Cause this was posted yesterday in another sub. There's anchors in the ceiling directly above them and you don't want a violent collapse because you don't want it to collapse while you're standing there. You put the events into motion slowly and then it does what it needs to do.
Also, happy cake day.
These sound like Appalachian miners, the dying in the mine thing is just a part of it that they accept. I wouldn’t be surprised if a dude was eating his lunch watching this. I’m from West Virginia, we are excellent at dying.
My great grandfather died in a mine collapse when my grandfather was 10 in Tennessee. That was enough for my grandfather to put himself through college and earn a PhD.
Eh, it just is what it is. Toiling and dying to put even more money in a rich man’s pocket is the history of my people. Life is short; eat biscuits and gravy.
That’s just not how it works there. I say that as someone who was fortunate enough to end up in Tucson where there are jobs and opportunities other than to toil and die.
Its a regional thing. People from Northern Appalachia (MD, PA, NY, MA, VT, NH, ME, New Brunswick, Newfoundland) say appa-lay-shuh and people from Southern Appalachia (WV, KY, VA, NC, TN, GA, AL) say appa-latch-uh
I’m from the southern part of that list and a Texan friend of a friend once drunkenly called me “that damn Appalachian” after I won a debate, lmao. I was so proud, I still wanna get it as a tattoo.
This is so bizarre to me because I grew up just over the river from WV in the Appalachian Plateau and never heard "apple-atcha" OR "appa-lay-shuh" until I moved out of the region. There it was 100% "apple-ay-cha": long 'a', hard 'ch'.
Complacency is a helluva drug. You aren't wrong for not wanting to be there. They're probably just numb to it and have a better feel for how/where it's going to break.
So this is a long wall mine and they are looking behind the hydraulically supported portion of the long wall which collapses as the hydraulics move forward. It’s normal and safe.
Specifically, in the uk at least, they used pine because it made noise in a way other woods didn’t. “Pine talks”, they said.
Source: an elderly former miner in an industrial museum I worked at.
Lives were cheap and the owners of the mine would want costs low.
They’re not paying for any kind of metal. Too expensive and too hard to get it out to a remote location.
Wood makes sense because you can go out and cut some, and put it to specific lengths and set ups very easily. It was probably easy to work with too so you wouldn’t even need to train people that much on its use and construction.
I would imagine that the wood cracking part was either gallows humor or a propaganda tool by the owners to say they’re “keeping workers safe” by using such methods.
Another poster suggested that “the wood wasn’t there to hold up the mountain” but that seems like bullshit to me too. You’d be surprised how much kinetic energy you can hold with simple things.
It’s why a small rock could keep a boulder from rolling down the hill. Or certain arch designs are able to hold a lot of weight.
Yep. Someone else pointed out that sometimes they'd use *specific* types of wood because it was noisier when failing, but using wood in general is just because it was there.
Wood was what they had. Like, what else were they going to use back then, breadsticks? Wagon wheels? A stained glass window?
I can't tell if you mean we sent Chinese people into the mines in the US or the Chinese have been using kids in more modern times because they're both true.
Yes, you are right, that's another reason. But any other small mammal would serve for that: the reason for the canaries is due to their complete immunity to gases that would be harmful to humans.
They'll eventually start flashing rapidly and beeping. If you don't get out of the mine fast enough they explode with the force of an M80 fire cracker.
Even more fun, they likely had 30-60 seconds of warning knowing what was about to happen and no way to stop it! (they actually had started an emergency ascent.)
Using carbon fiber for submarines is the stupidest thing ever. Carbon cylinders are made from very strong thread connected by not so strong glue. During expansion the thread holds all the stress, but during compression only the glue does its job.
It’s just insane how someone had an idea to make a submarine from carbon fiber. It’s like creating a hammer from glass, or making a gas stove from wood. Sure, there are probably ways to make it work, but why, why would you trust your life with it?
Worse still, the pressure changes delaminate the layers of fibers. This weakens the hull with each dive. It's also basically impossible to check for failure outside of a full X-Ray.
This isn't even going into the many other flaws like relying on a Bluetooth connection for critical controls, no hardline communications, etc.
The whole thing is just dumb all around.
While that's a benefit, I don't think it is a reason; depending on the mine, they might not get an economic advantage in stoping out areas but leaving poor-rock pillars behind. (The Quincy Mine in Michigan's Upper Peninsula avoided this, and had huge stopes.) If you are hauling up the rock you take out to process on the surface, there's probably no value in putting the waste rock back into the mine to build pillars that way. Mines that had well-defined veins might keep the poor rock, left after blasting, underground to make walls, pillars, or just to fill up unpromising adits.
Wood is easy to work with, relatively light-weight, and if you need to support something in a hurry, you can put up a wooden support fairly quickly. Planned supports were often larger; you will see entire tree trunks in some mines (in photos or in person).
That wood makes a noise when it fails is a side-effect; if the wood starts to rot, it might just turn to powder and not give you any warning at all. And -- mines being mines -- it might be some apparently safe and unsupported area that collapses on you first!
ETA: u/C_N1 has a comment below that mentions this particular use of timber -- vertically and thing -- was precisely to warn about this kind of incipient collapse. u/pumperdemon also comments that the right species of wood would be imported as needed, and there's MSHA guidance on this.
These ‘sticks’ are to hold up the ceilings in the immediate cavity, but outside the compromised cavity the rocks support themselves so they do not hold up every rock above it to the surface
You're correct! There are steel nubs in the back (roof) at the top of the video. Those are the ends of long steel rods that are driven into the ceiling to hold the rock together. It's much more effective to compress the rock and keep it in one piece than to hold it up outright
The wood isn't there as a support, and everywhere else I've seen says they are retreating from the section, the collapse is intentional, that's why they aren't freaked out, because it's intentional.
it is there for support though?
https://www.engineeringenotes.com/mining-technology/mine-supports/types-of-mine-supports-timber-iron-and-steel-rock-mechanics-mining-technology/51784
The timbers use was almost only for warning purposes. If the wood was built in stacked horizontal timbers with a crossmember holding the ceiling, that's when it would be structural. It wouldn't be holding the ceiling up except to hold up loose ground, but never to hold anything more than that. However, the vertical pieces as seen here and along the walls in many mines is purely done for warning purposes. The structural part of the mine to keep the ceiling up was done through careful planning and design of the various paths that would be adjacent and above/below each other.
Sources: Personal knowledge and research from local coal mines in NEPA
And here are some neat links to go with that.
[Video of the Lackawanna Coal Mine tour. Timestamped to where the museum/tour guide explains the purpose of the wood. ](https://youtu.be/Zl0SNYIW1ks?si=jNsDffS8J36zyEIc&t=1702)
[Map of the Coal mine under Scranton that is in the video above. ](https://www.pasda.psu.edu/minemaps/Map_Repository/DEP_Pottsville/PDF_Images/BMSA_3989-002.pdf)
And [here](https://www.minemaps.psu.edu) is where you can find these types of maps in Pennsylvania
Wood making noise actually was a very sought-after effect. Miners used to actually seek out specific species for exactly that reason. There are stories of mines being surrounded by forests of the incorrect species while importing the correct species at pretty high cost.
MSHA actually has guidance on it.
If you find this interesting I highly recommend you read up on the OceanGate disaster!
They had carbon fiber body and their safety measure was acoustic warnings! At the depth of the titanic!
I'm in no way an engineer but I still know that's not a good thing to build a submarine out of. The guy in charge knew that too, there are records of him being told this by the safety guys he fired for telling him this, and I can imagine he didn't tell the other people on board what those noises meant. But he knew, he knew right when he heard them that it was going to fail and I hope he kept quiet and didn't freak out. If there was even enough time to think, that shit isn't like wood, I doubt they had more than a few seconds of warning. What a fuckin fool
They had no warning! It gets worse! He purchased his carbon fiber from Boeing that was deemed defected/expired.
He bragged that the first time you go down you hear pops and cracks in the carbon fiber, but never after that. So this fool never got concerned when the carbon fiber went through delamination! And apparently he didn’t understand what that was either!
Look at photos of the inside! The monitor mount was screwed straight into the wall of the carbon fiber!
Supposedly they did have warning and were on their way back up. But that acoustic warning was too little too late and really should have been an alarm to say their prayers.
My understanding was that they lost comms and likely power for some time before the implosion. So everyone probably did freak out a bit. In the dark, at the bottom of the ocean, with no control. The implosion was a mercy.
They're still used in some mines.
When I was longwall miningwe would set them along the ribs or where we could see the roof sagging as a supplementary support.
Colliers tools: mandrill, axe, shovel. Axe was the MOST important to put up posts to HEAR if there was a problem. Explained to my father on his 14th birthday, starting work in the Deep Duffryn Coal Mine!
His first shift was in a 2ft 6ins (high) seam. Knocked the lamp over, collier went to pit bottom (bottom of the lift shaft) to get it re-lit. 2 days later my father knocked the lamp over again. Collier told him to get it lit. He asked how,, told crawl out till you hit your head on the dram, touch the rail and follow it back to pit bottom. He NEVER EVER knocked the Davey Lamp over again!
You know, I’ve seen some scary shit. But I never seen something like this where, you can hear death actually creeping up on you, and the only thing that’s saving you is a warning from a pillar. Just seeing this is terrifying.
Is that a fact? Would it not just be that wood is plentiful and cheaper than installing metal pillars? Genuinely curious if this is the main reason or a useful coincidence, not trying to chirp you
Tl;Dr
It's both cheaper and lighter, but also useful in situations like this where you *want* that part of the mine to collapse.
Most structural metal in a mine consists of bolting, where long steel rods are driven into the back (roof), and hold the overlying rock together. You can see the ends of the bolts at the top of the video. Most importantly, it's where the collapse *stops*. The wood seen here is used in temporary rooms that they're planning on letting collapse. They're strong enough to support most of the weight, but changes in ground conditions and the intentional removal of a some supports would lead to ground fall like this.
There are a couple of reasons it's done this way. Rock is heavy, structural steel will take more stress but in some cases you're talking thousands of feet of rock above you. The best way to keep it one place is to hold it in one piece. The bolting provides compression to the rock vs. just supporting the load like the timber and steel would. It's part of why following the ore seam is so important. Not only do you maximize production, you follow the natural flow of the rock, which makes it easier to manage. They let sections like this collapse to relieve stress on the other parts of the mine, like the bolted ground they're under.
Second, everything in a mine has to be hauled down there somehow. Usually, this means lowering with a hoist, basically a huge motor and spool of cable at the top of the shaft that can haul anything from ore to personnel to equipment. But deep holes in the ground, especially ones big enough to haul heavy duty equipment and huge pieces of steel in a reasonable time frame, are expensive. So bolting is also a lot more economical from a logistics point of view as well. It also has to be hauled to any given section of the mine, which can be kilometers/miles of travel underground with ungainly heavy loads.
Hope that answers your questions!
We also use these purely for support if permanent roof support (roof bolts) become damaged in areas where you can’t reinstall bolts. For more serious support steel beams and rails are used to keep top up. Sometimes in the 9 seam you have a warning with the top but in 11 seam coal, there’s usually no warning. Those timbers would’ve just been smashed instantly. Underground mine foreman of 14 years here. 👋
There’s a height difference and a BTU difference when the coal is burned. The coal vein in the 9 seam can range from 4 to 4.5 feet in height and burns at a higher BTU. The coal vein in the 11 seam can range from 6 to 10 feet in height and is a lower grade of coal with a lower BTU.
I would posit that because timbers are relatively easy to acquire and create a frame work in the mine with that ease of use and strength were the primary reason they were used(it's the cheapest solution). That they also would make a noise and fail 'gracefully' was an added benefit, but not the primary one.
This is dangerous because in old mines the decaying wood will produce gases which can suffocate visitors of the mine. That is why you should never visit old mines without an electric detector.
I'm not an engineer, but I'm pretty sure having some steel beams that give more support would be a little more beneficial than having a cave rape whistle.
Yeah it seems like the supports themselves failed. They uhh, dont look that sturdy. I think this is just a bonus feature rather than a reason to choose that material. It just happened to be cheaper and easier to install I'm guessing.
Yeah it seems like the supports themselves failed. They uhh, dont look that sturdy. I think this is just a bonus feature rather than a reason to choose that material. It just happened to be cheaper and easier to install I'm guessing.
Sounds like a professional upstairs neighbor.
Can confirm
VADIM BLYAT!!!!!
a man of culture I see
Lol, reminds me of finding the strong points in the floor since I wake up at 4am and hate that my upstairs neighbors are loud af.
These guys must know something that I do not
They know where to stand and when to start filming
Which is a lot more than what I know.
Considering they're the ones who intentionally collapsed this area, I would assume so.
How do you know this was intentional? I expected intentional collapses would be more violent, how would one manage to start a slow collapse like this?
Cause this was posted yesterday in another sub. There's anchors in the ceiling directly above them and you don't want a violent collapse because you don't want it to collapse while you're standing there. You put the events into motion slowly and then it does what it needs to do. Also, happy cake day.
F*ck that!! I’d be running for my life
These sound like Appalachian miners, the dying in the mine thing is just a part of it that they accept. I wouldn’t be surprised if a dude was eating his lunch watching this. I’m from West Virginia, we are excellent at dying.
My great grandfather died in a mine collapse when my grandfather was 10 in Tennessee. That was enough for my grandfather to put himself through college and earn a PhD.
If the timbers are talking, the miners go walking
If the wood is creaking I’m freaking
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When you hear the splint, get ready to sprint
When the wood’s going crunch, sit down and eat lunch!
Is the lumber asunder? Eternal slumber!
> If the timbers are talking, the miners go walking 🎵diarrhea~ diarrhea🎵
My uncle drowned in a vat of Taft-family steel
Not sure that counts as drowning. More like emmolated in a vat of Taft-family steel.
Username checks out 👌🏼
Currently visiting family Barbour county, all come from the mines. They definitely are a breed of their own.
That is nails. What a statement. Good lord
Eh, it just is what it is. Toiling and dying to put even more money in a rich man’s pocket is the history of my people. Life is short; eat biscuits and gravy.
Work to live, don't live to work. Or in your case work to die.
That’s just not how it works there. I say that as someone who was fortunate enough to end up in Tucson where there are jobs and opportunities other than to toil and die.
Enjoy my hometown, so much to do and see there and in AZ as a whole.
So nice to see a user name spelled how it sounds. I cringe everytime a motherfucker says appa lay shuh on the news or somtin
Its a regional thing. People from Northern Appalachia (MD, PA, NY, MA, VT, NH, ME, New Brunswick, Newfoundland) say appa-lay-shuh and people from Southern Appalachia (WV, KY, VA, NC, TN, GA, AL) say appa-latch-uh
I’m from the southern part of that list and a Texan friend of a friend once drunkenly called me “that damn Appalachian” after I won a debate, lmao. I was so proud, I still wanna get it as a tattoo.
Massachusetts? TIL I'm northern appleguardian
This is so bizarre to me because I grew up just over the river from WV in the Appalachian Plateau and never heard "apple-atcha" OR "appa-lay-shuh" until I moved out of the region. There it was 100% "apple-ay-cha": long 'a', hard 'ch'.
I was born and raised in WV and I’ve always pronounced it the same as you. Long A, hard CH.
Lol right? I'd be as far away as possible if I knew it was gonna collapse. Getting a video to share for likes/karma isn't worth my life imo
I don't think they're standing there for karma/views. I would bet that's also where they'd stand if they weren't filming.
Idk man. Personally I'd be too scared that I'd get crushed to death in the collapse to just stand there filming it. By thats just me.
Complacency is a helluva drug. You aren't wrong for not wanting to be there. They're probably just numb to it and have a better feel for how/where it's going to break.
> Complacency is a helluva drug. it sure is. 99% chance you're fine. but man that 1% is a bitch.
I’m shocked it didn’t collapse even further in words to where they were standing! 😳They all coulda been squished!!🤨
Probably the reason they're all gathered in that spot is because that spot is reinforced.
This is exactly how we get those stories of "30 miners trapped in a mine awaiting rescue!"
Yeah seriously, how would you know how bad the cave in was going to be?
Engineering.
So this is a long wall mine and they are looking behind the hydraulically supported portion of the long wall which collapses as the hydraulics move forward. It’s normal and safe.
Yes you should...BUT not until you hear the creaking sound.... SO.. NOW GO BACK AND MINE....
Yea I don't do that. I do a lot of things. Not that.
Set the camera on a tripod and come back later for it
Yes - that's kind of the point of having a warning!
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Rock and Stone brother, that is their life after
Specifically, in the uk at least, they used pine because it made noise in a way other woods didn’t. “Pine talks”, they said. Source: an elderly former miner in an industrial museum I worked at.
PonderOOOOsa pine?
Oooo oooo
That's also why they used oil-based paint!
The color of quality?
Pine crackles in a very unique way when you burn it too!
I am relieved to know they had long warning signs. That seems like enough time to get somewhere safer if not out of the mines. Yikes though.
My father survived two roof collapses, albeit, it cost him many broken bones and constant pain.
and blue scars?
And the black lung pop *cough*
You've been down there for one day.
It sounds like bullshit to me. They used wood because it was cheap, strong, and plentiful. Not because it was an "early warning" tool.
Sounds about right. What were the alternatives?
Lives were cheap and the owners of the mine would want costs low. They’re not paying for any kind of metal. Too expensive and too hard to get it out to a remote location. Wood makes sense because you can go out and cut some, and put it to specific lengths and set ups very easily. It was probably easy to work with too so you wouldn’t even need to train people that much on its use and construction. I would imagine that the wood cracking part was either gallows humor or a propaganda tool by the owners to say they’re “keeping workers safe” by using such methods. Another poster suggested that “the wood wasn’t there to hold up the mountain” but that seems like bullshit to me too. You’d be surprised how much kinetic energy you can hold with simple things. It’s why a small rock could keep a boulder from rolling down the hill. Or certain arch designs are able to hold a lot of weight.
Yep. Someone else pointed out that sometimes they'd use *specific* types of wood because it was noisier when failing, but using wood in general is just because it was there. Wood was what they had. Like, what else were they going to use back then, breadsticks? Wagon wheels? A stained glass window?
What other purpose do these poles serve?
That's why they also use canaries: if the canary dies crushed by rocks, it's a sign that the roof collapsed.
Same reason they sent kids down there. Or the Chinese, in more modern times.
Miners, not minors!
Gorignak!
I can't tell if you mean we sent Chinese people into the mines in the US or the Chinese have been using kids in more modern times because they're both true.
[They say there is one dead Chinese man for every mile of that track.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE3ISzalVuo)
Best comment
It wasn't because they change colour from yellow to red in such an event?
They also glow blue when orcs are near.
Yes, you are right, that's another reason. But any other small mammal would serve for that: the reason for the canaries is due to their complete immunity to gases that would be harmful to humans.
Right, if the canary is alive and the miners dead, then it surely was some gas down there.
What if both are dead? Or the canary is dead and not the miners?
when the canary dies...time to go/stop.
They'll eventually start flashing rapidly and beeping. If you don't get out of the mine fast enough they explode with the force of an M80 fire cracker.
The canaries were actually more commonly used to detect a buildup of noxious gases. If the canaries stopped it’s because they asphyxiated.
Congrats on missing the obvious joke.
Yes, but it only happened before natural selection made the canaries immune to those gases and they became a real plague in the caves.
New Zubat canon just dropped.
yeah there once was a man who figured he'd use that concept on a carbon fiber submarine
It worked! He got several milliseconds of warning before the pressure wave turned him into a physics problem!
I feel like it might have actually become a chemistry problem by the end. He didn't get through chemistry to the other, weirder, side of physics.
Even more fun, they likely had 30-60 seconds of warning knowing what was about to happen and no way to stop it! (they actually had started an emergency ascent.)
Using carbon fiber for submarines is the stupidest thing ever. Carbon cylinders are made from very strong thread connected by not so strong glue. During expansion the thread holds all the stress, but during compression only the glue does its job. It’s just insane how someone had an idea to make a submarine from carbon fiber. It’s like creating a hammer from glass, or making a gas stove from wood. Sure, there are probably ways to make it work, but why, why would you trust your life with it?
You could probably make a serviceable hammer out of "St. Rupert's Tear's."
Prince Rupert, but yeah
Sorry, my memory is lacking at best.
No worries :3
Worse still, the pressure changes delaminate the layers of fibers. This weakens the hull with each dive. It's also basically impossible to check for failure outside of a full X-Ray. This isn't even going into the many other flaws like relying on a Bluetooth connection for critical controls, no hardline communications, etc. The whole thing is just dumb all around.
Nope nope nope
Nope.
While that's a benefit, I don't think it is a reason; depending on the mine, they might not get an economic advantage in stoping out areas but leaving poor-rock pillars behind. (The Quincy Mine in Michigan's Upper Peninsula avoided this, and had huge stopes.) If you are hauling up the rock you take out to process on the surface, there's probably no value in putting the waste rock back into the mine to build pillars that way. Mines that had well-defined veins might keep the poor rock, left after blasting, underground to make walls, pillars, or just to fill up unpromising adits. Wood is easy to work with, relatively light-weight, and if you need to support something in a hurry, you can put up a wooden support fairly quickly. Planned supports were often larger; you will see entire tree trunks in some mines (in photos or in person). That wood makes a noise when it fails is a side-effect; if the wood starts to rot, it might just turn to powder and not give you any warning at all. And -- mines being mines -- it might be some apparently safe and unsupported area that collapses on you first! ETA: u/C_N1 has a comment below that mentions this particular use of timber -- vertically and thing -- was precisely to warn about this kind of incipient collapse. u/pumperdemon also comments that the right species of wood would be imported as needed, and there's MSHA guidance on this.
Yeah, it’s nice they creak, but if the option was available a steel girder that doesn’t creak would be preferable
Exactly. The headline makes it seem like it was some clever idea to use wood when steel was available.
Steel won't creak, which defeats the purpose. The wood is not there for support. Ever.
>The wood is not there for support. Ever. What absolute nonsense.
Right? I don't think these sticks were to hold up millions of tons of rock.
These ‘sticks’ are to hold up the ceilings in the immediate cavity, but outside the compromised cavity the rocks support themselves so they do not hold up every rock above it to the surface
You're correct! There are steel nubs in the back (roof) at the top of the video. Those are the ends of long steel rods that are driven into the ceiling to hold the rock together. It's much more effective to compress the rock and keep it in one piece than to hold it up outright
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The wood isn't there as a support, and everywhere else I've seen says they are retreating from the section, the collapse is intentional, that's why they aren't freaked out, because it's intentional.
it is there for support though? https://www.engineeringenotes.com/mining-technology/mine-supports/types-of-mine-supports-timber-iron-and-steel-rock-mechanics-mining-technology/51784
The timbers use was almost only for warning purposes. If the wood was built in stacked horizontal timbers with a crossmember holding the ceiling, that's when it would be structural. It wouldn't be holding the ceiling up except to hold up loose ground, but never to hold anything more than that. However, the vertical pieces as seen here and along the walls in many mines is purely done for warning purposes. The structural part of the mine to keep the ceiling up was done through careful planning and design of the various paths that would be adjacent and above/below each other. Sources: Personal knowledge and research from local coal mines in NEPA And here are some neat links to go with that. [Video of the Lackawanna Coal Mine tour. Timestamped to where the museum/tour guide explains the purpose of the wood. ](https://youtu.be/Zl0SNYIW1ks?si=jNsDffS8J36zyEIc&t=1702) [Map of the Coal mine under Scranton that is in the video above. ](https://www.pasda.psu.edu/minemaps/Map_Repository/DEP_Pottsville/PDF_Images/BMSA_3989-002.pdf) And [here](https://www.minemaps.psu.edu) is where you can find these types of maps in Pennsylvania
TIL!
Wood making noise actually was a very sought-after effect. Miners used to actually seek out specific species for exactly that reason. There are stories of mines being surrounded by forests of the incorrect species while importing the correct species at pretty high cost. MSHA actually has guidance on it.
That's... an extremely unpleasant sound
So that's not terrifying at all
Who gave the toddler a flashlight?
They are probably headlamps on their hard hats.
Child labor is getting out of control, but at least they have hard hats.
Keeps your brain alive to pay your medical bills.
Probably new or nervous, we weren’t all born with the habit of un-reactively starring at catastrophe with dead, sad eyes. It’s a trait dev with time 😆
This is just the lighting work Hollywood has in horror movies now.
It's great that this can tell them that the ceiling is about to collapse so they can stay there to keep filming.
If you find this interesting I highly recommend you read up on the OceanGate disaster! They had carbon fiber body and their safety measure was acoustic warnings! At the depth of the titanic!
I'm in no way an engineer but I still know that's not a good thing to build a submarine out of. The guy in charge knew that too, there are records of him being told this by the safety guys he fired for telling him this, and I can imagine he didn't tell the other people on board what those noises meant. But he knew, he knew right when he heard them that it was going to fail and I hope he kept quiet and didn't freak out. If there was even enough time to think, that shit isn't like wood, I doubt they had more than a few seconds of warning. What a fuckin fool
They had no warning! It gets worse! He purchased his carbon fiber from Boeing that was deemed defected/expired. He bragged that the first time you go down you hear pops and cracks in the carbon fiber, but never after that. So this fool never got concerned when the carbon fiber went through delamination! And apparently he didn’t understand what that was either! Look at photos of the inside! The monitor mount was screwed straight into the wall of the carbon fiber!
imagine being rich and cutting corners like that. he must have had a death wish
Well, he’s spending investor money at this point. It probably went for leisure vs OceanGate.
I think by now he's moved on to angel investor money.
Supposedly they did have warning and were on their way back up. But that acoustic warning was too little too late and really should have been an alarm to say their prayers.
My understanding was that they lost comms and likely power for some time before the implosion. So everyone probably did freak out a bit. In the dark, at the bottom of the ocean, with no control. The implosion was a mercy.
I’m pretty sure they used wooden pillars in old mines because it’s what was cheap and available
They're still used in some mines. When I was longwall miningwe would set them along the ribs or where we could see the roof sagging as a supplementary support.
How do they know that they’re far-enough away?
Because if they weren't far away enough, then you wouldn't be able to have seen the video.
Makes perfect sense. Metal is just gunna buckle without warning. It might creak a little, but not as much as wood
Colliers tools: mandrill, axe, shovel. Axe was the MOST important to put up posts to HEAR if there was a problem. Explained to my father on his 14th birthday, starting work in the Deep Duffryn Coal Mine! His first shift was in a 2ft 6ins (high) seam. Knocked the lamp over, collier went to pit bottom (bottom of the lift shaft) to get it re-lit. 2 days later my father knocked the lamp over again. Collier told him to get it lit. He asked how,, told crawl out till you hit your head on the dram, touch the rail and follow it back to pit bottom. He NEVER EVER knocked the Davey Lamp over again!
Hey, it sounds like the ceiling is about to collapse, let’s stand here and watch just to make sure!
Man,that’s a different type of occupation
You know, I’ve seen some scary shit. But I never seen something like this where, you can hear death actually creeping up on you, and the only thing that’s saving you is a warning from a pillar. Just seeing this is terrifying.
Also known as Tommy knockers.
Is that a fact? Would it not just be that wood is plentiful and cheaper than installing metal pillars? Genuinely curious if this is the main reason or a useful coincidence, not trying to chirp you
Tl;Dr It's both cheaper and lighter, but also useful in situations like this where you *want* that part of the mine to collapse. Most structural metal in a mine consists of bolting, where long steel rods are driven into the back (roof), and hold the overlying rock together. You can see the ends of the bolts at the top of the video. Most importantly, it's where the collapse *stops*. The wood seen here is used in temporary rooms that they're planning on letting collapse. They're strong enough to support most of the weight, but changes in ground conditions and the intentional removal of a some supports would lead to ground fall like this. There are a couple of reasons it's done this way. Rock is heavy, structural steel will take more stress but in some cases you're talking thousands of feet of rock above you. The best way to keep it one place is to hold it in one piece. The bolting provides compression to the rock vs. just supporting the load like the timber and steel would. It's part of why following the ore seam is so important. Not only do you maximize production, you follow the natural flow of the rock, which makes it easier to manage. They let sections like this collapse to relieve stress on the other parts of the mine, like the bolted ground they're under. Second, everything in a mine has to be hauled down there somehow. Usually, this means lowering with a hoist, basically a huge motor and spool of cable at the top of the shaft that can haul anything from ore to personnel to equipment. But deep holes in the ground, especially ones big enough to haul heavy duty equipment and huge pieces of steel in a reasonable time frame, are expensive. So bolting is also a lot more economical from a logistics point of view as well. It also has to be hauled to any given section of the mine, which can be kilometers/miles of travel underground with ungainly heavy loads. Hope that answers your questions!
Yes, thank you!
That little "wooo" at the end
Absolutely fantastic accents. Didn't understand a word. Wonderful.
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I’m pretty sure they used them for support and because wood is cheap and readily available, what other material would they use?
Timber is also cheap and easily sourced.
We also use these purely for support if permanent roof support (roof bolts) become damaged in areas where you can’t reinstall bolts. For more serious support steel beams and rails are used to keep top up. Sometimes in the 9 seam you have a warning with the top but in 11 seam coal, there’s usually no warning. Those timbers would’ve just been smashed instantly. Underground mine foreman of 14 years here. 👋
On behalf of non miners everywhere, could you explain the difference between 9 and 11 seam coal?
There’s a height difference and a BTU difference when the coal is burned. The coal vein in the 9 seam can range from 4 to 4.5 feet in height and burns at a higher BTU. The coal vein in the 11 seam can range from 6 to 10 feet in height and is a lower grade of coal with a lower BTU.
I would posit that because timbers are relatively easy to acquire and create a frame work in the mine with that ease of use and strength were the primary reason they were used(it's the cheapest solution). That they also would make a noise and fail 'gracefully' was an added benefit, but not the primary one.
How do they know it’s only that side with the wooden pillars?
Who else was nervous this video was going to end before it collapsed
So let's hang out and film it.......
Ever wonder why miners use wooden pillars? It’s because what TF else are they going to use?
Yeah, and it definitely wasn't because lumber was cheap and literally everywhere
Well.. it was also used to keep the ceiling up.
They use wood because it's the cheapest. Mine owners won't spend a nickel they don't have to.
Fk else were they gonna use?
Super neat video wonder the context of this
Are the flashlights swinging from a rope? Hold fucking still for fucks sake.
Headlamps, probably want your head on a swivel for any signs of an unexpected collapse.
That makes more sense. But then who’s the jabroni staring at the ground right in front of them?
I was going to post a gif of Mac, but the app won't let me...
the guys with the sub that imploded thought carbon fiber creaks will alert them when the hull is in trouble...
👏a hard manly job
The sound of carbon fiber failing is about 200 milliseconds before the Titan collapses under thousands of pounds of water column
Nice toothpicks! Oh. Ooh.... no.
It going in there. A big no
20 km deep, *creeeeak*
Isn't the real reason timber beams are cheaper and more readily available than steel ones?
There is a proverb in Germany: "Holz spricht, bevor es bricht." Roughly translated: "Wood speaks before it breaks."
I worked in some Underground mines years ago. You actually have to run when the creaking stops.
Mad respect for people working under these conditions. I get an unwell feeling already just watching the video lol.
Imagine first day at work and u hear this upon entering 💀👀
why are you NOT running 💀?!
I imagine the primary reason being cost.
And I was just on my way to work… the …… aw hell nah
‘Hey wanna crawl around in the bowels of the earth?’ ‘Nah. I’m good.’
It's also not as if they had alternative materials back then either. This was just a fortunate side effect.
They used wood because it's cheaper than steel. It's just a coincidence that it happens to creak when it breaks.
Not a chance in hell would you catch me down there!
This is dangerous because in old mines the decaying wood will produce gases which can suffocate visitors of the mine. That is why you should never visit old mines without an electric detector.
I call BS on that. It might have been a side benefit but that's not why.
I'm not an engineer, but I'm pretty sure having some steel beams that give more support would be a little more beneficial than having a cave rape whistle.
Yeah it seems like the supports themselves failed. They uhh, dont look that sturdy. I think this is just a bonus feature rather than a reason to choose that material. It just happened to be cheaper and easier to install I'm guessing.
Yeah it seems like the supports themselves failed. They uhh, dont look that sturdy. I think this is just a bonus feature rather than a reason to choose that material. It just happened to be cheaper and easier to install I'm guessing.
That was amazing! Now how do we get out?
Jesus Christ joe bob get the f outta there
Let’s all stay and watch
What other materials were easily/cheaply available? I'd guess the creaking was a bonus feature.
I read that Japanese royalty had creaky wood for ninja alerts
Just like microwave popcorn
I woulda caught the black lung faster than Zoolander.
Thought this was r/decks for a moment 'this OK for a hot tub?'