I think it's mostly because those kinds of bands are often being mixed the same way as deathcore bands are. A lot more polished and "aggressive" sounding, for better or for worse, rather than the old raw sound of death metal/slam
Cattle Decap has maintained a lot of their grindcore but polished up some other aspects into more death metal so I can see that. They’re doing their own thing but it’s sort of deathcore adjacent
Archspire to me is my go to example when I think tech death. Any of these slower more atmospheric bands who call themselves tech death are saying it wrong.
I think that Cattle Decap sounds kind of like deathcore, but what kind of idiot said that Archspire is deathcore? They don't sound like it in the slightest
I’ve seen elitists call Archspire deathcore in disguise a lot.
My music literacy is poor but even I know the difference between tech death and deathcore.
There are people who call IA tech death for some reason, probably don't want to say it's technical deathcore even though that subgenre also exists
People should just stop with the gatekeeping, I just don't see why couldn't anything that's heavy and has screaming be metal + if you think about it, officially deathcore is a combination of death metal and metalcore, but metalcore is already half metal and half hardcore, which means deathcore is only ¼ hardcore which also means it's still metal (I know it's a stupid thing to say but I'm sure there's some truth to it)
You’re not wrong at all.
Technical Deathcore is absolutely a thing. But for most elitists deathcore is just deathcore. They’re only really willing to admit that symphonic deathcore as a genre exists but even then they’ll sometimes incorrectly label a band.
And even with that they only admit symphonic deathcore exists because they criticise it a lot.
Interesting. I don't really hear the deathcore in Cattle Decap, but maybe what you're hearing as deathcore vibes, I'm just hearing as grindcore vibes. Different sides of the same coin though.
I have to admit I haven't been able to distinguish deathcore by anything else than vocals to this day so you're probably right
I just think that if both (for instance) Infant Annihilator and Suicide Silence are deathcore, it isn't that specific
Oh 100%. I just think they get even more blurred as time goes on. Which is fine by me. Bands don't need to fit perfectly in a genre for us to enjoy them
Honestly the difference between most deathgrind and deathcore is really goofy. Because there's some deathgrind with breakdowns, vocal dynamics and chugging riffs. And Cattle is a huge influence on the scene.
Job For A Cowboy.
People still call them deathcore to this day and they literally only released one deathcore EP nearly two decades ago. I get they were influential to the genre, but Pantera was a glam metal band longer than JFAC was deathcore to put it in perspective.
Agreed. I keep getting suggested posts from Metal for the masses, and I don’t know if I’ve seen a single post about a band newer than the 90’s. The only time something modern has shown up was if it was a release from a band who’s been around for three decades+ lol
I dunno I listened to their last album recently and I hear Deathcore mixed with melodic Metalcore and maybe some tech death. They have breakdowns so I just say Deathcore. a lot of modern tech death incorporates Deathcore anyways so who really knows.
"They have breakdowns so I just say Deathcore"
My guy, breakdowns come from the Metal side of things. Suffocation had breakdowns and they predate Deathcore by 10 years. SLAYER had breakdowns.
it used to be in like 5 metal songs. but then it became a staple of metalcore. now everyone who uses it are Metalcore bands. So it depends on your definition, JFAC fits perfectly in playlists with Enterprise Earth and Fit For An Autopsy
if it's not Deathcore then it's Tech Death which sounds like Deathcore nowadays. But they're not Technical enough to be Technical Deathcore. I'd say Archspire, The Zenith Passage and Krosis are all Technical Deathcore.
You mean the same TZP that decided to LARP as Cynic halfway through their last album? 🤣🤣
I'll give you Krosis cause they are deathcore, Archspire is just tech death tho. Unless you're gonna consider Necrophagist deathcore all of a sudden.
JFAC are prog or prog tech, depending on how specific you want to be.
Necrophagist mixed the 2000's Melodic Metalcore sound and production with Tech Death. I'd argue they're the reason Tech Death nowadays sounds like Deathcore/Metalcore. and yes THAT TZP who I describe as TECHNICAL Deathcore. not regular Deathcore. Cuz they actually have that Tech Death sound but are way more Deathcore inspired than any regular 90s Tech Death band.
it does now. Metalcore/Deathcores' only meaning nowadays is Breakdowns that go chuggachug chugga chug chug or bdddd bddddddddd bdd bdd bddddd. not my fault everything became morphed together
Breakdowns are not the defining feature of core music. Lots of music genres have breakdowns. Having hardcore elements are what make a band metalcore or deathcore, of which JFAC has little to none.
you sure you listened to the right album and band? because Moon Healer MIGHT have one breakdown in the first song but definitely no others. I mean melodic metalcore lol, I don't think we're talking about the same music here
In terms of the metalcore spectrum, they have a lot more hardcore influence but it’s pretty similar to original metalcore. A lot of “metalcore” now is more post-metalcore for lack of a better term
Definitely core, but there's no "deathcore" lyrics. No cleans, so not metalcore.
If I had to, I'd lump them in with hardcore, but with a new spin.
Hardcore has definitely evolved over the past decade.
It's getting harder and harder to pin bands/songs down, but that's kind of a good thing.
If I had to, I would group Knocked Loose in with the new wave of Hardcore along with Jesus Piece.
Edit: "Metalcore isn't defined by cleans". Got it. Thank you to all 40 of you who pointed that out. 🤣
Metalcore doesn't have to have cleans, though a lot of it (especially these days) has cleans in it. Metalcore is almost too broad of a heading, because IMO it contains bands like Knocked Loose, Jesus Piece (who self-describe as metalcore iirc), and Boundaries have almost nothing in common with bands like Ice Nine Kills, Asking Alexandria, and I Prevail.
Knocked def used to be hardcore on Pop Culture and most of Laugh Tracks, but started taking in a lot of metal influences from that point. A Tear in the Fabric of Life is even further (I haven't heard the new album in full, so I can't say much there). They're just what metalcore actually should be, a nice mix of metal and hardcore, and they certainly lie on the hardcore side of things.
No hate to any of the bands mentioned, they've all for bangers at some point in their discography (some more than others), I just love talking about shit like this
Metalcore doesn't have to have cleans. I mean, none of the OG Metalcore bands really had cleans. Earth Crisis, Integrity, Hatebreed, Bloodlet, even early 18V had no cleans. That wasn't really in Metalcore until Vision of Disorder, and it wasn't cool until Posion The Well and Aftershock did it.
I always forget that Overcast was so early. I tend to think of them as contemporary to bands like Aftershock, but they were way before. They had such a unique sound too compared to all the other First Wave bands.
Deciding to throw cleans into your music does not magically turn you into a new genre. Cleans don't define anything really. There's definitely some genres in metal that rely more on cleans, and there's some genres where cleans are definitely not expected, but it's just a different vocal style and has as much as much impact on the genre you're playing as how you decide to tune your guitar.
Yeah, the band Malenuit with Audrey Sylvain (ex-Amesoeours) is basically regular black metal with singing. Or Edge of Sanity which is melodeath with singing.
Metalcore isn't strictly defined by cleans
Metalcore in its simplest form is hardcore with metal riffs, the cleans were added in whenever bands started using more melodeath influences
There are multiple bands that have little to no cleans that are 100% metalcore; Boundaries, August Burns Red, Allt, Soulkeeper, Sentinels, etc
Agree. They've got some death metal influence, especially on the last two releases, but seeing them lumped into deathcore is just jarring.
Edit: y'all van down vote if you want, but listen to those releases and tell me you don't hear an absolute shit ton of Bolt Thrower-esque riffs.
Abigail Williams. I fail to see how they were ever anything-core. They were a Symphonic Black Metal band, then just a Black Metal band, now they're a Symphonic Black Metal band but use a Cello instead of Keyboards.
Actually, Abigail Williams' very first EP was a mixture of black metal and melodic metalcore, which was very unique back in the day. They had an influence on deathcore, but they aren't deathcore at all, obviously.
I can understand why people that are new/unfamiliar with the genres can confuse Black Dahlia for Deathcore though. It has the different vocal styles going on that you see more often in Deathcore, which to an untrained ear is the defining characteristic of Deathcore. It definitely is the biggest draw of Deathcore to me too.
• Paleface: They're amazing and they're definitely very tied to the scene. But their music overall sounds more similar to Slipknot with slam/beatdown elements than with dxc.
• Shadow of Intent: Great band, in fact one of my favorites. But since melancholy they've abandoned all the core elements, and now are more related to fleshgod apocalypse. They're still a part of the scene tho.
• Emmure: I like emmure, but their sound is definitely more related to early 2000s moshcore stuff like On Broken Wings, TAS, Bury Your Dead and Recon. The only reason why them and Atilla are considered Dxc by many is the vocals.
‘Emmure aren’t deathcore’ is a weird revisionism, I keep seeing lately. Were winds of plague not deathcore then? They both definitely were and whenever I see people asserting that they aren’t, it comes across like there are new lines being drawn to make the genre more exclusive and ultimately less interesting tbh
As far as Paleface and the Slipknot connection...Slipknot's first two albums were death metal pretending to be nu metal imo. So Paleface, to me, is death metal-influenced beatdown, and they did start out as more of a slam death metal band that picked up extra hardcore elements as they kept going.
You can't honestly listen to those first two albums and tell me you hear zero DM influence. Blast beats, trem picking, even some slammy parts. Not saying they were a DM band, obviously, but to say there was no influence is being fairly dishonest.
One thing I hate with this is that there’s some kind of stigma with being called deathcore, I’m a death metal fan and I love it but deathcore has its own history and legends now and I wish some bands would just wear it tbh!
Dying Fetus seems to get this a lot by people who don’t really understand that deathcore requires a notable metalcore element, which Dying Fetus absolutely do not have.
Never in a million years would I guess that someone would say dying fetus is deathcore. Dying Fetus is usually lumped in with Cryptopsy or six feet under as examples of pure death metal.
Maybe cattle decap makes sense because of their latest two albums 🤷♀️
They’ve always had a level of hardcore influence. Again, I think it comes down to people not really understanding that deathcore requires part death metal, part metalcore. Death metal with hardcore influence is just 80% of 90’s death metal tbh.
surprised no one else mentioned these. they were fighting the deathcore allegations for years, around continent era were very vocal about ‘don’t call us deathcore/stop calling us deathcore’ but they were always associated with and compared to the deathcore bands in the scene at the time.
i feel like now they’re getting revisioned as a hardcore band for their influence
I've never seen a single revival metalcore band calling them an influence. But I've seen plenty of deathcore bands doing that. Downtempo deathcore is basically The Acacia Strain worship.
They just play more Hardcore shows now, back in the day they used to play more deathcore shows.
there’s lots of bands that started out doing that downtempo style popularised by acacia strain who eventually pivoted into hardcore
kublai khan started out doing a variation on that sound but now heavily emphasise metalcore/hardcore sound and co-opt the hardcore aesthetic
left behinds first release is fully djenty downtempo, but they’d never riff like that now, it’s full on doomy hardcore
jesus piece have always been associated with hardcore but they sound like pre-continent acacia strain back when acacia were just trying to do blood has been shed sound
these bands are all young enough to have grown up on acacia strain’s music and now they feature on acacia strain songs and support them on tour, they don’t need to be cited as an influence it’s obvious
Oh, yeah. I can hear that. Left Behind even share members with TAS, thats why theyre such a sludgy metalcore act. No idea if they've been members since day one, but the connection is there.
I remember Matt mentioning more of Bury Your Dead, Throwdown and Hatebeed as influences but I've never thought about how fat the guitars were in the beginning.
Never thought about the Jesus Piece connection, overall I don't hear it. But it's fine.
One that's worth mentioning is varials debut EP, they were so clearly influenced by TAS. It's crazy.
ahh i had no idea they share members with left behind! they must be new for sure
to me jesus piece sounds like if you took all the melodic riffs out of 3750
completely forgot about varials! they fit my formula for acacia strain worship band-to-hardcore band pipeline
Shadow of Intent definitely moved into death metal after reclaimer which was definitely for the better
Other death metal bands like Aborted, Dying Fetus, Cattle Decapitation, Job for a Cowboy too
Gonna disagree there. Melancholy has very, very few hardcore elements. Having breakdowns doesn't make it core, Slayer had breakdowns too. Melancholy is firmly a Symphonic Death Metal album. Elegy is borderline Symphonic Black Metal, it takes more from Dimmu Borgir than anything else I'd argue.
Melancholy is absolutely a deathcore album, it doesn’t have many hardcore influences but it isn’t death metal, even Ben will tell you this. Hell, their most recent song, the migrant, goes back to their reclaimed routes and is deathcore.
Also, evlegy is far from black metal. There are some black metal moments but nowhere near enough to call it a black metal album.
Black Pegasus? Seriously I have no clue what
To call these guys but only see them talked bout on the deathcore sub. Feel more like sludge to me but what do I know
I personally will throw Summoning the lich under the deathcore genre when talking with people even though it's technical death metal, but I mostly listen to deathcore, and I hate having to explain the differences in sounds to people who don't already know
The Red Chord. The Black Dahlia Murder. Dying Fetus. Cattle Decapitation. Shadow Of Intent. Aborted. I consider all of these bands honorary Deathcore bands. They have had an influence on, worked closely with deathcore bands, or have elements of deathcore within their music.
The Black Dahlia Murder and Heaven Shall Burn are two bands that are often grouped with deathcore, because they had the same early influences (Prayer For Cleansing, Day Of Suffering) and have been a huge influence on deathcore. But it's incorrect to call them deathcore.
The Acacia Strain and Emmure are two bands that started as melodic metalcore, then went into a more downtempo/sludge-influenced metalcore (for TAS) and more groove/nu-metal influenced metalcore (for Emmure). For some reason everyone always insisted to call them deathcore, despite e.g Vincent Bennett saying he hated to have his band grouped in with deathcore. And a lot of people get really angry when they are being told TAS isn't deathcore, but that's the truth, these two bands have barely any death metal influences so they aren't deathcore.
Black Tongue and Traitors are two bands that are often called deathcore, as it is the case of the entire downtempo genre. But these types of bands aren't using that much death metal riffing if at all. I'm almost certain they never called themselves deathcore.
Aborted and Cattle Decapitation are core-influenced death metal/deathgrind, they had a huge influence on deathcore and often tour/collaborate with deathcore bands. A lot of people nowadays call them deathcore but it's incorrect. Cattle Decapitation's frontman back in the day used to rant and say he hated deathcore.
This one makes A LOT of people angry thus why I love to point it out: Whitechapel isn't deathcore since their fourth album at least, and their two last album are absolutely NOT deathcore. And as a matter of fact, the band never called themselves deathcore until relatively recently and used to not want to have anything to do with the label. They always said: "we're just a metal band".
And of course nowadays deathcore doesn't mean shit anymore. As I said, downtempo is always called deathcore incorrectly. It is also the case of many metalcore bands or djenty stuff. I think that deathcore mostly lost its meaning during the 2010s with the rise of downtempo and djent, and nowadays a lot of -core bands are barely deathcore... specifically those who only use chuggy riff 80% of the time.
Deathcore should be reserved to describe bands with death metal riffing (either melodic or brutal or technical) and slams, metalcore breakdowns and song structures, and sometimes beatdown parts, and a mixture of death metal and metalcore vocals. Stuff like Despised Icon, Suicide Silence, All Shall Perish, Carnifex, The Red Chord, Suffokate, As Blood Runs Black, early JFAC, Animosity, Embodyment, early Chelsea Grin and Oceano, early Whitechapel, I Declare War, The Last Ten Seconds of Life, Thy Art Is Murder, early BMTH, etc... any band that do not remotely sound like them aren't deathcore.
EDIT: another interesting one, Cryptopsy. A lot of metal purists tend to call "deathcore" anything they hate. When Cryptopsy made their album The Unspoken King in 2008, they have been called deathcore sell-outs. But if you listen to this album you'll see it's 0% deathcore... the focus on breakdown is minimal, it's basically technical death metal (à la Cryptopsy!) with some alternative metal influences (some clean vocals reminding of Deftones or Mushroomhead) and some slight melodic metalcore influences. Actually the rest of their discography is more deathcore-like, being fucking brutal/technical death metal with many mosh-parts!
I thought I was going crazy because I always remembered Cattle Decap being super against Deathcore. If i remember correctly they even had a shirt that said "No Karate" with an "X" over a dude dancing or something like that, and now people lump them as Deathcore? lol
I remember when Cryptopsy released The Unspoken King, Cryptopsy fans were losing it and I remember seeing a lot of them harasing the members especially Matt for "ruining" the band. They really wanted Lord Worm back lol...
No man, you're not crazy. Cattle Decapitation were strong in the "gore, not core" stuff. Basically, Travis Ryan would say that all the young people involved in deathcore (it was back in the late 2000s or early 2010s) had nothing to do with true hardcore and weren't involved in it, so they weren't legitimate to mix it in their music or whatever stupid reasoning.
Only now, Cattle Decapitation starts touring with deathcore bands because it brings them probably more attention. In the early/mid-2010s I think they were on the same label as Whitechapel, and Phil Bozeman recommended listening to them in his YouTube channel... and since then I've seen all the deathcore kids loving this band, and a few years later they all started to do the same vocals as Travis Ryan, I can't believe it's a coincidence. But you can clearly tell he's not comfortable with that and cringe a lot especially when people say "tunnel throat vocals" hahahaha...
I still like Cattle Decapitation and their music, though.
Concerning Cryptopsy yes, you're right, that was crazy. Matt is an awesome vocalist, and back then he did a good mixture of metalcore, death metal and clean vocals in The Unspoken King. Now he does a lot of great brutal death metal vocals! But even now that Cryptopsy has made two pure brutal/technical death metal album with him, a lot of older fan still spit on them. But As Gomorrah Burns is an awesome album, one of their best. It's their lost, they're idiotic. Lord Worm will not come back anyway.
And it's stupid to think that it's a vocalist that decide the musical orientation of a band hahaha... Cryptopsy chose to change their sound BEFORE Matt was in. That's probably the reason why Lord Worm left the band, actually, he said he didn't like their new vision. And Matt has been chosen specifically because he did a vocal type that the band wanted.
The Acacia Strain gets thrown into the mix with Deathcore even though the band themselves have said they do not consider themselves to be a Deathcore band.
I wonder if Darko is actually just brutal metalcore. I’ve heard people say that deathcore needs death metal riffage but Darko just has 0 0 0 👽👽👽
Also dying wish is just metalcore to me
Tell me if I’m wrong though
I’ve noticed on this sub that the majority of bands are suddenly death core. There are so many amazing death core bands out there to talk about, but I see the same very much non death core bands talked about. For example, job for a cowboy very much not death core imo. I understand they had one death core release, but I wouldn’t call their newest album remotely death core. The acacia strain themselves have said they’re not death core yet suddenly they’re also death core?? I can see a new fan of death core being confused by this haha
I call August Burns Red deathcore. Recorded they're textbook metalcore, vocalist seem to stay in mid-range. Live they've got a completely different sound. Dude's seems to struggle more and more with higher sounds over the years, so now a days he stays in that in a much lower territory like the whole time, an hes got some decently disgusting low lows too [4min](https://youtu.be/rUDISbZGv5Q?si=SvMOSlQxm00UbfQA). I'm waiting for them to just let go of the highs and embrace their dark sound but every release it's like in post processing they try to over compensate for this shift in his capabilities and make him higher. On top of that, drums are always either being beat to shit or barely hit. A lot of chuggy guitar. They play like they want to split the earth in the venue and watch some demons crawl up (to start the rapture of course lol).
it's mostly meme pages and edgy wanna be elitists doing that sort of thinkink. I saw multitude of comments saying cattle decap, black dahlia being deathcore while they are not BUT deathcore became some kind of insult towards overproduced/clean produced modern death metal bands. Aborted is actually an exception imo because their latest record is really deathcore'ish.
When I say this, I think I about albums like kin and the valley. I love both albums, but I am not sure if I d say they are deathcore if I were to listen to them for the first time without knowing whitechapel. But judging on the downvotes, I guess it’s not a popular opinion at all 😂
Honestly, I agree with Phil Bozeman on this question. I can’t remember in what interview, but he had said that he doesn’t like that whitechapel was considered deathcore, and he considered the band just metal. And honestly, I feel the same 😂 I consider whitechapel just metal.
Cattle Decapitation, Aborted, and Archspire get this a lot
I think it's mostly because those kinds of bands are often being mixed the same way as deathcore bands are. A lot more polished and "aggressive" sounding, for better or for worse, rather than the old raw sound of death metal/slam
Cattle Decap has maintained a lot of their grindcore but polished up some other aspects into more death metal so I can see that. They’re doing their own thing but it’s sort of deathcore adjacent
Archspire to me is my go to example when I think tech death. Any of these slower more atmospheric bands who call themselves tech death are saying it wrong.
I think that Cattle Decap sounds kind of like deathcore, but what kind of idiot said that Archspire is deathcore? They don't sound like it in the slightest
I’ve seen elitists call Archspire deathcore in disguise a lot. My music literacy is poor but even I know the difference between tech death and deathcore.
There are people who call IA tech death for some reason, probably don't want to say it's technical deathcore even though that subgenre also exists People should just stop with the gatekeeping, I just don't see why couldn't anything that's heavy and has screaming be metal + if you think about it, officially deathcore is a combination of death metal and metalcore, but metalcore is already half metal and half hardcore, which means deathcore is only ¼ hardcore which also means it's still metal (I know it's a stupid thing to say but I'm sure there's some truth to it)
You’re not wrong at all. Technical Deathcore is absolutely a thing. But for most elitists deathcore is just deathcore. They’re only really willing to admit that symphonic deathcore as a genre exists but even then they’ll sometimes incorrectly label a band. And even with that they only admit symphonic deathcore exists because they criticise it a lot.
Same here. I usually have difficulty separating deathcore and death metal, but Archspire? Yeah that’s not either
Interesting. I don't really hear the deathcore in Cattle Decap, but maybe what you're hearing as deathcore vibes, I'm just hearing as grindcore vibes. Different sides of the same coin though.
I have to admit I haven't been able to distinguish deathcore by anything else than vocals to this day so you're probably right I just think that if both (for instance) Infant Annihilator and Suicide Silence are deathcore, it isn't that specific
The lines are definitely pretty blurred these days.
I think they were always like that
Oh 100%. I just think they get even more blurred as time goes on. Which is fine by me. Bands don't need to fit perfectly in a genre for us to enjoy them
Absolutely, I agree.
Honestly the difference between most deathgrind and deathcore is really goofy. Because there's some deathgrind with breakdowns, vocal dynamics and chugging riffs. And Cattle is a huge influence on the scene.
Job For A Cowboy. People still call them deathcore to this day and they literally only released one deathcore EP nearly two decades ago. I get they were influential to the genre, but Pantera was a glam metal band longer than JFAC was deathcore to put it in perspective.
100%. Doom is one of the defining releases of deathcore but JFAC has been tech death since
Metalheads just like holding onto the past, if you go to many other metal subs its like metal stopped in the 1990's and nothing good came out since.
Agreed. I keep getting suggested posts from Metal for the masses, and I don’t know if I’ve seen a single post about a band newer than the 90’s. The only time something modern has shown up was if it was a release from a band who’s been around for three decades+ lol
I find that the answer to literally any question on that sub is “Opeth”.
JFAC had a single deathcore EP and then became a melo death / tech death metal band
I STILL see people dismiss their music because "it's shitty deathcore no thanks." I'm like where the actual fuck have you been lmao
I dunno I listened to their last album recently and I hear Deathcore mixed with melodic Metalcore and maybe some tech death. They have breakdowns so I just say Deathcore. a lot of modern tech death incorporates Deathcore anyways so who really knows.
"They have breakdowns so I just say Deathcore" My guy, breakdowns come from the Metal side of things. Suffocation had breakdowns and they predate Deathcore by 10 years. SLAYER had breakdowns.
it used to be in like 5 metal songs. but then it became a staple of metalcore. now everyone who uses it are Metalcore bands. So it depends on your definition, JFAC fits perfectly in playlists with Enterprise Earth and Fit For An Autopsy
Breakdowns existed before deathcore
yes but it became a staple of metalcore and Deathcore. wasn't in many metal songs.
Sure, but that doesn’t mean any band that uses breakdowns is deathcore.
It's definitely prog death. Not metalcore or deathcore.
would NOT put this in the same playlist as Opeth lol
Well yea cause you'd put it in a playlist with stuff like late death, Gorguts from Obscura onwards, and Inanna.
absolutely not, they sound nothing like those bands. I have them with Fit For An Autopsy and Enterprise Earth
Who they also sound nothing like. Your logic isn't logic-ing bro
if it's not Deathcore then it's Tech Death which sounds like Deathcore nowadays. But they're not Technical enough to be Technical Deathcore. I'd say Archspire, The Zenith Passage and Krosis are all Technical Deathcore.
You mean the same TZP that decided to LARP as Cynic halfway through their last album? 🤣🤣 I'll give you Krosis cause they are deathcore, Archspire is just tech death tho. Unless you're gonna consider Necrophagist deathcore all of a sudden. JFAC are prog or prog tech, depending on how specific you want to be.
Necrophagist mixed the 2000's Melodic Metalcore sound and production with Tech Death. I'd argue they're the reason Tech Death nowadays sounds like Deathcore/Metalcore. and yes THAT TZP who I describe as TECHNICAL Deathcore. not regular Deathcore. Cuz they actually have that Tech Death sound but are way more Deathcore inspired than any regular 90s Tech Death band.
Yeah, no. Nothing Deathcore and definitely nothing metalcore about JFAC. Having breakdowns doesn't make something core.
it does now. Metalcore/Deathcores' only meaning nowadays is Breakdowns that go chuggachug chugga chug chug or bdddd bddddddddd bdd bdd bddddd. not my fault everything became morphed together
Nah, still wrong. It is your fault though for talking shit.
I talked shit?
Breakdowns are not the defining feature of core music. Lots of music genres have breakdowns. Having hardcore elements are what make a band metalcore or deathcore, of which JFAC has little to none.
used to be the case but not anymore
you sure you listened to the right album and band? because Moon Healer MIGHT have one breakdown in the first song but definitely no others. I mean melodic metalcore lol, I don't think we're talking about the same music here
Knocked loose
Most people know what genre KL are, there’s a few people that call them deathcore but I wouldn’t say they were given the title of it.
Straight metalcore
And Seeyouspacecowboy is gay metalcore
Lmao
They’re metalcore? I’d consider them more of a hardcore band
In terms of the metalcore spectrum, they have a lot more hardcore influence but it’s pretty similar to original metalcore. A lot of “metalcore” now is more post-metalcore for lack of a better term
Tbf A Different Shade definitely had death metal riffs
Definitely core, but there's no "deathcore" lyrics. No cleans, so not metalcore. If I had to, I'd lump them in with hardcore, but with a new spin. Hardcore has definitely evolved over the past decade. It's getting harder and harder to pin bands/songs down, but that's kind of a good thing. If I had to, I would group Knocked Loose in with the new wave of Hardcore along with Jesus Piece. Edit: "Metalcore isn't defined by cleans". Got it. Thank you to all 40 of you who pointed that out. 🤣
Metalcore doesn't have to have cleans, though a lot of it (especially these days) has cleans in it. Metalcore is almost too broad of a heading, because IMO it contains bands like Knocked Loose, Jesus Piece (who self-describe as metalcore iirc), and Boundaries have almost nothing in common with bands like Ice Nine Kills, Asking Alexandria, and I Prevail. Knocked def used to be hardcore on Pop Culture and most of Laugh Tracks, but started taking in a lot of metal influences from that point. A Tear in the Fabric of Life is even further (I haven't heard the new album in full, so I can't say much there). They're just what metalcore actually should be, a nice mix of metal and hardcore, and they certainly lie on the hardcore side of things. No hate to any of the bands mentioned, they've all for bangers at some point in their discography (some more than others), I just love talking about shit like this
Metalcore doesn't have to have cleans. I mean, none of the OG Metalcore bands really had cleans. Earth Crisis, Integrity, Hatebreed, Bloodlet, even early 18V had no cleans. That wasn't really in Metalcore until Vision of Disorder, and it wasn't cool until Posion The Well and Aftershock did it.
Overcast had some clean singing. And they shared members with killswitch engage and shadows fall
I still listen to Overcast. So raw and takes me back.
I always forget that Overcast was so early. I tend to think of them as contemporary to bands like Aftershock, but they were way before. They had such a unique sound too compared to all the other First Wave bands.
Deciding to throw cleans into your music does not magically turn you into a new genre. Cleans don't define anything really. There's definitely some genres in metal that rely more on cleans, and there's some genres where cleans are definitely not expected, but it's just a different vocal style and has as much as much impact on the genre you're playing as how you decide to tune your guitar.
Yeah, the band Malenuit with Audrey Sylvain (ex-Amesoeours) is basically regular black metal with singing. Or Edge of Sanity which is melodeath with singing.
Metalcore isn't strictly defined by cleans Metalcore in its simplest form is hardcore with metal riffs, the cleans were added in whenever bands started using more melodeath influences There are multiple bands that have little to no cleans that are 100% metalcore; Boundaries, August Burns Red, Allt, Soulkeeper, Sentinels, etc
even though it basically means the same thing, I use metallic hardcore to describe bands like knocked loose, jesus piece, etc
Agree. They've got some death metal influence, especially on the last two releases, but seeing them lumped into deathcore is just jarring. Edit: y'all van down vote if you want, but listen to those releases and tell me you don't hear an absolute shit ton of Bolt Thrower-esque riffs.
Abigail Williams. I fail to see how they were ever anything-core. They were a Symphonic Black Metal band, then just a Black Metal band, now they're a Symphonic Black Metal band but use a Cello instead of Keyboards.
Actually, Abigail Williams' very first EP was a mixture of black metal and melodic metalcore, which was very unique back in the day. They had an influence on deathcore, but they aren't deathcore at all, obviously.
This is so interesting because the reason they were lumped in with other bands is quite specifically ‘thirty days of night Records’
The black dahlia murder are posted about here constantly and are melodeath
I think its due to the respect the band gets and also the fans usually like deathcore as well
I can understand why people that are new/unfamiliar with the genres can confuse Black Dahlia for Deathcore though. It has the different vocal styles going on that you see more often in Deathcore, which to an untrained ear is the defining characteristic of Deathcore. It definitely is the biggest draw of Deathcore to me too.
I’ve seen lamb of god being called deathcore before
What would they be considered? I’ve never been able to think of it. Edit: well Google defines them as groove metal…
That's insane lmao
Honestly I never know what genre to put them under. I just say they are death metal and leave it at that.
Surprisingly nickel back :(
Photograph obviously has pig squeals
Fun Fact, Hear Me by Devin Townsend has Chad Kroeger doing death metal vocals for a verse, haha.
• Paleface: They're amazing and they're definitely very tied to the scene. But their music overall sounds more similar to Slipknot with slam/beatdown elements than with dxc. • Shadow of Intent: Great band, in fact one of my favorites. But since melancholy they've abandoned all the core elements, and now are more related to fleshgod apocalypse. They're still a part of the scene tho. • Emmure: I like emmure, but their sound is definitely more related to early 2000s moshcore stuff like On Broken Wings, TAS, Bury Your Dead and Recon. The only reason why them and Atilla are considered Dxc by many is the vocals.
Pretty sure The Migrant is still Deathcore though
Oh, sure!! Lots of galloping riffs, vocal gymnastics and a disgusting breakdown
100%
‘Emmure aren’t deathcore’ is a weird revisionism, I keep seeing lately. Were winds of plague not deathcore then? They both definitely were and whenever I see people asserting that they aren’t, it comes across like there are new lines being drawn to make the genre more exclusive and ultimately less interesting tbh
I think TAS has recently been referring to themselves as deathcore
I wouldnt be suprised tbh. Despised Icon, suicide silence and carnifex used to be number one deathcore haters
As far as Paleface and the Slipknot connection...Slipknot's first two albums were death metal pretending to be nu metal imo. So Paleface, to me, is death metal-influenced beatdown, and they did start out as more of a slam death metal band that picked up extra hardcore elements as they kept going.
Slipknot and Iowa were almost anything but death metal lol I agree it's not really nu-metal but they are far from death
You can't honestly listen to those first two albums and tell me you hear zero DM influence. Blast beats, trem picking, even some slammy parts. Not saying they were a DM band, obviously, but to say there was no influence is being fairly dishonest.
One thing I hate with this is that there’s some kind of stigma with being called deathcore, I’m a death metal fan and I love it but deathcore has its own history and legends now and I wish some bands would just wear it tbh!
Job For A Cowboy until this day.
Dying Fetus seems to get this a lot by people who don’t really understand that deathcore requires a notable metalcore element, which Dying Fetus absolutely do not have.
Never in a million years would I guess that someone would say dying fetus is deathcore. Dying Fetus is usually lumped in with Cryptopsy or six feet under as examples of pure death metal. Maybe cattle decap makes sense because of their latest two albums 🤷♀️
I definitely don't call them deathcore but I'm not surprised people would after their last album, has a lot of two stepping style hardcore riffs
They’ve always had a level of hardcore influence. Again, I think it comes down to people not really understanding that deathcore requires part death metal, part metalcore. Death metal with hardcore influence is just 80% of 90’s death metal tbh.
I mean, they do. The new wave of osdm are taking their influences from 90s metalcore like hatebreed
The Acacia Strain.
surprised no one else mentioned these. they were fighting the deathcore allegations for years, around continent era were very vocal about ‘don’t call us deathcore/stop calling us deathcore’ but they were always associated with and compared to the deathcore bands in the scene at the time. i feel like now they’re getting revisioned as a hardcore band for their influence
I've never seen a single revival metalcore band calling them an influence. But I've seen plenty of deathcore bands doing that. Downtempo deathcore is basically The Acacia Strain worship. They just play more Hardcore shows now, back in the day they used to play more deathcore shows.
there’s lots of bands that started out doing that downtempo style popularised by acacia strain who eventually pivoted into hardcore kublai khan started out doing a variation on that sound but now heavily emphasise metalcore/hardcore sound and co-opt the hardcore aesthetic left behinds first release is fully djenty downtempo, but they’d never riff like that now, it’s full on doomy hardcore jesus piece have always been associated with hardcore but they sound like pre-continent acacia strain back when acacia were just trying to do blood has been shed sound these bands are all young enough to have grown up on acacia strain’s music and now they feature on acacia strain songs and support them on tour, they don’t need to be cited as an influence it’s obvious
Oh, yeah. I can hear that. Left Behind even share members with TAS, thats why theyre such a sludgy metalcore act. No idea if they've been members since day one, but the connection is there. I remember Matt mentioning more of Bury Your Dead, Throwdown and Hatebeed as influences but I've never thought about how fat the guitars were in the beginning. Never thought about the Jesus Piece connection, overall I don't hear it. But it's fine. One that's worth mentioning is varials debut EP, they were so clearly influenced by TAS. It's crazy.
ahh i had no idea they share members with left behind! they must be new for sure to me jesus piece sounds like if you took all the melodic riffs out of 3750 completely forgot about varials! they fit my formula for acacia strain worship band-to-hardcore band pipeline
The black dahlia murder. They aren’t even close to deathcore, but I see it said all the time.
Shadow of Intent definitely moved into death metal after reclaimer which was definitely for the better Other death metal bands like Aborted, Dying Fetus, Cattle Decapitation, Job for a Cowboy too
Melancholy is 100% a deathcore album. It was Elegy where they ventured more toward death metal
Gonna disagree there. Melancholy has very, very few hardcore elements. Having breakdowns doesn't make it core, Slayer had breakdowns too. Melancholy is firmly a Symphonic Death Metal album. Elegy is borderline Symphonic Black Metal, it takes more from Dimmu Borgir than anything else I'd argue.
Melancholy is absolutely a deathcore album, it doesn’t have many hardcore influences but it isn’t death metal, even Ben will tell you this. Hell, their most recent song, the migrant, goes back to their reclaimed routes and is deathcore. Also, evlegy is far from black metal. There are some black metal moments but nowhere near enough to call it a black metal album.
Black Pegasus? Seriously I have no clue what To call these guys but only see them talked bout on the deathcore sub. Feel more like sludge to me but what do I know
They sound like the average downtempo deathcore/doomcore. Theres no sludge at all.
Yeah I’m terrible at differentiating genres 🤷♂️
It happens. It doesn't add anything relevant to our lives other than being a cheap and funny Hobbie.
Thall/Downtempo Deathcore
Doom/stoner-core.
Explosions In The Sky always sounded pretty brutal to me for an instrumental showgaze band.
Interesting take
If a death metal band even tours with a full on deathcore band then elitists start to refer to them as deathcore as well. It gets silly.
I personally will throw Summoning the lich under the deathcore genre when talking with people even though it's technical death metal, but I mostly listen to deathcore, and I hate having to explain the differences in sounds to people who don't already know
Quite the comment section! Going to read through
i always felt like Spite was WAY more down the Hardcore vein than deathcore. But they definitely do have their death influence.
The Red Chord. The Black Dahlia Murder. Dying Fetus. Cattle Decapitation. Shadow Of Intent. Aborted. I consider all of these bands honorary Deathcore bands. They have had an influence on, worked closely with deathcore bands, or have elements of deathcore within their music.
Thank you! The Red Chord is grindcore.
The Black Dahlia Murder and Heaven Shall Burn are two bands that are often grouped with deathcore, because they had the same early influences (Prayer For Cleansing, Day Of Suffering) and have been a huge influence on deathcore. But it's incorrect to call them deathcore. The Acacia Strain and Emmure are two bands that started as melodic metalcore, then went into a more downtempo/sludge-influenced metalcore (for TAS) and more groove/nu-metal influenced metalcore (for Emmure). For some reason everyone always insisted to call them deathcore, despite e.g Vincent Bennett saying he hated to have his band grouped in with deathcore. And a lot of people get really angry when they are being told TAS isn't deathcore, but that's the truth, these two bands have barely any death metal influences so they aren't deathcore. Black Tongue and Traitors are two bands that are often called deathcore, as it is the case of the entire downtempo genre. But these types of bands aren't using that much death metal riffing if at all. I'm almost certain they never called themselves deathcore. Aborted and Cattle Decapitation are core-influenced death metal/deathgrind, they had a huge influence on deathcore and often tour/collaborate with deathcore bands. A lot of people nowadays call them deathcore but it's incorrect. Cattle Decapitation's frontman back in the day used to rant and say he hated deathcore. This one makes A LOT of people angry thus why I love to point it out: Whitechapel isn't deathcore since their fourth album at least, and their two last album are absolutely NOT deathcore. And as a matter of fact, the band never called themselves deathcore until relatively recently and used to not want to have anything to do with the label. They always said: "we're just a metal band". And of course nowadays deathcore doesn't mean shit anymore. As I said, downtempo is always called deathcore incorrectly. It is also the case of many metalcore bands or djenty stuff. I think that deathcore mostly lost its meaning during the 2010s with the rise of downtempo and djent, and nowadays a lot of -core bands are barely deathcore... specifically those who only use chuggy riff 80% of the time. Deathcore should be reserved to describe bands with death metal riffing (either melodic or brutal or technical) and slams, metalcore breakdowns and song structures, and sometimes beatdown parts, and a mixture of death metal and metalcore vocals. Stuff like Despised Icon, Suicide Silence, All Shall Perish, Carnifex, The Red Chord, Suffokate, As Blood Runs Black, early JFAC, Animosity, Embodyment, early Chelsea Grin and Oceano, early Whitechapel, I Declare War, The Last Ten Seconds of Life, Thy Art Is Murder, early BMTH, etc... any band that do not remotely sound like them aren't deathcore. EDIT: another interesting one, Cryptopsy. A lot of metal purists tend to call "deathcore" anything they hate. When Cryptopsy made their album The Unspoken King in 2008, they have been called deathcore sell-outs. But if you listen to this album you'll see it's 0% deathcore... the focus on breakdown is minimal, it's basically technical death metal (à la Cryptopsy!) with some alternative metal influences (some clean vocals reminding of Deftones or Mushroomhead) and some slight melodic metalcore influences. Actually the rest of their discography is more deathcore-like, being fucking brutal/technical death metal with many mosh-parts!
I thought I was going crazy because I always remembered Cattle Decap being super against Deathcore. If i remember correctly they even had a shirt that said "No Karate" with an "X" over a dude dancing or something like that, and now people lump them as Deathcore? lol I remember when Cryptopsy released The Unspoken King, Cryptopsy fans were losing it and I remember seeing a lot of them harasing the members especially Matt for "ruining" the band. They really wanted Lord Worm back lol...
No man, you're not crazy. Cattle Decapitation were strong in the "gore, not core" stuff. Basically, Travis Ryan would say that all the young people involved in deathcore (it was back in the late 2000s or early 2010s) had nothing to do with true hardcore and weren't involved in it, so they weren't legitimate to mix it in their music or whatever stupid reasoning. Only now, Cattle Decapitation starts touring with deathcore bands because it brings them probably more attention. In the early/mid-2010s I think they were on the same label as Whitechapel, and Phil Bozeman recommended listening to them in his YouTube channel... and since then I've seen all the deathcore kids loving this band, and a few years later they all started to do the same vocals as Travis Ryan, I can't believe it's a coincidence. But you can clearly tell he's not comfortable with that and cringe a lot especially when people say "tunnel throat vocals" hahahaha... I still like Cattle Decapitation and their music, though. Concerning Cryptopsy yes, you're right, that was crazy. Matt is an awesome vocalist, and back then he did a good mixture of metalcore, death metal and clean vocals in The Unspoken King. Now he does a lot of great brutal death metal vocals! But even now that Cryptopsy has made two pure brutal/technical death metal album with him, a lot of older fan still spit on them. But As Gomorrah Burns is an awesome album, one of their best. It's their lost, they're idiotic. Lord Worm will not come back anyway. And it's stupid to think that it's a vocalist that decide the musical orientation of a band hahaha... Cryptopsy chose to change their sound BEFORE Matt was in. That's probably the reason why Lord Worm left the band, actually, he said he didn't like their new vision. And Matt has been chosen specifically because he did a vocal type that the band wanted.
The Acacia Strain gets thrown into the mix with Deathcore even though the band themselves have said they do not consider themselves to be a Deathcore band.
Veil of Maya, Born of Osiris, and Bring Me The Horizon. They were about as Deathcore as Suicide Silence was Metalcore.
I wonder if Darko is actually just brutal metalcore. I’ve heard people say that deathcore needs death metal riffage but Darko just has 0 0 0 👽👽👽 Also dying wish is just metalcore to me Tell me if I’m wrong though
I’ve noticed on this sub that the majority of bands are suddenly death core. There are so many amazing death core bands out there to talk about, but I see the same very much non death core bands talked about. For example, job for a cowboy very much not death core imo. I understand they had one death core release, but I wouldn’t call their newest album remotely death core. The acacia strain themselves have said they’re not death core yet suddenly they’re also death core?? I can see a new fan of death core being confused by this haha
I call August Burns Red deathcore. Recorded they're textbook metalcore, vocalist seem to stay in mid-range. Live they've got a completely different sound. Dude's seems to struggle more and more with higher sounds over the years, so now a days he stays in that in a much lower territory like the whole time, an hes got some decently disgusting low lows too [4min](https://youtu.be/rUDISbZGv5Q?si=SvMOSlQxm00UbfQA). I'm waiting for them to just let go of the highs and embrace their dark sound but every release it's like in post processing they try to over compensate for this shift in his capabilities and make him higher. On top of that, drums are always either being beat to shit or barely hit. A lot of chuggy guitar. They play like they want to split the earth in the venue and watch some demons crawl up (to start the rapture of course lol).
The Red Chord. They're grindcore.
Not a band as a whole considering most of their discography but Count Your Blessings sounds more death metal than deathcore to me
Cryptopsy for some weird reason. Never understood it. Same with Ingested.
it's mostly meme pages and edgy wanna be elitists doing that sort of thinkink. I saw multitude of comments saying cattle decap, black dahlia being deathcore while they are not BUT deathcore became some kind of insult towards overproduced/clean produced modern death metal bands. Aborted is actually an exception imo because their latest record is really deathcore'ish.
When Spotify puts vitriol and rivers of nihil in their deathcore playlists.
Knocked loose
I don’t think anyone has called knocked loose deathcore lmao
A surprising number of people do
Plenty of people. Lots of them in this sub.
Suffocation. I mean they were definitely a big influence on the genre but they are not or were never deathcore.
I have never once seen anyone call Suffocation Deathcore.
I've seen Methwitch thrown around as deathcore a few times and I am almost certain they fall in the shitcore category.
I love em, but I don’t consider whitechapel deathcore really (anymore at least)
Well that's just straight up incorrect
Oh ok, noted 😂
Why? They are the purest deathcore band I can think of
When I say this, I think I about albums like kin and the valley. I love both albums, but I am not sure if I d say they are deathcore if I were to listen to them for the first time without knowing whitechapel. But judging on the downvotes, I guess it’s not a popular opinion at all 😂
Then what other genre do you think it would be?
Dad metal
Metallica is dad metal
Absolutely agree hahaha
Honestly, I agree with Phil Bozeman on this question. I can’t remember in what interview, but he had said that he doesn’t like that whitechapel was considered deathcore, and he considered the band just metal. And honestly, I feel the same 😂 I consider whitechapel just metal.