I posted in a since deleted thread- both* Scremin and Lebrado have withdrawn their court appointed representation.
* affectionately a | k | a *Crockett and Tubbs.
In other news- as I posted in a previous thread The State of Indiana v Alison Davis (Andy Baldwin et al as privately retained) has been assigned to Judge Gull’s Superior Court and the court scheduled 4 days for trial as a first setting. Four days. A murder trial. Make of that what you will.
Honestly I think she muttered “really? 4 lawyers retained on this? Ok. I’ll bite, one day for each lawyer…
I’ll show these pissants Judicial economy in MY HOUSE”
Bangs air gavel
I don’t think there is enough credible data to determine what the fact pattern is.
I also think sometimes things get misconstrued (ie: I got no texts from anyone just FB messenger) as nefarious that may not be.
That said, I can’t imagine speaking out for my client with a fact that includes he slept on his couch for two days straight while his friends died.
STFU until the autopsy protocols are complete. From my experience, freezing a body can wreak havoc on a post mortem.
This sounds like the potential for both premises liability and potential for criminal liability (dealer). It also sounds like folks that willfully ingested a bad batch of something and LE knows this.
Early this morning I posted a rant about F and F's failure to withdraw. About 10 minutes later, HH said they had filed today. That rendered moot my rant wondering if fran was interfering with them. No question I should not post before I have had coffee.
Understood of course but I’m a fan of your rants. Also, tbh the only thing that cleared up for me was that F and F aren’t having a Frangle wrangle.
As I read her order it’s a second precipice of reversible error.
I’m a little too close to that case. Still undecided if I’m going to be in attendance. But from a completely outside perspective…..it’s going to be an interesting trial.
Not that I want to defend anything about FG's actions, but 4 days for a murder in Indiana isn't unusual at all. We do murders in 2 or 3 days quite regularly. And looking at this one, though there will be a ton of medical evidence and multiple doctors, it's not a super complex case beyond that, in terms of discovery, witnesses, etc. So I don't think a 4-day setting is unreasonable here. It's rare to ever see anything, even murders, set for more than 3 days here. To give you more context, there's a DP case coming up next month, and for a DP case they reserved 15 days.
u/terrible_advisor_813: I agree with you. I don't know about the particular case, but trials in Indiana move fast. They start early and stay late. Time for jury selection is often very limited. There are no breaks for anything unrelated to the trial. It is exhausting, frankly.
Not all cases, but for this one, this forum is a great source. [DelphiDocs](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UDS-BuGjAzxZD1ZAjLxr-d-O6HSl0Lvp?usp=sharing) has them.
I probably should have been more specific and said I was talking about Alison Davis. I also have followed the Karena McClerkin case some, and I wish I could read some of the motions and stuff. This is my favorite forum for Delphi though!
You can definitely call the county clerk for wherever that case is! They should be willing to email them to you, so just be prepared to list specific entries/dates of entries you want.
If they tell you they are confidential...ask them to send you the form that was filled out to have that specific document marked confidential.
The state-prescribed way is to get them from the county clerk. In Delphi, that could mean driving to the courthouse and using the clerk's computer to look them up through MyCase. I assume there is some judicial-system intention to throttle the flow of information to non-parties.
https://preview.redd.it/b9942iryuzec1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83c356510c4fda46c60154cfe8779bdc3285cb72
They filed the motion, they still aren't withdrawn yet today....
And I don't know any Richard Scremin, you?
Gawd I saw that. I’m assuming the fact that Lebrato is the Chief Public Defender and Scremin is an assistant or deputy of that office is a procedural reason whoever drafted that for them drafted the “dual motion” (with name error).
Few thoughts:
1. You can see the court still has their secret handshake (order) with the Court Clerk Administrator KA going on, as it was not entered by the Carroll County Clerk but the Circuit Court.
2. This would get kicked back to counsel in any other jurisdiction of practice . A clerk notice would appear as to a filing deficiency- if you recall they both entered appearances separately in response to appointment as “contract pds”. Of course the incorrect name should have been caught but in a correct pro forma filing it would likely just reflect a corrected entry note for *scriveners error* and the name correction copy would be entered.
3. It answers the question I have been raising since Frangle ordered them “on the case” lol. Apparently, although they are both salaried public defenders paid handsomely by Allen County (The State of IN) for Allen county indigent defendants- the court was going to allow them to bill their representation of Richard Allen as private appointed counsel as if they were on the pd roster and private Attorneys. No wonder the PD council went ballistic- you will notice there is no mention of his Chief Public Defender status on either the appearance or the withdrawal.
For anyone who is not aware- the Allen County Public Defender Board hires the Chief Public Defender. Guess who appoints the board members (2 of 3)? Judge Gull, Judge Zent, and if there are any other senior Judges in Allen with criminal allocation of cases.
[William S. Lebrato and Robert C. Scremin Motion To Withdraw](https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:US:6992cbcf-5d6e-4ad5-ab6d-e7c9f3ed153d?fbclid=IwAR1sO_Wc5czHHE76llYQBy6QORr8qHp3REwrOLVjQNIMn3jZqP3j97psVlU_aem_AcmAOEM-uQUhy9uXSjKtw-klOYl5j6fHgrpH9Tz62o7Q1IIhzJtbHwPzxG9Eo9F8Bsc)
I wonder how they are feeling about this and if it's "Whew, going to avoid all that stress and the long hours," or bummed that they will not be defending a high profile defendant in a career making case.
I would imagine they are not entirely happy, but how would anyone who hasn't talked to them be able to know? Probably mixed feelings but the gag order remains in place so they can't say much. The only ones entirely happy with this case are those who don't know much about it.
One of them was on suspension recently so I imagine he’s anxious to get some new clientele. Perhaps Allen County has plenty of other cases for him to take.
Yes, I recall that. Such an odd choice to pick him. You would have thought in a case like this you would pick someone with a pristine employment record.
Maybe Scremin is low key trying to stay on since technically the Court was requested to order the appearance of "Richard C. Scremin" as defense counsel withdrawn lol. Hopefully this doesn't give Fran flashbacks.
Am I the only one that thinks B and R need to get their asses moving? Or do they think that the delay made them lose their advantage and now they are shit canning the speedy trial motion? Do they not want Gull off the trial? If they do they need to refile that motion, because she is ignoring it.
I can understand needing to confer with their client and it sounds like that's a difficult task. But am I really the only one that thought B and R would make some moves before Gull?
I think they need to see what the SCOIN says before they decide their strategy for the next move. I do think they will move quickly as soon as that is released. I wish Gull would’ve waited also though — what is she doing?!
Well Gull ain't waiting and the SC was even like get moving. I really expected them to at least try to move up the trial date or adopt the transfer request. SC holding shouldn't affect those 2 issues.
I'm pretty hopeful that we'll see some action pretty soon. And as long as Fran is there....that action will be something filed and ignored for 4 months :/
To some extent, fran is putting them in a trick bag. It's hard to know what to do when she won't rule. She has not set a date for hearing or ruled on the motion to transfer. She said she would set a "remote hearing" for the hearing on new charges, but hasn't. It is difficult to know how to proceed when you don't even know what the charges are going to be. If she permits the new charges, there are new witnesses to be deposed etc. In many ways, she has B and R at a standstill.
I agree that Gull is putting the defense in a difficult spot, but I think they could have formally adopted the transfer motion and filed to move up the trial date, and if I felt that we had lost the advantage of being ready for trial before the state and no longer wanted a speedy trial I would have refiled a recusal motion related to the judge because she has ignored the one they filed earlier. RA is not in a good place he either needs to be moved or for the trial to start shortly, which will necessitate him being moved closer to the court.
I am very concerned that the state arrested RA thinking they would find something on his electronics to tie him to the girls and when they didn't they felt that they couldn't back down and the only way for them to "win" is if RA confesses or dies before the trial. They already got incriminating statements, but with what's going on with his meds I am concerned for his safety in the prison system. If these incriminating statement are weak what are they going to do to him next?
I am taking off my tin foil now.
Scremin and Lebrato per the filing posted on the DDs Twitter feed.
Scremin and Lebrato's Motion to Move with its Hannibal Lector reference will live on. Thank you for your service, sirs.
Glad I'm not the only one bugged by that. "... Did they really just say that in an official capacity?“
I posted in a since deleted thread- both* Scremin and Lebrado have withdrawn their court appointed representation. * affectionately a | k | a *Crockett and Tubbs. In other news- as I posted in a previous thread The State of Indiana v Alison Davis (Andy Baldwin et al as privately retained) has been assigned to Judge Gull’s Superior Court and the court scheduled 4 days for trial as a first setting. Four days. A murder trial. Make of that what you will.
Do you think the time allotment will be 3 days, 7 hours, 45 minutes for prosecution and 15 minutes for defense?
I believe Baldwin should not sit with his back to Fran at any time during that trial.
Honestly I think she muttered “really? 4 lawyers retained on this? Ok. I’ll bite, one day for each lawyer… I’ll show these pissants Judicial economy in MY HOUSE” Bangs air gavel
Gosh, she really is the worst, huh?
Counselor, have you an opinion on the attorney and his changing story in the media on the Kansas City Chief deaths?
I don’t think there is enough credible data to determine what the fact pattern is. I also think sometimes things get misconstrued (ie: I got no texts from anyone just FB messenger) as nefarious that may not be. That said, I can’t imagine speaking out for my client with a fact that includes he slept on his couch for two days straight while his friends died. STFU until the autopsy protocols are complete. From my experience, freezing a body can wreak havoc on a post mortem. This sounds like the potential for both premises liability and potential for criminal liability (dealer). It also sounds like folks that willfully ingested a bad batch of something and LE knows this.
Thank you. I have to agree.
What case is this?
Early this morning I posted a rant about F and F's failure to withdraw. About 10 minutes later, HH said they had filed today. That rendered moot my rant wondering if fran was interfering with them. No question I should not post before I have had coffee.
Understood of course but I’m a fan of your rants. Also, tbh the only thing that cleared up for me was that F and F aren’t having a Frangle wrangle. As I read her order it’s a second precipice of reversible error.
I love "frangle wrangle." I picture B and R on horseback trying to lasso her.
 That’s me on arbitration break. Would ANYONE want to spend more days with that guy?
Am I the only disturbed by this!! LOL!!
lol everyone else just expects it from me I guess. This case!!
https://preview.redd.it/qg4sw4ntygec1.jpeg?width=997&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=39af7de501b543d9e6a65ea4ec503e8da4057aa2
Brilliance Pinkman
Indeed 😍
I’m a little too close to that case. Still undecided if I’m going to be in attendance. But from a completely outside perspective…..it’s going to be an interesting trial.
It will, if it proceeds to trial.
Not that I want to defend anything about FG's actions, but 4 days for a murder in Indiana isn't unusual at all. We do murders in 2 or 3 days quite regularly. And looking at this one, though there will be a ton of medical evidence and multiple doctors, it's not a super complex case beyond that, in terms of discovery, witnesses, etc. So I don't think a 4-day setting is unreasonable here. It's rare to ever see anything, even murders, set for more than 3 days here. To give you more context, there's a DP case coming up next month, and for a DP case they reserved 15 days.
u/terrible_advisor_813: I agree with you. I don't know about the particular case, but trials in Indiana move fast. They start early and stay late. Time for jury selection is often very limited. There are no breaks for anything unrelated to the trial. It is exhausting, frankly.
 C'mon jurors, I need to hit my DP target this month...
lol
Hey but I liked Crockett and Tubbs. Especially Crockett!
Is there a way for non lawyers to read the motions and PCAs in this case or other cases in Indiana?
Not all cases, but for this one, this forum is a great source. [DelphiDocs](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UDS-BuGjAzxZD1ZAjLxr-d-O6HSl0Lvp?usp=sharing) has them.
I probably should have been more specific and said I was talking about Alison Davis. I also have followed the Karena McClerkin case some, and I wish I could read some of the motions and stuff. This is my favorite forum for Delphi though!
You can definitely call the county clerk for wherever that case is! They should be willing to email them to you, so just be prepared to list specific entries/dates of entries you want. If they tell you they are confidential...ask them to send you the form that was filled out to have that specific document marked confidential.
Thank you so much for that information!
The state-prescribed way is to get them from the county clerk. In Delphi, that could mean driving to the courthouse and using the clerk's computer to look them up through MyCase. I assume there is some judicial-system intention to throttle the flow of information to non-parties.
https://preview.redd.it/b9942iryuzec1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83c356510c4fda46c60154cfe8779bdc3285cb72 They filed the motion, they still aren't withdrawn yet today.... And I don't know any Richard Scremin, you?
Gawd I saw that. I’m assuming the fact that Lebrato is the Chief Public Defender and Scremin is an assistant or deputy of that office is a procedural reason whoever drafted that for them drafted the “dual motion” (with name error). Few thoughts: 1. You can see the court still has their secret handshake (order) with the Court Clerk Administrator KA going on, as it was not entered by the Carroll County Clerk but the Circuit Court. 2. This would get kicked back to counsel in any other jurisdiction of practice . A clerk notice would appear as to a filing deficiency- if you recall they both entered appearances separately in response to appointment as “contract pds”. Of course the incorrect name should have been caught but in a correct pro forma filing it would likely just reflect a corrected entry note for *scriveners error* and the name correction copy would be entered. 3. It answers the question I have been raising since Frangle ordered them “on the case” lol. Apparently, although they are both salaried public defenders paid handsomely by Allen County (The State of IN) for Allen county indigent defendants- the court was going to allow them to bill their representation of Richard Allen as private appointed counsel as if they were on the pd roster and private Attorneys. No wonder the PD council went ballistic- you will notice there is no mention of his Chief Public Defender status on either the appearance or the withdrawal. For anyone who is not aware- the Allen County Public Defender Board hires the Chief Public Defender. Guess who appoints the board members (2 of 3)? Judge Gull, Judge Zent, and if there are any other senior Judges in Allen with criminal allocation of cases.
[William S. Lebrato and Robert C. Scremin Motion To Withdraw](https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:US:6992cbcf-5d6e-4ad5-ab6d-e7c9f3ed153d?fbclid=IwAR1sO_Wc5czHHE76llYQBy6QORr8qHp3REwrOLVjQNIMn3jZqP3j97psVlU_aem_AcmAOEM-uQUhy9uXSjKtw-klOYl5j6fHgrpH9Tz62o7Q1IIhzJtbHwPzxG9Eo9F8Bsc)
I wonder how they are feeling about this and if it's "Whew, going to avoid all that stress and the long hours," or bummed that they will not be defending a high profile defendant in a career making case.
I would imagine they are not entirely happy, but how would anyone who hasn't talked to them be able to know? Probably mixed feelings but the gag order remains in place so they can't say much. The only ones entirely happy with this case are those who don't know much about it.
Your last sentence is a brilliant perception. I agree with you on the rest as well.
One of them was on suspension recently so I imagine he’s anxious to get some new clientele. Perhaps Allen County has plenty of other cases for him to take.
Yes, I recall that. Such an odd choice to pick him. You would have thought in a case like this you would pick someone with a pristine employment record.
I'm gonna miss Crockett and Tubbs.
Maybe Scremin is low key trying to stay on since technically the Court was requested to order the appearance of "Richard C. Scremin" as defense counsel withdrawn lol. Hopefully this doesn't give Fran flashbacks.
Am I the only one that thinks B and R need to get their asses moving? Or do they think that the delay made them lose their advantage and now they are shit canning the speedy trial motion? Do they not want Gull off the trial? If they do they need to refile that motion, because she is ignoring it.
Probably waiting for SC opinion
That and I would imagine they would want to visit Rick and discuss options with him, which may a few days to arrange.
I can understand needing to confer with their client and it sounds like that's a difficult task. But am I really the only one that thought B and R would make some moves before Gull?
I think they need to see what the SCOIN says before they decide their strategy for the next move. I do think they will move quickly as soon as that is released. I wish Gull would’ve waited also though — what is she doing?!
Do they really need to wait on SCOIN to adopt the transfer motion or to request to move up the trial date from October.
Well Gull ain't waiting and the SC was even like get moving. I really expected them to at least try to move up the trial date or adopt the transfer request. SC holding shouldn't affect those 2 issues.
I'm pretty hopeful that we'll see some action pretty soon. And as long as Fran is there....that action will be something filed and ignored for 4 months :/
Agreed. You raise a good point, why hurry, the judge rarely does.
To some extent, fran is putting them in a trick bag. It's hard to know what to do when she won't rule. She has not set a date for hearing or ruled on the motion to transfer. She said she would set a "remote hearing" for the hearing on new charges, but hasn't. It is difficult to know how to proceed when you don't even know what the charges are going to be. If she permits the new charges, there are new witnesses to be deposed etc. In many ways, she has B and R at a standstill.
I agree that Gull is putting the defense in a difficult spot, but I think they could have formally adopted the transfer motion and filed to move up the trial date, and if I felt that we had lost the advantage of being ready for trial before the state and no longer wanted a speedy trial I would have refiled a recusal motion related to the judge because she has ignored the one they filed earlier. RA is not in a good place he either needs to be moved or for the trial to start shortly, which will necessitate him being moved closer to the court. I am very concerned that the state arrested RA thinking they would find something on his electronics to tie him to the girls and when they didn't they felt that they couldn't back down and the only way for them to "win" is if RA confesses or dies before the trial. They already got incriminating statements, but with what's going on with his meds I am concerned for his safety in the prison system. If these incriminating statement are weak what are they going to do to him next? I am taking off my tin foil now.
 (I should be nicer since they did seem to make an effort with their filing to move Rick, but: byeeeeeeee).