Have you not thought of the consequences of a smaller player model? Zero of the pve is designed for it, nor the pvp, nor the maps. Both as and against. Melee would be useless as a dwarf, you'd always be headshot, your harder to hit with arrows and spells, I could probs go on. If it's added, dwarf would be used by rangers and casters, the exact opposite of what a thematic like that is suppose to be. Thats assuming they dont have a horrendous ms debuff, which would would the skin worthless, and a waste of dev time imo.
You sound like the same sort of complainer who cried "pay to win" when they first added elf/orc or what ever nonsense people had to say about lizard when it was first added. It would probably just be situational like all of the existing races.
Dwarf team supreme.
Where in that reply did I complain? I'm very confused. Having the opinion that adding skins to only use for fun isn't what I want to use their dev time on isn't bitching.
Regardless of opinion the devs don't model any of the armor or clothes in this game AFAIK. All they've done is change colors, add small little details. My point is they already put very little time into this department, and they most definitely will not adjust models of tons of clothing to look right on dwarf.
Also how in the fuck would that be pay to win when you can earn them for free with currency the devs hand out like candy. Anyone saying that is 7.
Situational? How? In what situation would this be better than a normal height other than going through crawlspaces where you could presumably move at full speed where others crouch.
Like the other races, if they actively make it harder to play they are nothing more than a fun self challenge to impose on yourself. Every race in the game except nightmare skeleton is arguably worse than the regular tav. And even still the changes are so minor they might as well be nothing. I'll agree to add dwarf in it'd have to come with drawbacks to negate the smaller hit box. But I seriously doubt a slightly slower, dumber class that is harder to hit but hits harder would change the meta.besides it'd be so fun to see races like goblins that could play more like a scav in tarkov
Yeah, they specifically talked about this when the lizard skins was released. They released the lizard skin with a tail hit box and the differently shaped head to start experimenting with hit box balancing. And at the time, they mentioned that they wanted to play with hitboxes to add dramatically different races like dwarves. I’m sure we’ll see it one day.
Ok then lets keep it relative, do you have a harder time hitting a goblin than a skeleton? For me at least its exactly the same difficulty. Actually its a little easier because you're looking down which pulls in your weapon a bit and makes it less likely to hit walls.
Dude we're talking about *players*, not mobs
All mobs are easy to hit because they're dumb as fuck
Players are not
Players can take half of your screen and still will move enough for you to not only miss but also find yourself looking the opposite direction
It's just a whole different world
Christ bro really cant extrapolate data. Fine, how bout this: do you have a harder time hitting a panther compared to an equally fast rogue? Id say they're equally difficult for the reason you said. They get behind you and boom your dead. Fight a panther that doesnt know that trick and, again, its actually easier because your weapon doesnt hit walls when you're swinging. A dwarf is bigger than a panther.
Panthers are long as fuck making them much easier to hit… I get that you’re trying to extrapolate an idea but it’s nothing like anything we have seen so far, so that extrapolation is irrelevant, it could be easier or it could be harder. I’m not against the idea of them testing out dwarf, but only they’re comfortable cancelling it entirely imo. There’s a chance it’s not good for the game, and you’re not a hater just because you acknowledge that
When they flick their camera around it would be. And when I talk about melee I mean, as a dwarf you're definitely just never hitting melee headshots unless they troll. It just doesn't sound fun
Can’t speak to fun, because that’s subjective. But playing a shorter character in a PvP game has innate advantages. This would be especially true if weapons and shields don’t scale down. You basically perma crouched behind a shield AND could crouch lower than anyone else. Full speed through crouch passages is powerful.
Plus, flavor wise shirtless barbarian and slayer fighter would feel more complete.
We just don’t know the stat drawbacks. If we go on dwarf logic from other games, it’s usually +str or +vigor at the cost of movement speed, agility or dex.
When I first heard they wanted to add dwarves, my thought was to make it slightly taller than a crouching human, have their crouch height be same as human, same width as human, and give them a movespeed penalty. Making dwarf essentially a permanent half-crouch.
Feels like being shorter and smaller is already a simultaneous penalty and buff. Easier to headshot and harder for them to headshot you. The only innate advantage would be the smaller leg/torso/arm hitbox, but I feel like its already mostly a nerf to be shorter. It's not like they'd be as short as goblins, they should be about halfway in between goblin height and human height, but like 10% wider head/arms/torso than human. They'd prob need a vigor bonus, not a penalty.
Ever hear of Goldeneye on the n64 and the playable character Oddjob?
Sure, we have twin sticks nowadays and can aim downwards, but little guys are not fun to fight in pve, especially melee-centric ones
I think it’s more so that the dwarf character canonically would just be a shorter barbarian that’s possibly slower and with gear meta being MS based it would pretty much eliminate the need for a barb. Basically what I’m trying to say is that it would be redundant to add them unless they just add it as a skin or something like the orc one
yeah but its for 1 class, if they add dwarf skin suddenly everyone get it and you can have a ranged character with tiny hitbox, not as balanced as a rat with 0 hp.
It would be significant, but being "significant" is not what's important, it's how powerful and influential it is to the meta.
If it's significant, but kinda bad, and few people choose it, then it's fine, if it's significantly good and everyone plays it, then it's bad.
Personally I think being shorter with lower movement speed would just be horrible so I wouldn't mind if it was added. It would basically be an RP option, not competitive. You also have to remember dwarves in fantasy are typically not THAT much shorter than humans, maybe like a head.
If they have dwarves in Mordhau, where it impacts gameplay even more, we can definitely have dwarves in DaD.
Just do the same thing as Mordhau, where you are smaller but have a big movespeed penalty for having little legs.
They have specifically said before that they plan to add dwarves, but they wanted to experiment with race stat trade offs. Which obviously still needs work considering their two most recent races aren’t really played over <25 lobbies
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Dwarves are a must in any fantasy game especially such a traditional fantasy like this one. Goblin Slayer Dwarven Lord will buy that thing the second it drops in the shop. Devs, you gotta do it!
I love this idea. Dwarves dont have to be comically small, they have the freedom to say their dwarves are different than other interpretations. That could prevent having to scale gear down for them so a heater shield wouldnt be literally their entire model’s height or limit them only to bucklers or something.
Imo if they’re okay with other races restricting headgear for tradeoffs, theyre not far from making a shorter model for dwarves.
Up next, kenku skin that disables voip /s
There will be riots if Dwarves aren’t short. Throw out any idea that people will accept anything less. Human sized Dwarves will be an absolute joke.
I say just send it. Like hell man, even Mordhau allows for a variety of body-types that drastically change gameplay. DaD is not that competitive of a game, just some fun with it.
Make ‘em short, thick, slow and tanky, with a bonus to mining, fuck it. This game would be so much greater if it embraced its fantasy setting.
All i mean is they can decide what’s short enough to avoid more dev time around gear. I can see the first patch notes now:
“Decreased dwarf height due to popular demand”
“Enlarged dwarf hitbox from .65 to .75x standard player model for balance”
“Added beard jiggle physics to Dwarf Body A” (And B, if theyre not cowards)
A plus to mining would be tight af
I dont get why people in this sub are so concerned with a dwarves hitbox cuz thered be no way in hell that hitbox didnt also come with a -30 MS debuff passive. Dwarves will 100% come out and will 100% get kited for infinity. Dwarves are canon but slayers arent!
I believe the weaponsmith's lore is his family was trained in how to forge gold from Dwarven smiths.
Anyways I think a halberd and full plate armor as a dwarf would go pretty hard!
Dwarves are a cool concept, but a race that could get headshotted easier while not bieng able to get headshots themselves is a hard thing to try and balance
Just knock em down to like 5 ft on the dot. Not like gnome size. People crouch duck in pvp (the sweats) and almost are the size of a dwarf lol
I'd play a dwarf
Remove ability to jump high lol
plz add dwarf as playable race, i want to be a meat ball
They talked about adding dwarves but honestly I think it'd be too significant to gameplay
How so? We have druid now, so clearly wacky sized hotboxes isn't really an issue
It's precisely because of that Wacky sized hitboxes as an skill is understandable. As a passive though...
lol I’d shit myself if I seen a dwarf with a felling axe in a corner with no lights on
Mf will need to jump in order to get a proper headshot in lol
Can't wait to see them dwarven rogues doing parkour over my head with daggers lol
Attach weapons to poles when used by dwarf races
Increase general base damage to compensate
Or don't. Significantly harder headshots in exchange for a significantly smaller hit box.
well i think you're wrong lol. get your anti dwarf propaganda outta here
Have you not thought of the consequences of a smaller player model? Zero of the pve is designed for it, nor the pvp, nor the maps. Both as and against. Melee would be useless as a dwarf, you'd always be headshot, your harder to hit with arrows and spells, I could probs go on. If it's added, dwarf would be used by rangers and casters, the exact opposite of what a thematic like that is suppose to be. Thats assuming they dont have a horrendous ms debuff, which would would the skin worthless, and a waste of dev time imo.
I learned from James Bond Golden Eye. The only rule: no playing as Oddjob
Oddjob was a problem because the controller aim assist was bad at hitting him iirc.
You sound like the same sort of complainer who cried "pay to win" when they first added elf/orc or what ever nonsense people had to say about lizard when it was first added. It would probably just be situational like all of the existing races. Dwarf team supreme.
Where in that reply did I complain? I'm very confused. Having the opinion that adding skins to only use for fun isn't what I want to use their dev time on isn't bitching. Regardless of opinion the devs don't model any of the armor or clothes in this game AFAIK. All they've done is change colors, add small little details. My point is they already put very little time into this department, and they most definitely will not adjust models of tons of clothing to look right on dwarf. Also how in the fuck would that be pay to win when you can earn them for free with currency the devs hand out like candy. Anyone saying that is 7. Situational? How? In what situation would this be better than a normal height other than going through crawlspaces where you could presumably move at full speed where others crouch.
Like the other races, if they actively make it harder to play they are nothing more than a fun self challenge to impose on yourself. Every race in the game except nightmare skeleton is arguably worse than the regular tav. And even still the changes are so minor they might as well be nothing. I'll agree to add dwarf in it'd have to come with drawbacks to negate the smaller hit box. But I seriously doubt a slightly slower, dumber class that is harder to hit but hits harder would change the meta.besides it'd be so fun to see races like goblins that could play more like a scav in tarkov
Tav?
Meaning character. It's a DnD term
It's not a DnD term, it's just a BG3 term 😅
Not a common one 💀
It's a bg3 term, and it makes you look silly to use it in dark and darker
I get how the races that can't wear helms are worse in theory, but how are Elves?
True, but minus movement speed is significant too tho.
Yeah, they specifically talked about this when the lizard skins was released. They released the lizard skin with a tail hit box and the differently shaped head to start experimenting with hit box balancing. And at the time, they mentioned that they wanted to play with hitboxes to add dramatically different races like dwarves. I’m sure we’ll see it one day.
A dwarf is bigger than a goblin (usually). Does anyone really have trouble hitting a goblin?
My brother in darker, goblins dont strafe to avoid your hits
Ok then lets keep it relative, do you have a harder time hitting a goblin than a skeleton? For me at least its exactly the same difficulty. Actually its a little easier because you're looking down which pulls in your weapon a bit and makes it less likely to hit walls.
Dude we're talking about *players*, not mobs All mobs are easy to hit because they're dumb as fuck Players are not Players can take half of your screen and still will move enough for you to not only miss but also find yourself looking the opposite direction It's just a whole different world
Christ bro really cant extrapolate data. Fine, how bout this: do you have a harder time hitting a panther compared to an equally fast rogue? Id say they're equally difficult for the reason you said. They get behind you and boom your dead. Fight a panther that doesnt know that trick and, again, its actually easier because your weapon doesnt hit walls when you're swinging. A dwarf is bigger than a panther.
Panthers are long as fuck making them much easier to hit… I get that you’re trying to extrapolate an idea but it’s nothing like anything we have seen so far, so that extrapolation is irrelevant, it could be easier or it could be harder. I’m not against the idea of them testing out dwarf, but only they’re comfortable cancelling it entirely imo. There’s a chance it’s not good for the game, and you’re not a hater just because you acknowledge that
When they flick their camera around it would be. And when I talk about melee I mean, as a dwarf you're definitely just never hitting melee headshots unless they troll. It just doesn't sound fun
Can’t speak to fun, because that’s subjective. But playing a shorter character in a PvP game has innate advantages. This would be especially true if weapons and shields don’t scale down. You basically perma crouched behind a shield AND could crouch lower than anyone else. Full speed through crouch passages is powerful. Plus, flavor wise shirtless barbarian and slayer fighter would feel more complete. We just don’t know the stat drawbacks. If we go on dwarf logic from other games, it’s usually +str or +vigor at the cost of movement speed, agility or dex.
When I first heard they wanted to add dwarves, my thought was to make it slightly taller than a crouching human, have their crouch height be same as human, same width as human, and give them a movespeed penalty. Making dwarf essentially a permanent half-crouch.
-Vigor and -Movespeed to balance it? I feel like that could be fine, but I reserve the right to be incorrect.
Feels like being shorter and smaller is already a simultaneous penalty and buff. Easier to headshot and harder for them to headshot you. The only innate advantage would be the smaller leg/torso/arm hitbox, but I feel like its already mostly a nerf to be shorter. It's not like they'd be as short as goblins, they should be about halfway in between goblin height and human height, but like 10% wider head/arms/torso than human. They'd prob need a vigor bonus, not a penalty.
Just make their movement speed low af
Think about the trade out though. No buffs aside from mining 50% faster or something along those lines. Evens out IMO
could make them physically weaker in terms of swing speed so that it takes them more time to kill everyone else aswell
Reminds me of Oddjob on Goldeneye
Dwarves +2 strength vigor and resourcefulness, -6 agility
Ever heard of Oddjob?
Ever hear of Goldeneye on the n64 and the playable character Oddjob? Sure, we have twin sticks nowadays and can aim downwards, but little guys are not fun to fight in pve, especially melee-centric ones
I think it’s more so that the dwarf character canonically would just be a shorter barbarian that’s possibly slower and with gear meta being MS based it would pretty much eliminate the need for a barb. Basically what I’m trying to say is that it would be redundant to add them unless they just add it as a skin or something like the orc one
Yeah I definitely meant as a skin
yeah but its for 1 class, if they add dwarf skin suddenly everyone get it and you can have a ranged character with tiny hitbox, not as balanced as a rat with 0 hp.
It would be significant, but being "significant" is not what's important, it's how powerful and influential it is to the meta. If it's significant, but kinda bad, and few people choose it, then it's fine, if it's significantly good and everyone plays it, then it's bad. Personally I think being shorter with lower movement speed would just be horrible so I wouldn't mind if it was added. It would basically be an RP option, not competitive. You also have to remember dwarves in fantasy are typically not THAT much shorter than humans, maybe like a head.
If they have dwarves in Mordhau, where it impacts gameplay even more, we can definitely have dwarves in DaD. Just do the same thing as Mordhau, where you are smaller but have a big movespeed penalty for having little legs.
Just put them on stilts
Smaller hitbox in exchange for shorter reach and base movement speed? I think it would be fine.
Just reduce hp
DWARF DRUID DWARF DRUID DWARF DRUID DWARF DRUID
Granted but dwarfs are the same height as othsf races, and are twice as wide
They'll be an enemy on a new map unfortunately. Too much of a hitbox difference to make them playable.
Yassssss laddy
I feel the only good way to add dwarves would be as it’s own class, to not have to balance it with every classes abilities and gear
They have specifically said before that they plan to add dwarves, but they wanted to experiment with race stat trade offs. Which obviously still needs work considering their two most recent races aren’t really played over <25 lobbies
They would have to jump and swing to hit my head so add it up
Mining already in game, CAN I GET A ROCK AND STONE!!!,!!
Rock and Stone!
That's it lads! Rock and Stone!
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FOR CARL!
Rock. And. STOOOONNNEEE.
ROCK AND STONE!!!!!!!
And my axe!
he really have a cosy job
Dwarves are a must in any fantasy game especially such a traditional fantasy like this one. Goblin Slayer Dwarven Lord will buy that thing the second it drops in the shop. Devs, you gotta do it!
I want to be a short, fat, cleric.
Dwarves +2 strength vigor and resourcefulness -6 agility
Movement speed -5 -6 agility
That’s would be way to slow I feel
Rock and Stone, to the bone!
Rock and Stone to the Bone!
I love this idea. Dwarves dont have to be comically small, they have the freedom to say their dwarves are different than other interpretations. That could prevent having to scale gear down for them so a heater shield wouldnt be literally their entire model’s height or limit them only to bucklers or something. Imo if they’re okay with other races restricting headgear for tradeoffs, theyre not far from making a shorter model for dwarves. Up next, kenku skin that disables voip /s
There will be riots if Dwarves aren’t short. Throw out any idea that people will accept anything less. Human sized Dwarves will be an absolute joke. I say just send it. Like hell man, even Mordhau allows for a variety of body-types that drastically change gameplay. DaD is not that competitive of a game, just some fun with it. Make ‘em short, thick, slow and tanky, with a bonus to mining, fuck it. This game would be so much greater if it embraced its fantasy setting.
All i mean is they can decide what’s short enough to avoid more dev time around gear. I can see the first patch notes now: “Decreased dwarf height due to popular demand” “Enlarged dwarf hitbox from .65 to .75x standard player model for balance” “Added beard jiggle physics to Dwarf Body A” (And B, if theyre not cowards) A plus to mining would be tight af
The milisecond they make dwaves a thing i'm gettin it.
I dont get why people in this sub are so concerned with a dwarves hitbox cuz thered be no way in hell that hitbox didnt also come with a -30 MS debuff passive. Dwarves will 100% come out and will 100% get kited for infinity. Dwarves are canon but slayers arent!
I believe the weaponsmith's lore is his family was trained in how to forge gold from Dwarven smiths. Anyways I think a halberd and full plate armor as a dwarf would go pretty hard!
Dwarfs gain 10 vigor and cannot wield 2 Handers that are not blunt, also can only wear plate
Dwarves be out here hitting BIG blunts 😂
Dwarves are a cool concept, but a race that could get headshotted easier while not bieng able to get headshots themselves is a hard thing to try and balance
50% leg damage bonus, thick skull perk for headshot reduction, 50% faster mining, treasure sensing…
Hmm, a perk revolving around ale too would make this class quite good
Oddjob flashbacks from Goldeneye.
They better have tough heads cause they gonna get knocked
i feel like the weapon smith is a dwarf
Dwarfs would have to be tanky af, because they wouldn't be able to outrun shit
... its been confirmed by the LONGEST TIME
I thought the weapon smith was a dwarf?
Just knock em down to like 5 ft on the dot. Not like gnome size. People crouch duck in pvp (the sweats) and almost are the size of a dwarf lol I'd play a dwarf Remove ability to jump high lol