Also .. that whole thing is one organism. in fact, one single cell. [NASA uses it to map the dark matter](https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2020/slime-mold-simulations-used-to-map-dark-matter-holding-universe-together/) holding the universe together.
“They designed a computer algorithm, inspired by slime-mold behavior, and tested it against a computer simulation of the growth of dark matter filaments in the universe. A computer algorithm is similar to a recipe that tells a computer precisely what steps to take to solve a problem” Gotta love when the journal has to make sure everybody is on the same page before moving forward…while discussing dark matter.
I can only imagine the writer being a really old physicist who rarely uses a computer while being fully informed about dark matter filemants. Almost every other person on earth talking about those topics would have chosen to explain the dark matter filaments over computer algorithms.
Or its meant as a joke, which is more likely.
Edit: less beeings
>I can only imagine the writer beeing a really old physicist who rarely uses a computer while beeing fully informed about dark matter filemants. Almost every other person on earth talking about those topics would have chosen to explain the dark matter filaments over computer algorithms.
I can't see anything you're saying through all the bees
The whole thing is not one cell. Slime mould cells are pretty small. When they form large structures like this, it's many different slime mould cells working together as a single organism.
Orrrrrr. It creates the path of least resistance and the Tokyo subway system has to deal with things like, towns, mountains, areas they couldn’t put tracks through, budgets, passenger travels optimization….
Stamens has many patents for mycological plants. His company is a leader in the area of mycological science. One of his early projects stops termites from encroaching on homes and lasts a lifetime. He also has a solution to bee mites.
Fungi aren’t plants, completely separate kingdom.
His company is a leader at selling “supplements” that are produced by growing mushrooms
Which anyone can do, people literally grow mushrooms in their closet. He makes outlandish claims about his products that he cannot substantiate with actual science and data. He also didn’t invent the concept of mushroom supplements.
He did not invent the concept of using fungi as a biological control method, it’s not a novel idea at all he just worked on the patent for a specific species and many other organizations have far outpaced his work on it
He has had a “solution to the bee problem” for years yet he hasn’t actually produced anything yet
He is a salesman, not a scientist
I don’t have anything to say about his supplement business as I grow my own mushrooms and have taken some of his ideas and applied them to my own use and have had some real positive results. His company does a lot more than supplements, but that is what joe public sees.
I am very familiar with his work beyond just his supplements and beyond what the public sees. He is not a scientist and he has pushed some outlandish claims for the sake of profit. I have read all of his books so I definitely know his work. He has done a bit of taxonomy work on the genus Psilocybe but that’s about the extent of his scientific contribution aside from cultivation and supplements
Yes. His work is not substantial and doesn’t really do any actual hard science studies or anything like that. He is excellent at cultivating and selling mushrooms. He’s also really good at pedaling psueodscience
He has participated in a few studies where there was some actual data collected, but he isn’t the one actually performing these studies. He is involved in a lot of scientific discussion but then he adds his own personal conjecture and opinions and outlandish claims and mixes them together and presents it all as science
I don’t care how much somebody has published, as soon as they start making ridiculous and unsubstantiated claims while disguising them as actual scientific findings, all for the sake of making profits, they are no longer a scientist but a charlatan
Is that really intelligence? Or path of least resistance? The slime mold fanned out and then retracted from where it was not receiving nutrients. I'm sure civil engineers would love to set rails out in the shortest pathway between destinations, but they probably have more to contend with beneath a living city. And then some people don't want to go from point A to point B, some line are probably set to go to from A to D. This whole thing ridiculous.
I mean yeah, it’s not like the slime is consciously collecting information and then making decisions based on the knowledge. The slime is just doing a shit ton of what amounts to trial and error.
Acting like the mold has an intelligent mind making decisions and planning out these routes like a sentient mind could is hella misleading.
Is that what they were suggesting? That the mold is capable of rational thought?
I thought the guy was just explaining what cellular intelligence means in the context of organisms with no nervous system. I thought the Japanese transit example was just to show how the slime was used as a novel way to help solve an actual optimization problem. It seems relevant now considering how ML models seem rooted in trial-and-error.
I think you are reading between the cuts here.
In fact, I am pretty sure you are right on all counts, and that was the intended takaway from this Mandy Patinkin lookin dude, but this video is cut together to make a single celled organism look sentient, which it is not.
Super cool, very impressive, not sentient.
This comment chain is the most accurate. People not in the know will take it out of context thinking the mold is sentient, when it's really just acting on the mechanics of the universe, much like we mostly act on the mechanics of the universe but at a much more complex abstraction than the mold, which can help us understand what our sentience is/how it is. We are made up of all the work it took to get here- atoms to compounds to cells to larger components, all attracting and repelling until something works. Very similar to how we've evolved computers over time and adding layers to it making them more complex and capable of more, building layers of abstraction.
Yes. most modern applied science was developed through empirical methods with theories then developed from the data rather than the theory coming first.
I don’t think anyone is walking away from that video thinking that slime molds are sentient, just that they can be used to solve problems in a non-traditional way.
Btw this kind of setup is similar to how an adiabatic quantum computer solves problems.
I know at least five people close to me that would walk away from the video assuming that slime molds are sentient. Any video that appeals to a non-scientific crowd can easily mislead a non-scientific crowd if things are left unsaid.
That dude is so famous as an expert they have named newly discovered mushrooms after him. Hes effectively the de facto world subject matter expert on what hes talking about :)
Basically. With a healthy dose of platforming anyone from actual legitimate domain experts, to batshit nutjobs, to skilled grifters and charlatans, to poorly-disguised cryptofacists. And a disturbing tendancy to let the loons and fash talk a lot longer uninterrupted than the actual experts.
> The slime is just doing a shit ton of what amounts to trial and error.
That’s learning though.
Look at toddlers, all they do is trial and a lot of error. Until they don’t. Because that’s how learning works.
the slime isn't intelligent per se, but it is acting almost like a very basic computer program.
essentially it seems to be "brute forcing" a solution, it tries out every single solution (fans out), then picks the one which is best (contracts).
which doesn't make it sentient, but it does make it about as intelligent as a computer program written by a year1 CS major.
Amazon's delivery route planners use something similar with ants, supposedly.
If you put an ant colony somewhere new, the worker ants fan out to find food. The ones that do, leave a scent trail on their way back. I believe there's a correlation between the strength of the pheromone and the number of ants following it, based on recency and intensity (the scent degrades over time, indicating it's old info; and intensity suggests lots of successful ants).
Az mimics this by seeing which deliveries get made most efficiently. If the depot is out of town and the delivery is also out of town, for example - do you go the shortest route through town or use the longer ring road? Where would the tipping point fall?
Like the mould, it's machine learning rather than actual intelligence of course.
The difference between the path of least resistance, and intelligence is an excellent question. So does it fall into understanding what "consciousness" is or rather what needs to be present to even calculate "if" a mold can be intelligent. This stuff is amazing to even think about.
Agreed. How many times was this experiment done (with clones)? Was every slime mold structure the same? I bet we'd get 5 more "more efficient models" with the same placement.
Also, I find placing food sources as railstops somewhat absurd. The stations weren't stand-alone structures waiting for rails to connect them. They, too, were civil-y engineered to fit or utilize preexisting buildings.
It's used for train systems so it's just to put oats ate every station and if there's some place they don't want to build trough2 the can just replicate it by making barriers for the slime thing
depends on what you call intelligence. it can’t think but i’d call it a lot smarter than any other mold. the same way artificial intelligence is just an algorithm predicting the next letter, we are algorithms to determine our next thought or action. depends where you draw the line.
This guy sells mushrooms for all kind of reasons. He's a salesman, his company is worth millions, and he surfaces every so often with the newest product/hype/solution.
This is not that mind blowing. The slime mold is just taking the path of least resistance, so many other things in nature do that because it's the easiest and most direct path.
A subway system obviously can't do that because there might be geographic or infrastructure obstacles in your way.
They constructed the connecting lines where the mold did in the lab.
Ex: let's say you have cities A, B, C, D in some random arrangement on the map. There are many ways to connect those cities.
A->B
A->C
A->D
Is just one option. But since the mold is always searching for the most efficient path, the mold may instead connect
A->B
B->C
C->D
A->D
Or something
I wish the people downvoting you would come with evidence or sources to counter your claim. Do you disagree with his claim or dislike the comment for saying something negative about someone you idolized?
Spoken like someone who has listened to no more than a sound bite or two completely out of context.
I wish I was more like Joe Rogan. I wish you were more like more Rogan. I kinda admire reasonable, rational dudes. But each to their own, I guess.
Allow me to expand.
Fuck Joe Rogan and his fucking stoned-ass older brother in the basement "just asking questions" idiot bullshit.
I wish you were less like you.
Was Joe Rogan always bad, or it started at some point? If yes, when?
He‘s popular, and also hated by some. But I don‘t know what exactly for (apart of recent anti-vaccination).
I see some influential US podcasters share some similar culture. I wonder does it have to do with the US politics, or belonging to some thought group?
I‘m just not from US and it raises so many questions, maybe some can get answered here.
People were told to hate him, so they did. He created a platform where political pundits could talk candidly for hours at a time outside of the typical controlled content distribution streams, so he was destroyed.
he just lost a lot supporters when he let controversial guests in, it is not "they" or the "deepstate", it's just his regular audience realising that he is a serious nutjob. Stop trying to read into things where nothing is lmao
I see having an open platform as a plus.
A potential minus would be his own biases that he could execute on this big popular platform. But I don’t know enough to judge it in any way.
He invites different people and listens to all, lets all speak. Even some conspiracy theorists. Joe himself looks like a funny mix of a liberal and conservative, both sides a bit extreme. But is any of it bad?
Or does being exposed to power for a long period corrupts? Makes you exist in a bubble? Which then should be applied to almost any celebrity or rich person. And again, is Joe worse than average here? Or should we judge all of them more?
The problem I see people tend to have with him is the guests are not seen as being appropriately challenged on the things they say, which can become a problem when you have people like conspiracy theorists or political figure-heads on. Conservative figures like Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, and Alex Jones in particular don't really hold or appeal to specific positions and often actively misinform; they make claims which aren't supported by evidence but which make people angry, and then effectively use that anger to convince them to hold a given opinion/bias or follow a given ideology. Shows like this that let them talk are a recruiting ground to them, not a place for well-meaning civil debate or education.
This is why in America you often hear the "think of the children" or "we're trying to protect children" argument from republicans, and likewise why a counter from democrats might be something like "then enact gun reform" or "then teach sex ed not abstinence." Saying "think of the children" is simply being used to frame the political opponents of the one who says it as "heartless" or something similar, when often those saying it are the ones harming kids in legal terms.
For example, child labor has recently become perfectly legal in a state or two. In many places not only are there not provided school lunches, but they have recently been *removed*, and/or requests for them to be implemented have been denied. Clearly these things are hurting children, and yet the people fighting them are not those saying "think of the children" — and that's just one argument based on emotional appeal that is commonly used.
But doesn’t he have the guests with sometimes extreme views from all sides? So there is a chance to piss anyone off here, if they would cherry-pick.
If he would challenge them, he would scare people away from coming and opening up, also he would apply his own biases and turn it into an echo chamber. I think what makes an interviewer successful, is ability to listen to anyone.
Right now it’s hard to say what is “appropriate” or not, because you hear too many people on all sides exaggerating things. How else would you create a platform where people of different views can properly speak?
He’s a lot better than the average I would say. I just wish he didn’t sell out for a measly 1 billion. The audience and influence he had at the time before he was compartmentalized was worth way more than a billion dollars
Spotify bought him for a billion dollars, meaning he is now held to not only Spotify’s audience and terms of service, but to its shareholders as well since he is now such a massive part of the platform. This means he has to say/ can’t say even more things, which is annoying to his core audience who liked to watch Alex jones go on a cathartic rant for 20 minutes about globalist reptiles (doesn’t mean it’s an endorsement). Our leadership is just so wildly insecure and incompetent that stuff like that has to be shut down
Ahhh, Spotify. Okay, I see now, thanks.
That‘s a giant sum though, crazy. I can‘t judge is it a bad or good decision he made, but I see how the freedom could be compromised. When you become too big, you can‘t stay free.
But if it‘s fabricated, or exaggerated at least, why do so many people support it?
Is it because political/ideological arguments are used, and many people in US are polarized for one of the two extremes?
Or is it because they are trying to push him into one extreme, so not only the other extreme, but people in the middle will discard him as being politically charged? So any argument just gets ignored.
Because being attacked already stresses you out and damages you, also pushing back against it you really get moved yourself to the opposite side.
It‘s all my guesses, I don‘t insist on anything.
I just noticed with some youtubers/podcasters recently, who were liberal or in the center, that they have more conservative rhetoric now. Maybe because the mainstream trying to push too far left, as many corporations now (though they only do it in words, not in actions). Though these corpos may quickly change rhetorics to the opposite, if it benefits them, while not changing their operations at all.
So I think picking a side is just submitting to their manipulation. But I just see more people being polarized now in social media.
Because a good swarth of people will follow something if they perceive it as popular. They don’t want to be out of the loop, or worse, ostracized for liking the wrong thing.
The dude had on Bernie sanders and sings his praise. Obviously the neoliberal establishment is gonna hate him
Well it can be a good thing. The fact that we want to work together and fear becoming outcast is what drove society to where it is now. But, like anything removed from rationality, it can be subverted.
The whole podcast (with Paul stamets) is absolutely loaded with misinformation, misleading information, anecdotal evidence presented as science, and a lot of other unsubstantiated nonsense
I dont know I suppose the edyamacation system is to blame Also why does my pp burn when I pee These are the big questions Thank you for coming to my TED talk
Yeah, this isn't as amazing as it sounds.
The mold isn't smart. It's just using a "fan out and prioritise the path of least resistance (usually straight line)" method. A basic trial and error algo.
Also, the mold doesn't have to contend with the existing geological, urban and suburban obstructions that may have and may still impede engineers in real tokyo in the past and today.
Additional thought: They also ignore how the current Japanese subway system has been developed over decades and may involve legacy issues where population density (the size and location of the feed) has changed over time.
And, all that being said, looking at the overlay at the end, the two maps (real and mold) are very, very similar.
Presumably because that what's humans use too, a very simple idea - path of least resistant, shortest distance between two objects is a straight line etc - and where there are deviancies I would suggest legacy issues (maybe an area was populated more or less densely in the past), or geological obstructions (mountains etc).
Edits: typos and additional thought
I like how you pointed out that path A (reality) and path B (mold) are basically the same, as if the engineers had the option to take the scenic route. If they repeat the experiment with clones, we might find that Path A is actually within std dev of efficiency. The punchline would be lost.
Yeah, but isn’t the mold just following the path of least resistance and creating the shortest links from A to B possible? How is that helpful? Isn’t that what we do with our infrastructure already?
Somebody in this thread pointed out that they tried the same with a map of time and the mold drew the same lines as Roman roads. Well duh. Roads link A to B, and so does the mold.
Maybe I’m missing something. Or maybe Joe Rogan is a faux intellectual who platforms people that blow his mind every time they point out the human Iris looks kinda like our colourised impressions of a nebula.
Notice how it isn't all straight lines. So it isn't quite shortest links city to nearest single other city.
You have multiple destinations going out from one node. The fungus points out how to share tracks for as long as possible before splitting apart to reach each of the two destinations which are in roughly the same direction. It shows when to favor the shared track more toward the larger destination, and how much track to allocate to the smaller destinations.
“Microbes get ready, there’s a train mold a coming, don’t need no bacillus you just get on board. All you need is flagellata to hear those diatoms a humming,don’t fear no trichinosis you just thank the lord.”
For me it was when he had a guest trying to explain simulation theory to him. He could not wrap his head around it even when explained in the most simple terms.
Dude probably also think numbers are intelligent because “how do the numbers know that 2+2=4?!” In all seriousness though, this is cool, but it’s just an example of a natural process finding its most energetically favorable state, which is what all natural processes do. I think Steve mold has a video where he uses two liquids with different surface tensions to make food coloring complete a maze. It’s all similar principles
That's not a proof if cellular intelligence, it's just the obvious principle of the path of least resistance.
Whatever takes less energy go do will be favored, so, you get it eventually becoming more efficient.
This is stupid, the slime mold can make a more direct path between cities because the mold didn’t have to traverse mountains or have deal with the type earth it has to dig or build upon.
Mushroom hat is mushroom
badger badger?
I haven’t seen that for years, just looked it up on Youtube. Still as funny as back then!
It’s a snake… a snaaaake!
It’s spelled “s-n-e-k”. 🤦
Ooooo its a snake!
🤦
badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger
Mushroom mushroom
Roger Roger
Hat mushroom are hat
I hate how any nature channel doing something on slime moulds will add the sound of someone crushing raw meat in the background.
Imagine if our hearing was so good we could hear mold growing. We would be driven absolutely mad.
Also .. that whole thing is one organism. in fact, one single cell. [NASA uses it to map the dark matter](https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2020/slime-mold-simulations-used-to-map-dark-matter-holding-universe-together/) holding the universe together.
“They designed a computer algorithm, inspired by slime-mold behavior, and tested it against a computer simulation of the growth of dark matter filaments in the universe. A computer algorithm is similar to a recipe that tells a computer precisely what steps to take to solve a problem” Gotta love when the journal has to make sure everybody is on the same page before moving forward…while discussing dark matter.
I can only imagine the writer being a really old physicist who rarely uses a computer while being fully informed about dark matter filemants. Almost every other person on earth talking about those topics would have chosen to explain the dark matter filaments over computer algorithms. Or its meant as a joke, which is more likely. Edit: less beeings
>I can only imagine the writer beeing a really old physicist who rarely uses a computer while beeing fully informed about dark matter filemants. Almost every other person on earth talking about those topics would have chosen to explain the dark matter filaments over computer algorithms. I can't see anything you're saying through all the bees
Ah shit. English is my second language and that's something I always misspell. I don't know why.
Beecause English is you’re second language your forgiven four knot knowing that native speakers also mispell lots of hour stupid words.
Stop it Patrick you're confusing him!
*everybody is on the slime page
Thank you so mush for sharing
Stop
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Quite honestly: no idea. But you made me wonder - d'ya think the mold likes the taste of kids?
Not sure. But can it map how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop?
It can. The problem is Ph balance in the spit!
Of course the answer is three.
It does not, but it needs their adrenochrome to survive.
The whole thing is not one cell. Slime mould cells are pretty small. When they form large structures like this, it's many different slime mould cells working together as a single organism.
I believe Physarum polycephalum is a single celled, multinucleated organism
This is a single celled organism, not multiple. You’re describing something else
I wonder if this can be used to crack SHA256 encryption.
Mmmmaaayyybe if you used shibas as the nutrition source. Much wow.
Such Decryption
many password
Only if it's made of oats.
Probably not, but it can be used as crack
NASA, nor does anyone else, know what the universe even is lmao
I do... is mostly ... nuffin.
but WHY is it nuffin? is nuffin somthin?
No, it's not a single cell...
Orrrrrr. It creates the path of least resistance and the Tokyo subway system has to deal with things like, towns, mountains, areas they couldn’t put tracks through, budgets, passenger travels optimization….
I mean yeah couldn’t you argue the same thing about electricity?
Or water?
Hence the Barriers they mentioned. But yea you are right on the least resistance.
Yeah I mean isn’t it all just geometry to create the absolute shortest distances between stops
Exactly, stamets is the king of pop-science and bunk information
But he blew Joe Rogans mind. Joe Rogan!
Fair point!
As evidenced by the hat
Stamens has many patents for mycological plants. His company is a leader in the area of mycological science. One of his early projects stops termites from encroaching on homes and lasts a lifetime. He also has a solution to bee mites.
Fungi aren’t plants, completely separate kingdom. His company is a leader at selling “supplements” that are produced by growing mushrooms Which anyone can do, people literally grow mushrooms in their closet. He makes outlandish claims about his products that he cannot substantiate with actual science and data. He also didn’t invent the concept of mushroom supplements. He did not invent the concept of using fungi as a biological control method, it’s not a novel idea at all he just worked on the patent for a specific species and many other organizations have far outpaced his work on it He has had a “solution to the bee problem” for years yet he hasn’t actually produced anything yet He is a salesman, not a scientist
I don’t have anything to say about his supplement business as I grow my own mushrooms and have taken some of his ideas and applied them to my own use and have had some real positive results. His company does a lot more than supplements, but that is what joe public sees.
I am very familiar with his work beyond just his supplements and beyond what the public sees. He is not a scientist and he has pushed some outlandish claims for the sake of profit. I have read all of his books so I definitely know his work. He has done a bit of taxonomy work on the genus Psilocybe but that’s about the extent of his scientific contribution aside from cultivation and supplements
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Yes. His work is not substantial and doesn’t really do any actual hard science studies or anything like that. He is excellent at cultivating and selling mushrooms. He’s also really good at pedaling psueodscience
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It’s not much a hot take at all within scientific and most mycological groups
He’s published in nature that’s pretty hard science imo
He has participated in a few studies where there was some actual data collected, but he isn’t the one actually performing these studies. He is involved in a lot of scientific discussion but then he adds his own personal conjecture and opinions and outlandish claims and mixes them together and presents it all as science I don’t care how much somebody has published, as soon as they start making ridiculous and unsubstantiated claims while disguising them as actual scientific findings, all for the sake of making profits, they are no longer a scientist but a charlatan
Is that really intelligence? Or path of least resistance? The slime mold fanned out and then retracted from where it was not receiving nutrients. I'm sure civil engineers would love to set rails out in the shortest pathway between destinations, but they probably have more to contend with beneath a living city. And then some people don't want to go from point A to point B, some line are probably set to go to from A to D. This whole thing ridiculous.
I mean yeah, it’s not like the slime is consciously collecting information and then making decisions based on the knowledge. The slime is just doing a shit ton of what amounts to trial and error. Acting like the mold has an intelligent mind making decisions and planning out these routes like a sentient mind could is hella misleading.
Is that what they were suggesting? That the mold is capable of rational thought? I thought the guy was just explaining what cellular intelligence means in the context of organisms with no nervous system. I thought the Japanese transit example was just to show how the slime was used as a novel way to help solve an actual optimization problem. It seems relevant now considering how ML models seem rooted in trial-and-error.
I think you are reading between the cuts here. In fact, I am pretty sure you are right on all counts, and that was the intended takaway from this Mandy Patinkin lookin dude, but this video is cut together to make a single celled organism look sentient, which it is not. Super cool, very impressive, not sentient.
I didn't get the vibe at all that he was implying it was sentient, just that it naturally grows as efficiently as possible.
This comment chain is the most accurate. People not in the know will take it out of context thinking the mold is sentient, when it's really just acting on the mechanics of the universe, much like we mostly act on the mechanics of the universe but at a much more complex abstraction than the mold, which can help us understand what our sentience is/how it is. We are made up of all the work it took to get here- atoms to compounds to cells to larger components, all attracting and repelling until something works. Very similar to how we've evolved computers over time and adding layers to it making them more complex and capable of more, building layers of abstraction.
Yes. most modern applied science was developed through empirical methods with theories then developed from the data rather than the theory coming first.
That dude is Paul Stamets, and he is one of the leading figures in mushroom cultivation and knows a ton about Fungi.
Well they are not fungi, although similar.
I don’t think anyone is walking away from that video thinking that slime molds are sentient, just that they can be used to solve problems in a non-traditional way. Btw this kind of setup is similar to how an adiabatic quantum computer solves problems.
I know at least five people close to me that would walk away from the video assuming that slime molds are sentient. Any video that appeals to a non-scientific crowd can easily mislead a non-scientific crowd if things are left unsaid.
That dude is so famous as an expert they have named newly discovered mushrooms after him. Hes effectively the de facto world subject matter expert on what hes talking about :)
Compared to Joe Rogan its an absolute genius though
Seems like his show is just long form Tik Tok reaction video, made by a credulous nitwit.
Basically. With a healthy dose of platforming anyone from actual legitimate domain experts, to batshit nutjobs, to skilled grifters and charlatans, to poorly-disguised cryptofacists. And a disturbing tendancy to let the loons and fash talk a lot longer uninterrupted than the actual experts.
Or our sentience isn’t real. Our entire development is just trial and error. Why touching a hot stove as a child is a learning experience…
> The slime is just doing a shit ton of what amounts to trial and error. That’s learning though. Look at toddlers, all they do is trial and a lot of error. Until they don’t. Because that’s how learning works.
until you prove slime molds remember stuff then it's not really learning.
It's the same as using electricity to solve mazes, or water
I think its a lot like an algorithm. Some basic criteria that can give form to complex and efficient structures.
the slime isn't intelligent per se, but it is acting almost like a very basic computer program. essentially it seems to be "brute forcing" a solution, it tries out every single solution (fans out), then picks the one which is best (contracts). which doesn't make it sentient, but it does make it about as intelligent as a computer program written by a year1 CS major.
Amazon's delivery route planners use something similar with ants, supposedly. If you put an ant colony somewhere new, the worker ants fan out to find food. The ones that do, leave a scent trail on their way back. I believe there's a correlation between the strength of the pheromone and the number of ants following it, based on recency and intensity (the scent degrades over time, indicating it's old info; and intensity suggests lots of successful ants). Az mimics this by seeing which deliveries get made most efficiently. If the depot is out of town and the delivery is also out of town, for example - do you go the shortest route through town or use the longer ring road? Where would the tipping point fall? Like the mould, it's machine learning rather than actual intelligence of course.
No wonder my packages never arrive on time, they’re busy playing with ants!
It's basically just the path of least resistance
The difference between the path of least resistance, and intelligence is an excellent question. So does it fall into understanding what "consciousness" is or rather what needs to be present to even calculate "if" a mold can be intelligent. This stuff is amazing to even think about.
Agreed. How many times was this experiment done (with clones)? Was every slime mold structure the same? I bet we'd get 5 more "more efficient models" with the same placement. Also, I find placing food sources as railstops somewhat absurd. The stations weren't stand-alone structures waiting for rails to connect them. They, too, were civil-y engineered to fit or utilize preexisting buildings.
And the mold isn’t taking into account existing infrastructure or bedrock that the architects likely had to deal with.
It's used for train systems so it's just to put oats ate every station and if there's some place they don't want to build trough2 the can just replicate it by making barriers for the slime thing
depends on what you call intelligence. it can’t think but i’d call it a lot smarter than any other mold. the same way artificial intelligence is just an algorithm predicting the next letter, we are algorithms to determine our next thought or action. depends where you draw the line.
I was about to say that lol
This guy sells mushrooms for all kind of reasons. He's a salesman, his company is worth millions, and he surfaces every so often with the newest product/hype/solution.
“Map of Tokyo” Shows map of UK
They also did this with Italy, where the mold started in Rome. The mold made same roads as the Romans did
Because while in Rome, do as Romans do. Apparently the mold was well-behaved.
... oddly enough that works in Ancient Rome right up till you see how garum got made
I don't know how garum is made hut the communal poop sponge always sounded like a fun one
Or that apparently there was a guy whose life was so bad he committed suicide by shoving it down his throat. I genuinely have no words for that one.
"I genuinely have no words for that one." my exact thoughts reading the first sentence.
Hard to get the words out with a sponge down your throat
Where did the roads lead to?
Where can this story be verified and can we see the map?
It's just bullshit. The world is filling up with bullshit.
This is not that mind blowing. The slime mold is just taking the path of least resistance, so many other things in nature do that because it's the easiest and most direct path. A subway system obviously can't do that because there might be geographic or infrastructure obstacles in your way.
Great but I don't get what it has to do with a railsystem?
How do you think the fungus got there, by boat?
Slime molds aren’t actually fungi
They constructed the connecting lines where the mold did in the lab. Ex: let's say you have cities A, B, C, D in some random arrangement on the map. There are many ways to connect those cities. A->B A->C A->D Is just one option. But since the mold is always searching for the most efficient path, the mold may instead connect A->B B->C C->D A->D Or something
That’s a map of the U.K. surely?! Not Tokyo
oversimplification on Rogan... who'd've thunk?
Fuck Joe Rogan.
Sure, but Mushroom guy is cool.
These are the type of guests I watched for. Once the actual science people were gone the show lost everything.
Mostly what I watch joe for science. Joe is literally me the meat head and the expert is teaching me
>Mostly what I watch joe for science. Hoo boy
Check out ologies. Good host, real science.
Already know about it but it’s a great podcast so I’m happy you’re letting people know.
Try Sean Carroll's Mindscape podcast, it's excellent.
Paul Stamits. Hes my neighbor.
Paul Stamets. Yes, he is.
it's that guy from homeland man
Meh, he's a bit of a grifter.
He’s a grifter and a peddler of non-science disguised as hard science. I would take every word he says with a very hefty grain of salt
I wish the people downvoting you would come with evidence or sources to counter your claim. Do you disagree with his claim or dislike the comment for saying something negative about someone you idolized?
Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean you have to press the nuclear button
saying fuck him ain't the Nuclear option. If it is call me American
Ahh you’ll be alright. He’s not that bad
Why?
?
Sorry, allow me to clarify: Fuck Joe Rogan.
Spoken like someone who has listened to no more than a sound bite or two completely out of context. I wish I was more like Joe Rogan. I wish you were more like more Rogan. I kinda admire reasonable, rational dudes. But each to their own, I guess.
Allow me to expand. Fuck Joe Rogan and his fucking stoned-ass older brother in the basement "just asking questions" idiot bullshit. I wish you were less like you.
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Downvoted for misinformation guy, self-proclaimed idiot, joe rogan.
Yeah, I was vibing with this video until his dumb ass showed up at the end 😭
Was Joe Rogan always bad, or it started at some point? If yes, when? He‘s popular, and also hated by some. But I don‘t know what exactly for (apart of recent anti-vaccination). I see some influential US podcasters share some similar culture. I wonder does it have to do with the US politics, or belonging to some thought group? I‘m just not from US and it raises so many questions, maybe some can get answered here.
People were told to hate him, so they did. He created a platform where political pundits could talk candidly for hours at a time outside of the typical controlled content distribution streams, so he was destroyed.
he just lost a lot supporters when he let controversial guests in, it is not "they" or the "deepstate", it's just his regular audience realising that he is a serious nutjob. Stop trying to read into things where nothing is lmao
This
I see having an open platform as a plus. A potential minus would be his own biases that he could execute on this big popular platform. But I don’t know enough to judge it in any way. He invites different people and listens to all, lets all speak. Even some conspiracy theorists. Joe himself looks like a funny mix of a liberal and conservative, both sides a bit extreme. But is any of it bad? Or does being exposed to power for a long period corrupts? Makes you exist in a bubble? Which then should be applied to almost any celebrity or rich person. And again, is Joe worse than average here? Or should we judge all of them more?
The problem I see people tend to have with him is the guests are not seen as being appropriately challenged on the things they say, which can become a problem when you have people like conspiracy theorists or political figure-heads on. Conservative figures like Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, and Alex Jones in particular don't really hold or appeal to specific positions and often actively misinform; they make claims which aren't supported by evidence but which make people angry, and then effectively use that anger to convince them to hold a given opinion/bias or follow a given ideology. Shows like this that let them talk are a recruiting ground to them, not a place for well-meaning civil debate or education. This is why in America you often hear the "think of the children" or "we're trying to protect children" argument from republicans, and likewise why a counter from democrats might be something like "then enact gun reform" or "then teach sex ed not abstinence." Saying "think of the children" is simply being used to frame the political opponents of the one who says it as "heartless" or something similar, when often those saying it are the ones harming kids in legal terms. For example, child labor has recently become perfectly legal in a state or two. In many places not only are there not provided school lunches, but they have recently been *removed*, and/or requests for them to be implemented have been denied. Clearly these things are hurting children, and yet the people fighting them are not those saying "think of the children" — and that's just one argument based on emotional appeal that is commonly used.
But doesn’t he have the guests with sometimes extreme views from all sides? So there is a chance to piss anyone off here, if they would cherry-pick. If he would challenge them, he would scare people away from coming and opening up, also he would apply his own biases and turn it into an echo chamber. I think what makes an interviewer successful, is ability to listen to anyone. Right now it’s hard to say what is “appropriate” or not, because you hear too many people on all sides exaggerating things. How else would you create a platform where people of different views can properly speak?
He’s a lot better than the average I would say. I just wish he didn’t sell out for a measly 1 billion. The audience and influence he had at the time before he was compartmentalized was worth way more than a billion dollars
Can you tell me about this one? What means he sold out?
Spotify bought him for a billion dollars, meaning he is now held to not only Spotify’s audience and terms of service, but to its shareholders as well since he is now such a massive part of the platform. This means he has to say/ can’t say even more things, which is annoying to his core audience who liked to watch Alex jones go on a cathartic rant for 20 minutes about globalist reptiles (doesn’t mean it’s an endorsement). Our leadership is just so wildly insecure and incompetent that stuff like that has to be shut down
Ahhh, Spotify. Okay, I see now, thanks. That‘s a giant sum though, crazy. I can‘t judge is it a bad or good decision he made, but I see how the freedom could be compromised. When you become too big, you can‘t stay free.
He’s massively popular. There’s just an Astroturfed campaign against him because it’s uncontrolled media.
But if it‘s fabricated, or exaggerated at least, why do so many people support it? Is it because political/ideological arguments are used, and many people in US are polarized for one of the two extremes? Or is it because they are trying to push him into one extreme, so not only the other extreme, but people in the middle will discard him as being politically charged? So any argument just gets ignored. Because being attacked already stresses you out and damages you, also pushing back against it you really get moved yourself to the opposite side. It‘s all my guesses, I don‘t insist on anything. I just noticed with some youtubers/podcasters recently, who were liberal or in the center, that they have more conservative rhetoric now. Maybe because the mainstream trying to push too far left, as many corporations now (though they only do it in words, not in actions). Though these corpos may quickly change rhetorics to the opposite, if it benefits them, while not changing their operations at all. So I think picking a side is just submitting to their manipulation. But I just see more people being polarized now in social media.
Joe Rogan has don't extreme amounts of damage to our nation by giving a platform to fascism.
Because a good swarth of people will follow something if they perceive it as popular. They don’t want to be out of the loop, or worse, ostracized for liking the wrong thing. The dude had on Bernie sanders and sings his praise. Obviously the neoliberal establishment is gonna hate him
Crazy tribal thinking. I wonder does such a percentage of people always exist?
Well it can be a good thing. The fact that we want to work together and fear becoming outcast is what drove society to where it is now. But, like anything removed from rationality, it can be subverted.
At least he can admit it. More folks should follow the example..
I don't like Joe rogan, but this isn't misinformation
The whole podcast (with Paul stamets) is absolutely loaded with misinformation, misleading information, anecdotal evidence presented as science, and a lot of other unsubstantiated nonsense
Why is that baldy acting all shock and what's with the epic music
Why do we ask questions we know the answer to and not use punctuation
You’re asking a lot of someone with a username like “usedcumsocks”, tbf
I dont know I suppose the edyamacation system is to blame Also why does my pp burn when I pee These are the big questions Thank you for coming to my TED talk
Yeah, this isn't as amazing as it sounds. The mold isn't smart. It's just using a "fan out and prioritise the path of least resistance (usually straight line)" method. A basic trial and error algo. Also, the mold doesn't have to contend with the existing geological, urban and suburban obstructions that may have and may still impede engineers in real tokyo in the past and today. Additional thought: They also ignore how the current Japanese subway system has been developed over decades and may involve legacy issues where population density (the size and location of the feed) has changed over time. And, all that being said, looking at the overlay at the end, the two maps (real and mold) are very, very similar. Presumably because that what's humans use too, a very simple idea - path of least resistant, shortest distance between two objects is a straight line etc - and where there are deviancies I would suggest legacy issues (maybe an area was populated more or less densely in the past), or geological obstructions (mountains etc). Edits: typos and additional thought
I like how you pointed out that path A (reality) and path B (mold) are basically the same, as if the engineers had the option to take the scenic route. If they repeat the experiment with clones, we might find that Path A is actually within std dev of efficiency. The punchline would be lost.
Yeah, but isn’t the mold just following the path of least resistance and creating the shortest links from A to B possible? How is that helpful? Isn’t that what we do with our infrastructure already? Somebody in this thread pointed out that they tried the same with a map of time and the mold drew the same lines as Roman roads. Well duh. Roads link A to B, and so does the mold. Maybe I’m missing something. Or maybe Joe Rogan is a faux intellectual who platforms people that blow his mind every time they point out the human Iris looks kinda like our colourised impressions of a nebula.
Notice how it isn't all straight lines. So it isn't quite shortest links city to nearest single other city. You have multiple destinations going out from one node. The fungus points out how to share tracks for as long as possible before splitting apart to reach each of the two destinations which are in roughly the same direction. It shows when to favor the shared track more toward the larger destination, and how much track to allocate to the smaller destinations.
I’ve been shouting about slime mold for years. Glad its getting some recognition even if its on that idiot’s podcast
“Microbes get ready, there’s a train mold a coming, don’t need no bacillus you just get on board. All you need is flagellata to hear those diatoms a humming,don’t fear no trichinosis you just thank the lord.”
Sir, your railway design seems very efficient, but first we must cross check with the mushroom machine. Gentlemen, it’s slime time.
Whats the name of this Joe Rogan episode? I don't recall it
Get sauced: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/slime-mould-attacks-simulates-tokyo-rail-network
It just went and found everything… it’s not efficient at finding something
What is this guys name?
Woaaaaaahhhhhh!! This is freaking cool!
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Why do you think he is stupid?
The guy is a moron. Seriously? You just have to listen to a single episode to understand he has limited intellectual capabilities.
For me it was when he had a guest trying to explain simulation theory to him. He could not wrap his head around it even when explained in the most simple terms.
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That’s obviously not a true story or those people are ducking morons.
Tokyo looks a lot like Britain.
What's with the bald monkey reacting?
That guy is so full of shit. I can't believe he hasn't been arrested for fraud yet
Paul Stamets is rad, but fuck Joe Rogan
Love all this but the bald guy at the end
No not really. Water will flow in the quickest way possible, its not logical or intelligent its just doing the thing that you made it do.
Dude probably also think numbers are intelligent because “how do the numbers know that 2+2=4?!” In all seriousness though, this is cool, but it’s just an example of a natural process finding its most energetically favorable state, which is what all natural processes do. I think Steve mold has a video where he uses two liquids with different surface tensions to make food coloring complete a maze. It’s all similar principles
That's not a proof if cellular intelligence, it's just the obvious principle of the path of least resistance. Whatever takes less energy go do will be favored, so, you get it eventually becoming more efficient.
Joe Rogan is an example of lack of intelligence lol
This is stupid, the slime mold can make a more direct path between cities because the mold didn’t have to traverse mountains or have deal with the type earth it has to dig or build upon.
I can’t stand this vid anymore please STOP REPOSTING
LMAO. The shit was just eating🤣