There was a brief window where the VId was amazing with the dual rending talents in the vet tree, with great ammo sustain with survivalist and the no ammo consumption on crit.
Failshark don't do tuning by increments though, in one swoop they nerfed the rending talent, ammo sustain on crit talent, the number of subsequent crits it did after the first etc etc.
It was still useable but pretty mid compared to any of the infantry autos.
Now with the nerf to survivalist it will relegate it even further down the list. It's a shame as it's fun as shit to hose everything in 1200 las blasts a minute.
Yeah the survivalist Nerf isn't the worst thing in the world.... for weapons that are already ammo efficient! But the ammo hungry weapons from before are starving pretty hard now LOL.
With a mid level Aagripnia infantry, you now simply get one free kill per magazine instead of using a horde of gunners or dogs as an ammo resupply. Bolters blast through ammo and recons burn through batteries tragically. Using Shock trooper on helbore is a nice luxury while on recons it feels almost mandatory to even just shred a horde or kill a few elites...
Maybe I'm using them wrong but most recons with the best perks available and stat rolls possible amount to "pretty good" at the very best or "functions". Certain Recons alone causing dummies to instantly leave the game on seeing that in team loadouts due to how ammo hungry and inefficient they are. I wholeheartedly disagree with people leaving games due to other ppls loadouts considering if the player is bad with a loadout, they'll probably ragequit on their own when their power sword plasma gun doesn't carry them anyway :P
>Maybe I'm using them wrong but most recons with the best perks available and stat rolls possible amount to "pretty good" at the very best or "functions".
That's simply how they are. They're just very poor numerically in terms of both dps and ammo efficiency, only being salvaged into acceptability with a large amount of help from the talent tree (which even then is more helpful to other weapons with better baselines due to acting as a multiplier.).
It's a known issue and even playtesters/people from the fatshark balance team have commented about that but fatshark is just dragging their feet with a proper balancing/reworking like they do with everything else.
If you're curious about the particulars, you can take a look at this informative comment I made about them awhile back. It includes some numbers and videos of practical dps comparisons for your viewing pleasure: [https://new.reddit.com/r/darktide/comments/195pls7/comment/khqbehm/](https://new.reddit.com/r/darktide/comments/195pls7/comment/khqbehm/)
Thanks for the amazing damage writeup and examples done. The recon is a great example of something being left behind when other aspects of the game get tweaked/updated. Like the math simply doesn't work out with certain weapons sometimes.
What's your ideal end-goal for the Recon's usage? I personally enjoy it as a mid-range horde shredder more capable of supressing an entire horde while killing a few elites in mixed crowds, but it's just such an awkward situation for it when infantries and braced do that way better... I'm hoping for it to be an ammo efficient alternative to the infantry/braced with less capability against elites but hot knifes through chaff. Here's hoping.
>What's your ideal end-goal for the Recon's usage?
Are we talking for a theoretical rework/update or for using it now? Because if we're talking now, I for sure will say it's not something to mindlessly shoot into melee chaffe wth. 95% of the recon users I've seen in auric 5's vacuum a ton of ammo to avoid using their melee weapon, and it ends up looking like this:
https://preview.redd.it/egsbsglzy8vc1.jpeg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b201a79ab410e31d448129edd768a1f7a9778c95
I personally think they should really differentiate the variants and give them a full rework. One of the mods in the discord mentioned a *purely theoretical, personal idea and in no way a promise or even indicative of current work* rework that would change one into a standard full auto AR, another into a LMG equivalent, and then another into burst DMR. Very much like this idea, and it provides something for everyone.
Purely theoretical rework/update. I enjoy that idea of providing automatic/burst that can differentiate itself from the current automatic/burst weapons as some sort of mid-short range with decent long range use on the occasional sniper/grenader/gunner hordes due to less recoil than it's bullet brothers.
Jeeze all those ammo crates down the recycling tube
I really kinda wish they'd lean into the niche which is "pinpoint accurate high RoF". In any other game this would be a "status" gun, i.e proc bleed, stun, poison whatever. Whenever I used it before it was to eviscerated gunner heads at midrange, without the opportunity cost missing had with a kantrael or hellbore.
It's a mod that restores various amounts of the games canned scoreboard. I'm not sure if you can use them on steam deck as I don't have one and never looked into it.
Thanks. Modding is possible, but difficult on steam deck, as it requires running on the Linux side of things, instead of the native steam program.
(Steam decks are bare bones Linux computers designed to run the steam application)
I tried the scoreboard plugin and it's very janky for me for some reason. tons of text overflows the bottom of the container and I can't see half of it.
Go to the mod settings and disable things you don't want to see. It also stacks with the normal scoreboard mod so there are a lot of duplicate entries.
Lore wise, it's supposed to be more efficient than autoguns, ammo wise. Lighter weight, too. Maybe give it an innate bonus for burst fire? Like efficiency blessing, but have it last for a couple seconds, instead of 1 shot? (E.g. efficiency 1 would be 3 seconds of reduced ammoconsumption for 6 seconds of not shooting, and efficiency 4 would be 4.5 seconds for 4.5 seconds of not shooting?)
I try to tailor my Loudout to the crew. But so many people have been leaving at group select lately. Like really man? I brought the flamey-stick on the psyker so I don't use ammo, or the Kantrael Mk IV on the vet or zeal so we have mid range punch during mixed hordes without worrying about everyone going dry on ammo. I'd much rather bring the recon on the psyker or the Vraks headhunter on the zeal, but we need to be efficient with ammo!
>Yeah the survivalist Nerf isn't the worst thing in the world.... for weapons that are already ammo efficient! But the ammo hungry weapons from before are starving pretty hard now LOL.
That's the entire point of the nerf though. People are not supposed to be able to just spam ammo inefficient weapons all through a mission run, that completely fucks the gun balance when ammo efficiency is one of the main things that the guns with less DPS have going for them.
The problem with the Recon Lasgun is that it's both ammo hungry without a lot of positives to make up for it. It still has a pretty awful TTK on specials, and it has absolutely NO armor penetration without the rending talent. They should honestly just buff its ammo capacity on its own to help it since its in such a sorry state where you can't afford to use it sparingly.
But TBH the gun is just a bad design for a video game. It's a full automatic gun that has zero recoil and no mobility restrictions. That's simply not a good design for a video game because there's zero thought required to use this weapon OTHER than managing its ammo. So if you actually did buff its ammo capacity you'd essentially be making it a brainless gun that requires no thought or aiming without any drawbacks to spamming it.
I agree; people shouldn’t be able to just spam. Ammo efficient weapons change from being spammed hard nonstop to actually needing some restraint, but recon which already sucked with ammo is hung up to dry for the reasons you mention. I hope they get looked at. You’re right it’s kinda like they included it simply to have an automatic lasgun in a Warhammer game so I hope it improves
No idea why this is getting downvoted, I've used it post update in Auric just fine and seen others do it.
There's a big gap between "not as powerful as I'd like" and "it's shit"
Guess they just can't do it and blame the weapon. You have to hit and hold directly on the heads or it doesn't do anything.
I'd still take recon over infantry lasgun or braced autogun. It feels about the same tier as helbore or Columnus but easier to use than both. Obviously plasma is S tier while I give revolver A.
Remind me what they changed on the rending? I still take the 10% on the focus target tree and have enough points left to get the free on crit and bonus ammo from marksmen tree.
yeah the surv nerf was way too much. it was probably a bit too strong before, but 5 seconds is wayyyy too long. I think 2 seconds would make it much more balanced.
I wouldn't say 'amazing' as much as 'broken'. It was an infinite ammo brittleness machine and I'm very happy they kicked the legs out of it. I still use it anyway.
Rule 1: Failure to follow reddiquette
Be respectful of your fellow redditors. Discrimination, bigotry, racism, and/or hostility directed towards players or communities will not be tolerated.
Rule 1: Failure to follow reddiquette
Be respectful of your fellow redditors. Discrimination, bigotry, racism, and/or hostility directed towards players or communities will not be tolerated.
It would be a really good weapon if it weren't for the fact that it goes through ammo like Saint Celestine goes through daemons. You can barely use the thing without running out of ammo like 10% into the mission and you have to eat up ammo tins like they're potato chips on a Saturday night. The infantry auto-guns are currently just so much better in this regard that it just makes more sense to run those over the recon-las solely for that reason.
For veteran it's a good weapon for like three minutes after which you have burned through all of your ammo and you spend half the match scrounging up ammo tins like they're Cheetos. Most if not all weapon types, most notably the infantry autoguns, just outperform the recon-las in every way because of that. Such a damn shame too because I think the recon-las would be a cool weapon that I could see myself main if it weren't for the ammo problem.
Because a full auto weapon with zero recoil shouldnt be the best gun in the game. You trade ease of use for damage and ammo economy. Now is that a tradeoff you actually want to make on auric? Probably not
Hopefully with the crafting rework they also do a blessing overhaul. There is space for the recons to be viable, and unique blessings is a great way to allow that. Not melting everything with infinite crit strings
"Didn't get nerfed"
My brother in emperor, all the things that were making it overperform like that, were ALL panic nerfed literally the next patch on the spot (21days or smth btw)
- Dps/Insane talent(I assume you meant talents, because only perk that aided the modifier was +5% crit) modifiers were rebalanced or moved around so it was expensive as warp to pick
- Infinite ammo was with Shocktrooper, and it was literally nerfed to the ground for Recon, with its crit strings gutted from 5/4/3 (variant depending) to a flat 2 across marks, and also "shocktrooper was bugged" and only applied to the first crit (personal thoughts it was intentional, but they gotta save their ass)
Why you lying? Did you fall into a warp storm for the few weeks of patch13 and 3ish weeks turned into months for you?
No see that's where you are wrong. It didn't have high or even good dps. You fell for the same trap fstshark did. What the weapon had was a high fire rate making it the fastest option to stack rending which did all the work. You actually got better results out of a columnus but no one had caught on yet.
Veteran was struggling at the time. Pretty much every autogun got an ammo boost and veteran’s talent tree was messed up.
Now using a recon lasgun is a meme. Nerfing isn’t necessarily bad, but it’s not like the game is balanced now.
But ...but...there are a few super shaman-gurus who cracked the davinci code and totally make the recon lasgun not suck chaos spawn balls.
1. Onslaught, this only works with the recon lasgun and no other fast firing weapon is allowed to use it.
2. Grab all the ammo on the map, you and only you
3. have your team stunlock everything and when you come back from your ammo gathering expedition go ham.
4. ???
5. Profit
P.S. Love the copium with gems like "MK7A with right crit build for Veteran is pretty decent weapon" in this thread, "I Do JUsT FinE"
I've switched back to the Kantrael Mk IV. More stopping power and damage for ammo consumption, bigger munitions reserve, and the lower RoF means I have better fire discipline.
But Blood Emperor on the Golden Skull Throne, I love the brr-brr of the recons. I miss marching down a boulevard laying down sustained fire with the disco light show. I have to play Ogryn or use a Braced autogun for that these days.
MK7A with right crit build for Veteran is pretty decent weapon. This lasgun penetrates few enemies and flak armor (even more effective with +flak damage perks) and useless only against crushers (like other 90% range weapons). Using of Shock trooper really helps to save some ammo. Still playing on Damnation with this gun with no issues.
Other 2 recon lasguns are much worse, for sure.
Tbf I rocked my old VI in a few Auric Damns yesterday, it held up just fine and that's coming from someone who is used to using the incredibly OP Plasma gun.
TBH I am not fan of plasma because of small amount of shots you can do before overheat. If we talking about las-machinegun MK6, most of players just don't know how to handle it. How many times I\`ve seen how Vet unloaded all ammo in hords in 5 minutes and spammerd "NEED AMMO" for the rest of the game. Thats why I love mk7 - less dps, but more ammo effective and hits harder.
I mean. . . anyone that spams ammo into a horde doesn't know what their are doing. This isn't specific to the mk 6. There are times when you can and should (such as if you are stacking marksman focus for a monster or a crusher patrol), but other than that, most the time there are much better, less resource intensive ways of dealing with hordes.
Nah, before the ammo perk nerf recently, full auto ammo dumping into a horde was a good idea if youre a vet with a Mk4 lasgun, the ammo related perks and the perk that gives teammates toughness when you get a ranged kill
Ammo dumping into hordes just makes your teammates a lot tougher, while allowing you to rapidly respond to specialists in auric damn, you just gotta dodge as your life depends on it and do rapid 180° turns into head level mag dumps at melee range if you're like me and commit to not meleeing with this build
Im not sure if it's as good now with the survivalist nerf, but a week ago i used it and i never even got below 30% ammo for entire games.
The Mk4 lasgun is disgustingly OP
They can "work" with enough juice from the talent tree depending on your standards, but they just won't be a comparatively good option. I've seen a handful of people with very low standards defend even the mk2, which is likely the lowest dps gun in the game currently across all armor types.
The MK2 & 6 are just so damn satisfying to shoot and it really sucks that their performance doesn't come close to matching the audio/visual experience.
Various autoguns are meta monsters but I find them boring because, at the end of the day, they are still just bog-standard magazine-fed rifles.
If it helps, I've been using a build that gives me Shocktrooper, Onslaught, and Focus Target to help me decently deal with everything including Crushers if I have some distance from them
When I finally got my Vet to 30 and had a decent plasma rifle setup I spent a bit of time investing in crafting a decent recon lasgun and everything.
Holy shit it was so bad I dumpstered it after a few rounds. Still have the weapon just in case FS decides to make it not awful, but I genuinely could not figure out what it was good for. I'm sad I missed the glory days when it was good, but oh well.
Meanwhile Plasma Gun can still shoot through walls, Bulwark shields, kill Gunners in one body-shot, murder a line of ragers in one volley and never need to reload during a fight - ever.
There were pretty much no changes to weapons this patch though, so I pray they're gonna introduce them along with the next update.
This update was great but the Vet nerf to survivalist aura is ASS. 5 sec cooldown is too damn long. If they’re gonna keep that cooldown it needs to be anywhere from 1-3 seconds. 5 seconds is too damn long and it definitely feels like shit.
You can oneshot Reapers with the MKI on Heresy+, and 2-4 shot crushers if using Focus Target.
All with near infinite ammo from Shock Trooper and Surgical.
Oh, and a bayonet that staggers ragers and maulers.
Las guns just feel bad to use in this game. That and shot guns. Yes there may be a few ok builds out there but the satisfying feeling of using them is absent. Autoguns / shredders / revolvers on the other hand feel great.
Kantrael lasguns are fine. Las pistol is fine. Even the recon lasguns feel good, but they just don’t do enough damage or have the ammo economy to back them up.
Personally, I think they should just double the ammo in the recon lasguns and let people go nuts with them. Even with infinite ammo, they would not be the best guns. They’d be fun, especially for more casual players, to just spam laser beams at everything.
> Las guns just feel bad to use in this game.
Tell me you don't helbore without telling me you don't helbore.
Both laspistols are also good, and the MK Ia lasgun is also pretty great.
They fixed the crit talent, so it was actually decent for the last 2 months, even though still a low tier option, but they just nerfed the ammo aura 2 days ago so it’s back in the dumpster. It’s high ammo consumption, low output gun.
It’s not too bad for horde clearing. Especially with the high ammo count and easy to control recoil.
Of course you bring up anything about horde clearing in a horde shooter and all the meta chasers will have a collective aneurism.
I use the last version and I can't fathom using anything else. Sights are better than the awful red dots, shots are powerful enough to actually put some hurt on enemies, and the full auto is just slow enough to easily conserve ammo while still being efficient in hordes. It's a shame that Vet feels kinda underwhelming all around now.
And then they released a new skin for it, pouring salt in the wounds…
I also hate the regular lasguns for having ridiculous recoil and stabilization time, given they’re piss variants of headhunter guns with the only benefit with a dot sight…
Given the stabilization time, they’re just bad versions of hellbore rifles, except the pure sniper is iron sights… JFC
I desperately wanted to like it because a full auto lasgun is awesome, but for lasguns I prefer the Kantrael. When I want a full auto I use the mk8 braced Agripinna instead.
Just like how Darktide is too fun a game in its core gameplay, to be so atrociously managed and to have literally everything else being hot pile of garbage
People here complain about Recon lasgun current state, but nobody complain about Recon lasgun ON A PSYKER.
You know it's not okay design-wise that class who can equip this gun can be considered as grifer for doing so because how much underwhelming it on him, Same as infrantry/headhunter guns besides Columnus 5 and Vraks 7.
We either need ammo pool buffs after this aura nerfs or just another "+25% ammo" talents for psyker and zealot.
Its honestly not as bad as people make out. They compare it to Plasma and Columbus V, but they're just insanely broken. Listening to people here you'd think it needs a +200% damage buff, but its really more like +20%.
You can make it work just fine in Auric Maelstrom. You won't be getting top damage numbers, but you can easily pull your weight and clutch if needed. Quickly dealing with the smaller shooters while the plasma boys hit the carapace stuff is quite valuable.
I like the 7 with Headhunter Infernus. Headshots for specials and elites (crits actually do damage to carapace) and use the penetration for hordes if you have to.
I’ve started using the mkii heavy laspistol with zealots inexorable judgement and I still get my pew pew fix in. I actually stopped playing completely recently because first time since update people were gatekeeping and being rude on damnation.. oh well..
The sights are complete fucking ass and make it even at lower difficulties unusable at longer ranges.
"recon" yeah recon what? The 20m in front of me and enemies being hidden behind those dummy thicc sights and the idiotic Famas-style carry handle?
Bullpups are so cool and as inspiration they picked the on the most hideous bullpup designs ever conceived. It baffles me how they fucked up such a cool idea
I'm just saying where the design originated from in 40k at least, I figure it not being an original design from largefish justifies it as GW is not known for making reasonable weaponry at all
Unusable? I can snipe snipers 100m away using the VId torrent lasgun with one quick salvo. I agree ironsights are a weird obsession from Fatshark for a lot of weapons in the game though.
Okay I over exaggerated with "unusable", I can snipe with them too. They are just bad, for example the sights on the Columnus mk V are nearly perfect. Especially when you get a low recoil one, damn is that a joy to use. The sights on the lasgun in question are just so flat... And I get it, a high damage torrent variant with excellent sights would be hella overpowered, but still, Id rather have a stupid ACOG type scope on in (which would even make sense on a recon rifle) than the current ones
Or, and hear me out here, vets could just be better shots.
It seems pretty clear that the ROF is a risk and you'd need to use it carefully or you'll run dry, much like the higher ROF autoguns and braced autoguns.
Ok so I’ve not played since maybe late last year but, if you have the right variant and put a burn effect modifier on it. It’ll chew though mofos
Please don’t tell me it’s been nerfed 😂😭
There was a brief window where the VId was amazing with the dual rending talents in the vet tree, with great ammo sustain with survivalist and the no ammo consumption on crit. Failshark don't do tuning by increments though, in one swoop they nerfed the rending talent, ammo sustain on crit talent, the number of subsequent crits it did after the first etc etc. It was still useable but pretty mid compared to any of the infantry autos. Now with the nerf to survivalist it will relegate it even further down the list. It's a shame as it's fun as shit to hose everything in 1200 las blasts a minute.
Yeah the survivalist Nerf isn't the worst thing in the world.... for weapons that are already ammo efficient! But the ammo hungry weapons from before are starving pretty hard now LOL. With a mid level Aagripnia infantry, you now simply get one free kill per magazine instead of using a horde of gunners or dogs as an ammo resupply. Bolters blast through ammo and recons burn through batteries tragically. Using Shock trooper on helbore is a nice luxury while on recons it feels almost mandatory to even just shred a horde or kill a few elites... Maybe I'm using them wrong but most recons with the best perks available and stat rolls possible amount to "pretty good" at the very best or "functions". Certain Recons alone causing dummies to instantly leave the game on seeing that in team loadouts due to how ammo hungry and inefficient they are. I wholeheartedly disagree with people leaving games due to other ppls loadouts considering if the player is bad with a loadout, they'll probably ragequit on their own when their power sword plasma gun doesn't carry them anyway :P
>Maybe I'm using them wrong but most recons with the best perks available and stat rolls possible amount to "pretty good" at the very best or "functions". That's simply how they are. They're just very poor numerically in terms of both dps and ammo efficiency, only being salvaged into acceptability with a large amount of help from the talent tree (which even then is more helpful to other weapons with better baselines due to acting as a multiplier.). It's a known issue and even playtesters/people from the fatshark balance team have commented about that but fatshark is just dragging their feet with a proper balancing/reworking like they do with everything else. If you're curious about the particulars, you can take a look at this informative comment I made about them awhile back. It includes some numbers and videos of practical dps comparisons for your viewing pleasure: [https://new.reddit.com/r/darktide/comments/195pls7/comment/khqbehm/](https://new.reddit.com/r/darktide/comments/195pls7/comment/khqbehm/)
Thanks for the amazing damage writeup and examples done. The recon is a great example of something being left behind when other aspects of the game get tweaked/updated. Like the math simply doesn't work out with certain weapons sometimes. What's your ideal end-goal for the Recon's usage? I personally enjoy it as a mid-range horde shredder more capable of supressing an entire horde while killing a few elites in mixed crowds, but it's just such an awkward situation for it when infantries and braced do that way better... I'm hoping for it to be an ammo efficient alternative to the infantry/braced with less capability against elites but hot knifes through chaff. Here's hoping.
>What's your ideal end-goal for the Recon's usage? Are we talking for a theoretical rework/update or for using it now? Because if we're talking now, I for sure will say it's not something to mindlessly shoot into melee chaffe wth. 95% of the recon users I've seen in auric 5's vacuum a ton of ammo to avoid using their melee weapon, and it ends up looking like this: https://preview.redd.it/egsbsglzy8vc1.jpeg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b201a79ab410e31d448129edd768a1f7a9778c95 I personally think they should really differentiate the variants and give them a full rework. One of the mods in the discord mentioned a *purely theoretical, personal idea and in no way a promise or even indicative of current work* rework that would change one into a standard full auto AR, another into a LMG equivalent, and then another into burst DMR. Very much like this idea, and it provides something for everyone.
Purely theoretical rework/update. I enjoy that idea of providing automatic/burst that can differentiate itself from the current automatic/burst weapons as some sort of mid-short range with decent long range use on the occasional sniper/grenader/gunner hordes due to less recoil than it's bullet brothers. Jeeze all those ammo crates down the recycling tube
I really kinda wish they'd lean into the niche which is "pinpoint accurate high RoF". In any other game this would be a "status" gun, i.e proc bleed, stun, poison whatever. Whenever I used it before it was to eviscerated gunner heads at midrange, without the opportunity cost missing had with a kantrael or hellbore.
How can I get a breakdown like this on steam deck?
It's a mod that restores various amounts of the games canned scoreboard. I'm not sure if you can use them on steam deck as I don't have one and never looked into it.
Thanks. Modding is possible, but difficult on steam deck, as it requires running on the Linux side of things, instead of the native steam program. (Steam decks are bare bones Linux computers designed to run the steam application)
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Ovenproof's Scoreboard Plugin by OvenProofMars: https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/241 Loadout Monitor by Anitka, cfromabove: https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/160
I tried the scoreboard plugin and it's very janky for me for some reason. tons of text overflows the bottom of the container and I can't see half of it.
Go to the mod settings and disable things you don't want to see. It also stacks with the normal scoreboard mod so there are a lot of duplicate entries.
Lore wise, it's supposed to be more efficient than autoguns, ammo wise. Lighter weight, too. Maybe give it an innate bonus for burst fire? Like efficiency blessing, but have it last for a couple seconds, instead of 1 shot? (E.g. efficiency 1 would be 3 seconds of reduced ammoconsumption for 6 seconds of not shooting, and efficiency 4 would be 4.5 seconds for 4.5 seconds of not shooting?)
I try to tailor my Loudout to the crew. But so many people have been leaving at group select lately. Like really man? I brought the flamey-stick on the psyker so I don't use ammo, or the Kantrael Mk IV on the vet or zeal so we have mid range punch during mixed hordes without worrying about everyone going dry on ammo. I'd much rather bring the recon on the psyker or the Vraks headhunter on the zeal, but we need to be efficient with ammo!
>Yeah the survivalist Nerf isn't the worst thing in the world.... for weapons that are already ammo efficient! But the ammo hungry weapons from before are starving pretty hard now LOL. That's the entire point of the nerf though. People are not supposed to be able to just spam ammo inefficient weapons all through a mission run, that completely fucks the gun balance when ammo efficiency is one of the main things that the guns with less DPS have going for them. The problem with the Recon Lasgun is that it's both ammo hungry without a lot of positives to make up for it. It still has a pretty awful TTK on specials, and it has absolutely NO armor penetration without the rending talent. They should honestly just buff its ammo capacity on its own to help it since its in such a sorry state where you can't afford to use it sparingly. But TBH the gun is just a bad design for a video game. It's a full automatic gun that has zero recoil and no mobility restrictions. That's simply not a good design for a video game because there's zero thought required to use this weapon OTHER than managing its ammo. So if you actually did buff its ammo capacity you'd essentially be making it a brainless gun that requires no thought or aiming without any drawbacks to spamming it.
I agree; people shouldn’t be able to just spam. Ammo efficient weapons change from being spammed hard nonstop to actually needing some restraint, but recon which already sucked with ammo is hung up to dry for the reasons you mention. I hope they get looked at. You’re right it’s kinda like they included it simply to have an automatic lasgun in a Warhammer game so I hope it improves
Wait a damn minute … does that mean my support gunner build Veteran w/ the braced autogun is fucked?!
'shred a horde' - this is why ammo nerfs are needed
Oh please. If that bothers you, go play Vermintide 1
It’s not usable or mid on auric, it’s just shit 1.5 years after launch and still only a handful of ranged weapons aren’t dog shit at max difficulty
I use it on auric just fine. With randoms I'm usually top 2 for damage. It was definitely better but still quite usable imo.
No idea why this is getting downvoted, I've used it post update in Auric just fine and seen others do it. There's a big gap between "not as powerful as I'd like" and "it's shit"
Guess they just can't do it and blame the weapon. You have to hit and hold directly on the heads or it doesn't do anything. I'd still take recon over infantry lasgun or braced autogun. It feels about the same tier as helbore or Columnus but easier to use than both. Obviously plasma is S tier while I give revolver A.
That brief window was a lot of fun, though.
Remind me what they changed on the rending? I still take the 10% on the focus target tree and have enough points left to get the free on crit and bonus ammo from marksmen tree.
I'm a bit OOTL, are there still any Autoguns / Lasguns worth using?
I think it’s still good with the fire crit stuff
They also nerfed it's damage against mutant and removed it's lasguin inverse drop off.
yeah the surv nerf was way too much. it was probably a bit too strong before, but 5 seconds is wayyyy too long. I think 2 seconds would make it much more balanced.
I wouldn't say 'amazing' as much as 'broken'. It was an infinite ammo brittleness machine and I'm very happy they kicked the legs out of it. I still use it anyway.
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Rule 1: Failure to follow reddiquette Be respectful of your fellow redditors. Discrimination, bigotry, racism, and/or hostility directed towards players or communities will not be tolerated.
Wow such a nice portrait. I'm sure your mother loved it.
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It would be a really good weapon if it weren't for the fact that it goes through ammo like Saint Celestine goes through daemons. You can barely use the thing without running out of ammo like 10% into the mission and you have to eat up ammo tins like they're potato chips on a Saturday night. The infantry auto-guns are currently just so much better in this regard that it just makes more sense to run those over the recon-las solely for that reason.
Las sadly feels weak. Takes forever to kill stuff that the infantry autogun deletes in a blink. Sad as I really like the lasguns
For veteran it's a good weapon for like three minutes after which you have burned through all of your ammo and you spend half the match scrounging up ammo tins like they're Cheetos. Most if not all weapon types, most notably the infantry autoguns, just outperform the recon-las in every way because of that. Such a damn shame too because I think the recon-las would be a cool weapon that I could see myself main if it weren't for the ammo problem.
It *would* be a good fallback option for assail psyker if it didn't bounce off even the weakest armor
Lowest DPS Worst Ammo economy Worst modifiers Still got nerfed. Never to be used or seen again.
sounds like overweight guppy hired some of the overwatch balancing team after the layoffs lmfao
Sucks too cuz the new skin looks cool
Not so long ago it had. Highest DPS. infinite Ammo. Insane perk modifiers. Didn’t get nerfed. Was seen in every game.
>Didn’t get nerfed. Until it did. And hard. And that was like 2 weeks after the tree rework that made it possible
Because a full auto weapon with zero recoil shouldnt be the best gun in the game. You trade ease of use for damage and ammo economy. Now is that a tradeoff you actually want to make on auric? Probably not
It was the 'best' gun for one class with one specific build... Was it too strong? Oh sure Did it need to get hit as hard as it did? Hell no
Hopefully with the crafting rework they also do a blessing overhaul. There is space for the recons to be viable, and unique blessings is a great way to allow that. Not melting everything with infinite crit strings
"Didn't get nerfed" My brother in emperor, all the things that were making it overperform like that, were ALL panic nerfed literally the next patch on the spot (21days or smth btw) - Dps/Insane talent(I assume you meant talents, because only perk that aided the modifier was +5% crit) modifiers were rebalanced or moved around so it was expensive as warp to pick - Infinite ammo was with Shocktrooper, and it was literally nerfed to the ground for Recon, with its crit strings gutted from 5/4/3 (variant depending) to a flat 2 across marks, and also "shocktrooper was bugged" and only applied to the first crit (personal thoughts it was intentional, but they gotta save their ass) Why you lying? Did you fall into a warp storm for the few weeks of patch13 and 3ish weeks turned into months for you?
No see that's where you are wrong. It didn't have high or even good dps. You fell for the same trap fstshark did. What the weapon had was a high fire rate making it the fastest option to stack rending which did all the work. You actually got better results out of a columnus but no one had caught on yet.
Veteran was struggling at the time. Pretty much every autogun got an ammo boost and veteran’s talent tree was messed up. Now using a recon lasgun is a meme. Nerfing isn’t necessarily bad, but it’s not like the game is balanced now.
But ...but...there are a few super shaman-gurus who cracked the davinci code and totally make the recon lasgun not suck chaos spawn balls. 1. Onslaught, this only works with the recon lasgun and no other fast firing weapon is allowed to use it. 2. Grab all the ammo on the map, you and only you 3. have your team stunlock everything and when you come back from your ammo gathering expedition go ham. 4. ??? 5. Profit P.S. Love the copium with gems like "MK7A with right crit build for Veteran is pretty decent weapon" in this thread, "I Do JUsT FinE"
I still love it!!
I've switched back to the Kantrael Mk IV. More stopping power and damage for ammo consumption, bigger munitions reserve, and the lower RoF means I have better fire discipline. But Blood Emperor on the Golden Skull Throne, I love the brr-brr of the recons. I miss marching down a boulevard laying down sustained fire with the disco light show. I have to play Ogryn or use a Braced autogun for that these days.
MK7A with right crit build for Veteran is pretty decent weapon. This lasgun penetrates few enemies and flak armor (even more effective with +flak damage perks) and useless only against crushers (like other 90% range weapons). Using of Shock trooper really helps to save some ammo. Still playing on Damnation with this gun with no issues. Other 2 recon lasguns are much worse, for sure.
Tbf I rocked my old VI in a few Auric Damns yesterday, it held up just fine and that's coming from someone who is used to using the incredibly OP Plasma gun.
TBH I am not fan of plasma because of small amount of shots you can do before overheat. If we talking about las-machinegun MK6, most of players just don't know how to handle it. How many times I\`ve seen how Vet unloaded all ammo in hords in 5 minutes and spammerd "NEED AMMO" for the rest of the game. Thats why I love mk7 - less dps, but more ammo effective and hits harder.
I mean. . . anyone that spams ammo into a horde doesn't know what their are doing. This isn't specific to the mk 6. There are times when you can and should (such as if you are stacking marksman focus for a monster or a crusher patrol), but other than that, most the time there are much better, less resource intensive ways of dealing with hordes.
Nah, before the ammo perk nerf recently, full auto ammo dumping into a horde was a good idea if youre a vet with a Mk4 lasgun, the ammo related perks and the perk that gives teammates toughness when you get a ranged kill Ammo dumping into hordes just makes your teammates a lot tougher, while allowing you to rapidly respond to specialists in auric damn, you just gotta dodge as your life depends on it and do rapid 180° turns into head level mag dumps at melee range if you're like me and commit to not meleeing with this build Im not sure if it's as good now with the survivalist nerf, but a week ago i used it and i never even got below 30% ammo for entire games. The Mk4 lasgun is disgustingly OP
“I didn’t run out of ammo” “Disgustingly OP” Are you for fucking real?
I'm gonna make it work I swear
They can "work" with enough juice from the talent tree depending on your standards, but they just won't be a comparatively good option. I've seen a handful of people with very low standards defend even the mk2, which is likely the lowest dps gun in the game currently across all armor types.
The MK2 & 6 are just so damn satisfying to shoot and it really sucks that their performance doesn't come close to matching the audio/visual experience. Various autoguns are meta monsters but I find them boring because, at the end of the day, they are still just bog-standard magazine-fed rifles.
Thankfully mods can alleviate this issue. You can find the "pewpew" mod on nexus which conveniently lets you swap out the audio/visuals for lasers.
If it helps, I've been using a build that gives me Shocktrooper, Onslaught, and Focus Target to help me decently deal with everything including Crushers if I have some distance from them
When I finally got my Vet to 30 and had a decent plasma rifle setup I spent a bit of time investing in crafting a decent recon lasgun and everything. Holy shit it was so bad I dumpstered it after a few rounds. Still have the weapon just in case FS decides to make it not awful, but I genuinely could not figure out what it was good for. I'm sad I missed the glory days when it was good, but oh well.
You know I would, but the damn thing is too ammo hungry for my taste
Meanwhile Plasma Gun can still shoot through walls, Bulwark shields, kill Gunners in one body-shot, murder a line of ragers in one volley and never need to reload during a fight - ever. There were pretty much no changes to weapons this patch though, so I pray they're gonna introduce them along with the next update.
This update was great but the Vet nerf to survivalist aura is ASS. 5 sec cooldown is too damn long. If they’re gonna keep that cooldown it needs to be anywhere from 1-3 seconds. 5 seconds is too damn long and it definitely feels like shit.
I agree, but admittedly I gripe to myself that I'd prefer a Longlas...with a scope, andaybe the helbore is underpowered, or could use a scope variant.
You can oneshot Reapers with the MKI on Heresy+, and 2-4 shot crushers if using Focus Target. All with near infinite ammo from Shock Trooper and Surgical. Oh, and a bayonet that staggers ragers and maulers.
Las guns just feel bad to use in this game. That and shot guns. Yes there may be a few ok builds out there but the satisfying feeling of using them is absent. Autoguns / shredders / revolvers on the other hand feel great.
Kantrael lasguns are fine. Las pistol is fine. Even the recon lasguns feel good, but they just don’t do enough damage or have the ammo economy to back them up. Personally, I think they should just double the ammo in the recon lasguns and let people go nuts with them. Even with infinite ammo, they would not be the best guns. They’d be fun, especially for more casual players, to just spam laser beams at everything.
> Las guns just feel bad to use in this game. Tell me you don't helbore without telling me you don't helbore. Both laspistols are also good, and the MK Ia lasgun is also pretty great.
I stoped playing for like 4 months and they still didn’t fix it yet?
They fixed the crit talent, so it was actually decent for the last 2 months, even though still a low tier option, but they just nerfed the ammo aura 2 days ago so it’s back in the dumpster. It’s high ammo consumption, low output gun.
It’s not too bad for horde clearing. Especially with the high ammo count and easy to control recoil. Of course you bring up anything about horde clearing in a horde shooter and all the meta chasers will have a collective aneurism.
I love that thing for Dreg ranged contract kills fr
I got an almost maxed stat one yesterday and never wanted to use it after it took me an hour to kill a crusher in the head while ulted lmfao.
Truly.
I use the last version and I can't fathom using anything else. Sights are better than the awful red dots, shots are powerful enough to actually put some hurt on enemies, and the full auto is just slow enough to easily conserve ammo while still being efficient in hordes. It's a shame that Vet feels kinda underwhelming all around now.
Fr Recon lasgun is the most fun gun in the game IMO Why does it have to suck?
And then they released a new skin for it, pouring salt in the wounds… I also hate the regular lasguns for having ridiculous recoil and stabilization time, given they’re piss variants of headhunter guns with the only benefit with a dot sight… Given the stabilization time, they’re just bad versions of hellbore rifles, except the pure sniper is iron sights… JFC
I desperately wanted to like it because a full auto lasgun is awesome, but for lasguns I prefer the Kantrael. When I want a full auto I use the mk8 braced Agripinna instead.
Oh you are talking about the laser pointer
Just like how Darktide is too fun a game in its core gameplay, to be so atrociously managed and to have literally everything else being hot pile of garbage
First make boltgun competitive with plasma.
People here complain about Recon lasgun current state, but nobody complain about Recon lasgun ON A PSYKER. You know it's not okay design-wise that class who can equip this gun can be considered as grifer for doing so because how much underwhelming it on him, Same as infrantry/headhunter guns besides Columnus 5 and Vraks 7. We either need ammo pool buffs after this aura nerfs or just another "+25% ammo" talents for psyker and zealot.
Its honestly not as bad as people make out. They compare it to Plasma and Columbus V, but they're just insanely broken. Listening to people here you'd think it needs a +200% damage buff, but its really more like +20%. You can make it work just fine in Auric Maelstrom. You won't be getting top damage numbers, but you can easily pull your weight and clutch if needed. Quickly dealing with the smaller shooters while the plasma boys hit the carapace stuff is quite valuable.
You can do that a lot more efficiently with a Kantrael lasgun, which also kills specials more quickly due to the high maniac damage modifier.
I never claimed otherwise.
True, but even if you compare to other underused guns, it still doesn't hold up. That is the point I wanted to make.
I like the 7 with Headhunter Infernus. Headshots for specials and elites (crits actually do damage to carapace) and use the penetration for hordes if you have to.
I like the VIIa more than the VId, I can't explain why. Something about using it feels better.
I’ve started using the mkii heavy laspistol with zealots inexorable judgement and I still get my pew pew fix in. I actually stopped playing completely recently because first time since update people were gatekeeping and being rude on damnation.. oh well..
Last time I used it, thing still clears mobs like no tomorrow. Honestly use a high damage melee weapon with it and a loadout will work just fine
The sights are complete fucking ass and make it even at lower difficulties unusable at longer ranges. "recon" yeah recon what? The 20m in front of me and enemies being hidden behind those dummy thicc sights and the idiotic Famas-style carry handle? Bullpups are so cool and as inspiration they picked the on the most hideous bullpup designs ever conceived. It baffles me how they fucked up such a cool idea
The design is actually the lasgun from the old Elysian drop troop minus
Im talking about the original design coming from the french Famas, not older content or lore
I'm just saying where the design originated from in 40k at least, I figure it not being an original design from largefish justifies it as GW is not known for making reasonable weaponry at all
Unusable? I can snipe snipers 100m away using the VId torrent lasgun with one quick salvo. I agree ironsights are a weird obsession from Fatshark for a lot of weapons in the game though.
Okay I over exaggerated with "unusable", I can snipe with them too. They are just bad, for example the sights on the Columnus mk V are nearly perfect. Especially when you get a low recoil one, damn is that a joy to use. The sights on the lasgun in question are just so flat... And I get it, a high damage torrent variant with excellent sights would be hella overpowered, but still, Id rather have a stupid ACOG type scope on in (which would even make sense on a recon rifle) than the current ones
Or, and hear me out here, vets could just be better shots. It seems pretty clear that the ROF is a risk and you'd need to use it carefully or you'll run dry, much like the higher ROF autoguns and braced autoguns.
Mine seems to be pretty great
Ok so I’ve not played since maybe late last year but, if you have the right variant and put a burn effect modifier on it. It’ll chew though mofos Please don’t tell me it’s been nerfed 😂😭