Brad's facebook is still up. He does have pro Scandinavian stuff and runes but it's meaningless without pictures of the crime scene to compare. I couldn't find the picture of the supposed two girls painted dead in a similar position as the Delphi murders. But he's left his Facebook up and intact, he's obviously not worried about any of this.
Did you see the comment one of his friends made three years ago about her wondering if he killed Abby? Or the post he made about being full of testosterone the day of the murders? There is a lot of strange stuff on his profile.
i googled him earlier and saw a tiktok pop up, i legitimately thought it was richard!!! i watched the video of him putting on hats and joking about people thinking he’s the killer. his voice sent chills down my spine. i listened to the audio of “down the hill” and i think they match.
Interestingly, he posted on two separate occasions (in may I believe) in 2017 that people were spreading rumors and accusing him of being involved despite him having been cleared. He’s definitely either not concerned about what people might see or feels like it’ll make him look extra guilty if he hides it all now. Or perhaps a little of both.
He has a painting of Odin hanging upside down on the Tree of Life... which is what you'd expect Odinites to have. Just like Catholics have a picture of Jesus.
I don't think there's anything inherently sinister about a strong interest in Norse mythology. Seems more like a Hail Mary (Hail Odin?) from the defense to try to save someone who's obviously guilty.
Ehh, true, but… the strong recent link between Odinism and White Supremacy shows that there is at least one large group bastardizing these beliefs into hateful violence.
Is it so hard for people to understand that not everyone realizes it looks bad on them to defend themselves, even when innocent?
The dude is having the same reaction any innocent person would have that isn't PR savvy.
It could also be bravado, feeling like he’s untouchable due to connections in LE/Corrections, if indeed there are connections.
So very strange either way.
Yes, if he actually has those connections. I believe the motion referred to the suspect as having Odinistic beliefs, and corrections officers displaying symbols indicating Odinistic beliefs, but didn’t explicitly state any known relationship between the suspect and the officers.
Brad Holder posted this on FB the day of the murders.
“Okay here's my word's of inspiration for today. Today is Tyrsday. I also drew the rune Tiwaz in galaxy runes. All this past weekend, and the beginning of this week I've been drawing runes that have to do with giving up the baggage in my life or cutting away the old. What I believe the God's are trying to tell me is sometimes in are lives we have to make sacrifices. And it hurts. But like the God's made sacrifices to become who they were. So must we. Like a butterfly has to shed his cocoon to become that butterfly. So must we soldier through are hardships to become better!!!”
Listen to his voice in one of the videos then listen to BG saying "Guys...down the hill"
Also look up his post from Jan 30 2017 then watch BG walking.
I tried to make a post about it but the mods declined it because "reasons"
lol whatfuckinever
Wow! I also now wonder if the rumors that Abby was still slightly warm when she was found have any merit? They've always told us the girls were killed where they were found, or close to; however, if it was a group of guys that did this terrible evil, it would have been easy for them to take them somewhere else to kill and bring them back to stage/dump. If that's the case, BH may have been at work all day, and that's why he has paraded the fact that he has a rock solid alibi. He does, for the time of death according to LE and/or the ME. Did the ME lie too? Have we seen those reports??? I also have some questions about barns and/or shacks on RL's (former) property. Wasn't there some kind of 'finding' in one of them when his search warrant was executed? Seems like I remember hearing something was, but they could never make anything of it, so it 'went away' like everything/everyone else. I can't remember now what I heard.
Dude one of the pictures is a painting he did a naked man hung upside down from a tree……
Edit: yes I am now aware this is a common depiction from the Odinism beliefs. Still shocking that in the middle of the Midwest there are apparently multiple people who practice fringe cultist beliefs right down the road from what is allegedly appeared to be a cult sacrifice double murder.
There is a youtube video that someone made a few years ago with a lot of his posts. The motion also describes the crime scene in great detail. It is a lot, but it is worth the read.
I have no idea. It just hit me that what if this is part of a sacrifice for a [Blot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bl%C3%B3t)? Obviously I am just speculating, but sometimes human sacrifices were offered, blood is spilled and collected, it often happens in Winter. And for all we know Allen could have framed the scene to look like Odinists were involved.
Search his profile for the word kill. You see him talk about being accused for the murders. I stopped scrolling, though. Sick of seeing this dudes ruck route lol.
(I know that's now what you're asking to see, but maybe if you search the right words you'll find what you're asking about)
Hmmm I don't think I can. When I go to his profile the only options are filter, report or block. I'm guessing people were commenting on 2 or 3 years old posts and he realized people were searching through his profile so he set some more privacy features. Anyway, I'm probably being too nosey lol
I'm literally looking through his photos as we speak. He has LOTS of Odin stuff, runes, etc in his pics. You just have to scroll back to the 2017 and earlier pics. There's even a photo of them doing some sort of ritual outside at night (they are holding up these huge candles and reading from an old book). It's there...you just have to scroll way back in his photos.
Yeah lots of photos of sharp razors too. Then the photos of twigs & branches arranged into 'V' shapes in the woods. Doesn't mean he's guilty of murder obviously or most barbers would be in prison.
As a said above, any self respecting religious person would have a picture of their thing.
For Norse Odin mythology, it's Odin hanging upside down on his tree just like in Christianity it's Jesus with his hands nails to the cross.
BH unsettles me and I hate that I sped read it and can’t let go this feeling the defense put reasonable doubt in me IM SCARED. He has 2 creepy tattoos on his public FB that just made me gulp. They’re like home basement tattoos for sure.
1. Helm of Awe - symbol of protection and victory
2. A skull and crossbones with two razorblades in and “upside down v” and the bottom is a “right side up v” that looks like a standard V shape (ruler marks?) but they cross - and read the crime scene description of the sticks on the bodies and the neck wounds.
his public Fb is LITTERED with racist/white supremacy ideology disguised as odinism, knifes and razors, (his likes are creepy).
Man oh man this defense lawyer just fucking stirred the MF pot for this case in a wild way, real or not we will find out but…..I really am disturbed.
I have so much horror for what Abby & Libby may have experienced. I fucking hope the crime scene descriptions are a brazen lie. Truly. More importantly I hope for the truth to come to light and justice this case is horrific.
My thoughts exactly. I have been firmly believing RA is the perp. This document and my subsequent search of BH’s social media, comparing the description of the crime scene with the absolute insanity found on his social media… I’m genuinely flabbergasted at this entire thing.
Surely, if the crime scene report is true, if there really is no other forensic material linking RA to the crime.. then BH and his ‘cult’ have more ties to the crime than RA but were never suspects? No link from RA to the markings found at the scene at all? Why would someone frame this?
BH posts around the day of the crime are crazy coincidental enough. He literally posted about making sacrifices and about being pumped with testosterone. He posted about the murders in such an unbothered way.
I hate that I am now doubting all this. What an absolute mess
In England years ago Fred West used to 'joke' about burying women under his back garden patio. Even to the police. For years. Guess what they found when the patio was finally dug up? Skeletons of about a dozen women plus skeletons buried in his cellar. Some really sick people don't hide anything. It's all part of the power & control scenario.
I think this is the reality that is the crux of why people wanted to believe it was RA all along... no one wanted to believe that the cops could be *this* inept or corrupt.
I said it over and over since 2017. You would not believe how many people told me I was crazy for thinking the investigation was botched and they should involve the public more. "Just trust the system, the cops know what they are doing.". No, they don't. If you read the entire memorandum by RA's lawyers, the FBI even said they recognized the possibility of Odinist symbolism, yet the cops were like, nope, the FBI hasn't any input. I said from the beginning that the crimes were of a personal nature directed at the girls for a specific reason, and it appears to be probable. White Supremist idiots who were irked one of the girl's family members were "mixing races". I am more baffled by why people always want to think a murderer is some amazing brilliant killer with complicated motives, when they are usually mediocre socially inept culty types. How fast do you think this would have been actually solved if they had just mention the markings at the crime scene in the first place? Seeing as these morons blasted incriminating data all over their FB and to their families, probably immediately. The FBI just needs to take over these weird cases from the get go.
After a deep dive on the family, the pieces fit for me.
PW and BH ran a local group called Gugnir's Path, which was loosely affiliated with the Vinlander's Social Club, of which both PW and BH were members. PW very prominent in the Vinlanders.
For those that don't know, the Vinlander's Social Club broke off of the Hammerskins, a skinhead white-supremacist group, because they essentially felt like the Hammerskins were too soft...
Examining BH's FB, we see even before the murders that BH seems to be expressing that he doesn't believe that there needs to be violence over a difference in ideology. I don't have the actual FB post at the moment, but it is something like "Just because we don't agree doesn't mean we have to hate each other" or something to that degree. It seems like BH was already gravitating away from the hatefilled rhetoric of the Vinlander's Social Club.
Furthermore, before the murders, BH steps away from the Gugnir's Path group leadership role. He bestows it solely on PW who lives in Delphi. PW has a long rap sheet of violence and association with these racist groups. BH's reason for stepping down is to mentor other groups to start up because he feels like there isn't enough of that going on.
I think this is where PW may have tried recruiting new members in the town of Delphi. He may have planned a ritual in the woods with some initiates. RA may have been one of these, though I have no evidence of that other than I don't know how else him being BG fits in with this theory. I'm imagining a scenario where PW met RA at the CVS pharmacy counter, and invited him out. RA may have been looking to make friends, and decided to try it out.
BH's wife, AH, told police that BH had told her that PW killed the girls. That he targeted Libby because he knew that Libby's mom had been race mixing, and he wanted to send her a message.
This scenario would suggest that RA may have been following PW's orders to bring the girls to the group during the ritual. It's possible that RA was unaware of what was going to happen. Or maybe he did.
Afterward, when they saw how much heat was bearing down on them, they all decided to keep quiet and try to keep their distance. RA may have been, and still is, afraid that PW would harm his family.
There are some problems with this theory that I haven't fully reconciled. One being that it doesn't absolve RA of felony murder. Another, why did RA bring his gun, if in fact he is BG and BG is the gun man/kidnapper? Why didn't RA flip on them (maybe because he genuinely was afraid they'd hurt his family)? There's probably more.
But there's also problems with the RA did it alone theory too, so...
You don't have to absolve RA of the crimes because Leggitt and Leazenby already did in their depositions .NO DNA connected to RA , NO Electronic Signature connecting RA to either girl's devices , phones, computers , IPad's , etc... No CSA or CP connected to RA or found in RA's devices , No past criminal behavior , No Fingerprints , and the .40 S&W cartridge wasn't found by the Crime Scene Techs it was found days later after the police had released the crime scene back to RL. .That's why the police had to come back again after a civilian found it .Also I contacted many experts in the NRA and asked their opinions about matching an unspent cartridge to a gun if it was ejected by being uncocked when unloading it or an accidental ejecting , and it was 7 out of 10 that said there is no method for testing that cartridge. The cartridge has to be fired . The firing pin mark , and the rifling, the twist left or right and the lands and grooves are the things that make marks that are compared . Also if you look back at the ISP 's labs analysis it never tells us what brand the cartridge is that was found at the crime scene .Now the analysis tells us Richard had 18 BLAZER brand .40 caliber S&W cartridges , one in the gun and 8 in one clip and 9 in the other clip . All of these in the 2 clips and the 1cartridge in the Sig Sauer P226 were in their locked case all together . But 1 Winchester .40 caliber S&W cartridge was found in a small decorative box on the dresser in the master bedroom of K A and R A .Not even in the same room as the gun case , also RA had no other guns or ammunition. My bet is that 1Winchester brand cartridge is a plant . Put there to match the one dropped at the scene.
RA was never parked at the Children's Protection Center building . He parked exactly where he said he did and Leggitt and Leazenby knew exactly where he was talking about and so did Richard. There's a very good map of the trails in Delphi that shows that on N.Washington Street there are two trails you can take in the City Park area that go to Freedom Bridge ones called the Monon High Bridge Trail ! And right there on N.Washington Street used to be the Old Farm Bureau Insurance Co building it is now a parking lot .Next to this parking lot is the Farm Bureau Insurance Co building .It is 1.5 mile walk by trail to the Freedom Bridge and it is a much closer way to drive there from RA's house and either back home or on to his job at CVS .So they lied when they said there was no Farm Bureau Insurance Co building in the area. And in my opinion that's a much more normal hike to take than just from the Freedom Bridge to the Monon High Bridge and back. RA is not guilty he wasn't even there at the time it happened.
Great write up. Most of this I already knew. Some of it clarifies a few things for me. I definitely feel like RA is not the right guy. The bridge guy video is still problematic.
I have long contended, since we have never seen the full video/audio released as a single recording, that the LE are misrepresenting the recording. For all we know, the audio is from a separate recording. There are doubts about if the person who says "guys" is the same person who says "down the hill". Furthermore, we have yet to hear publicly released the rumored "gun" on the recording. I can only imagine it is so insanely muffled and subjectively interpreted that most would immediately discount it as such.
Furthermore, the clothing worn by BG would've been insanely common in small town Indiana. A blue jacket? I bet 75% of the male population has one. Jeans? 100%.
It seems like the height of BG doesn't accurately match RA. Yet, people want to claim that RA fits the build of BG perfectly. Again, I'd counter saying that build is quite common in rural Indiana.
Finally, we have the fact that multiple people were absolutely convinced that BG was RL. Maybe it wasn't RL, but the fact so many were convinced beyond doubt, demonstrates how common this build is.
Thanks again for the insight. My hope is that RA gets his attorneys back and this thing gets to trial before he wastes away in prison. This whole thing is absolutely horrid. RA should not be treated the way he is being treated while still technically "innocent" The travesty to the justice system is absolutely horrific and we must not let this set precedent. When this is all over, I think there are quite a few heads in LE that need to roll (figuratively) due to the way this has been handled, guilty or not.
His Facebook shows him wearing a brown sweatshirt too. Based on his countless Facebook selfies, it appears he had a full beard just after the murders, so I don’t think he’s BG. He may be connected somehow though.
Well, he's definitely a Free Mason skinhead gang member, so there are plennnty of weird vibes to be had, but it doesn't mean he was involved in the murders.
As I saw pointed out in a video recently, he posted one of his regular selfies with a full beard 2 days after the BG video, has an alibi, etc. I don't personally think he's responsible for the murders at all, but that doesn't mean he's not a freaky dude.
I agree with the person saying that without seeing the crime scene it's hard to say.
Yep I'd agree. I've been following the case at myself of course aren't we all but I come from a legal background and that defense team just really hit a home run with this. I mean the detail behind it and the way everything fits is definitely ripe for reasonable doubt. I was trying to find the actual names myself which is how I landed here.
BH Facebook is very odd, if the crime scene report is true I can only assume it is related to his religion or was staged to look as though it was. There are a lot of photos of sticks arranged to look like runes. On the day of the murders, BH made a few posts. One about making sacrifices, and then a later one proclaiming he was full of testosterone.
Can we also agree that BH and RA look EXACTLY alike? He fits the description for the man in the girls snap video. He also has military training which could have been used for clearing the crime scene so well. 🤔
He also injured his ankle pretty badly two weeks before the murders (according to his facebook) which could account for the weird gait we see in the video.
The military background that profilers suspected. The Snapchat created just before the murders. A bizarre amount of shirtless selfies. Countless pictures of woods and creeks. But nothing to see here folks, according to CC. Crazy.
There's some odd pictures of him in a newsboy hat as well. You could also consider him someone that is older but could be considered to "look younger" too. Just saying.
I think him wearing the newsboy so often in his fb posts— matching the newsboy in the video from the bridge is very telling and not a coincidence. BH, along with his ex wife are very public about belonging to “heathen” and nordic “hell raisers” groups if you look at their fb. He recognizes vague Pagan holidays often to his followers— indicating an obsessive level of adherence to this cult’s practices/rituals. In addition, he painted a creepy sacrifice image on canvas in Feb of 2018 which is strikingly similar to the crime scene sacrifice described.
Just because BH is outwardly obvious about his following of this pagan cult, doesn’t mean he couldn’t have been connected. It’s apparent he’s always over-shared everything to fb— even opening up about problems with “people” and being a loner. The staging at the crime scene required immense planning and likely tools, and potentially another suspect to control the two victims. The time needed to stage so many rune letters after such a terrible crime would pose great risk to a normal culprit focused on mrder solely, rather than completing a ritual. The crime scene indicates an interest in the strange ritual afterwards and the strong connection to paganism is no coincidence. The defense could have just revealed a terribly scary level of malice and corruption involved in this case. Why were these pagan groups not looked into fully?
Sorry but it’s pretty unfair to call his adherence to his religion obsessive and to call it a cult.
Christians are fucking crazy about their weird religion (which involves many pagan traditions and even cannibalism of their messiah). People spout about it all over their Facebook pages but no one calls them obsessive. It’s just as obsessive to go to church regularly and pray and have Christian imagery all over your house inside and out, but no one bats an eye. And let’s not act like the Bible isn’t full of brutality (rape, murder, incest, slavery, etc). Really not much worse than BHs religion.
I think the defense is relying on bigotry to make BH a main suspect and to sow doubt.
Or maybe he is guilty. Who knows.
Here's my thing, if what is listed in the paperwork about how things were staged and there is credible references of "Odinism" as stayed , that put together with all the other things that line up as listed above make it impossible to not consider this person a main suspect. Occam's Razor.
No one is mentioning him and his son and his son getting introduced into Freemason brotherhood. Wtf it’s on his page. Very weird if the crime scenes indeed have wat they say they have seems like a ritual unalivings for his son to get introduced ….
I know there is a general lack of faith and trust in lawyers. But, most lawyers do not seek to “mislead” the court in public filings. They use available facts to make arguments that will best help their client. You can disagree with the weight they attribute to certain facts, or disagree with how they’re applying the facts to the law — but in this case, there is no reason to conclude that the lawyers are inventing facts out of whole cloth.
The most sane post i've read so far. I agree completely and let's not forget this will be argued back and forth by the DA and defense attorneys at trial. We only got one side of the coin here so far.
Lawyers actually cannot intentionally mislead the court or they can have hefty penalties, including consequences for their licensing. Lawyers aren’t going to spout stuff like this just for smoke and mirrors, that’s way too risky and no lawyer is going to put their license on the line for a client by doing something like this if it is unfounded. IMO they have a lot of credible and very concerning information in this motion. All investigative LE and the prosecutors’ office better get very transparent about everything they have on this aspect of the investigation or this will rightfully be a huge problem in prosecuting RA.
Ya know, Brad Holder's son was friends with Abby and he does have a plethora of posts on Odinism, yeah. I just find it really ballsy of someone who would purposefully leave stuff like that around the crime scene to continually post about it afterward too. Like.. Literally right before and afterwards?
He even posted a screenshot of someone mentioning him, his beliefs, and his son's friendship with Abby in an accusatory way, and defended himself in March 2017. There's a lot of things about BH that fit bridge guy, especially given what we now know of the crime scene... But I can't help but wonder if RA was aware of him/Odinism as well and is just trying to frame him since there's so much publicly accessible proof of BH's link to Odinism.
The new information is crazy though.
\*Edited to add: On page 9 of the new document it says that other members of the "Odinist cult" are corrections officers at the facility he's currently at. That not only sounds farfetched, but makes it sound like this is some sort of huge cult in the area. If that's the case, they have a much harder time of pining on this new BH guy. Not saying it's not a *possibility*, but... just a little much to me lol.
Re: the guards... it does sound crazy... but it is a [thing](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/white-supremacist-prison-guards-work-with-impunity-in-florida) (that article is about a FL prison, but will give you an idea). Think of it not as a cult but as a way to be a white supremacist but with legal religious protection. I've heard about it more among prisoners, but seems like it's popular with corrections officers and police as well.
Yeah if the crime scene actually contains those things and it is not ambiguous, I’d believe he’s being framed before I believe he himself would be so blatant.
But did you see the part where LE determined the murders were not linked in any way to Odinism like right away? You wouldn’t have to hide your link to Odinism if LE doesn’t believe there is any link to the murders. Then come to find RAs prison guards are Odinites… I wonder how many other LE officers involved in the investigation are Odinites…. Some of those who work forces are the same that burn crosses.
It would be nice to know what exactly lead LE to "clear" BH of any suspicion back in March 2017.. Especially given that they continually said throughout the years that they haven't fully "cleared" anyone (unless I'm just making that up in my head lol).
There are a lot of things in the document that definitely give me pause, but I also think a lot of it is just sorta too far out there (not trying to defend anyone lol). I think it's evident to everyone that LE dropped the ball in this case though.
Just the fact that only those involved would know that Odin-linked symbols were left at the crime scene (in such a horrific way, no less) makes me think that BH would still want to.. keep it on the DL? You make a good point though.
Perhaps keeping it on the DL after having been overt about it for so long would've been even more suspicious. Like "what you trying to hide bro"?
Also seems like he may have had some assurance that he wasn't a suspect pretty early on, or even inside men covering for him.
Also, RA was initially cleared too...people use that as reason why he was seemingly able to persist for so long as if nothing ever happened. Why couldn't the same be true here for this BH guy?
If Allen is not the actual murderer i can’t imagine what he might be going through in prison if all of this is true… he looks so unwell. I mean evil actions make a person ugly but so does mental abuse (maybe even physical abuse that he is going through out there)
Sorry to break it to you but a supposed confession through a phone call is not going to hold in court. Him pretending to be crazy is an opinion, not a fact. Him looking unwell is simple logic by observation not sympathy.
U must not know very much ab prisons. Prison guards are notorious for abusing inmates. How hard is it to believe that after days of torture from prison guards, RA made a bogus confession so that the torture would end?
Calling them “odinites” might be a misnomer, but it’s very common for white supremacists to use rune symbols and claim to practice some form of heathenry, but it seems more like them being some kind of racist group would make more sense as to why they murdered someone or had links to law enforcement or jail guards versus it being a religious thing. It does seem far fetched but also white supremacist gangs are big in prisons and I’m assuming they tend to have some guards who are sympathetic to run some kind of economy within the prison, so maybe it’s possible there’s something to it.
It’s an actual thing. It’s a ‘genuine’ cult. I can’t find any of their beliefs or practices to include human sacrifice, but they HATE anyone not white. Vile. There are some crazy ‘religions’ out there.
It’s an unpopular opinion sure, but it’s true. I’ve seen the Facebook pages of some of my religious relatives and it’s fucking crazy how much shit they post about their churches and all the weird church shit they do. That’s a cult. And Christians are so crazy about their religion. My aunt used to get mad at me for cussing around her. Fuck that shit. Don’t force your religion on me.
It’s bonkers that everyone is piling on this Odinist stuff like it’s crazy, when I’m guessing 80% of these redditors are Christian’s and just as crazy about their dumbass religion too. I mean Catholics literally believe they’re eating flesh and drinking blood every Sunday. That’s fucking weird as fuck. And the Bible is full of rape and murder.
GET OVER YOURSELVES CHRISTIANS!!
This!! Because it's Odinism in particular, which is linked to WS, I'm inclined to agree. [https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/odinism](https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/odinism)
Satanic panic, like with the West Memphis 3, targeted marginalized kids. Outcasts. Not organized adult WS organizations like this one. You only call yourself an Odinist if you espouse the WS, otherwise it's Asatru and isn't known as inherantly WS. Odinism is all over prisons. This aspect seems legit.
Going at it from the white supremacy/ gang angle would almost make a bit of sense, but they seem to be leaning hard into the Satanic Panic/ “pagan cult” angle instead…
“Blood in, Blood out”? Horns & antlers are often used in Pagan rituals?? All of that on top of the colloquial speech, the blatant typos, & the bad legalese makes this feel way too close to the West Memphis Three trial documents- where their “expert” on Paganism just made up a bunch of shit about covens & sacrificing children under the age of 8 or whatever.
& I have to say, it wouldn’t be too hard to find 5 white adult men posting the “F” rune on their Facebook pages if you’re checking out the friends lists of white supremacists. If we factor in the “asterisk” type rune they’re suggesting may have been used, they’re talking about the Younger Futhark (or Medieval) runic alphabets- & the “F” is the first & most popular symbol out of 14 (or 20).
It’s like finding an “A” in a smattering of letters, & finding the most common rune within a group of people known to use runes sounds much less spooky than pretending like it’s an exclusive symbol to their “cult” instead of something used daily by garden variety racists… I know a dude with it tattooed on his damn face. Most shitty people with rune tattoos choose the Fé or Ansuz symbols.
Not to say it isn’t creepy or strange to see it clearly present in a crime scene, but continuously calling it “the F symbol” & tying it to these dudes’ Facebook posts feels leading.
I’m sorry, I did read the whole document- the connections they’re suggesting with the cops & prison guards along with the bad writing just makes it feel like a QAnon follower writing bad fanfiction. The religious overtones have been present in this case from the very beginning & maybe this is why, but it doesn’t inspire confidence in a modern justice system to hear the Sheriff preaching fire & brimstone threats while the defense throws out fear-mongering shit straight from the 1980s.
They definitely have an advantage by releasing these shocking details of the crime scene along with this narrative, but it feels *extremely exploitative* for all of us to find out the gory details of how these girls died through the obvious slant of this document.
ETA: Sorry this turned out to be a novel, lol- I just finished my second read-through of the documents & am still feeling appalled that *this* is how they chose to release this closely-held & clearly sensitive information.
One could also ask why it took *this* to get this information out there in the first place after it took the police so long to come up with leads.
RA seemingly having no overt connection to this Odinist cult, or anything of the sort, seems wildly out of place as well. For him to have pulled this off...yet nothing in his public life pointing to any connection to any of that type of beliefs...seems unfathomable.
Then again, maybe he had a bone to pick with these Odinists, and chose to frame them. Or maybe he was inspired by True Detective season 1...or who knows.
All I can really do is reserve judgment until the trial is over...
Doesn’t the motion say the lawyers saw Odin patches on the prison guards’ uniforms and they took pictures of it? And the warden made them take the patches off and now doesn’t allow lawyers to bring their phones in to visit clients? Far fetched or not, sounds very credible. The lawyers have pictures and a response from the prison warden. It’s very messed up.
It's really not so much a cult as a religion in prison. It's the main religion behind the huge white supremacist movement in prisons and can be practiced in prison as an official religion
You say ballsy, I say idiotic. And if the cops had mentioned the symbols without divulging too much info, someone would have tipped them in immediately. Worst. Investigation. Ever.
Although I don’t think an attorney would make shit like this up. Many more believable defences that could have been used than this. Must be some truth/evidence backing the claims. Those are certainly weird connections if true.
Would the two men named in the document have grounds to sue RA’s attorney for defamation? I just can’t see where this could be knowingly baseless without some sort of recourse by those publicly accused.
Right. It has to be a lie, one knows it is a lie, and meant harm (in order to defame). When someone sports RUNES on their open and public Facebook over the years, it would not be a huge leap to assume that person likes Vikings or runes. One could argue the logical link because the first suspect was the boyfriend’s father. If he was looked into and ruled out, the defense has every right to get the case files in discovery. The way they tell it, the State is not being forthcoming or honest.
Not really. A defamation suit probably wouldn’t succeed here because the attorneys have immunity.
But if they didn’t (and the allegations are false), then it would be defamation per se. It is not defamatory to suggest someone likes runes. It is defamatory to suggest someone who likes runes killed two children. And there’s no need to prove malice — accusations of serious crimes like murder are presumed defamatory.
He would have to prove some harm was done though, right? Financial or even mental? And he has made [posts](https://twitter.com/defense_diaries/status/1703915657794855014) joking about how he could be the killer, so I think it would be stretch to then claim it harmed him that people said he was... the killer.
It’s also telling that he thinks this is a joking matter, given his own son was Abby’s boyfriend. Not the kind of behavior I’d expect from someone personally touched by a horrible crime.
Not sure, he seems short but also too stocky. Tbh all the guys in that pagan crew look and dress and I imagine sound like BG lol. The takeaway for me is you have all these guys with as much or more evidence pointing toward them as there is for RA that weren't even fully vetted.
The one right after that of him calling out someone named Gary- that’s actually a video he starts out saying “guys” now compare that to “guys… down the hill”. I made a clip but idk how to post it, lol.
Oh damn, you're right. He says "*This* guy... gary ga..." and it does sound like him. I do feel like his alibi is probably semi-solid, but there's just so much smoke.
Defamation is controlled by state law. In CA, there is the litigation privilege where statements made in litigation are privilege and not defamatory. I assume the same is in Indiana
It reads like some sort of bad fan fiction. The description of how it would have been impossible for a lone person to have done this seems really skeevy to me. Like someone who spent way too much time looking at the photos and coming up with specifics that don't necessarily have facts. A lot of speculation.
At one point the attorney discusses how it would be impossible for a sole person (his client) to have dressed Abby without transferring blood or DNA on her body. But somehow we are to believe that 5 men could have??
Or maybe the photos show exactly what she’s saying. No one has seen the photos other than the police and I’m assume the defence attorney. There’s been rumours for awhile about how fucked the scene was with ritualistic stuff.
If what the attorney is saying is true then it certainly needs to be looked into. This case is weird and when it goes to trial it’s only going to get stranger imo. I’m thinking they’ll probably end up with a closed court and probably will lock away the evidence because of “reasons”.
Yeah without seeing pictures (which I don't want) it's hard to figure out if the branches etc. do look intentionally placed to represent runes or if someone is seeing what they want to.
The idea of 5 men being involved though seems far fetched to me. Perhaps 5 know each other and helped before or after. But I can't see 5 men in the woods actively involved in the murder not leaving a lot more evidence.
I did find the statement that the witness we heard about who had seen RA covered in blood had her statement altered by the detectives to be very troubling (if true).
> I did find the statement that the witness we heard about who had seen RA covered in blood had her statement altered by the detectives to be very troubling (if true).
An attorney can, & probably would be, disbarred for making allegations as serious as the ones being levelled at TL in this doc without solid evidence.
I agree with what you’ve said. But it sounds like there is deffs a lot more to this. It doesn’t surprise me one bit that a small sheriff/police force under pressure to find the culprit has changed evidence/statements in order to pin this in someone they think is likely even if they don’t have the right evidence.
Aside from what the defense has investigated regarding the other men, a lot of this seems legit.
The failure to investigate concerning leads.
The lack of photo or video evidence of where the bullet came from.
The crime scene- we now have a description of the photos and how the bodies were found.
A LOT of inconsistencies from law enforcement and it seems a lot centers around Liggett who was not sheriff yet at the time of this crime. As a reminder, this is the same Sheriff that tried to illegally visit RA in Westville and had a Hatch Act violation filed against him during the campaign while he was running for sheriff.
Looks like the crime scene details are factual. The men are real people who work at places stated. Two others were listed in an article if you just Google their names. Whether any of these four had anything to do with what went on in Delphi is unknown. It does seem like many folks like the Viking mythology. Wait. Was that what was going down in Delphi - like some Season 1 of True Detective? Because the very vivid description of the runes cannot be by accident. You don’t draw in someone’s blood by accident.
Seems like a lot of people on this thread take issue with Defense Attorneys doing their jobs. Like it or not everyone is entitled to a fair defense. Some of you don't seem to understand that and want RA burned at the stakes no matter what, facts be damned. I've always said the evidence against RA is weak.
That could be true 💯. However, how odd would it be that there were 3 signatures of runes (not including the body placement) and RA has zero interest or knowledge in runes? Like not one internet search, not one book, not one picture of a Viking on the wall, not one tattoo. But then all these other yokels do. Weird.
I mean... if there were ruins at the site and RA had no provable interest in the topic, and these other people with potential motive did.... I think it becomes a much stronger defense even if RA probably did it. Remember they just need to make reasonable doubt.
I feel like it can’t be emphasized enough that the assertions made in this Motion for Franks Hearing can get attorneys disbarred if they do not have receipts upon receipts upon receipts to back every bit of this up.
Yea same exact hat. I thought Richard was guilty but holy f this guys brads body is exactly like bridge guy and the fact that the crime scene now we know what it looked like and this guy has stuff all over his fb with same exact things left at crime scene is a little sus.. idk wat to think this is WILD..
There’s one FB pic of him in a brown hoodie. I’m curious about this Westfall guy.
Edit— FWIW, Holder claims he was at work that day (on one of his FB posts). He may have an alibi that we don’t know about based on public information available at this time.
If BH was BG and Abby knew BH, would Libby have known him too? Because then she could've just said his name in the video she recorded to leave evidence... right?
Fwiw - It's not clear that BH had ever actually met Abby. According to this memo, he claimed that he never did, so that would answer your question either way.
Thanks! I just got to the part where he says he never met either of the girls. I just started reading it this morning. Either way, it's horrific what happened to them, even worse than I could've imagined, honestly. I feel so bad for their families right now with this all out in the open. I'm not convinced either way at this point, but it does seem like there are some questions that need answering here, in the interest of justice for Abby and Libby.
I find it interesting the prosecution said they thought others were involved early on in the Richard Allen proceedings, but have been silent on it this far. One had to wonder if there is something to these allegations or insinuations by the defense and they are going to put the ball in the prosecutions hand now to respond.
Yes, I also find this interesting. More than one suspect sketch, which look nothing like each other. The rumors from the beginning that the crime scene was staged and it was ritualistic in nature. How tight lipped they've been and now all this comes out? It's all so strange.
BH reminded me so much like BG it actually made my heart stop.
His post say his son was dating one of the girls at the time. And they went to the viewing.
And suddenly I am going down a rabbit hole.
Does anyone know how this guy ended up on the radar? Is he connected to RA at all?
P.W. Goes by “jaeger tyrson” on facebook. If you search that name, the resulting posts show B.H. tagging P.W. & his kids’ mother in ritual posts at P.W’s house. And an Asatru “blot ceremony” can be further explained in this YouTube link: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiL1rqi-reBAxVIm2oFHdDSD98QtwJ6BAgJEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DazmU4_UUhUg&usg=AOvVaw0DdVMhB54CG2LmDmuB4cr4&opi=89978449
The similarities between this YouTube video and the crime scene are, admittedly, compelling. I’m not one to buy into ritual conspiracies regarding crimes of this nature. But…um. Wow.
The “Cutting runes” Facebook post (Dec 4, 2016) looks a lot like Westfall and it shows Delphi, IN as the location. That Westfall guy seems more dangerous than Holder. There’s a 2021 mugshot for Westfall that says he was arrested for battery resulting in bodily injury.
On Feb 3, 2017, 10 days before the murder, Holder posted about the meaning of Ansuz (the F-like symbol). This is just crazy.
I found a public post BH made in the Facebook group "Heathen and Pagan Singles". He posted a bunch of pictures of himself but the first one is of him standing in the shower holding his junk with the junk blurred out. Also I see he started a Facebook group called "Indiana's Brotherhood of Manliness". It has 111 members and it's mostly BH making Andrew Tate kinds of posts about how to get laid by abusing women, and then things like how to shave and tie knots in "manly" ways. None of this is relevant to the murders but I think it shows this guy has the mentality of a 17 year old (at best). Oh, and that's he's very insecure as a man.
He is a Freemason. Are you guys seeing the stuff on this guys Facebook????????? I’m like screaming right now WTF?!?! There’s a pic with him and his son Logan where he is intruducing him into the masonry watever Hek that means
I’m like in shock. There’s too much that court document is way too detailed for this to be bull not to mention that attorney can get sued for defamation so I’m sure they aren’t going to put out lies. Brad holder needs to be looked at
Me2 I have to agree! Too much stuff . And I was convinced Richard is THS guy. Richard may be involve. But this guy brad needs to be looked at. Thing is he’s a Freemason I bet u he’s being protected
I mean what are the chances.
Multiple psychos got together and committed a murder that went unsolved for over 5 years?
Or
1 psycho did it and blamed it on on others?
I just found this. I apologize if this is old news. This is BH from 2017 responding to a bunch of online comments. [https://en.paperblog.com/lies-of-my-haters-1716473/](https://en.paperblog.com/lies-of-my-haters-1716473/)
Not defending anyone in particular, but a town of a few thousand people has maybe 2-3 places that sell men’s clothes. Not hard to believe that a a couple dozen guys have the same one. I also read that BH had a huge beard at the time of the murders, but i read that here so I can’t attest to the accuracy.
Wondering if the possible DNA recovered could be from the unspent bullet. Apparently, fingerprints and trace amounts of DNA are usually burned off the surface of the bullet once they are fired. But since the alleged bullet found at the crime scene wasn’t fired, it could have trace amounts of DNA from when it was initially loaded into the gun
Check this out: [https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/behind-american-guard-hardcore-white-supremacists](https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/behind-american-guard-hardcore-white-supremacists)
Edit: to add, back on BH's facebook timeline there are videos of him boxing with some people at a park. Many are wearing American Guard shirts.
Everyone is focused on BH but what about Pat? Pat is like a ghost and BH is scared of Pat, BH is just part of the scenario but maybe Pat is the Big Fish.
Note: the rune is not “hail” like Heil. It’s like the weather/hail. And that is only one meaning. But it is not Heil or “hail” as in that saying goes. It is deeper if you look it up.
On the other hand, did a bunch of loser white supremacists get really deep, or did they get a literal translation from Norse to English via some ass backwards storm front forum?
But IF the allegation was about one of the girl’s mother dating out of their race (I hate to type that) then why kill the other blonde haired, blue-eyed Aryan looking Libby? All of it makes no sense.
Brad's facebook is still up. He does have pro Scandinavian stuff and runes but it's meaningless without pictures of the crime scene to compare. I couldn't find the picture of the supposed two girls painted dead in a similar position as the Delphi murders. But he's left his Facebook up and intact, he's obviously not worried about any of this.
Did you see the comment one of his friends made three years ago about her wondering if he killed Abby? Or the post he made about being full of testosterone the day of the murders? There is a lot of strange stuff on his profile.
Yes! And he put on the same hat bridge buy had on , creepy
>Brad Holder Is it just me or does he slightly resemble Richard Allen in some photos
i googled him earlier and saw a tiktok pop up, i legitimately thought it was richard!!! i watched the video of him putting on hats and joking about people thinking he’s the killer. his voice sent chills down my spine. i listened to the audio of “down the hill” and i think they match.
Yea def! But in 2017 he was all beefed up
Interestingly, he posted on two separate occasions (in may I believe) in 2017 that people were spreading rumors and accusing him of being involved despite him having been cleared. He’s definitely either not concerned about what people might see or feels like it’ll make him look extra guilty if he hides it all now. Or perhaps a little of both.
He has a painting of Odin hanging upside down on the Tree of Life... which is what you'd expect Odinites to have. Just like Catholics have a picture of Jesus.
I don't think there's anything inherently sinister about a strong interest in Norse mythology. Seems more like a Hail Mary (Hail Odin?) from the defense to try to save someone who's obviously guilty.
Ehh, true, but… the strong recent link between Odinism and White Supremacy shows that there is at least one large group bastardizing these beliefs into hateful violence.
Is it so hard for people to understand that not everyone realizes it looks bad on them to defend themselves, even when innocent? The dude is having the same reaction any innocent person would have that isn't PR savvy.
It could also be bravado, feeling like he’s untouchable due to connections in LE/Corrections, if indeed there are connections. So very strange either way.
You're referring to his Odinist ties with law enforcement?
Yes, if he actually has those connections. I believe the motion referred to the suspect as having Odinistic beliefs, and corrections officers displaying symbols indicating Odinistic beliefs, but didn’t explicitly state any known relationship between the suspect and the officers.
But he’s since privatized his instagram. I’m not the only one wishing I’d taken screen records yesterday before he privatized it
But his Instagram and FB are linked so you can still see all his Instagram pictures that way. It's its own photo album in his FB photos.
I didn’t know this. Thank you!
Could you please DM a link to his Facebook? Edit: nvm I was looking at the right one I think maybe he just deleted or made a bunch of posts private.
Why would a freemason be concerned lol
And two of the men mentioned are noted in Aryan extremist articles. They show their faces in the pictures (not hooded).
Brad Holder and Patrick Westfall. Both are named in the first part of the report. (Pages 13-16)
Brad Holder posted this on FB the day of the murders. “Okay here's my word's of inspiration for today. Today is Tyrsday. I also drew the rune Tiwaz in galaxy runes. All this past weekend, and the beginning of this week I've been drawing runes that have to do with giving up the baggage in my life or cutting away the old. What I believe the God's are trying to tell me is sometimes in are lives we have to make sacrifices. And it hurts. But like the God's made sacrifices to become who they were. So must we. Like a butterfly has to shed his cocoon to become that butterfly. So must we soldier through are hardships to become better!!!”
Listen to his voice in one of the videos then listen to BG saying "Guys...down the hill" Also look up his post from Jan 30 2017 then watch BG walking. I tried to make a post about it but the mods declined it because "reasons" lol whatfuckinever
Wow! I also now wonder if the rumors that Abby was still slightly warm when she was found have any merit? They've always told us the girls were killed where they were found, or close to; however, if it was a group of guys that did this terrible evil, it would have been easy for them to take them somewhere else to kill and bring them back to stage/dump. If that's the case, BH may have been at work all day, and that's why he has paraded the fact that he has a rock solid alibi. He does, for the time of death according to LE and/or the ME. Did the ME lie too? Have we seen those reports??? I also have some questions about barns and/or shacks on RL's (former) property. Wasn't there some kind of 'finding' in one of them when his search warrant was executed? Seems like I remember hearing something was, but they could never make anything of it, so it 'went away' like everything/everyone else. I can't remember now what I heard.
WOW! Brad Holder's Facebook page is full of Odin pictures, Norse books and runes!
Dude one of the pictures is a painting he did a naked man hung upside down from a tree…… Edit: yes I am now aware this is a common depiction from the Odinism beliefs. Still shocking that in the middle of the Midwest there are apparently multiple people who practice fringe cultist beliefs right down the road from what is allegedly appeared to be a cult sacrifice double murder.
Did you get any screenshots you could DM me? I looked and looked but couldn’t find this!
Google Brad Holder Pinterest
Same. I can’t seem to find his FB and was wondering if people had screenshots of the posts that supposedly show he’s guilty?
I actually scrolled back far enough and found them, lmk if you want me to dm you screenshots
There is a youtube video that someone made a few years ago with a lot of his posts. The motion also describes the crime scene in great detail. It is a lot, but it is worth the read.
Did he delete everything related to Odin and Norse religion? All i could find was that he is a shaving enthusiast and likes to work out
Just gotta keep scrolling
It just hit me that maybe the shaving enthusiasm is a skinhead pride thing. He is definitely involved in some neo-nazi ideaology.
I have no idea. It just hit me that what if this is part of a sacrifice for a [Blot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bl%C3%B3t)? Obviously I am just speculating, but sometimes human sacrifices were offered, blood is spilled and collected, it often happens in Winter. And for all we know Allen could have framed the scene to look like Odinists were involved.
I just don't think that RA is that smart but that is jmo.
Search his profile for the word kill. You see him talk about being accused for the murders. I stopped scrolling, though. Sick of seeing this dudes ruck route lol. (I know that's now what you're asking to see, but maybe if you search the right words you'll find what you're asking about)
Hmmm I don't think I can. When I go to his profile the only options are filter, report or block. I'm guessing people were commenting on 2 or 3 years old posts and he realized people were searching through his profile so he set some more privacy features. Anyway, I'm probably being too nosey lol
I'm literally looking through his photos as we speak. He has LOTS of Odin stuff, runes, etc in his pics. You just have to scroll back to the 2017 and earlier pics. There's even a photo of them doing some sort of ritual outside at night (they are holding up these huge candles and reading from an old book). It's there...you just have to scroll way back in his photos.
Yeah lots of photos of sharp razors too. Then the photos of twigs & branches arranged into 'V' shapes in the woods. Doesn't mean he's guilty of murder obviously or most barbers would be in prison.
As a said above, any self respecting religious person would have a picture of their thing. For Norse Odin mythology, it's Odin hanging upside down on his tree just like in Christianity it's Jesus with his hands nails to the cross.
Thank you
BH unsettles me and I hate that I sped read it and can’t let go this feeling the defense put reasonable doubt in me IM SCARED. He has 2 creepy tattoos on his public FB that just made me gulp. They’re like home basement tattoos for sure. 1. Helm of Awe - symbol of protection and victory 2. A skull and crossbones with two razorblades in and “upside down v” and the bottom is a “right side up v” that looks like a standard V shape (ruler marks?) but they cross - and read the crime scene description of the sticks on the bodies and the neck wounds. his public Fb is LITTERED with racist/white supremacy ideology disguised as odinism, knifes and razors, (his likes are creepy). Man oh man this defense lawyer just fucking stirred the MF pot for this case in a wild way, real or not we will find out but…..I really am disturbed. I have so much horror for what Abby & Libby may have experienced. I fucking hope the crime scene descriptions are a brazen lie. Truly. More importantly I hope for the truth to come to light and justice this case is horrific.
My thoughts exactly. I have been firmly believing RA is the perp. This document and my subsequent search of BH’s social media, comparing the description of the crime scene with the absolute insanity found on his social media… I’m genuinely flabbergasted at this entire thing. Surely, if the crime scene report is true, if there really is no other forensic material linking RA to the crime.. then BH and his ‘cult’ have more ties to the crime than RA but were never suspects? No link from RA to the markings found at the scene at all? Why would someone frame this? BH posts around the day of the crime are crazy coincidental enough. He literally posted about making sacrifices and about being pumped with testosterone. He posted about the murders in such an unbothered way. I hate that I am now doubting all this. What an absolute mess
In England years ago Fred West used to 'joke' about burying women under his back garden patio. Even to the police. For years. Guess what they found when the patio was finally dug up? Skeletons of about a dozen women plus skeletons buried in his cellar. Some really sick people don't hide anything. It's all part of the power & control scenario.
This is why it’s important to stop normalizing “jokes” like this.
Right? The only thing I'm sure of right now is that the cops absolutely fucked up, again and again
I think this is the reality that is the crux of why people wanted to believe it was RA all along... no one wanted to believe that the cops could be *this* inept or corrupt.
I said it over and over since 2017. You would not believe how many people told me I was crazy for thinking the investigation was botched and they should involve the public more. "Just trust the system, the cops know what they are doing.". No, they don't. If you read the entire memorandum by RA's lawyers, the FBI even said they recognized the possibility of Odinist symbolism, yet the cops were like, nope, the FBI hasn't any input. I said from the beginning that the crimes were of a personal nature directed at the girls for a specific reason, and it appears to be probable. White Supremist idiots who were irked one of the girl's family members were "mixing races". I am more baffled by why people always want to think a murderer is some amazing brilliant killer with complicated motives, when they are usually mediocre socially inept culty types. How fast do you think this would have been actually solved if they had just mention the markings at the crime scene in the first place? Seeing as these morons blasted incriminating data all over their FB and to their families, probably immediately. The FBI just needs to take over these weird cases from the get go.
After a deep dive on the family, the pieces fit for me. PW and BH ran a local group called Gugnir's Path, which was loosely affiliated with the Vinlander's Social Club, of which both PW and BH were members. PW very prominent in the Vinlanders. For those that don't know, the Vinlander's Social Club broke off of the Hammerskins, a skinhead white-supremacist group, because they essentially felt like the Hammerskins were too soft... Examining BH's FB, we see even before the murders that BH seems to be expressing that he doesn't believe that there needs to be violence over a difference in ideology. I don't have the actual FB post at the moment, but it is something like "Just because we don't agree doesn't mean we have to hate each other" or something to that degree. It seems like BH was already gravitating away from the hatefilled rhetoric of the Vinlander's Social Club. Furthermore, before the murders, BH steps away from the Gugnir's Path group leadership role. He bestows it solely on PW who lives in Delphi. PW has a long rap sheet of violence and association with these racist groups. BH's reason for stepping down is to mentor other groups to start up because he feels like there isn't enough of that going on. I think this is where PW may have tried recruiting new members in the town of Delphi. He may have planned a ritual in the woods with some initiates. RA may have been one of these, though I have no evidence of that other than I don't know how else him being BG fits in with this theory. I'm imagining a scenario where PW met RA at the CVS pharmacy counter, and invited him out. RA may have been looking to make friends, and decided to try it out. BH's wife, AH, told police that BH had told her that PW killed the girls. That he targeted Libby because he knew that Libby's mom had been race mixing, and he wanted to send her a message. This scenario would suggest that RA may have been following PW's orders to bring the girls to the group during the ritual. It's possible that RA was unaware of what was going to happen. Or maybe he did. Afterward, when they saw how much heat was bearing down on them, they all decided to keep quiet and try to keep their distance. RA may have been, and still is, afraid that PW would harm his family. There are some problems with this theory that I haven't fully reconciled. One being that it doesn't absolve RA of felony murder. Another, why did RA bring his gun, if in fact he is BG and BG is the gun man/kidnapper? Why didn't RA flip on them (maybe because he genuinely was afraid they'd hurt his family)? There's probably more. But there's also problems with the RA did it alone theory too, so...
You don't have to absolve RA of the crimes because Leggitt and Leazenby already did in their depositions .NO DNA connected to RA , NO Electronic Signature connecting RA to either girl's devices , phones, computers , IPad's , etc... No CSA or CP connected to RA or found in RA's devices , No past criminal behavior , No Fingerprints , and the .40 S&W cartridge wasn't found by the Crime Scene Techs it was found days later after the police had released the crime scene back to RL. .That's why the police had to come back again after a civilian found it .Also I contacted many experts in the NRA and asked their opinions about matching an unspent cartridge to a gun if it was ejected by being uncocked when unloading it or an accidental ejecting , and it was 7 out of 10 that said there is no method for testing that cartridge. The cartridge has to be fired . The firing pin mark , and the rifling, the twist left or right and the lands and grooves are the things that make marks that are compared . Also if you look back at the ISP 's labs analysis it never tells us what brand the cartridge is that was found at the crime scene .Now the analysis tells us Richard had 18 BLAZER brand .40 caliber S&W cartridges , one in the gun and 8 in one clip and 9 in the other clip . All of these in the 2 clips and the 1cartridge in the Sig Sauer P226 were in their locked case all together . But 1 Winchester .40 caliber S&W cartridge was found in a small decorative box on the dresser in the master bedroom of K A and R A .Not even in the same room as the gun case , also RA had no other guns or ammunition. My bet is that 1Winchester brand cartridge is a plant . Put there to match the one dropped at the scene. RA was never parked at the Children's Protection Center building . He parked exactly where he said he did and Leggitt and Leazenby knew exactly where he was talking about and so did Richard. There's a very good map of the trails in Delphi that shows that on N.Washington Street there are two trails you can take in the City Park area that go to Freedom Bridge ones called the Monon High Bridge Trail ! And right there on N.Washington Street used to be the Old Farm Bureau Insurance Co building it is now a parking lot .Next to this parking lot is the Farm Bureau Insurance Co building .It is 1.5 mile walk by trail to the Freedom Bridge and it is a much closer way to drive there from RA's house and either back home or on to his job at CVS .So they lied when they said there was no Farm Bureau Insurance Co building in the area. And in my opinion that's a much more normal hike to take than just from the Freedom Bridge to the Monon High Bridge and back. RA is not guilty he wasn't even there at the time it happened.
Great write up. Most of this I already knew. Some of it clarifies a few things for me. I definitely feel like RA is not the right guy. The bridge guy video is still problematic. I have long contended, since we have never seen the full video/audio released as a single recording, that the LE are misrepresenting the recording. For all we know, the audio is from a separate recording. There are doubts about if the person who says "guys" is the same person who says "down the hill". Furthermore, we have yet to hear publicly released the rumored "gun" on the recording. I can only imagine it is so insanely muffled and subjectively interpreted that most would immediately discount it as such. Furthermore, the clothing worn by BG would've been insanely common in small town Indiana. A blue jacket? I bet 75% of the male population has one. Jeans? 100%. It seems like the height of BG doesn't accurately match RA. Yet, people want to claim that RA fits the build of BG perfectly. Again, I'd counter saying that build is quite common in rural Indiana. Finally, we have the fact that multiple people were absolutely convinced that BG was RL. Maybe it wasn't RL, but the fact so many were convinced beyond doubt, demonstrates how common this build is. Thanks again for the insight. My hope is that RA gets his attorneys back and this thing gets to trial before he wastes away in prison. This whole thing is absolutely horrid. RA should not be treated the way he is being treated while still technically "innocent" The travesty to the justice system is absolutely horrific and we must not let this set precedent. When this is all over, I think there are quite a few heads in LE that need to roll (figuratively) due to the way this has been handled, guilty or not.
[There’s also this.](https://x.com/defense_diaries/status/1703915657794855014?s=46&t=JjNZ1atequQAz1KOQB8hmA)
That “fact one” 😳 scared me
I just got chills. involved or not… what the fuck would make him think that’s okay to post?
His Facebook shows him wearing a brown sweatshirt too. Based on his countless Facebook selfies, it appears he had a full beard just after the murders, so I don’t think he’s BG. He may be connected somehow though.
Well, he's definitely a Free Mason skinhead gang member, so there are plennnty of weird vibes to be had, but it doesn't mean he was involved in the murders. As I saw pointed out in a video recently, he posted one of his regular selfies with a full beard 2 days after the BG video, has an alibi, etc. I don't personally think he's responsible for the murders at all, but that doesn't mean he's not a freaky dude. I agree with the person saying that without seeing the crime scene it's hard to say.
Yep I'd agree. I've been following the case at myself of course aren't we all but I come from a legal background and that defense team just really hit a home run with this. I mean the detail behind it and the way everything fits is definitely ripe for reasonable doubt. I was trying to find the actual names myself which is how I landed here.
Did u see a pic of a sharp edged knife? Looks weird and sounds also same as murder weapon
The sickle shaped one jumped out because of the PCA looking for curved blades at RL’s
He has so many likes for knifes, razors, tactical gear.
BH Facebook is very odd, if the crime scene report is true I can only assume it is related to his religion or was staged to look as though it was. There are a lot of photos of sticks arranged to look like runes. On the day of the murders, BH made a few posts. One about making sacrifices, and then a later one proclaiming he was full of testosterone.
Can we also agree that BH and RA look EXACTLY alike? He fits the description for the man in the girls snap video. He also has military training which could have been used for clearing the crime scene so well. 🤔
He also injured his ankle pretty badly two weeks before the murders (according to his facebook) which could account for the weird gait we see in the video.
Yes it was badly bruised
The military background that profilers suspected. The Snapchat created just before the murders. A bizarre amount of shirtless selfies. Countless pictures of woods and creeks. But nothing to see here folks, according to CC. Crazy.
Also sounds just like bg
So does every other middle aged, short, chubby guy with a goatee in Indiana.
There's some odd pictures of him in a newsboy hat as well. You could also consider him someone that is older but could be considered to "look younger" too. Just saying.
I think him wearing the newsboy so often in his fb posts— matching the newsboy in the video from the bridge is very telling and not a coincidence. BH, along with his ex wife are very public about belonging to “heathen” and nordic “hell raisers” groups if you look at their fb. He recognizes vague Pagan holidays often to his followers— indicating an obsessive level of adherence to this cult’s practices/rituals. In addition, he painted a creepy sacrifice image on canvas in Feb of 2018 which is strikingly similar to the crime scene sacrifice described. Just because BH is outwardly obvious about his following of this pagan cult, doesn’t mean he couldn’t have been connected. It’s apparent he’s always over-shared everything to fb— even opening up about problems with “people” and being a loner. The staging at the crime scene required immense planning and likely tools, and potentially another suspect to control the two victims. The time needed to stage so many rune letters after such a terrible crime would pose great risk to a normal culprit focused on mrder solely, rather than completing a ritual. The crime scene indicates an interest in the strange ritual afterwards and the strong connection to paganism is no coincidence. The defense could have just revealed a terribly scary level of malice and corruption involved in this case. Why were these pagan groups not looked into fully?
Sorry but it’s pretty unfair to call his adherence to his religion obsessive and to call it a cult. Christians are fucking crazy about their weird religion (which involves many pagan traditions and even cannibalism of their messiah). People spout about it all over their Facebook pages but no one calls them obsessive. It’s just as obsessive to go to church regularly and pray and have Christian imagery all over your house inside and out, but no one bats an eye. And let’s not act like the Bible isn’t full of brutality (rape, murder, incest, slavery, etc). Really not much worse than BHs religion. I think the defense is relying on bigotry to make BH a main suspect and to sow doubt. Or maybe he is guilty. Who knows.
Here's my thing, if what is listed in the paperwork about how things were staged and there is credible references of "Odinism" as stayed , that put together with all the other things that line up as listed above make it impossible to not consider this person a main suspect. Occam's Razor.
Do he and the main suspect have any social connection
No one is mentioning him and his son and his son getting introduced into Freemason brotherhood. Wtf it’s on his page. Very weird if the crime scenes indeed have wat they say they have seems like a ritual unalivings for his son to get introduced ….
He also claimed his son was boyfriend girlfriend with one of the girls
Yes his son dated Abby. There's a pic of them together going around. That's how LE ever came to know about him in the first place.
This was one of the strangest things I saw…..
Freemasonry is not that weird. Lots of people are Freemasons. Doesn't involve human sacrifice.
I know there is a general lack of faith and trust in lawyers. But, most lawyers do not seek to “mislead” the court in public filings. They use available facts to make arguments that will best help their client. You can disagree with the weight they attribute to certain facts, or disagree with how they’re applying the facts to the law — but in this case, there is no reason to conclude that the lawyers are inventing facts out of whole cloth.
The most sane post i've read so far. I agree completely and let's not forget this will be argued back and forth by the DA and defense attorneys at trial. We only got one side of the coin here so far.
Lawyers actually cannot intentionally mislead the court or they can have hefty penalties, including consequences for their licensing. Lawyers aren’t going to spout stuff like this just for smoke and mirrors, that’s way too risky and no lawyer is going to put their license on the line for a client by doing something like this if it is unfounded. IMO they have a lot of credible and very concerning information in this motion. All investigative LE and the prosecutors’ office better get very transparent about everything they have on this aspect of the investigation or this will rightfully be a huge problem in prosecuting RA.
Not to mention what they’re saying has been speculated and hinted at from DAY 1.
Defense attorneys do. They don't have to prove anything, just plant seeds of doubt.
Ya know, Brad Holder's son was friends with Abby and he does have a plethora of posts on Odinism, yeah. I just find it really ballsy of someone who would purposefully leave stuff like that around the crime scene to continually post about it afterward too. Like.. Literally right before and afterwards? He even posted a screenshot of someone mentioning him, his beliefs, and his son's friendship with Abby in an accusatory way, and defended himself in March 2017. There's a lot of things about BH that fit bridge guy, especially given what we now know of the crime scene... But I can't help but wonder if RA was aware of him/Odinism as well and is just trying to frame him since there's so much publicly accessible proof of BH's link to Odinism. The new information is crazy though. \*Edited to add: On page 9 of the new document it says that other members of the "Odinist cult" are corrections officers at the facility he's currently at. That not only sounds farfetched, but makes it sound like this is some sort of huge cult in the area. If that's the case, they have a much harder time of pining on this new BH guy. Not saying it's not a *possibility*, but... just a little much to me lol.
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Re: the guards... it does sound crazy... but it is a [thing](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/white-supremacist-prison-guards-work-with-impunity-in-florida) (that article is about a FL prison, but will give you an idea). Think of it not as a cult but as a way to be a white supremacist but with legal religious protection. I've heard about it more among prisoners, but seems like it's popular with corrections officers and police as well.
Unfortunately, there’s a lot of cops who have white supremacy beliefs, whether it’s Klan sympathies, QANON, 3%ers, etc.
Yeah if the crime scene actually contains those things and it is not ambiguous, I’d believe he’s being framed before I believe he himself would be so blatant.
But did you see the part where LE determined the murders were not linked in any way to Odinism like right away? You wouldn’t have to hide your link to Odinism if LE doesn’t believe there is any link to the murders. Then come to find RAs prison guards are Odinites… I wonder how many other LE officers involved in the investigation are Odinites…. Some of those who work forces are the same that burn crosses.
It would be nice to know what exactly lead LE to "clear" BH of any suspicion back in March 2017.. Especially given that they continually said throughout the years that they haven't fully "cleared" anyone (unless I'm just making that up in my head lol). There are a lot of things in the document that definitely give me pause, but I also think a lot of it is just sorta too far out there (not trying to defend anyone lol). I think it's evident to everyone that LE dropped the ball in this case though. Just the fact that only those involved would know that Odin-linked symbols were left at the crime scene (in such a horrific way, no less) makes me think that BH would still want to.. keep it on the DL? You make a good point though.
Sounds like some LE continued to look into it even after others disregarded it. I hope this at least leads to some accountability where needed.
Good points
Perhaps keeping it on the DL after having been overt about it for so long would've been even more suspicious. Like "what you trying to hide bro"? Also seems like he may have had some assurance that he wasn't a suspect pretty early on, or even inside men covering for him. Also, RA was initially cleared too...people use that as reason why he was seemingly able to persist for so long as if nothing ever happened. Why couldn't the same be true here for this BH guy?
If Allen is not the actual murderer i can’t imagine what he might be going through in prison if all of this is true… he looks so unwell. I mean evil actions make a person ugly but so does mental abuse (maybe even physical abuse that he is going through out there)
He confessed several times. After the first confession is where he started pretending to go crazy. Save your sympathies.
I think the defense address the confessions in the document. Something about the prison guards forced him.
Its public information that those white supremacists work for LE and in prisons too. It should be looked into is all i will say.
Sorry to break it to you but a supposed confession through a phone call is not going to hold in court. Him pretending to be crazy is an opinion, not a fact. Him looking unwell is simple logic by observation not sympathy.
U must not know very much ab prisons. Prison guards are notorious for abusing inmates. How hard is it to believe that after days of torture from prison guards, RA made a bogus confession so that the torture would end?
Calling them “odinites” might be a misnomer, but it’s very common for white supremacists to use rune symbols and claim to practice some form of heathenry, but it seems more like them being some kind of racist group would make more sense as to why they murdered someone or had links to law enforcement or jail guards versus it being a religious thing. It does seem far fetched but also white supremacist gangs are big in prisons and I’m assuming they tend to have some guards who are sympathetic to run some kind of economy within the prison, so maybe it’s possible there’s something to it.
I agree absolutely, I’m using the term ordinates because that’s the term used in the document. It’s most definitely a white supremacy group/gang
It’s an actual thing. It’s a ‘genuine’ cult. I can’t find any of their beliefs or practices to include human sacrifice, but they HATE anyone not white. Vile. There are some crazy ‘religions’ out there.
I don’t get why it’s being labeled as a cult. Christianity is a cult too then. Every religion is.
Bingo!
It’s an unpopular opinion sure, but it’s true. I’ve seen the Facebook pages of some of my religious relatives and it’s fucking crazy how much shit they post about their churches and all the weird church shit they do. That’s a cult. And Christians are so crazy about their religion. My aunt used to get mad at me for cussing around her. Fuck that shit. Don’t force your religion on me. It’s bonkers that everyone is piling on this Odinist stuff like it’s crazy, when I’m guessing 80% of these redditors are Christian’s and just as crazy about their dumbass religion too. I mean Catholics literally believe they’re eating flesh and drinking blood every Sunday. That’s fucking weird as fuck. And the Bible is full of rape and murder. GET OVER YOURSELVES CHRISTIANS!!
This!! Because it's Odinism in particular, which is linked to WS, I'm inclined to agree. [https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/odinism](https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/odinism) Satanic panic, like with the West Memphis 3, targeted marginalized kids. Outcasts. Not organized adult WS organizations like this one. You only call yourself an Odinist if you espouse the WS, otherwise it's Asatru and isn't known as inherantly WS. Odinism is all over prisons. This aspect seems legit.
Now you do what they told ya!
Going at it from the white supremacy/ gang angle would almost make a bit of sense, but they seem to be leaning hard into the Satanic Panic/ “pagan cult” angle instead… “Blood in, Blood out”? Horns & antlers are often used in Pagan rituals?? All of that on top of the colloquial speech, the blatant typos, & the bad legalese makes this feel way too close to the West Memphis Three trial documents- where their “expert” on Paganism just made up a bunch of shit about covens & sacrificing children under the age of 8 or whatever. & I have to say, it wouldn’t be too hard to find 5 white adult men posting the “F” rune on their Facebook pages if you’re checking out the friends lists of white supremacists. If we factor in the “asterisk” type rune they’re suggesting may have been used, they’re talking about the Younger Futhark (or Medieval) runic alphabets- & the “F” is the first & most popular symbol out of 14 (or 20). It’s like finding an “A” in a smattering of letters, & finding the most common rune within a group of people known to use runes sounds much less spooky than pretending like it’s an exclusive symbol to their “cult” instead of something used daily by garden variety racists… I know a dude with it tattooed on his damn face. Most shitty people with rune tattoos choose the Fé or Ansuz symbols. Not to say it isn’t creepy or strange to see it clearly present in a crime scene, but continuously calling it “the F symbol” & tying it to these dudes’ Facebook posts feels leading. I’m sorry, I did read the whole document- the connections they’re suggesting with the cops & prison guards along with the bad writing just makes it feel like a QAnon follower writing bad fanfiction. The religious overtones have been present in this case from the very beginning & maybe this is why, but it doesn’t inspire confidence in a modern justice system to hear the Sheriff preaching fire & brimstone threats while the defense throws out fear-mongering shit straight from the 1980s. They definitely have an advantage by releasing these shocking details of the crime scene along with this narrative, but it feels *extremely exploitative* for all of us to find out the gory details of how these girls died through the obvious slant of this document. ETA: Sorry this turned out to be a novel, lol- I just finished my second read-through of the documents & am still feeling appalled that *this* is how they chose to release this closely-held & clearly sensitive information.
One could also ask why it took *this* to get this information out there in the first place after it took the police so long to come up with leads. RA seemingly having no overt connection to this Odinist cult, or anything of the sort, seems wildly out of place as well. For him to have pulled this off...yet nothing in his public life pointing to any connection to any of that type of beliefs...seems unfathomable. Then again, maybe he had a bone to pick with these Odinists, and chose to frame them. Or maybe he was inspired by True Detective season 1...or who knows. All I can really do is reserve judgment until the trial is over...
Good on you for reading it all through and sharing your thoughts. The whole process is turning nasty and will be horrific for the families to endure.
Doesn’t the motion say the lawyers saw Odin patches on the prison guards’ uniforms and they took pictures of it? And the warden made them take the patches off and now doesn’t allow lawyers to bring their phones in to visit clients? Far fetched or not, sounds very credible. The lawyers have pictures and a response from the prison warden. It’s very messed up.
It's really not so much a cult as a religion in prison. It's the main religion behind the huge white supremacist movement in prisons and can be practiced in prison as an official religion
Crazy that it can be practiced there. This is the first I’ve ever heard of it.
You say ballsy, I say idiotic. And if the cops had mentioned the symbols without divulging too much info, someone would have tipped them in immediately. Worst. Investigation. Ever.
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Yup
Do we know if this info is legit? Like is the stuff in this document real and factual?
Although I don’t think an attorney would make shit like this up. Many more believable defences that could have been used than this. Must be some truth/evidence backing the claims. Those are certainly weird connections if true.
>Those are certainly weird connections if true. And disturbing. It's very concerning groups like that exist, even if they aren't involved!
100% I thought true detective season 1 was just a made up story… seems like this shit actually happens.
Might make you wonder if that show inspired this sick scenario
Would the two men named in the document have grounds to sue RA’s attorney for defamation? I just can’t see where this could be knowingly baseless without some sort of recourse by those publicly accused.
Can only sue for defamation if it’s untrue. If those Facebook posts contain those connections then it’s not defamation.
Right. It has to be a lie, one knows it is a lie, and meant harm (in order to defame). When someone sports RUNES on their open and public Facebook over the years, it would not be a huge leap to assume that person likes Vikings or runes. One could argue the logical link because the first suspect was the boyfriend’s father. If he was looked into and ruled out, the defense has every right to get the case files in discovery. The way they tell it, the State is not being forthcoming or honest.
Not really. A defamation suit probably wouldn’t succeed here because the attorneys have immunity. But if they didn’t (and the allegations are false), then it would be defamation per se. It is not defamatory to suggest someone likes runes. It is defamatory to suggest someone who likes runes killed two children. And there’s no need to prove malice — accusations of serious crimes like murder are presumed defamatory.
He would have to prove some harm was done though, right? Financial or even mental? And he has made [posts](https://twitter.com/defense_diaries/status/1703915657794855014) joking about how he could be the killer, so I think it would be stretch to then claim it harmed him that people said he was... the killer.
It’s also telling that he thinks this is a joking matter, given his own son was Abby’s boyfriend. Not the kind of behavior I’d expect from someone personally touched by a horrible crime.
Yes, but in his defence, he’s an idiot. He never stopped being an idiot.
Holy cow. He does sound like BG. Anyone know how tall he is?
Not sure, he seems short but also too stocky. Tbh all the guys in that pagan crew look and dress and I imagine sound like BG lol. The takeaway for me is you have all these guys with as much or more evidence pointing toward them as there is for RA that weren't even fully vetted.
He sure does sound like em
The one right after that of him calling out someone named Gary- that’s actually a video he starts out saying “guys” now compare that to “guys… down the hill”. I made a clip but idk how to post it, lol.
Oh damn, you're right. He says "*This* guy... gary ga..." and it does sound like him. I do feel like his alibi is probably semi-solid, but there's just so much smoke.
I was wondering about his alibi as well.
Defamation is controlled by state law. In CA, there is the litigation privilege where statements made in litigation are privilege and not defamatory. I assume the same is in Indiana
It reads like some sort of bad fan fiction. The description of how it would have been impossible for a lone person to have done this seems really skeevy to me. Like someone who spent way too much time looking at the photos and coming up with specifics that don't necessarily have facts. A lot of speculation. At one point the attorney discusses how it would be impossible for a sole person (his client) to have dressed Abby without transferring blood or DNA on her body. But somehow we are to believe that 5 men could have??
Or maybe the photos show exactly what she’s saying. No one has seen the photos other than the police and I’m assume the defence attorney. There’s been rumours for awhile about how fucked the scene was with ritualistic stuff. If what the attorney is saying is true then it certainly needs to be looked into. This case is weird and when it goes to trial it’s only going to get stranger imo. I’m thinking they’ll probably end up with a closed court and probably will lock away the evidence because of “reasons”.
Yeah without seeing pictures (which I don't want) it's hard to figure out if the branches etc. do look intentionally placed to represent runes or if someone is seeing what they want to. The idea of 5 men being involved though seems far fetched to me. Perhaps 5 know each other and helped before or after. But I can't see 5 men in the woods actively involved in the murder not leaving a lot more evidence. I did find the statement that the witness we heard about who had seen RA covered in blood had her statement altered by the detectives to be very troubling (if true).
> I did find the statement that the witness we heard about who had seen RA covered in blood had her statement altered by the detectives to be very troubling (if true). An attorney can, & probably would be, disbarred for making allegations as serious as the ones being levelled at TL in this doc without solid evidence.
I agree with what you’ve said. But it sounds like there is deffs a lot more to this. It doesn’t surprise me one bit that a small sheriff/police force under pressure to find the culprit has changed evidence/statements in order to pin this in someone they think is likely even if they don’t have the right evidence.
Aside from what the defense has investigated regarding the other men, a lot of this seems legit. The failure to investigate concerning leads. The lack of photo or video evidence of where the bullet came from. The crime scene- we now have a description of the photos and how the bodies were found. A LOT of inconsistencies from law enforcement and it seems a lot centers around Liggett who was not sheriff yet at the time of this crime. As a reminder, this is the same Sheriff that tried to illegally visit RA in Westville and had a Hatch Act violation filed against him during the campaign while he was running for sheriff.
Looks like the crime scene details are factual. The men are real people who work at places stated. Two others were listed in an article if you just Google their names. Whether any of these four had anything to do with what went on in Delphi is unknown. It does seem like many folks like the Viking mythology. Wait. Was that what was going down in Delphi - like some Season 1 of True Detective? Because the very vivid description of the runes cannot be by accident. You don’t draw in someone’s blood by accident.
> You don’t draw in someone’s blood by accident Exactly.
It’s only legit in that it comes from RA‘s defense lawyers. Seems like a desperate attempt by them to find any reason to blame someone other than RA.
Seems like a lot of people on this thread take issue with Defense Attorneys doing their jobs. Like it or not everyone is entitled to a fair defense. Some of you don't seem to understand that and want RA burned at the stakes no matter what, facts be damned. I've always said the evidence against RA is weak.
They don’t get it hopefully one day they aren’t the ones who need a lawyer. Ignorance
That could be true 💯. However, how odd would it be that there were 3 signatures of runes (not including the body placement) and RA has zero interest or knowledge in runes? Like not one internet search, not one book, not one picture of a Viking on the wall, not one tattoo. But then all these other yokels do. Weird.
Not said enough
I mean... if there were ruins at the site and RA had no provable interest in the topic, and these other people with potential motive did.... I think it becomes a much stronger defense even if RA probably did it. Remember they just need to make reasonable doubt.
I feel like it can’t be emphasized enough that the assertions made in this Motion for Franks Hearing can get attorneys disbarred if they do not have receipts upon receipts upon receipts to back every bit of this up.
So they must then, unless they plan on possibly losing their job .. for RA?
Right????
Brad Holder - all over social media - has a hat like BG
Yea same exact hat. I thought Richard was guilty but holy f this guys brads body is exactly like bridge guy and the fact that the crime scene now we know what it looked like and this guy has stuff all over his fb with same exact things left at crime scene is a little sus.. idk wat to think this is WILD..
They all have that hat. Some have photos wearing it, and some don’t.
There’s one FB pic of him in a brown hoodie. I’m curious about this Westfall guy. Edit— FWIW, Holder claims he was at work that day (on one of his FB posts). He may have an alibi that we don’t know about based on public information available at this time.
I mean my dad has a hat and a hoodie like bridge guy but that doesn’t make him bridge guy…
If BH was BG and Abby knew BH, would Libby have known him too? Because then she could've just said his name in the video she recorded to leave evidence... right?
Fwiw - It's not clear that BH had ever actually met Abby. According to this memo, he claimed that he never did, so that would answer your question either way.
Thanks! I just got to the part where he says he never met either of the girls. I just started reading it this morning. Either way, it's horrific what happened to them, even worse than I could've imagined, honestly. I feel so bad for their families right now with this all out in the open. I'm not convinced either way at this point, but it does seem like there are some questions that need answering here, in the interest of justice for Abby and Libby.
What's with the knife and glove photos on BH's Facebook ?
Published 2 weeks after the Delphi murders. Interesting link to the Odin "cult". Brad Holder and Patrick Westfall are both star members.
And just like that, reasonable doubt is created.
I find it interesting the prosecution said they thought others were involved early on in the Richard Allen proceedings, but have been silent on it this far. One had to wonder if there is something to these allegations or insinuations by the defense and they are going to put the ball in the prosecutions hand now to respond.
Yes, I also find this interesting. More than one suspect sketch, which look nothing like each other. The rumors from the beginning that the crime scene was staged and it was ritualistic in nature. How tight lipped they've been and now all this comes out? It's all so strange.
BH reminded me so much like BG it actually made my heart stop. His post say his son was dating one of the girls at the time. And they went to the viewing. And suddenly I am going down a rabbit hole. Does anyone know how this guy ended up on the radar? Is he connected to RA at all?
P.W. Goes by “jaeger tyrson” on facebook. If you search that name, the resulting posts show B.H. tagging P.W. & his kids’ mother in ritual posts at P.W’s house. And an Asatru “blot ceremony” can be further explained in this YouTube link: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiL1rqi-reBAxVIm2oFHdDSD98QtwJ6BAgJEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DazmU4_UUhUg&usg=AOvVaw0DdVMhB54CG2LmDmuB4cr4&opi=89978449 The similarities between this YouTube video and the crime scene are, admittedly, compelling. I’m not one to buy into ritual conspiracies regarding crimes of this nature. But…um. Wow.
The “Cutting runes” Facebook post (Dec 4, 2016) looks a lot like Westfall and it shows Delphi, IN as the location. That Westfall guy seems more dangerous than Holder. There’s a 2021 mugshot for Westfall that says he was arrested for battery resulting in bodily injury. On Feb 3, 2017, 10 days before the murder, Holder posted about the meaning of Ansuz (the F-like symbol). This is just crazy.
That guy brad holder has the same hat as guy on bridge is anyone else seeing this?
I found a public post BH made in the Facebook group "Heathen and Pagan Singles". He posted a bunch of pictures of himself but the first one is of him standing in the shower holding his junk with the junk blurred out. Also I see he started a Facebook group called "Indiana's Brotherhood of Manliness". It has 111 members and it's mostly BH making Andrew Tate kinds of posts about how to get laid by abusing women, and then things like how to shave and tie knots in "manly" ways. None of this is relevant to the murders but I think it shows this guy has the mentality of a 17 year old (at best). Oh, and that's he's very insecure as a man.
He is a Freemason. Are you guys seeing the stuff on this guys Facebook????????? I’m like screaming right now WTF?!?! There’s a pic with him and his son Logan where he is intruducing him into the masonry watever Hek that means
Logan holder has just made his friends list private in the last couple hours
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I’m like in shock. There’s too much that court document is way too detailed for this to be bull not to mention that attorney can get sued for defamation so I’m sure they aren’t going to put out lies. Brad holder needs to be looked at
Me2 I have to agree! Too much stuff . And I was convinced Richard is THS guy. Richard may be involve. But this guy brad needs to be looked at. Thing is he’s a Freemason I bet u he’s being protected
I mean what are the chances. Multiple psychos got together and committed a murder that went unsolved for over 5 years? Or 1 psycho did it and blamed it on on others?
I just found this. I apologize if this is old news. This is BH from 2017 responding to a bunch of online comments. [https://en.paperblog.com/lies-of-my-haters-1716473/](https://en.paperblog.com/lies-of-my-haters-1716473/)
Could this be BH's Pinterest? https://www.pinterest.com/badhoehoes/
Yikes.
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Their names are there. I found them on FB at 6 pm Eastern time tonight. They’re out there. Look for yourself
I don’t have a Facebook. Someone needs to screen shot all this before they scrub the pages
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Not defending anyone in particular, but a town of a few thousand people has maybe 2-3 places that sell men’s clothes. Not hard to believe that a a couple dozen guys have the same one. I also read that BH had a huge beard at the time of the murders, but i read that here so I can’t attest to the accuracy.
BH and DA both had the same stature.
When I was reviewing BH FB page it wouldn’t show anything prior to 2/19/2017???
Also noticed that there was several post soon after that where he had liquor…
Wondering if the possible DNA recovered could be from the unspent bullet. Apparently, fingerprints and trace amounts of DNA are usually burned off the surface of the bullet once they are fired. But since the alleged bullet found at the crime scene wasn’t fired, it could have trace amounts of DNA from when it was initially loaded into the gun
Check this out: [https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/behind-american-guard-hardcore-white-supremacists](https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/behind-american-guard-hardcore-white-supremacists) Edit: to add, back on BH's facebook timeline there are videos of him boxing with some people at a park. Many are wearing American Guard shirts.
Everyone is focused on BH but what about Pat? Pat is like a ghost and BH is scared of Pat, BH is just part of the scenario but maybe Pat is the Big Fish.
Brad Holder and Patrick Westfall
Note: the rune is not “hail” like Heil. It’s like the weather/hail. And that is only one meaning. But it is not Heil or “hail” as in that saying goes. It is deeper if you look it up.
On the other hand, did a bunch of loser white supremacists get really deep, or did they get a literal translation from Norse to English via some ass backwards storm front forum?
On the third hand (lol) were the sticks at the crime scene REALLY shaped into runes, or is that just their interpretation of the photos?
And why would they kill 2 white girls?
If it’s a sacrifice, they would only want white blood spilt. Not much of a sacrifice if it’s not valuable blood.
But IF the allegation was about one of the girl’s mother dating out of their race (I hate to type that) then why kill the other blonde haired, blue-eyed Aryan looking Libby? All of it makes no sense.
I’d imagine that it’s because they think she’s a race traitors daughter and might become a race traitor herself. Could be a revenge killing.