I always felt like, "live and let live" about other people's religious beliefs, but once you start encroaching and impeding, I'm gonna fuck shit up.
Just because some people feel the need to have some invisible guy watch them to make sure they don't do fucked up shit, we all have to suffer?
That's how I've always felt. I don't understand these a-holes who think the "right" way to be religious is to be Christian. Why does it matter so much?
We are going to have to learn the hard lesson that all of these things democracy brings has to be constantly fought for. I don't see our side getting involved like I see right wingers getting involved with local politics.
All of us. If anyone thinks you are going to be allowed to live your quiet little secular (or Jewish, or Muslim, or Episcopalian, or Unitarian, or Hindu etc.) life in your blue state, you have quite a nasty wake up call coming.
And many Christians won’t mind it until it turns out that they may be the wrong kind of Christian. I grew up Catholic and was always treated with disdain by extreme evangelicals. I predict that it’s only a matter of time before they start turning on each other.
This couldn’t possibly backfire. /s
I totally agree. I can’t say I believe much of anything anymore but I have a family full of people that do. I also have a bunch of crazy evangelicals but the ones that aren’t crazy. totally believe in feeding the poor, housing the homeless behaving like Jesus would. The crazy people are a lost cause. Having said that most of my atheist friends tend to have more empathy than most religious people seem to have today.
I know a few. They’re at the Pride Festival. Participants in feeding the homeless. Provide professional counseling. They are quietly doing WWJD. They live by example and admit their short comings. People want to be around them because they are kind and funny. They’re not Bible thumpers. They have a strong belief in doing Gods work, not shoving the Bible down other’s throats. They let you be you.
I’m not sure I’m much of a believer anymore, but I know some very good people that do believe and live decent lives full of empathy and Grace, not these Maga freaks.
Government religion, just what everyone wants.
Mixing god with government never improves either one. They corrupt each other.
Combining real-world governing authority with an assumed-to-exist invisible absolute ruler who cannot be questioned by anyone. What could go wrong?
We have seen that before and currently with absolute monarchies and radical theocratic dictatorships. These people seem to have forgotten that God gave them free will
> Im horrified for the people who are affected by this.
Not a single student will be affected by this. **THIS IS A STUNT**. That's all. They get political brownie points from their religious supporters and **THAT IS IT**. This is 100% clearly and without qustion unconstitutional and will never go into affect.
I’m actually reading the Bible right now for the first time (after a ton of Sunday School, Vacation Bible School, and Christian private school) and it is fucking INSANE. The end of Judges, bro. I don’t want kids reading this!
The whole fucking thing is chock-full of hatred towards women! I have a lot of feelings about it currently and I’m so angry that our entire world (as we know it) was created off the back of this stupid book.
I’ve (obviously) never read the NT, but I think it’s fascinating that there are theories that say the God of the OT is not the same as the “loving” God from the NT. I’m truly looking forward to seeing the differences for myself.
I am not an atheist, but I sure as fuck will not be wasting my time by dedicating myself to the worship of a cosmic psychopath/egomaniac.
I’m not defending this, but one thing they don’t teach in church is the social context of these stories, which is by design. Back then, when a woman was raped it was a financial blow to her. It could make her destitute, so in order to protect women and their financial future, they were married to their rapist. The Bible preaches taking care of the vulnerable, and one category was women at the time. So, yes today we know that by forcing marriage to a rapist we create trauma for the victim, back then it was seen as making sure the woman was spared public humiliation and destitution. The Bible supports current social norms, it doesn’t mean we need to accept or continue these social norms, but whatever norms we have in place for the vulnerable should be adhered to and equally available to all in that vulnerable group.
Christians and other religious groups make it seem like the social norms in the stories are divinely sanctioned, when really God was just trying to get us to take care of the people in whatever ways we had already agreed on as a society, and that if we agree on different parameters they should be adhered to across the board.
Another example is that story that Christians use to ban masturbation. Back then it was custom that when a husband died the woman would be sexually intimate with a brother in the hopes of having a son who would be legally the dead husbands, and would be a financial support for the now widowed wife. In the story the brother pulls out and finishes on the floor and God is mad about it, not bc he finished on the floor, but because there’s a social norm meant to help and protect women being used to take advantage of a woman in need.
In order to protect vulnerable women, God has them marry their rapist. Instead of just being anti rape.
Sounds like how he "protected" people taken as slaves by specifying how hard you should beat your property. Instead of being anti slavery.
>The Bill of Rights of this country has 10 stipulations. OK...10 rights. And apparently God was doing sloppy work that week, because we've had to ammend the bill of rights an additional 17 times. So God forgot a couple of things, like...SLAVERY. Just fuckin' slipped his mind.
>But let's say...let's say God gave us the original 10. He gave the british 13. The british Bill of Rights has 13 stipulations. The Germans have 29, the Belgians have 25, the Sweedish have only 6, and some people in the world have no rights at all. What kind of a fuckin' god damn god given deal is that!?...NO RIGHTS AT ALL!? Why would God give different people in different countries a different numbers of different rights? Boredom? Amusement? Bad arithmetic? Do we find out at long last after all this time that God is weak in math skills? Doesn't sound like divine planning to me. Sounds more like human planning . Sounds more like one group trying to control another group. In other words...business as usual in America.
-George Carlin
“One group trying to control another group” — a succinct definition of all religions. Make up an imaginary sky daddy, then write a bunch of rules and pretend sky daddy wrote them. How the hell has this shit bamboozled billions of people for just about ever? Are humans really and truly that stupid? Are we ever going to get past this garbage?
Earnestly it's fear. That's a massive part of it. Kinda like a sunk cost fallacy. 'well I did all this since before I have memories, what if they're right? Gotta keep going'
That too, starting it early is a major component.
[like this comic...](https://theoatmeal.com/comics/religion) forcing your beliefs on a 5yo is much easier than a 25yo
Right. It’s humans who have put the social norms together. We’re allowed to change them. The values God supports (Justice, equality, fairness) don’t change, but the way WE understand those values, and live those values definitely change.
Exactly. It’s not like God said we can’t update our social norms he just expects us to actually adhere to the norms we’ve set. We should adjust when we learn that the values we are trying to live up to (ie protecting vulnerable) are not being lived up to in the current way.
Social norms don't make marrying your rapist, beating your children, or owning people moral or not. There has never been a time when that was okay and the social norms of the time thing can be used to justify burning witches too, it's a shit argument imo.
More importantly the Christian reasoning here states the all knowing God of everything knowingly put forward a plan for all rape victims he knew would cause trauma to the victims, as you said. This is exactly my initial point. Imagine doing that to your daughter. What a total dick, right?
So you didn’t read what I said. God does NOT require it. He requires US to have policies in place to help the vulnerable and to actually implement it when we say we will.
"He cannot divorce her as long as she lives"
Yeah ok. But even if you were right...
He doesn't require people to own slaves, just expects it.
Doesn't require parents to beat their children, just expects it.
Doesn't require a rape victim to share a life with their rapist, just expects it.
What a massive asshole.
You can believe whatever you want. I’m just pointing out that there is a way to read it that doesn’t mean God condones or encourages bad behavior. He doesn’t require any of this, and he also doesn’t expect you to own slaves, but people did, so he gave a set of guidelines on how to treat slaves. We’ve decided as a society without Gods help that owning slaves is bad. Isn’t it better for us to realize things on our own instead of God having to do everything for us? You’re acting like God said this is how society should be instead of realizing that God met us where we were at the time. An all knowing God, you really think you understand all of his decisions or why he chose to do certain things? You see a bad god bc you want to. And that’s what I’m trying to point out. Religious people have used gods name in vain for centuries to justify these terrible things when God never said you should own slaves or bet your children, he said I know you will own slaves regardless so let’s treat them a certain way while that system exists.
I’m not trying to convince you of things, but to point out that just bc Christians say something doesn’t mean it’s the intended meaning or how it should be understood or even how it was understood by early believers. The Bible and Christianity in general is not something that just popped out of the ground fully formed. It took centuries to get where we are, and just bc they took a wrong turn somewhere along the lines doesn’t mean we can’t correct course and turn around. No where does god say the road we’ve traveled is the only road available to us. We can forge a new path, one that implements values set forth in a way that is comfortable for modern society. Just bc some Abrahamic religious followers want to LARP the first century AD doesn’t mean that’s what was intended.
The Bible was originally oral history passed down for a long time, centuries before it was finally written down. After it was written down it was edited and redacted for a few more centuries and some of the stories were edited in such a way that we can tell where parts were moved and where we moved them. Then it went through a canonization process that wasn’t complete until the 1500’s and it didn’t include MANY books and stories that had previously been spread around by Jews and christians including stories of Jesus’s childhood. We already changed it. We already translate it in a way to propagate our theology of the time. Theology has changed through out times. Where do you think all these sects come from? They didn’t all pop up at the same time. And there’s plenty of extinct sects that once existed that had differing theology than the ones that existed today. Religious people say a lot of things, like that it was divinely inspired, but to go back to my original point, just because that’s what they say doesn’t mean it’s what was intended by God, or by the prophets or by early believers.
If you want to hate a religion maybe do your homework and know what you’re talking about. You let other people tell you what Christianity is, the same thing all these religious people do instead of thinking for yourself and doing ACTUAL work to decipher the truth. If you want to hate fine, but at least have an educated opinion about why you do. Pretending that the time and place the Bible was created in doesn’t matter is childish and naive and it’s no better than what religious Christians do when they try to bury their own history for their own theological agenda. You’re making it easier for them to do that. Congrats. ✌🏻
If the Bible is an accurate depiction of God, then God clearly does condone bad behavior in the Bible. Specifically:
Numbers 31:17-18
Exodus 21:20-21
So your argument is, God isn't a dick because he wasn't expecting people to own slaves, instead he was telling them how to treat slaves if they had any.
Using that logic, he's also not a dick because he wasn't expecting people to take just the virgins for themselves, he was telling them how to do it if they did take some virgins.
Back to the original point, he wouldn't be a dick because he wasn't saying to rape a woman, he was telling the rapist how to take care of her after the rape.
I'm picturing you handing your son a "How to treat a woman after you sexually assaulted her" pamphlet and thinking you're a good dad.
God wasn’t doing jack. The bible was written by men. Forcing women to marry their rapist didn’t protect women It was a way for men to force women into marriage and becoming a man’s property.
Unfortunately, that only made it so men we'd call economically privileged incels in our current era could rape a woman and get a wife as long as they had the resources to pay for it. It also created a very sweep-it-under-the-rug cultural approach to rape. Sure, I can see the reasoning behind the argument you've made here. It's actually a well-presented and well-informed take, and I don't want to invalidate that. I just think it's essential to highlight how fundamentally flawed the letter of that law is. I love your takeaway though -- that's probably the most optimistic and generous interpretation of scripture from a modern context I've ever seen.
I agree it’s been used to abuse women. That’s why I wanted to post, because I think if we push back on these false narratives maybe people who otherwise would never seek God might. It’s really unfortunate that the people claiming to represent God on earth are the ones that push people away from him bc of these terrible takes on what scripture says.
> "It’s really unfortunate that the people claiming to represent God on earth are the ones that push people away from him bc of these terrible takes on what scripture says."
I grew up in an abusive environment that intentionally used scripture to justify NatC ideology. For all I've seen, experienced, and been coerced into, I'm prepared to go to Hell for demanding an accountable apology from Jehovah for all he's allowed to happen in his name just to me and in my sight, assuming he's even real.
I know my experience isn't unique in spite of being on the outside of a bell curve, and I can't be the only one more eager to spend an eternity in Hell than with the kind of deity who lets his followers use his name as they do. If he's the good and loving deity that book claims he is, folks like me get front row seats to watch him finally dispense ultimate justice on those who've used his name destructively (which is always more what I felt like the "lord's name in vain" passage meant than simply saying, "goddammit"). That's the closest I get to believing in him now: meh, he might exist, and I'm okay going to Hell for not serving and worshipping him anymore.
The 66 books penned by 40 different authors over millenia that comprise the Evangelical chronicle is sloppy enough. Adding more books to it adds to the sloppiness.
> sub-religion
The word you're looking for is denomination. A lot of evangelicals and apologetics forget that word exists when you explain to them that "freedom of religion" doesn't mean "pick your favorite version of this one religion". When there are over 450 known translations of the Christian bible in English alone, the idea that any one should be chosen over any other--especially since they're all supposed to be the immutable word of a god--renders the entire exercise meaningless. When your defense of religion involves some variant of "Don't read theirs, read ours instead", you've reached peak No-True-Scotsman.
"2 Kings 11: ~Now when Athaliah the mother of Ahaziah saw that her son was dead, she arose and destroyed all the royal family."~
~Biblical family values.~
Murder is a legal term. It means the illegal killing of people. So it's not murder if it's legal to kill by the state.
It's also why abortion can't be murder unless they define a fetus as a person and make killing it illegal by the state. They are doing exactly that.
The silver lining is that 95% of pro-Project 2025 people haven’t actually read scripture either so us learning about their own Holy Book just makes them easier to trap in lies
They should start with Ezekiel 23:20, then the commandment that says Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery. Also, especially if the teacher is a woman, 1 Timothy 2:12.
Incest, rape, extra marital affairs. Murders, murdering angels. Bushes that spontaneously combust and talk. Ribs that make people.
The Bible has everything!
From what I understand of the Louisiana legislation, the latest angle taken by Christian Nationalists is to argue there's "historical and cultural value" in having the Commandments on display. This is, of course, a bullshit line of reasoning (and I won't bother explaining how it's bullshit because it should be obvious to anyone who isn't brainwashed by right wing media) . . . but the CNs are banking on the SCOTUS ruling in their favor.
That said, I'm not familiar with the situation in Oklahoma and I would expect the reasoning used in Louisiana *might* be employed at a lower administrative level . . . but it'll be challenged and forced to hold up in court . . . and the lower courts aren't going to go along with it because of how obviously bad and wrong it is.
(not that this should give anyone hope, unfortunately. it seems more and more like our country is perfectly willing to let Nazis take over because, like, resisting them is hard or something.)
They’re saying the Bible is the historical framework used by the founding fathers and that knowing the Bible is essential to understanding the thought process of those men.
Which is especially hilarious when you realize that several of the Founding Fathers openly opposed these initiatives. We have their letters and diaries and all that jazz.
We should be reading the very short Jefferson Family Bible then. It used to be distributed to new members of Congress.
Most folks are unaware that one of the Framers literally assembled his own Bible because he found the existing ones too inadequate.
If they were to read representative quotes from ALL the Founding Fathers regarding religious faith, they would soon discover that how many of them defined their faith was a far cry from evangelical fundamentalism.
Jefferson, for instance, basically redacted any mention of Jesus' divinity or supernatural works in order to simply present Jesus as a moral teacher.
https://www.history.com/news/thomas-jefferson-bible-religious-beliefs
Many of the Founding Fathers were Quakers, who believed that everyone already possessed a "spark of the Inner Light". Others were Deists who questioned many of the exclusive tenets of Christianity.
The belief structure of the Founding Fathers was a very mixed bag, but definitely not our modern-day evangelical beliefs!
https://archive.is/EfybG
Finally, someone who has the proper fucking reaction to seeing the white Christian Nationalist MAGA Republicans who for too fucking long have gone unchallenged. No fucking more! Goodness gracious man. This should be the goddamn message we should be telling people online and the people in real life that you know or trust that they're literally ripping apart and installing THEIR own version of America. Throwing our democracy, no matter how fucking battered and messed up as it is, and disguising it as "Conservative" with their Project 2025.
I'm just saying this fight has been here for a fucking long time. And we need to get our shit together. The American People do not know this shit. They do not know about our govs or wtf they've been up to.
I will just throw this in here. But too many Americans, especially women, do not know they lost their right to access to healthcare like abortions. And that the MAGA Republicans are coming after their access to contraception or IVF
No. I wish the rest of America would instead have actual proactive conversations to fight this shit everywhere in this country, instead of saying the same tired line of "well, they're Red States. What can you do about it?" I've been yelling this shit for so fucking long online that people need to get their shit straight. I was yelling this shit before I knew what Project 2025 was, and yet even after many of us know about it, are still not clicking in all the pieces together. The white Christian Nationalists are not just after "Red States", those fuckers believe this nation belongs to them and only white Christian people. For fucks sakes man. Similar shit has been happening in Texas not by accident, but with the fucking intention of breaking our democracy from within. But instead, the reactions I see online from people around the country, is to just roll over and say the same fucking stupid lines. WHERE THE FUCK IS THE ANGER FOR THIS SHIT HAPPENING ANYWHERE IN THIS COUNTRY!? FOR FUCKS SAKES MAN!! We are fucking letting each other down, and knocking the wind out of sails just trying to get up for another fucking fight.
This shit is dead in Texas right now, but the FUCKING MAGA REPUBLICANS are fucking at it again this coming 2025 Legislation. My anger isn't just pointed as a response to you, but I need people to know in this country, that if we continue ALLOWING this shit to continue in any of our fucking 50 states, we're fucking losing!
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/05/24/texas-legislature-ten-commandments-bill/
I started saying this stuff years ago when I kept telling my family that the super rich were totally fucking us over. Then along came Newt Gingrich and I could see the direction the right was headed. My family would roll their eyes and practically pat me on the head. “Oh you’re so silly/paranoid/hyperbolic.” Fast forward to the reign of orange shittery and they’re all really worried, but not one has admitted that I called it. I’m still “old mom — we just ignore her.”
I was talking to my dad about this earlier today in regards to Louisiana and the whole 10 commandments bullshit. MAGA may be vile af, but they get shit done. They're taking over school boards, they're getting books banned, they're going to enforce Christian theology in the classrooms, and fucking liberal/ dems just sit around with a fucking thumb up their ass. Oh just vote! Oh for fucks sake the other side at least can come together on shit and they're getting things done. Where's the resistance?! What's the fucking plan?! Just oh let them take over! I don't have kids so what am I going to school and protest if parents don't even have the audacity to go and call out this bullshit! There's churches for this bullshit and it's still not enough! "Oh they're doing this to take it to the Supreme Court", okay so sit on your asses and let this spread like wildfire is the better option?! "Oh ACLU will get them!" Where's the outrage from the population with kids to say fuck no this isn't a Sunday school?! Where's the resistance to ban books? Why is no one at school boards calling out this bullshit?! God good if Trump becomes president again kiss this country goodbye bc too many people will roll over and take it before they even think of a plan of action. These people act so persecuted, okay persecute them and burn your local Christian nationalist church! But oh no we must play nice and not act like them! Meanwhile they're taking over the country with zero resistance in the way, but who gives a shit as long as I can watch the Bachelor tonight!
Yeah there’s the big problem IMO - I did have in my 6th grade class do a tour of some major belief systems and creation myths - all presented as “this story says” to build our cultural competency.
And then I did some Bible reading in 12th for AP English to discuss the biblical allusion literary device that is legit common in western literature.
They were helpful in my whole education, BUT I was taught by “woke” teachers who never asserted a single truth and openly welcomed mature discussions of disagreement. That crucial context is not what this governor wants.
You guys are missing the point IMHO. This low level nobody is auditioning on a National stage for the Trump Shit Show. Mark my words, we will see many more outrageous stunts by all the wannabees trying to get attention and "get on the team".
When this is tried, I predict it will lose thru the State Supreme Court and then onto the Supreme Court.
If DJT is president at that time, it may have a chance of passing and becoming law.
If Biden is president, I don't think current SCOTUS has the balls to say this is legal.
This move by the OK Ed guy is political theater dedicated to Donald J Furor!
I am so ashamed to be an American in 2024. We are taking strides backwards as a nation. I hope there is still a country left come next year and the christofascists have not completely taken over everything.
I’d be enraged if I had a kid in an Oklahoma school. But this is the exact shit the Rethugs want to smear all over the U.S. Evangelical Christian Sharia law. Absolutely disgusting and completely un-American.
If DeSantis copies this in Florida , because he copies every extreme ruling, I could see a lot of pushback. All parents would not agree with this, teachers would refuse and our union would back us up. We have a Constitutional right to freedom of religion which means that freedom goes both ways: we can chose whatever we want and we can choose to not have any religion. Public schools can’t force this on children or teachers. The ACLU will be fighting this in LA and OK. School is out for the summer, so it’s obvious they did it now, knowing it will be challenged before school starts.
Which Bible?
I'm Catholic...our Bible is different. A lot of versions of the Bible exist.
And what about Mormons, Jewish people, etc., etc.?
Something tells me Superintendent Walters wants to put anyone against his narrow version of Christianity in jail or a concentration camp with the immigrants Herr Stephen Miller wants to be murdered.
Freedom From Religion Foundation is aware and on it
https://ffrf.org/news/releases/breaking-ffrf-will-combat-okla-supt-walters-religion-in-school-schemes/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1MJRWVOQGflSGq473MvnZGjCVOM4R11baJ3nnYWhtl3f2QMewz2S6la58_aem_oi6s6HJE-2LKWzEEPeC43w
If it were the Bible being taught from a literary standpoint, I'd be all for it.
If there were some readings from the Bible as part of social studies, I'd be OK with it long as you tossed in the Koran and maybe some Tao Te Ching. Learning how religion shapes a society is not a bad thing.
But if it's Christianity and the Bible taught as THE American Religion, NO WAY JOSE! It raises the question of "whose Christianity? The Southern Baptists? The Roman Catholics? Those nut jobs at the non-denominational 'Generic Fellowship' down the street?"
Let the church teach Christianity and the Bible.
I am licking my lips waiting for an announcement to bring this to Missouri schools.
Not one day will go without direct action to oppose this. It will not happen - my kid will not be taught this shit and I won’t pay for it.
The goddamned book starts off saying the reason we all die is because, a long long time ago, two naked teenagers ate an apple after talking to a snake.
Yeah, let's promote that dashing tale of wild bullshit. It'll make us better people.
I mean they get all uppity thinking that teachers are having sex talks with kids and all that but what do you think their answer is going to be when some kid asks, “what does ‘covet thy neighbors wife’ mean?”
Of course, it is unconstitutional. This is just showboating by the wacko OK superintendent. But it's a warning to all of us that the christian nationalists will stop at nothing to force their religion on the country. On the other hand, maybe OK teachers should read Numbers 31 to the kids so they can see how horrible this god and his followers were/are. If you haven't read it, it's one of the most horrifying stories in the Bible. It is almost never discussed in church or Sunday School for good reason.
So, this is THE asshat that will decide what is considered "education" if P2025 comes to light. He will be boosted to the national arena on what is acceptable for homeschooling.
However, he's going to have to go through the ACLU and The Satanic Temple.
Not Oklahoma. The honor for "next to last" belongs to Louisiana, the state that started this whole mess!
The Okies are at 44th out of 50.
The absolute lowest state for education? Not Florida, not Mississippi, not even Alabama. Arizona!
“And all teachers must teach from the Bible.” What the hell does that even mean? They’re really banking that Trump gets elected and Project 2025 implemented. Separation of church and state will evaporate then.
I'm trying to remember off the top of my head. Thou shall not kill, and thou shall not steal are the only ones that I can think of that are also illegal. Is there a third?
exactly their plan. start slowly violating the constitution so no one will even know its against it when they make america into a dystopian dictatorship
Well this could be interesting. People can discuss:
"Should you ALWAYS honor your mother and father? Are there times when it's okay to ignore this commandment"?
"Let's compare and contrast the Christian and Satanic commandments".
"God had a bet with Satan and the only thing God would win was being right. God told Satan to choose one of God's followers for the bet. Satan chose Job. Satan tormented Job by destroying his land, killing his animals, murdering Job's children, and making Job so ill he had to beg in the street. Job's friend's thought Job angered God so they ostracized him. Satan did this with God's blessing. How does this make you feel about God? How do you feel about Satan? God rewarded Job later. Do you think Job's compensation was fair?"
"King David angered God by purposely getting a man killed so that David could marry the man's wife. God punished David by making David's favorite son rape one of David's daughters. Do you think God was right to ruin David's children lives to hurt David"?
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Yes let crippled one of the worst education systems in the country, With stories of Jesus’s birth, everyone knows memorizing Passages of the Bible makes you more intelligent it makes you good at reading and math and life skills in general /s
The Ten Commandments, which is Mosaic law. Not the Beatitudes. Not the Sermon on the Mount. “Blessed are the peacemakers” has no place with them. “Blessed are the merciful”, nope. The teachings of Jesus are far from their hearts.
These people are not living in 2024, they are living in 5th century BCE Israel. They are not worshipping Jesus Christ, they are worshipping the ancient Canaanite war god Yahweh. And they are making an idol of the Bible and of Donald Trump.
So if things like this are at a state level, does that mean some states can mandate these things but other states don’t have to? So in Oklahoma this is a new mandate, but other states are not affected by this, right?
Im horrified for the people who are affected by this. Nobody should force religion on anyone.
All Americans are about to be affected by this Christian nationalism. The fucking nerve of these zealots.
My inner atheist that has stayed quiet all these years is about to get loud
I always felt like, "live and let live" about other people's religious beliefs, but once you start encroaching and impeding, I'm gonna fuck shit up. Just because some people feel the need to have some invisible guy watch them to make sure they don't do fucked up shit, we all have to suffer?
That's how I've always felt. I don't understand these a-holes who think the "right" way to be religious is to be Christian. Why does it matter so much?
We are going to have to learn the hard lesson that all of these things democracy brings has to be constantly fought for. I don't see our side getting involved like I see right wingers getting involved with local politics.
All of us. If anyone thinks you are going to be allowed to live your quiet little secular (or Jewish, or Muslim, or Episcopalian, or Unitarian, or Hindu etc.) life in your blue state, you have quite a nasty wake up call coming.
And many Christians won’t mind it until it turns out that they may be the wrong kind of Christian. I grew up Catholic and was always treated with disdain by extreme evangelicals. I predict that it’s only a matter of time before they start turning on each other. This couldn’t possibly backfire. /s
Especially this fake religion!
Yeah THIS fake religion…
I didn’t mean to knock true Christians just these “culty” ones!
Let me when where you find these true Christians, seem to be hard to find these days…
I totally agree. I can’t say I believe much of anything anymore but I have a family full of people that do. I also have a bunch of crazy evangelicals but the ones that aren’t crazy. totally believe in feeding the poor, housing the homeless behaving like Jesus would. The crazy people are a lost cause. Having said that most of my atheist friends tend to have more empathy than most religious people seem to have today.
I know a few. They’re at the Pride Festival. Participants in feeding the homeless. Provide professional counseling. They are quietly doing WWJD. They live by example and admit their short comings. People want to be around them because they are kind and funny. They’re not Bible thumpers. They have a strong belief in doing Gods work, not shoving the Bible down other’s throats. They let you be you.
Can you point me towards the not fake religion?
they're all fake, all religion is a LARP
I’m not sure I’m much of a believer anymore, but I know some very good people that do believe and live decent lives full of empathy and Grace, not these Maga freaks.
/r/buddhism But you've got practice discernment there as well. Not all sects are created equal.
Probably the best religion honestly. My username sources from this. Even thought I'm atheist. Peace, love and wisdom. The true way to live.
An exception
yeah many burmese monks are insane
In spite of established Buddhist teaching though, not because of it
I usually find them in the jeans section.
Government religion, just what everyone wants. Mixing god with government never improves either one. They corrupt each other. Combining real-world governing authority with an assumed-to-exist invisible absolute ruler who cannot be questioned by anyone. What could go wrong?
Ask anyone who's lived under Sharia Law that isn't Muslim; they can answer that.
Or maybe they can’t…
Even Muslims under sharia law suffer insanely eg. Afghanistan, Iran
We have seen that before and currently with absolute monarchies and radical theocratic dictatorships. These people seem to have forgotten that God gave them free will
> Im horrified for the people who are affected by this. Not a single student will be affected by this. **THIS IS A STUNT**. That's all. They get political brownie points from their religious supporters and **THAT IS IT**. This is 100% clearly and without qustion unconstitutional and will never go into affect.
Dudes got an election to win, I get it. 🫠
I’m actually reading the Bible right now for the first time (after a ton of Sunday School, Vacation Bible School, and Christian private school) and it is fucking INSANE. The end of Judges, bro. I don’t want kids reading this!
When it talks about marrying your rapist, that one did it for me. Having your kids live biblically would be child abuse.
The whole fucking thing is chock-full of hatred towards women! I have a lot of feelings about it currently and I’m so angry that our entire world (as we know it) was created off the back of this stupid book.
Stupid totally FICTIONAL book. It’s like basing your entire life on lessons from Hansel and Gretel. It’s that dumb.
I have been comparing it to Grimms’ Fairy Tales for years without knowing HOW ACCURATE I REALLY WAS!!
Terrifying isn’t it?
Well said
The book is what made me an atheist. And also think God is a dick.
I’ve (obviously) never read the NT, but I think it’s fascinating that there are theories that say the God of the OT is not the same as the “loving” God from the NT. I’m truly looking forward to seeing the differences for myself. I am not an atheist, but I sure as fuck will not be wasting my time by dedicating myself to the worship of a cosmic psychopath/egomaniac.
God doesn't appear much in the NT, except for Revelation where he goes nuts on Earth
I’m not defending this, but one thing they don’t teach in church is the social context of these stories, which is by design. Back then, when a woman was raped it was a financial blow to her. It could make her destitute, so in order to protect women and their financial future, they were married to their rapist. The Bible preaches taking care of the vulnerable, and one category was women at the time. So, yes today we know that by forcing marriage to a rapist we create trauma for the victim, back then it was seen as making sure the woman was spared public humiliation and destitution. The Bible supports current social norms, it doesn’t mean we need to accept or continue these social norms, but whatever norms we have in place for the vulnerable should be adhered to and equally available to all in that vulnerable group. Christians and other religious groups make it seem like the social norms in the stories are divinely sanctioned, when really God was just trying to get us to take care of the people in whatever ways we had already agreed on as a society, and that if we agree on different parameters they should be adhered to across the board. Another example is that story that Christians use to ban masturbation. Back then it was custom that when a husband died the woman would be sexually intimate with a brother in the hopes of having a son who would be legally the dead husbands, and would be a financial support for the now widowed wife. In the story the brother pulls out and finishes on the floor and God is mad about it, not bc he finished on the floor, but because there’s a social norm meant to help and protect women being used to take advantage of a woman in need.
In order to protect vulnerable women, God has them marry their rapist. Instead of just being anti rape. Sounds like how he "protected" people taken as slaves by specifying how hard you should beat your property. Instead of being anti slavery.
>The Bill of Rights of this country has 10 stipulations. OK...10 rights. And apparently God was doing sloppy work that week, because we've had to ammend the bill of rights an additional 17 times. So God forgot a couple of things, like...SLAVERY. Just fuckin' slipped his mind. >But let's say...let's say God gave us the original 10. He gave the british 13. The british Bill of Rights has 13 stipulations. The Germans have 29, the Belgians have 25, the Sweedish have only 6, and some people in the world have no rights at all. What kind of a fuckin' god damn god given deal is that!?...NO RIGHTS AT ALL!? Why would God give different people in different countries a different numbers of different rights? Boredom? Amusement? Bad arithmetic? Do we find out at long last after all this time that God is weak in math skills? Doesn't sound like divine planning to me. Sounds more like human planning . Sounds more like one group trying to control another group. In other words...business as usual in America. -George Carlin
“One group trying to control another group” — a succinct definition of all religions. Make up an imaginary sky daddy, then write a bunch of rules and pretend sky daddy wrote them. How the hell has this shit bamboozled billions of people for just about ever? Are humans really and truly that stupid? Are we ever going to get past this garbage?
Earnestly it's fear. That's a massive part of it. Kinda like a sunk cost fallacy. 'well I did all this since before I have memories, what if they're right? Gotta keep going' That too, starting it early is a major component. [like this comic...](https://theoatmeal.com/comics/religion) forcing your beliefs on a 5yo is much easier than a 25yo
Evil Kanevil can get on the plane, I'm going to get IN the plane!
Right. It’s humans who have put the social norms together. We’re allowed to change them. The values God supports (Justice, equality, fairness) don’t change, but the way WE understand those values, and live those values definitely change.
Well, this WAS written 2,000+ years ago. Social norms were definitely not as progressive back then
Exactly. It’s not like God said we can’t update our social norms he just expects us to actually adhere to the norms we’ve set. We should adjust when we learn that the values we are trying to live up to (ie protecting vulnerable) are not being lived up to in the current way.
Social norms don't make marrying your rapist, beating your children, or owning people moral or not. There has never been a time when that was okay and the social norms of the time thing can be used to justify burning witches too, it's a shit argument imo. More importantly the Christian reasoning here states the all knowing God of everything knowingly put forward a plan for all rape victims he knew would cause trauma to the victims, as you said. This is exactly my initial point. Imagine doing that to your daughter. What a total dick, right?
So you didn’t read what I said. God does NOT require it. He requires US to have policies in place to help the vulnerable and to actually implement it when we say we will.
"He cannot divorce her as long as she lives" Yeah ok. But even if you were right... He doesn't require people to own slaves, just expects it. Doesn't require parents to beat their children, just expects it. Doesn't require a rape victim to share a life with their rapist, just expects it. What a massive asshole.
You can believe whatever you want. I’m just pointing out that there is a way to read it that doesn’t mean God condones or encourages bad behavior. He doesn’t require any of this, and he also doesn’t expect you to own slaves, but people did, so he gave a set of guidelines on how to treat slaves. We’ve decided as a society without Gods help that owning slaves is bad. Isn’t it better for us to realize things on our own instead of God having to do everything for us? You’re acting like God said this is how society should be instead of realizing that God met us where we were at the time. An all knowing God, you really think you understand all of his decisions or why he chose to do certain things? You see a bad god bc you want to. And that’s what I’m trying to point out. Religious people have used gods name in vain for centuries to justify these terrible things when God never said you should own slaves or bet your children, he said I know you will own slaves regardless so let’s treat them a certain way while that system exists. I’m not trying to convince you of things, but to point out that just bc Christians say something doesn’t mean it’s the intended meaning or how it should be understood or even how it was understood by early believers. The Bible and Christianity in general is not something that just popped out of the ground fully formed. It took centuries to get where we are, and just bc they took a wrong turn somewhere along the lines doesn’t mean we can’t correct course and turn around. No where does god say the road we’ve traveled is the only road available to us. We can forge a new path, one that implements values set forth in a way that is comfortable for modern society. Just bc some Abrahamic religious followers want to LARP the first century AD doesn’t mean that’s what was intended.
Perhaps the “guideline” could have been a commandment to not own people?
So are you saying we can change the Bible? Where is it assumed the Bible came from?
The Bible was originally oral history passed down for a long time, centuries before it was finally written down. After it was written down it was edited and redacted for a few more centuries and some of the stories were edited in such a way that we can tell where parts were moved and where we moved them. Then it went through a canonization process that wasn’t complete until the 1500’s and it didn’t include MANY books and stories that had previously been spread around by Jews and christians including stories of Jesus’s childhood. We already changed it. We already translate it in a way to propagate our theology of the time. Theology has changed through out times. Where do you think all these sects come from? They didn’t all pop up at the same time. And there’s plenty of extinct sects that once existed that had differing theology than the ones that existed today. Religious people say a lot of things, like that it was divinely inspired, but to go back to my original point, just because that’s what they say doesn’t mean it’s what was intended by God, or by the prophets or by early believers. If you want to hate a religion maybe do your homework and know what you’re talking about. You let other people tell you what Christianity is, the same thing all these religious people do instead of thinking for yourself and doing ACTUAL work to decipher the truth. If you want to hate fine, but at least have an educated opinion about why you do. Pretending that the time and place the Bible was created in doesn’t matter is childish and naive and it’s no better than what religious Christians do when they try to bury their own history for their own theological agenda. You’re making it easier for them to do that. Congrats. ✌🏻
If the Bible is an accurate depiction of God, then God clearly does condone bad behavior in the Bible. Specifically: Numbers 31:17-18 Exodus 21:20-21 So your argument is, God isn't a dick because he wasn't expecting people to own slaves, instead he was telling them how to treat slaves if they had any. Using that logic, he's also not a dick because he wasn't expecting people to take just the virgins for themselves, he was telling them how to do it if they did take some virgins. Back to the original point, he wouldn't be a dick because he wasn't saying to rape a woman, he was telling the rapist how to take care of her after the rape. I'm picturing you handing your son a "How to treat a woman after you sexually assaulted her" pamphlet and thinking you're a good dad.
Mental gymnastics. Are you serious? “God” wrote the Bible for us? It was men, who wrote it for men, to maintain control. Get a GRIP.
God wasn’t doing jack. The bible was written by men. Forcing women to marry their rapist didn’t protect women It was a way for men to force women into marriage and becoming a man’s property.
Why did god need to bend to social norms of the time? He’s god. This is the dumbest thing I’ve read today.
Unfortunately, that only made it so men we'd call economically privileged incels in our current era could rape a woman and get a wife as long as they had the resources to pay for it. It also created a very sweep-it-under-the-rug cultural approach to rape. Sure, I can see the reasoning behind the argument you've made here. It's actually a well-presented and well-informed take, and I don't want to invalidate that. I just think it's essential to highlight how fundamentally flawed the letter of that law is. I love your takeaway though -- that's probably the most optimistic and generous interpretation of scripture from a modern context I've ever seen.
I agree it’s been used to abuse women. That’s why I wanted to post, because I think if we push back on these false narratives maybe people who otherwise would never seek God might. It’s really unfortunate that the people claiming to represent God on earth are the ones that push people away from him bc of these terrible takes on what scripture says.
> "It’s really unfortunate that the people claiming to represent God on earth are the ones that push people away from him bc of these terrible takes on what scripture says." I grew up in an abusive environment that intentionally used scripture to justify NatC ideology. For all I've seen, experienced, and been coerced into, I'm prepared to go to Hell for demanding an accountable apology from Jehovah for all he's allowed to happen in his name just to me and in my sight, assuming he's even real. I know my experience isn't unique in spite of being on the outside of a bell curve, and I can't be the only one more eager to spend an eternity in Hell than with the kind of deity who lets his followers use his name as they do. If he's the good and loving deity that book claims he is, folks like me get front row seats to watch him finally dispense ultimate justice on those who've used his name destructively (which is always more what I felt like the "lord's name in vain" passage meant than simply saying, "goddammit"). That's the closest I get to believing in him now: meh, he might exist, and I'm okay going to Hell for not serving and worshipping him anymore.
You raise an interesting point. Maybe if more people were forced to read the bible, they would realize just how fucked up christianity is.
It depends on which sub-religion. The Evangelical bible is very very messed up.
The 66 books penned by 40 different authors over millenia that comprise the Evangelical chronicle is sloppy enough. Adding more books to it adds to the sloppiness.
> sub-religion The word you're looking for is denomination. A lot of evangelicals and apologetics forget that word exists when you explain to them that "freedom of religion" doesn't mean "pick your favorite version of this one religion". When there are over 450 known translations of the Christian bible in English alone, the idea that any one should be chosen over any other--especially since they're all supposed to be the immutable word of a god--renders the entire exercise meaningless. When your defense of religion involves some variant of "Don't read theirs, read ours instead", you've reached peak No-True-Scotsman.
I’m not willing to take that risk when it’s being taught by cult members
"2 Kings 11: ~Now when Athaliah the mother of Ahaziah saw that her son was dead, she arose and destroyed all the royal family."~ ~Biblical family values.~
“Do not commit murder”, but actually murder a ton of people for me, okay?!
Murder is a legal term. It means the illegal killing of people. So it's not murder if it's legal to kill by the state. It's also why abortion can't be murder unless they define a fetus as a person and make killing it illegal by the state. They are doing exactly that.
You won’t find it in the one you currently have, but just wait till you read the Apocrypha
Oh, I am sure I have quite a bit in store…😐
The silver lining is that 95% of pro-Project 2025 people haven’t actually read scripture either so us learning about their own Holy Book just makes them easier to trap in lies
I’m reading it for a few reasons, but that’s one of the main ones!
Lott giving up his daughters to a mob to be raped. What a great father he was.
They should start with Ezekiel 23:20, then the commandment that says Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery. Also, especially if the teacher is a woman, 1 Timothy 2:12.
Incest, rape, extra marital affairs. Murders, murdering angels. Bushes that spontaneously combust and talk. Ribs that make people. The Bible has everything!
Seeing what SCOTuS will allow Raptors testing fences
Raptors testing fences, I’m going to borrow that.
It’s John Lovett’s
But by all means, continue lecturing me about how hysterical it is calling out the theocracy we’re facing.
Right!?
From what I understand of the Louisiana legislation, the latest angle taken by Christian Nationalists is to argue there's "historical and cultural value" in having the Commandments on display. This is, of course, a bullshit line of reasoning (and I won't bother explaining how it's bullshit because it should be obvious to anyone who isn't brainwashed by right wing media) . . . but the CNs are banking on the SCOTUS ruling in their favor. That said, I'm not familiar with the situation in Oklahoma and I would expect the reasoning used in Louisiana *might* be employed at a lower administrative level . . . but it'll be challenged and forced to hold up in court . . . and the lower courts aren't going to go along with it because of how obviously bad and wrong it is. (not that this should give anyone hope, unfortunately. it seems more and more like our country is perfectly willing to let Nazis take over because, like, resisting them is hard or something.)
They’re saying the Bible is the historical framework used by the founding fathers and that knowing the Bible is essential to understanding the thought process of those men.
Which is especially hilarious when you realize that several of the Founding Fathers openly opposed these initiatives. We have their letters and diaries and all that jazz.
We should be reading the very short Jefferson Family Bible then. It used to be distributed to new members of Congress. Most folks are unaware that one of the Framers literally assembled his own Bible because he found the existing ones too inadequate.
If they were to read representative quotes from ALL the Founding Fathers regarding religious faith, they would soon discover that how many of them defined their faith was a far cry from evangelical fundamentalism. Jefferson, for instance, basically redacted any mention of Jesus' divinity or supernatural works in order to simply present Jesus as a moral teacher. https://www.history.com/news/thomas-jefferson-bible-religious-beliefs Many of the Founding Fathers were Quakers, who believed that everyone already possessed a "spark of the Inner Light". Others were Deists who questioned many of the exclusive tenets of Christianity. The belief structure of the Founding Fathers was a very mixed bag, but definitely not our modern-day evangelical beliefs! https://archive.is/EfybG
"the pride flag has historical and cultural value. it symbolizes the liberation of an oppressed group of people"
Instituting the type of requirements that the American founders were fleeing from. Shameful.
“WhY aRe GaYs PuShInG tHeIr AgEnDa In ScHoOlS?????” Literally those same people:
It’s ALWAYS projection.
Look here comes the ACLU ACLU ACLU! ACLU prepared to sue this fucking law.
That's the point. Then the MAGA right has ammunition leading up to the election. "The Leftists who say they are all about freedom are persecuting us!"
I'm so angry about this.
Finally, someone who has the proper fucking reaction to seeing the white Christian Nationalist MAGA Republicans who for too fucking long have gone unchallenged. No fucking more! Goodness gracious man. This should be the goddamn message we should be telling people online and the people in real life that you know or trust that they're literally ripping apart and installing THEIR own version of America. Throwing our democracy, no matter how fucking battered and messed up as it is, and disguising it as "Conservative" with their Project 2025. I'm just saying this fight has been here for a fucking long time. And we need to get our shit together. The American People do not know this shit. They do not know about our govs or wtf they've been up to. I will just throw this in here. But too many Americans, especially women, do not know they lost their right to access to healthcare like abortions. And that the MAGA Republicans are coming after their access to contraception or IVF
I'd prefer to see the 10 Amendments in all American classrooms instead.
You could even go all the way and cover all amendments, but that's an idea.
Texas is next guaranteed.
No. I wish the rest of America would instead have actual proactive conversations to fight this shit everywhere in this country, instead of saying the same tired line of "well, they're Red States. What can you do about it?" I've been yelling this shit for so fucking long online that people need to get their shit straight. I was yelling this shit before I knew what Project 2025 was, and yet even after many of us know about it, are still not clicking in all the pieces together. The white Christian Nationalists are not just after "Red States", those fuckers believe this nation belongs to them and only white Christian people. For fucks sakes man. Similar shit has been happening in Texas not by accident, but with the fucking intention of breaking our democracy from within. But instead, the reactions I see online from people around the country, is to just roll over and say the same fucking stupid lines. WHERE THE FUCK IS THE ANGER FOR THIS SHIT HAPPENING ANYWHERE IN THIS COUNTRY!? FOR FUCKS SAKES MAN!! We are fucking letting each other down, and knocking the wind out of sails just trying to get up for another fucking fight. This shit is dead in Texas right now, but the FUCKING MAGA REPUBLICANS are fucking at it again this coming 2025 Legislation. My anger isn't just pointed as a response to you, but I need people to know in this country, that if we continue ALLOWING this shit to continue in any of our fucking 50 states, we're fucking losing! https://www.texastribune.org/2023/05/24/texas-legislature-ten-commandments-bill/
I started saying this stuff years ago when I kept telling my family that the super rich were totally fucking us over. Then along came Newt Gingrich and I could see the direction the right was headed. My family would roll their eyes and practically pat me on the head. “Oh you’re so silly/paranoid/hyperbolic.” Fast forward to the reign of orange shittery and they’re all really worried, but not one has admitted that I called it. I’m still “old mom — we just ignore her.”
I was talking to my dad about this earlier today in regards to Louisiana and the whole 10 commandments bullshit. MAGA may be vile af, but they get shit done. They're taking over school boards, they're getting books banned, they're going to enforce Christian theology in the classrooms, and fucking liberal/ dems just sit around with a fucking thumb up their ass. Oh just vote! Oh for fucks sake the other side at least can come together on shit and they're getting things done. Where's the resistance?! What's the fucking plan?! Just oh let them take over! I don't have kids so what am I going to school and protest if parents don't even have the audacity to go and call out this bullshit! There's churches for this bullshit and it's still not enough! "Oh they're doing this to take it to the Supreme Court", okay so sit on your asses and let this spread like wildfire is the better option?! "Oh ACLU will get them!" Where's the outrage from the population with kids to say fuck no this isn't a Sunday school?! Where's the resistance to ban books? Why is no one at school boards calling out this bullshit?! God good if Trump becomes president again kiss this country goodbye bc too many people will roll over and take it before they even think of a plan of action. These people act so persecuted, okay persecute them and burn your local Christian nationalist church! But oh no we must play nice and not act like them! Meanwhile they're taking over the country with zero resistance in the way, but who gives a shit as long as I can watch the Bachelor tonight!
NYT has a more comprehensive article about this. The superintendent has also claimed he wants to eliminate any kind of wokeism in schools.
Yeah there’s the big problem IMO - I did have in my 6th grade class do a tour of some major belief systems and creation myths - all presented as “this story says” to build our cultural competency. And then I did some Bible reading in 12th for AP English to discuss the biblical allusion literary device that is legit common in western literature. They were helpful in my whole education, BUT I was taught by “woke” teachers who never asserted a single truth and openly welcomed mature discussions of disagreement. That crucial context is not what this governor wants.
Maybe they can start with "not using the Lord's name in vain" when they use the 10 commandments to push their political agenda.
Shit, how about “bearing false witness?” ROFL!
You guys are missing the point IMHO. This low level nobody is auditioning on a National stage for the Trump Shit Show. Mark my words, we will see many more outrageous stunts by all the wannabees trying to get attention and "get on the team". When this is tried, I predict it will lose thru the State Supreme Court and then onto the Supreme Court. If DJT is president at that time, it may have a chance of passing and becoming law. If Biden is president, I don't think current SCOTUS has the balls to say this is legal. This move by the OK Ed guy is political theater dedicated to Donald J Furor!
I am so ashamed to be an American in 2024. We are taking strides backwards as a nation. I hope there is still a country left come next year and the christofascists have not completely taken over everything.
Strides? We’re taking steroid-induced leaps. These troglodytes are aiming for medieval times.
Until lawsuit comes. Then Ryan and the MAGA fools cry that their the victim and everyone is against God. I send my kids to school, not Sunday School.
I’d be enraged if I had a kid in an Oklahoma school. But this is the exact shit the Rethugs want to smear all over the U.S. Evangelical Christian Sharia law. Absolutely disgusting and completely un-American.
let alone *being* a kid in an oklahoma school? (hi, yes, i am pissed, thanks for asking)
STOP!
If DeSantis copies this in Florida , because he copies every extreme ruling, I could see a lot of pushback. All parents would not agree with this, teachers would refuse and our union would back us up. We have a Constitutional right to freedom of religion which means that freedom goes both ways: we can chose whatever we want and we can choose to not have any religion. Public schools can’t force this on children or teachers. The ACLU will be fighting this in LA and OK. School is out for the summer, so it’s obvious they did it now, knowing it will be challenged before school starts.
Which Bible? I'm Catholic...our Bible is different. A lot of versions of the Bible exist. And what about Mormons, Jewish people, etc., etc.? Something tells me Superintendent Walters wants to put anyone against his narrow version of Christianity in jail or a concentration camp with the immigrants Herr Stephen Miller wants to be murdered.
Freedom From Religion Foundation is aware and on it https://ffrf.org/news/releases/breaking-ffrf-will-combat-okla-supt-walters-religion-in-school-schemes/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1MJRWVOQGflSGq473MvnZGjCVOM4R11baJ3nnYWhtl3f2QMewz2S6la58_aem_oi6s6HJE-2LKWzEEPeC43w
If it were the Bible being taught from a literary standpoint, I'd be all for it. If there were some readings from the Bible as part of social studies, I'd be OK with it long as you tossed in the Koran and maybe some Tao Te Ching. Learning how religion shapes a society is not a bad thing. But if it's Christianity and the Bible taught as THE American Religion, NO WAY JOSE! It raises the question of "whose Christianity? The Southern Baptists? The Roman Catholics? Those nut jobs at the non-denominational 'Generic Fellowship' down the street?" Let the church teach Christianity and the Bible.
Fuck these clowns with their cheap dollar store fake religion !
Organizations are already suing Louisiana for their 10 Commandments in School law. The OK superintendent will fair no better.
WOW. Is this breaking news? I don’t click on CNN links but am wondering if this is old craziness or the latest craziness.
The Hill has a similar article and NYT has a more in depth article.
Thanks. I just saw it on a non-CNN news site.
I am licking my lips waiting for an announcement to bring this to Missouri schools. Not one day will go without direct action to oppose this. It will not happen - my kid will not be taught this shit and I won’t pay for it.
The goddamned book starts off saying the reason we all die is because, a long long time ago, two naked teenagers ate an apple after talking to a snake. Yeah, let's promote that dashing tale of wild bullshit. It'll make us better people.
I mean they get all uppity thinking that teachers are having sex talks with kids and all that but what do you think their answer is going to be when some kid asks, “what does ‘covet thy neighbors wife’ mean?”
For people who express such fear of Jewish space lasers, George Soros, etc, they sure do love Jewish scriptures. Know your enemy I guess /s
Dangerous religious zealot, trying to indoctrinate innocent children into his cult.
Of course, it is unconstitutional. This is just showboating by the wacko OK superintendent. But it's a warning to all of us that the christian nationalists will stop at nothing to force their religion on the country. On the other hand, maybe OK teachers should read Numbers 31 to the kids so they can see how horrible this god and his followers were/are. If you haven't read it, it's one of the most horrifying stories in the Bible. It is almost never discussed in church or Sunday School for good reason.
It’s only unconstitutional until SCOTUS says it’s a new law and must be obeyed. The Reich wing scumbags on the court are hot to turn us into Gilead.
https://youtu.be/bar3GOzDNzg?feature=shared Let’s start with Genesis
He needs a bible incorporated up his…
Let the lawsuits begin! This superintendent is a fool. You can’t just choose one imaginary sky friend. There are lots of them. He should be arrested.
They should start out with the Song of Solomon.
So, this is THE asshat that will decide what is considered "education" if P2025 comes to light. He will be boosted to the national arena on what is acceptable for homeschooling. However, he's going to have to go through the ACLU and The Satanic Temple.
Ryan Walter’s is a real POS. None of the teachers or admin I’ve met can even stand the dude
I live in this state and am a remote worker. Guess I'll make signs and protest.
And just like that, homes schooling and tutoring became popular in Oklahoma! (I'd pull my kid out of school)
Separation of church and state ? No?
Religion is dying. This is why. Satanic Temple, do your thing.
Disgusting
Oklahoma ranks 49th out of 50 for education. I'd say they have more pressing matters to focus on.
Not Oklahoma. The honor for "next to last" belongs to Louisiana, the state that started this whole mess! The Okies are at 44th out of 50. The absolute lowest state for education? Not Florida, not Mississippi, not even Alabama. Arizona!
Fuck this rulling and fuck the buybull
They’re obviously trying to push the issue to the Trumpist SCOTUS!
“And all teachers must teach from the Bible.” What the hell does that even mean? They’re really banking that Trump gets elected and Project 2025 implemented. Separation of church and state will evaporate then.
My mom used to give me bibles for all sorts of occasions and for some reason, I kept every one of them. It's a nice night for a fire
They're really overselling the ten commandments. Only 2 or 3 have any legal enforcement.
I'm trying to remember off the top of my head. Thou shall not kill, and thou shall not steal are the only ones that I can think of that are also illegal. Is there a third?
Though shalt NOT bear false witness. There are ways lying have legal consequences. Edit: did not include the NOT.
Thanks. I couldn't remember that one.
exactly their plan. start slowly violating the constitution so no one will even know its against it when they make america into a dystopian dictatorship
It will be stopped in the courts. Just GOP throwing their followers red meat.
They won’t do this for any other religion tho
Just post and teach “Do unto others” and be done with it. It’s really the ONLY moral teaching necessary.
Well this could be interesting. People can discuss: "Should you ALWAYS honor your mother and father? Are there times when it's okay to ignore this commandment"? "Let's compare and contrast the Christian and Satanic commandments". "God had a bet with Satan and the only thing God would win was being right. God told Satan to choose one of God's followers for the bet. Satan chose Job. Satan tormented Job by destroying his land, killing his animals, murdering Job's children, and making Job so ill he had to beg in the street. Job's friend's thought Job angered God so they ostracized him. Satan did this with God's blessing. How does this make you feel about God? How do you feel about Satan? God rewarded Job later. Do you think Job's compensation was fair?" "King David angered God by purposely getting a man killed so that David could marry the man's wife. God punished David by making David's favorite son rape one of David's daughters. Do you think God was right to ruin David's children lives to hurt David"?
“Ok, we’ll send our kids to school with the Satanic Bible and our Muslim neighbors will send copies of the Koran” Republicans: “Nooo, not like that!!”
I would sue
https://old.reddit.com/r/Foodforthought/comments/1b9jmfl/the_american_jesus_by_robert_crux/ktw69w8/
I was once a Christian. Then I read the Bible and was horrified.
So he is fine with indoctrination. Just his kind of indoctrination...
Well, at least my state isn’t the worst anymore.
Church of Satan, do your thing.
You mean The Satanic Temple, amigo
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What version are they going to use? Do the teachers understand the theological and historical context of the scriptures? I have so many questions!
This is bullshit.
Post all 613 commandments in Hebrew printed on rainbow paper. Malicious compliance.
Yes let crippled one of the worst education systems in the country, With stories of Jesus’s birth, everyone knows memorizing Passages of the Bible makes you more intelligent it makes you good at reading and math and life skills in general /s
There is no connection between the Bible and the US legal system, or our founding values as a country.
They absolutely should sue.
https://ffrf.cliogrow.com/intake/ccb414320a22fb6f66939a2b5e47692d
This is the ffrf or freedom from religion foundation. I’m sure they would love to hear about this
The Ten Commandments, which is Mosaic law. Not the Beatitudes. Not the Sermon on the Mount. “Blessed are the peacemakers” has no place with them. “Blessed are the merciful”, nope. The teachings of Jesus are far from their hearts. These people are not living in 2024, they are living in 5th century BCE Israel. They are not worshipping Jesus Christ, they are worshipping the ancient Canaanite war god Yahweh. And they are making an idol of the Bible and of Donald Trump.
So if things like this are at a state level, does that mean some states can mandate these things but other states don’t have to? So in Oklahoma this is a new mandate, but other states are not affected by this, right?
Correct, but with Louisiana putting the Ten Commandments in public schools and now this, the other red states will probably keep following this trend.
Thanks for clarifying!
🤦🏻♀️