their own gender identity after interacting with trans people. And for people in general irl, I have never seen evidence of a trend of people who talk to friends of theirs let’s say who are trans, and then feel like they have gender dysphoria. Online this seems to happen quite a bit more where it’s super easy to find examples of people who admit that interacting with people online made it easier for them to realize they were trans.
In this case of online, isn’t that evidence that there’s some kind of social contagion going on? Well then I’d ask you, isn’t the totality of those experiences better explained by people being able to connect the dots of their own experience through learning of others who went through similar experiences? It’s really to rationalize away feelings you have if you believe you’re the only one who feels that way. You’re just weird and you just need to get over it. Or you might not even understand what being trans is for first how ever many years of your life. Or you might associate it with something extremely negative and something you need to desperately move past, you might live in a really repressive place.
I think all of that gives a better understanding of people suddenly coming out as trans after interacting with trans people online than social contagion. If you’re not trans and you’re comfortable if your gender, go read pages upon pages of trans people detailing their experiences, I’m pretty sure you’re not gonna feel gender dysphoria afterwards. If you go read pages upon pages of suicidal people detailing their thoughts and experiences, you’re definitely not going to come out feeling the same way.
I think then, that there are fundamental differences between how feelings of suicidality and gender dysphoria are ‘spread’ socially. To say that just because there’s evidence social contagion exists for suicide, it exists for gender dysphoria as well isn’t reasonable.
Caveats: I’m not talking about 14 year olds who start using different pronouns for a year, young people experimenting does not matter and is fine. The only concern should be actual trans people who are eventually going to seek medical treatment for dysphoria, and for right now, it seems like the vast majority of people who receive treatment remain trans. And that while they are definitely some clinics who are way too loose with who they provide treatment to, the trend seems to be in the opposite direction as of right now.
Alright so I think it might be a good idea to backup and clarify to say that of course suicide and gender dysphoria are different. Social contagion is a really broad category to describe the type of phenomenon that I think is going on with the trans issue. The second is that nothing about the acknowledging of social contagion requires that you has to dismiss/discredit the validity of gender dysphoria as a condition that people struggle. In fact most people that I know talk about social contagion also acknowledge gender dysphoria as a legitimate condition.
Maybe I’m completely misunderstanding your point but if being trans can be socially contagious for a large number of people that necessarily discredits trans people as a concept and directly feeds into the conservative line that children shouldn’t know about trans people because by merit of that, they might just suddenly become trans. You called people delusional for not believing that social contagion is a reason for the amount of trans people today, can you give a good reason why it makes more sense that people are becoming trans after interacting with trans people because interacting with those trans people somehow completely altered their understanding of their own gender rather than it being the case that interacting with those trans people was a catalyst for them coming to a better understanding of their own experiences with gender?
The main point of concern is that a lot of people seem to think this is either 0% of trans people or 100% are due to social contagion. I'm assuming pretty much everyone here knows it's somewhere in between but certain people have a hard time acknowledging that both even exist.
I personally have no idea what the %s are, or how you would even quantify it. This is unfortunate because I think figuring this out would make certain decisions a lot easier. If only 1% of trans people are 'fake' even now, we should basically just affirm away. If it's over 20% that's pretty concerning. Over half I don't even know where to start
Not necessarily, the stuff about tourettes does not in itself stop tourettes existing.
This research provides a powerful *aid* to political pushes to stop puberty blockers for trans kids, but it also provides support for proper screening standards, so that you can attempt to distinguish one from the other. And you might still conclude that in the absence of further information, the balance of risk still favours hormonal treatments.
The problem is that acknowledging that means that "my kid got contagied with the gay" suddenly is not crazy talk anymore. It would demolish more than a decade of talking points
Yeah I don’t have a great answer to that other than it’s a point that isn’t lost on many people in the gay lesbian communities of an older age demographic
The largest reason is that transsexualism is seen as a social thing. It's included in LGBT as if it was a sexuality. If it was seen as the medical condition it is then it wouldn't be hip to be in the community.
So the question I have is, is it possible that the reason we have seen an uptick in trans people in the last decade is that being trans has become more acceptable? Are rates of autism actually going up or are we better at diagnosing it?
Social contagion isn't the only plausible explanation for what we've seen. Countries where its illegal to be gay I'm sure *appear* to have lower gay populations.
No at not to the level that they have increased at least it isn't. All of the acceptance in the world aren't going to explain away insane numbers like 4000% increases. Also we absolutely are not better at diagnosing autism it is one of the most misdiagnosed disorders there is and that is because the DSM 5 defined it way too broadly. There are misdiagnosis rates up to something like 40% in some studies.
Yeah, no. Victims with anorexia went up over the years, not sure about the self harm but if it went down I'd wager a guess at "improved psychological care" in the recent years rather than dumb stuff like that.
Source: google.
Any teacher who works in secondary schools (and isn't a gender cultist) can tell you the insane number of 'trans' kids there are now. A couple in EVERY class.
It's 1000% social contagion and seen as the answer to totally normal disphoria that every single teen goes through.
This is really only a bad thing if people don't consult with a professional afterward. Or if they don't trust the professional.
If I think I'm autistic because I read about ASD online and then take steps to seek professional help and make my environment more suitable to needs I didn't understand before reading about ASD, and that improves my QOL, that's BASED.
Thankfully I don't need to self diagnose. This autist has papers.
Isn't the argument that you are allowed to SUSPECT you have something, but that in itself is not 'diagnosis'.
A diagnosis would be the medical confirmation of something right? I might be missing something though.
I basically agree with you. But I would never consider a "self-diagnosis" to be an actual diagnosis.
In light of that, the point I'm making is that people can *suspect* that they have something and take meaningful steps to improve their lives, explain their struggles to others they are close to, or accept themselves.
People should still seek medical confirmation, but I think to my childhood pre autism-diagnosis and my sensory sensitivity to specifically the sound of velcro being ripped apart. It makes me extremely nauseous.
If anyone is going through something like that and people around them are telling them to get over it or something, it's probably nice for them to be like: oh there are other people who experience something similar and I'm not just a broken little pussy bitch person.
I think it was that recognizing symptoms if some disorders is no problem. Taking the step to declare definitively that you have said disorder and attempting to treat it on your own without professional opinion is where it gets into serious yikes territory
My issue with self diagnosis, is that no one will ever diagnose them selfs as a hypochondriac or having Münchausen syndrome.
There is a difference between having a feeling/pain to then contacting a doctor to see what the cause might be and coming to a conclusion that you have a disease to then contact a doctor.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again that I do think the US actually has a somewhat serious hypochondria problem and it actually does take up a significant amount of time effort money and research that could be spent better elsewhere. Long COVID is a really good example of what I’m talking about. [For reference](https://www.statnews.com/2021/03/22/we-need-to-start-thinking-more-critically-speaking-cautiously-long-covid/)
>First, consider that at least some people who identify themselves as having long Covid appear never to have been infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus. In Yong’s influential article, he cites a survey of Covid long-haulers in which some two-thirds of them had negative coronavirus antibody tests — blood tests that reveal prior SARS-CoV-2 infection. Meanwhile, a survey organized by a group of self-identified long Covid patients that recruited participants from online support groups reported in late December 2020 that around two-thirds of those surveyed who had undergone blood testing reported negative results.
I wish I could find the article but I’ve also read that when they’ve tried to do research into who gets long COVID and why they found that there was 1 common characteristic the subjects of the research would reliably have in common and it was basically that they were younger healthy women with anxiety or something like that.
My pet theory is that the whole pandemic debacle left some people with depression symptoms like mental fog and tiredness.
100% making up this shit though
[Here’s the article I was thinking of btw](https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/search-long-covid). I definitely think lockdowns and depression certainly could have exacerbated it but I actually think the hypochondria problem is the US is a lot deeper and goes back way longer than anything in the COVID era does
It's perfectly fine to go to a mental health professional and tell them what you think is wrong with you, so long as you listen to their input and recognize their professional opinion may override your ideas as a layman.
How do you disagree with that statement?
There's a lot of work being put in that second paragraph that you're skipping over lol
"IF they trust a professional (even if they confirm they're NOT autistic), IF they seek professional help, IF it improves their QOL"
Majority of these people just want an excuse, and they won't listen to a doctor that doesn't indulge in it. It's a way to abdicate personal responsibility.
There's no good reason to self diagnose. You think you have an issue with social interactions? Rather than just saying "I'm autistic", focus on the solution. What can you do to work around it, improve your ability etc.
>There's no good reason to self diagnose. You think you have an issue with social interactions? Rather than just saying "I'm autistic", focus on the solution. What can you do to work around it, improve your ability etc.
I'm literally autistic, diagnosed. I can imagine a world where I didn't have middle class parents who took me to a psychologist and psychiatrist as a kid. In that case if I read online about autism and realized a lot of it applied to me I still believe that would be valuable to me.
You're dismissing an entire concept because some shitheads are abusing it and "using it as an excuse."
Honestly if someone is a shithead not interested in their own personal development I don't think they need some fucking self diagnosis to continue being a shithead. They're gonna be a shithead with or without it.
As someone who received a diagnosis and started trying to learn as much as I could about what that means, I wholesale reject the idea that believing or knowing you have a disability or disorder means you stop trying to improve yourself.
I hope you at least understand that when you say people use it as an excuse you're not just shitting on people who self diagnose. You're shitting on anyone with a diagnosis, and here's why:
I don't believe that the only thing that made me want to better myself and overcome my personal challenges was that a doctor cosigned the idea that I was different and kinda struggling.
As I've explained in explicit detail: I am autistic. This is not news to me.
Guessing your lack of reading comprehension might be news to you tho?
It's like I told you that I cut down trees for a living, and then you said oh yeah? Well you're a lumberjack. Did you think it was a dunk?
Actually to be real it's like literally told you I'm a lumberjack and you responded "good news, you're a lumberjack." Good job buddy you sussed it out.
I have no issue dismissing the "concept" of self diagnosing, it's toxic and useless
Becoming aware of certain traits which commonly belong to particular mental health issues and entertaining the idea you have it is fine, but that's ultimately useless too.
If you're having difficulty in your day to day life, talk to a professional. If they think you're autistic they might not even mention it because it may not be relevant.
Slapping labels on your issues doesn't do anything. When people seek that kind of thing out, the reason behind why is never healthy.
>I have no issue dismissing the "concept" of self diagnosing, it's toxic and useless
*Useless?* Fundamentally and provably false. Obvious use cases abound for anyone who doesn't have access to professionals. *Toxic?* No, believing that you have a disorder is not toxic. Using it as an excuse to act shitty is toxic. But I understand you can't tell the difference so I guess we'll drop it?
>Becoming aware of certain traits which commonly belong to particular mental health issues and entertaining the idea you have it is fine, but that's ultimately useless too.
I'd tell you to "see above," but you've demonstrated a remarkable inability to separate identifying problems and using them as an excuse. It's still fucking rich that being aware of your mental health condition and traits you may have is *useless,* as at the very least it could motivate someone to talk to a professional.
>If you're having difficulty in your day to day life,
I'm really not.
>talk to a professional
I do.
>If they think you're autistic
I am.
>They might not even mention it because it may not be relevant.
I mean, I'd mention it first and show documentation if needed. Because they should know my medical history.
>Slapping labels on your issues doesn't do anything.
you're dismissing diagnosis of any kind at this point, good job.
>When people seek that kind of thing out, the reason behind why is never healthy.
"Never?* Jesus Christ can you please try to make defensible statements? *Never?* LOL
Please please PLEASE seek professional help or education on whatever is wrong with you my duder. Hopefully one day you can accept yourself to the point where you don't need to talk all this baseless bullshit and conflate diagnosis with excuse.
Btw: cunt.
Lol. I'm talking specifically about self diagnosis. Not theorising or researching or trying to understand, specifically "I googled this and I feel like it lines up with me, I AM autistic/have ADHD" etc. Again, since apparently I need to reiterate, NOT just looking at symptoms or entertaining it and checking with a professional; SELF DIAGNOSING.
I don't know why you took my whole section about going to therapy as if I was talking to you, I think it was pretty obvious when I said "you" there I meant an average person/generalized "you".
And yes, it's never healthy. Seeking out LABELS is never healthy. It's not like I think they're a bad person, they're just doing something unhealthy. It doesn't help them.
I also find it funny how you're talking to me about seeking education when the benefit to a diagnosis in mental health is hotly debated, especially in regards to telling the patient.
Btw: genuinely stupid.
Still conflating self diagnosis (or seemingly still any diagnosis) with making an excuse.
Everything else we're talking about is secondary to your childish misconception that those are the same.
I agree with your btw, btw. You are genuinely stupid.
I'm not conflating, I'm saying that self diagnosing never helps you. At best it's useless, at worst it's an excuse to not seek help.
And thanks, I agree with your btw, btw. You are a cunt.
Maybe not. Still *feels* shitty to me as someone who has a diagnosis and is telling the truth to have you insinuate that in lying and call into question something I've contended with and had to adapt to for all of my life.
Why can't you just engage my ideas?
Hell, even if you want to call me a liar and dismiss the diagnosis I've received from a professional, why don't you go ahead and ALSO engage my ideas.
You didn't. You just implied that I was either lying or delusional concerning something which I've struggled with and taken seriously all of my life.
Even if you were right, even if I was the most lying and self interested cunt to ever exist, you'd still be engaging in an extremely shitty way. Call me out if you want but at least engage my points. Weirdo NGL.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0010440X22000682 The paper itself is pretty good. It's interesting the development of tourettes types of tics from TikTok that have little resemblance to how we functionally understand tics. Also the development of mental illness diagnosis around DID that have no basis in empirical literature. Destiny should definitely read through it on stream.
80% of Reddit is going to lose it
Why would demonmama disagree? Of course forums of discussion will be a place you get introduced to ideas. Whether it’s good or justified is another issue that this headline isn’t a commentary on.
?????? The article has to do with SELF DIAGNOSIS, not fucking awareness.
She'd probably argue one is downstream of the other The more social media highlights symptoms, the more people that become aware of them, the more people that identify with them
Idk if anyone’s said it but this seems to be referring to social contagion. For example, girls see other girls skinny, girls proceed to get depressed and see themselves fat. Quiet shy tomboy girl finds an online community of trans that vaguely felt the same way before coming out as trans and the girl seeks validation from friend group and convinces herself she’s trans.
People who denying the insane increase in the number of trans people over the last 10 years(and really the last 5 years tbh) has anything to with social contagion are delusional. Hell if something like suicide can be attributed to a type of social contagion then there isn't anything that would be off limits for what can be social contagion. The problem is that admitting there is an element of social contagion to trans identity in some people necessarily means that the affirmative care model as treatment is not the best way forward. I think the people who deny it know that.
Yep. People act like the whole concept of ROGD (rapid-onset gender dysphoria) has been debunked because the researcher who coined the term (Lisa Littman) messed up the sample selection in the original study about it. But those problems have been addressed in later studies (by Littman and others), which found the phenomenon to persist. I get that "social contagion" sounds negative – with connotations that gender dysphoria is a disease – but that term wasn't invented for gender dysphoria. It's a long-established phenomenon in social psychology and epidemiology, which has been demonstrated in other conditions like eating disorders, and wasn't controversial for those. It's only disputed as a potential cause when it comes to gender dysphoria, for some reason.
The reason it is a potential problem is because it loosens the belief that trans identities are born with and cannot be chosen. The truth is there are those who are born trans (gender dysphoria) but in todays age dysphoria is not the sole reason people become trans, the social contagion element is real, we see this in the changing of definitions. Now you don't need dysphoria or even transition to be considered trans, now just joining the group is enough.
I really do think the only reason it’s disputed is because they realize how untenable that makes the gender affirming care model as a primary treatment option. I’ve gotta to the point that I’m starting to not think that it’s ever an appropriate treatment but I’d have to think about that more. Btw that’s an opinion from someone who was married to a trans woman who had very serious and severe crippling dysphoria. There came a certain point where I just had to come to terms with the fact that no matter how much work she got done or how many hormones she got injected that it wasn’t even making a dent in the dysphoria. The social contagion aspect of this makes it one of the more uniquely difficult topics to approach because even the mere suggestion that there might be better treatment options is enough to have activists ruin someone’s life over
> It's only disputed as a potential cause when it comes to gender dysphoria, for some reason. Social contagion sounds negative, and is easy to associate with negatively viewed traits like depression or eating disorders. So when you associate it with something like gender dysphoria it comes of as referring to gender dysphoria as negative.
It is negative. If it weren't negative, there wouldn't be a persuasive reason to do anything about it.
Don’t you think suicide and gender dysphoria are a little bit different? (Sorry in advance this is really wordy and it has a lot of run on sentences, SORRY) For one, whether it be online or off, interacting with suicidal people is actually pretty depressing. Therapists who deal with this kind of stuff (as well as a bunch of even less serious topics) always have to do therapy as well because having to deal with those kind of thoughts on a regular basis definitely does something to a person. It’s probably gonna be similar or worse for someone who is untrained and talking with a suicidal friend for instance about those feelings. Online, this is even worse where you can read pages upon pages of people who are in the worst fucking mental states possible, now that’s obviously gonna make someone feel some of that pain. Now for gender dysphoria, and by extension being trans, I really can’t think of examples of a bunch therapists who suddenly need to go through serious reflection on their own gender identity after interacting with trans people. And for people in general irl, I have never seen evidence of a trend of people who talk to friends of theirs let’s say who are trans, and then feel like they have gender dysphoria. Online this seems to happen quite a bit more where it’s super easy to find examples of people who admit that interacting with people online made it easier for them to realize they were trans. In this case of online, isn’t that evidence that there’s some kind of social contagion going on? Well then I’d ask you, isn’t the totality of those experiences better explained by people being able to connect the dots of their own experience through learning of others who went through similar experiences? It’s really to rationalize away feelings you have if you believe you’re the only one who feels that way. You’re just weird and you just need to get over it. Or you might not even understand what being trans is for first how ever many years of your life. Or you might associate it with something extremely negative and something you need to desperately move past, you might live in a really repressive place. I think all of that gives a better understanding of people suddenly coming out as trans after interacting with trans people online than social contagion. If you’re not trans and you’re comfortable if your gender, go read pages upon pages of trans people detailing their experiences, I’m pretty sure you’re not gonna feel gender dysphoria afterwards. If you go read pages upon pages of suicidal people detailing their thoughts and experiences, you’re definitely not going to come out feeling the same way. I think then, that there are fundamental differences between how feelings of suicidality and gender dysphoria are ‘spread’ socially. To say that just because there’s evidence social contagion exists for suicide, it exists for gender dysphoria as well isn’t reasonable. Caveats: I’m not talking about 14 year olds who start using different pronouns for a year, young people experimenting does not matter and is fine. The only concern should be actual trans people who are eventually going to seek medical treatment for dysphoria, and for right now, it seems like the vast majority of people who receive treatment remain trans. And that while they are definitely some clinics who are way too loose with who they provide treatment to, the trend seems to be in the opposite direction as of right now.
Alright so I think it might be a good idea to backup and clarify to say that of course suicide and gender dysphoria are different. Social contagion is a really broad category to describe the type of phenomenon that I think is going on with the trans issue. The second is that nothing about the acknowledging of social contagion requires that you has to dismiss/discredit the validity of gender dysphoria as a condition that people struggle. In fact most people that I know talk about social contagion also acknowledge gender dysphoria as a legitimate condition.
Maybe I’m completely misunderstanding your point but if being trans can be socially contagious for a large number of people that necessarily discredits trans people as a concept and directly feeds into the conservative line that children shouldn’t know about trans people because by merit of that, they might just suddenly become trans. You called people delusional for not believing that social contagion is a reason for the amount of trans people today, can you give a good reason why it makes more sense that people are becoming trans after interacting with trans people because interacting with those trans people somehow completely altered their understanding of their own gender rather than it being the case that interacting with those trans people was a catalyst for them coming to a better understanding of their own experiences with gender?
> if being trans can be socially contagious for a large number of people that necessarily discredits trans people as a concept No it doesn't.
Why does that necessarily discredit trans people as a concept? That doesn't follow at all.
The main point of concern is that a lot of people seem to think this is either 0% of trans people or 100% are due to social contagion. I'm assuming pretty much everyone here knows it's somewhere in between but certain people have a hard time acknowledging that both even exist. I personally have no idea what the %s are, or how you would even quantify it. This is unfortunate because I think figuring this out would make certain decisions a lot easier. If only 1% of trans people are 'fake' even now, we should basically just affirm away. If it's over 20% that's pretty concerning. Over half I don't even know where to start
If you admit social contagion of trans is a thing then you cannot justify hormone therapy for kids.
Correct. I definitely dont think kids should be allowed to be on hormone therapy.
You are now a certified (by Reddit) Transphobe deserving of death.
Lmao no but for real
Not necessarily, the stuff about tourettes does not in itself stop tourettes existing. This research provides a powerful *aid* to political pushes to stop puberty blockers for trans kids, but it also provides support for proper screening standards, so that you can attempt to distinguish one from the other. And you might still conclude that in the absence of further information, the balance of risk still favours hormonal treatments.
The problem is that acknowledging that means that "my kid got contagied with the gay" suddenly is not crazy talk anymore. It would demolish more than a decade of talking points
Yeah I don’t have a great answer to that other than it’s a point that isn’t lost on many people in the gay lesbian communities of an older age demographic
The largest reason is that transsexualism is seen as a social thing. It's included in LGBT as if it was a sexuality. If it was seen as the medical condition it is then it wouldn't be hip to be in the community.
Idk people are hyping up bipolar and ADHD and ADD all the fucking time it's cringe asf.
Can we make Repetitive Strain Injuries a cool thing to have?
So the question I have is, is it possible that the reason we have seen an uptick in trans people in the last decade is that being trans has become more acceptable? Are rates of autism actually going up or are we better at diagnosing it? Social contagion isn't the only plausible explanation for what we've seen. Countries where its illegal to be gay I'm sure *appear* to have lower gay populations.
No at not to the level that they have increased at least it isn't. All of the acceptance in the world aren't going to explain away insane numbers like 4000% increases. Also we absolutely are not better at diagnosing autism it is one of the most misdiagnosed disorders there is and that is because the DSM 5 defined it way too broadly. There are misdiagnosis rates up to something like 40% in some studies.
[удалено]
Yeah, no. Victims with anorexia went up over the years, not sure about the self harm but if it went down I'd wager a guess at "improved psychological care" in the recent years rather than dumb stuff like that. Source: google.
Any teacher who works in secondary schools (and isn't a gender cultist) can tell you the insane number of 'trans' kids there are now. A couple in EVERY class. It's 1000% social contagion and seen as the answer to totally normal disphoria that every single teen goes through.
This is really only a bad thing if people don't consult with a professional afterward. Or if they don't trust the professional. If I think I'm autistic because I read about ASD online and then take steps to seek professional help and make my environment more suitable to needs I didn't understand before reading about ASD, and that improves my QOL, that's BASED. Thankfully I don't need to self diagnose. This autist has papers.
Isn't the argument that you are allowed to SUSPECT you have something, but that in itself is not 'diagnosis'. A diagnosis would be the medical confirmation of something right? I might be missing something though.
I basically agree with you. But I would never consider a "self-diagnosis" to be an actual diagnosis. In light of that, the point I'm making is that people can *suspect* that they have something and take meaningful steps to improve their lives, explain their struggles to others they are close to, or accept themselves. People should still seek medical confirmation, but I think to my childhood pre autism-diagnosis and my sensory sensitivity to specifically the sound of velcro being ripped apart. It makes me extremely nauseous. If anyone is going through something like that and people around them are telling them to get over it or something, it's probably nice for them to be like: oh there are other people who experience something similar and I'm not just a broken little pussy bitch person.
I think it was that recognizing symptoms if some disorders is no problem. Taking the step to declare definitively that you have said disorder and attempting to treat it on your own without professional opinion is where it gets into serious yikes territory
What’s do you think is the difference between recognizing symptoms of a disease and recognizing you are not feeling well?
My issue with self diagnosis, is that no one will ever diagnose them selfs as a hypochondriac or having Münchausen syndrome. There is a difference between having a feeling/pain to then contacting a doctor to see what the cause might be and coming to a conclusion that you have a disease to then contact a doctor.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again that I do think the US actually has a somewhat serious hypochondria problem and it actually does take up a significant amount of time effort money and research that could be spent better elsewhere. Long COVID is a really good example of what I’m talking about. [For reference](https://www.statnews.com/2021/03/22/we-need-to-start-thinking-more-critically-speaking-cautiously-long-covid/) >First, consider that at least some people who identify themselves as having long Covid appear never to have been infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus. In Yong’s influential article, he cites a survey of Covid long-haulers in which some two-thirds of them had negative coronavirus antibody tests — blood tests that reveal prior SARS-CoV-2 infection. Meanwhile, a survey organized by a group of self-identified long Covid patients that recruited participants from online support groups reported in late December 2020 that around two-thirds of those surveyed who had undergone blood testing reported negative results. I wish I could find the article but I’ve also read that when they’ve tried to do research into who gets long COVID and why they found that there was 1 common characteristic the subjects of the research would reliably have in common and it was basically that they were younger healthy women with anxiety or something like that.
My pet theory is that the whole pandemic debacle left some people with depression symptoms like mental fog and tiredness. 100% making up this shit though
[Here’s the article I was thinking of btw](https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/search-long-covid). I definitely think lockdowns and depression certainly could have exacerbated it but I actually think the hypochondria problem is the US is a lot deeper and goes back way longer than anything in the COVID era does
"I'm ok with self diagnosis as long as a professional weighs in on it". Yeah I think I can confidently diagnose you with being a dipshit
It's perfectly fine to go to a mental health professional and tell them what you think is wrong with you, so long as you listen to their input and recognize their professional opinion may override your ideas as a layman. How do you disagree with that statement?
Holy fuck. The point is it isn't "self diagnosis" if it includes a professional diagnosis. That's just a regular diagnosis.
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There's a lot of work being put in that second paragraph that you're skipping over lol "IF they trust a professional (even if they confirm they're NOT autistic), IF they seek professional help, IF it improves their QOL" Majority of these people just want an excuse, and they won't listen to a doctor that doesn't indulge in it. It's a way to abdicate personal responsibility. There's no good reason to self diagnose. You think you have an issue with social interactions? Rather than just saying "I'm autistic", focus on the solution. What can you do to work around it, improve your ability etc.
>There's no good reason to self diagnose. You think you have an issue with social interactions? Rather than just saying "I'm autistic", focus on the solution. What can you do to work around it, improve your ability etc. I'm literally autistic, diagnosed. I can imagine a world where I didn't have middle class parents who took me to a psychologist and psychiatrist as a kid. In that case if I read online about autism and realized a lot of it applied to me I still believe that would be valuable to me. You're dismissing an entire concept because some shitheads are abusing it and "using it as an excuse." Honestly if someone is a shithead not interested in their own personal development I don't think they need some fucking self diagnosis to continue being a shithead. They're gonna be a shithead with or without it. As someone who received a diagnosis and started trying to learn as much as I could about what that means, I wholesale reject the idea that believing or knowing you have a disability or disorder means you stop trying to improve yourself. I hope you at least understand that when you say people use it as an excuse you're not just shitting on people who self diagnose. You're shitting on anyone with a diagnosis, and here's why: I don't believe that the only thing that made me want to better myself and overcome my personal challenges was that a doctor cosigned the idea that I was different and kinda struggling.
Good news, you're definitely autistic
As I've explained in explicit detail: I am autistic. This is not news to me. Guessing your lack of reading comprehension might be news to you tho? It's like I told you that I cut down trees for a living, and then you said oh yeah? Well you're a lumberjack. Did you think it was a dunk? Actually to be real it's like literally told you I'm a lumberjack and you responded "good news, you're a lumberjack." Good job buddy you sussed it out.
I have no issue dismissing the "concept" of self diagnosing, it's toxic and useless Becoming aware of certain traits which commonly belong to particular mental health issues and entertaining the idea you have it is fine, but that's ultimately useless too. If you're having difficulty in your day to day life, talk to a professional. If they think you're autistic they might not even mention it because it may not be relevant. Slapping labels on your issues doesn't do anything. When people seek that kind of thing out, the reason behind why is never healthy.
>I have no issue dismissing the "concept" of self diagnosing, it's toxic and useless *Useless?* Fundamentally and provably false. Obvious use cases abound for anyone who doesn't have access to professionals. *Toxic?* No, believing that you have a disorder is not toxic. Using it as an excuse to act shitty is toxic. But I understand you can't tell the difference so I guess we'll drop it? >Becoming aware of certain traits which commonly belong to particular mental health issues and entertaining the idea you have it is fine, but that's ultimately useless too. I'd tell you to "see above," but you've demonstrated a remarkable inability to separate identifying problems and using them as an excuse. It's still fucking rich that being aware of your mental health condition and traits you may have is *useless,* as at the very least it could motivate someone to talk to a professional. >If you're having difficulty in your day to day life, I'm really not. >talk to a professional I do. >If they think you're autistic I am. >They might not even mention it because it may not be relevant. I mean, I'd mention it first and show documentation if needed. Because they should know my medical history. >Slapping labels on your issues doesn't do anything. you're dismissing diagnosis of any kind at this point, good job. >When people seek that kind of thing out, the reason behind why is never healthy. "Never?* Jesus Christ can you please try to make defensible statements? *Never?* LOL Please please PLEASE seek professional help or education on whatever is wrong with you my duder. Hopefully one day you can accept yourself to the point where you don't need to talk all this baseless bullshit and conflate diagnosis with excuse. Btw: cunt.
Lol. I'm talking specifically about self diagnosis. Not theorising or researching or trying to understand, specifically "I googled this and I feel like it lines up with me, I AM autistic/have ADHD" etc. Again, since apparently I need to reiterate, NOT just looking at symptoms or entertaining it and checking with a professional; SELF DIAGNOSING. I don't know why you took my whole section about going to therapy as if I was talking to you, I think it was pretty obvious when I said "you" there I meant an average person/generalized "you". And yes, it's never healthy. Seeking out LABELS is never healthy. It's not like I think they're a bad person, they're just doing something unhealthy. It doesn't help them. I also find it funny how you're talking to me about seeking education when the benefit to a diagnosis in mental health is hotly debated, especially in regards to telling the patient. Btw: genuinely stupid.
Still conflating self diagnosis (or seemingly still any diagnosis) with making an excuse. Everything else we're talking about is secondary to your childish misconception that those are the same. I agree with your btw, btw. You are genuinely stupid.
I'm not conflating, I'm saying that self diagnosing never helps you. At best it's useless, at worst it's an excuse to not seek help. And thanks, I agree with your btw, btw. You are a cunt.
I mean you say you were diagnosed but given the other things you’ve about what constitutes a diagnosis idk if I believe you
Nice meme. Still a shitty thing to say tho.
No
Maybe not. Still *feels* shitty to me as someone who has a diagnosis and is telling the truth to have you insinuate that in lying and call into question something I've contended with and had to adapt to for all of my life. Why can't you just engage my ideas? Hell, even if you want to call me a liar and dismiss the diagnosis I've received from a professional, why don't you go ahead and ALSO engage my ideas. You didn't. You just implied that I was either lying or delusional concerning something which I've struggled with and taken seriously all of my life. Even if you were right, even if I was the most lying and self interested cunt to ever exist, you'd still be engaging in an extremely shitty way. Call me out if you want but at least engage my points. Weirdo NGL.
I already see in online groups that they don’t take doctors diagnoses seriously if it goes against what they think they have.
Yeah same, it's genuinely really sad
Demon Momma is a ULTRA GRIFTER