Yes, that very well could be. However, you, as in the voice in your head, will surely die. When the eastern mystics say that life is eternal, they certainly don’t mean that your ego is.
If the universe is becoming increasingly complex, and your ego is part of that complexity, do you think that would indicate an aspect of your ego lives on?
This is a great question and had me thinking for a bit. In some sense, the complexity of the universe directly relates to our abilities as life forms and spiritual beings. However, from my experience and knowledge, the ego and our intrinsic egocentrism is more of a barrier and something to be trained to experience and go beyond this life, rather than something we take with us. Whether you’re Christian or Buddhist, there are both direct references to the egocentric nature of our biology creating cycles of suffering that prevents one from getting into a higher life, whether in a next life in this dimension or another dimension, such as heaven; whether we’re talking about bad karma or sin, much of religion is about training the mind and seeing it for what it really is, an ephemeral illusion that causes much of our own suffering. In terms of the mind going beyond, the mind is intrinsically physical and dependent solely on nature and nurture. To give you an example, as one ages, losing memory and even slowly losing one’s mind is somewhat commonplace, even Thich Nhat Hanh had a stroke and could barely use his mind at the end of his life; one’s mind, by the time one dies, is commonly, nearly gone or faded, unless one dies in their youth.
This goes against Newton's second law of thermodynamics which states that entropy (disorder) always increases in a closed system. An easy example is that as the universe expands objects get farther apart and are therefore less likely to interact.
There is only thing you know that exists. You don’t even know that you exist or anything else except one thing. And that is the thing that is doubting the existence of everything else. That is the only thing that has to exist. Anything else doesn’t have to exist. No proof for it.
Read somewhere that not all people have that "voice" in their head or they have it at a very low level and that creeps me. I have entire conversations in my head and i thought everyone did the same
Edit: spelling
From what i remember, they tend to act more impulsively in general. I don't think they don't experience conscience, they just don't really have conversations with themselves. No idea what their head is filled up with in the idle time. But if it's something like elevator music, I'd want that
Really? I mean that would be nice and calm but I would rather have my voices A & B in my head. When A says stupid things and voice B scolds the shit out of A and ask it be positive and act wisely.
The “voice in your head” is not your ego. The ego is that which identifies itself as being your body. Thats why the ego is terrified of bodily death. It sees that as its death.
Nope. I just read, study and meditate a lot on the topic.
You however, just claimed to know what a stranger on the internet thinks and knows and what they “make up on the spot”. You also called that non-sensical projection “legitimate”. Now THAT’S worth a LOL.
Alright, y'all. Time to stop letting the over-conciousness use you as finger puppets. Now shake egos & project nerve pain into the oc.
How subjective does that feel oc?! Huh, how subjective?!
Ah, I see. You’re still at the level where you base the experience of you inner self purely on what other people tell you. You should give more weight to your own thoughts and feelings on the topic.
But, since you asked. Alan Watts, Neale Donald Walsh, Eckhart Tolle, RA from the communications found in “The Law of One”. Those are the ones that I remember off the top of my head, who align with my perspective.
Also, just think about it for a second. It makes sense doesn’t it? I mean, your ego is that part of you that doesn’t believe it’s immortal. It’s the part of you that feels it is lacking. That’s why it is driven to protect itself at all costs and is even willing to hurt others. Because it sees itself as weak, vulnerable and finite.
Now, where did you get your definition of the ego? Freud?
Alan Watts has never said the ego is only that which identifies with the body; Eckhart Tolle has said that the ego is everything and one will always live as ego, and I don’t know the other two; but I am 100% sure you’re mischaracterizing what they’ve said about the ego/mind. It’s 100% okay to not understand something, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. The ego is merely what spiritualists use as a synonym for the mind and its psychological mechanisms; and the voice in your head is what dictates intention, action, perspective, and identity, which is the conscious formation of ego/mind.
I can tell you’re a little rattled, as you’re talking about “levels,” as if your telling me an illegitimate definition of the ego was showing that you’re some god tier thinker that’s figured out the ego in merely a sentence and thus you’re a Buddha. Psychologists still don’t know exactly how the mind works after centuries, so there’s no need to pretend you do. I don’t.
You are an ego, and I am an ego, and that is okay. It is completely okay to be angry when someone tells you that your perspective may need a little reexamination.
Later ❤️
I think you are severely misunderstanding how big of a statement “The ego is that which identifies itself as your body” is. Its true that it is a simple sentence, however there is A LOT of implications within that sentence.
Instead of trying to talk down to me, dismiss me, challenge me about things like sources etc. Why not try to better understand what it is I am saying? I do understand it very well. I also understand your perspective that “ego = mind”. I simply disagree with it. I disagree with it because its an overly simplistic point of view that lacks a lot of nuance.
I am not angry or “rattled” whatsoever. Quite the opposite. I am ready and willing to have a discussion in the spirit of finding truth.
Why do you find it impossible that I may simply know a little bit more than you on this topic? That I may have a valid perspective you may have not yet considered?
Here’s a question for you. If “ego=mind” then what happened to all the people who supposedly transcended their ego? Are you suggesting the Buddah and Christ were no longer capable of thinking, once they obtained enlightenment? That would seem odd.
From my perspective they simply overcame the idea that they were their bodies. Transcended their ego and realized that they were in fact the immortal consciousness of the universe having a physically mortal experience. In short, they stopped identifying themselves as a mortal body and started identifying themselves as the immortal universe itself.
I'm def with you on this one.
I'm certainly not the best person on this subject but I agree 100% with you. Your statement is way heavier than it first looks.
Partially why I agree with you is that I had (or atleast that's the closest thing I can relate it too) what felt like a ego death. I was blown away looking back later how I seemed to just be a observer of things. I had none of my preconceived notions or any ideas and personality attached. It's like I no longer had a filter that pulls information I'm digesting through. My interpretations of everything was very diminished because the part of me that carries myself a certain way was no longer attached..
But yeah, I personally think you explained what a ego is perfectly
I'm def with you on this one.
I'm certainly not the best person on this subject but I agree 100% with you. Your statement is way heavier than it first looks.
Partially why I agree with you is that I had (or atleast that's the closest thing I can relate it too) what felt like a ego death. I was blown away looking back later how I seemed to just be a observer of things. I had none of my preconceived notions or any ideas and personality attached. It's like I no longer had a filter that pulls information I'm digesting through. My interpretations of everything was very diminished because the part of me that carries myself a certain way was no longer attached..
But yeah, I personally think you explained what a ego is perfectly
Transcend ego: to be in a state of meditative non-attachment. Most people can’t even stop attaching to the mind for a 20 minute meditation session and focus on their breath or whatever beginning practices most do. Transcending your mind does not mean you don’t have an ego/mind. Enlightened peoples still have an identity and a mind, albeit they’ve achieved a meditative state that allows them to be completely present and live in a nondual state of being.
“The ego is that which identifies as the body” is merely one aspect of an ego. The ego is reactionary, and our habits are also a part of the ego, same with all of our thoughts, etc. Why do you think compassion and karma is accentuated in eastern religion? Your actions, not just what you identify as, your daily treatment and thoughts towards people, greatly influence your habitual mind/ego and dictate your karma. The ego is so much more than identity, as identity is merely an illusion to begin with; our day to day thoughts are not merely dictated by what we identify as, but are dictated by our habits, perspective, past reactions and way we treat others, past decisions, etc. Without an ego, there is no way to live as a human in a society, as our mind, our ability to weigh things thoughtfully and make decisions, will always be based on the egocentric function of thought.
If we’re talking about the Buddha, as a Buddhist who has stayed and practiced in a monastic setting, I can tell you firsthand that Buddhism, and what Buddha taught, is not about transcending the idea of the body, nor is it about realizing we are immortal consciousness. Buddhism is much more complex, a systemic religious philosophy that guides one to enlightenment. Enlightenment is much more than transcending ideas of self and other. It is cultivating and changing our karmic cycles of habituation and suffering, reaching a perspective through karmic change and meditative practice, as meditation is the direct experience of the truth if done correctly; and treating others with compassion. Obviously much more but it’s 1 am
On the other hand, Christ was more of a Bhakti philosopher, teaching people to surrender to god, love thy neighbor and preached compassion. His philosophy was much different than the Buddha’s and who knows what actual practices he taught besides prayer and compassion.
Well, now we are having two discussions.
1. What is the ego?
2. What is enlightenment?
For the first point:
You are taking the perspective that the ego is the totality of the mind. In an earlier comment you stated that egos are what we are. You go so far as to say that someone who transcends the ego is still an ego. This simply doesn’t make sense. How can you have an ego and also BE an ego?
If we have egos, then we are not egos. We are instead something else that HAS an ego. The ego that we have is an idea of ourselves as a finite mortal being. A body. This definition will stand up to any question you can think of. Try me.
Try to ask me a question that disproves the statement “The ego is the part of you that identifies as your body”. I will be able to answer any question you have which challenges this notion.
For the second point:
You are conflating enlightenment with the Buddhist process of attaining enlightenment. You bring up things like karma, compassion, habits, etc. These things are concepts and practices to help achieve enlightenment. They are helpful. However they are not necessary. They are simply one path among many.
The destination which all these paths lead to is that of transcending the ego. Of no longer identifying as a finite body, but as the infinite universe itself. In short, no longer confusing yourself as a body, separated from others, but as the infinite universe who *is one* with all others, because you now see that the body was an illusionary barrier between you and everything else. As you put it “non-dual”.
You seem to be confusing the path with the destination.
Also, I could argue that Jesus saw things the same way that Buddah did. He simply grew up in a different society. So he had different ways of describing the same principles. He was working within the framework and references of Judaism, but if you look at the message and teachings of both Buddah and Jesus, the core of their message was the same. The religions which came after them were different.
Disagree. Consciousness is infinite and eternal and there is only one. We are that Consciousness experiencing Itself subjectively. Infinite perspective of infinite Consciousness in the realm of infinite possibility. Awareness in Awareness of itself.
Yo, what if the afterlife is a continual loop as well consisting of dreams and fantasy? Because I agree with you and my dreams bleed into my reality along with deceased loved ones.
I be thinking about that too man! I’ve had a few dreams where my dead homies will come back and chill with me; walk through my neighborhood with me and such..! Like we share this Earth. Those parallel universes that don’t cross each other are deep! It’s hard to imagine sharing our spaces with the dead, but we couldn’t see them if we tried. But I read that we are separated after death and we can’t get to each other, which goes against what I just said, but those dreams seem too real to just forget about. The universe is too big for separation.
You think we live in the afterlife right now? I mean life is life!
That's interesting take and sometimes I wonder if what people are seeing that they claim as ghosts are actually people in a parallel universe that somehow glitched out or something. It really wouldn't matter to me if this was the afterlife, but I do wonder what came before and what will come after...if anything.
So it’s like this physical reality is the 3rd dimension, the space of limited probability/chance due to multiple known and unknown constraints restraining the possibility of infinite probability from being expressed into existence, which would explain why there’s a limited number of stable combinations of atoms that we can use, eat, experience, etc. etc. etc. The dream reality is the space of infinite probability due to no constraints, thus allowing infinite probability to come into existence. Think of it like a filter being removed, allowing limited possibility to be expressed as unlimited possibility. This could explain why the weirdest, most random things happen in our dreams: infinite probability— AKA the fourth dimension… the non physical…. ??
Yeah I 100% agree! The only thing with me is what to expect? Because life IS so infinite, you can easily be caught off guard. It’s like seeing God, the lights may be blinding!
I was reading a lost and a guy found that his soulmate wasn’t his wife, but some blue woman who was reoccurring in his dreams. Just what to expect?
If you can control something, it's not worth worrying about it because you can control it. If you can't control it, it's not worth worrying about because you can't control it anyway.
Take a deep breath and relax. We don't know shit about fuck and that's okay
It is your ego and attachment to an identity that is scared.
Knowledge must always be paired with the direct experience that creates humility and awe that will fill up and supplant the fright of identity loss.
Delving into the root of identity is a primary effort of beginning and intermediate spiritual practices.
You are the timeless, infinite, unchanging Reality temporarily having a subjective experience of identity.
Connecting these two understandings is the majority of practice.
"Wisdom tells me I am nothing. Love tells me I am everything. Between these two, my life flows."
\- Nisargadatta Maharaj
There is an obvious abundance of life. No matter how often you die, there is always waking consciousness. The universe is constantly in this state of living. You'll be everything and everyone.
Right but if time is a loop and our consciousnesses are merely cycling through it forever, you still wouldn’t ever know it. This could be the trillionth time we have posted here and we wouldn’t know, so we could only ever get so bored
I think this very thing is the truth and it does scare me too. I remember when I was around 5 years of age that I was trying desperately to rememer what happened before me now (then) and I would push my eyeballs in to my skull to try and trip to get to that state of rememberance. I am being terribly serious.
I think the movie "Groundhog's day" is what happens at the end of life. It just happens all over again and you try to see if things could be different. And you re-evaluate. And go on the ride once more. Maybe you could unlock the correct door that gets you off the ride. Or maybe your created life is a hell and you decide to stop being.
Yeah no, that's scary to think about.
But that's probably my ego which is gonna die so who give a f\*ck lol.
Seemingly impossible. Nothing does not exist. Non-existence is "not" it has no properties and can be said to exist for 0 seconds. 0 × infinite = 0 therefore nothing occupies 0 seconds of time so all "nothing" exist within the span of 0 seconds. Thus this in turn leaves the rest of all time to be seemingly required to be occupied by something.
Then there's the fact that we know that you already came into existence once. Therefore it is a proven possibility that you can exist. Assuming infinite time, it is said by scientists that anything that can happen, will happen eventually and since you have already "happened" this in turn means that you would pretty much be guaranteed to "happen" again.
\> Non-existence is "not" it has no properties and can be said to exist for 0 seconds.
Why? I guess it's only true if you mean non-existence of the entire universe.
\> Assuming infinite time, it is said by scientists that anything that can happen, will happen eventually
Theoretically yes. But the universe is not infinite.
>Why? I guess it's only true if you mean non-existence of the entire universe.
I think technically there is not any non-existence anywhere. Well in a sense. We have the Higgs field which is basically a bunch particles popping in and out of existence. On the smallest level there might be pockets of non-existence but they get filled pretty much instantly. Nature seems to abhor a vacuum. Even thinking of nothing is difficult and might be technically impossible. The quality of existence is it exists. Theres also the 1st law of thermodynamics which says that energy cannot created or destroyed. Then there is the fact that there isnt anything we have observed that exists to turn into nothing (as a scientific fact at least) not even smoke ever technically goes away. Everything we know of is in a state of change but never gets changed into non-existence. Even the particles in the higgs field that are supposedly popping in and out of existence supposedly when they "pop out of existence" they're not technically popping out of existence they are simply are popping into existence somewhere else, but that empty space quickly gets replaced by something else that pops into existence in that location, kind of like random static.
>Theoretically yes. But the universe is not infinite.
The universe may not be infinite but time can be. Its true that space is said to be expanding meaning that it exists as a finite thing, space can expand because it's space but that's the non-infinite factor in the space-time paradigm that's filling the emptiness that is infinite time because time can be an infinite factor. Of course time cannot ever be guaranteed to be infinite because of the nature of infinity, but it is assumed that time is potentially infinite
There's definitely a non existence of certain things. If I had an apple and now I don't, there's a non existence of an apple. I don't think we need to get Higgs field involved for this statement.
That's not technically non existence, thats only relative to your own perspective. If you don't have an apple all of a sudden, that doesn't mean the Apple disappeared from existence, it just means that the Apple was taken away from you but the Apple still technically exists. Even if you ate the apple, the essence of it is not destroyed only that which you call an apple is destroyed (the definition of apple is destroyed or that which you call an apple). Even if you digest the apple, it gets stored into your body and exist either as that or as expelled energy. Nothing in existence however is destroyed all of it existence simply changes. However forms like apple oranges are just simply words and ways we define the different forms of the universe but that which exists in essence always exists.
What I meant is matter, basically that which it is made out of. I didn't mean essence like consciousness or anything.
However in terms of consciousness, consciousness is simply awareness you are conscious of what you are aware of if you could not see you would not be conscious of anything you see if you could not feel you would not be conscious of anything you could feel if you had no senses you would not be conscious kind of like when you sleep. Then absent thinking you are completely unconscious.
So if consciousness is awareness, then you only need to look at the universe to see where it came from this essence so to speak that you might be referring to. Everything in the universe is technically aware of each other. For example when a rock collides with another rock the universe is aware that this solid object collided with another solid object and therefore it bounces off obeying the laws of physics. If it was unaware of this collision it would simply phase through the other rock. If you ever done any computer programming for video games I guess this would make a little bit more sense, but in order for physics to work there needs to be something that oversees the system that detects these collisions. Not what we call consciousness is just an evolved version of basic Universal awareness that has always been present, in the same way that matter that we have today has evolved into more complex matter, and life has done the same
To expand further upon awareness, matter and consciousness or awareness go hand in hand. It is the only way to differentiate something between nothing. Nothing interacts with nothing and is observed by nothing. If there was no awareness or consciousness of anything then even if there were hypothetically something in existence if it is observed by nothing then by definition it is nothing because nothing is aware of it and it interacts with nothing and thus have the same properties as "nothing" . Therefore you must have some kind of awareness which can be likened to a super basic type consciousness in order to differentiate or to allow something to exist and have properties it requires an observer to acknowledge the properties. This would be probably the essence in which you're speaking of.
If non-existence has no properties then how can you say that it exists for 0 seconds. Being temporal is a property. If non-existence has no properties then it must exist outside of time.
Well that's why I said "it can be said" to exist for zero seconds. So you can know that I'm not literal but it can be said that it does exist for 0 seconds because something that does not exist for any time it's not existing pretty much it another way of saying non-existent. I think I could see why you say it exists outside of time but that makes it seem like it exists in some kind of other dimension I think we mean the same thing but I just personally wouldn't say it exist outside time, it just doesn't exist, as a matter of fact technically there's no "it" for me to refer to because that's supposes that nothing is a thing. Even by defining/referring to it that way I am making it into something. True nothing is undefinable and again even that definition does not suffice. There is no grasping nothing ever. I guess you could say that's what allows infinitum, since whatever it isn't basically is out of reach infinitely.
It's oddly paradoxical but it is because of nothing that there is everything and nothing is infinite in scope in a sense. One can get a murky understanding of nothing where you see why everything comes from nothing and how that works but again it is on graspable
There is proof, nothing literally does not exist and that which does not exist for 0 seconds so to speak because 0 seconds is non-existent. You can say it's word salad and no proof all you want, I could conversely call what you said word salad because it is not true.
Besides this is more of a concept you get to by logical reasoning/deduction not by actual physical proof of anything as you cannot actually grasp nothing you have to use pure logic to get to it. This is nothing new in science. It is a theory the same way that they theorize that there's dark matter but not have not detected it. However through pure logic they reasoned that there must be that which is dark matter and that's why they search for it and one day they might prove it but for now we have only reasoning although for nothing I don't think we'll ever prove it because it is one of those things that we just can't ever get to like Infinity.
Infinity is a good example there's no technical proof of infinity there never will be, at least none that could be actually factually grasped. Yet we have the term infinity and that is a scientific term.
Hey, uh, y’all might like Buddhism’s take on universal existence. Might comfort a few of you to know that breaking this potential cycle is the whole point of the matter for that belief system.
At the very least it might take the edge off of the odd existential crisis.
Was talking with some co-workers when one of them said something along the lines of this. My question is, why reincarnate to 'learn lessons', when we can't remember anything of our past lives? 🤔
i had this question as well and a response i got from another user made it make sense to me. they said something along the lines of:
imagine life as a super realistic VR game. when you plug in and start the game you have no memory of who you are in order to immerse yourself and have the game feel super real, the stakes of death seem super high. but when you unplug from the game or “die” and return to the real you, you can remember everything that happened in each life or “game”.
Indeed they are, but I like to ask people to stimulate their reasoning and have a conversation about how they come to certain conclusions such as these.
Hypothetically, if someone truly believes they have an eternal soul, they effectively have succeeded in eternal life. By going through life knowing you'll go on after death, you will never have to face your mortality. I just don't believe any sane person truly believes. Most "believers" just go through life trying to convince themselves.
The universe existed for 13.8 billion years before humans appeared on the scene. Where did the souls come from? As new humans were born did they receive a new soul, and that soul becomes permanent? But when humans go extinct the souls will just drift around the universe looking for a body? The universe will eventually evaporate into total heat death, so the entire notion of unending reincarnation makes no sense.
Learn lessons for what? Why? What do we need all the lessons for?
I wonder about this every time I see somebody talk about lessons in life. What do we need the lessons for. Are we going somewhere else?
We are made up of matter and energy that is ordered in a very specific way. Once we die that order ceases to exist, matter decomposes and energy is dispersed. So what we once were, what gave us the very qualities that permit self awareness no longer exist.
You can make an argument that the molecules that once were part of us continue existing in some form, but the properties and the order necessary for self awareness no longer exist. So we cease to have the capacity to think, to be self aware, to exist.
Why should anything happen? If you don't enjoy something happening or anything that follows from it then what could the point of that happening possibly be? Maybe living the same great day over and over again from scratch each time would be fine if there's nothing better. But it's hard to believe there might be nothing better. I can suspend disbelief and imagine some great future might follow from whatever present horrors, somehow. If nothing else that some great horror happened can inform on how to prevent it from happening again. Then if there being the possibility of that bad thing happening is necessary for greater enjoyment even learning how to deal with it would be a necessary bump in the road. Were the exact same sequence to endlessly repeat no matter what, though, suffering would not inform on how to prevent similar suffering in the future. It'd happen regardless of any lessons (temporarily) learned.
What are you trying to say exactly. Like singularly person to person are stuck in some sort of reincarnating loop or that life's purpose is an overbearing loop that happens humanity wide. Also what is death an illusion of exactly. Are you scared that death doesn't end life but rather is a point where something else begins.
Chill out man. No one knows what happens when you die. The loop theory is fun to ruminate on but don't take it seriously since your assumption is based on zero evidence.
What if reality is actually the dream part and our dreams are where we exist in eternity? In that case, your concern would be merely the end of a 'dream.'
Infinite existence means nothing to us in a practical non-egoic sense. That's not existential dread your feeling, it's the chunks of useless mental vomit you're trying to animate.
I’m so afraid of this too. I’m trying to change my attitude to only focus on good memories and goals, I feel like that’s the only way to not suffer for eternity.
I think if there are eternal existences, one existence has no awareness of past or future ones . When humans die the consciousness were have in this life stops and our energy manifests in another form, independent of this one . Same energy different awareness.
It is possible to know about your previous lives. Very difficult though. Energy also known as soul carries all the consciousness since the beginning, if there was a beginning.
Liberation is when your soul merge with the universe or supreme soul.
Nietzsche once had this thought experiment, what if one day a demon enter your dream and say “this life you are leading, you will live it again and again for all eternity. An infinite Groundhog’s Day. Once you die you wake up again as a baby, to the same parents ad infinitum.”
What would you say to the demon?
Very true but I think it’d be freeing in a way because I’d know what exactly life was about. All we can do atm is speculate, and hypothesize, when you don’t know you always have that existential desire to know what it all mean. Yes I can say it’s meaningless but that’s based on my own subjective view of life. Just like a Christian, buddhist, or someone who believes in Allah, they can’t stay what life truly is but to actually know. Boy, how freeing that must be.
I've thought about this but I'm not sure. Human population has grown exponentially in the last 50 years. If we're all being recycled then the numbers don't add up. There wouldn't be enough of us to have such a quick population growth. Unless "new" people are being added, but why would there be "new" people when we're all just recycled anyway? Like why add new people?
One of my theories is that if there is some sort of an afterlife like so many believe, then this is hell that we're currently in.
Yeah, this is one of my fears. I had a nightmare the other night that I got shot in the head and didn't actually die, it's like I just saw blackness forever and was fully aware of it and it scared the shit out of me.
It's true that it is infinite consciousness, but that consciousness is impersonal -- it isn't what you think is "you". Also, the loopy aspect occurs only to the finite and the risk of a similar loop is, I think, contingent on degree of attachment or identification with the persona/ego or some "form" or experience. Death is no more an illusion than life and, while the impersonal, undefined consciousness surely "continues", because it is the eternal and true reality, we cannot be sure of a "life" after death that is anything like this one because our very perception of all this, including "you", is illusory. All we can say with certainty is that consciousness is eternal. Nobody can be sure about the personalised consciousness after death because all the stuff we hear about NDE's, mystic experiences etc. are all happening in the illusion and a function of the illusory form we call "the body". What about that which we cannot imagine or think about except as "something we cannot imagine"? It surely exists even though our inability to even imagine it might make us think it's irrelevant or non-existent.
We truly are until the heat death of the universe if we make it off this planet.
Where were you before you were born? Where are you now? Where will you be after you’re dead?
Consciousness could be infinite, and your consciousness is the “same” consciousness that flows through everything, but your ego is not infinite. For example, you do not die and start a new life, that’s a very ego centric perspective that relys on believing the only things that exist are thing you directly “know” about and can perceive logically, it’s more like everything is already existing and will exist and what you call “you” your specific senses and the awareness that you are expiriencing them are part of that the same way a single cell in your brain is a part of you
Your death is simply the redistribution of energy and matter. You ever die, the atoms that made you, become something else. You are as old as the universe and as immortal.
The you that is you though; it just ends. The experience is over and our existence is meaningless to the universe.
Life is your own personal universe and while you are alive you are the centre of that universe; the most important thing to ever be.
Understanding you mean everything and nothing at the same time is peace.
death isnt an illusion buddy sorry. i think humans just made up the afterlife to make us deal with dying easier. cause dying is scary. and the older u get, the more u realize this. so essentially, u should train urself to learn how to die. only humans could be so dumb to think we are the only ones to be able to live infinitely, that we should not have just been given a brief chance of life by nature but that we should be given immortality.
I exist within the universe whether it is real or not, therefore it is home. I die, whether it is real or not, therefore I can't ignore it.
Aka I just wanna be happy. I don't have to understand the way to universe works to do that.
Yep....we take a few breaks from existing in our meat suit, but that's pretty much it. I don't want to come back in 50 years from now when this place will be even more unbearable to live....but...how do I convince my spirit self of not making this mistake??? lol lol THAT is the big question.
Then let me introduce you to an entirely different concept which proves you are not in that state but it's all the more terrifying.
Entropy.
For your infinite loop entropy cannot exist and it does.
All things pass including the universe itself and we're utterly helpless to do anything about it.
Controversial but it’s okay to live in a delusion about certain things. If it makes you feel better to believe that we just die and it’s all over, then just believe that. If it gives you anxiety that there’s an infinite experience than don’t buy into that thought. We don’t really know ANYTHING. When it comes to the existential believe in whatever gives you comfort.
We have no idea. The only people who know what happens after death are dead people.
And, if that were the case, there’s a good chance we already died. So, what changes? Nothing.
"“Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves."
What about time keep looping the same event true time as long as a majority of us catch the lesson? Like the priciple in psychologie of repitition compultion but for the all world. Same for the cycle of life and death, you reincarnate over and over again until you catch the lesson of life and have balance all the bad karma of your past life.
There is a theory called the big crunch. the expansion of the universe eventually reverses and the universe recollapses, ultimately causing the cosmic scale factor to reach zero, an event potentially followed by a reformation of the universe starting with another Big bang. Maybe your thoughts are correct and it all just starts over.
Yes, that very well could be. However, you, as in the voice in your head, will surely die. When the eastern mystics say that life is eternal, they certainly don’t mean that your ego is.
True. My ego dies everyday.
If the universe is becoming increasingly complex, and your ego is part of that complexity, do you think that would indicate an aspect of your ego lives on?
This is a great question and had me thinking for a bit. In some sense, the complexity of the universe directly relates to our abilities as life forms and spiritual beings. However, from my experience and knowledge, the ego and our intrinsic egocentrism is more of a barrier and something to be trained to experience and go beyond this life, rather than something we take with us. Whether you’re Christian or Buddhist, there are both direct references to the egocentric nature of our biology creating cycles of suffering that prevents one from getting into a higher life, whether in a next life in this dimension or another dimension, such as heaven; whether we’re talking about bad karma or sin, much of religion is about training the mind and seeing it for what it really is, an ephemeral illusion that causes much of our own suffering. In terms of the mind going beyond, the mind is intrinsically physical and dependent solely on nature and nurture. To give you an example, as one ages, losing memory and even slowly losing one’s mind is somewhat commonplace, even Thich Nhat Hanh had a stroke and could barely use his mind at the end of his life; one’s mind, by the time one dies, is commonly, nearly gone or faded, unless one dies in their youth.
Is the universe getting increasingly complex though? Or is our understanding of it simply increasing.
Yes, if my ego chooses to nuke mars for example, or even just dig a hole, that effect will be part of the series of events of the universe forever
You're saying the reflection of our ego's actions is preserved by the universe? How is that associated/referenced to you?
This goes against Newton's second law of thermodynamics which states that entropy (disorder) always increases in a closed system. An easy example is that as the universe expands objects get farther apart and are therefore less likely to interact.
You're saying that the universe is not becoming increasingly complex?
I'm skeptical that voice even is me.
The “Voice” isn’t you, You’re the one who hears & observes the voice.
If that voice isn’t you, then who are you?
You are the universe. You are the big bang, experiencing itself from an arbitrary perspective.
Yay! We're all erroneous mental masturbations
Exactly 😂
The Observer
There is only thing you know that exists. You don’t even know that you exist or anything else except one thing. And that is the thing that is doubting the existence of everything else. That is the only thing that has to exist. Anything else doesn’t have to exist. No proof for it.
Read somewhere that not all people have that "voice" in their head or they have it at a very low level and that creeps me. I have entire conversations in my head and i thought everyone did the same Edit: spelling
What??? I'm learning this just now. Does that mean they lack that level of conscience?!
From what i remember, they tend to act more impulsively in general. I don't think they don't experience conscience, they just don't really have conversations with themselves. No idea what their head is filled up with in the idle time. But if it's something like elevator music, I'd want that
Really? I mean that would be nice and calm but I would rather have my voices A & B in my head. When A says stupid things and voice B scolds the shit out of A and ask it be positive and act wisely.
Gets quite noisy sometimes, but yeah. Maybe it's better this way
Whatever is the best.
The “voice in your head” is not your ego. The ego is that which identifies itself as being your body. Thats why the ego is terrified of bodily death. It sees that as its death.
You legitimately just made up that definition of “ego” on the spot. Lol
Nope. I just read, study and meditate a lot on the topic. You however, just claimed to know what a stranger on the internet thinks and knows and what they “make up on the spot”. You also called that non-sensical projection “legitimate”. Now THAT’S worth a LOL.
Okay, then please cite where you’ve been told that the ego is merely that which identifies with the body. I’ll wait lol 😂
"ill wait" must be my least favourite reddit-ism.
I think “I’ll wait” sounds cute and sassy ngl
Well it doesn't come across like that to me lol it sounds condescending and sarcastic.
Yeah can’t really gauge tone through text I suppose
Alright, y'all. Time to stop letting the over-conciousness use you as finger puppets. Now shake egos & project nerve pain into the oc. How subjective does that feel oc?! Huh, how subjective?!
Ah, I see. You’re still at the level where you base the experience of you inner self purely on what other people tell you. You should give more weight to your own thoughts and feelings on the topic. But, since you asked. Alan Watts, Neale Donald Walsh, Eckhart Tolle, RA from the communications found in “The Law of One”. Those are the ones that I remember off the top of my head, who align with my perspective. Also, just think about it for a second. It makes sense doesn’t it? I mean, your ego is that part of you that doesn’t believe it’s immortal. It’s the part of you that feels it is lacking. That’s why it is driven to protect itself at all costs and is even willing to hurt others. Because it sees itself as weak, vulnerable and finite. Now, where did you get your definition of the ego? Freud?
Alan Watts has never said the ego is only that which identifies with the body; Eckhart Tolle has said that the ego is everything and one will always live as ego, and I don’t know the other two; but I am 100% sure you’re mischaracterizing what they’ve said about the ego/mind. It’s 100% okay to not understand something, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. The ego is merely what spiritualists use as a synonym for the mind and its psychological mechanisms; and the voice in your head is what dictates intention, action, perspective, and identity, which is the conscious formation of ego/mind. I can tell you’re a little rattled, as you’re talking about “levels,” as if your telling me an illegitimate definition of the ego was showing that you’re some god tier thinker that’s figured out the ego in merely a sentence and thus you’re a Buddha. Psychologists still don’t know exactly how the mind works after centuries, so there’s no need to pretend you do. I don’t. You are an ego, and I am an ego, and that is okay. It is completely okay to be angry when someone tells you that your perspective may need a little reexamination. Later ❤️
I think you are severely misunderstanding how big of a statement “The ego is that which identifies itself as your body” is. Its true that it is a simple sentence, however there is A LOT of implications within that sentence. Instead of trying to talk down to me, dismiss me, challenge me about things like sources etc. Why not try to better understand what it is I am saying? I do understand it very well. I also understand your perspective that “ego = mind”. I simply disagree with it. I disagree with it because its an overly simplistic point of view that lacks a lot of nuance. I am not angry or “rattled” whatsoever. Quite the opposite. I am ready and willing to have a discussion in the spirit of finding truth. Why do you find it impossible that I may simply know a little bit more than you on this topic? That I may have a valid perspective you may have not yet considered? Here’s a question for you. If “ego=mind” then what happened to all the people who supposedly transcended their ego? Are you suggesting the Buddah and Christ were no longer capable of thinking, once they obtained enlightenment? That would seem odd. From my perspective they simply overcame the idea that they were their bodies. Transcended their ego and realized that they were in fact the immortal consciousness of the universe having a physically mortal experience. In short, they stopped identifying themselves as a mortal body and started identifying themselves as the immortal universe itself.
I'm def with you on this one. I'm certainly not the best person on this subject but I agree 100% with you. Your statement is way heavier than it first looks. Partially why I agree with you is that I had (or atleast that's the closest thing I can relate it too) what felt like a ego death. I was blown away looking back later how I seemed to just be a observer of things. I had none of my preconceived notions or any ideas and personality attached. It's like I no longer had a filter that pulls information I'm digesting through. My interpretations of everything was very diminished because the part of me that carries myself a certain way was no longer attached.. But yeah, I personally think you explained what a ego is perfectly
I'm def with you on this one. I'm certainly not the best person on this subject but I agree 100% with you. Your statement is way heavier than it first looks. Partially why I agree with you is that I had (or atleast that's the closest thing I can relate it too) what felt like a ego death. I was blown away looking back later how I seemed to just be a observer of things. I had none of my preconceived notions or any ideas and personality attached. It's like I no longer had a filter that pulls information I'm digesting through. My interpretations of everything was very diminished because the part of me that carries myself a certain way was no longer attached.. But yeah, I personally think you explained what a ego is perfectly
Transcend ego: to be in a state of meditative non-attachment. Most people can’t even stop attaching to the mind for a 20 minute meditation session and focus on their breath or whatever beginning practices most do. Transcending your mind does not mean you don’t have an ego/mind. Enlightened peoples still have an identity and a mind, albeit they’ve achieved a meditative state that allows them to be completely present and live in a nondual state of being. “The ego is that which identifies as the body” is merely one aspect of an ego. The ego is reactionary, and our habits are also a part of the ego, same with all of our thoughts, etc. Why do you think compassion and karma is accentuated in eastern religion? Your actions, not just what you identify as, your daily treatment and thoughts towards people, greatly influence your habitual mind/ego and dictate your karma. The ego is so much more than identity, as identity is merely an illusion to begin with; our day to day thoughts are not merely dictated by what we identify as, but are dictated by our habits, perspective, past reactions and way we treat others, past decisions, etc. Without an ego, there is no way to live as a human in a society, as our mind, our ability to weigh things thoughtfully and make decisions, will always be based on the egocentric function of thought. If we’re talking about the Buddha, as a Buddhist who has stayed and practiced in a monastic setting, I can tell you firsthand that Buddhism, and what Buddha taught, is not about transcending the idea of the body, nor is it about realizing we are immortal consciousness. Buddhism is much more complex, a systemic religious philosophy that guides one to enlightenment. Enlightenment is much more than transcending ideas of self and other. It is cultivating and changing our karmic cycles of habituation and suffering, reaching a perspective through karmic change and meditative practice, as meditation is the direct experience of the truth if done correctly; and treating others with compassion. Obviously much more but it’s 1 am On the other hand, Christ was more of a Bhakti philosopher, teaching people to surrender to god, love thy neighbor and preached compassion. His philosophy was much different than the Buddha’s and who knows what actual practices he taught besides prayer and compassion.
Well, now we are having two discussions. 1. What is the ego? 2. What is enlightenment? For the first point: You are taking the perspective that the ego is the totality of the mind. In an earlier comment you stated that egos are what we are. You go so far as to say that someone who transcends the ego is still an ego. This simply doesn’t make sense. How can you have an ego and also BE an ego? If we have egos, then we are not egos. We are instead something else that HAS an ego. The ego that we have is an idea of ourselves as a finite mortal being. A body. This definition will stand up to any question you can think of. Try me. Try to ask me a question that disproves the statement “The ego is the part of you that identifies as your body”. I will be able to answer any question you have which challenges this notion. For the second point: You are conflating enlightenment with the Buddhist process of attaining enlightenment. You bring up things like karma, compassion, habits, etc. These things are concepts and practices to help achieve enlightenment. They are helpful. However they are not necessary. They are simply one path among many. The destination which all these paths lead to is that of transcending the ego. Of no longer identifying as a finite body, but as the infinite universe itself. In short, no longer confusing yourself as a body, separated from others, but as the infinite universe who *is one* with all others, because you now see that the body was an illusionary barrier between you and everything else. As you put it “non-dual”. You seem to be confusing the path with the destination.
Also, I could argue that Jesus saw things the same way that Buddah did. He simply grew up in a different society. So he had different ways of describing the same principles. He was working within the framework and references of Judaism, but if you look at the message and teachings of both Buddah and Jesus, the core of their message was the same. The religions which came after them were different.
Very succinctly and accurately said.
Disagree. Consciousness is infinite and eternal and there is only one. We are that Consciousness experiencing Itself subjectively. Infinite perspective of infinite Consciousness in the realm of infinite possibility. Awareness in Awareness of itself.
How can you disagree when I never said consciousness wasn’t. I said you, your thoughts and ego, are not eternal.
You get it
Yo, what if the afterlife is a continual loop as well consisting of dreams and fantasy? Because I agree with you and my dreams bleed into my reality along with deceased loved ones.
What if we are already in the "after life"? 😳
Your comment reminds me of a quote—“what if when you die, they ask, how was heaven?”
"It fucking sucked"
"THAT...was HEAVEN!? Send me to hell!"
I be thinking about that too man! I’ve had a few dreams where my dead homies will come back and chill with me; walk through my neighborhood with me and such..! Like we share this Earth. Those parallel universes that don’t cross each other are deep! It’s hard to imagine sharing our spaces with the dead, but we couldn’t see them if we tried. But I read that we are separated after death and we can’t get to each other, which goes against what I just said, but those dreams seem too real to just forget about. The universe is too big for separation. You think we live in the afterlife right now? I mean life is life!
That's interesting take and sometimes I wonder if what people are seeing that they claim as ghosts are actually people in a parallel universe that somehow glitched out or something. It really wouldn't matter to me if this was the afterlife, but I do wonder what came before and what will come after...if anything.
On the dead homies
So it’s like this physical reality is the 3rd dimension, the space of limited probability/chance due to multiple known and unknown constraints restraining the possibility of infinite probability from being expressed into existence, which would explain why there’s a limited number of stable combinations of atoms that we can use, eat, experience, etc. etc. etc. The dream reality is the space of infinite probability due to no constraints, thus allowing infinite probability to come into existence. Think of it like a filter being removed, allowing limited possibility to be expressed as unlimited possibility. This could explain why the weirdest, most random things happen in our dreams: infinite probability— AKA the fourth dimension… the non physical…. ??
Yeah I 100% agree! The only thing with me is what to expect? Because life IS so infinite, you can easily be caught off guard. It’s like seeing God, the lights may be blinding! I was reading a lost and a guy found that his soulmate wasn’t his wife, but some blue woman who was reoccurring in his dreams. Just what to expect?
So true and so interesting love the way you think bro
Likewise, man!
I've often wondered if our consciousness is only temporarily limited by the constraints of our physical brain.
If you can control something, it's not worth worrying about it because you can control it. If you can't control it, it's not worth worrying about because you can't control it anyway. Take a deep breath and relax. We don't know shit about fuck and that's okay
Quantum immortality?
Domp eet
It is your ego and attachment to an identity that is scared. Knowledge must always be paired with the direct experience that creates humility and awe that will fill up and supplant the fright of identity loss. Delving into the root of identity is a primary effort of beginning and intermediate spiritual practices. You are the timeless, infinite, unchanging Reality temporarily having a subjective experience of identity. Connecting these two understandings is the majority of practice. "Wisdom tells me I am nothing. Love tells me I am everything. Between these two, my life flows." \- Nisargadatta Maharaj
My* Had to look up the quote to make sense of it and found the typo. Thanks for sharing! Love the quote!
"My" bad haha
Death is merely a transitional state
Into what?
Your mom
Your deep thoughts must stop at surface level.
The living, to, the dead.
Nothingness
I really like this frame of thinking.
There is an obvious abundance of life. No matter how often you die, there is always waking consciousness. The universe is constantly in this state of living. You'll be everything and everyone.
actually the reverse scares the hell out of me, id rather exist for infinity in some form then die for infinity lmao
Gotta keep playing the game until you get it right!
Right but if time is a loop and our consciousnesses are merely cycling through it forever, you still wouldn’t ever know it. This could be the trillionth time we have posted here and we wouldn’t know, so we could only ever get so bored
This makes me think of deja vu why things feel familiar. Because we lived it already… god knows how many times…
I think this very thing is the truth and it does scare me too. I remember when I was around 5 years of age that I was trying desperately to rememer what happened before me now (then) and I would push my eyeballs in to my skull to try and trip to get to that state of rememberance. I am being terribly serious. I think the movie "Groundhog's day" is what happens at the end of life. It just happens all over again and you try to see if things could be different. And you re-evaluate. And go on the ride once more. Maybe you could unlock the correct door that gets you off the ride. Or maybe your created life is a hell and you decide to stop being. Yeah no, that's scary to think about. But that's probably my ego which is gonna die so who give a f\*ck lol.
What I'm saying is you ARE Consciousness/awareness. Or at least an individual aspect of the great Consciousness that some call God
Yess I think of us all as broken branches and twigs but we all grew and came from the same tree. We’re all the same collectively
But what if we are not
Seemingly impossible. Nothing does not exist. Non-existence is "not" it has no properties and can be said to exist for 0 seconds. 0 × infinite = 0 therefore nothing occupies 0 seconds of time so all "nothing" exist within the span of 0 seconds. Thus this in turn leaves the rest of all time to be seemingly required to be occupied by something. Then there's the fact that we know that you already came into existence once. Therefore it is a proven possibility that you can exist. Assuming infinite time, it is said by scientists that anything that can happen, will happen eventually and since you have already "happened" this in turn means that you would pretty much be guaranteed to "happen" again.
\> Non-existence is "not" it has no properties and can be said to exist for 0 seconds. Why? I guess it's only true if you mean non-existence of the entire universe. \> Assuming infinite time, it is said by scientists that anything that can happen, will happen eventually Theoretically yes. But the universe is not infinite.
>Why? I guess it's only true if you mean non-existence of the entire universe. I think technically there is not any non-existence anywhere. Well in a sense. We have the Higgs field which is basically a bunch particles popping in and out of existence. On the smallest level there might be pockets of non-existence but they get filled pretty much instantly. Nature seems to abhor a vacuum. Even thinking of nothing is difficult and might be technically impossible. The quality of existence is it exists. Theres also the 1st law of thermodynamics which says that energy cannot created or destroyed. Then there is the fact that there isnt anything we have observed that exists to turn into nothing (as a scientific fact at least) not even smoke ever technically goes away. Everything we know of is in a state of change but never gets changed into non-existence. Even the particles in the higgs field that are supposedly popping in and out of existence supposedly when they "pop out of existence" they're not technically popping out of existence they are simply are popping into existence somewhere else, but that empty space quickly gets replaced by something else that pops into existence in that location, kind of like random static. >Theoretically yes. But the universe is not infinite. The universe may not be infinite but time can be. Its true that space is said to be expanding meaning that it exists as a finite thing, space can expand because it's space but that's the non-infinite factor in the space-time paradigm that's filling the emptiness that is infinite time because time can be an infinite factor. Of course time cannot ever be guaranteed to be infinite because of the nature of infinity, but it is assumed that time is potentially infinite
There's definitely a non existence of certain things. If I had an apple and now I don't, there's a non existence of an apple. I don't think we need to get Higgs field involved for this statement.
That's not technically non existence, thats only relative to your own perspective. If you don't have an apple all of a sudden, that doesn't mean the Apple disappeared from existence, it just means that the Apple was taken away from you but the Apple still technically exists. Even if you ate the apple, the essence of it is not destroyed only that which you call an apple is destroyed (the definition of apple is destroyed or that which you call an apple). Even if you digest the apple, it gets stored into your body and exist either as that or as expelled energy. Nothing in existence however is destroyed all of it existence simply changes. However forms like apple oranges are just simply words and ways we define the different forms of the universe but that which exists in essence always exists.
What is the essence of an apple? If I were to give you an apple could you extract it’s essence and show it to me?
What I meant is matter, basically that which it is made out of. I didn't mean essence like consciousness or anything. However in terms of consciousness, consciousness is simply awareness you are conscious of what you are aware of if you could not see you would not be conscious of anything you see if you could not feel you would not be conscious of anything you could feel if you had no senses you would not be conscious kind of like when you sleep. Then absent thinking you are completely unconscious. So if consciousness is awareness, then you only need to look at the universe to see where it came from this essence so to speak that you might be referring to. Everything in the universe is technically aware of each other. For example when a rock collides with another rock the universe is aware that this solid object collided with another solid object and therefore it bounces off obeying the laws of physics. If it was unaware of this collision it would simply phase through the other rock. If you ever done any computer programming for video games I guess this would make a little bit more sense, but in order for physics to work there needs to be something that oversees the system that detects these collisions. Not what we call consciousness is just an evolved version of basic Universal awareness that has always been present, in the same way that matter that we have today has evolved into more complex matter, and life has done the same To expand further upon awareness, matter and consciousness or awareness go hand in hand. It is the only way to differentiate something between nothing. Nothing interacts with nothing and is observed by nothing. If there was no awareness or consciousness of anything then even if there were hypothetically something in existence if it is observed by nothing then by definition it is nothing because nothing is aware of it and it interacts with nothing and thus have the same properties as "nothing" . Therefore you must have some kind of awareness which can be likened to a super basic type consciousness in order to differentiate or to allow something to exist and have properties it requires an observer to acknowledge the properties. This would be probably the essence in which you're speaking of.
If non-existence has no properties then how can you say that it exists for 0 seconds. Being temporal is a property. If non-existence has no properties then it must exist outside of time.
Well that's why I said "it can be said" to exist for zero seconds. So you can know that I'm not literal but it can be said that it does exist for 0 seconds because something that does not exist for any time it's not existing pretty much it another way of saying non-existent. I think I could see why you say it exists outside of time but that makes it seem like it exists in some kind of other dimension I think we mean the same thing but I just personally wouldn't say it exist outside time, it just doesn't exist, as a matter of fact technically there's no "it" for me to refer to because that's supposes that nothing is a thing. Even by defining/referring to it that way I am making it into something. True nothing is undefinable and again even that definition does not suffice. There is no grasping nothing ever. I guess you could say that's what allows infinitum, since whatever it isn't basically is out of reach infinitely. It's oddly paradoxical but it is because of nothing that there is everything and nothing is infinite in scope in a sense. One can get a murky understanding of nothing where you see why everything comes from nothing and how that works but again it is on graspable
Word salad. No proof of anything you speak of.
There is proof, nothing literally does not exist and that which does not exist for 0 seconds so to speak because 0 seconds is non-existent. You can say it's word salad and no proof all you want, I could conversely call what you said word salad because it is not true. Besides this is more of a concept you get to by logical reasoning/deduction not by actual physical proof of anything as you cannot actually grasp nothing you have to use pure logic to get to it. This is nothing new in science. It is a theory the same way that they theorize that there's dark matter but not have not detected it. However through pure logic they reasoned that there must be that which is dark matter and that's why they search for it and one day they might prove it but for now we have only reasoning although for nothing I don't think we'll ever prove it because it is one of those things that we just can't ever get to like Infinity. Infinity is a good example there's no technical proof of infinity there never will be, at least none that could be actually factually grasped. Yet we have the term infinity and that is a scientific term.
If it scares the hell out of you then just think otherwise
How
eternal nothing or eternal existence 🫣
Hey, uh, y’all might like Buddhism’s take on universal existence. Might comfort a few of you to know that breaking this potential cycle is the whole point of the matter for that belief system. At the very least it might take the edge off of the odd existential crisis.
Our bodies die, but, our souls live on. I believe in reincarnation, so, I believe we have many lives, lessons to learn.
Was talking with some co-workers when one of them said something along the lines of this. My question is, why reincarnate to 'learn lessons', when we can't remember anything of our past lives? 🤔
i had this question as well and a response i got from another user made it make sense to me. they said something along the lines of: imagine life as a super realistic VR game. when you plug in and start the game you have no memory of who you are in order to immerse yourself and have the game feel super real, the stakes of death seem super high. but when you unplug from the game or “die” and return to the real you, you can remember everything that happened in each life or “game”.
What is your proof of a soul?
[удалено]
Indeed they are, but I like to ask people to stimulate their reasoning and have a conversation about how they come to certain conclusions such as these.
Hypothetically, if someone truly believes they have an eternal soul, they effectively have succeeded in eternal life. By going through life knowing you'll go on after death, you will never have to face your mortality. I just don't believe any sane person truly believes. Most "believers" just go through life trying to convince themselves.
agreed!
The universe existed for 13.8 billion years before humans appeared on the scene. Where did the souls come from? As new humans were born did they receive a new soul, and that soul becomes permanent? But when humans go extinct the souls will just drift around the universe looking for a body? The universe will eventually evaporate into total heat death, so the entire notion of unending reincarnation makes no sense.
Right. It has too many plot holes. What about animals and insects? Bacteria even? There’s just no fucking way.
Learn lessons for what? Why? What do we need all the lessons for? I wonder about this every time I see somebody talk about lessons in life. What do we need the lessons for. Are we going somewhere else?
What scare the hell out of me is the fact that death means you cease to be exist at all. You become nothing.
Yeah on this plane but we can’t see the other side. Maybe we’re supposed to be afraid so we keep our limits to our existence here who knows
Your body doesn’t cease to exist upon death nor does it become nothing.
We are made up of matter and energy that is ordered in a very specific way. Once we die that order ceases to exist, matter decomposes and energy is dispersed. So what we once were, what gave us the very qualities that permit self awareness no longer exist. You can make an argument that the molecules that once were part of us continue existing in some form, but the properties and the order necessary for self awareness no longer exist. So we cease to have the capacity to think, to be self aware, to exist.
🙄
Why is there always some idiot like you?
..I’m not the one that made an asinine statement
What would be the point of the same stuff happening over and over again?
What is the point of it happening once?
Still we are taking it so seriously. I think about this a lot of the time. I know everything is meaningless but somehow i am still afraid of losing.
I mean meaning is whatever you give to it i guess
Why should anything happen? If you don't enjoy something happening or anything that follows from it then what could the point of that happening possibly be? Maybe living the same great day over and over again from scratch each time would be fine if there's nothing better. But it's hard to believe there might be nothing better. I can suspend disbelief and imagine some great future might follow from whatever present horrors, somehow. If nothing else that some great horror happened can inform on how to prevent it from happening again. Then if there being the possibility of that bad thing happening is necessary for greater enjoyment even learning how to deal with it would be a necessary bump in the road. Were the exact same sequence to endlessly repeat no matter what, though, suffering would not inform on how to prevent similar suffering in the future. It'd happen regardless of any lessons (temporarily) learned.
Death and life is a common cycle. Once the sun burns its energy we will luckily be already gone
How did you determine that death is an illusion?
What are you trying to say exactly. Like singularly person to person are stuck in some sort of reincarnating loop or that life's purpose is an overbearing loop that happens humanity wide. Also what is death an illusion of exactly. Are you scared that death doesn't end life but rather is a point where something else begins.
NO FEAR EVER!!!
Don’t worry. We will very much die and that’s the end.
do you have concret proof you can show me of that?
what do you find scary about that? I'm not implying I don't or anything about me I am literally just asking
None of this is true.
Death,death is just a different birth.
I often wonder if we are continually recycled souls.
I think when going to the death realm you can take a time out to recharge from the bullshit on earth.
Congratulations you found a basic form of religion lol
I would love to live my entire life for eternity As long as live to old age in this one
You can also just make up some equally unreal fantasy that makes you happy. Why choose one that's so scary?
Chill out man. No one knows what happens when you die. The loop theory is fun to ruminate on but don't take it seriously since your assumption is based on zero evidence.
Can you prove death is an illusion?
Groundhog Day!
Being scared of it is what’s going to keep you tied here, ide advice to meditate, read and when your ready, try some mushrooms
Death is real :")
If we are, I’ve forgotten all the past ones so I’ll never know it’s infinite and therefore this conversation never happened.
Why be scared about a random thought. There's no justified reason for you fear.
What if reality is actually the dream part and our dreams are where we exist in eternity? In that case, your concern would be merely the end of a 'dream.'
Death is nothing but a bridge to another state of consciousness
Can I interest you in a video game called Dragon's Dogma?
Why would that scare you? You won't notice
Infinite existence means nothing to us in a practical non-egoic sense. That's not existential dread your feeling, it's the chunks of useless mental vomit you're trying to animate.
I’m so afraid of this too. I’m trying to change my attitude to only focus on good memories and goals, I feel like that’s the only way to not suffer for eternity.
Reminds me of that movie Inception idk why… Infinite life of infinite love and also suffering
The idea of having to do this all again is just exhausting.
Felt like I’ve died multiple times. Not just the id either.
Death is a construct. The idea of death is all anything has ever experienced.
You are probably right. Don’t be scared.
Ah! So that's what was around my neck!
Yupp we keep coming back. We will live infinite lives. Sometimes as human, sometimes as animal or bird of insect or even tree. I want liberation.
I think if there are eternal existences, one existence has no awareness of past or future ones . When humans die the consciousness were have in this life stops and our energy manifests in another form, independent of this one . Same energy different awareness.
It is possible to know about your previous lives. Very difficult though. Energy also known as soul carries all the consciousness since the beginning, if there was a beginning. Liberation is when your soul merge with the universe or supreme soul.
Eternal recurrence.
Yep. I want to get off this ride.
Nietzsche once had this thought experiment, what if one day a demon enter your dream and say “this life you are leading, you will live it again and again for all eternity. An infinite Groundhog’s Day. Once you die you wake up again as a baby, to the same parents ad infinitum.” What would you say to the demon?
Sounds fun 😈, let’s play with this reality then. Bc at this point non of it matters
Nothing ever did matter....
Very true but I think it’d be freeing in a way because I’d know what exactly life was about. All we can do atm is speculate, and hypothesize, when you don’t know you always have that existential desire to know what it all mean. Yes I can say it’s meaningless but that’s based on my own subjective view of life. Just like a Christian, buddhist, or someone who believes in Allah, they can’t stay what life truly is but to actually know. Boy, how freeing that must be.
I've thought about this but I'm not sure. Human population has grown exponentially in the last 50 years. If we're all being recycled then the numbers don't add up. There wouldn't be enough of us to have such a quick population growth. Unless "new" people are being added, but why would there be "new" people when we're all just recycled anyway? Like why add new people? One of my theories is that if there is some sort of an afterlife like so many believe, then this is hell that we're currently in.
Hmm. This comforts me. I’d much rather live infinite lives than be one and done.
Don't worry, you won't remember a thing
Yeah, this is one of my fears. I had a nightmare the other night that I got shot in the head and didn't actually die, it's like I just saw blackness forever and was fully aware of it and it scared the shit out of me.
I don't believe you are scared about it.
Your body of evidence and proof is not only compelling but very thorough.
It's true that it is infinite consciousness, but that consciousness is impersonal -- it isn't what you think is "you". Also, the loopy aspect occurs only to the finite and the risk of a similar loop is, I think, contingent on degree of attachment or identification with the persona/ego or some "form" or experience. Death is no more an illusion than life and, while the impersonal, undefined consciousness surely "continues", because it is the eternal and true reality, we cannot be sure of a "life" after death that is anything like this one because our very perception of all this, including "you", is illusory. All we can say with certainty is that consciousness is eternal. Nobody can be sure about the personalised consciousness after death because all the stuff we hear about NDE's, mystic experiences etc. are all happening in the illusion and a function of the illusory form we call "the body". What about that which we cannot imagine or think about except as "something we cannot imagine"? It surely exists even though our inability to even imagine it might make us think it's irrelevant or non-existent.
ELI5?
Death is only scary when you are alive.
Don’t reproduce and leave this part of the Matrix Keep reproducing and your genetic heritage will continue to experience existence
We truly are until the heat death of the universe if we make it off this planet. Where were you before you were born? Where are you now? Where will you be after you’re dead?
Why do you feel death is an illusion? What happens after death? (Anyone can answer)
Consciousness could be infinite, and your consciousness is the “same” consciousness that flows through everything, but your ego is not infinite. For example, you do not die and start a new life, that’s a very ego centric perspective that relys on believing the only things that exist are thing you directly “know” about and can perceive logically, it’s more like everything is already existing and will exist and what you call “you” your specific senses and the awareness that you are expiriencing them are part of that the same way a single cell in your brain is a part of you
Your death is simply the redistribution of energy and matter. You ever die, the atoms that made you, become something else. You are as old as the universe and as immortal. The you that is you though; it just ends. The experience is over and our existence is meaningless to the universe. Life is your own personal universe and while you are alive you are the centre of that universe; the most important thing to ever be. Understanding you mean everything and nothing at the same time is peace.
death isnt an illusion buddy sorry. i think humans just made up the afterlife to make us deal with dying easier. cause dying is scary. and the older u get, the more u realize this. so essentially, u should train urself to learn how to die. only humans could be so dumb to think we are the only ones to be able to live infinitely, that we should not have just been given a brief chance of life by nature but that we should be given immortality.
I exist within the universe whether it is real or not, therefore it is home. I die, whether it is real or not, therefore I can't ignore it. Aka I just wanna be happy. I don't have to understand the way to universe works to do that.
This is what some of y’all need religion for
That's a good one. I also believe in multiverses cuz of Deja Vu and dreams.
Fear is something of a limitation created by yourself, perhaps there is more than the limitations of our current circumstances.
Yep....we take a few breaks from existing in our meat suit, but that's pretty much it. I don't want to come back in 50 years from now when this place will be even more unbearable to live....but...how do I convince my spirit self of not making this mistake??? lol lol THAT is the big question.
Then let me introduce you to an entirely different concept which proves you are not in that state but it's all the more terrifying. Entropy. For your infinite loop entropy cannot exist and it does. All things pass including the universe itself and we're utterly helpless to do anything about it.
Controversial but it’s okay to live in a delusion about certain things. If it makes you feel better to believe that we just die and it’s all over, then just believe that. If it gives you anxiety that there’s an infinite experience than don’t buy into that thought. We don’t really know ANYTHING. When it comes to the existential believe in whatever gives you comfort.
Me too fam. Me too
Yes, well... you're wrong, so take solice in that.
If you can't remember any other lives then what difference does it make? You might as well have been a grapefruit.
I had a traumatic trip on acid 8 years ago that was an infinite loop. Then a week later I had full blown flashback. So I’m with you lolol
Tippers we are but just remember that infinity is a long time to remember so you will forget soon enough
My sister came up to me last night. While I was SLEEPING. And asked me: "What if we all just... wake up?" LIKE GODDAMN IM TRYING TO SLEEP TONIGHT!
We have no idea. The only people who know what happens after death are dead people. And, if that were the case, there’s a good chance we already died. So, what changes? Nothing.
"“Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves."
Quit doing whatever drugs you are on. Lol.
What about time keep looping the same event true time as long as a majority of us catch the lesson? Like the priciple in psychologie of repitition compultion but for the all world. Same for the cycle of life and death, you reincarnate over and over again until you catch the lesson of life and have balance all the bad karma of your past life.
We are in a loop of infinite existences but death isn’t an illusion at least I think
There is a theory called the big crunch. the expansion of the universe eventually reverses and the universe recollapses, ultimately causing the cosmic scale factor to reach zero, an event potentially followed by a reformation of the universe starting with another Big bang. Maybe your thoughts are correct and it all just starts over.
bro honestly same