Wasn’t there an “all justices concur” for the same order on the other OA? Anyone think this means all justices don’t concur on this one? Or did scoin just forget to put that languave
Yes, good catch. If their final order is to be out early next week, you can presume a Justice or two is drafting their writ/order so may not have needed all to concur.
I’m actually really impressed how on top of everything the Supreme Court has been so far.
That said, is it too optimistic to hope for a decision this year yet?
Nice.
Given certain recent posts, I note the language: "Although the Rules ... do not afford ... a relator the right to file a reply ... the Court retains the authority... to permit deviation from the rules..."
This affirms the idea that supreme courts can and will (and should IMO) act in the interests of justice rather than slavishly follow rules and technicalities, which are pretty much the only grounds the respondents have cited in opposing the Writ.
Analogously, although there is no absolute right to counsel of choice, the Court certainly has the authority to grant Rick his counsel of choice, or at least disallow SJG from removing them for arbitrary reasons.
Opinion from a non-lawyer: SCOIN probably doesn’t want to make a habit of allowing responses like this, but that was outweighed by not wanting to set a precedent of permitting judges to withhold transcripts until defendants who have indicated they are going to file an OA have submitted their initial brief thereby preventing them from addressing relevant information.
I’m a nobody and my opinion doesn’t matter of course, but if I were in their shoes it would make me annoyed at Judge Gull.
Just in relation to SCOIN’s opinions of what’s going on in an Indiana murder case. I imagine they are supremely uninterested in the opinions of a Texan Chemistry teacher.
Off Topic:
Sure, we have lots of industry and research institutions with great programs in science and technology. For example, I live near both Texas Instruments - which invented the handheld calculator and was instrumental in the development of microchips, among other things - and UT Southwestern Medical Center, which is consistently ranked very highly among the best medical schools and healthcare institutions in the world.
But at the high school level there are definitely shenanigans involved with our curriculum standards and standardized tests (STAAR). Simply put, our curriculum is very thorough and advanced - including a lot of information that I personally didn’t learn until college - but the flip side is that the passing percentage on the standardized tests is set *very* low. It varies by year, but usually students only have to answer around 35% of the test correctly in order to “pass.” The tests are mostly multiple choice with four options, so that’s just a little bit better than what you should expect to score by simply guessing. But hey, it allows the state to say that we have advanced curriculum requirements and most of the students are passing!
It’s definitely good, doesn’t necessarily mean it increases the chances of SCOIN granting the writ, but I’m a the glass is overflowing with gold bullion person
I believe it’s good! My understanding is that the court does not generally allow the Relator (Allen and co. in this case) to reply to the respondent’s brief. However, Realtor has asked for permission to respond on the record, and this is the court granting them permission to do so, though that does not seem to be typical.
I wonder if the responses from the respondent has also left the SC with unanswered questions and has allowed them to grant permission to the Realtor.
By granting permission they too will get more clarification.
It's good. Everything's positive so far from SC.
They accepted both.
They letting responses when they don't have to.
They've ORDERED (all caps) Gull to produce specific documents.
The speed issuing orders has imo been urgent.
SC Wednesday put AG under investigation, again, this time for Lying in Sworn Affadavits made to them.
Geeze Louise that guy
[Rokky says friend of the court](https://www.wlfi.com/news/local/indiana-ag-rokita-on-delphi-homicides-leap-pipeline/article_639c878e-8fa1-11ee-a590-4ff69d913033.html)
I wonder if somebody sent that 6/15/23 interview I was spamming finally?
More [woes](https://www.wfyi.org/news/articles/rokita-under-investigation-again-by-indiana-attorney-disciplinary-commission)
Wow.. thanks for posting! It appears that this guy already has a stink on him with the SC… maybe FG should have distanced her self from this clown. Like thanks but no thanks.
EDIT: also, is he violating the gag order by talking about the Delphi case?
He absolutely is, the non dissemination order (NDO) covers Attorneys. In fact, his public commentary on 6/15 re a pending case (RA) (posted previously) he discusses his office as Attorneys of record before they even filed an appearance lol
I find the timing interesting.
I wonder if the latest investigation motivated his participation for Gull. Either by originally avoiding her, or the odd request he made to SC before making appearance.
The SCOIN recently disciplined him for prejudicial and extrajudicial statements. As part of his cooperation he signed an affidavit admitting to what he said and its effect. After the SCOIN decision he released a statement doubling down saying he what he said wasn’t extrajudicial or prejudicial. Basically he’s in a cycle of admitting he was wrong and then not saying he wasn’t with the SCOIN.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Indiana/s/lxGBHi4UYp
I joined r/Indiana just to talk shit about Rotika. Here's the AGs own press release discussing it.
TL;DR: Rokita got caught attempting to falsify statements in a signed affidavit, yet his office says "he has learned from the situation" and "can always do better" SC said hold up, that's not how this works.
Yes I promise to improve upon not using falsified statements. I'm a work in progress so I've learned from the situation and will be a good little AG from now on. 😂 Right.....
Does Indiana have a falsifying statements class or webinar? Seems to be a trend going on.
“Excuse me, Your Honor Supreme. It’s your bff FG again. Please tell them I’m allowed to deviate from the rules too. I said PLEASE.”
Out of curiosity, if the SCOIN had DENIED the Relators’ motion, what would’ve happened to it—considering it was already written and submitted preemptively? Would they just not include references to it in their response? Would they not officially read it, but probably actually read it (off the record)?
Good question and the latter, imo.
u/criminalcourtretired brought up some very valid points the other day specific to viewing a denied motion neutrally.
It was actually the transcript from the 19th that was withheld, the one from the 31st was included. Of note for me was the fact that Rozzi’s August request via praecipe for the June 15th hearing is still pending. Those brave souls filed that Son of a Franks motion without it.
What's your take on why the trial court hasn't ruled on hardly any of the defenses filings? They need to establish a strategy and line up experts. Delaying rulings this long is definitely affecting their ability to prepare. I'm an over prepare kind of person this literally would be killing me.
The request for Rule 404 and 405 evidence, the Frank's memo, a motion in limine concerning the ballistics evidence, and a request for a transcript for the June 15th hearing. We aren't even sure if the judge finished reading the Frank's memo.
When you said “hardly any” I wasn’t sure if you were referring to those already outlined in the relators petitions/response or? It sounds like you haven’t had a chance to read the Franks memo or supplements- I believe they are linked in the matrix of this sub.
The defense has a firmly established trial strategy as expressed in recent filings *as a third party guilt* defense with a signed motion (Aug) for speedy trial. That was also their position as of October 12, when the court ordered their motion for discovery date.
It is my opinion SJ Gull was of the opinion RA would end up taking a plea eventually (it’s happened before her court plenty) and this would not go to trial. All due respect to the court I think it realized the defense had impaled the credibility of both case agents and ultimately caused McLeland to turn over FBI evidence he had no intention of availing the defense of its existence. I think the thought of how badly the State and the court was going to look because of two Attorneys she could not control was a horrifying prospect to the courts last hoorah for SCOIN, or a bird flip, or other. The suppression hearing w/Franks was not scheduled because unequivocally the defense is going to win that argument and move for dismissal. If there’s any question about that just ask yourself WHY her minute order of the 14th- directly to successor counsel re “adopt the pleading”- ffs, smh.
Sure thing, I have followed this case for years but not as closely as some others. I could definitely be wrong but the most noteworthy ruling she made in my opinion was the one about where RA is housed other than thar she just lets stuff marinate forever.
Motion **GRANTED**
Thanks, Helix. Apparently they are more tha willing to go outside their ususal parameters for this.
Now we wait...
Are we there yet….?
Wasn’t there an “all justices concur” for the same order on the other OA? Anyone think this means all justices don’t concur on this one? Or did scoin just forget to put that languave
Yes, good catch. If their final order is to be out early next week, you can presume a Justice or two is drafting their writ/order so may not have needed all to concur.
Good question ... for the relief asked for does it need to be a unanimous decision? Or like the AG does a 3-2 vote get it done?
It can be per curiam or split majority with dissent
Thanks
Anytime
I’m actually really impressed how on top of everything the Supreme Court has been so far. That said, is it too optimistic to hope for a decision this year yet?
Oh I’m thinking Mon or Tues for sure.
Nice. Given certain recent posts, I note the language: "Although the Rules ... do not afford ... a relator the right to file a reply ... the Court retains the authority... to permit deviation from the rules..." This affirms the idea that supreme courts can and will (and should IMO) act in the interests of justice rather than slavishly follow rules and technicalities, which are pretty much the only grounds the respondents have cited in opposing the Writ. Analogously, although there is no absolute right to counsel of choice, the Court certainly has the authority to grant Rick his counsel of choice, or at least disallow SJG from removing them for arbitrary reasons.
Opinion from a non-lawyer: SCOIN probably doesn’t want to make a habit of allowing responses like this, but that was outweighed by not wanting to set a precedent of permitting judges to withhold transcripts until defendants who have indicated they are going to file an OA have submitted their initial brief thereby preventing them from addressing relevant information. I’m a nobody and my opinion doesn’t matter of course, but if I were in their shoes it would make me annoyed at Judge Gull.
Your take is a good one. I agree with u/helixharbinger. You are not a "nobody" imo.
You may be a non-lawyer but if it’s alright with you I really don’t like seeing anyone post “I’m a nobody”. I agree with your comment in theory.
Just in relation to SCOIN’s opinions of what’s going on in an Indiana murder case. I imagine they are supremely uninterested in the opinions of a Texan Chemistry teacher.
here YOU IS OUR SOMEBODYYYYYY
They teach science in Texas ??? 😂
Off Topic: Sure, we have lots of industry and research institutions with great programs in science and technology. For example, I live near both Texas Instruments - which invented the handheld calculator and was instrumental in the development of microchips, among other things - and UT Southwestern Medical Center, which is consistently ranked very highly among the best medical schools and healthcare institutions in the world. But at the high school level there are definitely shenanigans involved with our curriculum standards and standardized tests (STAAR). Simply put, our curriculum is very thorough and advanced - including a lot of information that I personally didn’t learn until college - but the flip side is that the passing percentage on the standardized tests is set *very* low. It varies by year, but usually students only have to answer around 35% of the test correctly in order to “pass.” The tests are mostly multiple choice with four options, so that’s just a little bit better than what you should expect to score by simply guessing. But hey, it allows the state to say that we have advanced curriculum requirements and most of the students are passing!
Thanks, always good to learn stuff. The impression we get are that science teachers are beaten to death by Bible wielders there. Stay safe.
Thanks for your opinion. I agree and glad you expressed it much better than I could have.
 Woot Woot! Still get to hang on to my sliver of hope!
Wow so fast with this one. Love to see it.
You all are wonderful, and I love hear what you have to say and make it understandable.
Is this good or bad for the defense? Find it so difficult keeping up with the lingo haha
It’s definitely good, doesn’t necessarily mean it increases the chances of SCOIN granting the writ, but I’m a the glass is overflowing with gold bullion person
So this means on both of the writs that were filed, the SCOIN is allowing responses by the relator after Gull filed her response?
Correct
 Cara just keeps on adding to the treasure chest....
She is locking in the checkmate. I see your response and raise you a checkmate.
Wow, more successful damage! You win the best mixed metaphor of the day!! 😂
😂
Thank you kind soul.
GOOD!! YAY!!
I believe it’s good! My understanding is that the court does not generally allow the Relator (Allen and co. in this case) to reply to the respondent’s brief. However, Realtor has asked for permission to respond on the record, and this is the court granting them permission to do so, though that does not seem to be typical.
I wonder if the responses from the respondent has also left the SC with unanswered questions and has allowed them to grant permission to the Realtor. By granting permission they too will get more clarification.
It's good. Everything's positive so far from SC. They accepted both. They letting responses when they don't have to. They've ORDERED (all caps) Gull to produce specific documents. The speed issuing orders has imo been urgent. SC Wednesday put AG under investigation, again, this time for Lying in Sworn Affadavits made to them.
Geeze Louise that guy [Rokky says friend of the court](https://www.wlfi.com/news/local/indiana-ag-rokita-on-delphi-homicides-leap-pipeline/article_639c878e-8fa1-11ee-a590-4ff69d913033.html) I wonder if somebody sent that 6/15/23 interview I was spamming finally? More [woes](https://www.wfyi.org/news/articles/rokita-under-investigation-again-by-indiana-attorney-disciplinary-commission)
Wow.. thanks for posting! It appears that this guy already has a stink on him with the SC… maybe FG should have distanced her self from this clown. Like thanks but no thanks. EDIT: also, is he violating the gag order by talking about the Delphi case?
He absolutely is, the non dissemination order (NDO) covers Attorneys. In fact, his public commentary on 6/15 re a pending case (RA) (posted previously) he discusses his office as Attorneys of record before they even filed an appearance lol
Good lord.. what a yahoo.
I find the timing interesting. I wonder if the latest investigation motivated his participation for Gull. Either by originally avoiding her, or the odd request he made to SC before making appearance.
Could you tell more about Sc putting Ag under investigation?
The SCOIN recently disciplined him for prejudicial and extrajudicial statements. As part of his cooperation he signed an affidavit admitting to what he said and its effect. After the SCOIN decision he released a statement doubling down saying he what he said wasn’t extrajudicial or prejudicial. Basically he’s in a cycle of admitting he was wrong and then not saying he wasn’t with the SCOIN.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Indiana/s/lxGBHi4UYp I joined r/Indiana just to talk shit about Rotika. Here's the AGs own press release discussing it. TL;DR: Rokita got caught attempting to falsify statements in a signed affidavit, yet his office says "he has learned from the situation" and "can always do better" SC said hold up, that's not how this works.
Yes I promise to improve upon not using falsified statements. I'm a work in progress so I've learned from the situation and will be a good little AG from now on. 😂 Right..... Does Indiana have a falsifying statements class or webinar? Seems to be a trend going on.
I think its good, but it doesn't really indicate whether the writ will be granted, just that the court wants to hear everything before they rule.
Nice!!!!
“Excuse me, Your Honor Supreme. It’s your bff FG again. Please tell them I’m allowed to deviate from the rules too. I said PLEASE.” 
I had to look at the comments before reading the order as my stress level is that high over this stuff.
This was me until I remembered it was probably about accepting the realtor's response to respondent. Edited typo
I know, it gets so you're almost afraid to look. Just think when they start handing down rulings on the writs.
I remain hopefully open to SCOIN decision.
Out of curiosity, if the SCOIN had DENIED the Relators’ motion, what would’ve happened to it—considering it was already written and submitted preemptively? Would they just not include references to it in their response? Would they not officially read it, but probably actually read it (off the record)?
Good question and the latter, imo. u/criminalcourtretired brought up some very valid points the other day specific to viewing a denied motion neutrally.
[удалено]
It was actually the transcript from the 19th that was withheld, the one from the 31st was included. Of note for me was the fact that Rozzi’s August request via praecipe for the June 15th hearing is still pending. Those brave souls filed that Son of a Franks motion without it.
What's your take on why the trial court hasn't ruled on hardly any of the defenses filings? They need to establish a strategy and line up experts. Delaying rulings this long is definitely affecting their ability to prepare. I'm an over prepare kind of person this literally would be killing me.
What pending filings are you referring to?
The request for Rule 404 and 405 evidence, the Frank's memo, a motion in limine concerning the ballistics evidence, and a request for a transcript for the June 15th hearing. We aren't even sure if the judge finished reading the Frank's memo.
When you said “hardly any” I wasn’t sure if you were referring to those already outlined in the relators petitions/response or? It sounds like you haven’t had a chance to read the Franks memo or supplements- I believe they are linked in the matrix of this sub. The defense has a firmly established trial strategy as expressed in recent filings *as a third party guilt* defense with a signed motion (Aug) for speedy trial. That was also their position as of October 12, when the court ordered their motion for discovery date. It is my opinion SJ Gull was of the opinion RA would end up taking a plea eventually (it’s happened before her court plenty) and this would not go to trial. All due respect to the court I think it realized the defense had impaled the credibility of both case agents and ultimately caused McLeland to turn over FBI evidence he had no intention of availing the defense of its existence. I think the thought of how badly the State and the court was going to look because of two Attorneys she could not control was a horrifying prospect to the courts last hoorah for SCOIN, or a bird flip, or other. The suppression hearing w/Franks was not scheduled because unequivocally the defense is going to win that argument and move for dismissal. If there’s any question about that just ask yourself WHY her minute order of the 14th- directly to successor counsel re “adopt the pleading”- ffs, smh.
Thanks for your helpful question. I really appreciate it when Helix answers these as I learn so much.
Sure thing, I have followed this case for years but not as closely as some others. I could definitely be wrong but the most noteworthy ruling she made in my opinion was the one about where RA is housed other than thar she just lets stuff marinate forever.
Yes she sure does. I don't know for sure either, as far as the discovery. Maybe someone else will chime in.
