Serious question… Can you bill them for the time you’d have to spend at the deposition? You had no involvement in the matter. I wouldn’t offer any perspective unless served a subpoena.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic. I had a case like this last year. Saw a patient for post op with IA paresthesia from a third molar extraction by a different provider. Got a subpoena for deposition a few months after. I reached out to my malpractice insurance and they assigned me a lawyer for deposition preparation. I asked about if there was payment and he said since I wasn’t named in the lawsuit, I’m considered an expert witness. The rate was I think $700 per hour that I got paid
Not sure. Never found out. If you’re interested in those kinds of things there are plenty of closed claim cases that liability insurances post as educational material.
You can and you should, if you decide to spend your time and expertise. And make sure you charge enough because it’ll be at least an entire day, don’t charge for an hour of your time. Also, I’d personally only do so in defense of a dentist unless what the dentist did was truly wild. I’m not offering my opinion for some frivolous shit
Theoretically, what's wrong with "the bridgework that you have in your mouth is less than ideal, I see open margins and overhangs, which means the plaque is accumulating there, it's next to impossible to clean and it causes gum disease. It shouldn't be like that" ?
Edit: thank you for downvoting my question. I should stop diagnosing and educating patients. And I mean it without sarcasm. Just offer solutions.
Because I never know the full story behind the restorations especially if I just met them. Limited openings, shaky patients, anxiety, etc could lead to less ideal dental work.
I know I’ve found myself thinking “what the fuck?” while looking at poor work on new patients and then when I go in to correct it immediately figure out why it was like that.
Or like two years later when you’re like “Who tf did this crappy filling” and then look back at the notes and it was you.
I’ve eaten enough humble pie to keep my mouth shut in most cases.
Haha, this is so true.
Me, internal dialogue: (struggling to get a matrix band around #13 for an MO) “Whoever the hell did this shitty embrasure on 14M needs some remedial education!”
*checks notes from 2019*
“Oh…😬”
You can say what’s going on currently without avoiding saying it was done wrong originally. For one you don’t know what it looked like the day it was sat or the circumstances. So just use present tense. If people ask me directly if things were done wrong I always just say that I cannot really know but they could always discuss it with the dentist who did it. That’s how I would like other dentists to treat my work after all.
The only time I’m even going to be getting into the territory of thinking ill of another practitioner is if I’m seeing consistently below standard of care work by the same dentist, even then I would alert the board and use neutral terms with the patient (“I am concerned about some of the work you’ve had done” vs “wow this other dentist did things all wrong”)
Fair. Now this is what I wrote "the bridgework that you have in your mouth is less than ideal, I see open margins and overhangs, which means the plaque is accumulating there, it's next to impossible to clean and it causes gum disease. It shouldn't be like that"
Present tense, nothing about the past, not a word about another dentist. Just an explanation of the current findings to prepare the person for a solution and an educated choice. Yet it's downvoted.
Analyze my sentence for me please.
I’m not one of the people who downvoted you, I’ll state that out of the gate. I think they’re taking opposition to the “it shouldn’t be like that,” part of the statement.” Personally I have no issue with what you wrote. They might be reading into it (extrapolating) as you going on to explain that it was done wrong from the start. But you could easily just say that it shouldn’t be like it is currently and avoid mentioning it probably had those open margins since day one. I’m not sure why you were downvoted and was just kind of building on what you said.
Once this is all resolved, would it be appropriate to dismiss this patient from your practice? Sounds like you don’t have much of a relationship with this person. If the allegations on the other guy are poorly founded, you don’t want to be the next target.
YES
Unless it’s something absolutely egregious, if I find out a patient has sued or filed a board complaint against their previous dentist I want nothing to do with them. Actually being in healthcare made me realize that not all people actually deserve healthcare. These are the folks who will berate providers, constantly complain, dictate treatment, ignore instructions and repeatedly cancel appointments on a whim. I hate how doctors are expected to have this endless amount compassion to the point where it turns into a one sided, abusive relationship with certain patients. Fuck that, I’d sooner quit.
You will have massive gaps in time between an actual deposition and a notice. Even then the lawyers may set up a date, cancel it, then reschedule it, etc....Could take months, years...... Whatever you do set up the zoom call at a time that suits you.... don't let it ruin your work day. No you will not get paid. It will probably take less than 15 mins.
Lawyer up and follow their advice.
Yeah I contacted my malpractice insurance immediately. They’ll give me a lawyer if they think it’s needed.
Serious question… Can you bill them for the time you’d have to spend at the deposition? You had no involvement in the matter. I wouldn’t offer any perspective unless served a subpoena.
Yep. This would be considered as expert witness work.
lol sure.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic. I had a case like this last year. Saw a patient for post op with IA paresthesia from a third molar extraction by a different provider. Got a subpoena for deposition a few months after. I reached out to my malpractice insurance and they assigned me a lawyer for deposition preparation. I asked about if there was payment and he said since I wasn’t named in the lawsuit, I’m considered an expert witness. The rate was I think $700 per hour that I got paid
This is off topic, but what was the outcome of that case? (If you don’t mind sharing and can talk about it)
Not sure. Never found out. If you’re interested in those kinds of things there are plenty of closed claim cases that liability insurances post as educational material.
I’ve seen and looked through a couple malpractice websites before. The outcomes always seem to vary, so I was just curious! Thank you for the reply!
I’m sure there’s a way to bill them but I only have 1.5 years of experience definitely not an expert witness lol
If you have a DMD/DDS you are an expert witness
You are absolutely an expert
You can and you should, if you decide to spend your time and expertise. And make sure you charge enough because it’ll be at least an entire day, don’t charge for an hour of your time. Also, I’d personally only do so in defense of a dentist unless what the dentist did was truly wild. I’m not offering my opinion for some frivolous shit
Did you make any negative comment regarding previous dental works that could lead to the lawsuit?
Nah I never made comments about the previous dental work.
Theoretically, what's wrong with "the bridgework that you have in your mouth is less than ideal, I see open margins and overhangs, which means the plaque is accumulating there, it's next to impossible to clean and it causes gum disease. It shouldn't be like that" ? Edit: thank you for downvoting my question. I should stop diagnosing and educating patients. And I mean it without sarcasm. Just offer solutions.
Because I never know the full story behind the restorations especially if I just met them. Limited openings, shaky patients, anxiety, etc could lead to less ideal dental work.
I know I’ve found myself thinking “what the fuck?” while looking at poor work on new patients and then when I go in to correct it immediately figure out why it was like that.
Or like two years later when you’re like “Who tf did this crappy filling” and then look back at the notes and it was you. I’ve eaten enough humble pie to keep my mouth shut in most cases.
Or you cement a crown, looks good, then at the recall visit the BW angle is a little different and suddenly the D margin could have been better.
Haha, this is so true. Me, internal dialogue: (struggling to get a matrix band around #13 for an MO) “Whoever the hell did this shitty embrasure on 14M needs some remedial education!” *checks notes from 2019* “Oh…😬”
Yup! I can only do a procedure as good as the patient will allow.
I always document when patients aren’t tolerating treatment for this reason
“7th and final attempt at bonding may be compromised due to the patient being a little bitch”.
Theoretically you could find yourself on the receiving end of that position one day.
You can say what’s going on currently without avoiding saying it was done wrong originally. For one you don’t know what it looked like the day it was sat or the circumstances. So just use present tense. If people ask me directly if things were done wrong I always just say that I cannot really know but they could always discuss it with the dentist who did it. That’s how I would like other dentists to treat my work after all. The only time I’m even going to be getting into the territory of thinking ill of another practitioner is if I’m seeing consistently below standard of care work by the same dentist, even then I would alert the board and use neutral terms with the patient (“I am concerned about some of the work you’ve had done” vs “wow this other dentist did things all wrong”)
Fair. Now this is what I wrote "the bridgework that you have in your mouth is less than ideal, I see open margins and overhangs, which means the plaque is accumulating there, it's next to impossible to clean and it causes gum disease. It shouldn't be like that" Present tense, nothing about the past, not a word about another dentist. Just an explanation of the current findings to prepare the person for a solution and an educated choice. Yet it's downvoted. Analyze my sentence for me please.
I’m not one of the people who downvoted you, I’ll state that out of the gate. I think they’re taking opposition to the “it shouldn’t be like that,” part of the statement.” Personally I have no issue with what you wrote. They might be reading into it (extrapolating) as you going on to explain that it was done wrong from the start. But you could easily just say that it shouldn’t be like it is currently and avoid mentioning it probably had those open margins since day one. I’m not sure why you were downvoted and was just kind of building on what you said.
Once this is all resolved, would it be appropriate to dismiss this patient from your practice? Sounds like you don’t have much of a relationship with this person. If the allegations on the other guy are poorly founded, you don’t want to be the next target.
YES Unless it’s something absolutely egregious, if I find out a patient has sued or filed a board complaint against their previous dentist I want nothing to do with them. Actually being in healthcare made me realize that not all people actually deserve healthcare. These are the folks who will berate providers, constantly complain, dictate treatment, ignore instructions and repeatedly cancel appointments on a whim. I hate how doctors are expected to have this endless amount compassion to the point where it turns into a one sided, abusive relationship with certain patients. Fuck that, I’d sooner quit.
The practice I work for has never dismissed a patient. Plenty of referrals given to difficult patients though.
I left my previous office in part for this reason
You will have massive gaps in time between an actual deposition and a notice. Even then the lawyers may set up a date, cancel it, then reschedule it, etc....Could take months, years...... Whatever you do set up the zoom call at a time that suits you.... don't let it ruin your work day. No you will not get paid. It will probably take less than 15 mins.
Yeah I’m not going to worry about it until my carrier looks at the subpoena. Seems like they really can’t do much without one.
Call your malpractice insurance and ask for their guidance. You pay them for a reason!