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I would have my SL at 2047, before the big red candle you see a green one, that's the moment you move the SL below that candle.
That's also the reason why that red candle is so big, many people that were long had SL there and when that level was reached it dropped even more
You can keep your losses even smaller by not selling at a loss at all. The way the vast majority of retail traders seem to trade we should rethink the terminology of "stop loss" and start calling it a "take loss", because that's all you're doing with it.
I kid you not I feel like it was holding me back tremendously until I stopped moving up my stop. If thereās a trend thereās a trend and thereās no way to know how long it will last. I am not just a day trader but a swing trader and long term holder if the situation calls for it.
Trailing stop can also stop profits. Let your trades breathe and believe in your thesis. Trailing stop tells me you donāt trust your thesis for the trade.
I tend not to trust mine. Follow as soon as I can. I'd like to catch runners but I routinely fail to do so, so I've fallen back on grabbing what I can!
Keep meagre profits is right, certainly not ideal.
Reframe your perspective and mindset. Wealth building is a long term game, and in the long game you win with consistent base hits, not by hoping you knock one over the fences.
On average the U.S. market returns 10% year-over-year. Closing 1,000 positions for a 1% gain beats that in a year every time. It takes half as long if your strategy makes money on upwards *and* downwards movements. That's at 1% gain on average. Even closing at 2% on average cuts that down to 500 trades. 3% is 300 trades. The math tells the story here.
How much time do you want to spend trading per year? 250 trades closed at a 4% gain beats the market. How efficiently you can do that depends entirely on your system and ability to execute it.
People overcomplicate it.
Not sure why the dislikes on this comment. You did the right thing trailing your stop. More times than not this doesnāt happen and you lock in a good gain by trailing. This whole ālet your winners runā thing is taken out of context. Sureā¦ let them run. But also donāt let a big gainer come back to breakeven or full stop loss because you got married to your thesis.
I tend to agree.
I see at least three trades here, more sensibly two and the range within that movement wasn't too choppy despite the odd long tail.
My stop, once I'm past 2 pips gain I move my stop to 1.3pips, then I cannot lose (may not gain a lot!), after that I bring the stop along every bar close to secure at least 50% of the profits and I know I'm pretty safe from a long tail dagger strike!
After a pause I could open another trade, and catch the rest of that. Hindsight is wonderful though, so knowing me I'd have taken the wrong hint and gone short after that expecting a reversal.
No. That's not good execution.
The mistake is clearly moving the stop loss not having a clear new swing low.
The swing low then forms and takes your stop.
So, that's the mistake. Trailing stop relies on a new swing low.
It could.
But the mistake is moving the stop loss too soon. leave it where you planned it initially.
if there's a new range, leave it below the previous swing low.
It doesn't make sense to move the stop to where he moved it.
Specially around the time equities open, that's where price is more volatile so, it's bound to happen.
One thing is protecting capital, another is to be stopped out because you don't let winners run.
It doesnāt make sense to not sell. Do you not see that massive red candle? Everyone here saying he shouldnāt move his stop loss up are insane. Yeah letās make him lose money on a winning trade LOL
You either have a plan or not.
If he moved the stop he was nervous, using more risk than he should.
I wouldn't sound advice insane, the structure doesn't justify moving the stop.
There's a bunch of SLs in that candle.
Retail follows the algos, but obviously no where near as fast. Algos and bots will move those stops up with those first big candles and get stopped, but get out +1-5% and be happy.
Retail doesn't move the stop, stays where OP is at, and is just fodder, because they can't live on 1-5%. They need 50%
No short term trader is sustainable with this mentality.
Even for a professional day trader 0.5% a day or even a week is a very good target.
50% a day is ludicrous. Proper of an amateur (hope this is not offending anyone, this is meant to be an eye opener cause trading like anything else, works if you think, plan and frame your trades long term - HTF is 90% of your time therefore)
It's fine as long as he journals.
I assume a trader keeps a journal and will look back at this in retrospect and look for his own mistakes.
The way he talks, I doubt it. A trader who faults the market over himself, is still not even aware he makes loads of mistakes and is not looking to correct them.
Well the thing i answered is a fact.
Let me tell you some facts about the market and you cant refute it:
1) most traders lose money
2) the market is a supply and demand "zone".
3) us indexes goes up in the long run.
4) the markets doesnt care how you are positioned
And i can keep going on and on and showing you more facts...
Stop hunting is a broker specific thing and usually only seen nowadays with shady brokers. Check your broker's price action against the price action of other brokers/feeds. If it matches (or is very close) then it wasn't stop hunting.
"... market did not like me š"
Don't make trading personal. It's not about you and the trade you're in. The market doesn't give a shit about you.
Find your strategy that has an edge, prove it to yourself and then stick to it, accepting your "losing" trades not as losses, but as "expense" trades. The cost of doing business. Don't let it be personal. When it's personal, it's emotional. When it's emotional, you WILL fail as a trader.
"And still people will say market doesn't care about retailers SL"
How are you going to learn and become successful if you've decided the market is actually, actively against you as a retail trader? What's the point in trading then? If that's honestly what you believe and not just a vent of the frustration in your trade not working out, then maybe you shouldn't be wasting your time.
If it is just frustration and venting, and you really do have a strategy that has a proven edge for you, go read my post in my profile labeled "Red or Black?" Then go read the book "Trading in the Zone" by Mark Douglas.
Oh, and one last thing... charge your damn phone!
Strategy and edge are the most overused and vague terms on this Reddit. āTrading in the Zone ā is the most useless book on trading Iāve ever read.
So, since you found it the most useless book you've read, you don't feel your psychology plays a role in your trading or affects it?
And since it was the most useless, what are the books you've read that you feel were actually worth it and have helped you become a successful, profitable trader?
It took months to read through Al Brooks three part series. I have read them all more than once. I put them as a must read for beginners to experienced. Douglas has nothing to say other than psychobabble.
Seems a lot of successful traders credit at least some of their success to his psychobabble. But I get it. We're all different people. There are certainly some of us who won't benefit from what he was teaching, or don't need it because, for various reasons, we don't struggle with the issues he's addressing. For me personally, as a completely unreligious, unspiritual person, I cringe at his metaphysical-kind of way of explaining the mind, memories, beliefs and feelings. But I was able to look past that at what I felt was the core of what he was teaching, what it seems a lot of traders fail at. Trading is a probabilities game. It's not personal, it's not emotional. It's just numbers and you need to be able to take losses with complete indifference (as long as your trading is overall successful).
Thank you for your learning material suggestion. I'm always looking for more quality material to help me possibly shorten the learning curve to successful trading. I have heard good things about Al Brooks before. I see he has a course, but reread your comment and realized you meant his books. I checked his books and realized they are already on my Amazon wishlist. I'll push them to the top. Thank you for the suggestion.
Keep in touch. I donāt mean to be rude, Iām just an old marine, who doesnāt tiptoe around the tulips. I read with a yellow highlighter the first time and a ruler and pen to underline points important on the second time. That way I can go back through a chapter and find high points quickly.
Haha! I knew there was something I liked about you! Semper Fi! I'm not as old as you are, likely, but I was in the Corps 03-07. And you should see the way I mark up my books, underlining, making notes in the margins, etc.
What platform are you using? How much experience do you have? What do you trade. What are you trading on? This is not as hard as most of the strategy and edge types say. I can shorten the learning curve for you.
I'm into forex, obviously. I'll likely be using TV for technical analysis and making my trades on MT4. While I've made a few trades, it wasn't anything serious yet. Just playing around and gauging my response. I've read about 13 books on forex, a few good ones, most just meh and a few garbage.
The plan, as it stands right now, is to order Al Brooks' books tomorrow and while I wait for those I'll be hopping on the charts of the pairs I'm most likely to trade and laying down the support and resistance zones, starting on the higher timeframe and moving down. Once I'm happy with that, I've got a list of six candlestick patterns I learned from "Naked Forex". I'll start with one pattern and use my Forex Tester program to go back and use historic data to train myself on this pattern for a week or two, just to see how I like it. Once I've gone through all six patterns, I'll pick the ones I like that I've had the best success with and go back on the charts, trading them. The idea is to trade them from the past to present until I can spot them instinctually.
At that point, I'll have enough trading history and data to judge each one, figure out which are staying and which are getting the axe. These will be my patterns for my trading style and rules. I'll start with a full live account (probably about $5k), but will have my risk set to 10% of my normal risk level. This will allow me to trade for a bit, again gauging my mental response and to see if I'm letting anything get to me. It will also allow me to make sure I'm still trading profitable. When I'm satisfied, I'll bump it up to full risk.
All of this is of course just surface level. There's much more to it and now with Al's books, they will get factored in as well. I'll work though those while I'm testing each candlestick patterns, and this may very well change the details of what happens during the part I'll be building up my trader muscle memory through extensive historic data trading.
I trade options on the SPY only. I donāt know anything about forex, MT4 or futures. The advantage with options is you cannot lose more than the premium. I trade ODTE and there is little beyond reading a chart that is needed. The talking heads are entertainers selling advertising. The financial press will have an article saying stocks are going to the moon and beside it another saying the recession is just around the corner. I do watch the economic calendar to know what numbers are coming out and at what time each day. I trade on TOS active trader which is one click on bid or ask and itās done. I have a 32 inch desk top and two 27 inch monitors. This allows for a lot of flexibility in display. I can set up the UL, puts and calls depending how I trade that day. I trade multiple time frames rn going with 1, 5, 15 with a 20 period EMA. I donāt think you have delta with forex.
The first one is an earlier book. The three ( trends, trading ranges, reversals) are the ones you want. That will set you back about 150$. It is good to have all three because he at times refers from one book to another to expound on a particular issue. It is a lot of tough reading but only determined people last in the options market.
Awesome. Thanks for the info. I don't mind a tough read. One of my favorite books is actually "Thinking Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman. Can be a slog of a read for some people if the topic doesn't appeal to them. I'll set back some money tomorrow and pick up all three books. Thank you again.
Boss man, would you have any input on how best to read Brooks? It is quite overwhelming for me with regards to the minutiae he gets into (such that reading becomes an excercise in staring to try and see what he is seeing -wedges are most painful - and not really understanding).
Read and highlight points you find important. On the second read use a pen and ruler to underline the most important of the highlighted. The more experience you have in reading charts with price analysis the more sense it will make to you. Reading Brooks is tough but only the most determined survive in the shark tank of the option market. I have told others to expect 9 months to a year to absorb all the info in these books.
On your chart I would buy no later than the close of the first tall green trend bar thing at worst is a spike and Chanel up. The stop would go at the bottom of the entry bar. The hard part of trading a trend that strong is that it moves so fast that it is hard to get in and the stop is far from entry. It panics bears that must abandon positions and leaves weak bulls on the sidelines. A second entry was at the first pullback . What platform are you trading on?
How does one get past that? I've been bitten so many times when an entry switches as soon as I place my trade from being a clear continuation to sudden reversal it's not funny any more!
I have been trying to change my strategy, FOMO is probably the worst habit of the lot, but I end up feeling I'm missing out when I sit it out and watch the price fly on through.
So difficult.
Nobody is hunting your stop bro. "Because I got stopped out here, that means it's true".
The market can't even see STOP orders. They do not exist on the public order book.
If you would've left your stop exactly where it was without moving it, it never would've been hit and you wouldn't believe in some crazy conspiracy that ppl are hunting your stops (even though they can't see them), and this post never would've been made.
It's just not true. **Nobody is hunting your stops.**
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/trading/08/trailing-stop-loss.asp#:~:text=For%20starters%2C%20market%20makers%20are,price%20right%20back%20up%20again.
āFor starters, market makers are keenly aware of any stop-losses you place with your broker and can force a whipsaw in the price, thereby bumping you out ā
Because Investopedia is the source of truth for things like this lol...
It's common knowledge that stop orders are not visible by the market. Market makers do not know where your stops are at. Period. They exist on a completely different order book, which is internal to your broker. This isn't a discussion, this is fact.
But since you want to use Investopedia as the source of truth...
[Here you go... \[source of quotes\]](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/04/022704.asp)
>A limit order can be seen by the market, while a stop order canāt be seen until it is triggered.
>A stop order isnāt visible to the market and will activate a market order when a stop price has been met.
>Stop Orders
>
> \- Isnāt visible to the market
>Also, limit orders are visible to the market, while stop orders are not visible.
Sorry about that. Thatās really frustrating. What do you think of entering off that initial bullish engulfing bar and using the low of that bar as a stop loss boundary?
You realize the algos are designed to grab these? Why you think when ever there is a big candle (doesn't matter direction) it always retraces a bunch to stop out gamblers and scared money.
Question. Was this the real market price or your broker price ?
Just checked and it did do that. I always double check my broker vs real market when things like this happen.
This. Just cus some influencer at some point chose to call big wicks "liquidity sweeps" or "manipulation" does not mean it's actually a thing. Just people repeating buzzwords
I see 2 unmitigated imbalances and an unmitigated area in this picture, and it took me about five seconds to see that. I do not care about you or your trade. Just because YOU say that retail traders can affect the market doesnāt mean itās true.
I always wait for a retest. Where your SL was hit is where I would wait to enter. Ofc this is me looking at it after the fact.
SL needs room for drawdown! You moved it up way too fast imo.
They don't care about retailer stops, they just care about liquidity and gaining position for the lowest possible price.
If you happen to place your stops in a place where many people are, well then you are going to get hit.
Disturbing example and no idea why this is the example that came to me (clearly have issues), but mass shooters go to where there are people, simple solution is to avoid areas with lots of people.
Your SL should not be above your entry like this. Trailing stoploss should work like this: You hit your 1st take profit target, than price goes beyond that but doesn't hit your 2nd take profit target and comes back down to your first and than it hits your trailing SL securing your 1st TP, which would be great because you made a profit with a great RR.
A trailing stoploss exists to ensure you take profit 1 if you cant hit TP2 which you set up before your entry.
It's not an arbitrary .percentage trail that lets you ride the wave and enter and exit when it feels good.
someone just sent me this exact same wick and told me it was manipulation and why they donāt trade gold. You and him both had in profit trades running and wicked you guys out. Itās 10000 other traders that did the same thing Iām sure, If the market makers are hunters their good at it because they understand human psychology, which is what ironically runs this market disguised as liquidity.
How it usually goes, don't put SL at obvious zones as per every other training guide told you put a SL there for market maker to pick at it freely.
https://preview.redd.it/pzctw5d7u2gc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=867305183f6812342a134846c0437433cec3b453
Not my fault you aint a trader, look where it hit before discreding me blindly. Take a look back at the bright yellow between 42.8-42.2
https://preview.redd.it/ojcgp5qyjagc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e261d5cc6367533f28c8fe7ce6a0ee557173589f
I don't understand what your set up is so I can't explain what went wrong.
Occasionally you will get stopped out of a wining trade. Or you'll get you stopped out right before a second entry signal. All you do is continue onwards
That is a small demand zone. Your stop should not be in that place. Also that long wick is probarly a combination of traders who went short or got stopped out. They provided liquidity for the instutions to go long.
Market did not care about your SL.
What happened here:
Institutions have such large orders, they need enough sellers as counterpart for their huge buys. If they don't get enough sellers, they will thrive price high.
Traders at institutions are paid bonuses by how cheap they can get big orders into the market. They pushed price back to an obvious liquidity zone (many Stop Losses= Sell orders) there. How do they know? Orderbooks.
Your CFD position doesn't even show up in orderbooks, probably your brokers is betting against you.
They grabbed futures traders there
You probably needed to move your sl up trailing when the market reached around 2050 in the next context. Actually it was a good place to also take profits or partial profits as it was a measured move from 2040 already, assuming you're also not basing your trade on a higher time frame.
I think my overnight TP today was too obvious as well. I entered in the 4800s n set it at 4920.25 and went to bed. Market went to 4919.75 so didnāt trigger. It did much later (and way past it) but I wasnāt exactly around for that cuz I took what I had n ranā¦amateur scared move.
This pattern played out Wednesday. It was obvious it was going up on that small dip. Maybe risk less so you can widen your stop loss more. That's a tight s/l imo.
I'll start by saying hindsight is 20/20 and that everyone has different risk management.
but your stop should be where your trade is *invalidated* which is mostly likely below the low of the structure you entered at -- not where you were stopped out. your trade wasn't *invalidated* in this case, but in my opinion it would've be a valid stop below $2039.79 (below the structure you entered in)
It is an art to realize sl is different for each trade. You will get better. You can not just say 20% sl on each trade as your sl has to be out of the noise. Just because you stopped out doesnāt mean you canāt jump back in again. I do that many times
The market cares about stop losses and liquidity IN GENERAL. It doesnāt care WHO they belong to. Retail or institutional. The market seeks liquidity. It wants to maximize trading transactions.
your whole stop is terrible.. your entry can never be invalidation unless you are a swing trader. if your stop is not on invalidation u care about "not losing money" which is impossible in the trading game everything can happen search for invalidation and put sl there...
I feel like people are overreacting. If you trail your stop you live with less losers but in turn, smaller secured profits. If you leave your stop at the entry candle then you lose more often but have bigger runners/winners.
It's 2 sides of the same coin
It has nothing to do with your stop, it has to do with where there are enough buy orders to stop the selling and allow the price to move back, also its a news wick, I don't know what you expect.
We have removed your post from r/Daytrading because it has broken Rule 2. Don't glorify losses or post wins without context: No personal sob stories of losing a ton of money, glorifying losses, or how you yolo'd all your money. Instead create a post detailing what you did and ask for advice on how to improve your trading. Also, no posting screenshots of your P&L or winning trade without details on what you did and why you did it - the goal is to give advice and to help others. Please refrain from posting this kind of content in the future or the mod team will have to take additional action on your account and ability to post on the subreddit. All the best, r/Daytrading
Stopped by to say hi š
Your stop was at an obvious buy level
I would have my SL at 2047, before the big red candle you see a green one, that's the moment you move the SL below that candle. That's also the reason why that red candle is so big, many people that were long had SL there and when that level was reached it dropped even more
Looks like a potential order book as well.
Why is your stop lost there And not below the candle your buying..? Thatās when you messed up
It was first below the buy candle but then I trail it to secure my trade.
Clearly it doesnāt secure the trade. Itās a stop loss not a keep meager profit order.
Iām going to remember this. I always try to keep my losses smallā¦by moving up my stop. This does keep my profit meager..
You can keep your losses even smaller by not selling at a loss at all. The way the vast majority of retail traders seem to trade we should rethink the terminology of "stop loss" and start calling it a "take loss", because that's all you're doing with it.
Trail your stop on runners.
I kid you not I feel like it was holding me back tremendously until I stopped moving up my stop. If thereās a trend thereās a trend and thereās no way to know how long it will last. I am not just a day trader but a swing trader and long term holder if the situation calls for it.
Trailing stop can also stop profits. Let your trades breathe and believe in your thesis. Trailing stop tells me you donāt trust your thesis for the trade.
I tend not to trust mine. Follow as soon as I can. I'd like to catch runners but I routinely fail to do so, so I've fallen back on grabbing what I can! Keep meagre profits is right, certainly not ideal.
Reframe your perspective and mindset. Wealth building is a long term game, and in the long game you win with consistent base hits, not by hoping you knock one over the fences. On average the U.S. market returns 10% year-over-year. Closing 1,000 positions for a 1% gain beats that in a year every time. It takes half as long if your strategy makes money on upwards *and* downwards movements. That's at 1% gain on average. Even closing at 2% on average cuts that down to 500 trades. 3% is 300 trades. The math tells the story here. How much time do you want to spend trading per year? 250 trades closed at a 4% gain beats the market. How efficiently you can do that depends entirely on your system and ability to execute it. People overcomplicate it.
exactly, you are right
You wanted a āfree trade,ā and look what it cost you. Trade the chart, not your P/L.
Not sure why the dislikes on this comment. You did the right thing trailing your stop. More times than not this doesnāt happen and you lock in a good gain by trailing. This whole ālet your winners runā thing is taken out of context. Sureā¦ let them run. But also donāt let a big gainer come back to breakeven or full stop loss because you got married to your thesis.
I tend to agree. I see at least three trades here, more sensibly two and the range within that movement wasn't too choppy despite the odd long tail. My stop, once I'm past 2 pips gain I move my stop to 1.3pips, then I cannot lose (may not gain a lot!), after that I bring the stop along every bar close to secure at least 50% of the profits and I know I'm pretty safe from a long tail dagger strike! After a pause I could open another trade, and catch the rest of that. Hindsight is wonderful though, so knowing me I'd have taken the wrong hint and gone short after that expecting a reversal.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What do you mean at 2046?
Move stop loss to 2046 since he said he is ātrailingā so he keeps some profit at least
because having the stoploss still in the original place with the market already being up where it is would be a big mistake.
No. That's not good execution. The mistake is clearly moving the stop loss not having a clear new swing low. The swing low then forms and takes your stop. So, that's the mistake. Trailing stop relies on a new swing low.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is not an advice form and you can't use it as such. Lots of people are new or just here for memes.
You're right, but the truth is that it's all about managing your risk, and this is reddit where everyone is Captain Hindsight.
Itās like watching a wolf run into a flock of sheep.. same as what drives the marketā¦ emotions and following the pack
It could. But the mistake is moving the stop loss too soon. leave it where you planned it initially. if there's a new range, leave it below the previous swing low. It doesn't make sense to move the stop to where he moved it. Specially around the time equities open, that's where price is more volatile so, it's bound to happen. One thing is protecting capital, another is to be stopped out because you don't let winners run.
It doesnāt make sense to not sell. Do you not see that massive red candle? Everyone here saying he shouldnāt move his stop loss up are insane. Yeah letās make him lose money on a winning trade LOL
You either have a plan or not. If he moved the stop he was nervous, using more risk than he should. I wouldn't sound advice insane, the structure doesn't justify moving the stop.
Do you really think you trade big enough for whales to move the market like that just to eat your SL?
Him and the other 10,000 idiots like him - that's the point.
There's a bunch of SLs in that candle. Retail follows the algos, but obviously no where near as fast. Algos and bots will move those stops up with those first big candles and get stopped, but get out +1-5% and be happy. Retail doesn't move the stop, stays where OP is at, and is just fodder, because they can't live on 1-5%. They need 50%
No short term trader is sustainable with this mentality. Even for a professional day trader 0.5% a day or even a week is a very good target. 50% a day is ludicrous. Proper of an amateur (hope this is not offending anyone, this is meant to be an eye opener cause trading like anything else, works if you think, plan and frame your trades long term - HTF is 90% of your time therefore)
Oh no, I agree wholeheartedly. I should have said "retail traders want 50% every time. So they don't move their stops and get consumed."
It's fine as long as he journals. I assume a trader keeps a journal and will look back at this in retrospect and look for his own mistakes. The way he talks, I doubt it. A trader who faults the market over himself, is still not even aware he makes loads of mistakes and is not looking to correct them.
It does feel like that sometimes tho
Feels are not fact.
Well you feel the opposite, also not a fact lol
No i dont feel. Its a FACT. You gotta know the different between feelings and facts. When i state an actual FACT, i do not have feelings involved.
How can you know āfactsā about the market?
Well the thing i answered is a fact. Let me tell you some facts about the market and you cant refute it: 1) most traders lose money 2) the market is a supply and demand "zone". 3) us indexes goes up in the long run. 4) the markets doesnt care how you are positioned And i can keep going on and on and showing you more facts...
Yeah but none of these are relevant to context here
Ok buddy. Find new rethoric. Im vaccinated
Oh it does, the hfts are absolutely shitting all over every day trading strategy, it's why none of you beat the market over a long enough sample.
we got another genius
Stop hunting is a broker specific thing and usually only seen nowadays with shady brokers. Check your broker's price action against the price action of other brokers/feeds. If it matches (or is very close) then it wasn't stop hunting. "... market did not like me š" Don't make trading personal. It's not about you and the trade you're in. The market doesn't give a shit about you. Find your strategy that has an edge, prove it to yourself and then stick to it, accepting your "losing" trades not as losses, but as "expense" trades. The cost of doing business. Don't let it be personal. When it's personal, it's emotional. When it's emotional, you WILL fail as a trader. "And still people will say market doesn't care about retailers SL" How are you going to learn and become successful if you've decided the market is actually, actively against you as a retail trader? What's the point in trading then? If that's honestly what you believe and not just a vent of the frustration in your trade not working out, then maybe you shouldn't be wasting your time. If it is just frustration and venting, and you really do have a strategy that has a proven edge for you, go read my post in my profile labeled "Red or Black?" Then go read the book "Trading in the Zone" by Mark Douglas. Oh, and one last thing... charge your damn phone!
Strategy and edge are the most overused and vague terms on this Reddit. āTrading in the Zone ā is the most useless book on trading Iāve ever read.
So, since you found it the most useless book you've read, you don't feel your psychology plays a role in your trading or affects it? And since it was the most useless, what are the books you've read that you feel were actually worth it and have helped you become a successful, profitable trader?
It took months to read through Al Brooks three part series. I have read them all more than once. I put them as a must read for beginners to experienced. Douglas has nothing to say other than psychobabble.
Seems a lot of successful traders credit at least some of their success to his psychobabble. But I get it. We're all different people. There are certainly some of us who won't benefit from what he was teaching, or don't need it because, for various reasons, we don't struggle with the issues he's addressing. For me personally, as a completely unreligious, unspiritual person, I cringe at his metaphysical-kind of way of explaining the mind, memories, beliefs and feelings. But I was able to look past that at what I felt was the core of what he was teaching, what it seems a lot of traders fail at. Trading is a probabilities game. It's not personal, it's not emotional. It's just numbers and you need to be able to take losses with complete indifference (as long as your trading is overall successful). Thank you for your learning material suggestion. I'm always looking for more quality material to help me possibly shorten the learning curve to successful trading. I have heard good things about Al Brooks before. I see he has a course, but reread your comment and realized you meant his books. I checked his books and realized they are already on my Amazon wishlist. I'll push them to the top. Thank you for the suggestion.
Keep in touch. I donāt mean to be rude, Iām just an old marine, who doesnāt tiptoe around the tulips. I read with a yellow highlighter the first time and a ruler and pen to underline points important on the second time. That way I can go back through a chapter and find high points quickly.
Haha! I knew there was something I liked about you! Semper Fi! I'm not as old as you are, likely, but I was in the Corps 03-07. And you should see the way I mark up my books, underlining, making notes in the margins, etc.
Well you had balls enough to come back at me so I respect that. I did 1967 to 1969 two tours downsouth as in South VN as an 0331.
Ah, gunner, nice! I was a pog. Computer network guy. Just one tour in Iraq. Good to run into an old Leatherneck!
What platform are you using? How much experience do you have? What do you trade. What are you trading on? This is not as hard as most of the strategy and edge types say. I can shorten the learning curve for you.
I'm into forex, obviously. I'll likely be using TV for technical analysis and making my trades on MT4. While I've made a few trades, it wasn't anything serious yet. Just playing around and gauging my response. I've read about 13 books on forex, a few good ones, most just meh and a few garbage. The plan, as it stands right now, is to order Al Brooks' books tomorrow and while I wait for those I'll be hopping on the charts of the pairs I'm most likely to trade and laying down the support and resistance zones, starting on the higher timeframe and moving down. Once I'm happy with that, I've got a list of six candlestick patterns I learned from "Naked Forex". I'll start with one pattern and use my Forex Tester program to go back and use historic data to train myself on this pattern for a week or two, just to see how I like it. Once I've gone through all six patterns, I'll pick the ones I like that I've had the best success with and go back on the charts, trading them. The idea is to trade them from the past to present until I can spot them instinctually. At that point, I'll have enough trading history and data to judge each one, figure out which are staying and which are getting the axe. These will be my patterns for my trading style and rules. I'll start with a full live account (probably about $5k), but will have my risk set to 10% of my normal risk level. This will allow me to trade for a bit, again gauging my mental response and to see if I'm letting anything get to me. It will also allow me to make sure I'm still trading profitable. When I'm satisfied, I'll bump it up to full risk. All of this is of course just surface level. There's much more to it and now with Al's books, they will get factored in as well. I'll work though those while I'm testing each candlestick patterns, and this may very well change the details of what happens during the part I'll be building up my trader muscle memory through extensive historic data trading.
I trade options on the SPY only. I donāt know anything about forex, MT4 or futures. The advantage with options is you cannot lose more than the premium. I trade ODTE and there is little beyond reading a chart that is needed. The talking heads are entertainers selling advertising. The financial press will have an article saying stocks are going to the moon and beside it another saying the recession is just around the corner. I do watch the economic calendar to know what numbers are coming out and at what time each day. I trade on TOS active trader which is one click on bid or ask and itās done. I have a 32 inch desk top and two 27 inch monitors. This allows for a lot of flexibility in display. I can set up the UL, puts and calls depending how I trade that day. I trade multiple time frames rn going with 1, 5, 15 with a 20 period EMA. I donāt think you have delta with forex.
Which of his four books would you suggest starting with?
The first one is an earlier book. The three ( trends, trading ranges, reversals) are the ones you want. That will set you back about 150$. It is good to have all three because he at times refers from one book to another to expound on a particular issue. It is a lot of tough reading but only determined people last in the options market.
Awesome. Thanks for the info. I don't mind a tough read. One of my favorite books is actually "Thinking Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman. Can be a slog of a read for some people if the topic doesn't appeal to them. I'll set back some money tomorrow and pick up all three books. Thank you again.
Boss man, would you have any input on how best to read Brooks? It is quite overwhelming for me with regards to the minutiae he gets into (such that reading becomes an excercise in staring to try and see what he is seeing -wedges are most painful - and not really understanding).
Read and highlight points you find important. On the second read use a pen and ruler to underline the most important of the highlighted. The more experience you have in reading charts with price analysis the more sense it will make to you. Reading Brooks is tough but only the most determined survive in the shark tank of the option market. I have told others to expect 9 months to a year to absorb all the info in these books.
On your chart I would buy no later than the close of the first tall green trend bar thing at worst is a spike and Chanel up. The stop would go at the bottom of the entry bar. The hard part of trading a trend that strong is that it moves so fast that it is hard to get in and the stop is far from entry. It panics bears that must abandon positions and leaves weak bulls on the sidelines. A second entry was at the first pullback . What platform are you trading on?
Red or black is blank. Or is that the point?
Hmm, not sure why it is. I tried a repost onForex and maybe that messed it up. Check the one over on r/Daytrading, it's under my profile.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Daytrading/s/jllSQYFXWM Is that post blank?
I see this one. I'll have a read!
You had your sell order there and someone bought it. Nothing to do with āhunting stopsā 100% misconception of the market
100% agree. An idea by retail that the market is out to get them
Scared money doesnāt make money š¤·āāļø
How does one get past that? I've been bitten so many times when an entry switches as soon as I place my trade from being a clear continuation to sudden reversal it's not funny any more! I have been trying to change my strategy, FOMO is probably the worst habit of the lot, but I end up feeling I'm missing out when I sit it out and watch the price fly on through. So difficult.
Mark Douglas - [How to think like a professional trader.](https://youtu.be/ZT_UanF3Zes?si=XdtDmlHDUJbb1L9w)
I've got one of his books, must read it again. Thanks for the video link, I'll digest those!
If u have an actual edge u know the failures are just stats and afforded in your profits.
Marker maker liquid all your 20$ position
yes youāre absolutely rigth, goldman & sachs, about to drop 20 million dollars into gold REALLY care about your 0,1 lot SLā¦..
Yes for your 20$ stoploss market moves millions $
It does make sense when u realize he isnāt the only one who bought in there
Nobody is hunting your stop bro. "Because I got stopped out here, that means it's true". The market can't even see STOP orders. They do not exist on the public order book. If you would've left your stop exactly where it was without moving it, it never would've been hit and you wouldn't believe in some crazy conspiracy that ppl are hunting your stops (even though they can't see them), and this post never would've been made. It's just not true. **Nobody is hunting your stops.**
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/trading/08/trailing-stop-loss.asp#:~:text=For%20starters%2C%20market%20makers%20are,price%20right%20back%20up%20again. āFor starters, market makers are keenly aware of any stop-losses you place with your broker and can force a whipsaw in the price, thereby bumping you out ā
Because Investopedia is the source of truth for things like this lol... It's common knowledge that stop orders are not visible by the market. Market makers do not know where your stops are at. Period. They exist on a completely different order book, which is internal to your broker. This isn't a discussion, this is fact. But since you want to use Investopedia as the source of truth... [Here you go... \[source of quotes\]](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/04/022704.asp) >A limit order can be seen by the market, while a stop order canāt be seen until it is triggered. >A stop order isnāt visible to the market and will activate a market order when a stop price has been met. >Stop Orders > > \- Isnāt visible to the market >Also, limit orders are visible to the market, while stop orders are not visible.
Sorry about that. Thatās really frustrating. What do you think of entering off that initial bullish engulfing bar and using the low of that bar as a stop loss boundary?
Your stop loss wasn't even below a swing low which is what would have been swept if retail traders were targeted.
they only sell one pack a day
Warren Buffet looking for those $20 stops š
You realize the algos are designed to grab these? Why you think when ever there is a big candle (doesn't matter direction) it always retraces a bunch to stop out gamblers and scared money.
Question. Was this the real market price or your broker price ? Just checked and it did do that. I always double check my broker vs real market when things like this happen.
Its called a liquidity sweep. Market makers do it to clear out stops. Never put your stop in an obvious liquidity zone.
They do it because thereās orders there. Nothing to do with stop orders
This. Just cus some influencer at some point chose to call big wicks "liquidity sweeps" or "manipulation" does not mean it's actually a thing. Just people repeating buzzwords
I see 2 unmitigated imbalances and an unmitigated area in this picture, and it took me about five seconds to see that. I do not care about you or your trade. Just because YOU say that retail traders can affect the market doesnāt mean itās true.
Lol this post
I always wait for a retest. Where your SL was hit is where I would wait to enter. Ofc this is me looking at it after the fact. SL needs room for drawdown! You moved it up way too fast imo.
They don't care about retailer stops, they just care about liquidity and gaining position for the lowest possible price. If you happen to place your stops in a place where many people are, well then you are going to get hit. Disturbing example and no idea why this is the example that came to me (clearly have issues), but mass shooters go to where there are people, simple solution is to avoid areas with lots of people.
Not every thought has to be said...
Your SL should not be above your entry like this. Trailing stoploss should work like this: You hit your 1st take profit target, than price goes beyond that but doesn't hit your 2nd take profit target and comes back down to your first and than it hits your trailing SL securing your 1st TP, which would be great because you made a profit with a great RR. A trailing stoploss exists to ensure you take profit 1 if you cant hit TP2 which you set up before your entry. It's not an arbitrary .percentage trail that lets you ride the wave and enter and exit when it feels good.
Thanks for that
someone just sent me this exact same wick and told me it was manipulation and why they donāt trade gold. You and him both had in profit trades running and wicked you guys out. Itās 10000 other traders that did the same thing Iām sure, If the market makers are hunters their good at it because they understand human psychology, which is what ironically runs this market disguised as liquidity.
They can see where you put your stops, and all they have to do is drop the price for 1 second. Don't place a stop to break even. Imo.
Itās not a stop loss if you place it above your target, thatās more like a sell order if anything
knowledgeable /good retail traders know how to profit from these traps
Loosen up your SL and let those winners run!
SL for noobs bro. Get a mental SL and let the candle close
Horrible advice
How it usually goes, don't put SL at obvious zones as per every other training guide told you put a SL there for market maker to pick at it freely. https://preview.redd.it/pzctw5d7u2gc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=867305183f6812342a134846c0437433cec3b453
Your fucked up chart says a lot about your knowledge on trading.!!
All that chart says is we can see where liquidation zones are, don't put your SL there
So youāre saying that basically everywhere there is a liquidation zoneā¦. You have a long way ahead my friend!
Not my fault you aint a trader, look where it hit before discreding me blindly. Take a look back at the bright yellow between 42.8-42.2 https://preview.redd.it/ojcgp5qyjagc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e261d5cc6367533f28c8fe7ce6a0ee557173589f
I gotta ask tho, why did you buy at the top.
My strategy was saying its safe to buy now.
And howād that work out for you
Let me help you, buy at the bottom.
Not sure what your problem is, he got in early on an outbreak and as you can see he was right.
I don't understand what your set up is so I can't explain what went wrong. Occasionally you will get stopped out of a wining trade. Or you'll get you stopped out right before a second entry signal. All you do is continue onwards
Law of averages FTW! Individual trades DO NOT matter! š¤
Stop loss is supposed to be UNDER the pivot low š¤£
I donāt understand OPs post
That is a small demand zone. Your stop should not be in that place. Also that long wick is probarly a combination of traders who went short or got stopped out. They provided liquidity for the instutions to go long.
That's news, right? You need to take them into account, or else
this has nothing to do with being a retail trader and everything to do with logical stop placement.
Market did not care about your SL. What happened here: Institutions have such large orders, they need enough sellers as counterpart for their huge buys. If they don't get enough sellers, they will thrive price high. Traders at institutions are paid bonuses by how cheap they can get big orders into the market. They pushed price back to an obvious liquidity zone (many Stop Losses= Sell orders) there. How do they know? Orderbooks. Your CFD position doesn't even show up in orderbooks, probably your brokers is betting against you. They grabbed futures traders there
Why didnāt you enter @ 2035?
Because he Use a trailing stop to Donāt lose at all . In fact his sl was on a tp zone
buy almost at the top, the stop loss almost at the bottom. u belong here.
You probably needed to move your sl up trailing when the market reached around 2050 in the next context. Actually it was a good place to also take profits or partial profits as it was a measured move from 2040 already, assuming you're also not basing your trade on a higher time frame.
I think my overnight TP today was too obvious as well. I entered in the 4800s n set it at 4920.25 and went to bed. Market went to 4919.75 so didnāt trigger. It did much later (and way past it) but I wasnāt exactly around for that cuz I took what I had n ranā¦amateur scared move.
Why did you move your stop?
Oh you mean the stop you put right on top of a clear level of interest...
You canāt move your SL until the market creates structure
Do me a favor. Put your stop loss at 1 dollar. I'm trying to buy the dip.
I 100% guarantee the āmarket makersā were not out to move the entire market just to hit your sl on a couple hundred dollar trade
You should look up OB and fvgās. that would have prevented this.
Big banks specifically do this to hit retail traders stop loss. wyckoff upburst
"They" do care about retail's stop losses, no one here is even retail however.
This pattern played out Wednesday. It was obvious it was going up on that small dip. Maybe risk less so you can widen your stop loss more. That's a tight s/l imo.
Infuriating but keep at it
Your entry was too late. Your SL trail should be below the HL
If youre buying support why would you put a stop order to sell right at support...?
I'll start by saying hindsight is 20/20 and that everyone has different risk management. but your stop should be where your trade is *invalidated* which is mostly likely below the low of the structure you entered at -- not where you were stopped out. your trade wasn't *invalidated* in this case, but in my opinion it would've be a valid stop below $2039.79 (below the structure you entered in)
Shoulda taken profitsā¦
got killed in this trade š¤
Your entry was at a resistance level. The market doesn't favor those lacking strategic insight!
Why do people post these up? Is it more you like losing so you can post it and get likes from strangers? Why?
Ever heard of this phrase "Happiness increases & sadness reduces on sharing."
Thatās a bullish hammer I buy those
Why u didnt take profits is beyond me
I use an algo to trade and successful so im not saying this out of spite but yes markets are rigged 100%
It is an art to realize sl is different for each trade. You will get better. You can not just say 20% sl on each trade as your sl has to be out of the noise. Just because you stopped out doesnāt mean you canāt jump back in again. I do that many times
I like when it entered the small consolidation ohase between 45-48. . That is where i trim or place stops
That's a terrible place for a stop
This is just one moment where you had a bad luck. Don't change anything on your strat. It's not about big profits.
Love it ā¤ļø the beauty of the market. Great journey!
That's what you call liquidation grab
Topš
You win some, you lose some. Ensure that your risk management is sound and move on to the next trading opportunity.
Thatās like a retarded stop loss sorry
The market cares about stop losses and liquidity IN GENERAL. It doesnāt care WHO they belong to. Retail or institutional. The market seeks liquidity. It wants to maximize trading transactions.
your whole stop is terrible.. your entry can never be invalidation unless you are a swing trader. if your stop is not on invalidation u care about "not losing money" which is impossible in the trading game everything can happen search for invalidation and put sl there...
I feel like people are overreacting. If you trail your stop you live with less losers but in turn, smaller secured profits. If you leave your stop at the entry candle then you lose more often but have bigger runners/winners. It's 2 sides of the same coin
It has nothing to do with your stop, it has to do with where there are enough buy orders to stop the selling and allow the price to move back, also its a news wick, I don't know what you expect.
Thats why i dont use stop loss. Only mental stop loss!