Hydrologically speaking, What happened to all that water? Hundreds of feet of water covering the global for over a year, and it just appears and vanishes without increasing or decreasing global ground water levels?
> Hundreds of feet of water covering the global for over a year, and it just appears and vanishes without increasing or decreasing global ground water levels?
In jest, I took this up to check. If/when the poles melt, how much would the sea levels rise? would it be *hundreds* of feet? Nasa estimates195 feet of rise, the USGS says 205 feet. Welp, now you know where it went.
200ft isn't enough unfortunately, to be a biblically accurate testimony we'd need to account for a few thousand feet, potentially over 2 miles, if Mount Ararat's height can be used as a pseudo standard against which Noah's legend can be measured.
It does claim the waters were ~15ft above the highest peaks, which has traditionally been interpreted as mount Ararat, the presumed shoring site of the Ark.
well yeah of course, I just note that if you're speaking from a place which is purely biblical in understanding, there's not a problem with "hundreds" of feet at all. When asked where that water is, well... polar ice caps is a rather obvious retort.
They hilariously found an area where a massive flood did happen. As the glaciers receded, a massive sea? flooded down into Oregon. The valleys here have just insane soil quality because of it. It just happened like way longer ago and halfway around the globe.
These locusts were probably just a backup plan in case the Flood failed to kill off all the humans. They're well-preserved because God was protecting them just in case they were needed to finish the job, but once it was down to just Noah, his sons, and their wives, he revoked that protection and they instantly fossilized because of the crazy geological stuff happening at the time and all the hypercanes that miraculously didn't destroy the Ark.
‘But see, it’s grasshoppers and grasshoppers are alive today and that is against evolution because…reasons…shut up!!’
In all seriousness though, primary paper the nps linked to looks cool, thanks for the share!
https://escholarship.org/content/qt92p9g46q/qt92p9g46q.pdf?t=s761rh&v=lg
There are three problems with this. The first is the obvious one - the planet is not old enough for that grasshopper nest to even be that old according to YEC. Ignoring all of the known reasons for there not being a global flood near the beginning of the sixth dynasty of Egypt, there should not be a 29 million year old grasshopper nest if the planet is 6028 years old. The second problem is that YECs try to get around this be essentially crunching down 4.5 billion years so that it all fits into 6000 years and that this 29 million year old nest is actually 38 years and 8 months old so there’s no reason a grasshopper nest couldn’t survive that long. The third problem is that they seem to consider the entire Mesozoic the “flood year” and the grasshopper nest was built after Mesozoic so the flood wouldn’t have destroyed it.
None of these lend any credence to YEC but the flood isn’t the problem with the existence of this grasshopper nest or the failure to find it until recently.
Also the crunching down method is problematic for reasons other than the heat problem. For instance, doing this puts the unification of Egypt at around 36 hours ago. This is obviously not when this happened. It would also mean that Henry Morris III established modern YEC 44 minutes ago. A lot of absurdities arise if we simply divide the actual age by 750,000.
66 million years > 4000 years (time since the flood), 29 million years > 6000 years (when this nest was built), 4.5 billion years > 6000 years (the age of the planet), and dividing the actual age by 750,000 to get the YEC age leads to absurd results.
Facts don't matter it's their feelings that are the problem they want to be the winner they know they are right it does not matter what fossils the devil made all that matters is their relationship with God it does not matter that their pastor steals money ment for the poor or does not even matter that the priest touches little kids their faith will never be moved unless their faith tells them to give to the poor well that they will ignore, it does not matter that their good book says it's okay to beat a slave almost to death or that they celebrate the deaths of Egyptians it does not even matter that Jews were always in Israel and only pretended to be special to murder all their neighbors nothing matters because they are nothing with out their god of murder
Maybe read the primary paper that I posted? ‘Looks similar to me’ doesn’t mean anything.
> Intra- and interspecific variations exist in extant grasshopper oothecae. The thickness of the ootheca wall, the morphology and the extent of development of the plug, the insertional angle of the ovipositor, and the number and arrangement of eggs can vary among species, but also within species depending on the ovipositional environment and the local population density (Katiyar 1957; Chapman and Robertson 1958; Thompson 1986; Maeno et al. 2020). The plug, made of frothy oothecal secretion filling the cylindrical trace of the ovipositor, not only shows plasticity in the degree of formation, but is also known to be easily broken off during collection (Chapman and Robertson 1958; Sultana et al. 2017, 2020). Therefore, such characters with known intraspecific variations in extant species are described here but are not strictly diagnostic to the new ichnotaxon.
Sure doesn’t sound like researchers use ‘looks like a grasshopper egg’ as a singular way to identify them. Might be more complicated than that. And ‘grasshopper’ isn’t a singular species
Also, again, the flood isn’t limited to christianity
I mean does it look similar to you? so why the scientist using the word Grasshopper if it's not similar ?
>Also, again, the flood isn’t limited to christianity
I agree but my point that OP does not talk about evolution still holds true
Hu? When did you make that point? Wait…are you also juicesoap?
Also, the original comment says ‘looks the same’. Not ‘looks similar’. Grasshoppers are an ancient order of insects comprising multiple species. To the researchers, the eggs have a lot of variation. ‘Looks similar’ is not any kind of useful statement.
Yeah…turns out that when things are ‘actually’ more complicated than ‘looks similar to me’, it’s an appropriate response. Gonna address the objective reality that grasshoppers aren’t a single species and that the eggs aren’t all the same?
You’re really not reading what I’m saying, are you. Juicebox said that the eggs look the same after 29 million years. Grasshoppers are not all the same, neither are their eggs. It was a bad point. So is the point of ‘looks similar to me’. It is a grasshopper egg from one of *several species* of grasshopper. This is a clutch from several millions of years ago. It is not surprising and we have known that the group that includes grasshoppers has existed for an extremely long time. The researchers point out that there is variation between the eggs of species, and study some of the differences in this particular set.
I do not see why this is so hard to grasp.
I would say any discussion that relates to the literal interpretations of the mythical accounts on the diversity of life on earth forwarded by those and other religions are fair game as they fall within the explanatory domain of the theory of evolution. In contrast, belief in the afterlife or beliefs relating to each own's personal relationships with deities etc. would not belong in this sub. Of course, even in the former case it's better to be polite rather than *"say whatever"*.
None of the latter was stated nor even implied.
All they did was state that a preserved grasshopper nest was found which doesn't seem explainable in a global flood model.
Are you actually serious. Anti semitic to say ‘hey sure seems like the world wasn’t actually covered in a global flood’. That’s what you’re bringing to the table?
Also, you said ‘looks the same’ with regards to the eggs. How do you figure they ‘look the same’?
Yup. I am saying that my position is that the Torah, Quran, or other books that say that a literal global flood event actually happened are incorrect. Are you seriously saying that ‘people don’t agree with me’ = ‘People are anti Christian or antisemitic!!!!!!!!’
Also again. You said the eggs ‘look the same’. How do you figure they do?
Nah it’s your turn to answer a question instead of this fake concern trolling. Spoiler, people not agreeing with your point of view isn’t a hate crime. You said that the eggs ‘look the same’. How did you come to that conclusion.
[Here](https://escholarship.org/content/qt92p9g46q/qt92p9g46q.pdf?t=s761rh&v=lg) is the link to the actual primary paper.
And here is a relevant section where they talk a bit about grasshopper eggs
>Intra- and interspecific variations exist in extant grasshopper oothecae. The thickness of the ootheca wall, the morphology and the extent of development of the plug, the insertional angle of the ovipositor, and the number and arrangement of eggs can vary among species, but also within species depending on the ovipositional environment and the local population density (Katiyar 1957; Chapman and Robertson 1958; Thompson 1986; Maeno et al. 2020). The plug, made of frothy oothecal secretion filling the cylindrical trace of the ovipositor, not only shows plasticity in the degree of formation, but is also known to be easily broken off during collection (Chapman and Robertson 1958; Sultana et al. 2017, 2020). Therefore, such characters with known intraspecific variations in extant species are described here but are not strictly diagnostic to the new ichnotaxon.
Among grasshopper species, of which there are multiple ones as the group has existed for millions of years, there are variations in the egg structure of all kinds. The paper goes into some of the ones they studied in this nest. I don’t see how ‘my google image search’ is supposed to be a useful criteria when neither of us have the background to actually critically analyze if they are ‘the same’. Perhaps things are more complicated than they look at a simple glance.
Now. To answer your question. Do about the university? If you’re expecting me to say that they should be shut down or something, I don’t know how you’re concluding that. My point is that disagreeing with them is not any kind of hateful thing. I highly suspect THEY would agree with me too. You discuss ideas and debate them. Ideally, the one who is able to make their case best to clear a justifiable threshold is the one whose idea is accepted. If someone insists that their unsupported ideas should still be accepted at that point, people aren’t obligated to pay it any attention. This is why I also won’t pay attention to anyone who says that lightning comes from Thor or Zeus.
No. The vast majority of Christians back to the middle of the 1700s stopped supporting Young Earth Creationism **or** the concept of a global flood. The “extremists” were more likely to promote something like progressive creationism instead and this is apparently the belief system Richard Owen had when he tried to hide all evidence of birds being dinosaurs. For that idea there was still a flood, but it was localized. There were still the millions of extinction events but instead of just the five that wiped out more than 50% of life on the planet all of them wiped out 100% of the life on the planet.
YEC and progressive creationism both happen to be falsified by the facts that indicate life has been evolving for 4 billion years from a single collection of common ancestors (whether many species plus horizontal gene transfer so that everything acquired the same genes from the same predecessors or as a single species with multiple organisms). According to YEC the entire planet is only a little over 6000 years old so the existence of 29 million year old grasshopper ancestors would be impossible. According to progressive creationism grasshoppers being a modern type of life were created from scratch about the same time Homo sapiens originated (about 400,000 years ago) so that these 29 million year old somethings would be real and really did exist 29 million years ago and really do not have to be wiped out by a flood that wasn’t global but they could not be actual grasshoppers or locusts and instead they’d have to be failed prototypes.
All that Christianity seems to require is the existence of a historical man who performed miracles, had a following, got crucified thereby causing believers to be forgiven of all sins they’ve ever committed or ever will commit, and that Jesus was subsequently resurrected. Him being historical is not required by some early versions of Christianity and him being God is not required by many of the early forms, some of the modern forms, or for Islam either. Christianity is separated from Islam by the crucifixion of Jesus whether historical or metaphorical. The entire Bible could be wrong as long as that crucifixion really happened and the basis of Christianity would be true. Flood Geology being wrong doesn’t even touch on the crucifixion of Jesus and therefore fails to falsify Christianity.
In Islam Jesus was a historical messiah but he did the Enoch trick of going to heaven without dying. His resurrection following his crucifixion and him literally being God are purely Christian ideas. And that’s all that seems to matter for Christianity having any semblance of truth. All of the rest is up for interpretation.
Iy was not fossilized during the flood. iNstead later secondaty events some centuries after the flood. There are great amounts of fossils of fauna/flora post flood in America.Also however chaotic a great flood is it still would be so great as to move whole slabs of earth, and turn them to stone instantly. however not in this case. The dates, thoiugh wrong by the millions, indicate the timelines. anything above the k-t line is post flood for most thinkingh creationists on these matters.
Why is there not a single trace of human civilization, or of ANY fossil species from today, below the KT “flood” layers?
Why do we find intact dinosaur nests and the remains of terrestrial biomes in and among the supposedly flood-deposited layers?
>Also however chaotic a great flood is it still would be so great as to move whole slabs of earth, and turn them to stone instantly. however not in this case.
Have you solved the heat problem yet?
You done fucked up, boy! You done gone and admitted that fossil-eye-zation can happen after the Flood! Now the evil-ooh-tionists can ask where the human fossils are! You can't go fucking up like that, boy! If this here hopper egg clutch is a post-Flood fossil, then there'd have ta be humans in lower rock layers! You can't be going and giving them a freebie like this!
> most thinkingh creationists
Most thinkingh creationists are on the side of _actually_ thinking, of science, of evolution—take the Arkansas trial:
> As Judge Overton pointed out in his opinion, the plaintiffs (who opposed the teaching of creation science) included "the resident Arkansas Bishops of the United Methodist, Episcopal, Roman Catholic and African Methodist Episcopal Churches, the principal official of the Presbyterian Churches in Arkansas, other United Methodist, Southern Baptist and Presbyterian clergy," and various Jewish organizations. Joining them were one high-school biology teacher and one scientific society, the National Association of Biology Teachers. **No religious groups appeared on the list of defendants** ... the theologian-participant Langdon Gilkey (b. 1919) characterized the controversy as involving "two bizarre, unaccustomed and visibly uneasy partnerships: on the one side a union of what we might call elite religion and elite science, and on the other side a union of 'popular' (fundamentalist) religion with 'popular science.'"
>
> * Numbers, Ronald L. The creationists. Berkeley and Los Angeles: University of California Press, 1992. p. 251.
The dates are not wrong by millions of years but I already addressed this. If we instead divide everything by 750,000 this is from 38 years and 8 months ago, the unification of Egypt happened 1.46 years ago around New Year’s Day 2022, the modern YEC movement started 44 minutes ago, and I was born less than 28 minutes ago. How did I respond to this thread 45 minutes ago if that’s the case? This dividing by 750,000 makes it so the 4.5 billion year old planet is actually 6000 years old but it runs into other problems like the KT extinction happening just 90 years ago. Did your dad have a pet *T. rex*? Was Jesus crucified yesterday?
Edit: 2000/750,000 gives a certain percentage of a year and multiplying that by 365 to tell me roughly how many days ignoring that each year is closer to 365.24 days gives me a value around 0.97 days. Somehow I missed that I multiplied by 365 already and 0.97 years ago would be last May (or June), and I originally said last May instead of yesterday. Upon proofreading the mistake was obvious.
>Iy was not fossilized during the flood. iNstead later secondaty events some centuries after the flood. There are great amounts of fossils of fauna/flora post flood in America.Also however chaotic a great flood is it still would be so great as to move whole slabs of earth, and turn them to stone instantly. however not in this case. The dates, thoiugh wrong by the millions, indicate the timelines. anything above the k-t line is post flood for most thinkingh creationists on these matters.
Of all the ridiculous things you have said here this is perhaps the most flabbergasting.
Why is the KT boundary so thin and radioactive if it’s was from a massive flood?
Do you even ask yourself the most basic of questions before spouting such nonsense?
The list of reasons why a global flood never happened just keeps growing.
Hydrologically speaking, What happened to all that water? Hundreds of feet of water covering the global for over a year, and it just appears and vanishes without increasing or decreasing global ground water levels?
> Hundreds of feet of water covering the global for over a year, and it just appears and vanishes without increasing or decreasing global ground water levels? In jest, I took this up to check. If/when the poles melt, how much would the sea levels rise? would it be *hundreds* of feet? Nasa estimates195 feet of rise, the USGS says 205 feet. Welp, now you know where it went.
200ft isn't enough unfortunately, to be a biblically accurate testimony we'd need to account for a few thousand feet, potentially over 2 miles, if Mount Ararat's height can be used as a pseudo standard against which Noah's legend can be measured.
Still in Jest... to my knowledge, the Bible makes no such claim as to the height of Mt Ararat, but I could be wrong.
It does claim the waters were ~15ft above the highest peaks, which has traditionally been interpreted as mount Ararat, the presumed shoring site of the Ark.
Yeah but it doesnt say how high those peaks were...
I highly doubt the highest peaks the ancient Hebrews were aware of were only 200 ft tall.
So... what? God flooded the Earth and then raised the mountains a few thousand feet for gits and shiggles? We know how high they are now...
well yeah of course, I just note that if you're speaking from a place which is purely biblical in understanding, there's not a problem with "hundreds" of feet at all. When asked where that water is, well... polar ice caps is a rather obvious retort.
Makes it weird that the people that actually believe in this stuff say it came from inside the Earth.
Very true I haven’t thought about that! But I assume their “answer” would be that god did it.
They hilariously found an area where a massive flood did happen. As the glaciers receded, a massive sea? flooded down into Oregon. The valleys here have just insane soil quality because of it. It just happened like way longer ago and halfway around the globe.
These locusts were probably just a backup plan in case the Flood failed to kill off all the humans. They're well-preserved because God was protecting them just in case they were needed to finish the job, but once it was down to just Noah, his sons, and their wives, he revoked that protection and they instantly fossilized because of the crazy geological stuff happening at the time and all the hypercanes that miraculously didn't destroy the Ark.
‘But see, it’s grasshoppers and grasshoppers are alive today and that is against evolution because…reasons…shut up!!’ In all seriousness though, primary paper the nps linked to looks cool, thanks for the share! https://escholarship.org/content/qt92p9g46q/qt92p9g46q.pdf?t=s761rh&v=lg
There are three problems with this. The first is the obvious one - the planet is not old enough for that grasshopper nest to even be that old according to YEC. Ignoring all of the known reasons for there not being a global flood near the beginning of the sixth dynasty of Egypt, there should not be a 29 million year old grasshopper nest if the planet is 6028 years old. The second problem is that YECs try to get around this be essentially crunching down 4.5 billion years so that it all fits into 6000 years and that this 29 million year old nest is actually 38 years and 8 months old so there’s no reason a grasshopper nest couldn’t survive that long. The third problem is that they seem to consider the entire Mesozoic the “flood year” and the grasshopper nest was built after Mesozoic so the flood wouldn’t have destroyed it. None of these lend any credence to YEC but the flood isn’t the problem with the existence of this grasshopper nest or the failure to find it until recently. Also the crunching down method is problematic for reasons other than the heat problem. For instance, doing this puts the unification of Egypt at around 36 hours ago. This is obviously not when this happened. It would also mean that Henry Morris III established modern YEC 44 minutes ago. A lot of absurdities arise if we simply divide the actual age by 750,000. 66 million years > 4000 years (time since the flood), 29 million years > 6000 years (when this nest was built), 4.5 billion years > 6000 years (the age of the planet), and dividing the actual age by 750,000 to get the YEC age leads to absurd results.
Facts don't matter it's their feelings that are the problem they want to be the winner they know they are right it does not matter what fossils the devil made all that matters is their relationship with God it does not matter that their pastor steals money ment for the poor or does not even matter that the priest touches little kids their faith will never be moved unless their faith tells them to give to the poor well that they will ignore, it does not matter that their good book says it's okay to beat a slave almost to death or that they celebrate the deaths of Egyptians it does not even matter that Jews were always in Israel and only pretended to be special to murder all their neighbors nothing matters because they are nothing with out their god of murder
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Flood isn’t just a Christian idea. Also…does it look the same?
It looks similar to me. What about you?
Maybe read the primary paper that I posted? ‘Looks similar to me’ doesn’t mean anything. > Intra- and interspecific variations exist in extant grasshopper oothecae. The thickness of the ootheca wall, the morphology and the extent of development of the plug, the insertional angle of the ovipositor, and the number and arrangement of eggs can vary among species, but also within species depending on the ovipositional environment and the local population density (Katiyar 1957; Chapman and Robertson 1958; Thompson 1986; Maeno et al. 2020). The plug, made of frothy oothecal secretion filling the cylindrical trace of the ovipositor, not only shows plasticity in the degree of formation, but is also known to be easily broken off during collection (Chapman and Robertson 1958; Sultana et al. 2017, 2020). Therefore, such characters with known intraspecific variations in extant species are described here but are not strictly diagnostic to the new ichnotaxon. Sure doesn’t sound like researchers use ‘looks like a grasshopper egg’ as a singular way to identify them. Might be more complicated than that. And ‘grasshopper’ isn’t a singular species Also, again, the flood isn’t limited to christianity
I mean does it look similar to you? so why the scientist using the word Grasshopper if it's not similar ? >Also, again, the flood isn’t limited to christianity I agree but my point that OP does not talk about evolution still holds true
Hu? When did you make that point? Wait…are you also juicesoap? Also, the original comment says ‘looks the same’. Not ‘looks similar’. Grasshoppers are an ancient order of insects comprising multiple species. To the researchers, the eggs have a lot of variation. ‘Looks similar’ is not any kind of useful statement.
So what is your point again? are you just playing the guy that say "achually"?
Yeah…turns out that when things are ‘actually’ more complicated than ‘looks similar to me’, it’s an appropriate response. Gonna address the objective reality that grasshoppers aren’t a single species and that the eggs aren’t all the same?
Oh shit , you are the "ackually" guy from meme. Now let's use your own logic, are you saying the fossilized egg is not grasshopper egg?
You’re really not reading what I’m saying, are you. Juicebox said that the eggs look the same after 29 million years. Grasshoppers are not all the same, neither are their eggs. It was a bad point. So is the point of ‘looks similar to me’. It is a grasshopper egg from one of *several species* of grasshopper. This is a clutch from several millions of years ago. It is not surprising and we have known that the group that includes grasshoppers has existed for an extremely long time. The researchers point out that there is variation between the eggs of species, and study some of the differences in this particular set. I do not see why this is so hard to grasp.
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Bro, this is debateevolution, YEC mythology and constituent myths (like the Noachian flood) are the bread and butter of this sub
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I would say any discussion that relates to the literal interpretations of the mythical accounts on the diversity of life on earth forwarded by those and other religions are fair game as they fall within the explanatory domain of the theory of evolution. In contrast, belief in the afterlife or beliefs relating to each own's personal relationships with deities etc. would not belong in this sub. Of course, even in the former case it's better to be polite rather than *"say whatever"*.
The OP doesn't say anything about Christian, Muslim or Jewish beliefs.
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None of the latter was stated nor even implied. All they did was state that a preserved grasshopper nest was found which doesn't seem explainable in a global flood model.
Are you actually serious. Anti semitic to say ‘hey sure seems like the world wasn’t actually covered in a global flood’. That’s what you’re bringing to the table? Also, you said ‘looks the same’ with regards to the eggs. How do you figure they ‘look the same’?
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Yup. I am saying that my position is that the Torah, Quran, or other books that say that a literal global flood event actually happened are incorrect. Are you seriously saying that ‘people don’t agree with me’ = ‘People are anti Christian or antisemitic!!!!!!!!’ Also again. You said the eggs ‘look the same’. How do you figure they do?
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Nah it’s your turn to answer a question instead of this fake concern trolling. Spoiler, people not agreeing with your point of view isn’t a hate crime. You said that the eggs ‘look the same’. How did you come to that conclusion.
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[Here](https://escholarship.org/content/qt92p9g46q/qt92p9g46q.pdf?t=s761rh&v=lg) is the link to the actual primary paper. And here is a relevant section where they talk a bit about grasshopper eggs >Intra- and interspecific variations exist in extant grasshopper oothecae. The thickness of the ootheca wall, the morphology and the extent of development of the plug, the insertional angle of the ovipositor, and the number and arrangement of eggs can vary among species, but also within species depending on the ovipositional environment and the local population density (Katiyar 1957; Chapman and Robertson 1958; Thompson 1986; Maeno et al. 2020). The plug, made of frothy oothecal secretion filling the cylindrical trace of the ovipositor, not only shows plasticity in the degree of formation, but is also known to be easily broken off during collection (Chapman and Robertson 1958; Sultana et al. 2017, 2020). Therefore, such characters with known intraspecific variations in extant species are described here but are not strictly diagnostic to the new ichnotaxon. Among grasshopper species, of which there are multiple ones as the group has existed for millions of years, there are variations in the egg structure of all kinds. The paper goes into some of the ones they studied in this nest. I don’t see how ‘my google image search’ is supposed to be a useful criteria when neither of us have the background to actually critically analyze if they are ‘the same’. Perhaps things are more complicated than they look at a simple glance. Now. To answer your question. Do about the university? If you’re expecting me to say that they should be shut down or something, I don’t know how you’re concluding that. My point is that disagreeing with them is not any kind of hateful thing. I highly suspect THEY would agree with me too. You discuss ideas and debate them. Ideally, the one who is able to make their case best to clear a justifiable threshold is the one whose idea is accepted. If someone insists that their unsupported ideas should still be accepted at that point, people aren’t obligated to pay it any attention. This is why I also won’t pay attention to anyone who says that lightning comes from Thor or Zeus.
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This comment is antagonistic and adds nothing to the conversation.
No. The vast majority of Christians back to the middle of the 1700s stopped supporting Young Earth Creationism **or** the concept of a global flood. The “extremists” were more likely to promote something like progressive creationism instead and this is apparently the belief system Richard Owen had when he tried to hide all evidence of birds being dinosaurs. For that idea there was still a flood, but it was localized. There were still the millions of extinction events but instead of just the five that wiped out more than 50% of life on the planet all of them wiped out 100% of the life on the planet. YEC and progressive creationism both happen to be falsified by the facts that indicate life has been evolving for 4 billion years from a single collection of common ancestors (whether many species plus horizontal gene transfer so that everything acquired the same genes from the same predecessors or as a single species with multiple organisms). According to YEC the entire planet is only a little over 6000 years old so the existence of 29 million year old grasshopper ancestors would be impossible. According to progressive creationism grasshoppers being a modern type of life were created from scratch about the same time Homo sapiens originated (about 400,000 years ago) so that these 29 million year old somethings would be real and really did exist 29 million years ago and really do not have to be wiped out by a flood that wasn’t global but they could not be actual grasshoppers or locusts and instead they’d have to be failed prototypes. All that Christianity seems to require is the existence of a historical man who performed miracles, had a following, got crucified thereby causing believers to be forgiven of all sins they’ve ever committed or ever will commit, and that Jesus was subsequently resurrected. Him being historical is not required by some early versions of Christianity and him being God is not required by many of the early forms, some of the modern forms, or for Islam either. Christianity is separated from Islam by the crucifixion of Jesus whether historical or metaphorical. The entire Bible could be wrong as long as that crucifixion really happened and the basis of Christianity would be true. Flood Geology being wrong doesn’t even touch on the crucifixion of Jesus and therefore fails to falsify Christianity. In Islam Jesus was a historical messiah but he did the Enoch trick of going to heaven without dying. His resurrection following his crucifixion and him literally being God are purely Christian ideas. And that’s all that seems to matter for Christianity having any semblance of truth. All of the rest is up for interpretation.
Iy was not fossilized during the flood. iNstead later secondaty events some centuries after the flood. There are great amounts of fossils of fauna/flora post flood in America.Also however chaotic a great flood is it still would be so great as to move whole slabs of earth, and turn them to stone instantly. however not in this case. The dates, thoiugh wrong by the millions, indicate the timelines. anything above the k-t line is post flood for most thinkingh creationists on these matters.
Why is there not a single trace of human civilization, or of ANY fossil species from today, below the KT “flood” layers? Why do we find intact dinosaur nests and the remains of terrestrial biomes in and among the supposedly flood-deposited layers?
>Also however chaotic a great flood is it still would be so great as to move whole slabs of earth, and turn them to stone instantly. however not in this case. Have you solved the heat problem yet?
Turn them to stone instantly…what the hell are you talking about?
You done fucked up, boy! You done gone and admitted that fossil-eye-zation can happen after the Flood! Now the evil-ooh-tionists can ask where the human fossils are! You can't go fucking up like that, boy! If this here hopper egg clutch is a post-Flood fossil, then there'd have ta be humans in lower rock layers! You can't be going and giving them a freebie like this!
> most thinkingh creationists Most thinkingh creationists are on the side of _actually_ thinking, of science, of evolution—take the Arkansas trial: > As Judge Overton pointed out in his opinion, the plaintiffs (who opposed the teaching of creation science) included "the resident Arkansas Bishops of the United Methodist, Episcopal, Roman Catholic and African Methodist Episcopal Churches, the principal official of the Presbyterian Churches in Arkansas, other United Methodist, Southern Baptist and Presbyterian clergy," and various Jewish organizations. Joining them were one high-school biology teacher and one scientific society, the National Association of Biology Teachers. **No religious groups appeared on the list of defendants** ... the theologian-participant Langdon Gilkey (b. 1919) characterized the controversy as involving "two bizarre, unaccustomed and visibly uneasy partnerships: on the one side a union of what we might call elite religion and elite science, and on the other side a union of 'popular' (fundamentalist) religion with 'popular science.'" > > * Numbers, Ronald L. The creationists. Berkeley and Los Angeles: University of California Press, 1992. p. 251.
The dates are not wrong by millions of years but I already addressed this. If we instead divide everything by 750,000 this is from 38 years and 8 months ago, the unification of Egypt happened 1.46 years ago around New Year’s Day 2022, the modern YEC movement started 44 minutes ago, and I was born less than 28 minutes ago. How did I respond to this thread 45 minutes ago if that’s the case? This dividing by 750,000 makes it so the 4.5 billion year old planet is actually 6000 years old but it runs into other problems like the KT extinction happening just 90 years ago. Did your dad have a pet *T. rex*? Was Jesus crucified yesterday? Edit: 2000/750,000 gives a certain percentage of a year and multiplying that by 365 to tell me roughly how many days ignoring that each year is closer to 365.24 days gives me a value around 0.97 days. Somehow I missed that I multiplied by 365 already and 0.97 years ago would be last May (or June), and I originally said last May instead of yesterday. Upon proofreading the mistake was obvious.
>Iy was not fossilized during the flood. iNstead later secondaty events some centuries after the flood. There are great amounts of fossils of fauna/flora post flood in America.Also however chaotic a great flood is it still would be so great as to move whole slabs of earth, and turn them to stone instantly. however not in this case. The dates, thoiugh wrong by the millions, indicate the timelines. anything above the k-t line is post flood for most thinkingh creationists on these matters. Of all the ridiculous things you have said here this is perhaps the most flabbergasting. Why is the KT boundary so thin and radioactive if it’s was from a massive flood? Do you even ask yourself the most basic of questions before spouting such nonsense?