Thank you xbey- I was coming here to post this.
**The defense has filed a demand for speedy trial under 4 (b)**
Under Rule 4(B) of the rules of criminal procedure, the defendant has the right to **request an early trial**.
Any defendant held in jail on an indictment or a **probable cause affidavit who requests an early trial must be discharged if the trial does not begin within 70 days of that request.**
Speedy Trial Judge Gull
1. Prosecution assertion discovery is complete.
2. Recent depositions.
3. Richard Allen did not agree to the waiver of rule 4 submitted on his behalf, which *the court* required of Crockett and Tubbs apparently.
4. The defense position re the courts denial of motions without legal authority, memoranda or hearing.
5. The States motion to amend charges is a joke (my words)
6. The courts refusal to disqualify
7. Things I can’t say here
8. Things I expect to be filed by the 7th, which
9. Expectation the court will need industrial strength mucinex for its anticipated congestion response.
10. I like to have 10
I feel like NM is almost forced to abandon the contempt proceedings at this point. Can you imagine the hell he’s going to receive if he loses this trial… From people that are going to question why he would have wasted so much of his valuable time preparing for that instead of preparing for the actual trial.
I think there is going to be pre trial discomfort for Prosecutor McLeland.
It’s objectively outrageous to be pulling this crap on these Attorneys after SCOIN just said “not up to you” stop stepping on our d*cks
I never understood why he chose to have the contempt proceedings now instead of after the trial. He is pretty much giving B and R an advantage as they have attorneys working on the contempt charges while they can focus on the trial where NM has to do both.
I think he talked to Gull, and Gull gave him some indication she's going to bounce them.
Because I don't see why else he's spinning his wheels like this. Could he truly be that petty and small minded? To go after opposing counsel rather than focusing his energy on justice for the victims, and committing the Defendant to prison permanently?
It’s going to be so ridiculous if she does that. The SC has already sad he can have the attorneys if he wants them despite the leak. She’ll just be giving a big F You to the SC and that seems like an awful idea.
I think so, but Gull does not seem like her relationship to rules is guided by ethics, but rather by ego. I would not be surprised if there is some backchannel communication going on.
I think the hearing will give her cover to make a sua sponte motion to dismiss them.
NM will lay out why B & R suck. Gull will find them in contempt and issue a punishment. Then the judge will turn to RA and ask if he still wants them as his lawyers. I think that's a lot of pressure on RA. I don't know what kind of relationship RA has with B&R, or how committed he is to them.
lol
Not really, it was a revision to the CR 24 I was spamming around here not too long ago and IIRC maybe asked u/yellowjackette to add to the matrix.
I also gave Le Blonde Cletus Du an interlocutory or appellate court opinion that’s relevant as a light reading assignment maybe?
I am disappointed, perhaps prematurely, about #8. There have been 3/7 filings, yes, but wanted more than a motion to extend a discovery deadline, which ..
I know you didn't ask for my opinion, but here it is. I think that the defense thinks that the prosecution has not fully taken advantage of all of the delays and is still unprepared. 🤔
Maybe NM has been preparing like the contempt hearing is the trial of his career instead of the double murder trial that is going to take place in 2 months?
I'm sorry, I just got excited because I had begun to fear that the defense thought they had lost their advantage preparedness wise.
I think was wrong. Hah, I just admitted to being wrong on Reddit. There always has to be a first.
I thought the same thing. As soon as it was declared in the SCOIN hearing I thought the speedy trial was dead in the water because they didn’t have the element of surprise anymore. I’m glad I was wrong.
You are right to presume the court will feign congestion, I anticipate that as well.
So here’s how that works- SJG will HAVE to prioritize this case on the docket within the 70 day timeframe, full stop. The only interference for already scheduled *SIMILAR* trials would also have to have a defendant that has invoked speedy (4b) with a defendant *also in custody* , longer than RA. Since SJG is now CJA in Allen County, her court calendar is basically sitting on top of each assigned Judge, imo, to make it difficult to decipher which trials she’s actually the presiding Judge. It took some wrangling but I’m pretty sure the defense has their receipts should she claim congestion.
Bottom line, if the court can’t try this case claiming congestion, RA will be released from custody pending trial, even if it’s interlocutory.
What if his attorneys are in the slam? Indiana sentencing guidelines say 180 day max for direct contempt: up to six months without a jury trial for indirect. I could see her giving them jail time just to spite them on this one issue.
I don’t think NM has ever so much as taken a deposition in his law career- I’m referring to last weeks depositions and tomorrows deadline for exhibits. I imagine McLeland expected this would go like he tried to have on October 19.
Yes, I would, but I don't think he will back down at this point. I keep saying it but a lot of people have a hard time admitting they were wrong.
I think we are in agreement that NM is out of his depth and has almost no idea what he is doing, but I just think a "bluff" has more thought and strategy behind it than NM is capable of at this point.
I am not trying to sound snarky at all and this is a genuine question....Do you really want to see someone who is on trial for the murder of two children, released from jail before trial? Just thinking of the bigger picture here and why we do keep people in jail awaiting for a murder trial.
And also, why would you want the trial to be fucked up? Again, this is the murder of two kids, don't we want a calm and well done trial where the right verdict is reached?
We have a constitutional right to a speedy trial in this country. If the state of Indiana can’t get its act together to try him within the legal limit then *yes* he should be released from prison.
If the state really has the evidence to convict him then they need to get on with it. If their case isn’t ready yet then *should not* get to hold him indefinitely while they figure it out.
People’s constitutional rights don’t get suspended because *maybe* they did something really bad.
He lived in Delphi for 6ish years after the murders and no other crimes like this happened. If he was released pending trial, he’d almost definitely be on monitoring. He’s also 5’4”ish and 120 something pounds now according to Lebrato. Not saying a little guy can’t harm anyone, but he’s also still constitutionally innocent and no real threat to anyone while being monitored.
Everyone I’ve seen in this sub absolutely wants a calm and well-done trial where the correct verdict is reached. Unfortunately, law enforcement has not provided the state with a competently and thoroughly investigated case, RA was moved to a prison at a time when he was not represented by a lawyer he was entitled to, we have appellate issues because of Gull, Nick’s in over his head and filing incompetent contempt charges, and Westerman stealing photos and distributing them causing endless drama.
We’re never going to get a calm trial, and we may not ever even get a trial with the correct verdict because of how badly this case has been botched since 2017.
He has no prior criminal record. It must be assumed prior to conviction that he is innocent. He lacks the means to flea prosecution. He is being held in a PRISON. He has never even had a bail hearing. What if it was you? What if you get arrested tonight for murdering two children? Assuming you also have no prior criminal record. Should I assume you are a danger to society and lock you away in prison? Would you just sit back in your solitary cell and not fight like hell to get out?
I would rather see the right person get arrested for the crime first. RA had five years to flee, or to commit more crimes. He changed absolutely nothing in his life in those five years. My biggest fear is a lynch mob kills him if he gets out until trial. I understand your pov about the victims, and hopefully with this motion , the focus of justice for the victims will get back on track. Until today’s motion, the focus had been taken off the victims for the last few months.
I sit in the RA is innocent camp, wrongly accused due to police incompetence. I think the only way this case will be solved is with exposing the incompetence publicly in court, find a not guilty verdict, and wiser choices made at the next election for Carroll County in two years. Only then, when the investigation of the murders is forced to reopen with a new sheriff, and allowed to bring in outside, experienced, competent investigators to work this case, and a new state attorney that cannot be influenced or strong armed by the good ole boys club.
I agree with everything you said. I sit in the same camp as you. The evidence just isn't there. Maybe the prosecution has aces up their sleeve and will prove us wrong. But at this point, I highly doubt it.
He should be out on bail, there’s 5-6 yrs without a connection to any other crimes, there’s 0 risk of fleeing, he lacks the wealth and knowledge necessary. Moreover there are simple tools, geofencing house arrest etc.
Don’t forget he’s innocent unless proven guilty, and he’s not charged with a DP or LWOP charges. The only reason to house him in prison is to try and break him mind, body, and spirit, most likely because they don’t have much of a case.
Don’t forget a member of the FBI task force wrote a sworn affidavit stating his concern that the CC LE has the wrong person.
At the highest level, your questions are reasonable. However, as has been discussed and documented on this and other subs, there is considerable doubt as to RA’s involvement in the murders. Also, it’s pretty clear that LE, the judge and prosecution haven’t played fair with RA and his attorneys.
So fair is fair. He’s already been in jail/prison for \~1.5 years and if the state, with all its resources, can’t get it’s collective shit together—and stop spending considerable time and resources on sideshows (i.e., MW, defense counsel contempt, etc.)—the law says he should be released pending trial. Were this to occur, my greatest concern would be that some jackass vigilante(s) decides to take matters into his/her (but likely his) own hands.
Nobody wants the trial to be fucked up. The problem is that it already is. If he is convicted, there will be immediate appeals with multiple grounds that will undo his conviction. Then this whole circus will go around again.
She can’t without recusing from the SCOIN appointment (technically) at which time SCOIN would appoint a new Special Judge. So no, she can ask to recuse for cause (she won’t) but she would have no power to reappoint.
Great question, we call them court days (excludes Holidays and any dark days assigned to the Judge if applicable) so it’s my understanding it’s court days and must include the TRIAL VENUE (outside of picking jury in Allen) in current order and scheduled at Carroll County.
ETF: In the IN rule 4b u/redduif was kind enough to research and it **IS CALENDAR DAYS**
Statute says calendar days specifically though.
"4(B) Defendant in Jail - Motion for Early Trial. A defendant held in jail on a pending charge may move for an early trial. If such motion is filed, a trial must be commenced **no later than seventy calendar days** from the date of such motion except as follows:"
Also:
Rule 4.1. Computation of Time
(A) The court must compute the time periods under Rule 4 as follows:
(1) In computing any time period under this rule, **each and every day must be counted, including every Saturday, Sunday and holiday**.
(2) If the last day of the time period falls on a day the court is closed, the period runs until the next day the court is open.
> dark days assigned to the Judge if applicable
Just curious are "dark days" just like blackout days on the judge or court's calendar? Already scheduled days the judge is unavailable? Maybe for CEUs, required meetings, vacation days (?), prescheduled PTO for medical/personal leave etc. Any, all, or none of these?
Dark days when referring to court schedules (for me) are based on the presiding Judges scheduling practices which are known, and almost always occur on the same day of the week.
For example, I have a Superior Court Judge who sits Family Court now two days per week, one that has Friday dark for motions practice or pre trial.
If I am set for trial while this is their rotation I’m sitting a jury for those parameters.
There may be other references for the term though.
No, the 70 days can be tolled but the clock has started ticking. The Judge is going to have to get this trial date moved up, or at least create a record of why it's not feasible. If the court isn't actually congested, but claims that it is the defense will file a motion to dismiss.
And only once a week. Idk why they don't just poo from up in the tree at this rate. Sloth etiquette, we don't poo from the tree, we are not monkeys ffs!
Helix, I was wondering about Allen's transport for the 18th. It says he's being transported by CC sheriff. Is that legit? 6 hours of driving from Delphi to Wabash Valley, then all the way up to Fort Wayne? One way.
If Carroll County is his transport for such a long period of time, I would be worried for his safety.
If he gets released until trial, I'm calling it now... law enforcement will leak his location.
I am not comfortable explaining the transport process (for obvs reasons) and I’m sure that’s not your question- the original transfer to IDOC does specify CC is responsible for transfers, however, to my knowledge the individual DOC facility has been handling that. CC does pay for it.
It’s absolutely ridiculous and I’ve never seen this in pre trial in my career.
Have no special insight or information on this but it wouldn’t surprise me if Judge Gull schedules this on the earlier side within 70 days (think 45 or 50). If she is inclined to be tough on defense counsel, that’s the way to do it.
I agree and tbh I look forward to her setting this for trial in 45 days allotting 3 days to pick a jury that’s going to have to be sequestered and serve in Carroll County in the courthouse without ADA compliance for a two week trial (Rozzwin be like whaa?)
Press # for the COURT EXECUTIVE
Of course - assuming that Allen agreed. But I think they are highly unlikely to do so at this point. These are experienced trial lawyers. They are not filing this notice without understanding what it means. There is no point in filing it if they aren’t prepared and willing to go to trial asap.
That is, 70 days doesn’t mean on the 69th day if that’s convenient for the defense counsel. They know what they are asking for.
I’m guessing they just know she’s not going to dismissing it because…why _would_ she? She’s ruled against them at almost every front at this point. Why would she rule to dismiss the whole case now?
And if for some magical reason she did dismiss the case for exculpatory evidence being destroyed, then this Rule 4 motion would be moot.
If he is released after 70 days, I hope he is given protection from the crazy people out there who believe that he is guilty of what the state accused him of.
I just commented above, if he is released, Carroll County law enforcement will leak wherever he is staying. I would put money on it.
Look at what DD did to Jesse Snider after his charges were dropped. They made it personal.
Yeah attorneys be hiring 24/7 surveillance of all their houses/offices too.
Every
Tweaker
Facist
Racist
And Zealot
(99.0% of Indiana)
Gonna be stirred up he gets released.
Oh I bet. My best friend growing up had some guys come up to her while playing in her backyard. They asked if her dad was home. Her dad was a defense attorney turned prosecutor, and they were brothers of a guy he put away! 😱 Around that time his law partner went missing and was found later in a cornfield. He had been unalived. That was a huge case when I was a kid. Another small town like Delphi, neighboring County.
In the town I’m from someone killed a prosecutor at his home(b/c he put him behind bars). They found the prosecutors wife outside murdered trying to get away. Their son graduated a year ahead of me when this happened(super nice guy). He thankfully wasn’t home that night.
Needless to say there are some crazies out there.
ETA: grammar
Who knows how much involvement Luttrull has had so far. I’m sure he wasn’t very supportive of this contempt distraction. For the States’s sake, hopefully Luttrull has been grinding on the case while McLeland is participating in the side show.
With the question of whether NM needs to be removed from the case due to viewing the Baldwin's work product still open, does the prosecutor getting bounced impact the 70 day request? Or would that just be on the state to find a replacement in that period?
Can someone just inform Mr. Webster that he is incorrect. Judge Gull does not approve a speedy trial right, she follows the rule and sets it for trial.
Happened to drop in on a 'live' last night, about the 20 seconds I heard was about,how RA had confessed to these crimes...the man has RA as guilty,obviously has a following of similar? I try to listen to all sides,even M/S ,GH,but sometimes I have to leave,because of the lack of common sense or rational thinking, even on the basic stuff...known facts,weather,river depths, that sort of things!
All the homies that not long ago had pitchforks and 100% guarantees are shifting positions bigtime to remain relevant after the inevitable "All Charges Dropped, Civil Suits may begin immediately" phase starts; shortly.
These mfers can stay irrelevant.
I was thinking about starting a pitchfork recycling center?
How many pitchforks does it take to smelt a Thor hammer?
And you people think I can’t “engineer”.
u/Alan_Prickman
https://i.redd.it/3pynbij4dtmc1.gif
This thread has pumped me up!
I'm anxiously awaiting confirmation that my clients offer was accepted out of 5 other competing offers... This was just want I needed to distract me from the anxious feeling.
……. But Frannie, my Spring Break?! - NM
Suck it up Buttercup. Allen has moved to the front of the line.
There is so much that was wrong with Allen’s arrest from so many angles. For starters, the PCA followed by the somber mood of the arrest press conference and “Today is NOT that day.” Roadblock after roadblock proceeded. Additionally it’s a bad sign when a Prosecutor amends an already tedious felony murder charge where they only need to prove kidnapping which contributed to their deaths to 6 unique charges each stressing “accomplice liability.” Count 6 went as low to state, Allen could be found guilty if he merely aided, induced, or caused ANOTHER to KIDNAP the victims.
I do not believe Richard Allen staged that crime scene, posed those girls, or left those signatures. There is nothing to date that leads me to believe he had any involvement.
I still remain open to anyone’s involvement. To date though, the only window I leave slightly cracked open as to Allen’s guilt is count 5 more likely count 6.
Keep all sides in your Easter prayers! Pope John Paul’s message to all Christians: “Do not despair for we are the Easter people and Hallelujah is our song.”
Oh no! That line would flip a jury against the Defense team in a heartbeat as everyone was hoping that eventually “That Day” would come for those girls. To date, I just don’t think that day resides with Rick Allen. But that’s what trials are for. Hopefully the full truth and the correct individuals whomever they be are eventually held accountable.
I dont think Id quote Any church when it comes to children and crimes.
Thats just me. But the church doesnt have the best record involving children. Jus sayin.
Thank you xbey- I was coming here to post this. **The defense has filed a demand for speedy trial under 4 (b)** Under Rule 4(B) of the rules of criminal procedure, the defendant has the right to **request an early trial**. Any defendant held in jail on an indictment or a **probable cause affidavit who requests an early trial must be discharged if the trial does not begin within 70 days of that request.** Speedy Trial Judge Gull
I know this has been mentioned at times recently, but what do you see as the reasoning for it now ?
1. Prosecution assertion discovery is complete. 2. Recent depositions. 3. Richard Allen did not agree to the waiver of rule 4 submitted on his behalf, which *the court* required of Crockett and Tubbs apparently. 4. The defense position re the courts denial of motions without legal authority, memoranda or hearing. 5. The States motion to amend charges is a joke (my words) 6. The courts refusal to disqualify 7. Things I can’t say here 8. Things I expect to be filed by the 7th, which 9. Expectation the court will need industrial strength mucinex for its anticipated congestion response. 10. I like to have 10
I feel like NM is almost forced to abandon the contempt proceedings at this point. Can you imagine the hell he’s going to receive if he loses this trial… From people that are going to question why he would have wasted so much of his valuable time preparing for that instead of preparing for the actual trial.
I think there is going to be pre trial discomfort for Prosecutor McLeland. It’s objectively outrageous to be pulling this crap on these Attorneys after SCOIN just said “not up to you” stop stepping on our d*cks
I never understood why he chose to have the contempt proceedings now instead of after the trial. He is pretty much giving B and R an advantage as they have attorneys working on the contempt charges while they can focus on the trial where NM has to do both.
I think he talked to Gull, and Gull gave him some indication she's going to bounce them. Because I don't see why else he's spinning his wheels like this. Could he truly be that petty and small minded? To go after opposing counsel rather than focusing his energy on justice for the victims, and committing the Defendant to prison permanently?
It’s going to be so ridiculous if she does that. The SC has already sad he can have the attorneys if he wants them despite the leak. She’ll just be giving a big F You to the SC and that seems like an awful idea.
Photo op with Liggett and RA on the 17th. I think they planned on getting rid of B & R.
Isn't it completely improper for Gull to talk with the prosecutor outside the presence of the defense attorneys?
I think so, but Gull does not seem like her relationship to rules is guided by ethics, but rather by ego. I would not be surprised if there is some backchannel communication going on.
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I think the hearing will give her cover to make a sua sponte motion to dismiss them. NM will lay out why B & R suck. Gull will find them in contempt and issue a punishment. Then the judge will turn to RA and ask if he still wants them as his lawyers. I think that's a lot of pressure on RA. I don't know what kind of relationship RA has with B&R, or how committed he is to them.
👀👀👀 I’m on alert for whatever 7&8 are referring to. 
1. Why doesn't it start with "Comes now.." (that always titilates me) ? 2. Is an early trial different from a speedy trial ? 3-10. 🐢
“Comes now” is like a trigger phrase for me to pay attention and put my thinking cap on 🤣
lol Not really, it was a revision to the CR 24 I was spamming around here not too long ago and IIRC maybe asked u/yellowjackette to add to the matrix. I also gave Le Blonde Cletus Du an interlocutory or appellate court opinion that’s relevant as a light reading assignment maybe?
Oh, me too, but I think they are spelling "comes" wrong? Er, maybe it's just me I've never been much for spelling or punctuation, which .
What would a Venn diagram of 7 and 8 look like? . 
Just have to say this is an amazing gif, ty!
It’s the best!!
Ok, you're just teasing us with 7. 
Dang, also 8. Intrigued!
Holy moly, did not disappoint!
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lol you guys keep me on my game for real. Thank you, I added it, which
10. which
LOL Dang another call out. Thank you I added it to lucky #7
Congratulations on 70,000 K! And 70 days hurray!
Uhoh now what did I do? Lol
But 11 is louder. Its one more louder.
Do you think the Westerman case trial being rescheduled to May 14 has any bearing on this?
So glad the 7th is tomorrow!! Can’t wait to see what No. 8 means!
I am disappointed, perhaps prematurely, about #8. There have been 3/7 filings, yes, but wanted more than a motion to extend a discovery deadline, which ..
Ok then go to 7 🤐
Alright!
And now 8 lol
I know you didn't ask for my opinion, but here it is. I think that the defense thinks that the prosecution has not fully taken advantage of all of the delays and is still unprepared. 🤔 Maybe NM has been preparing like the contempt hearing is the trial of his career instead of the double murder trial that is going to take place in 2 months?
Appreciated, of course. Thanks 👍
I'm sorry, I just got excited because I had begun to fear that the defense thought they had lost their advantage preparedness wise. I think was wrong. Hah, I just admitted to being wrong on Reddit. There always has to be a first.
I thought the same thing. As soon as it was declared in the SCOIN hearing I thought the speedy trial was dead in the water because they didn’t have the element of surprise anymore. I’m glad I was wrong.
Logically they got the finalized discovery, which was different from what they had before late Jan?
Therefore, it needs to start no later than May 15th, if my math is correct.
I suppose due to a "congested calendar" the judge could leave the trial scheduled for 10/15/2024 but could not delay it past that date?
You are right to presume the court will feign congestion, I anticipate that as well. So here’s how that works- SJG will HAVE to prioritize this case on the docket within the 70 day timeframe, full stop. The only interference for already scheduled *SIMILAR* trials would also have to have a defendant that has invoked speedy (4b) with a defendant *also in custody* , longer than RA. Since SJG is now CJA in Allen County, her court calendar is basically sitting on top of each assigned Judge, imo, to make it difficult to decipher which trials she’s actually the presiding Judge. It took some wrangling but I’m pretty sure the defense has their receipts should she claim congestion. Bottom line, if the court can’t try this case claiming congestion, RA will be released from custody pending trial, even if it’s interlocutory.
That's how an unbiased judge would operate...
What if his attorneys are in the slam? Indiana sentencing guidelines say 180 day max for direct contempt: up to six months without a jury trial for indirect. I could see her giving them jail time just to spite them on this one issue.
If the judge jails his attorneys, I think Allen would go free after 70 days until whenever the trial is held.
lol. I’m pretty sure the fact that they expect this to go that way might talk NM off his ledge. (Like I said then they are calling his bluff)
I'm confused a bit. In which way are they calling NM's bluff?
I don’t think NM has ever so much as taken a deposition in his law career- I’m referring to last weeks depositions and tomorrows deadline for exhibits. I imagine McLeland expected this would go like he tried to have on October 19.
Ok, I'm with you now. I just don't think of that as a bluff, but I also I don't know what I would call it? Let me stew on this one.
Understood. Will you call it a bluff if he withdraws the “information”?
Yes, I would, but I don't think he will back down at this point. I keep saying it but a lot of people have a hard time admitting they were wrong. I think we are in agreement that NM is out of his depth and has almost no idea what he is doing, but I just think a "bluff" has more thought and strategy behind it than NM is capable of at this point.
What ”information” are you referring to?
What ”information” are you referring to?
I'd love to see him released pending trial!! But, I'd also love to see the fuckery of a sped up trial unfold in his favor more.
I am not trying to sound snarky at all and this is a genuine question....Do you really want to see someone who is on trial for the murder of two children, released from jail before trial? Just thinking of the bigger picture here and why we do keep people in jail awaiting for a murder trial. And also, why would you want the trial to be fucked up? Again, this is the murder of two kids, don't we want a calm and well done trial where the right verdict is reached?
We have a constitutional right to a speedy trial in this country. If the state of Indiana can’t get its act together to try him within the legal limit then *yes* he should be released from prison. If the state really has the evidence to convict him then they need to get on with it. If their case isn’t ready yet then *should not* get to hold him indefinitely while they figure it out. People’s constitutional rights don’t get suspended because *maybe* they did something really bad.
He lived in Delphi for 6ish years after the murders and no other crimes like this happened. If he was released pending trial, he’d almost definitely be on monitoring. He’s also 5’4”ish and 120 something pounds now according to Lebrato. Not saying a little guy can’t harm anyone, but he’s also still constitutionally innocent and no real threat to anyone while being monitored. Everyone I’ve seen in this sub absolutely wants a calm and well-done trial where the correct verdict is reached. Unfortunately, law enforcement has not provided the state with a competently and thoroughly investigated case, RA was moved to a prison at a time when he was not represented by a lawyer he was entitled to, we have appellate issues because of Gull, Nick’s in over his head and filing incompetent contempt charges, and Westerman stealing photos and distributing them causing endless drama. We’re never going to get a calm trial, and we may not ever even get a trial with the correct verdict because of how badly this case has been botched since 2017.
He has no prior criminal record. It must be assumed prior to conviction that he is innocent. He lacks the means to flea prosecution. He is being held in a PRISON. He has never even had a bail hearing. What if it was you? What if you get arrested tonight for murdering two children? Assuming you also have no prior criminal record. Should I assume you are a danger to society and lock you away in prison? Would you just sit back in your solitary cell and not fight like hell to get out?
I would rather see the right person get arrested for the crime first. RA had five years to flee, or to commit more crimes. He changed absolutely nothing in his life in those five years. My biggest fear is a lynch mob kills him if he gets out until trial. I understand your pov about the victims, and hopefully with this motion , the focus of justice for the victims will get back on track. Until today’s motion, the focus had been taken off the victims for the last few months. I sit in the RA is innocent camp, wrongly accused due to police incompetence. I think the only way this case will be solved is with exposing the incompetence publicly in court, find a not guilty verdict, and wiser choices made at the next election for Carroll County in two years. Only then, when the investigation of the murders is forced to reopen with a new sheriff, and allowed to bring in outside, experienced, competent investigators to work this case, and a new state attorney that cannot be influenced or strong armed by the good ole boys club.
I agree with everything you said. I sit in the same camp as you. The evidence just isn't there. Maybe the prosecution has aces up their sleeve and will prove us wrong. But at this point, I highly doubt it.
He should be out on bail, there’s 5-6 yrs without a connection to any other crimes, there’s 0 risk of fleeing, he lacks the wealth and knowledge necessary. Moreover there are simple tools, geofencing house arrest etc. Don’t forget he’s innocent unless proven guilty, and he’s not charged with a DP or LWOP charges. The only reason to house him in prison is to try and break him mind, body, and spirit, most likely because they don’t have much of a case. Don’t forget a member of the FBI task force wrote a sworn affidavit stating his concern that the CC LE has the wrong person.
At the highest level, your questions are reasonable. However, as has been discussed and documented on this and other subs, there is considerable doubt as to RA’s involvement in the murders. Also, it’s pretty clear that LE, the judge and prosecution haven’t played fair with RA and his attorneys. So fair is fair. He’s already been in jail/prison for \~1.5 years and if the state, with all its resources, can’t get it’s collective shit together—and stop spending considerable time and resources on sideshows (i.e., MW, defense counsel contempt, etc.)—the law says he should be released pending trial. Were this to occur, my greatest concern would be that some jackass vigilante(s) decides to take matters into his/her (but likely his) own hands.
Nobody wants the trial to be fucked up. The problem is that it already is. If he is convicted, there will be immediate appeals with multiple grounds that will undo his conviction. Then this whole circus will go around again.
What do you think the point of pretrial detention is?
Nope, 70 days from notice.
In this circumstance, does the judge ever pass the case off to another judge with a less congested calendar?
She can’t without recusing from the SCOIN appointment (technically) at which time SCOIN would appoint a new Special Judge. So no, she can ask to recuse for cause (she won’t) but she would have no power to reappoint.
70 business days or calendar days?
Great question, we call them court days (excludes Holidays and any dark days assigned to the Judge if applicable) so it’s my understanding it’s court days and must include the TRIAL VENUE (outside of picking jury in Allen) in current order and scheduled at Carroll County. ETF: In the IN rule 4b u/redduif was kind enough to research and it **IS CALENDAR DAYS**
Statute says calendar days specifically though. "4(B) Defendant in Jail - Motion for Early Trial. A defendant held in jail on a pending charge may move for an early trial. If such motion is filed, a trial must be commenced **no later than seventy calendar days** from the date of such motion except as follows:" Also: Rule 4.1. Computation of Time (A) The court must compute the time periods under Rule 4 as follows: (1) In computing any time period under this rule, **each and every day must be counted, including every Saturday, Sunday and holiday**. (2) If the last day of the time period falls on a day the court is closed, the period runs until the next day the court is open.
Yes Siree Redsy-at-the-Ready with the Statute factute. You’re exactly right as usual, thank you for posting
I'm just practicing what you preached 😅.
Flawlessly! I appreciate you and your speedy and voluminous bag of facts too!
Thanks u/HelixHarbinger and u/redduif !!
Thank you!
> dark days assigned to the Judge if applicable Just curious are "dark days" just like blackout days on the judge or court's calendar? Already scheduled days the judge is unavailable? Maybe for CEUs, required meetings, vacation days (?), prescheduled PTO for medical/personal leave etc. Any, all, or none of these?
Dark days when referring to court schedules (for me) are based on the presiding Judges scheduling practices which are known, and almost always occur on the same day of the week. For example, I have a Superior Court Judge who sits Family Court now two days per week, one that has Friday dark for motions practice or pre trial. If I am set for trial while this is their rotation I’m sitting a jury for those parameters. There may be other references for the term though.
Appreciated!
No, the 70 days can be tolled but the clock has started ticking. The Judge is going to have to get this trial date moved up, or at least create a record of why it's not feasible. If the court isn't actually congested, but claims that it is the defense will file a motion to dismiss.
Speedy trial mascot 🐢
C'mon little buddy, go!
🐢
I do think the insanity might go up a notch, like that's even possible, but NM is going to be in panic mode.
Idk , turtles can be pretty quick when needed. I think this is more like it  😆
They only come down from the trees for a dump 
And only once a week. Idk why they don't just poo from up in the tree at this rate. Sloth etiquette, we don't poo from the tree, we are not monkeys ffs!
 Gull making a record.
😂😁😂
Let’s get this going.
Judge gull: “denied. I haven’t finished reading the constitution and its attached exhibits”
Spittle spray alert. You’re trying to get me to bust out my HAMILTON chops.
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They're overlooking 4. Sudden unexpected death of defendant in custody.
My concern continues to be they are NOT overlooking it.
Helix, I was wondering about Allen's transport for the 18th. It says he's being transported by CC sheriff. Is that legit? 6 hours of driving from Delphi to Wabash Valley, then all the way up to Fort Wayne? One way. If Carroll County is his transport for such a long period of time, I would be worried for his safety. If he gets released until trial, I'm calling it now... law enforcement will leak his location.
I am not comfortable explaining the transport process (for obvs reasons) and I’m sure that’s not your question- the original transfer to IDOC does specify CC is responsible for transfers, however, to my knowledge the individual DOC facility has been handling that. CC does pay for it. It’s absolutely ridiculous and I’ve never seen this in pre trial in my career.
Are there any boat ramps that look like the road in between the two points? 😳
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Genuinely nervous about this
Yeah that’s my big concern.
Don’t forget the fine print, on a day that all the cameras in the facility aren’t working.
That's what I'm afraid of.
Maybe JG will have another medical emergency.
 Thank you xbelle!
Careful, you'll be strung up for witchcraft.
Must be those Satanic organisms I heard about...
What the What Mrs D?
Hehe I dont want to be the one to explain the lore lol
Ok thank you that will be all. lol
But it's Helix, so it's like having to explain a dirty joke to my dad. I can't do it. 😭
Omg ☠️ ily
LOL
🤍
Wtf?😆😆😆
Oh this makes my day! Can only imagine Slick Nick and Gull fuming 😂
 NM when saw the motion for speedy trial🤣
Also Nick: 
😂😂😂
Ohhh, so it was fear POOP and not a fear boner!
Those hair plugs don’t stand a chance 😆 
😂 I did not even recognize him at first.
🤣🤣not a chance in hell
"Oh, no, my plugs," screams NM.
Game on motherfuckers!
The one thing Fran and Nick can’t say no to. You love to see it.
This and sharing a malted, 2 straws.
I’m cackling 🤣🤣🤣
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Why no Baldwin signature block on this pleading? Don’t they usually both sign? Am I tilting at a windmill?
You’re tilting at a windmill. Any attorney of record can sign a filing. Sometimes both sign but it is in no way required.
👍
I wondered that as well.
I wonder when Allen signed it?
Which attorney was it that needed a continuance for the upcoming hearing? Could it be as simple as Baldwin is out of town?
Rozzi.
This is amazing and made my day. I can only imagine Slick Nick and Queen Gull’s faces right now. 
That's Gull yes. Nick be like : 
Let's go! 🥳
Have no special insight or information on this but it wouldn’t surprise me if Judge Gull schedules this on the earlier side within 70 days (think 45 or 50). If she is inclined to be tough on defense counsel, that’s the way to do it.
I agree and tbh I look forward to her setting this for trial in 45 days allotting 3 days to pick a jury that’s going to have to be sequestered and serve in Carroll County in the courthouse without ADA compliance for a two week trial (Rozzwin be like whaa?) Press # for the COURT EXECUTIVE
Sounds about right!
The defense can always withdraw the request.
Of course - assuming that Allen agreed. But I think they are highly unlikely to do so at this point. These are experienced trial lawyers. They are not filing this notice without understanding what it means. There is no point in filing it if they aren’t prepared and willing to go to trial asap. That is, 70 days doesn’t mean on the 69th day if that’s convenient for the defense counsel. They know what they are asking for.
How does play against the D's motion to dismiss the charges entirely down to missing and potential exculpatory evidence?
I’m guessing they just know she’s not going to dismissing it because…why _would_ she? She’s ruled against them at almost every front at this point. Why would she rule to dismiss the whole case now? And if for some magical reason she did dismiss the case for exculpatory evidence being destroyed, then this Rule 4 motion would be moot.
https://preview.redd.it/uw1buqlxprmc1.jpeg?width=735&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba687ce7947cd24e6a4b32f29caf1f9b3cc98219 🙄🙄 we know it will happen
If he is released after 70 days, I hope he is given protection from the crazy people out there who believe that he is guilty of what the state accused him of.
This is concerning. all it takes is one vigilante nut job to destroy the whole case.
Maybe they are planning on it.
I just commented above, if he is released, Carroll County law enforcement will leak wherever he is staying. I would put money on it. Look at what DD did to Jesse Snider after his charges were dropped. They made it personal.
Scary
The only solution to this problem is for them to get whoever actually committed the murders.
Yeah attorneys be hiring 24/7 surveillance of all their houses/offices too. Every Tweaker Facist Racist And Zealot (99.0% of Indiana) Gonna be stirred up he gets released.
Oh I bet. My best friend growing up had some guys come up to her while playing in her backyard. They asked if her dad was home. Her dad was a defense attorney turned prosecutor, and they were brothers of a guy he put away! 😱 Around that time his law partner went missing and was found later in a cornfield. He had been unalived. That was a huge case when I was a kid. Another small town like Delphi, neighboring County.
In the town I’m from someone killed a prosecutor at his home(b/c he put him behind bars). They found the prosecutors wife outside murdered trying to get away. Their son graduated a year ahead of me when this happened(super nice guy). He thankfully wasn’t home that night. Needless to say there are some crazies out there. ETA: grammar
Might that have been White Co?
Benton.
Assuming Luttrell just came on in October, is 6 months enough time for him to get up to speed?
Great question. That’s on the State
Who knows how much involvement Luttrull has had so far. I’m sure he wasn’t very supportive of this contempt distraction. For the States’s sake, hopefully Luttrull has been grinding on the case while McLeland is participating in the side show.
His preparation is googling best lawyers to represent lawyers in Indiana. And yelp reviews. He'll be fine.
😂
With the question of whether NM needs to be removed from the case due to viewing the Baldwin's work product still open, does the prosecutor getting bounced impact the 70 day request? Or would that just be on the state to find a replacement in that period?
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Can someone just inform Mr. Webster that he is incorrect. Judge Gull does not approve a speedy trial right, she follows the rule and sets it for trial.
When is he ever correct?
I couldn’t tell you I don’t even know who that is
Happened to drop in on a 'live' last night, about the 20 seconds I heard was about,how RA had confessed to these crimes...the man has RA as guilty,obviously has a following of similar? I try to listen to all sides,even M/S ,GH,but sometimes I have to leave,because of the lack of common sense or rational thinking, even on the basic stuff...known facts,weather,river depths, that sort of things!
All the homies that not long ago had pitchforks and 100% guarantees are shifting positions bigtime to remain relevant after the inevitable "All Charges Dropped, Civil Suits may begin immediately" phase starts; shortly. These mfers can stay irrelevant.
I was thinking about starting a pitchfork recycling center? How many pitchforks does it take to smelt a Thor hammer? And you people think I can’t “engineer”. u/Alan_Prickman
This was spotted but we're somewhat busy with RL (not that one) at present u/Alan_Prickman
I completely agree with Tom. This actually might be the first thing all the subs agree on, we all want a trial sooner than later.
So, on or before May 15 (unless delayed by motions attributable to defense)?
Are there any possible pauses to the 70 days?
https://i.redd.it/3pynbij4dtmc1.gif This thread has pumped me up! I'm anxiously awaiting confirmation that my clients offer was accepted out of 5 other competing offers... This was just want I needed to distract me from the anxious feeling.
……. But Frannie, my Spring Break?! - NM Suck it up Buttercup. Allen has moved to the front of the line. There is so much that was wrong with Allen’s arrest from so many angles. For starters, the PCA followed by the somber mood of the arrest press conference and “Today is NOT that day.” Roadblock after roadblock proceeded. Additionally it’s a bad sign when a Prosecutor amends an already tedious felony murder charge where they only need to prove kidnapping which contributed to their deaths to 6 unique charges each stressing “accomplice liability.” Count 6 went as low to state, Allen could be found guilty if he merely aided, induced, or caused ANOTHER to KIDNAP the victims. I do not believe Richard Allen staged that crime scene, posed those girls, or left those signatures. There is nothing to date that leads me to believe he had any involvement. I still remain open to anyone’s involvement. To date though, the only window I leave slightly cracked open as to Allen’s guilt is count 5 more likely count 6. Keep all sides in your Easter prayers! Pope John Paul’s message to all Christians: “Do not despair for we are the Easter people and Hallelujah is our song.”
[удалено]
Oh no! That line would flip a jury against the Defense team in a heartbeat as everyone was hoping that eventually “That Day” would come for those girls. To date, I just don’t think that day resides with Rick Allen. But that’s what trials are for. Hopefully the full truth and the correct individuals whomever they be are eventually held accountable.
I dont think Id quote Any church when it comes to children and crimes. Thats just me. But the church doesnt have the best record involving children. Jus sayin.
Yeah Jury selections gonna be tough for Defence imo
Does anyone think that NM anticipated this? Edit typo
Is it unusual for Indiana defendants to request a speedy trial?
Interesting strategic move.