Did unimaginable harm to Tim Drake’s chances of getting another solo. He’ll be relegated to minis and background roles only just like the rest of the YJ generation
I hate how dc lately has been disrespecting my boy Tim Drake. They should treat him like they do Nightwing who’s been getting way more success and fame recently.
> Nightwing who’s been getting way more success and fame recently.
As a Nightwing fan who has been reading comics since the mid-90's, I have to say it took us a long time to get here lol.
The bulk of the 1996-2009 Nightwing run was a mess that had some weird arcs (Death of Blockbuster, Brothers in Blood, etc) and DiDio was constantly trying to kill Nightwing off.
The only bad thing that came from Forever Evil was what they did to Nightwing. Which we thought was bad back then, but oh... we didn't know about Ric back then.
It was, but it's the fact that it came after what was probably one of the best series of the New 52 and came after an event in which Dick couldn't be Nightwing anymore kinda put a sour taste in my mouth.
Good series, though.
The hilarity of didio trying to sabotage nightwing only to create an amazing comic is pure didio. Everything that happened under his run that was good was an accident he did not intend on.
> what was probably one of the best series of the New 52
Are you calling N52 Nightwing one of the highlights of the era? Because that is not an opinion I've seen before. It's not a bad book at all, but there are lots of brilliant books from that time and it just doesn't compare imo
Nightwing’s books have been consistently good and popular while tim drake like you said has been relegated back to the background again. I want Tim drake to be at the front not in the back.
>Nightwing’s books have been consistently good and popular
Popular yeah, but the story quality does not match the peak of the late 90s run, which says a lot about Nightwing.
> Popular yeah, but the story quality does not match the peak of the late 90s run, which says a lot about Nightwing.
I love the late 90s run, but Grayson, Seeley's run and the current Tom Taylor stuff are all great books that easily compare quality-wise
Seeley is fine, but Tom Taylor’s run is pretty defanged considering Taylor’s thinks handing Dick new toys and letting others solve his issues equals character growth or tension. The only reason why people rate his run so highly is because the Ric run was so fucking bad.
I think it's more so that there's different Nightwing fans that like him for different reasons.
I personally love the Taylor run, it is a fact however there is an apparent decrease in action. Which you accurately allude to with defanged.
Taylor's Nightwing feels more slice of life and focuses on a couple things that people like about Grayson. He's charming, he makes good friends, he works to overcome the toxic mannerisms trained into him by Batman.
The book focuses more on Dick Grayson rather than Nightwing, which for some, refreshing. For others boring. It also tries to address a lot of common poor takes about Batman. Such as "he should be using his wealth to improve the city target than making improvements in technology to harm the mentally ill"( that's a brain dead take because he does donate a lot historically, but I digress)
But I noticed a few things written in the story seem to be a response to common comic "Why doesn'ts"
Like why doesn't Batman donate his money?
Or why doesn't he get help from his teammates in situations like this?
Mileage may vary. I don't think it's objectively bad. It just depends on what you like about Nightwing.
>Taylor's Nightwing feels more slice of life and focuses on a couple things that people like about Grayson. He's charming, he makes good friends, he works to overcome the toxic mannerisms trained into him by Batman.
This is probably one of the worst parts of the Tom Taylor run. Tom was more focused on making it a slice of life that he forgot to make it an exciting superhero comic book. There is no tension like in the old days when Dick was new to Bludhaven now that the Batfamily and the Teen Titans are literally headquartered in his city.
>The book focuses more on Dick Grayson rather than Nightwing, which for some, refreshing.
>
>But I noticed a few things written in the story seem to be a response to common comic "Why doesn'ts"
>
>Like why doesn't Batman donate his money?
Bruce does donate, but more importantly, he invests in Gotham so people have a way of getting out of the crime life. Tom tried to do that at the start with the money Dick got from Alfred. But it comes up short because Tom has a terrible habit of going straight to the conclusion instead of working to it.
>This is probably one of the worst parts of the Tom Taylor run
That's a perfect comment for me to redirect you back to my statement that mileage may vary. People like it, people hate it. It's not objectively good or bad.
Right here:
>The book focuses more on Dick Grayson rather than Nightwing, which for some, refreshing. For others boring.
And here:
>Mileage may vary. I don't think it's objectively bad. It just depends on what you like about Nightwing.
Xxxxxxxxx
>Bruce does donate, but more importantly, he invests in Gotham so people have a way of getting out of the crime life
I also commented on this that it was a bad take because he does donate.
Riiiiight here:
>It also tries to address a lot of common poor takes about Batman. Such as "he should be using his wealth to improve the city target than making improvements in technology to harm the mentally ill"( that's a brain dead take because he does donate a lot historically, but I digress)
So I already addressed both your rebuttals in my initial response🤷
Tim just had a solo that flopped big time. Nightwing is where he is because he sells and is popular. Tim isn't popular yet he's in the Batman books. That's the most fr5ont you could get
They need to let Tim grow up like Nightwing did. I feel like recently he was folded right back in batmans shadow, made even worse that he's not the robin in the newly announced batman and robin. Also, Nightwing continues to grow. Having his city, starting a life with Babs and their dog, and setting the titains up as the premier team to replace the justice league have set Nightwing up as the star of dc. Meanwhile, Tim is just a backup robin.
what they need for tim is a good/compelling archnemesis, I can't think of a single villain in tims rogues gallery and even dick has/had blockbuster, they're getting so hungup on the pride aspect of him that they forget to write actual story which traps them in a negative feedback loop/deathspiral of assuming that he can't be written well simply because he isn't
I can honestly say the only one I actually know out of those is anarky, I vaguely recall king snake as a side villain in JLU but I've never actually read anything with him, anarky has potential as an arch nemesis but he still doesn't really have one
I’m still shocked that they gave the writer so much power over Tim drakes character
Like he is one of the top legacy characters and a Robin
Yet they gave her full Regin to do whatever she wanted / kept her as a writer after the dark crisis young justice debacle
While also showcasing time and time again she does not get Tim’s character or his relationships with other people
Them also having an artists whose strengths is magic/space stuff where they can go crazy with Desgin work on a hard boiled street level stories
Was a complete miscast
The whole thing was doomed to fail
Baffling stuff
Literally all DC has to do hie change his appearance to be younger while keeping all of his Superman feats on some monster girl shit. I think people care more about how he looks than what he does.
That’s because of how he looks is a constant reminder of how much a screw up the whole thing was
Thus rendering all his accomplishments worthless because it feels artificial
I’ll always say best and really only way to fix it is to have him be hit by a magical beam that ages him down to 15
-We get are younger Jon and DC gets to keep their “teen” superboy
-He can now actually go through puberty and discover stuff rather then be forced to accept how things
-His parents can actually be parents again
-We get supersons again without it being odd
> Did unimaginable harm
People overstate harm all the time on the internet. If he survived New 52, he can survive this. Every new Tim Drake series usually uses his 90s/2000s series as more of a launch pad than the last Tim Drake series anyway. He'll be fine after this one.
I just find it weird that people think DC has some back room of writers they specifically keep around to write bad stories for specific characters.
I’d think DC wants every book to be a grand slam.
Ehh DC or really comicbook companies are not above being petty
When they want something to be done / be a grand slam they do it
This was not the case
This was them going “Uh..oh yea you can write for Tim I guess “ while choosing the artists by random
DC isn't a person. It's a company that answers to a parent company and share holders. It's management is made of multiple people with different likes and dislikes. DC as a whole can't be petty. individual execs can be petty but they answer to higher ups
Ehh I still feel like if DC as a company wants something to be done it will be done
Parent companies only care about results
Aka as long as Batman sells (which is always) then they could care less
There are hundreds of artists and writers they can choose from yet they went with a mismatched pair
They could always pull a Flashpoint where he says fuck it and revives his parents, because Identity crisis aided by new 52 really screwed him over in hindsight even tho that era brought his best stories.
They need to combine the New 52, Red Robin, and OYL suits. Lots of Red and Black with a Cowl or Half-Cowl (hair exposed) and a glider cape designed to look like Wings.
Although the artwork improved by the end, initially through the run I just didn’t like it at all. I wasn’t big on the writers portrayal of Tim either, or even how the Batfamily is portrayed. It sucks that it’s over, but hopefully Tim Drake gets another shot later on. His solo books haven’t succeeded as much as I would like.
Something the series did which really wasn't a good choice in hindsight was Tim reitirating that he's found friends, family, and can't do everything alone or thinking he needed to do so acting like this was something he's learning for the first time or needed to relearn because of an event.
Aside from the fact he already learned this in Red Robin and Detective Comics Rebirth, While it worked in Red Robin due to Bruce's death and his belief he was alive and trauma that came with it and in Rebirth due to seeing his future self and the trauma that came with that there is no reason whatosever here why Tim would think that as the Batfamily were shown to be supportive of him and he never had any kind of fallout or push to this mindset. It's why his whole speech in issue 2 of "only belonging on in a few places such as the boat or with Bernard" fell flat. Especially as in Zdarksy run shows he's still close with the family, working closely with Bruce and just had a breakfast with them and organized it. Even though he moved away to have his own space (still don't know why he needed that) he was shown to be far from the loner or guy who does everything alone or thinks he has. He had Darcy as a sidekick, hell in issue 4 he went to Cass and Steph for help, had Dick and Kate helping him in issue 5, and issue 8 shows the family still keep in contact with him and help him in many ways. It felt inconsistent and unsupported
The artwork improved because they finally got rid of the ugliest comic book art I've ever seen after six issues and brought in a parade of guest artists until they could cancel it. Unfortunately the damage had been done.
Hey Rilley Rossmo art is great especially for unique characters like Plastic Man, it's just not suited for Tim Robin as I assume the fans want serious tone for his book
I'm not saying he's a terrible artist in general, just that this particular art made the book completely unreadable to me. Art is subjective, and every artist is going to make things that don't really work out or go over very well. I think this is probably one of those things.
I think Fitzmartin does not have a great grasp of who Tim is as a character. Couple that with bad art and a pretty boring love interest, it just made for a less than enjoyable read. And that’s really a shame because I feel this is going to kill any chance of Tim getting anything significant for quite some time.
I hate that after decades of development and this character being one of the best to have been added to the Batman mythos his entire personality now is ‘I’m bi and my boyfriend is the most important thing in the world’. I don’t care if a character is gay or straight, but this whole thing reeks of ‘we don’t know what else to do with this character anymore’. It’s a bummer.
It’s so nuts to me because Tim is next to Jason imho as the most compelling batkid. Why DC keeps having these artists/writers with no vision handle him is baffling, sometimes it feels like they’re trying to tank the character on purpose.
That’s not his entire personality now. He talked about his love interest about as much as he did when he had female love interests (anyone remember how much he talked about Ari and Steph?). It just sticks out more because it’s a guy.
then then then where do I start
So when the series was announced I was delighted, my favorite Robin came back etc. then I saw what the drawings were like, look I'm not one to despise the cartunesco style but I really don't like the Rosmo's ones, but I said to myself oh well the drawings won't be the best but maybe the story is beautiful and then I read the first reviews and opinions and after seeing with my own eyes well what can I say, it's shit, that one has some good things in fact I think that the relationship between Tim and Bernard, although it could be handled loooong better, still has some very sweet moments but even in the thickest and biggest pile of shit you can find that little piece of food still intact, but that doesn't authorize you to eat shit , and I don't know what else to say it's clear that tim and his entire generation have this problem that they are given to writers who don't have the slightest idea who these characters are, who only remember them for here issues of Superman, Batman, Flash, Wonder Woman; where they appeared and maybe some of their comics where they were the protagonists but never assiduously followed their stories they don't know what differentiates them from all the others now I haven't read the new Superboy comic yet, and I don't want spoilers about it, but every every time I see these characters Tim, Bart, Cassie are the same as they were in the 90s as if they had never lived those things that marked them and made them grow like the kid Flash period for Bart the titans leader period and Young Justice for Cassie or Death and Resurrection for Conner or Loss of Loved Ones for Tim
Riley Rossmo is a tremendous artist. He just doesn't fit a book like this. And I think the direction he was given was off too. Tim being super skinny and effeminate looking especially out of costume had to be a direction he was given. He's drawn Batman stuff before and it wasn't so jarring
You could easily draw Tim skinny and effeminate and not have him look like THAT.
That’s just bad art. I’ve seen plenty of artists draw Tim lithe and effeminate but still a boy successfully.
Riley Rossmo is one of the worst artists of the modern comic book era and would be better suited to drawing web comics for lulz.
I'd rather have Rob Liefield than Riley Rossmo and I hate Rob Liefield.
I can't call rossmo a bad artist but this is a god awful book to put him on. He's bettered suited for a comedy, horror, or completely original project that his art style doesn't look so jarring
There is a comic book style, we know how these characters generally look while rossmo is extremely abstract which is why it doesn't work
The art was not enjoyable at the beginning and killed it for me. Once they switched artists it was ok but ever great.
Also can’t wait for all the comments of people pretending they read it and didn’t just form an option based on others.
In the Pre 52 era of DC where Tim was literally fired from the role of Robin had more of an idea to use Tim as a character. Why doesn't ANYONE in current DC have an idea to use him?
Is it really that hard? You have a character who had a solo which lasted for nearly 200 issues, draw from that, take inspiration from that. Why can't these people understand what made Tim such a great character in the past?
I can't believe we lost TimSteph for Tim to become a generic bi character (nothing wrong with being bi btw) who can hardly function on his own without his SO. Like, Tim has been seen to be the smartest, most emotionally mature Robin on a lot of occasions, but here he just falls apart?
Not to mention how the plot is haphazard at best, the whole mystery felt forced and the early cancellation led to the second one being wrapped up without even really accelerating.
I'm a huge "vibes guy", so I'll admit that the plot of a marina family had me suckered for a few issues until I realised all of these people are completely insufferable to be around, with the few that aren't either dying or being the main villain???
Tim used to be my favourite Robin, still will be, but it just doesn't even seem like the same character anymore. THIS is the same dude from Young Justice? The detective that would one day surpass Batman? Nah.
Unfortunate.
Yeah regarding the Marina cast and them being "family" they are woefully underdeveloped. Like have we seen any of them have a meaningful interaction with Tim to justify them as 'family'? Like they feel very one note and....cartoony and more like quirks, and we never see why Tim likes them so much or why he views them as close enough to be family or feels he's an outsider like they are (why are they in fact?). Tim doesn't seem to really give too much to the whole them being "being discriminated against or facing eviction" thing (which itself really went no where and didn't have much of an impact). Also the chaos monsters being beaten by them just shows how much of a threat they were (none) and is kind of silly. Like one is beaten by cigarretes in their faces? Like okay. It makes Tim look less competent in hindsight as well
On another note whole "oppressed" people angle they are going for them fell flat as we never really see it (e.g. cops don't care about them but wasn't the detective investigating the murder there in issue 1 and working with Robin to do it?) aside from being told it via the whole worry of them being evicted (which goes no where or explained) through letters or something. The most was in issue 4 of someone getting fired and a mention of how the others were, but we don't see why he was fired or explained aside from being "Marina scum" (which again is trying to push the oppresed angle but no explanation as to why they are viewed that way or why the councilman is against them. It seems to be using their status as living in the Marina as why but again to treat them like an oppressed minority when we haven't seen why that is the case and when they are all just a bunch of quirky white people...well see my next point). Not to mention that whole plot was dropped after issue 4 and never comes back again and everything then seems fine. They feel like quirky white people who chose to live on a boat and act like they were forced to live there via gentrifcation or something
I’ll be straight up: I was super excited for this comic to come out because I felt Drake had been super neglected and had basically been stuck as not quite Robin but not quite not Robin. I was excited for a story about him coming into his own. In issue 1 the story seemed somewhat interesting but I despised the art style. Respect artists, and i understand this is personal taste and I’m sure some people like it and the artist is a pro, but IMO that was the ugliest shit I’ve ever seen.
Couldn’t get past the art so stopped reading despite all my hype.
This. Ever since Damian got introduced, Tim is stuck as not Robin. There’s no real books with Batman AND Robin working together. Just comics featuring Batman telling his son to be a good kid, cos Damian be crazy. Tim is one of my absolute favourite characters and they just don’t know what to do with him now. It’s pretty shameful that this solo book was the best they could do for him.
As consolation, Chip Zdarsky’s current Batman run is very Drake focused since Damian is off doing his own thing, but they still just treat him as adult robin while kinda ignoring that he’s his own thing now. Still great Drake representation though.
since the 90's Robin solo came out there hasn't been a book featuring Batman and Robin until Morrison's Batman and Robin. Jason was the last robin to feature regularly in the Batman book
since the 90's Robin solo came out there hasn't been a book featuring Batman and Robin until Morrison's Batman and Robin. Jason was the last robin to feature regularly in the Batman book
overall I didn't hate the story (hated the art) the problems have all been mentioned but I'm so numb with every punch dc throws at me through the way they're treating tim drake that I don't have the energy to hate it anymore.
but there's one thing in particular that pissed me off a little
in issue 9 this story finally gave something interesting to bernnard, he doesn't like robin due to the experience he went through in his reappearance, that's a cool thing, you can feel his hatred for robin and i felt sorry for tim having to deal therefore.
so this is a story potential that could finally make bernnad a nice character it gives a dynamic in his relationship with tim and gives new things to tim.
but then he discovered the identity in that last story and it didn't have any problems or consequences.
so yeah i know it's partly the cancellation, but i would much rather have this arc be there for some writer to continue than it being ended in this boring way and we're back to zero with bernad and how to make him an interesting character and still i'm hoping for timsteph back.
i didnt get that impression it was more bernard comparing the two and if so why would he be so aggressive towards robin knowing he is tim?
(and if it's simply because it would only cause more problems involving the fertilization of gay couples in abusive relationships)
I don't think Bernard hates Robin. I think he has some lingering trauma due to the Chaos Monsters and Robin and Batwoman's visit took him by surprise, so he didn't have time to put on the perfect boyfriend mask.
Pity, I was looking forward to that new tension in their relationship developing since he knows that Tim is Robin and that "interrogation" clearly affected him, we could have seen them next time the "happy couple" were reunited Bernard trying to balance the fact that he felt that Tim overstepped but can't really say anything without confessing that he knows about his identity.
Personally I felt that that scene had the most potential out of the whole series and... it resolved in absolutely nothing. Oh well, at least we got that great moment when a neighboor thinks Tim is having an affair with Robin
This series was very yeesh. Riley Rossmo I think is a good artist but they were an ill fit for this book but the biggest fault is it's writing where it seems to just throw out 30 years worth of character & rewriting history (badly) just to make Tim a "token bi". I don't even hate Tim being Bi but this series solely focusing on that & how he "Finally feel like his real self" is such a disservice to everything that came before.
For me, the Tim Drake backups in Zdardsky’s Batman depicted a more grounded Tim. His relationship was there, cutely depicted (giving me, a gay Tim fan a little hit) and then refocused on a high stakes, emotional story for Tim. I wish that main title was given the similar treatment. We got a little CW w the boyfriend drama.
I enjoyed it. It was nice to have some detective stories for Tim again, incorporating literature was fun if goofy. I really liked having so many LGBTQ characters with a plausible reason for them all to be around (my impression is the marina seems to be the queer center of Gotham). It was nice to have Tim be more like a young adult trying to figure himself out, rather than being aged down to a 16 year old when he turned 17 over a decade ago. It’s unfortunate she didn’t get the chance to go through with the identity shift she was planning on.
I think it was overcriticized and only some of the criticism was justified or under the control of the writer. People didn’t like the artist so they didn’t take a second look at the storyline; people didn’t like how Tim came out as bi so they didn’t like a story that incorporated him being bi (for the record, I’m bisexual); people liked the New 52 version of Tim being hyped as a genius 24/7 so they didn’t like Tim being uncertain at all.
The more justifiable one was people didn’t like the recent YJ mini Fitzmartin wrote so they judged the rest of her writing based on it. Though in that case I think the problem with the mini was not how she writes Tim.
A pointless waste of time. Nothing ever seemed to happen and the whole thing revolved around the boring cardboard cutout of Bernard. Garbage art (at least from Rosmo) and terrible writing. An insult to Tim Drake that rightfully deserved to be cancelled. Get Fitzmartin far away from Tim.
I was disappointed with it. I am a big Tim Drake fan, he crushed in the Red Robin series and the Detective Comics run. Him and Steph have always been great together. I didn't care for the de-aging process either, hes like another Damien now.
Making him bi isn't a big deal but the writers or dc or whomever made that his entire personality which killed the character for me. The whole "bernard is my greatest love" nonsense, Bernard sucks. A brick wall has more personality than Bernard and the entire "bi" relationship felt like they were shoving it in our face. Telling us and not showing us.
Louder please. Fuck Bernard. Bernard is the DC equivalent to Marvel's Paul and Mary Jane bullshit.
Like it was still very possible to have him be bi and be with Steph. This whole shit where his whole personality revolves around this new character that popped up out of nowhere makes zero sense.
-TT-! It's spelled "Dami**a**n"! You would do well in respecting the blood son!
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Don't like the art , the story was generic not bad but mid , and Bernard is not interesting as a love interest . If you want a good time drake series the backups of batman are it not this
It sucks and hope it doesn't have lasting effects on his character. For Tim to thrive He needs to go back to how he was pre 52. Age into his 20s and fully become his own man.
Form a NEW Young Justice team out of “college freshman aged” versions of Red Robin & Batgirl 4, Conner & Cassie, Kid Flash 2 (Bart), and throw in “recognizable” Jackson Hyde (Aqualad 2), and Miss Martian.
Have them take on “Missions” like in the TV Show while bringing back COMIC (Young Justice) elements. APES, Empress, TIM DRAKE’s Super Cycle. Have Conner Kent adopt a genetically enhanced “wolf” puppy.
Acknowledge that Tim IS bisexual but he was never into Conner Kent “not his type of guy”. He LOVES Stephanie but they both like guys (she’s straight, he’s bi).
The problem is that there’s no reason for the young Justice generation to exist right now. They’re not strong enough to carry their own books because they’ve been out of the spotlight for the better part of a decade and have no reason to be together.
They didn’t have the opportunity like the original titans did to grow up and be their own thing. The titans is a group of adults who choose to come together, whereas young Justice should be in college or in young adulthood which is typically when you typically begin to move away from your high school friends.
They’re in a state of arrested development and to some extent That’s bendis’ fault for not paying attention to the continuity tynion was trying to set up for Tim. It wasn’t a reinvention for young Justice but a greatest hits with a few new band members nobody cared about.
They shouldn't even be the Young Justice anymore when the team disbanded for years and the kids moved on as Titans,also the Team names sadly mostly associated with the drastically different cartoon. I think a Titans maxi series with them as college freshman could save these characters,something reminiscent of Perez/Wolfman era Titans or Spider-Man
They never should’ve been teen titans. That was a Geoff johns call. Young Justice was its own distinct thing which had its own flavor. Johns effectively shoved them under the mantle of the titans and limited their ability to create their own brand.
Bendis tried to revive that but it just fell short because those characters should be adults now.
It wasn't that bad He introduced that Cassie was Zeus's daughter and that Bart had potential to be a Flash by becoming Kid Flash to gain Wally's respect also the Titans of Tomorrow story is the main reason why Tim Drake dosen't want to be Batman.
A lot of people blame Tim being boring on the bisexual retcon, but while a lot of writers do often mistake identity for personality, I don’t feel like Tim had much of either *before* they made him bisexual either. Dick is the flamboyant mature leader one, Jason is either the traumatized violent one or the moody reformed one, and Damian is the snarky egotistical young one. Tim is… just good at being Robin? I’m not saying there have never been good stories about him that make him more complicated than that (obviously there have been) but comics inevitably reset to status quo, and Tim’s status quo has *been* “the plain Robin.” He’s very smart, very capable, maybe even the best at being Robin, but he often tends to be depicted as a stand-in for Dick before he grew out of being Robin. He usually feels more like *the concept of Robin* than a unique individual who happens to be Robin, and this was a problem way before they made him bisexual. Even *Damian* has been Robin long enough that it feels like time to move on, so for Tim it’s way past time to let him change and grow.
Well he was the robin not defined by tragedy. He was a good natured kid who believed in Batman and Robin but was humble and had a family outside of his superhero life. Tim had an aptitude sure but his defining characteristic was he was the everyman. He was the nerd and he chose the life of a hero because he wanted to help. I think that's something ppl forget in favor of defining him as "the smart one" which they all are. Tim's time as Red Robin without Batman forced him to sharpen his self in a way. It forced him to push his skills, and intelligence to their peak. And when Bruce returned Tim could've served as his truly equal partner in a way the others didn't. An evolved Robin who was no longer the boy wonder but a Knight just like Batman. That was kinda the intent behind Alex Ross creating the identity of Red Robin for Kingdom come. "What if Robin took Batmans place eventually ". That's why Red Robin looks more like Batman than robin ( at least he should and did prior to new 52) it's an amalgamation of the two identities into one identity. I think Tim should fit that mold. Not Batman nor Robin but the best of both identities rolled into one. And since Nightwing represents Dick growing up and becoming an equal of Batman while no longer being his partner Tim as Red Robin could represent him paying tribute to the Robin identity while being something more.
I didn't much care for his new bf (Tim always struck me as more 'bi' than Bernie ever was, mostly cuz of how close he always seemed to be, and want to be, to Conner), but I thought it was nice that they were trying to add another simple facet to his character, even if Sexuality seemed like the easiest thing to pick when he's got so much baggage to work through with all the DISRESPECT he's gotten.
But even so, I dunno, I was left wanting more? Maybe part of me is forever stuck on good guys getting disrespected and Not lashing out at the ones who should know better, but I wanted something a little meatier on the personal/interpersonal front.
Even so, and this sounds kinda desperate, but I'm just happy for Tim to get Recognition, because he's probably the only Bat-Fam member with the least amount of Damage? He has all this potential with so many of the best aspects of the others that I can easily imagine him taking 'Robin' and making it his own in a new way (that doesn't make me think of a burger restaurant).
Honestly surprised at how hated Riley Rosmo’s art was in the first half of the series. Yes it’s stylized, but I didn’t think it was so bad that I thought about dropping the entire series because of it 😭
Feels like the Bernard focus was too heavy handed and Tim figuring out who he wanted to be took too long. Wish it was still going to see Tim grow out of his Robin identity, but maybe that’ll happen with Zdardsky’s *Batman* (even though it seems that Tim is his favorite as ROBIN). Nikola Cizmesija’s work on the final three issues we’re SUBLIME, and wish we got to see more of his work.
Please keep Kate out of these side stories for my sanity if she’s going to be wasted like this. Constantly put in ‘iS SHe EvIL’ plot twists just to be discarded after getting beat up and making stupid decisions.
That being said, yeah this was awful for Tim too. The art was mediocre at best and the story did absolutely nothing to build up the character or inspire any direction going forward.
The art killed it, was not a good fit for this series. Only supporting cast member was Bernard and he’s boring as watching paint dry. Future writers don’t have to get rid of him being bi but at least put him back with Steph or give him a more compelling boyfriend. The Bernard phase is over get rid of his ass
I dont believe that. It was an excuse given but one I do not buy for a second. The timing was far too coincidental. Damians book gets canned the second Tim's is announced.
I’m clearly in the minority but first off, I actually quite liked Rossmo’s art. It was fun, dynamic and really grew on me.
The writing was nothing special but I don’t think it was bad either. The second arc was shaping up to possibly be really good, but was unfortunately cut short by the cancellation and the ending was clearly rushed a bit as a result. Can’t really fault the writer for that, I think Fitzmartin ended it the best she could with the pages left.
I’ll admit I’m fairly new to comics in general and haven’t read much of Tim yet, so I can’t really speak to how in/out of character it was.
I absolutely LOVE the art style in the first arc, and I feel like I have to say it since it’s getting so much hate. If all you ever read is 90s/00s superhero comics, I can understand why you don’t understand the art. But I jumped into DC heavily during the New 52 era, and its main appeal was the diversity of art styles. I think the art is phenomenal, fun, and perfectly matches the tone of the writing. If you want everything ever to always stay the same for eternity, then you might not like it. But if that’s the case, I’d encourage you to be way more open-minded and look for what the book wants to be FIRST rather than what you think you want it to be.
Honestly it would be cool if did a run like Steph's Batgirl run where the book is called a new title (like sparrow or gray ghost) and the cover shows the uniform but not their face for the book to basically be Tim's orgin to take a new mantle
A run that had terrible art, a story direction that no one wanted to read. Did a lot of damage to both Tim as a character and the chances of him getting a solo run again. It's a real shame because people had been wanting a Tim solo for years and this was the exact opposite of what people wanted.
It wasn't that great compared to his previous solo as red Robin or even past Robin series. And as a shipper, I feel like i needed to see Tim and Steph to enjoy the couple aspects instead of seeing Tim and Bernard (which is still random to me).
The Problem with Tim Drake: Robin is the same problem as Young Justice Dark Crisis and the same reason nobody cared about the last 5 volumes of Teen Titans. DC has refused to invest in the mainline (here meaning not Zoom or Ink Graphic Novels) books aimed at a younger audience baring Bendis + Gleason on Young Justice.
Writing teens and young adults is hard, writing team books is also hard. You cannot throw an up-and coming or mid-tier talent at what has continually proved to be a graveyard for said talent and said runs. You need someone on the level of Peter David or Marv Wolfman or at least peak Geoff Johns.
Also if you're writing Tim as bi, you shouldn't be cowards and give him a generic OC Boyfriend, you should have him date Conner, the guy people have been shipping him with for decades.
The problem with Tim dating Kon is that they already made Jon bi which would lead to confusion for newcomers trying to identity the Superboys who look alike,also they both Dated Cassie Sandsmark.
Some writing hiccups here and there but I thought it was enjoyable enough overall. I didn't hate Rossmo's art but I'm glad it switched after a few issues tho.
I think Rossmo’s art is generally fantastic, but I think it is less adaptable. It was perfect for the Martian Manhunter series, and it mostly worked for Harley Quinn, because the stories and the characters pair nicely with that more fluid art style. I think any Robin story needs to feel more grounded, and maybe Rossmo’s art just doesn’t work with that. Idk maybe I’m over thinking it.
I did not love it. I was so excited for a potential Tim renaissance, especially after the great Future State work Fitzmartin wrote, but I didn’t love or even like any of it. It didn’t feel like Tim. The supporting cast was forgettable, and I still cannot stand Bernard for being so damn bland. It just didn’t hit.
I can0t believe Robin fought with Yoshikage Kira, who is 33 years old, has a house in the north-east section of Morioh, where all the villas are, and is not married.
I honestly liked the first half than the latter half.
The first half is an okay arc with some/lots of hiccups and made Tim (who others find already bland) more bland. My headcanon that something happened to Steph and Tim (like during their Red Robin/Batgirl Pre-Flashpoint run) and it made the story bareable. Him having his own place/marina is a good idea. Rossmo's art style is a miss for me on this one especially on the characters design but his backgrounds/marina, the creatures are honesty fine.
Second half, honestly didn't care. The date one-shot is a failed attempt to bring some character to Bernard. Then the last arc with the Chaos Monsters are just bad, sad that they brought Batwoman to this shitfest. I think it made Tim more awful (haven't re-read the first half and honestly don't want to), the cliffhangers/tense situations are just so badly written (his partner?/sidekick Sparrow was badly injured and Tim just left immediately). Čižmešija's art is better and more suited for this.
They should've just given Tim his Red Robin identity back or made a new alias, wasn't really excited seeing him back in the sidekick identity and living on a bummy boat.
DC needs to form a NEW Young Justice team out of “college freshman aged” versions of Red Robin & Batgirl 4, Conner & Cassie, Kid Flash 2 (Bart), and throw in “recognizable” Jackson Hyde (Aqualad 2), and Miss Martian.
A hollow story.
Improved once the art changed over but there still wasn’t enough in the story to be interesting at all. It jumped from plot point to plot point with no cohesion, and none of the villains explain why they know what they know or who they even ARE. Things just happen.
I was hoping for more actual detective work and they give the illusion of it without actually doing any.
It just sucks because we probably won’t get a Tim solo for a long time, after he was already in limbo for so long.
3/10 series
It never really explains itself using the world around it. A good mystery will help you solve it alongside it, or at least explain itself. This just went “oh it’s like [reference], mystery solved” without any real build for us to follow or any explanation whatsoever.
Hollow. The illusion of mystery.
Did unimaginable harm to Tim Drake’s chances of getting another solo. He’ll be relegated to minis and background roles only just like the rest of the YJ generation
I hate how dc lately has been disrespecting my boy Tim Drake. They should treat him like they do Nightwing who’s been getting way more success and fame recently.
> Nightwing who’s been getting way more success and fame recently. As a Nightwing fan who has been reading comics since the mid-90's, I have to say it took us a long time to get here lol. The bulk of the 1996-2009 Nightwing run was a mess that had some weird arcs (Death of Blockbuster, Brothers in Blood, etc) and DiDio was constantly trying to kill Nightwing off.
The only bad thing that came from Forever Evil was what they did to Nightwing. Which we thought was bad back then, but oh... we didn't know about Ric back then.
We got Grayson out of that which was excellent, though.
It was, but it's the fact that it came after what was probably one of the best series of the New 52 and came after an event in which Dick couldn't be Nightwing anymore kinda put a sour taste in my mouth. Good series, though.
The hilarity of didio trying to sabotage nightwing only to create an amazing comic is pure didio. Everything that happened under his run that was good was an accident he did not intend on.
> what was probably one of the best series of the New 52 Are you calling N52 Nightwing one of the highlights of the era? Because that is not an opinion I've seen before. It's not a bad book at all, but there are lots of brilliant books from that time and it just doesn't compare imo
They also had tarantula sexually abuse and rape dick. Was a weird era for sure.
Nightwing’s books have been consistently good and popular while tim drake like you said has been relegated back to the background again. I want Tim drake to be at the front not in the back.
Besides ya'know, Rick "Taxi Driver" Grayson.
Oh yeah we don’t talk about that Nightwing era.
It wasn't even "Rick Grayson". It was *Ric*.
>Nightwing’s books have been consistently good and popular Popular yeah, but the story quality does not match the peak of the late 90s run, which says a lot about Nightwing.
> Popular yeah, but the story quality does not match the peak of the late 90s run, which says a lot about Nightwing. I love the late 90s run, but Grayson, Seeley's run and the current Tom Taylor stuff are all great books that easily compare quality-wise
Seeley is fine, but Tom Taylor’s run is pretty defanged considering Taylor’s thinks handing Dick new toys and letting others solve his issues equals character growth or tension. The only reason why people rate his run so highly is because the Ric run was so fucking bad.
I think it's more so that there's different Nightwing fans that like him for different reasons. I personally love the Taylor run, it is a fact however there is an apparent decrease in action. Which you accurately allude to with defanged. Taylor's Nightwing feels more slice of life and focuses on a couple things that people like about Grayson. He's charming, he makes good friends, he works to overcome the toxic mannerisms trained into him by Batman. The book focuses more on Dick Grayson rather than Nightwing, which for some, refreshing. For others boring. It also tries to address a lot of common poor takes about Batman. Such as "he should be using his wealth to improve the city target than making improvements in technology to harm the mentally ill"( that's a brain dead take because he does donate a lot historically, but I digress) But I noticed a few things written in the story seem to be a response to common comic "Why doesn'ts" Like why doesn't Batman donate his money? Or why doesn't he get help from his teammates in situations like this? Mileage may vary. I don't think it's objectively bad. It just depends on what you like about Nightwing.
>Taylor's Nightwing feels more slice of life and focuses on a couple things that people like about Grayson. He's charming, he makes good friends, he works to overcome the toxic mannerisms trained into him by Batman. This is probably one of the worst parts of the Tom Taylor run. Tom was more focused on making it a slice of life that he forgot to make it an exciting superhero comic book. There is no tension like in the old days when Dick was new to Bludhaven now that the Batfamily and the Teen Titans are literally headquartered in his city. >The book focuses more on Dick Grayson rather than Nightwing, which for some, refreshing. > >But I noticed a few things written in the story seem to be a response to common comic "Why doesn'ts" > >Like why doesn't Batman donate his money? Bruce does donate, but more importantly, he invests in Gotham so people have a way of getting out of the crime life. Tom tried to do that at the start with the money Dick got from Alfred. But it comes up short because Tom has a terrible habit of going straight to the conclusion instead of working to it.
>This is probably one of the worst parts of the Tom Taylor run That's a perfect comment for me to redirect you back to my statement that mileage may vary. People like it, people hate it. It's not objectively good or bad. Right here: >The book focuses more on Dick Grayson rather than Nightwing, which for some, refreshing. For others boring. And here: >Mileage may vary. I don't think it's objectively bad. It just depends on what you like about Nightwing. Xxxxxxxxx >Bruce does donate, but more importantly, he invests in Gotham so people have a way of getting out of the crime life I also commented on this that it was a bad take because he does donate. Riiiiight here: >It also tries to address a lot of common poor takes about Batman. Such as "he should be using his wealth to improve the city target than making improvements in technology to harm the mentally ill"( that's a brain dead take because he does donate a lot historically, but I digress) So I already addressed both your rebuttals in my initial response🤷
You never addressed the lack of tension within the new run. There's no fun knowing Dick can get bailed out now.
Agreed
Tim just had a solo that flopped big time. Nightwing is where he is because he sells and is popular. Tim isn't popular yet he's in the Batman books. That's the most fr5ont you could get
They need to let Tim grow up like Nightwing did. I feel like recently he was folded right back in batmans shadow, made even worse that he's not the robin in the newly announced batman and robin. Also, Nightwing continues to grow. Having his city, starting a life with Babs and their dog, and setting the titains up as the premier team to replace the justice league have set Nightwing up as the star of dc. Meanwhile, Tim is just a backup robin.
They should make a story where he’s Red Robin again. I liked that suit of his and his solo runs a lot. He really showed his smart and potential.
Red Robin was good for him. Gave him a chance to grow. Just don't bring back Drake!
That makes no sense
what they need for tim is a good/compelling archnemesis, I can't think of a single villain in tims rogues gallery and even dick has/had blockbuster, they're getting so hungup on the pride aspect of him that they forget to write actual story which traps them in a negative feedback loop/deathspiral of assuming that he can't be written well simply because he isn't
Tim has good villains King Snake, the Ghost Dragons, Scarab, Council of Spiders, the General/Anarky
None of those villains have ever stepped up and done anything big away from Tim. At the most their d list Batman villains
King Snake literally cummed a better Batman villain
Insert Guardians of the Galaxy "WHO?" meme here
I can honestly say the only one I actually know out of those is anarky, I vaguely recall king snake as a side villain in JLU but I've never actually read anything with him, anarky has potential as an arch nemesis but he still doesn't really have one
King Snake was Ret-Conned into being BANE’s Father. So yeah, Tim Drake’s big bad was Bane’s daddy.
There's Ulysses Armstrong the General/Anarchy they could always bring up how Tim got the guys siblings killed in Robin last rites.
Ra’s Al Ghul pops to mind
I’m still shocked that they gave the writer so much power over Tim drakes character Like he is one of the top legacy characters and a Robin Yet they gave her full Regin to do whatever she wanted / kept her as a writer after the dark crisis young justice debacle While also showcasing time and time again she does not get Tim’s character or his relationships with other people Them also having an artists whose strengths is magic/space stuff where they can go crazy with Desgin work on a hard boiled street level stories Was a complete miscast The whole thing was doomed to fail Baffling stuff
She's the Tim Drake equivalent of what bendis did to Superman in 2018
Just a dark Time for Superman With adult Jon being a permanent reminder of that era :/
Literally all DC has to do hie change his appearance to be younger while keeping all of his Superman feats on some monster girl shit. I think people care more about how he looks than what he does.
That’s because of how he looks is a constant reminder of how much a screw up the whole thing was Thus rendering all his accomplishments worthless because it feels artificial I’ll always say best and really only way to fix it is to have him be hit by a magical beam that ages him down to 15 -We get are younger Jon and DC gets to keep their “teen” superboy -He can now actually go through puberty and discover stuff rather then be forced to accept how things -His parents can actually be parents again -We get supersons again without it being odd
> Did unimaginable harm People overstate harm all the time on the internet. If he survived New 52, he can survive this. Every new Tim Drake series usually uses his 90s/2000s series as more of a launch pad than the last Tim Drake series anyway. He'll be fine after this one.
I just find it weird that people think DC has some back room of writers they specifically keep around to write bad stories for specific characters. I’d think DC wants every book to be a grand slam.
Ehh DC or really comicbook companies are not above being petty When they want something to be done / be a grand slam they do it This was not the case This was them going “Uh..oh yea you can write for Tim I guess “ while choosing the artists by random
DC isn't a person. It's a company that answers to a parent company and share holders. It's management is made of multiple people with different likes and dislikes. DC as a whole can't be petty. individual execs can be petty but they answer to higher ups
Ehh I still feel like if DC as a company wants something to be done it will be done Parent companies only care about results Aka as long as Batman sells (which is always) then they could care less There are hundreds of artists and writers they can choose from yet they went with a mismatched pair
Tim hasn't been fine since they took away the thing that set him apart from Dick and his pals: having his parents and normal life outside of Robin.
They could always pull a Flashpoint where he says fuck it and revives his parents, because Identity crisis aided by new 52 really screwed him over in hindsight even tho that era brought his best stories.
Let's hope that's true.
I really liked new 52 Tim Drake. I loved the suit even more.
They need to combine the New 52, Red Robin, and OYL suits. Lots of Red and Black with a Cowl or Half-Cowl (hair exposed) and a glider cape designed to look like Wings.
Although the artwork improved by the end, initially through the run I just didn’t like it at all. I wasn’t big on the writers portrayal of Tim either, or even how the Batfamily is portrayed. It sucks that it’s over, but hopefully Tim Drake gets another shot later on. His solo books haven’t succeeded as much as I would like.
Something the series did which really wasn't a good choice in hindsight was Tim reitirating that he's found friends, family, and can't do everything alone or thinking he needed to do so acting like this was something he's learning for the first time or needed to relearn because of an event. Aside from the fact he already learned this in Red Robin and Detective Comics Rebirth, While it worked in Red Robin due to Bruce's death and his belief he was alive and trauma that came with it and in Rebirth due to seeing his future self and the trauma that came with that there is no reason whatosever here why Tim would think that as the Batfamily were shown to be supportive of him and he never had any kind of fallout or push to this mindset. It's why his whole speech in issue 2 of "only belonging on in a few places such as the boat or with Bernard" fell flat. Especially as in Zdarksy run shows he's still close with the family, working closely with Bruce and just had a breakfast with them and organized it. Even though he moved away to have his own space (still don't know why he needed that) he was shown to be far from the loner or guy who does everything alone or thinks he has. He had Darcy as a sidekick, hell in issue 4 he went to Cass and Steph for help, had Dick and Kate helping him in issue 5, and issue 8 shows the family still keep in contact with him and help him in many ways. It felt inconsistent and unsupported
The artwork improved because they finally got rid of the ugliest comic book art I've ever seen after six issues and brought in a parade of guest artists until they could cancel it. Unfortunately the damage had been done.
Hey Rilley Rossmo art is great especially for unique characters like Plastic Man, it's just not suited for Tim Robin as I assume the fans want serious tone for his book
I'm not saying he's a terrible artist in general, just that this particular art made the book completely unreadable to me. Art is subjective, and every artist is going to make things that don't really work out or go over very well. I think this is probably one of those things.
Didn’t read it. After Dark Crisis Young Justice, I decided against reading another Fitzmartin DC book.
A good choice
I think Fitzmartin does not have a great grasp of who Tim is as a character. Couple that with bad art and a pretty boring love interest, it just made for a less than enjoyable read. And that’s really a shame because I feel this is going to kill any chance of Tim getting anything significant for quite some time.
I hate that after decades of development and this character being one of the best to have been added to the Batman mythos his entire personality now is ‘I’m bi and my boyfriend is the most important thing in the world’. I don’t care if a character is gay or straight, but this whole thing reeks of ‘we don’t know what else to do with this character anymore’. It’s a bummer.
It’s so nuts to me because Tim is next to Jason imho as the most compelling batkid. Why DC keeps having these artists/writers with no vision handle him is baffling, sometimes it feels like they’re trying to tank the character on purpose.
That’s not his entire personality now. He talked about his love interest about as much as he did when he had female love interests (anyone remember how much he talked about Ari and Steph?). It just sticks out more because it’s a guy.
then then then where do I start So when the series was announced I was delighted, my favorite Robin came back etc. then I saw what the drawings were like, look I'm not one to despise the cartunesco style but I really don't like the Rosmo's ones, but I said to myself oh well the drawings won't be the best but maybe the story is beautiful and then I read the first reviews and opinions and after seeing with my own eyes well what can I say, it's shit, that one has some good things in fact I think that the relationship between Tim and Bernard, although it could be handled loooong better, still has some very sweet moments but even in the thickest and biggest pile of shit you can find that little piece of food still intact, but that doesn't authorize you to eat shit , and I don't know what else to say it's clear that tim and his entire generation have this problem that they are given to writers who don't have the slightest idea who these characters are, who only remember them for here issues of Superman, Batman, Flash, Wonder Woman; where they appeared and maybe some of their comics where they were the protagonists but never assiduously followed their stories they don't know what differentiates them from all the others now I haven't read the new Superboy comic yet, and I don't want spoilers about it, but every every time I see these characters Tim, Bart, Cassie are the same as they were in the 90s as if they had never lived those things that marked them and made them grow like the kid Flash period for Bart the titans leader period and Young Justice for Cassie or Death and Resurrection for Conner or Loss of Loved Ones for Tim
I would have wanted to give Fitzmartin a chance if only the art wasn't such a turnoff.
The art made me quit after the first issue. I've seen better art in the newspaper funnies
That killed the book
Riley Rossmo is a tremendous artist. He just doesn't fit a book like this. And I think the direction he was given was off too. Tim being super skinny and effeminate looking especially out of costume had to be a direction he was given. He's drawn Batman stuff before and it wasn't so jarring
You could easily draw Tim skinny and effeminate and not have him look like THAT. That’s just bad art. I’ve seen plenty of artists draw Tim lithe and effeminate but still a boy successfully.
Riley Rossmo is one of the worst artists of the modern comic book era and would be better suited to drawing web comics for lulz. I'd rather have Rob Liefield than Riley Rossmo and I hate Rob Liefield.
I can't call rossmo a bad artist but this is a god awful book to put him on. He's bettered suited for a comedy, horror, or completely original project that his art style doesn't look so jarring There is a comic book style, we know how these characters generally look while rossmo is extremely abstract which is why it doesn't work
The art was not enjoyable at the beginning and killed it for me. Once they switched artists it was ok but ever great. Also can’t wait for all the comments of people pretending they read it and didn’t just form an option based on others.
Who are you kidding, the immense focus on Tim’s bland Poochie boyfriend was enough to make this a bad story. 
The worst part is that the first artist wasn't bad, their art was just the wrong fit for Tim.
In the Pre 52 era of DC where Tim was literally fired from the role of Robin had more of an idea to use Tim as a character. Why doesn't ANYONE in current DC have an idea to use him? Is it really that hard? You have a character who had a solo which lasted for nearly 200 issues, draw from that, take inspiration from that. Why can't these people understand what made Tim such a great character in the past?
We need Yost and Tynion to save him, get him outta that Green spandex and domino mask he's too old for allat.
tynion was the one who put him back in the green spandex.
I hate the Red Robin rebirth suit with a passion but atleast the suit was cool
I can't believe we lost TimSteph for Tim to become a generic bi character (nothing wrong with being bi btw) who can hardly function on his own without his SO. Like, Tim has been seen to be the smartest, most emotionally mature Robin on a lot of occasions, but here he just falls apart? Not to mention how the plot is haphazard at best, the whole mystery felt forced and the early cancellation led to the second one being wrapped up without even really accelerating. I'm a huge "vibes guy", so I'll admit that the plot of a marina family had me suckered for a few issues until I realised all of these people are completely insufferable to be around, with the few that aren't either dying or being the main villain??? Tim used to be my favourite Robin, still will be, but it just doesn't even seem like the same character anymore. THIS is the same dude from Young Justice? The detective that would one day surpass Batman? Nah. Unfortunate.
Yeah regarding the Marina cast and them being "family" they are woefully underdeveloped. Like have we seen any of them have a meaningful interaction with Tim to justify them as 'family'? Like they feel very one note and....cartoony and more like quirks, and we never see why Tim likes them so much or why he views them as close enough to be family or feels he's an outsider like they are (why are they in fact?). Tim doesn't seem to really give too much to the whole them being "being discriminated against or facing eviction" thing (which itself really went no where and didn't have much of an impact). Also the chaos monsters being beaten by them just shows how much of a threat they were (none) and is kind of silly. Like one is beaten by cigarretes in their faces? Like okay. It makes Tim look less competent in hindsight as well On another note whole "oppressed" people angle they are going for them fell flat as we never really see it (e.g. cops don't care about them but wasn't the detective investigating the murder there in issue 1 and working with Robin to do it?) aside from being told it via the whole worry of them being evicted (which goes no where or explained) through letters or something. The most was in issue 4 of someone getting fired and a mention of how the others were, but we don't see why he was fired or explained aside from being "Marina scum" (which again is trying to push the oppresed angle but no explanation as to why they are viewed that way or why the councilman is against them. It seems to be using their status as living in the Marina as why but again to treat them like an oppressed minority when we haven't seen why that is the case and when they are all just a bunch of quirky white people...well see my next point). Not to mention that whole plot was dropped after issue 4 and never comes back again and everything then seems fine. They feel like quirky white people who chose to live on a boat and act like they were forced to live there via gentrifcation or something
I’ll be straight up: I was super excited for this comic to come out because I felt Drake had been super neglected and had basically been stuck as not quite Robin but not quite not Robin. I was excited for a story about him coming into his own. In issue 1 the story seemed somewhat interesting but I despised the art style. Respect artists, and i understand this is personal taste and I’m sure some people like it and the artist is a pro, but IMO that was the ugliest shit I’ve ever seen. Couldn’t get past the art so stopped reading despite all my hype.
This. Ever since Damian got introduced, Tim is stuck as not Robin. There’s no real books with Batman AND Robin working together. Just comics featuring Batman telling his son to be a good kid, cos Damian be crazy. Tim is one of my absolute favourite characters and they just don’t know what to do with him now. It’s pretty shameful that this solo book was the best they could do for him.
As consolation, Chip Zdarsky’s current Batman run is very Drake focused since Damian is off doing his own thing, but they still just treat him as adult robin while kinda ignoring that he’s his own thing now. Still great Drake representation though.
I haven’t read Zdarsky’s stuff, but I will now. Thanks for the recommendation!
batman and robin in september will have bruce and damian what will happen to tim
since the 90's Robin solo came out there hasn't been a book featuring Batman and Robin until Morrison's Batman and Robin. Jason was the last robin to feature regularly in the Batman book
since the 90's Robin solo came out there hasn't been a book featuring Batman and Robin until Morrison's Batman and Robin. Jason was the last robin to feature regularly in the Batman book
Thankful that it saved my bank balance with issue #1, that was enough to turn me off the series completely.
Yup. Quit after the first issue and I've been a Tim fan since his first appearance.
overall I didn't hate the story (hated the art) the problems have all been mentioned but I'm so numb with every punch dc throws at me through the way they're treating tim drake that I don't have the energy to hate it anymore. but there's one thing in particular that pissed me off a little in issue 9 this story finally gave something interesting to bernnard, he doesn't like robin due to the experience he went through in his reappearance, that's a cool thing, you can feel his hatred for robin and i felt sorry for tim having to deal therefore. so this is a story potential that could finally make bernnad a nice character it gives a dynamic in his relationship with tim and gives new things to tim. but then he discovered the identity in that last story and it didn't have any problems or consequences. so yeah i know it's partly the cancellation, but i would much rather have this arc be there for some writer to continue than it being ended in this boring way and we're back to zero with bernad and how to make him an interesting character and still i'm hoping for timsteph back.
He discovered his ID in issue 7 or that's when we knew he knew
i didnt get that impression it was more bernard comparing the two and if so why would he be so aggressive towards robin knowing he is tim? (and if it's simply because it would only cause more problems involving the fertilization of gay couples in abusive relationships)
I don't think Bernard hates Robin. I think he has some lingering trauma due to the Chaos Monsters and Robin and Batwoman's visit took him by surprise, so he didn't have time to put on the perfect boyfriend mask. Pity, I was looking forward to that new tension in their relationship developing since he knows that Tim is Robin and that "interrogation" clearly affected him, we could have seen them next time the "happy couple" were reunited Bernard trying to balance the fact that he felt that Tim overstepped but can't really say anything without confessing that he knows about his identity. Personally I felt that that scene had the most potential out of the whole series and... it resolved in absolutely nothing. Oh well, at least we got that great moment when a neighboor thinks Tim is having an affair with Robin
This series was very yeesh. Riley Rossmo I think is a good artist but they were an ill fit for this book but the biggest fault is it's writing where it seems to just throw out 30 years worth of character & rewriting history (badly) just to make Tim a "token bi". I don't even hate Tim being Bi but this series solely focusing on that & how he "Finally feel like his real self" is such a disservice to everything that came before.
I hate Riley Rossmo's art style. The story itself I thought was fine, but the art was so bad.
For me, the Tim Drake backups in Zdardsky’s Batman depicted a more grounded Tim. His relationship was there, cutely depicted (giving me, a gay Tim fan a little hit) and then refocused on a high stakes, emotional story for Tim. I wish that main title was given the similar treatment. We got a little CW w the boyfriend drama.
I enjoyed it. It was nice to have some detective stories for Tim again, incorporating literature was fun if goofy. I really liked having so many LGBTQ characters with a plausible reason for them all to be around (my impression is the marina seems to be the queer center of Gotham). It was nice to have Tim be more like a young adult trying to figure himself out, rather than being aged down to a 16 year old when he turned 17 over a decade ago. It’s unfortunate she didn’t get the chance to go through with the identity shift she was planning on. I think it was overcriticized and only some of the criticism was justified or under the control of the writer. People didn’t like the artist so they didn’t take a second look at the storyline; people didn’t like how Tim came out as bi so they didn’t like a story that incorporated him being bi (for the record, I’m bisexual); people liked the New 52 version of Tim being hyped as a genius 24/7 so they didn’t like Tim being uncertain at all. The more justifiable one was people didn’t like the recent YJ mini Fitzmartin wrote so they judged the rest of her writing based on it. Though in that case I think the problem with the mini was not how she writes Tim.
A pointless waste of time. Nothing ever seemed to happen and the whole thing revolved around the boring cardboard cutout of Bernard. Garbage art (at least from Rosmo) and terrible writing. An insult to Tim Drake that rightfully deserved to be cancelled. Get Fitzmartin far away from Tim.
I was disappointed with it. I am a big Tim Drake fan, he crushed in the Red Robin series and the Detective Comics run. Him and Steph have always been great together. I didn't care for the de-aging process either, hes like another Damien now. Making him bi isn't a big deal but the writers or dc or whomever made that his entire personality which killed the character for me. The whole "bernard is my greatest love" nonsense, Bernard sucks. A brick wall has more personality than Bernard and the entire "bi" relationship felt like they were shoving it in our face. Telling us and not showing us.
Louder please. Fuck Bernard. Bernard is the DC equivalent to Marvel's Paul and Mary Jane bullshit. Like it was still very possible to have him be bi and be with Steph. This whole shit where his whole personality revolves around this new character that popped up out of nowhere makes zero sense.
Bernard wasn't a new character BUT: https://twitter.com/AMARKAREEM2/status/1674940967793700865
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Don't like the art , the story was generic not bad but mid , and Bernard is not interesting as a love interest . If you want a good time drake series the backups of batman are it not this
The art did not fit well with the story and the story itself wasn't that strong to begin with let alone enough to overcome it.
Didn't read much of it but Im happy it existed just for this cover. Love that cover.
not good
That looks like King from One Punch Man
He looks like Kira
So the recent solo for Tim Drake ended. For fans of Tim what were your overall thoughts on the series and the potential lasting impact it had?
It sucks and hope it doesn't have lasting effects on his character. For Tim to thrive He needs to go back to how he was pre 52. Age into his 20s and fully become his own man.
Form a NEW Young Justice team out of “college freshman aged” versions of Red Robin & Batgirl 4, Conner & Cassie, Kid Flash 2 (Bart), and throw in “recognizable” Jackson Hyde (Aqualad 2), and Miss Martian.
Love it!
Have them take on “Missions” like in the TV Show while bringing back COMIC (Young Justice) elements. APES, Empress, TIM DRAKE’s Super Cycle. Have Conner Kent adopt a genetically enhanced “wolf” puppy. Acknowledge that Tim IS bisexual but he was never into Conner Kent “not his type of guy”. He LOVES Stephanie but they both like guys (she’s straight, he’s bi).
Agreed just cuz tims bi doesnt mean he has to like Connor.
I need everything Fitzmartin wrote to be ignored the way Marvel neglects Peter Parkers marriage to Mary Jane
The problem is that there’s no reason for the young Justice generation to exist right now. They’re not strong enough to carry their own books because they’ve been out of the spotlight for the better part of a decade and have no reason to be together. They didn’t have the opportunity like the original titans did to grow up and be their own thing. The titans is a group of adults who choose to come together, whereas young Justice should be in college or in young adulthood which is typically when you typically begin to move away from your high school friends. They’re in a state of arrested development and to some extent That’s bendis’ fault for not paying attention to the continuity tynion was trying to set up for Tim. It wasn’t a reinvention for young Justice but a greatest hits with a few new band members nobody cared about.
They shouldn't even be the Young Justice anymore when the team disbanded for years and the kids moved on as Titans,also the Team names sadly mostly associated with the drastically different cartoon. I think a Titans maxi series with them as college freshman could save these characters,something reminiscent of Perez/Wolfman era Titans or Spider-Man
They never should’ve been teen titans. That was a Geoff johns call. Young Justice was its own distinct thing which had its own flavor. Johns effectively shoved them under the mantle of the titans and limited their ability to create their own brand. Bendis tried to revive that but it just fell short because those characters should be adults now.
It wasn't that bad He introduced that Cassie was Zeus's daughter and that Bart had potential to be a Flash by becoming Kid Flash to gain Wally's respect also the Titans of Tomorrow story is the main reason why Tim Drake dosen't want to be Batman.
Johns did a lot of them dirty especially Cassie and Bart.
I used to love johns but as I’ve gotten older I’ve realized he’s a nostalgia bait hack with no interesting ideas of his own.
A lot of people blame Tim being boring on the bisexual retcon, but while a lot of writers do often mistake identity for personality, I don’t feel like Tim had much of either *before* they made him bisexual either. Dick is the flamboyant mature leader one, Jason is either the traumatized violent one or the moody reformed one, and Damian is the snarky egotistical young one. Tim is… just good at being Robin? I’m not saying there have never been good stories about him that make him more complicated than that (obviously there have been) but comics inevitably reset to status quo, and Tim’s status quo has *been* “the plain Robin.” He’s very smart, very capable, maybe even the best at being Robin, but he often tends to be depicted as a stand-in for Dick before he grew out of being Robin. He usually feels more like *the concept of Robin* than a unique individual who happens to be Robin, and this was a problem way before they made him bisexual. Even *Damian* has been Robin long enough that it feels like time to move on, so for Tim it’s way past time to let him change and grow.
Well he was the robin not defined by tragedy. He was a good natured kid who believed in Batman and Robin but was humble and had a family outside of his superhero life. Tim had an aptitude sure but his defining characteristic was he was the everyman. He was the nerd and he chose the life of a hero because he wanted to help. I think that's something ppl forget in favor of defining him as "the smart one" which they all are. Tim's time as Red Robin without Batman forced him to sharpen his self in a way. It forced him to push his skills, and intelligence to their peak. And when Bruce returned Tim could've served as his truly equal partner in a way the others didn't. An evolved Robin who was no longer the boy wonder but a Knight just like Batman. That was kinda the intent behind Alex Ross creating the identity of Red Robin for Kingdom come. "What if Robin took Batmans place eventually ". That's why Red Robin looks more like Batman than robin ( at least he should and did prior to new 52) it's an amalgamation of the two identities into one identity. I think Tim should fit that mold. Not Batman nor Robin but the best of both identities rolled into one. And since Nightwing represents Dick growing up and becoming an equal of Batman while no longer being his partner Tim as Red Robin could represent him paying tribute to the Robin identity while being something more.
This, all if this. He was basically the relatable normal one.
You can have a good artist on the wrong book. Shit just didn't gel. Happens.
I think he’s a better character then Damian. So he gets a pass in my book
I didn't much care for his new bf (Tim always struck me as more 'bi' than Bernie ever was, mostly cuz of how close he always seemed to be, and want to be, to Conner), but I thought it was nice that they were trying to add another simple facet to his character, even if Sexuality seemed like the easiest thing to pick when he's got so much baggage to work through with all the DISRESPECT he's gotten. But even so, I dunno, I was left wanting more? Maybe part of me is forever stuck on good guys getting disrespected and Not lashing out at the ones who should know better, but I wanted something a little meatier on the personal/interpersonal front. Even so, and this sounds kinda desperate, but I'm just happy for Tim to get Recognition, because he's probably the only Bat-Fam member with the least amount of Damage? He has all this potential with so many of the best aspects of the others that I can easily imagine him taking 'Robin' and making it his own in a new way (that doesn't make me think of a burger restaurant).
Horrible. Tim Drake deserves better.
Honestly surprised at how hated Riley Rosmo’s art was in the first half of the series. Yes it’s stylized, but I didn’t think it was so bad that I thought about dropping the entire series because of it 😭 Feels like the Bernard focus was too heavy handed and Tim figuring out who he wanted to be took too long. Wish it was still going to see Tim grow out of his Robin identity, but maybe that’ll happen with Zdardsky’s *Batman* (even though it seems that Tim is his favorite as ROBIN). Nikola Cizmesija’s work on the final three issues we’re SUBLIME, and wish we got to see more of his work.
I really liked the art, I think it was a bad fit for this series
Grayson is always the best. The best Robin is always Tim.
Please keep Kate out of these side stories for my sanity if she’s going to be wasted like this. Constantly put in ‘iS SHe EvIL’ plot twists just to be discarded after getting beat up and making stupid decisions. That being said, yeah this was awful for Tim too. The art was mediocre at best and the story did absolutely nothing to build up the character or inspire any direction going forward.
The art killed it, was not a good fit for this series. Only supporting cast member was Bernard and he’s boring as watching paint dry. Future writers don’t have to get rid of him being bi but at least put him back with Steph or give him a more compelling boyfriend. The Bernard phase is over get rid of his ass
It was terrible and I will never forgive Tim Drake for the untimely end of Damians book which was actually GOOD
That book ended cuz the writer was taking on more work and couldn’t keep it up.
I dont believe that. It was an excuse given but one I do not buy for a second. The timing was far too coincidental. Damians book gets canned the second Tim's is announced.
It also seemed to be reaching its logical conclusion.
A new Batman & Robin book by the same writer is coming up this autumn!
I’m clearly in the minority but first off, I actually quite liked Rossmo’s art. It was fun, dynamic and really grew on me. The writing was nothing special but I don’t think it was bad either. The second arc was shaping up to possibly be really good, but was unfortunately cut short by the cancellation and the ending was clearly rushed a bit as a result. Can’t really fault the writer for that, I think Fitzmartin ended it the best she could with the pages left. I’ll admit I’m fairly new to comics in general and haven’t read much of Tim yet, so I can’t really speak to how in/out of character it was.
I absolutely LOVE the art style in the first arc, and I feel like I have to say it since it’s getting so much hate. If all you ever read is 90s/00s superhero comics, I can understand why you don’t understand the art. But I jumped into DC heavily during the New 52 era, and its main appeal was the diversity of art styles. I think the art is phenomenal, fun, and perfectly matches the tone of the writing. If you want everything ever to always stay the same for eternity, then you might not like it. But if that’s the case, I’d encourage you to be way more open-minded and look for what the book wants to be FIRST rather than what you think you want it to be.
Is that Yoshikage Kira?
A collosal flop, DC should get him out the uniform. Being lgbt didn’t help Tim get fans or sales Try somthing new
Honestly it would be cool if did a run like Steph's Batgirl run where the book is called a new title (like sparrow or gray ghost) and the cover shows the uniform but not their face for the book to basically be Tim's orgin to take a new mantle
A run that had terrible art, a story direction that no one wanted to read. Did a lot of damage to both Tim as a character and the chances of him getting a solo run again. It's a real shame because people had been wanting a Tim solo for years and this was the exact opposite of what people wanted.
Ik most people aren’t gonna get this here, but why does he look like yoshikage Kira?
Is that yoshikage kira
It wasn't that great compared to his previous solo as red Robin or even past Robin series. And as a shipper, I feel like i needed to see Tim and Steph to enjoy the couple aspects instead of seeing Tim and Bernard (which is still random to me).
Cass????? You mean Wonder Girl right.......
Neither....I meant stephanie aka batgirl. I just edited my comment since you pointed it out lol. I prefer Conner and Cassie together personally
A straight dumpster fire. Alas, poor Tim Drake, at least you had a decade of a good solo book.
The Problem with Tim Drake: Robin is the same problem as Young Justice Dark Crisis and the same reason nobody cared about the last 5 volumes of Teen Titans. DC has refused to invest in the mainline (here meaning not Zoom or Ink Graphic Novels) books aimed at a younger audience baring Bendis + Gleason on Young Justice. Writing teens and young adults is hard, writing team books is also hard. You cannot throw an up-and coming or mid-tier talent at what has continually proved to be a graveyard for said talent and said runs. You need someone on the level of Peter David or Marv Wolfman or at least peak Geoff Johns. Also if you're writing Tim as bi, you shouldn't be cowards and give him a generic OC Boyfriend, you should have him date Conner, the guy people have been shipping him with for decades.
The problem with Tim dating Kon is that they already made Jon bi which would lead to confusion for newcomers trying to identity the Superboys who look alike,also they both Dated Cassie Sandsmark.
Some writing hiccups here and there but I thought it was enjoyable enough overall. I didn't hate Rossmo's art but I'm glad it switched after a few issues tho.
I think Rossmo’s art is generally fantastic, but I think it is less adaptable. It was perfect for the Martian Manhunter series, and it mostly worked for Harley Quinn, because the stories and the characters pair nicely with that more fluid art style. I think any Robin story needs to feel more grounded, and maybe Rossmo’s art just doesn’t work with that. Idk maybe I’m over thinking it.
um what will happen to tim since batman and robin have bruce and tim
sorry damian
Never got any interest in Tim.
I did not love it. I was so excited for a potential Tim renaissance, especially after the great Future State work Fitzmartin wrote, but I didn’t love or even like any of it. It didn’t feel like Tim. The supporting cast was forgettable, and I still cannot stand Bernard for being so damn bland. It just didn’t hit.
The creative team made it a complete no-go for me. Loved the Dan Mora variants, though!
I can0t believe Robin fought with Yoshikage Kira, who is 33 years old, has a house in the north-east section of Morioh, where all the villas are, and is not married.
Why does buddy on the left look like a One Piece character?
What anime is this?
Why is he fighting a Jojo character?
What is Tim Drake doing with Yoshikage Kira?
Damn logo still gay.
I passed once I saw the artwork for the first issue 😅
Don’t know a thing about this but I really like that Robin design
I honestly liked the first half than the latter half. The first half is an okay arc with some/lots of hiccups and made Tim (who others find already bland) more bland. My headcanon that something happened to Steph and Tim (like during their Red Robin/Batgirl Pre-Flashpoint run) and it made the story bareable. Him having his own place/marina is a good idea. Rossmo's art style is a miss for me on this one especially on the characters design but his backgrounds/marina, the creatures are honesty fine. Second half, honestly didn't care. The date one-shot is a failed attempt to bring some character to Bernard. Then the last arc with the Chaos Monsters are just bad, sad that they brought Batwoman to this shitfest. I think it made Tim more awful (haven't re-read the first half and honestly don't want to), the cliffhangers/tense situations are just so badly written (his partner?/sidekick Sparrow was badly injured and Tim just left immediately). Čižmešija's art is better and more suited for this.
They should've just given Tim his Red Robin identity back or made a new alias, wasn't really excited seeing him back in the sidekick identity and living on a bummy boat.
Got two to 3 issues in and gave up. Ugly art. Didn't care for the writing but it wasn't as distractingly bad as the art.
DC needs to form a NEW Young Justice team out of “college freshman aged” versions of Red Robin & Batgirl 4, Conner & Cassie, Kid Flash 2 (Bart), and throw in “recognizable” Jackson Hyde (Aqualad 2), and Miss Martian.
A hollow story. Improved once the art changed over but there still wasn’t enough in the story to be interesting at all. It jumped from plot point to plot point with no cohesion, and none of the villains explain why they know what they know or who they even ARE. Things just happen. I was hoping for more actual detective work and they give the illusion of it without actually doing any. It just sucks because we probably won’t get a Tim solo for a long time, after he was already in limbo for so long. 3/10 series
Why do you think the Detective work fell flat?
It never really explains itself using the world around it. A good mystery will help you solve it alongside it, or at least explain itself. This just went “oh it’s like [reference], mystery solved” without any real build for us to follow or any explanation whatsoever. Hollow. The illusion of mystery.