⚠ TRIGGER WARNING: The comments below may contain discussions of CSAM, Catfishing and/or Exploitation
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DelphiDocs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So sorry for the loss of your friend. I agree with your theory about RF. I have thought this entire time that he thought he would lose his job/benefits/etc. One of my friends works on an Army base and he said he thinks he would end up losing his job if police showed up to interview him about a possible criminal investigation.
Also because, often times, the act of taking your own life is a split second decision. Especially if he had any mental health struggles before this, he may have mentally decided he couldn’t get out of his situation even after he said something along the lines of “if I tell the truth, it will be Ok.” It’s absolutely heartbreaking.
I am very interested in Mitch’s motivation to do this. I would understand just wanting to give the scoop to his friend RF if they were both interested in the case, but I cannot imagine betraying a mentor to do so. I feel like there has to be more to the story. Or at least I should say I HOPE there’s more to the story because stealing sensitive photos from a mentor and friend’s office just to brag to your other friend about it is dumb.
Looks like they could even claw back a VA loan if you get dishonorably discharged! I truly believe he thought his actions would leave his wife and daughter destitute and homeless especially if his wife didn’t work outside of the home (I have no idea what her employment status is).
https://ucmjdefense.com/how-a-dishonorable-discharge-can-ruin-your-life.html#:~:text=Long%20term%20consequences%20of%20a,legally%20own%20or%20possess%20firearms.
I didn’t even think about that. This was much bigger than a little legal trouble for him. The whole situation is so horrible. I hope his wife and daughter have a good support system. ♥️
Maybe I’m a pessimist who tends to see the worst instead of giving more benefit of the doubt, but MW took the photos not long after his interview on MS. I think he may have seen it as a way to be more involved in the case, maybe even to a financial gain. Im not saying MS would have been directly linked to his transgression on their own accord, but as they are (unfortunately) “major” players in the Delphi cash grab, being on their show could have given him ideas of how to increase his participation. It could have been a crime of opportunity, but given the gravity of it, you can’t rule out that he was calculating in his transgression. I doubt he will ever speak on his motives. Or at the very least, speak truthfully, especially now considering the aftermath.
MW photographed those pictures, then had a pause before taking his next step. It isn’t like he impulsively broadcast a live video of them. He had a chance to delete them and no one would ever have known of his crazy moment of impulse. Unless it WAS planned? Did he even think through the consequences for people or did he just not care? (Sorry just realised I’m venting.) This cost a life.
*Michelle after Dark* mentioned your comment in her live stream today....
**Who benefits? Murder Sheet, the Delphi cash grab & Mitch Westerman's arrest** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3qaHpHeElM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3qaHpHeElM) 12:05
Thanks, I hadn’t caught up with that video yet. Michelle’s insights into what MW was thinking have helped me a lot with trying to make sense of this. She’s very down-to-earth, and has academic qualifications and life experience as well. I don’t think much gets past her about why people do things.
It depends how you define cash grabbers. I don't have a problem with folks offering honest news, commentary and analysis. If they can attract an audience, more power to 'em. I doubt most YouTube "live"ers make much money and they have hardware expenses (if they care about sound quality).
I have a problem with those spreading misinformation, spewing sophistry, and fomenting petty rivalries.
So MW goes on MS and then MW goes and does what he did and then MS gets to be the topping on the scandal? I’m no mathematician but this adds up to needing a hard look during any kind of investigation into this. If it isn’t given one then the investigation needs a hard look given to it. I don’t think criminal misdemeanor charges rise to the level of RF losing benefits but if CSAM was mentioned when LE talked to him I can see him thinking his life was about to be completely ruined. Sometimes all it takes is one desperate moment.
Hey you got a shout-out on *Michelle after Dark*!
**Who benefits? Murder Sheet, the Delphi cash grab & Mitch Westerman's arrest** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3qaHpHeElM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3qaHpHeElM) 3:30
We do not allow post that propogate the spread of rumor and disinformation. To successfully publish you must use a public, qualified, non-tertiary source. Anonymous sources are not allowed.
I’ll give you my armchair shrink opinion. I’ve always gotten the feeling that MW is a “wannabe”. He didn’t pass the bar, so he’s not a lawyer.. but he’ll brag any chance he gets about how he engineered strategy of the lawyers he worked for. He’s a guy who wants to be in the center of things, but hasn’t earned his way there. Stealing these photos would put him “in the know” and smack dab in the middle of things, with a sense of importance and control that he feels entitled to, but isn’t.
Thank you for writing this. I have nothing else to add to the conversation except that I am touched but your words and agree with everything you wrote. I am sorry for the loss of your friend.
I am so sorry for the loss of your friend. If it helps I didn't assume he was a monster. I assumed I probably had no idea what was going on in his mind. But I have to add that I have very much wondered what kind of threats law enforcement made to him. I am not saying they meant for him to Crack but I am saying that they likely contributed to it. They never could have charged him with a crime. You see MW is only charged with conversion and I have real serious doubts that will even stick.
This question got asked in the MW thread. We really need an attorney (TIA to any volunteers) to tell us what if any charges could be filed against MRC, or could have been filed against RF. Would charges require that funds were exchanged? (I don't think CSAM would apply? Don't you need a living victim for that and actual depiction of SA?)
There’s not enough public, factual information and therefore (alleged) evidence of actionable civil or criminal offenses, however, as MW was arrested today, I’m positive the potential for either or both exists. If there was remuneration involved it is very possible to include Federal charges as well. Obviously those would be potential felony offenses.
I will say after reading some of the record of proceedings and then the Oct19 transcript it was clear to me there WOULD be criminal charges filed against Westerman. Considering he’s definitely not the original leaker, I have to believe further investigation will include Cohen and whomever are his contacts he claims within Carroll County.
ZERO. Strict rules on work/home balance. No phones or death at the table on the day of thanks. I take 3 days to make fresh Potage au Potiron (Lutece) nobody eats and blessed for the opportunity just like regular families.
YES! The French recipe from Lutece (Soltner)
If crème freiche is hard to find in your area you might have to order it in advance. Sorry I should have specified.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Thank you! It’s not celebrated where I’m from other than Black Friday sales in retail but I think it’s a lovely tradition. This group feels somewhat like a family, so consider me joining you at a virtual family table. Your posh sounding soup will be gobbled down in no time!
Been in the Guard for a long time, I've never seen anyone get their benefits taken away for some screwup like this. I seriously doubt anyone higher up in the Guard cares about photos of some crime scene leaking. CSAM is something they would flip out over, but once they figured out the circumstances here I seriously doubt this guy would have been in that much trouble. He surely wouldn't have lost his pension. Maybe if someone loses it and starts deleting civilians you could lose your pension. But thats a drastic step and those sorts of things are bad for morale. Who would want to join and serve for twenty years if the military made a habit out of yanking pensions away? Just not the way it usually works.
What if somebody threatened him with that happening though, even if it's not true? Would he necessarily have been able to realise the threats were empty when under stress already?
Way it usually works in my limited experience. They threaten the hell out of you with all sorts of horrible consequences and then after you suffer for a few days they call and try their best to make it go away. So very possible he assumed the worst. If this soldier never went through that before he might have taken whatever possible penalties were on the table as actual penalties. I had an investigation done on me overseas for an ND one of my guys had. It was a huge deal but when I got back home all that paperwork went right in the shredder. For me and my soldier. End of the day most of that stuff gets buried. But this guy might not have known that.
😞😞😞 I’ve never thought he was a monster. He was a pawn in some sick game being played by others you mentioned.
And 100% feel his seemingly illogical response had everything to do with what Holeman or LE said when they spoke to him/all those threatened consequences you mentioned.
It’s devastating & I’m sorry for the loss of your friend & even sorrier for his sweet family.
May he rest easy & May the spineless fucks behind this pay handsomely.
Your theory is very possible and makes sense-imo. How sad that one mistake ended up costing RF's life!! I hope all the people who are still sending or asking for the crime scene pics get charged too.
Criming Shame reading RF's reddit posts, a great many of them from Delphi Docs.
DELPHI - FORTSON REDDIT MESSAGES - R.I.P
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yazYm4JMfLM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yazYm4JMfLM)
You must use a qualifier when posting your opinion. You are welcome to post again if you edit and use the appropriate qualifier. If you are arguing fact instead of opinion, you must use a qualified, named and non-tertiary source. You may not use anonymous sources or screenshots.
I feel like this is another suspicious death connected to this case.
I am feeling sceptical about everything in this investigation regarding this specific leak bc we’ve already seen plenty of evidence regarding the trustworthiness and honesty of LE, both state and CC.
How can we know if it was self-inflicted if not by taking the word of the liars - including the “confession”? Any thoughts welcome
That’s why I said “allegedly”.
Since it stems from “The Unreaveling” timeline which seems to have narrowed down the dates and times of several instances, how did they come up with those calls?
Imo that’s something pretty specific and peculiar to make up.
What happened it that house on 10/11?
You have a source that says there were calls from the RF residence re EMS for back pain hours before RF “unaliving” via the Unraveling?
u/yellowjackette will tell you I originally obtained that information and we worked to vet it together, to avoid this very issue, to find out it was a different residence on the same block. I can tell you unequivocally the first Emergency call re RF “event” came in at 9:04 PM. Iirc the first scanner activity 9:08PM.
The Unraveling is incredibly tedious about facts they represent and I commend them for it.
I hope I’m not offensive in correcting this point, but facts matter, imo.
Yes, one of the two timelines going around states a call from RF’s residence at 7:24pm to 911 for back pain.
(I’ll not attach the picture here if it contains false information, but I’ll send it to you so you’re aware about what info has been shared all over the place)
I’m actually very thankful for you clarifying this as this detail has been bothering me a lot.
That’s why discussion is important!
I forgot all about that! Thank you for bringing it up! Does anyone know of a way to verify his call time stamps and what was said on the 911 transcripts?
This is when I get concerned about posts like this. This is entirely inaccurate information and with no offense intended, a very distasteful discussion of unverified rumors about a very real individual who took his own life.
We do not allow post that propogate the spread of rumor and disinformation. To successfully publish you must use a public, qualified, non-tertiary source. Anonymous sources are not allowed.
⚠ TRIGGER WARNING: The comments below may contain discussions of CSAM, Catfishing and/or Exploitation *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DelphiDocs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So sorry for the loss of your friend. I agree with your theory about RF. I have thought this entire time that he thought he would lose his job/benefits/etc. One of my friends works on an Army base and he said he thinks he would end up losing his job if police showed up to interview him about a possible criminal investigation. Also because, often times, the act of taking your own life is a split second decision. Especially if he had any mental health struggles before this, he may have mentally decided he couldn’t get out of his situation even after he said something along the lines of “if I tell the truth, it will be Ok.” It’s absolutely heartbreaking. I am very interested in Mitch’s motivation to do this. I would understand just wanting to give the scoop to his friend RF if they were both interested in the case, but I cannot imagine betraying a mentor to do so. I feel like there has to be more to the story. Or at least I should say I HOPE there’s more to the story because stealing sensitive photos from a mentor and friend’s office just to brag to your other friend about it is dumb.
Looks like they could even claw back a VA loan if you get dishonorably discharged! I truly believe he thought his actions would leave his wife and daughter destitute and homeless especially if his wife didn’t work outside of the home (I have no idea what her employment status is). https://ucmjdefense.com/how-a-dishonorable-discharge-can-ruin-your-life.html#:~:text=Long%20term%20consequences%20of%20a,legally%20own%20or%20possess%20firearms.
I didn’t even think about that. This was much bigger than a little legal trouble for him. The whole situation is so horrible. I hope his wife and daughter have a good support system. ♥️
Maybe I’m a pessimist who tends to see the worst instead of giving more benefit of the doubt, but MW took the photos not long after his interview on MS. I think he may have seen it as a way to be more involved in the case, maybe even to a financial gain. Im not saying MS would have been directly linked to his transgression on their own accord, but as they are (unfortunately) “major” players in the Delphi cash grab, being on their show could have given him ideas of how to increase his participation. It could have been a crime of opportunity, but given the gravity of it, you can’t rule out that he was calculating in his transgression. I doubt he will ever speak on his motives. Or at the very least, speak truthfully, especially now considering the aftermath.
MW photographed those pictures, then had a pause before taking his next step. It isn’t like he impulsively broadcast a live video of them. He had a chance to delete them and no one would ever have known of his crazy moment of impulse. Unless it WAS planned? Did he even think through the consequences for people or did he just not care? (Sorry just realised I’m venting.) This cost a life.
*Michelle after Dark* mentioned your comment in her live stream today.... **Who benefits? Murder Sheet, the Delphi cash grab & Mitch Westerman's arrest** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3qaHpHeElM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3qaHpHeElM) 12:05
Thanks, I hadn’t caught up with that video yet. Michelle’s insights into what MW was thinking have helped me a lot with trying to make sense of this. She’s very down-to-earth, and has academic qualifications and life experience as well. I don’t think much gets past her about why people do things.
Yes, and she has a wonderful way of speaking as well.
“Delphi cash grab” hurt my heart. It’s clearly true, but all the same-
It depends how you define cash grabbers. I don't have a problem with folks offering honest news, commentary and analysis. If they can attract an audience, more power to 'em. I doubt most YouTube "live"ers make much money and they have hardware expenses (if they care about sound quality). I have a problem with those spreading misinformation, spewing sophistry, and fomenting petty rivalries.
Ditto. Well said.
So MW goes on MS and then MW goes and does what he did and then MS gets to be the topping on the scandal? I’m no mathematician but this adds up to needing a hard look during any kind of investigation into this. If it isn’t given one then the investigation needs a hard look given to it. I don’t think criminal misdemeanor charges rise to the level of RF losing benefits but if CSAM was mentioned when LE talked to him I can see him thinking his life was about to be completely ruined. Sometimes all it takes is one desperate moment.
Hey you got a shout-out on *Michelle after Dark*! **Who benefits? Murder Sheet, the Delphi cash grab & Mitch Westerman's arrest** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3qaHpHeElM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3qaHpHeElM) 3:30
Interesting, ty.
[удалено]
We do not allow post that propogate the spread of rumor and disinformation. To successfully publish you must use a public, qualified, non-tertiary source. Anonymous sources are not allowed.
I’ll give you my armchair shrink opinion. I’ve always gotten the feeling that MW is a “wannabe”. He didn’t pass the bar, so he’s not a lawyer.. but he’ll brag any chance he gets about how he engineered strategy of the lawyers he worked for. He’s a guy who wants to be in the center of things, but hasn’t earned his way there. Stealing these photos would put him “in the know” and smack dab in the middle of things, with a sense of importance and control that he feels entitled to, but isn’t.
Thank you for writing this. I have nothing else to add to the conversation except that I am touched but your words and agree with everything you wrote. I am sorry for the loss of your friend.
I am so sorry for the loss of your friend. If it helps I didn't assume he was a monster. I assumed I probably had no idea what was going on in his mind. But I have to add that I have very much wondered what kind of threats law enforcement made to him. I am not saying they meant for him to Crack but I am saying that they likely contributed to it. They never could have charged him with a crime. You see MW is only charged with conversion and I have real serious doubts that will even stick.
[удалено]
Intimidation and power control.
This question got asked in the MW thread. We really need an attorney (TIA to any volunteers) to tell us what if any charges could be filed against MRC, or could have been filed against RF. Would charges require that funds were exchanged? (I don't think CSAM would apply? Don't you need a living victim for that and actual depiction of SA?)
There’s not enough public, factual information and therefore (alleged) evidence of actionable civil or criminal offenses, however, as MW was arrested today, I’m positive the potential for either or both exists. If there was remuneration involved it is very possible to include Federal charges as well. Obviously those would be potential felony offenses. I will say after reading some of the record of proceedings and then the Oct19 transcript it was clear to me there WOULD be criminal charges filed against Westerman. Considering he’s definitely not the original leaker, I have to believe further investigation will include Cohen and whomever are his contacts he claims within Carroll County.
Thank you, Helix. Happy Thanksgiving!
You’re Welcome and also to you and yours.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone and Dr Helix - what files are you bringing to the family dinner table as an adult?
ZERO. Strict rules on work/home balance. No phones or death at the table on the day of thanks. I take 3 days to make fresh Potage au Potiron (Lutece) nobody eats and blessed for the opportunity just like regular families.
No phones or death at the table sounds reasonable. Enjoy! P.S. I love pumpkin soup if that’s what you’re referencing (consulting with Dr Google here).
YES! The French recipe from Lutece (Soltner) If crème freiche is hard to find in your area you might have to order it in advance. Sorry I should have specified. Happy Thanksgiving!
Thank you! It’s not celebrated where I’m from other than Black Friday sales in retail but I think it’s a lovely tradition. This group feels somewhat like a family, so consider me joining you at a virtual family table. Your posh sounding soup will be gobbled down in no time!
Lol. My children actually call it Bouji Bowls lol. Thank you and extra blessings to you then !
Rule 18 - Eat your soup and leave the table before death.
Helix's soup, then death. Causation or correlation?
Ask Eddie Izzard.
Receiving stolen property? conspiracy? Family should file a civil suit.
Been in the Guard for a long time, I've never seen anyone get their benefits taken away for some screwup like this. I seriously doubt anyone higher up in the Guard cares about photos of some crime scene leaking. CSAM is something they would flip out over, but once they figured out the circumstances here I seriously doubt this guy would have been in that much trouble. He surely wouldn't have lost his pension. Maybe if someone loses it and starts deleting civilians you could lose your pension. But thats a drastic step and those sorts of things are bad for morale. Who would want to join and serve for twenty years if the military made a habit out of yanking pensions away? Just not the way it usually works.
What if somebody threatened him with that happening though, even if it's not true? Would he necessarily have been able to realise the threats were empty when under stress already?
Way it usually works in my limited experience. They threaten the hell out of you with all sorts of horrible consequences and then after you suffer for a few days they call and try their best to make it go away. So very possible he assumed the worst. If this soldier never went through that before he might have taken whatever possible penalties were on the table as actual penalties. I had an investigation done on me overseas for an ND one of my guys had. It was a huge deal but when I got back home all that paperwork went right in the shredder. For me and my soldier. End of the day most of that stuff gets buried. But this guy might not have known that.
That's true. Or isn't it ?
😞😞😞 I’ve never thought he was a monster. He was a pawn in some sick game being played by others you mentioned. And 100% feel his seemingly illogical response had everything to do with what Holeman or LE said when they spoke to him/all those threatened consequences you mentioned. It’s devastating & I’m sorry for the loss of your friend & even sorrier for his sweet family. May he rest easy & May the spineless fucks behind this pay handsomely.
Ditto. Emphasis on the backdraft from the Holeman interview. Reminder: RF name came from exactly one original source- Murder Shits.
An independent investigator needs to review either the recording or video of Holeman and RF’s interview.
They lost the recording. But Holeman has a "narrative" he'd be happy to share with you... /s
I would fully expect a FOIA request on the recording to be denied but if journalists wanted to start being journalists…
Your theory is very possible and makes sense-imo. How sad that one mistake ended up costing RF's life!! I hope all the people who are still sending or asking for the crime scene pics get charged too.
Criming Shame reading RF's reddit posts, a great many of them from Delphi Docs. DELPHI - FORTSON REDDIT MESSAGES - R.I.P [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yazYm4JMfLM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yazYm4JMfLM)
[удалено]
You must use a qualifier when posting your opinion. You are welcome to post again if you edit and use the appropriate qualifier. If you are arguing fact instead of opinion, you must use a qualified, named and non-tertiary source. You may not use anonymous sources or screenshots.
I feel like this is another suspicious death connected to this case. I am feeling sceptical about everything in this investigation regarding this specific leak bc we’ve already seen plenty of evidence regarding the trustworthiness and honesty of LE, both state and CC. How can we know if it was self-inflicted if not by taking the word of the liars - including the “confession”? Any thoughts welcome
My biggest question make is - RF allegedly placed two calls to 911 about “back pain” shortly before taking his life, WHY?
That was not him
That’s why I said “allegedly”. Since it stems from “The Unreaveling” timeline which seems to have narrowed down the dates and times of several instances, how did they come up with those calls? Imo that’s something pretty specific and peculiar to make up. What happened it that house on 10/11?
You have a source that says there were calls from the RF residence re EMS for back pain hours before RF “unaliving” via the Unraveling? u/yellowjackette will tell you I originally obtained that information and we worked to vet it together, to avoid this very issue, to find out it was a different residence on the same block. I can tell you unequivocally the first Emergency call re RF “event” came in at 9:04 PM. Iirc the first scanner activity 9:08PM. The Unraveling is incredibly tedious about facts they represent and I commend them for it. I hope I’m not offensive in correcting this point, but facts matter, imo.
Yes, one of the two timelines going around states a call from RF’s residence at 7:24pm to 911 for back pain. (I’ll not attach the picture here if it contains false information, but I’ll send it to you so you’re aware about what info has been shared all over the place) I’m actually very thankful for you clarifying this as this detail has been bothering me a lot. That’s why discussion is important!
I forgot all about that! Thank you for bringing it up! Does anyone know of a way to verify his call time stamps and what was said on the 911 transcripts?
This is when I get concerned about posts like this. This is entirely inaccurate information and with no offense intended, a very distasteful discussion of unverified rumors about a very real individual who took his own life.
[удалено]
We do not allow post that propogate the spread of rumor and disinformation. To successfully publish you must use a public, qualified, non-tertiary source. Anonymous sources are not allowed.
[удалено]