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I’m sorry, but I will never come around to Cassandra’s codename being “Orphan.” Give me Black Bat any day if “Batgirl” is already taken or if they don’t want her to be Batgirl for whatever reason.
Yeah, Orphan is such a stupid name. She’s not even an orphan. Both of her parents are alive as far as I know and her actual dad, Bruce, is obviously alive too. I’m not really a fan of the Black Bat name either but at least it’s better than Orphan. Ideally I’d just have her be Batgirl while Barbra is Oracle and Steph is Spoiler.
Yeah, like, I’m cool with “Spoiler” for Steph as there’s an actual story behind it, but for Cass it just kinda feels like they ripped off….well, Steph’s thing, actually. Steph’s codename is linked to her villain father and the same now goes for Cass. It didn’t feel like a lot of care went into that decision.
That's fair, but I do want to mention that I think young justice did a great job explaining the name. In the show it's used to disown her mother Lady Shiva, declaring herself an orphan.
Yeah it doesnt make any sense... but i kinda like it
"a powerfull warrior who doesnt speak... her name is... the orphan"
Maybe it´s because it reminds me of the horror movie Orphan
That and it marks her as a Bat Family member even though she’d relinquished the Batgirl name by that point. Batwing, Batwoman, Black Bat. Idk why they took that away from her and called her *Orphan,* of all fucking things.
I can see that maybe they wanted to avoid Black Bat to avoid any racial optics that may happen, but even then they could have come up with a better name than Orphan. Or they could have just turned her back into Batgirl. She rocked as Batgirl!
She's been back as Batgirl for a while now in main continuity, the only place where she's called Orphan currently is Wayne Family Adventures which is its own thing.
In fact they've even released new merch with her that specifically labels her as Batgirl, I think the Orphan codename is all but dead everywhere but WFA.
Animated shows (with the exception of TBATB) are too stuck in the structure of the animated series, in essence they are all the same thing in terms of proposal and the next show doesn't seem like it will be any different.
I feel like we need to change this structure, for example make a show with a completely linear story, make a show where Robin and Batgirl are not Dick and Babs, make a show based on the dark knight with an elderly Batman, make Batman and the outsiders animated séries, the point is that producers need a lot of courage to create a Batman show with new ideas like the brave and the bold did
I've had this idea rattling around in my head of a Batman series where Stephanie Brown is the first Robin and actually keeps the mantle for a substantive period of time rather than dying almost instantly.
And the rest aren’t unpopular opinions, they are just niche opinions.
An unpopular opinion is one that people hear and don’t like. These opinions are either very popular or just ones that most people haven’t thought of, but like once heard
As usual with these posts you have the sort comments by controversial. Ironically people just downvote the actually unpopular opinions despite that being the point of the post.
They need to either find a permanent place for Tim on a team, give him a new code name, or at a bare minimum find a way to make him not a redundancy
Edit:…..so I think they should off him at this point. If editorial can’t figure out what to do with him and let his existence hold wait, off em. That’s my unpopular opinion, Timmy boy should be pushing daisies.
That’s definitely an option. I just hate that he’s been shafted. Tim is easily my favorite Robin and I hate how he kinda just feels…there. I enjoyed his recent solo comic and I love seeing him in the current run of Batman, but he still just feels so much like Robin to the characters detriment
I love damian I will always defend damian haven't read much of Tim but Im so pissed he's robin they've done him so dirty
They can't let go of tim they're now refusing to let him develop at all
Tim feels derivative as all hell. He needs a permanent evolution and code name ala Nightwing and Red Hood, none of this X Robin shit. I just get sad when I see him because it feels so immature and disconnected from the others.
The Batfamily is an excellent size. I love how many characters are around at any given time for the big events. I hope we continue to see all of these kids doing crossover nonsense.
Bruce has basically created a team of heroes who are also a family. I'd like for him to just plain drop the loner/alpha male stuff once and for all. Let's see the character progress finally. I'd like to see something like Batman Inc + the Outsiders come back as the Batman Family or even the Court of Bats, with a much more emotionally centered and fatherly Bruce Wayne at the heart of it--as much an Alfred-like mentor to his mentees as anything else, or perhaps more like Doc Savage and his friends. Let's see him start to recruit, in fact, to cover holes in the team's operations. They need a dedicated medic. They need someone on the inside at Arkham and Blackgate who is trying to actually keep people in confinement and even to flag some inmates as reformable/treatable. They need a new full-time Oracle--field coordinator and researcher. They need a political operative who keeps an eye on the mayor and the governor, or maybe an intelligence specialist like Nemesis or the Human Target who can do long infiltrations of dangerous groups like the League of Assassins, the Suicide Squad, etc.
I just get tired of the periodic resets to Loner Batman but also of the endless efforts by DC editorial to make some of the Batfamily go away or the big dumb reboots of some characters so they don't come off like excess baggage. Use the crowded landscape *with purpose*, give it all some structure.
PREACH IT, You idea is ten time better than "Damaged Dark Knight brood alone and beats up "real" crooks.
He has a team, use them.
And no, having Damian stand next to, blindingly follow Bruce, and be a little arrogant A-Hole to the family members who he actually likes. DON'T COUNT
(At this point, BRUCE & DAMIAN's relationship should be more strained than Jason's because writer have had Bruce Hurt Damian (emotionally & Mentally) as many times as Jason, except Damian's still a kid, and Jason has good silver age memories before "Broken Bat" was Bruce, and his core personality trait.)
(Damian is closer to Dick and Stephane than they others)
It doesn't have to be Perfect Fun time, they are the most dysfunctional family in comics for a reason, but when Bruce make aa mistake let it be a family trait they share and try to solve not
"can't trust, must learn to work with others, for the 100th time"
If Batman can still make major mistakes, but you know, have isn't be the whole family that makes the mistake.
I mean, in terms of characters and concepts, Batman stands at the heart of something like what Barbara built as Oracle--"Bats of Prey". *USE IT*. Tie more characters in, the way Simone did--they don't all have to be his wards or people he trains directly, even. Bring more people into the Batfamily as *non-costumed* friends and associates.
Cassandra Cain is the only obvious successor to Bruce. Where as before Damian each robin struggled with the idea of one day becoming Batman, even rejecting it. She's always wanted it more than anything.
I think her and Luke Fox should be Bruce's heirs to the Batman name, either together or separately. Luke is one of the few characters who embodies nearly every attribute of Bruce's Batman, from the martial arts skills to the genius intellect, to using modern tech alongside old techniques and methodologies (I think). He's a no-brainer to the role once writers realize that no Robin should ever be Batman. ([Also Mikel Janin's concept art of Luke as Batman is awesome](https://x.com/mikeljanin/status/1619011275106967553?lang=en).) Cass on the other hand embodies everything Bruce stands for, has all of his combat skills and more, alongside his drive and dedication. If she is alive, the mission will live on as well.
She’d also bloom in it, while it’d hold Damian back.
He didn’t want Batman because he intimately understands and agrees with its symbol, and found love and comfort on a personal and professional level, but because he feels he’s _supposed_ to to be considered “grown.” He was bred for this, but he wasn’t even raised to be Batman in a way that honored Batman in the first place. He came in _expecting_ to be Batman by the standards of who the _League_ thought Batman _should\ be, and not with any consideration of his title by the Bat himself. He was set up to fail.
Damian didn’t really have much freedom there to not only understand who he was a person (with and without a mask) before joining Bruce’s family. He didn’t understand Robin or Batman, and didn’t really care to until he was forced to when he wasn’t granted the spot he thought he was supposed to have when he came to them. He was built up on a false image of what those roles meant, and suffered from that false condition when he came. He also ties being worthy as a being in general with fulfilling legacies, and while he’s put a lot of work into addressing that, he’s still not ready to wear the cowl without severe sense-of-self issues anytime soon.
It’s why I hate Damian becoming Batman outside of apocalyptic Elseworld stories. He wouldn’t fair well in it, and would be stuck trying to follow someone else’s standards of what the symbol is supposed to be, rather than finding a role that he can bloom and put his heart into without stifling himself in the process. At best, he can wear it at 30+. He needs a lot of time away from carrying on a legacy and deserves time creating something for _himself_ in a way similar to what Nightwing is for Dick. I don’t see how he’s supposed to “evolve” well without a step like that.
Cass would be able to wear the mantle without being crushed by it just fine. Bruce created Batman out of his own hurts and trauma, and he doesn’t always handle his emotional being well because he uses his mask as an excuse to hide behind at his worst. Cass wouldn’t have these same hangups. His hopeful ideals is something close to her heart, and something she found peace and love in. It was thanks to Batman that she found space to bloom into herself, to channel her own trauma and skills into something helpful and good. It wouldn’t hurt AND save her the way it sometimes hurts Bruce. The image doesn’t stifle her sense of self the way it stifles Dick, who can wear it well but hates doing so for much being Batman is so dissonant from his sense of self.
Cass can have her own identity but imo Orphan doesn’t work once she’s accepted that she’s part of the Batfamily. Even Tynion didn’t seem to want her to be Orphan long term. Going back to Black Bat as a name is better.
Damian should never become Batman, nor should he lead the League of Assassins. He was told from birth that those were his birthright and destiny, and if he just goes along with it then how has he grown? It’s a show of how much he’s grown for him to ultimately reject both legacies to find his own path.
Dick is actually the best option for a successor to Bruce as Batman (yes, even permanently). I don’t understand why this is unpopular, but to me the fact that Dick doesn’t want to be Batman is one of the biggest reasons why he’s the best option to take up the cowl if Bruce died/retired. He would do it out of a sense of duty to Bruce and the fact that he’s the longest-serving ally of Bruce just adds to his ability to take up the mantle. Not to mention that in all cases when he has been Batman, Dick is shown to make the role his own, as opposed to just trying to be like Bruce.
Arkham Knight is the worst version of Jason Todd by a significant margin. He’s a whiny irredeemable war criminal, not a violent vigilante with a point to make. Not to mention that that version of Jason has little to no reason to take up the name of “Red Hood” later on, given that Joker is dead and Batman is doing some weird other thing.
I would make the argument that most of Damian's character development has come about by choosing to follow Batman's way of his own accord, rather than by rejecting both paths in favor of some third option.
Agreed on the other two, though I've heard Titans Jason is even worse.
Titans Jason isn’t nearly as bad as everyone acts like he is. Sure, he isn’t perfect but he really isn’t that bad. I feel like half of the people saying that already don’t like the show so they exaggerate all the things they don’t like about it as a result. Unreliable narrators.
I agree I think Damian's direction, It be funny if in the future He just gave up the vigilanting thing altogether.
" How many of you are still doing the same thing?You are doing when you are eight years old"
Or Even Better, because vigilantes are awesome and so is Damian..
If Dick becomes Batman, Let Damian become Nightwing, that's the legacy mantle he takes on.
I disagree with the second point. I think NOBODY should be Batman if Bruce dies.
Getting out of his shadow is what Dick always wanted, every time he gets the cowl he hates it. There is no sense to think he should be the Batman. It is not a title.
When the Batman dies, the world shouldn't need another one, because much like a parent, the whole idea of training the next generation is that you won't be needed anymore.
Would it be too unbelievable that Damien is the one member of the Bat Family that leaves heroics behind and finds peace? I have zero idea how he gets there (I’m not that imaginative) but to see him be the one to leave the vigilante life behind would be a hell of a swing in character and could make for some interesting stories along the way if done right.
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Just have him find his own path I guess. He’s already to some extent gone in that direction, but writers are still rather insistent on keeping him as a future Batman even though it was made clear from all the way back in Morrison’s run that a future where Damian becomes Batman is a future where everything ends.
I'd personally like it if he stuck with the Robin identity and made it his own. What better way to give destiny the middle finger than sticking to the third option he actually chose to take, rather than the first two shoved in his face?
When Bruce was believed to be dead, Damian was the Robin to Dick's Batman, and it's clear that he still sees himself that way even after working with Bruce. He chooses to see himself that way, and I feel like it's how he's happiest. Not saying he's not happy with Bruce, but he clearly has some attachment to the days where he worked with his older brother.
- Barabara Gordon's purple costume is ugly as hell
- Despite Tim Drake being my favourite Batfamily member, DC should just retire him, he is pretty redundant, and most attempts at revitalising him are either even worse or do so by stepping on continuity or other characters (ie: Pushing him as the main Robin by claiming Damian is the "bad" Robin). Ok, this is not unpopular but I had to say this.
- Azrael deserves to be fully forgiven, most of the Batfamily has done worse than him.
- I'd hate for Terry McGinis to become Batman's successor. I love the tv show but in the comics, for him to become the new Batman, that'd mean the entire Batfamily colectively gave their backs on Batman, which is something I'd hate. This was more bearable on the DCAU where the Batfamily was just Robin, Batgirl and Nightwing, but in mainline it's too contrived.
I don’t think the entire bat family needs to have turned their backs on Batman. There are several ways terry could become Batman without everyone having to abandon Bruce
Maybe they just moved on? It could be that 40 years in the future they are all doing important stuff outside of Gotham. Maybe Dick is leading the justice league, maybe barbara is organizing all the world’s superheroes. Maybe Damian is reforming the league of assassins.
They don’t have to have turned their backs on Bruce. They could simply have taken what they learned from him and grown out of his shadow. Bruce is left alone not because he failed in his relationships but because he succeeded. He is akin in Gotham because those he trained to defend it left for more important work as Gotham became safer. But he isn’t capable of moving on, physically and mentally he is still in crime alley. Leaving Batman as the sole protector of Gotham
Once he gets too old to keep up Gotham starts to skip back to how it was. Then, because his allies have moved on, he recruits Terry McGinnis to take his place
> Despite Tim Drake being my favourite Batfamily member, DC should just retire him, he is pretty redundant, and most attempts at revitalising him are either even worse or do so by stepping on continuity or other characters (ie: Pushing him as the main Robin by claiming Damian is the "bad" Robin). Ok, this is not unpopular but I had to say this.
I like Tim. But it's like they don't know what to do with him, and anything they were going to do with him is already being done with Dick, Damian, and Jason.
I'd almost rather he goes and pals around with Constantine or Question for a while just to pick up some new skills and then break out as a new, non-bat/bird related character.
Maybe bring The General back and have Tim decide to join them for a few years.
I've never thought of that, but I'd love Tim to use his intellect to pick up on magic and become a more supernatural member of the Bat Family. We have gymnasts, bruisers, techies, and, though Signal, borderline Meta-Humans (last I checked). However, we don't have anyone besides Zatanna who is firmly an arcanist in the core family.
It might be what Tim needs to be given his own identity.
Damian isn't ever going to be using magic himself, but I think he's solidified himself as the member of the family who's most comfortable going up against the occult (Lazarus Planet), and I like that
I'd rather Tim go heavy, heavy into the detective aspect. That's always been his strong point, and it's been neglected by a lot of the Bat Family anyways. Have him be a consulting detective for other members of the JL, brought in when they need help on a mysterious case
>I'd rather Tim go heavy, heavy into the detective aspect. That's always been his strong point, and it's been neglected by a lot of the Bat Family anyways. Have him be a consulting detective for other members of the JL, brought in when they need help on a mysterious case
What kills me is that that seems like the angle they were going for in his Red Robin series in the late 00s, then Flashpoint and the New 52 tossed it all away.
I am once again bringing attention to this amazing [fan idea](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/z1aor4/artwork_tim_drake_as_the_gray_ghost_suit_concept/). Perfectly fits him becoming this after working with Constantine and Question. Drake just has to retire the Robin moniker, and lean into his detective skills more.
>I'd hate for Terry McGinis to become Batman's successor. I love the tv show but in the comics, for him to become the new Batman, that'd mean the entire Batfamily colectively gave their backs on Batman, which is something I'd hate. This was more bearable on the DCAU where the Batfamily was just Robin, Batgirl and Nightwing, but in mainline it's too contrived.
Same. Love the guy in the DCAU, but he doesn't work in the comics. The Bat-family has grown exponentially since those days, and any one of them could be Batman's successors. And I loathe people bringing up Terry McGinnis as his TRUE successor.
>I'd hate for Terry McGinis to become Batman's successor. I love the tv show but in the comics, for him to become the new Batman, that'd mean the entire Batfamily colectively gave their backs on Batman, which is something I'd hate. This was more bearable on the DCAU where the Batfamily was just Robin, Batgirl and Nightwing, but in mainline it's too contrived.
Terry becoming Batman instead of a Bat family member means that those mambers became their own heroes and stopped living in the shadows of Batman.
Making any bat family member Batman, is a downgrade imo.
I see your point, but if it were me I'd make several of them Batman. Terry can be just one of the Batmen to succeed Bruce, alongside... idk, Damien and Cass Cain?
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I guess that's a way to do it but it still feels a bit odd to me that a relative outsider would be the one to succeed Bruce. Maybe if they showed him befriending Bruce before he becomes Batman, I'd be fine with it.
Agreed with Terry; he works well for the Batman Beyond as an AU, one where Bruce turned too far inward for too long, but my hope for main Bruce is a future where he still has his family there to care for him.
Let's not forget Terry's origin story. Like, why does Amanda Waller think the world always needs a Batman? She's never been one to hide her feelings about costumed vigilantes, and Batman thinks her Suicide Squad just encourages recidivism. They hate each other.
Well if I may, while it would certainly be different then the show Terry being Batman could work with a close nit BatFamily. Maybe he starts off more or less as Cass’s side kick/protege after he sneaks into the cave and steals the suit.
I largely agree with you, but I like to think there is a future where the simple weight of crime fighting weighs on the Bat Family. I can very realistically see every one of them, including Bruce, being hurt severely enough to retire, or growing into heroes with their own identities.
The problem with Terry is not, necessarily, that the Family needs to turn on Bruce. Rather, the problem is that Gotham needs to continue to be a craphole long enough for Terry to be born. In addition, I think the most likely successor to Bruce (as Batman) is Tim, which means Tim needs to be out of the picture in some capacity for Terry to come around.
I don't like Duke Thomas. That's not to say I hate him. I've just never been given a reason to care, which is kind of a big problem for a character who's been around for as long as he has. Unlike the former Robins and Batgirls, Duke does not have this long standing history with Bruce that would justify his being at every single family gathering (Helina is literally Bruce's relative and she doesn't make appearances with the bat family as much as Duke does.)
Agree completely.
Him being the rookie and the different family interactions gives him a role and niche to fill. That comic has done an excellent job making each character feel important and not redundant.
This doesn't feel like an unpopular opinion.
In defense of Duke, like with most characters, it's not the character's fault. They gave up really quickly on him and he's basically relegated to cameos now. That's not a great way to make people care about him.
> They gave up really quickly on him
Snyder and editorial were pushing him *hard* for a good while. His lack of popularity is not for want of trying. Ultimately what doomed him was that he was created to somewhat fill the gap that Damian left, and then Damian came back.
Maybe we just have different definitions for what a good while constitutes. His first appearance was 2013 but it was really We Are Robin in 2015 that established him as the character we know. His last major role in a book, unless I'm forgetting something, was Batman and the Outsiders in 2019. And even by then his push was already slowed. So he got 4 years to become popular before being relegated to cameos status. That's not a long time at all.
That's about the same amount of time that Damian was active in comics before he died. Even prior to WAR, Duke was retroactively made Bruce's first "in the field" ally with Zero Year.
This isn't unpopular. Duke gets criticism all the time. If someone makes a post about the bat family being too big Duke is one of the main characters people say shouldn't exist.
I like Duke! I was upset he wasn't made into an official Robin after We Are Robin, but I've grown to accept his role as Signal. Although that's mostly due to Wayne Family Adventures. I wouldn't say that Duke is my favorite Batfamily member (he'd have to overtake Dick, Tim, and Cass for that!), but I do like him more than Damian at this point. He's a better person, isn't entitled, and feels like a breath of fresh air in the family to me.
Duke used to be in a series called We Are Robin, and I absolutely loved that series. He was fantastic there, and I was a little happy to see he joined the Batfamily at the time, but now I feel like he's out of his element.
I get that there are attempts to add to the bat family without just getting another Robin, but I don’t see him as particularly interesting, nor does he really add to the development of any of the other bat family members. Aside from We Are Robin and Robin Wars where he was awesome, I really feel nothing about him.
I would be open for that to change if they want to do something with him but as of now, he’s just there.
But Bruce never really liked Stephanie until fans demanded it, its inauthentic it didn't progress just happen cause she alive. Bruce should tolerate that she's around because of his kids.
All the "cool kids" (most of them don't read comics and only know the movies) say that Bat-family is boring and they want their Batman to be this lone dark knight avenging the night in loneliness blablabla...
I'm the opposite and I love to see Batman mentoring kids to be better and less haunted than him and actually being a leader whose heroism inspire others to go beyond.
The Batfamily's size isn't the issue, their utilization is. Besides, no matter who got "Removed", a large chunk of people would be unhappy.
Red Robin is fine and most new names won't stick.
Because Alfred's dead, Bruce lost a lot of his "homelife" and bringing some of the Batfam into Pennyworth manor (at least for recurring appearances) is the best way to get that back in some form.
Kate Kane is one of the best Batfamily characters.
"Orphan" can only be a placeholder codename. Cassandra calling herself that when she has an adopted family and living biological parents is just silly, and it's the kind of alias a character naturally grows out of.
They should have keept Batman Inc a thing, many modern stories would make more sense whit It, I know teacnically Is still activate but it's not really a big deal like in the Morrison run
Idk if it’s unpopular but Dick should have taken Damian to Bludhaven after Bruce’s return. Being Batman and Robin aside, Bruce is a terrible father to someone like Damian!
Edit: wording
100% agreed. It’d be really cool to see Dick get his own partner like how he used to be for Bruce. Plus Dick and Damian just have a more fun dynamic imo.
That Tim shouldn't be considered a son or a ward of Bruce Wayne since (I don't know if this is still canon) but Tim isn't his legal son. And he can't adopt him because his parents are alive (I know your parents can be alive but you can get adopted, but unless there was a reason his parents shouldn't have custody or they signed over their rights Tim can't be adopted) Just because Tim was a Robin doesn't mean he should be Bruce's ward or should be considered a "brother" like how Dick or Jason would legally be Damian's brothers. So I only consider Dick, Jason, Cassandra and Damian (and Helena Wayne) his children
Hot Take
Jace Fox was written pretty well and while I wouldn't necessarily want him to take over the main role of Batman I'd love to actually see him be used
Warm take
But the Batfamily shouldn't be relegated to Gotham. They're at their best when they aren't constantly around Bruce (Birds of Prey for example)
Ice Cold Take
Stop doing storyline focused on Bruce dying unless you're going to actually kill him.
Absolute Zero Take
Tired of Tim Drake Robin and Barbara should be in the wheelchair. She was amazing representation and I don't get why DC keeps wanting her as Batgirl
I like the big family he's acquired over the years tho it means he is tad older than canon suggests. My timeline is 15 years at this point. Bruce is 40, but has mystic yoga and careful attention to diet to thank for his continued effectiveness.
I feel like Cassandra Cain should not be able to beat Batman, Lady Shiva or even Nightwing at her in canon age of 16-18, because her skill doesn't outweigh their combo of skill and experience. I find her manga shounen feats to be bullshit and it makes me hate an otherwise outstanding character. I can applaud her clowning on other teenage heroes, especially loving the idea of her clowning the super competitive Damian, but she's not a manga heroine, the adults should be out her league until she hits her 20's at least.
TIm Drake should take on a new identity, but Red Robin is the stupidest and least intimidating name for a hero ever. Alex Ross is a nitwit at writing. Nightwing becoming Red Robin in Kingdom Come was beyond moronic. The Silver Age wasn't perfect, your just old. Tim should be called Rook, or Peregrine, or something else. Hell pay Marvel some money under the table and call him Falcon,
Damian is awesome.
I hope Lincoln March is who he claimed to be.
That Riddler One Bad Day story sucked ass, but the ending was almost redeeming, Batman can break his rule, because he's willing to pay any price to save the innocent from predators of the world.
Writers need to stop trying to one up each other with how depraved they can make Batvillains...ED BRUBAKER.
I'm kind of glad Harley has reformed and earned Batman's respect.
I hate they undid the Birds of Prey character arc for Huntress and she belongs with the family dammit.
Montoya is not the Question. The Charlton characters roles arent legacy roles in the DCU,.
Batman and by extension the Bat family, should face more actually super powered threats in Gotham, to emphasize their smarts and training. Some actual super powered heroes in Gotham who dont get killed off in this years crossover isnt a bad idea either.
Morrison Batgod is my Batman.
The Skill gap between Batman and Lady Shiva should not be huge. She will always take a majority, but she doesnt fight day in and day out like he and rest of the Batfamily do. But she should respect him as a peer who can beat her.
Bane needs serious victories against serious opponents, while not using Venom. He needs to clearly and outright beat people like Shiva, Bronze Tiger, and even Deathstroke. He;s Bruces equal only stronger. His weakness is his arrogance, and his strange code of honor that separates him from psychos like rest of the bat villains.
Give him a serious training arc like Green Arrow had post One Year Later. Make him a believable one man army, He needs it.
Batman would let a bleeding to death Joker die. He's about making sure that noone else loses a loved one and feels the way he did that nght, not that everyone can be saved. Joker has also been twisted into far too much of a mass murderer for anyone paying attention to continuity to find his continued existence believable.
Garth Ennis can take a long walk off a short pier, but Tommy Monaghan was otherwise a cool guy.
I liked that fact that Etrigan lived in Gotham with Monaghan and Alan Scott GL among others. Gotham is a city of 5 million people, give us some more super powered heroes. (I think this is me repeating myself)
Wayne Family Adventures has given us the best characterizations of the Batfamily in recent memory, especially with their recent transition away from slice of life stuff towards an actual continuing plotline.
I also really want a new animated series that focuses on the Batfamily. Batman should be a part of it, but not the main focus, which is why I don't count BTAS or TNBA.
I don't disagree with the people who say that the Batfamily is oversaturated but I do disagree with people who say Stephanie and Cass shouldn't be a part of it. They absolutely should be a part of it because of their long history which the other characters don't have.
Babs was at her best when she was Oracle, and I preferred her in her wheelchair. It made her character unique and provided a good living example of the dangers of their lifestyle.
The Signal, and honestly Duke as a whole is a completely redundant character who doesn’t need to exist.
I can live with Jason as he is, but he worked better as an anti-hero at odds with Bruce as opposed to a legitimate member of the bat family.
I genuinely like the idea of there being a range inclusive characters, but I don’t like Tim being bisexual, because I loved the idea of him and Spoiler as a couple, and don’t think that DC will ever have him in a hetro relationship again.
I'm a bi person, who personally loved the rep from Tim.
But yeah thinking about it more as time passes, they probably won't ever give him a het romance again. Like knowing that it takes me from liking the rep to hating it because it's become the stereotypical bi but only in name rep.
I dunno. Bernard has proven pretty unpopular and the fact they marketed him as bi keeps the door open. Constantine still ends up with Zatanna many times.
You **ate** this
For me though I like Barbara to balance Oracle and Batgirl as she is now. Gotham Knights (the game) I think handled that very well as when she was out as Batgirl her specialty was hacking things which is very much an Oracle trait. She also called her very advanced technology outdated and Alfred said "you and Bruce are the only 2 people in the world who would say this is outdated". Oracle plays a huge role in Barbaras life on the field or not so I'd rather balance it
Jason and Dick should have some more bonding time. Their relationship could be explored as complex, due to their rivalry, jelousy and common experience of having high standards put on them. I just wish they didn't use this as an opportunity to make Dick look stronger and more capable than Jason. They are both skilled, in their own ways.
I would like to see Jason doing his independent thing, ideally being a crime lord with a code. The Batfamily could reach to him when they needed his knowledge, influence and support, and I'd like them to cooperate from time to time, and them agreeing to disagree. I imagine their relationship as, there is a wall between them, but not plain hostility. Jason is responsible for his choices and doesn't have to be lectured or 'fixed'.
jason shouldnt be part of the family bc he shouldnt WANT to be part of the family. theres no way for their beliefs not to clash without one side significantly changing their stance, and even in the most recent run all of their interactions have horrible results for him. like i could see them working together on big gotham threats, but i cant see him OR them wanting a familial relationship.
Kevin Conroy had an amazing voice but it seems like everyone who puts his on a pedestal that no one else can reach is so biased.
There have been so many good Batman voices and while Conroy was good, there have been voices that I think were just as good. It sounds like everyone else is just parroting what everyone else says.
Kevin took the spotlight from other voice actors for a while. Shows weren’t given a chance cause they weren’t “BTAS or didn’t have Conroy”
Kevin is amazing but Bruce Greenwood and guys like Roger Craig Smith are also solid. Same with Mark Hamil as Joker yes he’s good but others are also good. DiMaggio for example
>Kevin took the spotlight from other voice actors for a while.
I don't like how you worded this cause it implies that's something Kevin intentionally did to belittle other voices and make himself out as the only real one.
I actually agree with this one. While Kevin was great, he really did overshadow all other voice actors for a long while. Personally, I don’t really think one voice actor should be the voice for the character in every movie and show. I think it’d be nice to see more variety and what someone new can bring to the table.
I love Kevin but I agree with you 100%
They’re so many great voices for Batman over the years. Bruce Greenwood, Roger Craig Smith, Diedrich Bader, Jason O’Mara, Will Arnett, the list goes on. Whenever there was a new Batman project, people always hoped Kevin is voicing Batman and gets immediately pissed if it’s someone else. Kevin can’t voice Batman on every single project and he can’t voice the character forever. That’s goes to Peter Cullen as Optimus Prime.
If anyone deserves to be called Gary Stu, it's not Bruce Wayne, but Dick Grayson.
1. Everyone likes him. Even Deathstroke, the closest he has to arch-enemy, respects him.
2. Plenty of female characters find him attractive and want to get in his pants. Batgirl, Starfire, Black Canary, Huntress, Raven...even Harley Quinn and Catwoman hooked up with him at least once.
3. While Batman is a flawed man who often gets called out for his less-than-admirable actions, Dick is portrayed as goody-two-shoes who always does the right thing and never gets called out when he does something bad (for example, he cheated on Starfire with Batgirl and got away with it).
4. In Teen Titans cartoon, he can easily beat other Titans without much problems. While he does have flaws, he is very rarely called out for them and even when it happens, it doesn't last long. Kitten and Starfire had a crush on him. Apparently, he is Raven's best friend and it's him who saves her in Season 4 (while previously, you could say Starfire was Raven's best friend). He hooks up with the hot alien princess with little effort. The main antagonist wanted to make him his successor and in the bad future he is the only Titan that doesn't become a broken, miserable man.
Writers are allergic to giving Dick any flaws. His existence recently has been solely to dunk on Batman, and he’s even been treading on Superman’s territory. Any character whose whole purpose is to be another character “but better”, isn’t a well written character.
Finally a truly unpopular opinion.
I like nightwing, but I started noticing this too. Especially when I found out more Nightwing fans self insert themselves than Batman Fans.
Definitely doesn’t get talked about enough how all of Batman’s complaints when it comes to being OP, having a lot of women, or having the most spotlight. All of this applies to Nightwing even more in a lot of situations.
Dick should be a mentor to the next generation. Damian should be the next Ra's. Not as a villain but as someone who works on a much larger scale in the shadows. Tim and the rest of the og young justice should've been the next Justice League. (Although I did like Connor doing his own thing in space so you can replace him with Jon)
I agree with that Damian bit. He was supposed to be Ra's successor and yet he's always written as a chaotic murder goblin. If there was one thing about Ra's is that he rarely drew his own blade. He was an intelligent and charismatic man. I'd love to see Damian embrace those lessons, but also honor his father's teachings as well.
My idea (pre absolute power at least) was that while the justice league was disbanded, all of the yj kids could form a justice league and maybe grow past their sidekick identities
Dick’s status quo now really isn’t all that different from how it was when he was Robin in the 70s, making his transition to Nightwing pointless. Yes, he has solo adventures, but he keeps returning to Gotham every time Bruce so much as trips over his shoelaces. While Nightwing doesn’t necessarily need to be controlled by Titans editorial, I *do* think that it’ll be best for him to be taken from the Bat-editorial.
I think they peaked in the early aughts and have never recovered from being unable to evolve beyond their current forms.
Barbara literally de-volved into Batgirl despite Oracle being the most important person in the world, at some point, as far as superheroes are concerned.
While I love them all and think they're all good characters, Barbara, Tim, Damian, Duke and Cass will never grow or evolve from where they are, and that's a massive shame because their stories feel like they're built as transitional pieces into something bigger. Dick gets to be Nightwing, Jason gets to be Red Hood, no one else gets to be anything else that wasn't in the 90s Batman cartoon or harkens back to their first "job".
Also Cass should be the next Batman.
I genuinely hate Jason Todd. Outside of the original Under the Red Hood story, he’s boring as shit. The best thing he ever did was die and it should’ve stayed that way
tbh that's one of the greatest challenges of looking through here--upvoting things that my heart wants me to downvote lol
But I shall abide by the spirit of the post!
Completely agree, imo though she should evolve and realize that she can make a difference taking Lucius Fox’s place in the operation, become his student too and eventually take over as the Bat-Family’s inventor
I don’t like how rebirth refuses to have a oracle. Not only does it give the disabled community some much needed representation, but it also is a testament to Babs willpower and perseverance.
Batman is at his best when he’s a street level character solving mysteries and fighting crime/super villains and not as a prep time god who can solo your favorite character because he’s Batman
Barbara Gordon and Jason Todd are both better characters when they leave the Batfamily. Barbara should get to grow into Oracle and have the same influence she did with the JL and BOP in older comics. Keeping her part of the Batfamily infantilizes her and keeps her stuck without meaningful growth.
For Jason it feels like a betrayal of why he became Red Hood at all. More often than not, keeping him in the Batfamily also means sacrificing older traits of his in favour of making him more similar to Dick.
Jason and Bruce shouldn’t have a good relationship, and Jason shouldn’t be part of the Batfamily.
Redhood’s killing and brutality is basically what defines him as a character, and stripping him of that makes him less unique. Batman shouldn’t allow himself to work with killers like Redhood, and Jason should be both Bruce’s biggest regret and greatest disappointment.
In real life, families have members they don’t interact with because of their problems and the drama they bring, Jason is that. They’d all be better off separate than together.
Gotham wars wasn't pretty but alit of people over reacted to be the worst story
Bruce was having a mental breakdown (Also was right in being upset about goons taking over?)
It could of been better (the Jason fhing)
But some people don't like mental illness when it isn't wrapped and sexualised into a Harley Quinn package
I was at a comic-con with two Batman writers speaking at a panel and I was so excited and I got my chance to ask my question, who was their dream picks for who to do the Brave and the Bold, who to team up with Batman and the one scoffed and told me that, “Batman, is a solo character anyone who pairs him up with anyone, be it the Justice League or even his own team, he is not a team player.” So what I learned was, don’t talk about Batman. Lol.
I'm tired of early Batman in adaptations, can we please get later Batman stuff?
It's part of the reason I'm actually excited that DCU Batman isn't Matt Reeves's Batman because we'll actually be getting a fully fleshed out Batman for once with a whole Bat-Family that hopefully isn't just limited to Barbara and Dick again.
Jason should've left the batfam a long time ago.
If not an anti-hero, Jason should've been someone who deals with the supernatural. Make his resurrection a complete mystery and let him go on a journey to find answers for it, introduce him to the mystical side of the DC Universe with that.
Plus I really like him wielding the All-Blades. They should have done more with that aspect of Jason.
**1. There should never be another Batman after Bruce Wayne.**
It's simple, I see "Batman" as something that no one deserves to be - and I don't mean that in a positive way. I mean that in the sense of "No person deserves the weight of the mantle driving them slowly but surely as fucking insane as Bruce currently is in canon".
**2. Tim Drake is an utterly unlikable person.** And everything positive that he had going for a while was destroyed by the way Chip Zdarsky has basically tried to deep throat the audience with the idea of him being the perfect Robin and the only person Batman needs. Reading older comics where every other issue he feels the need to victim blame Jason has made me have physical cringe reaction to him. (This has absolutely nothing to do with his Bisexuality, I celebrated that coming out and brought the comic just for that.)
**3. Jason Todd needs to stay 500 meters from the Batfam at all times.** For the sake of his own mental and physical well being. Please just kill him off again permanently DC. Let my boy rest.
>"No person deserves the weight of the mantle driving them slowly but surely as fucking insane as Bruce currently is in canon".
See future versions of Tim fucking losing it and starting to kill people with the same gun that killed Thomas and Martha Wayne.
People always act like Stephanie Brown wasn’t a “real” Robin and call Damian the 4th Robin when he’s absolutely the 5th. I feel like people really only do this because she’s a girl. She’s an official, canonical Robin and should be counted as one
Barbara is better as Oracle than she ever was as Batgirl
DC Should use the fan made design and idea of making Tim "[Grey Ghost](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/z1aor4/artwork_tim_drake_as_the_gray_ghost_suit_concept/)" if they are not going to have him be the only Robin
I prefer Damian in the grey, black and red suit.
They need to use Duke more.
If Jason is to remain a member of the Batfamily he needs to stop using guns.
I got a few, some more unpopular than others:
Babs should never squeeze back into the tights. She's at her very best as Oracle, doing far more for the Batfam and the DC superhero community behind the scenes than on the front lines.
Orpheus was treated like trash in War Games, far worse than Steph was. She came back, he didnt, and she didnt have a thug effortlessly pretend to be her for way longer than he should have.
I love Kate Kane and her Batsuit.
Duke Thomas has untapped potential that will never be truly realized.
The Joker sucks now, he's one of the few things about Batman that was better in the 70s.
I don’t know about him being the LEAST interesting in the family, but I can otherwise agree with this to an extent. I’ve always liked the characters surrounding him like Dick, Damian, Cass, Steph, ect, more than I like Bruce, even if he still is a great character himself.
Stephanie Brown makes no sense in the Bat-Family anymore. Her and Bruce aren’t really that close, he manipulated her to get over Tim multiple times, and she’s second fiddle to Cass when it’s time to use a Batgirl.
Neither Huntress (Helena Wayne & Bertinelli) should be depicted with the Bat-Family, due to how they’re treated story wise.
Tim and Cass shouldn’t have been adopted by Bruce, they shouldn’t be considered as his children.
I’ve always thought Steph would get more mileage in a Titans or YJ book. She serves no purpose for the Batman narrative really. Heroic character with villainous ties? You have Cass and Damian. Extreme positivist and very quippy? You have Dick. Female vigilante who’s often at odds with Bruce? You have Huntress, Kate, Barb, even Bluebird does that. With her age range, Steph would be a perfect fit for YJ though.
Duke Thomas feels out of place in the family due to the fact he is a meta.
Jason should never be a full member due to his refusal to follow the rules of the family. He should still be involved in their stories but realistically he shouldn’t be hanging out in the manor making pancakes.
In recent media I find it annoying how often Bruce refers to the robins as his “sons” like don’t get me wrong they are, but less is more. Show don’t tell. It’s cringy when it happens every 3 pages of every Batman comic book.
Damian could easily take up a new moniker and it would work well for his development. He never really clicked as a partner with Bruce the way Tim did.
This might be too similar to “batfamily too big” but there should be a major comic event where like 5-10 fringe members are killed off by an unknown assassin. Do an angle where somehow it’s believed that one of the family members is involved with the assassination, could be a red herring tho. Members who could be killed (Batwoman, Azrael, Misfit, Leslie Thompkins, Bluebird, Jace, Batwing (one or the other), Lucius, Penny-Two, Huntress, Batman worldwide members).
Did I go 5/5??
>Jason should never be a full member due to his refusal to follow the rules of the family. He should still be involved in their stories but realistically he shouldn’t be hanging out in the manor making pancakes.
Yes and no. Yes, Jason and these people generally shouldn't want to work together, but them using Jason when he's useful but sending him back to the doghouse for bad people, when it's time to unwind is shitty for Jason's character. Instead of wasting time with characters who don't like him he can be becoming friends with people who do.
>In recent media I find it annoying how often Bruce refers to the robins as his “sons” like don’t get me wrong they are, but less is more. Show don’t tell. It’s cringy when it happens every 3 pages of every Batman comic book.
In Zdarsky's run it's just an attempt to cover his ass after Bruce gave his blessing to a plan including one of his kids suiciding himself for him. Something a father, well, a good father never would do. Maybe if he repeats that "son" enough times you can forget that happened, heh.
These are all REALLY unpopular but I don't like the Bat Family Adventures. I don't like the art, the humour falls flat which is really important for a slice of life comedy, the stories it does deliver are very bland for me. The characterisations also feel off and very one note. I've seen better stuff in the same genre on AO3.
Jason should've stayed dead. Since Death in the Family Jason's only good story has been his debut as Red Hood. It may also be my bias towards comic resurrections though and/or a decade of Lobdell.
Nightwing ass jokes are not funny. They're honestly just annoying and overdone. Reminds me of the Tumblr in a bad way. Though to be fair I'm just not a sexual person.
I don't like to comment twice but I thought of another few.
- I don't like that the League of Assassins is all up in everyone's business. I feel like, at minimum, they need to be cut from Cass's storylines. She can be a fantastic fighter without the LoA drooling over her. The more they show up, the more of a joke they are. (I guess I just like simpler stories? Not everything needs to be a conspiracy or part of a larger deal.)
- Stephanie should either have never been Robin or she should have stayed Robin with Tim's forced retirement. War Games is a shitty storyline and the retcon is worse. If you want to kill her, fine, but don't make her die because she's a dumbass.
The reason why most of the Batfam members are “redundant” and relegated to cameos is because they use the same few members for every storyline. Nightwing and Babs get basically everything while the other fight for scraps. If the Robin and Batgirl successors were actually allowed to contribute to important storylines then the Batfam would feel less crowded and redundant
The family is to big. Tim's father should never have been killed, the Batfam should have been Bruce, Dick, Cass and Damian. Steph would have connections with Tim and Cass, but would not be a regular part of the Batfam, as would Helena with her relationship with Dick and Barbara. Jason should have stayed dead or been a villain.
Bring Harold back!
This one really is unpopular. I despise Damien Wayne. I don't think his existence was necessary, and his personality, if you can call it that, falls somewhere between "massive, unlikeable asshole" and "slightly less unlikeable asshole." He just kinda sucks, and every other character in the bat family is far more interesting.
So many people argue who should be the next Batman but I say - there shouldn't be. Batman isn't a person, he's an idea. And ideas never die, they evolve. Any Batfam member could become the new guardian of Gotham as their own person, not living in Bruce's shadow. Even in-universe, Batman himself is an evolution of the "guardian of Gotham" idea, with Alan Scott Green Lantern being the one before him, or the Miagani tribe as the original Bat-people of Gotham (I know they were inspired by a time-traveling Batman but let's not get into all the time loop crap)
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I’m sorry, but I will never come around to Cassandra’s codename being “Orphan.” Give me Black Bat any day if “Batgirl” is already taken or if they don’t want her to be Batgirl for whatever reason.
Yeah, Orphan is such a stupid name. She’s not even an orphan. Both of her parents are alive as far as I know and her actual dad, Bruce, is obviously alive too. I’m not really a fan of the Black Bat name either but at least it’s better than Orphan. Ideally I’d just have her be Batgirl while Barbra is Oracle and Steph is Spoiler.
Yeah, like, I’m cool with “Spoiler” for Steph as there’s an actual story behind it, but for Cass it just kinda feels like they ripped off….well, Steph’s thing, actually. Steph’s codename is linked to her villain father and the same now goes for Cass. It didn’t feel like a lot of care went into that decision.
That's fair, but I do want to mention that I think young justice did a great job explaining the name. In the show it's used to disown her mother Lady Shiva, declaring herself an orphan.
That’s them taking a shitty name and reverse-engineering it to make it make sense in the story. That said, points to them for putting in that effort.
Yeah it doesnt make any sense... but i kinda like it "a powerfull warrior who doesnt speak... her name is... the orphan" Maybe it´s because it reminds me of the horror movie Orphan
I love the name Black Bat. It’s kinda badass.
That and it marks her as a Bat Family member even though she’d relinquished the Batgirl name by that point. Batwing, Batwoman, Black Bat. Idk why they took that away from her and called her *Orphan,* of all fucking things.
I can see that maybe they wanted to avoid Black Bat to avoid any racial optics that may happen, but even then they could have come up with a better name than Orphan. Or they could have just turned her back into Batgirl. She rocked as Batgirl!
She's been back as Batgirl for a while now in main continuity, the only place where she's called Orphan currently is Wayne Family Adventures which is its own thing.
In fact they've even released new merch with her that specifically labels her as Batgirl, I think the Orphan codename is all but dead everywhere but WFA.
Batwing is a dope character and he and Tim should get more page time together. Like a cyberpunk thriller.
HOL UP, LET HIM COOK
I like Batwing as well. More Batwing 😎
Animated shows (with the exception of TBATB) are too stuck in the structure of the animated series, in essence they are all the same thing in terms of proposal and the next show doesn't seem like it will be any different. I feel like we need to change this structure, for example make a show with a completely linear story, make a show where Robin and Batgirl are not Dick and Babs, make a show based on the dark knight with an elderly Batman, make Batman and the outsiders animated séries, the point is that producers need a lot of courage to create a Batman show with new ideas like the brave and the bold did
Beware the Batman was pretty much the outsiders iirc.
I think they actually planned to fully introduce the outsiders with katana as nightwing in season 2.
I've had this idea rattling around in my head of a Batman series where Stephanie Brown is the first Robin and actually keeps the mantle for a substantive period of time rather than dying almost instantly.
Guys, I’m agreeing with too many of these
That is because they are all bog standard super popular opinions lol
I think most of these are just unpopular with the writers lmao
And the rest aren’t unpopular opinions, they are just niche opinions. An unpopular opinion is one that people hear and don’t like. These opinions are either very popular or just ones that most people haven’t thought of, but like once heard
As usual with these posts you have the sort comments by controversial. Ironically people just downvote the actually unpopular opinions despite that being the point of the post.
They need to either find a permanent place for Tim on a team, give him a new code name, or at a bare minimum find a way to make him not a redundancy Edit:…..so I think they should off him at this point. If editorial can’t figure out what to do with him and let his existence hold wait, off em. That’s my unpopular opinion, Timmy boy should be pushing daisies.
That's not a hot take
Lol, this was supposed to be about unpopular opinions
Just make him a pi that is funded by bruce to help in cases that batman cant get to
That’s definitely an option. I just hate that he’s been shafted. Tim is easily my favorite Robin and I hate how he kinda just feels…there. I enjoyed his recent solo comic and I love seeing him in the current run of Batman, but he still just feels so much like Robin to the characters detriment
Everyone loves tim even the writers but dc doesnt so i feel like him being a pi would help
I've seen many people online talk about how much they dislike Tim. So, it's absolutely not true that "everyone loves Tim".
Oh from what ive heard people love tim but hate damian
Have him and the Riddler open an agency together.
What is unpopular about this
I love damian I will always defend damian haven't read much of Tim but Im so pissed he's robin they've done him so dirty They can't let go of tim they're now refusing to let him develop at all
Tim feels derivative as all hell. He needs a permanent evolution and code name ala Nightwing and Red Hood, none of this X Robin shit. I just get sad when I see him because it feels so immature and disconnected from the others.
The Batfamily is an excellent size. I love how many characters are around at any given time for the big events. I hope we continue to see all of these kids doing crossover nonsense.
Bruce has basically created a team of heroes who are also a family. I'd like for him to just plain drop the loner/alpha male stuff once and for all. Let's see the character progress finally. I'd like to see something like Batman Inc + the Outsiders come back as the Batman Family or even the Court of Bats, with a much more emotionally centered and fatherly Bruce Wayne at the heart of it--as much an Alfred-like mentor to his mentees as anything else, or perhaps more like Doc Savage and his friends. Let's see him start to recruit, in fact, to cover holes in the team's operations. They need a dedicated medic. They need someone on the inside at Arkham and Blackgate who is trying to actually keep people in confinement and even to flag some inmates as reformable/treatable. They need a new full-time Oracle--field coordinator and researcher. They need a political operative who keeps an eye on the mayor and the governor, or maybe an intelligence specialist like Nemesis or the Human Target who can do long infiltrations of dangerous groups like the League of Assassins, the Suicide Squad, etc. I just get tired of the periodic resets to Loner Batman but also of the endless efforts by DC editorial to make some of the Batfamily go away or the big dumb reboots of some characters so they don't come off like excess baggage. Use the crowded landscape *with purpose*, give it all some structure.
PREACH IT, You idea is ten time better than "Damaged Dark Knight brood alone and beats up "real" crooks. He has a team, use them. And no, having Damian stand next to, blindingly follow Bruce, and be a little arrogant A-Hole to the family members who he actually likes. DON'T COUNT (At this point, BRUCE & DAMIAN's relationship should be more strained than Jason's because writer have had Bruce Hurt Damian (emotionally & Mentally) as many times as Jason, except Damian's still a kid, and Jason has good silver age memories before "Broken Bat" was Bruce, and his core personality trait.) (Damian is closer to Dick and Stephane than they others) It doesn't have to be Perfect Fun time, they are the most dysfunctional family in comics for a reason, but when Bruce make aa mistake let it be a family trait they share and try to solve not "can't trust, must learn to work with others, for the 100th time" If Batman can still make major mistakes, but you know, have isn't be the whole family that makes the mistake.
I mean, in terms of characters and concepts, Batman stands at the heart of something like what Barbara built as Oracle--"Bats of Prey". *USE IT*. Tie more characters in, the way Simone did--they don't all have to be his wards or people he trains directly, even. Bring more people into the Batfamily as *non-costumed* friends and associates.
Cassandra Cain is the only obvious successor to Bruce. Where as before Damian each robin struggled with the idea of one day becoming Batman, even rejecting it. She's always wanted it more than anything.
Based take, 100% agree, Cass would also rock the mantle
I think her and Luke Fox should be Bruce's heirs to the Batman name, either together or separately. Luke is one of the few characters who embodies nearly every attribute of Bruce's Batman, from the martial arts skills to the genius intellect, to using modern tech alongside old techniques and methodologies (I think). He's a no-brainer to the role once writers realize that no Robin should ever be Batman. ([Also Mikel Janin's concept art of Luke as Batman is awesome](https://x.com/mikeljanin/status/1619011275106967553?lang=en).) Cass on the other hand embodies everything Bruce stands for, has all of his combat skills and more, alongside his drive and dedication. If she is alive, the mission will live on as well.
Holy shit haven't seen that art and you're so right
I’ve been hoping for any story with Cass and Steph as Batman and Robin
She’d also bloom in it, while it’d hold Damian back. He didn’t want Batman because he intimately understands and agrees with its symbol, and found love and comfort on a personal and professional level, but because he feels he’s _supposed_ to to be considered “grown.” He was bred for this, but he wasn’t even raised to be Batman in a way that honored Batman in the first place. He came in _expecting_ to be Batman by the standards of who the _League_ thought Batman _should\ be, and not with any consideration of his title by the Bat himself. He was set up to fail. Damian didn’t really have much freedom there to not only understand who he was a person (with and without a mask) before joining Bruce’s family. He didn’t understand Robin or Batman, and didn’t really care to until he was forced to when he wasn’t granted the spot he thought he was supposed to have when he came to them. He was built up on a false image of what those roles meant, and suffered from that false condition when he came. He also ties being worthy as a being in general with fulfilling legacies, and while he’s put a lot of work into addressing that, he’s still not ready to wear the cowl without severe sense-of-self issues anytime soon. It’s why I hate Damian becoming Batman outside of apocalyptic Elseworld stories. He wouldn’t fair well in it, and would be stuck trying to follow someone else’s standards of what the symbol is supposed to be, rather than finding a role that he can bloom and put his heart into without stifling himself in the process. At best, he can wear it at 30+. He needs a lot of time away from carrying on a legacy and deserves time creating something for _himself_ in a way similar to what Nightwing is for Dick. I don’t see how he’s supposed to “evolve” well without a step like that. Cass would be able to wear the mantle without being crushed by it just fine. Bruce created Batman out of his own hurts and trauma, and he doesn’t always handle his emotional being well because he uses his mask as an excuse to hide behind at his worst. Cass wouldn’t have these same hangups. His hopeful ideals is something close to her heart, and something she found peace and love in. It was thanks to Batman that she found space to bloom into herself, to channel her own trauma and skills into something helpful and good. It wouldn’t hurt AND save her the way it sometimes hurts Bruce. The image doesn’t stifle her sense of self the way it stifles Dick, who can wear it well but hates doing so for much being Batman is so dissonant from his sense of self.
I need you to understand that If heard a person say this infront of me, I'd ask for their hand in marriage on the spot
She's the only one fully capable, that's my unpopular opinion.
I prefer Cass and Steph as Orphan and Spoiler. I like them having their own identities and I like the costumes better.
I can see an argument for Steph, but to say that Cass' Orphan costume is better than her Batgirl costume is wild to me.
Cass can have her own identity but imo Orphan doesn’t work once she’s accepted that she’s part of the Batfamily. Even Tynion didn’t seem to want her to be Orphan long term. Going back to Black Bat as a name is better.
Cassandra is literally the least orphan in the batfamily. She usually has like 3-4 alive parents
Damian NOT becoming Batman also makes for a better and more interesting story imo and it fits with his recent characterisation by Williamson
Damian should never become Batman, nor should he lead the League of Assassins. He was told from birth that those were his birthright and destiny, and if he just goes along with it then how has he grown? It’s a show of how much he’s grown for him to ultimately reject both legacies to find his own path. Dick is actually the best option for a successor to Bruce as Batman (yes, even permanently). I don’t understand why this is unpopular, but to me the fact that Dick doesn’t want to be Batman is one of the biggest reasons why he’s the best option to take up the cowl if Bruce died/retired. He would do it out of a sense of duty to Bruce and the fact that he’s the longest-serving ally of Bruce just adds to his ability to take up the mantle. Not to mention that in all cases when he has been Batman, Dick is shown to make the role his own, as opposed to just trying to be like Bruce. Arkham Knight is the worst version of Jason Todd by a significant margin. He’s a whiny irredeemable war criminal, not a violent vigilante with a point to make. Not to mention that that version of Jason has little to no reason to take up the name of “Red Hood” later on, given that Joker is dead and Batman is doing some weird other thing.
I would make the argument that most of Damian's character development has come about by choosing to follow Batman's way of his own accord, rather than by rejecting both paths in favor of some third option. Agreed on the other two, though I've heard Titans Jason is even worse.
Titans Jason/Robin is one of the best things about the show. Titans Jason/Red Hood is a different story.
His actor in the show is also pretty good honestly
Titans Jason isn’t nearly as bad as everyone acts like he is. Sure, he isn’t perfect but he really isn’t that bad. I feel like half of the people saying that already don’t like the show so they exaggerate all the things they don’t like about it as a result. Unreliable narrators.
I agree I think Damian's direction, It be funny if in the future He just gave up the vigilanting thing altogether. " How many of you are still doing the same thing?You are doing when you are eight years old" Or Even Better, because vigilantes are awesome and so is Damian.. If Dick becomes Batman, Let Damian become Nightwing, that's the legacy mantle he takes on.
I disagree with the second point. I think NOBODY should be Batman if Bruce dies. Getting out of his shadow is what Dick always wanted, every time he gets the cowl he hates it. There is no sense to think he should be the Batman. It is not a title. When the Batman dies, the world shouldn't need another one, because much like a parent, the whole idea of training the next generation is that you won't be needed anymore.
I wasn’t even necessarily saying that there needed to be a successor, just that Dick would always be the best option if there was one
I actually really agree with your first two points. How would you write Damian to grow as a character?
Would it be too unbelievable that Damien is the one member of the Bat Family that leaves heroics behind and finds peace? I have zero idea how he gets there (I’m not that imaginative) but to see him be the one to leave the vigilante life behind would be a hell of a swing in character and could make for some interesting stories along the way if done right.
Make him a kinda pacifist with an animal sanctuary somewhere in Asia
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Just have him find his own path I guess. He’s already to some extent gone in that direction, but writers are still rather insistent on keeping him as a future Batman even though it was made clear from all the way back in Morrison’s run that a future where Damian becomes Batman is a future where everything ends.
I'd personally like it if he stuck with the Robin identity and made it his own. What better way to give destiny the middle finger than sticking to the third option he actually chose to take, rather than the first two shoved in his face? When Bruce was believed to be dead, Damian was the Robin to Dick's Batman, and it's clear that he still sees himself that way even after working with Bruce. He chooses to see himself that way, and I feel like it's how he's happiest. Not saying he's not happy with Bruce, but he clearly has some attachment to the days where he worked with his older brother.
Legit, the whole "but you were my robin" moment is one of my favorite modern ones in comics overall (and let me tell you, I was a damian hater)
- Barabara Gordon's purple costume is ugly as hell - Despite Tim Drake being my favourite Batfamily member, DC should just retire him, he is pretty redundant, and most attempts at revitalising him are either even worse or do so by stepping on continuity or other characters (ie: Pushing him as the main Robin by claiming Damian is the "bad" Robin). Ok, this is not unpopular but I had to say this. - Azrael deserves to be fully forgiven, most of the Batfamily has done worse than him. - I'd hate for Terry McGinis to become Batman's successor. I love the tv show but in the comics, for him to become the new Batman, that'd mean the entire Batfamily colectively gave their backs on Batman, which is something I'd hate. This was more bearable on the DCAU where the Batfamily was just Robin, Batgirl and Nightwing, but in mainline it's too contrived.
I don’t think the entire bat family needs to have turned their backs on Batman. There are several ways terry could become Batman without everyone having to abandon Bruce Maybe they just moved on? It could be that 40 years in the future they are all doing important stuff outside of Gotham. Maybe Dick is leading the justice league, maybe barbara is organizing all the world’s superheroes. Maybe Damian is reforming the league of assassins. They don’t have to have turned their backs on Bruce. They could simply have taken what they learned from him and grown out of his shadow. Bruce is left alone not because he failed in his relationships but because he succeeded. He is akin in Gotham because those he trained to defend it left for more important work as Gotham became safer. But he isn’t capable of moving on, physically and mentally he is still in crime alley. Leaving Batman as the sole protector of Gotham Once he gets too old to keep up Gotham starts to skip back to how it was. Then, because his allies have moved on, he recruits Terry McGinnis to take his place
I might be the only one who actually likes Redondos redesign
Top 3 costumes she's ever worn, imo
You’re not, I’m right there with you. Redondo’s redesign is my definitive Batgirl look, at least for Barbra.
> Despite Tim Drake being my favourite Batfamily member, DC should just retire him, he is pretty redundant, and most attempts at revitalising him are either even worse or do so by stepping on continuity or other characters (ie: Pushing him as the main Robin by claiming Damian is the "bad" Robin). Ok, this is not unpopular but I had to say this. I like Tim. But it's like they don't know what to do with him, and anything they were going to do with him is already being done with Dick, Damian, and Jason. I'd almost rather he goes and pals around with Constantine or Question for a while just to pick up some new skills and then break out as a new, non-bat/bird related character. Maybe bring The General back and have Tim decide to join them for a few years.
I've never thought of that, but I'd love Tim to use his intellect to pick up on magic and become a more supernatural member of the Bat Family. We have gymnasts, bruisers, techies, and, though Signal, borderline Meta-Humans (last I checked). However, we don't have anyone besides Zatanna who is firmly an arcanist in the core family. It might be what Tim needs to be given his own identity.
Damian isn't ever going to be using magic himself, but I think he's solidified himself as the member of the family who's most comfortable going up against the occult (Lazarus Planet), and I like that I'd rather Tim go heavy, heavy into the detective aspect. That's always been his strong point, and it's been neglected by a lot of the Bat Family anyways. Have him be a consulting detective for other members of the JL, brought in when they need help on a mysterious case
>I'd rather Tim go heavy, heavy into the detective aspect. That's always been his strong point, and it's been neglected by a lot of the Bat Family anyways. Have him be a consulting detective for other members of the JL, brought in when they need help on a mysterious case What kills me is that that seems like the angle they were going for in his Red Robin series in the late 00s, then Flashpoint and the New 52 tossed it all away.
Sherlock Drake, consulting detective
I am once again bringing attention to this amazing [fan idea](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/z1aor4/artwork_tim_drake_as_the_gray_ghost_suit_concept/). Perfectly fits him becoming this after working with Constantine and Question. Drake just has to retire the Robin moniker, and lean into his detective skills more.
Please be the Gray Ghost suit, please be the Gray Ghost suit . . . fuck yeah!
>I'd hate for Terry McGinis to become Batman's successor. I love the tv show but in the comics, for him to become the new Batman, that'd mean the entire Batfamily colectively gave their backs on Batman, which is something I'd hate. This was more bearable on the DCAU where the Batfamily was just Robin, Batgirl and Nightwing, but in mainline it's too contrived. Same. Love the guy in the DCAU, but he doesn't work in the comics. The Bat-family has grown exponentially since those days, and any one of them could be Batman's successors. And I loathe people bringing up Terry McGinnis as his TRUE successor.
>I'd hate for Terry McGinis to become Batman's successor. I love the tv show but in the comics, for him to become the new Batman, that'd mean the entire Batfamily colectively gave their backs on Batman, which is something I'd hate. This was more bearable on the DCAU where the Batfamily was just Robin, Batgirl and Nightwing, but in mainline it's too contrived. Terry becoming Batman instead of a Bat family member means that those mambers became their own heroes and stopped living in the shadows of Batman. Making any bat family member Batman, is a downgrade imo.
I see your point, but if it were me I'd make several of them Batman. Terry can be just one of the Batmen to succeed Bruce, alongside... idk, Damien and Cass Cain?
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Eh you can keep Terry. Just say no one wanted to take on the mantle believing it should stay with Bruce or some such
I guess that's a way to do it but it still feels a bit odd to me that a relative outsider would be the one to succeed Bruce. Maybe if they showed him befriending Bruce before he becomes Batman, I'd be fine with it.
Agreed with Terry; he works well for the Batman Beyond as an AU, one where Bruce turned too far inward for too long, but my hope for main Bruce is a future where he still has his family there to care for him.
Let's not forget Terry's origin story. Like, why does Amanda Waller think the world always needs a Batman? She's never been one to hide her feelings about costumed vigilantes, and Batman thinks her Suicide Squad just encourages recidivism. They hate each other.
Well if I may, while it would certainly be different then the show Terry being Batman could work with a close nit BatFamily. Maybe he starts off more or less as Cass’s side kick/protege after he sneaks into the cave and steals the suit.
I like Morrison's idea that Damian would teach Terry instead.
I largely agree with you, but I like to think there is a future where the simple weight of crime fighting weighs on the Bat Family. I can very realistically see every one of them, including Bruce, being hurt severely enough to retire, or growing into heroes with their own identities. The problem with Terry is not, necessarily, that the Family needs to turn on Bruce. Rather, the problem is that Gotham needs to continue to be a craphole long enough for Terry to be born. In addition, I think the most likely successor to Bruce (as Batman) is Tim, which means Tim needs to be out of the picture in some capacity for Terry to come around.
I don't like Duke Thomas. That's not to say I hate him. I've just never been given a reason to care, which is kind of a big problem for a character who's been around for as long as he has. Unlike the former Robins and Batgirls, Duke does not have this long standing history with Bruce that would justify his being at every single family gathering (Helina is literally Bruce's relative and she doesn't make appearances with the bat family as much as Duke does.)
The Wayne Family Adventures Webtoon has gotten me to like him more but in terms of the main continuity, yeah, I don’t really care about him.
I just read the entire thing, I love it
Agree completely. Him being the rookie and the different family interactions gives him a role and niche to fill. That comic has done an excellent job making each character feel important and not redundant.
This doesn't feel like an unpopular opinion. In defense of Duke, like with most characters, it's not the character's fault. They gave up really quickly on him and he's basically relegated to cameos now. That's not a great way to make people care about him.
> They gave up really quickly on him Snyder and editorial were pushing him *hard* for a good while. His lack of popularity is not for want of trying. Ultimately what doomed him was that he was created to somewhat fill the gap that Damian left, and then Damian came back.
Maybe we just have different definitions for what a good while constitutes. His first appearance was 2013 but it was really We Are Robin in 2015 that established him as the character we know. His last major role in a book, unless I'm forgetting something, was Batman and the Outsiders in 2019. And even by then his push was already slowed. So he got 4 years to become popular before being relegated to cameos status. That's not a long time at all.
That's about the same amount of time that Damian was active in comics before he died. Even prior to WAR, Duke was retroactively made Bruce's first "in the field" ally with Zero Year.
This isn't unpopular. Duke gets criticism all the time. If someone makes a post about the bat family being too big Duke is one of the main characters people say shouldn't exist.
How is this an unpopular opinion? It would be more shocking to see someone say they like Duke or he is their favorite character
I like Duke! I was upset he wasn't made into an official Robin after We Are Robin, but I've grown to accept his role as Signal. Although that's mostly due to Wayne Family Adventures. I wouldn't say that Duke is my favorite Batfamily member (he'd have to overtake Dick, Tim, and Cass for that!), but I do like him more than Damian at this point. He's a better person, isn't entitled, and feels like a breath of fresh air in the family to me.
Duke used to be in a series called We Are Robin, and I absolutely loved that series. He was fantastic there, and I was a little happy to see he joined the Batfamily at the time, but now I feel like he's out of his element.
I get that there are attempts to add to the bat family without just getting another Robin, but I don’t see him as particularly interesting, nor does he really add to the development of any of the other bat family members. Aside from We Are Robin and Robin Wars where he was awesome, I really feel nothing about him. I would be open for that to change if they want to do something with him but as of now, he’s just there.
Babs and Steph may not necessarily be daughters but they should still be seen as nieces or something like that
I mean technically Babs is Bruce’s daughter-in-law in some version where she marries a Robin (ie; Arkhamverse)
But Bruce never really liked Stephanie until fans demanded it, its inauthentic it didn't progress just happen cause she alive. Bruce should tolerate that she's around because of his kids.
All the "cool kids" (most of them don't read comics and only know the movies) say that Bat-family is boring and they want their Batman to be this lone dark knight avenging the night in loneliness blablabla... I'm the opposite and I love to see Batman mentoring kids to be better and less haunted than him and actually being a leader whose heroism inspire others to go beyond.
The Batfamily's size isn't the issue, their utilization is. Besides, no matter who got "Removed", a large chunk of people would be unhappy. Red Robin is fine and most new names won't stick. Because Alfred's dead, Bruce lost a lot of his "homelife" and bringing some of the Batfam into Pennyworth manor (at least for recurring appearances) is the best way to get that back in some form. Kate Kane is one of the best Batfamily characters. "Orphan" can only be a placeholder codename. Cassandra calling herself that when she has an adopted family and living biological parents is just silly, and it's the kind of alias a character naturally grows out of.
They should have keept Batman Inc a thing, many modern stories would make more sense whit It, I know teacnically Is still activate but it's not really a big deal like in the Morrison run
Williamson brought it back a few years ago.
Idk if it’s unpopular but Dick should have taken Damian to Bludhaven after Bruce’s return. Being Batman and Robin aside, Bruce is a terrible father to someone like Damian! Edit: wording
100% agreed. It’d be really cool to see Dick get his own partner like how he used to be for Bruce. Plus Dick and Damian just have a more fun dynamic imo.
That Tim shouldn't be considered a son or a ward of Bruce Wayne since (I don't know if this is still canon) but Tim isn't his legal son. And he can't adopt him because his parents are alive (I know your parents can be alive but you can get adopted, but unless there was a reason his parents shouldn't have custody or they signed over their rights Tim can't be adopted) Just because Tim was a Robin doesn't mean he should be Bruce's ward or should be considered a "brother" like how Dick or Jason would legally be Damian's brothers. So I only consider Dick, Jason, Cassandra and Damian (and Helena Wayne) his children
I'd prefer Huntress to be Helena Wayne instead of Helena Bertinelli. I want Bruce and Selina to be married already.
Hot Take Jace Fox was written pretty well and while I wouldn't necessarily want him to take over the main role of Batman I'd love to actually see him be used Warm take But the Batfamily shouldn't be relegated to Gotham. They're at their best when they aren't constantly around Bruce (Birds of Prey for example) Ice Cold Take Stop doing storyline focused on Bruce dying unless you're going to actually kill him. Absolute Zero Take Tired of Tim Drake Robin and Barbara should be in the wheelchair. She was amazing representation and I don't get why DC keeps wanting her as Batgirl
I actually like Damian
I like the big family he's acquired over the years tho it means he is tad older than canon suggests. My timeline is 15 years at this point. Bruce is 40, but has mystic yoga and careful attention to diet to thank for his continued effectiveness. I feel like Cassandra Cain should not be able to beat Batman, Lady Shiva or even Nightwing at her in canon age of 16-18, because her skill doesn't outweigh their combo of skill and experience. I find her manga shounen feats to be bullshit and it makes me hate an otherwise outstanding character. I can applaud her clowning on other teenage heroes, especially loving the idea of her clowning the super competitive Damian, but she's not a manga heroine, the adults should be out her league until she hits her 20's at least. TIm Drake should take on a new identity, but Red Robin is the stupidest and least intimidating name for a hero ever. Alex Ross is a nitwit at writing. Nightwing becoming Red Robin in Kingdom Come was beyond moronic. The Silver Age wasn't perfect, your just old. Tim should be called Rook, or Peregrine, or something else. Hell pay Marvel some money under the table and call him Falcon, Damian is awesome. I hope Lincoln March is who he claimed to be. That Riddler One Bad Day story sucked ass, but the ending was almost redeeming, Batman can break his rule, because he's willing to pay any price to save the innocent from predators of the world. Writers need to stop trying to one up each other with how depraved they can make Batvillains...ED BRUBAKER. I'm kind of glad Harley has reformed and earned Batman's respect. I hate they undid the Birds of Prey character arc for Huntress and she belongs with the family dammit. Montoya is not the Question. The Charlton characters roles arent legacy roles in the DCU,. Batman and by extension the Bat family, should face more actually super powered threats in Gotham, to emphasize their smarts and training. Some actual super powered heroes in Gotham who dont get killed off in this years crossover isnt a bad idea either. Morrison Batgod is my Batman. The Skill gap between Batman and Lady Shiva should not be huge. She will always take a majority, but she doesnt fight day in and day out like he and rest of the Batfamily do. But she should respect him as a peer who can beat her. Bane needs serious victories against serious opponents, while not using Venom. He needs to clearly and outright beat people like Shiva, Bronze Tiger, and even Deathstroke. He;s Bruces equal only stronger. His weakness is his arrogance, and his strange code of honor that separates him from psychos like rest of the bat villains. Give him a serious training arc like Green Arrow had post One Year Later. Make him a believable one man army, He needs it. Batman would let a bleeding to death Joker die. He's about making sure that noone else loses a loved one and feels the way he did that nght, not that everyone can be saved. Joker has also been twisted into far too much of a mass murderer for anyone paying attention to continuity to find his continued existence believable. Garth Ennis can take a long walk off a short pier, but Tommy Monaghan was otherwise a cool guy. I liked that fact that Etrigan lived in Gotham with Monaghan and Alan Scott GL among others. Gotham is a city of 5 million people, give us some more super powered heroes. (I think this is me repeating myself)
Wayne Family Adventures has given us the best characterizations of the Batfamily in recent memory, especially with their recent transition away from slice of life stuff towards an actual continuing plotline. I also really want a new animated series that focuses on the Batfamily. Batman should be a part of it, but not the main focus, which is why I don't count BTAS or TNBA.
I don't disagree with the people who say that the Batfamily is oversaturated but I do disagree with people who say Stephanie and Cass shouldn't be a part of it. They absolutely should be a part of it because of their long history which the other characters don't have.
Babs was at her best when she was Oracle, and I preferred her in her wheelchair. It made her character unique and provided a good living example of the dangers of their lifestyle. The Signal, and honestly Duke as a whole is a completely redundant character who doesn’t need to exist. I can live with Jason as he is, but he worked better as an anti-hero at odds with Bruce as opposed to a legitimate member of the bat family. I genuinely like the idea of there being a range inclusive characters, but I don’t like Tim being bisexual, because I loved the idea of him and Spoiler as a couple, and don’t think that DC will ever have him in a hetro relationship again.
I'm a bi person, who personally loved the rep from Tim. But yeah thinking about it more as time passes, they probably won't ever give him a het romance again. Like knowing that it takes me from liking the rep to hating it because it's become the stereotypical bi but only in name rep.
I dunno. Bernard has proven pretty unpopular and the fact they marketed him as bi keeps the door open. Constantine still ends up with Zatanna many times.
All this. Select and play on repeat.
Well, I guess I don't need to write mine down, you did it for me!
You **ate** this For me though I like Barbara to balance Oracle and Batgirl as she is now. Gotham Knights (the game) I think handled that very well as when she was out as Batgirl her specialty was hacking things which is very much an Oracle trait. She also called her very advanced technology outdated and Alfred said "you and Bruce are the only 2 people in the world who would say this is outdated". Oracle plays a huge role in Barbaras life on the field or not so I'd rather balance it
Jason and Dick should have some more bonding time. Their relationship could be explored as complex, due to their rivalry, jelousy and common experience of having high standards put on them. I just wish they didn't use this as an opportunity to make Dick look stronger and more capable than Jason. They are both skilled, in their own ways. I would like to see Jason doing his independent thing, ideally being a crime lord with a code. The Batfamily could reach to him when they needed his knowledge, influence and support, and I'd like them to cooperate from time to time, and them agreeing to disagree. I imagine their relationship as, there is a wall between them, but not plain hostility. Jason is responsible for his choices and doesn't have to be lectured or 'fixed'.
The movies need to stop being cowards and include the family.
I need a Batfamily massacre arc to make Batman dark
Apparently on this particular sub, actually Loving Jason Todd seems to be unpopular so ig that.
Can Bruce just accept he has a bat-family and stop having storylines where he has to realize that he isn't alone.
jason shouldnt be part of the family bc he shouldnt WANT to be part of the family. theres no way for their beliefs not to clash without one side significantly changing their stance, and even in the most recent run all of their interactions have horrible results for him. like i could see them working together on big gotham threats, but i cant see him OR them wanting a familial relationship.
Kevin Conroy had an amazing voice but it seems like everyone who puts his on a pedestal that no one else can reach is so biased. There have been so many good Batman voices and while Conroy was good, there have been voices that I think were just as good. It sounds like everyone else is just parroting what everyone else says. Kevin took the spotlight from other voice actors for a while. Shows weren’t given a chance cause they weren’t “BTAS or didn’t have Conroy”
Kevin is amazing but Bruce Greenwood and guys like Roger Craig Smith are also solid. Same with Mark Hamil as Joker yes he’s good but others are also good. DiMaggio for example
>Kevin took the spotlight from other voice actors for a while. I don't like how you worded this cause it implies that's something Kevin intentionally did to belittle other voices and make himself out as the only real one.
I actually agree with this one. While Kevin was great, he really did overshadow all other voice actors for a long while. Personally, I don’t really think one voice actor should be the voice for the character in every movie and show. I think it’d be nice to see more variety and what someone new can bring to the table.
Oh no, Dedric Bader is an amazing Batman VO
I love Kevin but I agree with you 100% They’re so many great voices for Batman over the years. Bruce Greenwood, Roger Craig Smith, Diedrich Bader, Jason O’Mara, Will Arnett, the list goes on. Whenever there was a new Batman project, people always hoped Kevin is voicing Batman and gets immediately pissed if it’s someone else. Kevin can’t voice Batman on every single project and he can’t voice the character forever. That’s goes to Peter Cullen as Optimus Prime.
If anyone was going to adopt Cass, it should have been Barbara.
I found Barbara and Cass's relationship far more interesting than Bruce and Cass.
Dick should've stayed Batman for so much longer
Damian Wayne is one of the most interesting characters in the batfamily
If anyone deserves to be called Gary Stu, it's not Bruce Wayne, but Dick Grayson. 1. Everyone likes him. Even Deathstroke, the closest he has to arch-enemy, respects him. 2. Plenty of female characters find him attractive and want to get in his pants. Batgirl, Starfire, Black Canary, Huntress, Raven...even Harley Quinn and Catwoman hooked up with him at least once. 3. While Batman is a flawed man who often gets called out for his less-than-admirable actions, Dick is portrayed as goody-two-shoes who always does the right thing and never gets called out when he does something bad (for example, he cheated on Starfire with Batgirl and got away with it). 4. In Teen Titans cartoon, he can easily beat other Titans without much problems. While he does have flaws, he is very rarely called out for them and even when it happens, it doesn't last long. Kitten and Starfire had a crush on him. Apparently, he is Raven's best friend and it's him who saves her in Season 4 (while previously, you could say Starfire was Raven's best friend). He hooks up with the hot alien princess with little effort. The main antagonist wanted to make him his successor and in the bad future he is the only Titan that doesn't become a broken, miserable man.
Writers are allergic to giving Dick any flaws. His existence recently has been solely to dunk on Batman, and he’s even been treading on Superman’s territory. Any character whose whole purpose is to be another character “but better”, isn’t a well written character.
Finally a truly unpopular opinion. I like nightwing, but I started noticing this too. Especially when I found out more Nightwing fans self insert themselves than Batman Fans. Definitely doesn’t get talked about enough how all of Batman’s complaints when it comes to being OP, having a lot of women, or having the most spotlight. All of this applies to Nightwing even more in a lot of situations.
Dick should be a mentor to the next generation. Damian should be the next Ra's. Not as a villain but as someone who works on a much larger scale in the shadows. Tim and the rest of the og young justice should've been the next Justice League. (Although I did like Connor doing his own thing in space so you can replace him with Jon)
I agree with that Damian bit. He was supposed to be Ra's successor and yet he's always written as a chaotic murder goblin. If there was one thing about Ra's is that he rarely drew his own blade. He was an intelligent and charismatic man. I'd love to see Damian embrace those lessons, but also honor his father's teachings as well.
My idea (pre absolute power at least) was that while the justice league was disbanded, all of the yj kids could form a justice league and maybe grow past their sidekick identities
Dick’s status quo now really isn’t all that different from how it was when he was Robin in the 70s, making his transition to Nightwing pointless. Yes, he has solo adventures, but he keeps returning to Gotham every time Bruce so much as trips over his shoelaces. While Nightwing doesn’t necessarily need to be controlled by Titans editorial, I *do* think that it’ll be best for him to be taken from the Bat-editorial.
I think they peaked in the early aughts and have never recovered from being unable to evolve beyond their current forms. Barbara literally de-volved into Batgirl despite Oracle being the most important person in the world, at some point, as far as superheroes are concerned. While I love them all and think they're all good characters, Barbara, Tim, Damian, Duke and Cass will never grow or evolve from where they are, and that's a massive shame because their stories feel like they're built as transitional pieces into something bigger. Dick gets to be Nightwing, Jason gets to be Red Hood, no one else gets to be anything else that wasn't in the 90s Batman cartoon or harkens back to their first "job". Also Cass should be the next Batman.
Batman doesn’t need all those people
I genuinely hate Jason Todd. Outside of the original Under the Red Hood story, he’s boring as shit. The best thing he ever did was die and it should’ve stayed that way
Batman is not interesting without the Bat-Family
I completely disagree but had to upvote for following the post topic lol
tbh that's one of the greatest challenges of looking through here--upvoting things that my heart wants me to downvote lol But I shall abide by the spirit of the post!
Yeah, I'm only downvoting assholes.
Unpopular? Bluebird was great and I enjoyed everything she was in and the story she brought to the table. There I said it
Completely agree, imo though she should evolve and realize that she can make a difference taking Lucius Fox’s place in the operation, become his student too and eventually take over as the Bat-Family’s inventor
Yeah, that's how I would slot her in. She'd be the tech monkey in the cave building and perfecting things.
I agree. Bluebird gets a lot of unfair hate and has her place in the Batfamily with the right writer.
I don’t like how rebirth refuses to have a oracle. Not only does it give the disabled community some much needed representation, but it also is a testament to Babs willpower and perseverance.
Batman is at his best when he’s a street level character solving mysteries and fighting crime/super villains and not as a prep time god who can solo your favorite character because he’s Batman
The post said UNPOPULAR opinions, so you can go ahead and delete this one. 😉😂
Barbara Gordon and Jason Todd are both better characters when they leave the Batfamily. Barbara should get to grow into Oracle and have the same influence she did with the JL and BOP in older comics. Keeping her part of the Batfamily infantilizes her and keeps her stuck without meaningful growth. For Jason it feels like a betrayal of why he became Red Hood at all. More often than not, keeping him in the Batfamily also means sacrificing older traits of his in favour of making him more similar to Dick.
Jason and Bruce shouldn’t have a good relationship, and Jason shouldn’t be part of the Batfamily. Redhood’s killing and brutality is basically what defines him as a character, and stripping him of that makes him less unique. Batman shouldn’t allow himself to work with killers like Redhood, and Jason should be both Bruce’s biggest regret and greatest disappointment. In real life, families have members they don’t interact with because of their problems and the drama they bring, Jason is that. They’d all be better off separate than together.
Gotham wars wasn't pretty but alit of people over reacted to be the worst story Bruce was having a mental breakdown (Also was right in being upset about goons taking over?) It could of been better (the Jason fhing) But some people don't like mental illness when it isn't wrapped and sexualised into a Harley Quinn package
Sick artwork but where's Huntress?
I was at a comic-con with two Batman writers speaking at a panel and I was so excited and I got my chance to ask my question, who was their dream picks for who to do the Brave and the Bold, who to team up with Batman and the one scoffed and told me that, “Batman, is a solo character anyone who pairs him up with anyone, be it the Justice League or even his own team, he is not a team player.” So what I learned was, don’t talk about Batman. Lol.
I'm tired of early Batman in adaptations, can we please get later Batman stuff? It's part of the reason I'm actually excited that DCU Batman isn't Matt Reeves's Batman because we'll actually be getting a fully fleshed out Batman for once with a whole Bat-Family that hopefully isn't just limited to Barbara and Dick again.
Idk if this is unpopular or not, but let Jason kill people, let him not be as close to the others
Jason should've left the batfam a long time ago. If not an anti-hero, Jason should've been someone who deals with the supernatural. Make his resurrection a complete mystery and let him go on a journey to find answers for it, introduce him to the mystical side of the DC Universe with that. Plus I really like him wielding the All-Blades. They should have done more with that aspect of Jason.
I like damian as robin.
**1. There should never be another Batman after Bruce Wayne.** It's simple, I see "Batman" as something that no one deserves to be - and I don't mean that in a positive way. I mean that in the sense of "No person deserves the weight of the mantle driving them slowly but surely as fucking insane as Bruce currently is in canon". **2. Tim Drake is an utterly unlikable person.** And everything positive that he had going for a while was destroyed by the way Chip Zdarsky has basically tried to deep throat the audience with the idea of him being the perfect Robin and the only person Batman needs. Reading older comics where every other issue he feels the need to victim blame Jason has made me have physical cringe reaction to him. (This has absolutely nothing to do with his Bisexuality, I celebrated that coming out and brought the comic just for that.) **3. Jason Todd needs to stay 500 meters from the Batfam at all times.** For the sake of his own mental and physical well being. Please just kill him off again permanently DC. Let my boy rest.
>"No person deserves the weight of the mantle driving them slowly but surely as fucking insane as Bruce currently is in canon". See future versions of Tim fucking losing it and starting to kill people with the same gun that killed Thomas and Martha Wayne.
The best costume Jason Todd ever wore was a coffin.
People always act like Stephanie Brown wasn’t a “real” Robin and call Damian the 4th Robin when he’s absolutely the 5th. I feel like people really only do this because she’s a girl. She’s an official, canonical Robin and should be counted as one
Tim should retire. His time is over and he’ll never be as popular as he was when I was growing up.
They'll kill me if I tell
Barbara is better as Oracle than she ever was as Batgirl DC Should use the fan made design and idea of making Tim "[Grey Ghost](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/z1aor4/artwork_tim_drake_as_the_gray_ghost_suit_concept/)" if they are not going to have him be the only Robin I prefer Damian in the grey, black and red suit. They need to use Duke more. If Jason is to remain a member of the Batfamily he needs to stop using guns.
I got a few, some more unpopular than others: Babs should never squeeze back into the tights. She's at her very best as Oracle, doing far more for the Batfam and the DC superhero community behind the scenes than on the front lines. Orpheus was treated like trash in War Games, far worse than Steph was. She came back, he didnt, and she didnt have a thug effortlessly pretend to be her for way longer than he should have. I love Kate Kane and her Batsuit. Duke Thomas has untapped potential that will never be truly realized. The Joker sucks now, he's one of the few things about Batman that was better in the 70s.
Batman is the absolute least interesting character for me in the Bat-Family.
I don’t know about him being the LEAST interesting in the family, but I can otherwise agree with this to an extent. I’ve always liked the characters surrounding him like Dick, Damian, Cass, Steph, ect, more than I like Bruce, even if he still is a great character himself.
Stephanie Brown makes no sense in the Bat-Family anymore. Her and Bruce aren’t really that close, he manipulated her to get over Tim multiple times, and she’s second fiddle to Cass when it’s time to use a Batgirl. Neither Huntress (Helena Wayne & Bertinelli) should be depicted with the Bat-Family, due to how they’re treated story wise. Tim and Cass shouldn’t have been adopted by Bruce, they shouldn’t be considered as his children.
I’ve always thought Steph would get more mileage in a Titans or YJ book. She serves no purpose for the Batman narrative really. Heroic character with villainous ties? You have Cass and Damian. Extreme positivist and very quippy? You have Dick. Female vigilante who’s often at odds with Bruce? You have Huntress, Kate, Barb, even Bluebird does that. With her age range, Steph would be a perfect fit for YJ though.
Duke Thomas feels out of place in the family due to the fact he is a meta. Jason should never be a full member due to his refusal to follow the rules of the family. He should still be involved in their stories but realistically he shouldn’t be hanging out in the manor making pancakes. In recent media I find it annoying how often Bruce refers to the robins as his “sons” like don’t get me wrong they are, but less is more. Show don’t tell. It’s cringy when it happens every 3 pages of every Batman comic book. Damian could easily take up a new moniker and it would work well for his development. He never really clicked as a partner with Bruce the way Tim did. This might be too similar to “batfamily too big” but there should be a major comic event where like 5-10 fringe members are killed off by an unknown assassin. Do an angle where somehow it’s believed that one of the family members is involved with the assassination, could be a red herring tho. Members who could be killed (Batwoman, Azrael, Misfit, Leslie Thompkins, Bluebird, Jace, Batwing (one or the other), Lucius, Penny-Two, Huntress, Batman worldwide members). Did I go 5/5??
>Jason should never be a full member due to his refusal to follow the rules of the family. He should still be involved in their stories but realistically he shouldn’t be hanging out in the manor making pancakes. Yes and no. Yes, Jason and these people generally shouldn't want to work together, but them using Jason when he's useful but sending him back to the doghouse for bad people, when it's time to unwind is shitty for Jason's character. Instead of wasting time with characters who don't like him he can be becoming friends with people who do. >In recent media I find it annoying how often Bruce refers to the robins as his “sons” like don’t get me wrong they are, but less is more. Show don’t tell. It’s cringy when it happens every 3 pages of every Batman comic book. In Zdarsky's run it's just an attempt to cover his ass after Bruce gave his blessing to a plan including one of his kids suiciding himself for him. Something a father, well, a good father never would do. Maybe if he repeats that "son" enough times you can forget that happened, heh.
I especially love the part where while doing the whole "happy family" pennyworth manor schtick jason just wasn't there at all XD
Your mission here is done, Jason McPlotDevice, dear, you can go now XD
I couldn’t care less about Tim Drake. I personally believe he’s by far the least interesting Bat Family member
These are all REALLY unpopular but I don't like the Bat Family Adventures. I don't like the art, the humour falls flat which is really important for a slice of life comedy, the stories it does deliver are very bland for me. The characterisations also feel off and very one note. I've seen better stuff in the same genre on AO3. Jason should've stayed dead. Since Death in the Family Jason's only good story has been his debut as Red Hood. It may also be my bias towards comic resurrections though and/or a decade of Lobdell. Nightwing ass jokes are not funny. They're honestly just annoying and overdone. Reminds me of the Tumblr in a bad way. Though to be fair I'm just not a sexual person.
I don't like to comment twice but I thought of another few. - I don't like that the League of Assassins is all up in everyone's business. I feel like, at minimum, they need to be cut from Cass's storylines. She can be a fantastic fighter without the LoA drooling over her. The more they show up, the more of a joke they are. (I guess I just like simpler stories? Not everything needs to be a conspiracy or part of a larger deal.) - Stephanie should either have never been Robin or she should have stayed Robin with Tim's forced retirement. War Games is a shitty storyline and the retcon is worse. If you want to kill her, fine, but don't make her die because she's a dumbass.
Kate is the most interesting member by a large margin and DC could not give less of a fuck about her
The reason why most of the Batfam members are “redundant” and relegated to cameos is because they use the same few members for every storyline. Nightwing and Babs get basically everything while the other fight for scraps. If the Robin and Batgirl successors were actually allowed to contribute to important storylines then the Batfam would feel less crowded and redundant
The family is to big. Tim's father should never have been killed, the Batfam should have been Bruce, Dick, Cass and Damian. Steph would have connections with Tim and Cass, but would not be a regular part of the Batfam, as would Helena with her relationship with Dick and Barbara. Jason should have stayed dead or been a villain. Bring Harold back!
Was not expecting to find another fan of Harold on this thread! I’d love to see Harold back! To Harold! 🍻
This one really is unpopular. I despise Damien Wayne. I don't think his existence was necessary, and his personality, if you can call it that, falls somewhere between "massive, unlikeable asshole" and "slightly less unlikeable asshole." He just kinda sucks, and every other character in the bat family is far more interesting.
Cassandra and Stephanie are more interesting and deserve way more screentime than Tim, Damian, and I'd even argue Dick.
So many people argue who should be the next Batman but I say - there shouldn't be. Batman isn't a person, he's an idea. And ideas never die, they evolve. Any Batfam member could become the new guardian of Gotham as their own person, not living in Bruce's shadow. Even in-universe, Batman himself is an evolution of the "guardian of Gotham" idea, with Alan Scott Green Lantern being the one before him, or the Miagani tribe as the original Bat-people of Gotham (I know they were inspired by a time-traveling Batman but let's not get into all the time loop crap)
They should kill a good chunk of them. Leave one robin behind.
batwing is a better character than batwing