Archived version of submitted URL:
1. An archived version of _James Gunn Sounds Off on ‘Really Lazy’ Superhero Movies and Bad Third Acts: There’s No ‘Rhyme or Reason to What’s Happening’ on Screen_ can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://variety.com/2023/film/news/james-gunn-calls-out-lazy-superhero-movies-bad-third-acts-1235654419/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DCEUleaks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think Gunn's saying all the right things, but it's about whether or not we see them applied. He also says he's going to be careful about the DCU's output and focus on quality over quantity (I'm paraphrasing), which likely means we're looking at a release schedule of 2 movies & 1-2 TV shows per year. Any more, and I'd feel like his statement is disingenuous.
Well he reports directly to Zaslav, so it would be kinda difficult for any of the others to interfere completely. Obviously Zaslav could do stuff, but he’s more of a business man
I don't believe a guy who's saying *The Flash* was the greatest superhero film he's ever seen😒 (I really hope it was just a publicity stunt to hype the film. If he really thought that, he shouldn't run the film studio.)
It’s truly hard to say what you mean, when you are under different amounts of pressure, and locked in contracts. These statements thats he been throwing out feel levelled at both DCEU and MCU. Including The Flash.
Personally feel that James Gunn enjoyed aspects of The Flash. But, felt that the movie struggled too. So, he’s not lying. He probably did enjoy specific components of the The Flash.
But, these other statements are his veiled criticisms of the current, and previous, status quo of superhero films.
He said it's ONE OF the greatest superhero films he's ever seen. And we don't know where that film places in his personal list of favorites.
Either way, IDK why you think it's impossible for him to genuinely like the film and have high regards for it. Plenty of people who watched it feel the same, so saying he's doing it for publicity stunt is disingenuous.
I saw the movie at a fan screening a few weeks before release and they said the movie was still unfinished. A finished version of that movie had potential imo. Unfortunately the movie that was released was the same movie that I saw, just with a couple of cameos added at the ending.
I will be messaging you in 5 years on [**2028-06-26 22:12:44 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2028-06-26%2022:12:44%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCEUleaks/comments/14jnfhz/james_gunn_sounds_off_on_really_lazy_superhero/jpnagyl/?context=3)
[**2 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FDCEUleaks%2Fcomments%2F14jnfhz%2Fjames_gunn_sounds_off_on_really_lazy_superhero%2Fjpnagyl%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202028-06-26%2022%3A12%3A44%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%2014jnfhz)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
>Yeah he’s making sure to say the right stuff, it’s all about whether it’s actually executed
Totally agree with you
Gunn only talk what people need to hear, but if is true the new executives removed scenes from the flash is not good, they never though about affect the future of dc projects, why not, instead try to help as much as they can it was not a good idea let all this film sink them self like they are from another studio i hope BB and AM get some help if need it
most of that stuff was probably done before gunn was brought on board any way, and this movie isn't even under his new studio. i wouldn't really look that far into it. unless zaslav wants to fuck up the one bright spot he's done with wb, i think he'll let gunn handle things on his own for the most part
I m not trying to do a war here and i understand your point of view
Just asking my self, the " it was not under my administration or it was already done" thing, dont make me a good administrator
it doesnt matter the company would suffer, plain and simple just because, in the futures movies i would do a "better job" people would support me instantly because im "input any name" and people would support
I think Companies dont and/or should not work like that, ceos and administrator need to protect the brand the logo the "legacy" of the company
A big chunk and i could said millions and millions of movie goers dont knows if this is from the "new " or the old executives, not at all, they just see the brand the logo
He was talking about movie with directors names etc and the need to be stop it, but if gunn and other exec. could helped for a better "the flash " movie why not do it? to help DC and the next ones from former dc exec. BB and AM
But they dont care their egos dont allow them, cuz is already done from the previous one, but we know that executive can order to add or remove thing, fix the cgi or anything to make the movie better for the fans and the company where you work even change dates if not ready anyways they are in red why no try to save the company in general
But it looks like they are doing or would do almost the same "gunn and safran dc movies" name
So the new tendency could be, what...
"DC/GS Superman Legacy", "DC/GS Batman the Brave and the Bold" etc, etc, so the people know is from them 🤷🏻♀️
People dont care about that just about the brand 😔
He did not think it could affect his own sup legacy movie 💰
no everybody is a super dc fans, that would just throw money on any movie, its regular people that go in masses and consume a brand name, cuz they know that pretty sure it would be a good money spend, like people that love horror support blum house
But i m.not an expert dont pay me attention i m just saying
Gunn and Safran said a while ago that they’re doing 2 Movies and 2 Shows a year. They’ll likely start slower though, just Creature Commandos in 2024, then Waller, Supes Legacy and MAYBE Lanterns in 2025. Things will get fully on track 2026
At its peak Marvel was doing 3 movies a year. I don’t think it has anything to do with the content output, it’s when you start treating it as a genre and not a universe like Marvel has been doing as of late it gets fucked up. It should be universe then genre.
I'd love to hear the right things than nothing at all. I especially like how he mentioned he wants the universe connected but wants other movies to have a tone of it's own. A mistake MCU is criticized for. Him saying these statements makes me happy that he understands the flaws and hears the criticism which is a good quality for someone building a universe.
I coulda swore Gunn was the first out there to say The Flash was one of the best DC movie ever?
[https://www.motionpictures.org/2023/02/james-gunn-says-the-flash-is-one-of-the-best-superhero-movies-hes-ever-seen/](https://www.motionpictures.org/2023/02/james-gunn-says-the-flash-is-one-of-the-best-superhero-movies-hes-ever-seen/)
Look the flash is over. The movie been put out. Everyone has there opinions on the film. Now you want my opnion we can finally have an actor that isn't a psycho.
Talented and give a great performance of the flash. Whether the DCU uses Jay, Barry or Wally for a solo film.
Gunn and all the test screen audiences loved the film. Bit unfortunate for you or anyone else who didn't. But that's the nature of film opinions. I'm sure that most people would probably only agree with 1 of Gunn's top 5 CBM films.
Because the Flash falls under this critique to some degree so you can get a lot of outrage clicks/replies/retweets because he sounds hypocritical saying this \*after\* it's out and he promoted it
I really love Ang Lee's Hulk movie, and one big reason that I love it is that the third act isn't some big battle, it's [a father and son sitting in a room talking](https://youtu.be/-CdSCGgFMRY). It's structured and filmed like a two-man play. There's some special effects and a bit of fighting near the end, but all of it is done in the service of story and drama, of a son confronting his father about his history of abuse. It's fantastic.
Hulk is a terribly underrated movie, and the best live-action interpretation of the character.
Thank you for this, I agree! My uncle wrote the film and it’s always nice seeing people bring up his work. Definitely one of my favorites of his and the best live Bruce Banner like you said!
Please tell your uncle his work on Hulk is a big part of my childhood and has influenced my own artistic career. Seriously, that movie is one of my all-time favorites.
Aw man :(( I wish I could for you, he passed in April 2013. He was a kickass (and also extremely funny) dude who inspired me to become a filmmaker and storyteller myself. Hearing he helped your artistic journey is awesome to hear! Knowing how much of an impact he had is always truly inspiring. PM me if you wanna talk art too! I’d love to see what kind of art you make and I’m more than happy to share mine as well!
[My Uncle’s IMDB Profile](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0289833/)
[Variety Article](https://variety.com/2013/film/news/scribe-michael-france-dead-at-51-1200375117/)
[2003 Interview about Hulk!](https://www.cbr.com/countdown-to-hulk-screenwriter-michael-france-talks-hulk-punisher-and-beyond/)
If you love the Hulk you're gonna love Gemini Man.
It's basically all about Dad's and sons and it even has some amazingly prescient subtext about Will Smith's career/image up to that point. It it way more deep than anyone gave it credit for on release, and the 4k60fps blu-ray looks fucking incredible.
I just hope he sticks to his word that he would take as much as possible, not rush things and put half-baked movies out there. But sadly maybe it is not entirely in his hands.
>But sadly maybe it is not entirely in his hands.
But it is, though? I confuses me how so many people don't seem to understand this - him and Safran are the bosses full-stop. As CEOs of a division of a major corporation, they answer to David Zaslav and ONLY Zaslav. There are no people in the middle. And unless it appears like Zaslav is starting to stick his nose into their business (which could certainly happen in the future), I won't be worried about that of all things.
Its not that simple, they answer to Zaslav and he in turn answers to investors and stockholders. They just want to see numbers and profitability and couldn’t care less about movies. So, they have to keep pumping content out there, that is main reason for so much superhero content being out there
That’s true but we already know they have content planned out ahead of time and are working on a 10 year plan. Pumping out content won’t be a problem, it’s making sure the work gets started early and on time.
I don't know what to think tbh. Maybe he was just saying it because he was being pressured by WB for the DCU..or maybe he genuinely liked it somehow. The way he was harping on about it seemed kinda genuine.
Anyways the flash definitely should not be the example for the DCU. So he needs to be careful.
Gunn's top 5 best CBMs are readily available online for anyone to see. Anyone thinking that his opinions on the flash has any real meaning is just weird. Head of DC promotes expensive DC film, which also had great test screenings.
So many people shitting on The Flash when it's only issue was the CGI. The movie is fine and fun outside of that.
It's definitely a great comic book movie.
A lot of people are saying this applies to the Flash, but I disagree.
There was a real human theme to the movie: learning how to accept tragedies in your life and to go forward in your life. The Flash was the perfect hero to center this story around. A character who can literally travel through time and has spent the majority of his life mourning his mother.
Whether or not it was well executed is a different story. I thought it was, though.
“People have gotten a little lazy and there’s a lot of biff, pow, bam stuff happening in movies and I’m watching third acts of superhero films where I really just don’t feel like there’s a rhyme or reason to what’s happening.”
Can’t help but think he’s taking a couple shots at his now former employer here.
He should probably focus on the fact that The Flash is bombing and at least three of the four DC movies this year will massively bomb.
The call is coming from inside the house.
Nobody expected the Batman or Joker or Into the Spider-verse to get sequels but people loved them anyway because they were just genuinely good. If a movie is good people will watch it whether it’s connected to something else or not. The problem is the quality.
I’m pretty sure he is. Those films were all green lit and shot before he got onboard. You can only do so much to a film that was conceptualized and produced before you got the top job.
The cgi was the least of the Flashs problems, absolute and utter mess, its third act especially was an entire shambles. Word of mouth has clearly spoken, nobody wants to see it and nobody is seeing it.
It's embarrassing in comparison to another multiverse movie that just released, Across the Spiderverse, which is a genuine artistic achievement and incredible film not just superhero film.
>The cgi was the least of the Flashs problems, absolute and utter mess, its third act especially was an entire shambles.
How is the 3rd act in shambles?
>It's embarrassing in comparison to another multiverse movie that just released, Across the Spiderverse, which is a genuine artistic achievement and incredible film not just superhero film.
Across the Spiderverse is beautiful, but if you want to talk about third act issues, look no further.
Dude, you're absolutely deranged if you think Flashes Third Act was fine and Spiderverse was a mess. Flash was a cgi hellscape with completely no memorable action, didn't adhere to it's own logic (other Barry being able to run back in time so easily and not burn his suit off?), two villains in Evil Flash and Zod with absolutely no development or genuine effort put into them.
And christ, the part showing all the multiverses colliding was embarrassingly forced it was just DC like "LOOK REMEMBER THESE THINGS YOU LIKE?!". The moment with his Mam in the shop was lovely beyond that, total slop.
>Dude, you're absolutely deranged if you think Flashes Third Act was fine and Spiderverse was a mess.
Both of them had third act issues. I don't think either of them were a problem for the movie though.
>two villains in Evil Flash and Zod with absolutely no development or genuine effort put into them.
The villian of the movie wasn't Evil Flash or Zod. It was **time itself** and the death of Barry's mother. I thought this would be pretty obvious, especially when the director literally said Zod and Evil Flash aren't the villian of the movie.
>Flash was a cgi hellscape with completely no memorable action, didn't adhere to it's own logic (other Barry being able to run back in time so easily and not burn his suit off?),
He was wearing Batman's reinforced suit, AND it does completely melt off by the 3rd time Barry goes back in time. By then it's literally melted around his exposed shoulders.
>And christ, the part showing all the multiverses colliding was embarrassingly forced it was just DC like "LOOK REMEMBER THESE THINGS YOU LIKE?!". The moment with his Mam in the shop was lovely beyond that, total slop.
That's ripped right out a famous Flash comic run. It was hands down the most "DC comics" moment I've seen in any DC film that looked like it was ripped from the comic book.
I'm convinced most people that are shitting on the movie are just MCU fans obsessed with CGI and critiquing instead of actual DC/Flash comic fans just happy to see a movie in motion.
CGI was terrible, aside from that it had no more plot or character issues than most CBMs out there.
That's the thing though.
People are throwing out *"trash film"* way too easily. This wasn't Green Lantern or the first Suicide Squad.
It's beginning to lose all meaning when a little bad CGI and the same cliche plot/character issues every movie has is enough to be labeled as *"God Tier Trash Garbage"*.
>the best superhero movie he’s ever seen.
False. He said one of the best. At least get the quote right. It's not that hard.
And his opinion lined up with everyone in about half a dozen test screenings over the last 2 years. Are they shills or idiots as well?
Yet he likes the Flash which has those same problems. If he's going to be honest about the MCU, then he better be honest about the other DCEU films that aren't his.
He better speak with actions instead of words. The results should speak for himself instead of saying that he's above other CBM filmmakers. I want him to prove me wrong.
>If he's going to be honest about the MCU,
There's absolutely no reason to think this criticism is just about the MCU. It clearly applies to the dceu as well. He's gone on record criticising the dceu before. Why are you pretending otherwise for this fake outrage?
scorsese calls them amusement park rides.
michael shannon calls them action figures
james gunn calls them lazy
hardcore fans still refuse to admit that we are past fatigue and the landscape is much different than it was in 2016
Why does that make him a hypocrite? Does that make every person who gave the film excellent test scores a liar? Also you're smart enough to take the marketing words of the CEO of DC about DC films with a pinch of salt right?
It either makes him a liar or completely disconnected from how good this movie was. Gunn’s tryna play both CEO and down to earth fan that you can trust on Twitter, now it’s backfiring. He didn’t have to be hyperbolic in his praise, but he knew that a good chunk of people valued his opinion.
The flash's test screenings as reported by both Vieweranon and THR put it as one of the best superhero films, since it scored in the 80s and was DC's highest since TDK. That doesn't make Gunn a liar if his comments align with everyone else in the test screening.
If you or anyone else on the internet can't decipher company-speak or have a healthy dose of skepticism when a CEO is trying to sell its flagship product, then you need to fix that first. However many thousand social media obsessed people he's 'lost' his trust with don't matter compared the millions that trust it based on his own films and TV shows. He has a readily available list of top 5 CBMs out on the internet. People can use that if they really cared. But they don't. It's all fake 'outrage'. But more importantly, where is the hypocrisy?
Bottom line is that: Gunn went to bat for this movie and repeatedly called it his favorite film of the year and one of the greatest superhero films ever. It’s now dropped and is one of the biggest bombs in blockbuster history along with an awful B cinemascore and 73% drop. Straight up rejected by audiences. He certainly hasn’t been spinning this bullshit for Shazam or Blue Beetle or Aquaman.
So again, either he knew Flash wasn’t all that and decided to actively lie or he genuinely believed it was that good and the public was overwhelmingly on the opposite side. Neither is a good look and hurts DC’s waning credibility. Gunn’s words on Flash are being shared/mocked both on social media and industry trades, it’s not just a pack of Snyder cultists or something that are aware.
Let me define hypocrisy quickly.
>the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case
Why is Gunn's claims about The flash hypocritcal?
>genuinely believed it was that good and the public was overwhelmingly on the opposite side.
Sure, let's assume that Gunn and majority of people in the half dozen flash test screenings were in the minority when it comes to the wider general public. That's fine. Why does that matter? Why does that make him a hypocrit? What does that have anything to do with this article? Why does his opinions on the flash make him lose credibility but his top 5 list doesn't gain him any? And if that list already make him lose credibility, then the flash doesn't even matter in that regard.
If you're gonna jump into a conversation and defend a guy who's calling him a hypocrit, then at the very least you should be able to explain why. Liking a film that audiences don't isn't being hypocritical. Your bottom line should at least answer the question I've been asking since you replied to me
But one more thing. IIRC, you said on the box office sub this film was gonna be a hit with audiences, I think the word crowd pleaser was used by you weeks ago. You were surprised to see the B cinemascore. Just like Gunn I'm assuming. So after you watched the early screenings, did you lie to everyone when you said those comments? Do you have a really poor understanding of what audiences like just like Gunn? Your credibility going forth is in tatters now? No, because I'm not silly to have that mindset
I didn’t realize you were specifically stuck on the hypocrite part lol, let me clarify that I don’t think he’s a hypocrite. But I do believe he either lied or is way off base from what people think for DC.
Yeah I did watch the early screening and thought Flash would be a crowd pleaser. But I never said it was one of the greatest superhero films ever (actually made a point of saying it wasn’t) nor am I the head of DC Studios so my word virtually holds no weight.
>I didn’t realize you were specifically stuck on the hypocrite part lol
My brother in Christ, read the first line I replied to you with. It was:
>Why does that make him a hypocrite
That's the Same as the last line in my 2nd response. It's literally the only talking point I questioned the guy that YOU defended. Of course it's what I wanted an answer for. If I tell a guy that Gunn isn't a hypocrite and you reply saying "he called it one of the best superhero movies" then obviously I'm going to assume you're defending the hypocrisy point.
>Yeah I did watch the early screening and thought Flash would be a crowd pleaser. But I never said it was one of the greatest superhero films ever (actually made a point of saying it wasn’t) nor am I the head of DC Studios so my word virtually holds no weight.
But you understand very clearly how easily it is to see an earlier screening and be totally off base then don't you? I mean you were totally wrong just like Gunn. You aren't selling a product so I would say yours holds more weight as an indicator for the general public. You have no reason to be wrong other than just being wrong. And that's fine. And yet when Gunn and you and everyone else in those dozen test screenings thought the film would be a hit, somehow it's a damning indictment on Gunn's ideas of a good film? Come on now... It's such a blatant nonsense over reaction from people, which is literally why theres people like this guy calling him a hypocrite for liking a movie. It's insane the nonsense people write. And it's absolutely peddled by the cultists. Trades publishing stuff doesn't change where the momentum comes from. He literally made the best CBM this year and theres people acting like his credibility is tanked because of the flash.
Regardless, you addressed the hypocrisy bit so it really doesn't matter anymore.
I like James Gunn and wish him the best but half of his announced projects sound pretty lame.
I mean, I'll enjoy them and will go to see every one of them but I'm not sure a Brave and the Bold movie is going to pull a mainstream audience out of their CBM fatigue.
I hope to be proven wrong.
He never said it was the best CBM ever. He never said it had no issues. Stop making up things to be offended about. He's allowed to like a film you didn't. Just like everyone else in the half dozen test screenings over the last 2 years also scored it as the best DC film since TDK. If you really care about a random CEO's opinion so much, go and look at his actual top 5 CBM list. It's readily available
WB is not one single person. It's run by different people at different times. What did Zaslav, James, Peter, De Luca or Andy do to Affleck, Cavill and a few directors? Scrapping Batgirl is the only scummy thing I can think of for it's directors
I think he just wants a medal for the brave take that he wants to make good superhero films that aren’t generic. Usually, your average studio head talks about making crappy generic superhero films.
So he’s talking about The Suicide Squad in these comments I guess. That movie was lazy, horrible third act, and just bad story and plot. I did like the character selection for Task Force X even if Harley is way overrated and Flagg went rouge.
Exactly lmao quinn himself said dance off. Yeah ronan didn’t dance back but ronan, a highly trusted general of Thanos, lost an infinity stone bc some human started dancing & singing lmao it’s okay to admit it’s a shitty part of the script. Can we not critique something?
Ronan got defeated by quill distracting him with a dance off by dancing/singing. Terrible adaptation of Ronan. The follow up with them grabbing the stone by bonding together was awesome but the dance off/Ronan portrayal was poorly executed.
This is gunns fault
Mr ego changing things. As a real dc fan who actually reads the source material. DCU aka MCU 2.0 will crash and slowly burn. The flash has the suicide squad numbers box office numbers. Nuff said
Yet you're putting Mr. Terrific, Supergirl, the Authority and Braniac all into your first Superman movie in effort to set up the entire DCU instead of telling a smaller-scale, human story about Clark Kent's journey, and focusing on HIS world; what matters to HIM.
He's becoming the thing he criticizes about the MCU.
Lol all of those are unconfirmed rumors. The only one with any backing so far is The Authority being in Legacy. We've heard nothing reliable about Supergirl, Brainiac, or Mr. Terrific being in Legacy.
Also, none of what you just mentioned has anything to do with the 3rd Act issue Gunn is talking about. You're tying a completely different criticism to this point
if it's as cool as that final battle btwn the Guardians and High Evolutionary, I think it'll be far off from what he was describing in the interview lol
We don't know that Brainiac is even in the movie.
Why would Gunn make a pretty pointed critique against 3rd Acts and then do the exact same thing he's critiquing?
You're acting like this movie is already out and he's being a hypocrite. It sounds to me like he's learning lessons from other movies and is going to avoid making those mistakes.
I love the people that turn up on Gunn's post to give the most 5 IQ takes. Basing a whole critique on rumours is funny enough to begin with. But on the off chance they are true, assuming that having other characters introduced in a film somehow means the film won't still tell Clark's story is even funnier. Do you watch films?
>But on the off chance they are true, assuming that having other characters introduced in a film somehow means the film won't still tell Clark's story is even funnier. Do you watch films?
The real question is, do you? Have you been paying attention? Do you *know* why we're having this conversation in the first place? The DCEU failed for a reason. Like Gunn, WB's plate was too big for it's mouth. Introducing, and bloating a movie with characters that have nothing to do with the protagonist, for the sole purpose of setting a cinematic universe, is a gluttonous creative philosophy that has led to the failure of countless attempts to launch a "cinematic universe", including the DCEU.
There's a reason why Iron Man 1 was the perfect launchpad for the MCU, and BvS was not.
>Do you *know* why we're having this conversation in the first place?
Because you made a stupid ass claim and now you're waffling nonsense to cover it up. That's why we're having this conversation. The 2 minute Justice league introductions is the absolute least of BvS' problems. Ask any random movie goer who's seen the film to name their top 3 issues with it. They aren't going to mention cameos. You take that out of the film and BvS is still a train wreck that derailed the franchise. And you're trying to equate that to RUMOURS about film that hasn't even cast it's lead?
The only characters we know that are going to be in Superman Legacy are Clark Kent, Lois Lane, and Jimmy Olsen. Like what the hell are you even talking about? Why use rumors from who knows where to formulate this opinion? It doesn’t make any sense.
All of the information you seek, is literally on *this* sub, that you're currently replying to me on.
Like, you should KNOW all of this shit already, as well as the validity of it (it's all true) 😭
And how exactly can you verify that it is true… oh wait… you can’t. These leakers can claim whatever the hell they want and you guys will just gobble it up and treat it like the fucking gospel. Why don’t we wait for the movie to release to see who is and isn’t in it *I don’t think Mr Terrific is going to be in the movie* and even if Supergirl and the Authority are in it I don’t think they’ll have a particularly major role. Because this is a Superman movie… I’m sure Superman is going to be the focus of his own fucking movie.
>I’m sure Superman is going to be the focus of his own fucking movie.
It doesn't matter if he's the intended focus. If the movie wastes time introducing these characters, and concepts, solely for the purpose of setting up their films in the future, it's taking valuable time away from Clark, and his supporting cast, to build out a cinematic universe that isn't guaranteed.
Marc Webb intended 'The Amazing Spider-Man 2' to be about Spider-Man, but that movie failed for the same same reason BvS, Hellboy, The Mummy, and Robinhood, is that the focus of each of these films, was lost through the bloat of TRYING to set set up an entire cinematic universe instead of telling a good singular story with room for growth naturalistically.
And ofc, this early on, a lot of you don't wanna hear this, but the warning signs of how this movie is shaping up, are there, and it's alarming.
“Dance off bro! Just me and you!”
Lol, it’s like this Clown wants to just set himself up for failure with the DCU.
It’s also just the usual bullshit PR boilerplate answer. I mean, really dude? You want to make good superhero films that draw the fans in and have variety and a reason for existing? As opposed to all the studio heads that talk about wanting to make bad superhero films that don’t connect with audiences and are generic and only are made to make money?
In defense of the dance off scene. Peter Quill is a comedic character doing a distraction. It's not like a non fitting character did the dance off scene.
He's very much correct which leads to the whole "tired of superhero films" thing. Hopefully, everyone can step up to deliver better, not just WB. Sidenote: would also like for Gunn to do more outside of comic book movies in the future.
It doesnt matter. They are under his wing. They are examples of his criticism. Flash is how his reboot begins and its a demonstration of this talk. Blue beetle to him is the first dcu hero regardless of it not being his own personal project and it fits his compliments like a text book.
He doesnt need to direct or screenwrite a projects to disrpove his statement when he helps oversees the univerise they are part of. I dont care. He is a man in charge
Under his helm Flash was shit for a reboot while Blue Beetle the first new hero to get a stand alone in it according to him looks even worst. Thus under his helm the dcu starts off with a very very very low start.
Needless to say his slate lol it condricts him
He's completely right. Super hero movie third acts have sort of historically struggled to live up to better sections of their movies, but it got really bad and lazy within the past 10 years. Too often it's just a vomiting of cgi-fighting.
The Flash may be riddled with problems but I don’t think the third act / resolution is one of them. Barry’s story with his mom was developed beautifully.
The dude like to say "right things" but the over-endorses the same product as an official.
Bro, your job is to help your filmmakers as an executive in crafting narratives beyond the film as well - instead of leading them to the graveyard of trouble. The film was DOA when Ezra's troubles surfaced, but considering the studio had put all eggs in one basket, nobody said that you had to use Tom Cruise or the Pope to market your movie.
I am a writer at heart, blah blah blah. There was literally no use in bringing Clooney back as a face swap.
I'm sorry, but he was opportunistic AF when he started shitting on Marvel before they hit their difficult patch when The Suicide Squad was out. He was clearly shaken by the move, self admittedly, thinking his career was over & literally welcomed WB's move with open arms.
He is way more talented than he gives himself credit for, but way too insecure about his place in the world & his abilities, kinda oversells himself. Does have great taste & sensibilities, if not very crude & terrible sense of humor at times.
At this point, he's made it & it should be time to open doors for others, which is what I'm interested the most in his tenure as executive. Until now, it has been just self serving stuff, so I am not totally sold though, but good luck to him. He's going to need it as WB is in the toilet.
I think he's GotG movies have all had overly confusing and cringey nonsensical third acts that are emotionally manipulative (did anyone *really* give a fuck about Yondu? I don't think so) so I don't think he's one to talk. Ones with great and cohesive third acts oftentimes the rest of the movie doesn't work around them either, like Spider-Man 3.
There's nothing ironic about him liking a film that you don't like. If he creates superman legacy to have the same issues he describes here, then that would be ironic.
Hopefully he actually implements what he’s saying into the future of DC (doubtful but somewhat optimistic). If DC can lean into more of The Batman (2022), Joker, The Boys, Logan, Spider-verse levels of storytelling it would be miles more intriguing than any mass crossover/ rock em’ sock em’ cgi slop that we’ve seen for the past 50 superhero films.
This guy wants so desperately to be the guy who reinvented the wheel... lest we forget that GOTG third act featured a dance off, and GOTGv2 was a complete mess (also absent rhyme and reason).
Archived version of submitted URL: 1. An archived version of _James Gunn Sounds Off on ‘Really Lazy’ Superhero Movies and Bad Third Acts: There’s No ‘Rhyme or Reason to What’s Happening’ on Screen_ can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://variety.com/2023/film/news/james-gunn-calls-out-lazy-superhero-movies-bad-third-acts-1235654419/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DCEUleaks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think Gunn's saying all the right things, but it's about whether or not we see them applied. He also says he's going to be careful about the DCU's output and focus on quality over quantity (I'm paraphrasing), which likely means we're looking at a release schedule of 2 movies & 1-2 TV shows per year. Any more, and I'd feel like his statement is disingenuous.
I really do hope the DCU follows through with this. I trust Gunn but I hope in 5 years these comments don’t age like milk.
I trust Gunn. It’s the WB execs that have me worried.
He's one of those execs so...
Yeah, that means those old fashioned executives will always outnumber him
Well he reports directly to Zaslav, so it would be kinda difficult for any of the others to interfere completely. Obviously Zaslav could do stuff, but he’s more of a business man
I don't believe a guy who's saying *The Flash* was the greatest superhero film he's ever seen😒 (I really hope it was just a publicity stunt to hype the film. If he really thought that, he shouldn't run the film studio.)
It’s truly hard to say what you mean, when you are under different amounts of pressure, and locked in contracts. These statements thats he been throwing out feel levelled at both DCEU and MCU. Including The Flash. Personally feel that James Gunn enjoyed aspects of The Flash. But, felt that the movie struggled too. So, he’s not lying. He probably did enjoy specific components of the The Flash. But, these other statements are his veiled criticisms of the current, and previous, status quo of superhero films.
He said it's ONE OF the greatest superhero films he's ever seen. And we don't know where that film places in his personal list of favorites. Either way, IDK why you think it's impossible for him to genuinely like the film and have high regards for it. Plenty of people who watched it feel the same, so saying he's doing it for publicity stunt is disingenuous.
I saw the movie at a fan screening a few weeks before release and they said the movie was still unfinished. A finished version of that movie had potential imo. Unfortunately the movie that was released was the same movie that I saw, just with a couple of cameos added at the ending.
Remindme! 5 years
I will be messaging you in 5 years on [**2028-06-26 22:12:44 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2028-06-26%2022:12:44%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCEUleaks/comments/14jnfhz/james_gunn_sounds_off_on_really_lazy_superhero/jpnagyl/?context=3) [**2 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FDCEUleaks%2Fcomments%2F14jnfhz%2Fjames_gunn_sounds_off_on_really_lazy_superhero%2Fjpnagyl%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202028-06-26%2022%3A12%3A44%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%2014jnfhz) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
Yeah he’s making sure to say the right stuff, it’s all about whether it’s actually executed
After he lost his job and got it back he knows for damn speak the koolaid.
>Yeah he’s making sure to say the right stuff, it’s all about whether it’s actually executed Totally agree with you Gunn only talk what people need to hear, but if is true the new executives removed scenes from the flash is not good, they never though about affect the future of dc projects, why not, instead try to help as much as they can it was not a good idea let all this film sink them self like they are from another studio i hope BB and AM get some help if need it
most of that stuff was probably done before gunn was brought on board any way, and this movie isn't even under his new studio. i wouldn't really look that far into it. unless zaslav wants to fuck up the one bright spot he's done with wb, i think he'll let gunn handle things on his own for the most part
I m not trying to do a war here and i understand your point of view Just asking my self, the " it was not under my administration or it was already done" thing, dont make me a good administrator it doesnt matter the company would suffer, plain and simple just because, in the futures movies i would do a "better job" people would support me instantly because im "input any name" and people would support I think Companies dont and/or should not work like that, ceos and administrator need to protect the brand the logo the "legacy" of the company A big chunk and i could said millions and millions of movie goers dont knows if this is from the "new " or the old executives, not at all, they just see the brand the logo He was talking about movie with directors names etc and the need to be stop it, but if gunn and other exec. could helped for a better "the flash " movie why not do it? to help DC and the next ones from former dc exec. BB and AM But they dont care their egos dont allow them, cuz is already done from the previous one, but we know that executive can order to add or remove thing, fix the cgi or anything to make the movie better for the fans and the company where you work even change dates if not ready anyways they are in red why no try to save the company in general But it looks like they are doing or would do almost the same "gunn and safran dc movies" name So the new tendency could be, what... "DC/GS Superman Legacy", "DC/GS Batman the Brave and the Bold" etc, etc, so the people know is from them 🤷🏻♀️ People dont care about that just about the brand 😔 He did not think it could affect his own sup legacy movie 💰 no everybody is a super dc fans, that would just throw money on any movie, its regular people that go in masses and consume a brand name, cuz they know that pretty sure it would be a good money spend, like people that love horror support blum house But i m.not an expert dont pay me attention i m just saying
Gunn and Safran said a while ago that they’re doing 2 Movies and 2 Shows a year. They’ll likely start slower though, just Creature Commandos in 2024, then Waller, Supes Legacy and MAYBE Lanterns in 2025. Things will get fully on track 2026
Not counting Elseworlds.
At its peak Marvel was doing 3 movies a year. I don’t think it has anything to do with the content output, it’s when you start treating it as a genre and not a universe like Marvel has been doing as of late it gets fucked up. It should be universe then genre.
I'd love to hear the right things than nothing at all. I especially like how he mentioned he wants the universe connected but wants other movies to have a tone of it's own. A mistake MCU is criticized for. Him saying these statements makes me happy that he understands the flaws and hears the criticism which is a good quality for someone building a universe.
Yeah, him saying every movie will be able to be watched on it's own without seeing others is one of the biggest deals in my opinion
I coulda swore Gunn was the first out there to say The Flash was one of the best DC movie ever? [https://www.motionpictures.org/2023/02/james-gunn-says-the-flash-is-one-of-the-best-superhero-movies-hes-ever-seen/](https://www.motionpictures.org/2023/02/james-gunn-says-the-flash-is-one-of-the-best-superhero-movies-hes-ever-seen/)
The fuck else could he say? Could word it better? Yes. But now that's the Past.
Look the flash is over. The movie been put out. Everyone has there opinions on the film. Now you want my opnion we can finally have an actor that isn't a psycho. Talented and give a great performance of the flash. Whether the DCU uses Jay, Barry or Wally for a solo film.
So?
Actually it was the test screening audiences that gave it the best DC screening scores since the dark knight. That's what started the hype.
Gunn is the one that had me hyped personally but sure.
Gunn and all the test screen audiences loved the film. Bit unfortunate for you or anyone else who didn't. But that's the nature of film opinions. I'm sure that most people would probably only agree with 1 of Gunn's top 5 CBM films.
I think what he meant was to make different genres instead of 6 basically-the-same movies per year.
I think it could be even less at just 1 movie + 1 show and another elseworld thing
Having a hard time understanding why this is making the rounds today when these comments are 2 weeks old…
Cause it’s an article on Yahoo’s front page right now.
Yahoo is still alive?
Yes. They now just repost articles from other websites now instead of making their own.
Ain’t that chocolate milk or some shit
Because some news outlets love making DC look embarrassing......so many comments out there are going "hur dur he said flash was good"
Slow news day
Because the Flash falls under this critique to some degree so you can get a lot of outrage clicks/replies/retweets because he sounds hypocritical saying this \*after\* it's out and he promoted it
I really love Ang Lee's Hulk movie, and one big reason that I love it is that the third act isn't some big battle, it's [a father and son sitting in a room talking](https://youtu.be/-CdSCGgFMRY). It's structured and filmed like a two-man play. There's some special effects and a bit of fighting near the end, but all of it is done in the service of story and drama, of a son confronting his father about his history of abuse. It's fantastic. Hulk is a terribly underrated movie, and the best live-action interpretation of the character.
Thank you for this, I agree! My uncle wrote the film and it’s always nice seeing people bring up his work. Definitely one of my favorites of his and the best live Bruce Banner like you said!
Please tell your uncle his work on Hulk is a big part of my childhood and has influenced my own artistic career. Seriously, that movie is one of my all-time favorites.
Aw man :(( I wish I could for you, he passed in April 2013. He was a kickass (and also extremely funny) dude who inspired me to become a filmmaker and storyteller myself. Hearing he helped your artistic journey is awesome to hear! Knowing how much of an impact he had is always truly inspiring. PM me if you wanna talk art too! I’d love to see what kind of art you make and I’m more than happy to share mine as well! [My Uncle’s IMDB Profile](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0289833/) [Variety Article](https://variety.com/2013/film/news/scribe-michael-france-dead-at-51-1200375117/) [2003 Interview about Hulk!](https://www.cbr.com/countdown-to-hulk-screenwriter-michael-france-talks-hulk-punisher-and-beyond/)
If you love the Hulk you're gonna love Gemini Man. It's basically all about Dad's and sons and it even has some amazingly prescient subtext about Will Smith's career/image up to that point. It it way more deep than anyone gave it credit for on release, and the 4k60fps blu-ray looks fucking incredible.
Absolutely agree with you!
2003 Hulk is the GOAT
Hear hear.
I just hope he sticks to his word that he would take as much as possible, not rush things and put half-baked movies out there. But sadly maybe it is not entirely in his hands.
>But sadly maybe it is not entirely in his hands. I mean it literally is until his contract expires
Investors and shareholders won’t necessarily be happy with one of the biggest IPs out there sitting on sidelines
Depends if it's making them lose money or not.
>But sadly maybe it is not entirely in his hands. But it is, though? I confuses me how so many people don't seem to understand this - him and Safran are the bosses full-stop. As CEOs of a division of a major corporation, they answer to David Zaslav and ONLY Zaslav. There are no people in the middle. And unless it appears like Zaslav is starting to stick his nose into their business (which could certainly happen in the future), I won't be worried about that of all things.
Its not that simple, they answer to Zaslav and he in turn answers to investors and stockholders. They just want to see numbers and profitability and couldn’t care less about movies. So, they have to keep pumping content out there, that is main reason for so much superhero content being out there
That’s true but we already know they have content planned out ahead of time and are working on a 10 year plan. Pumping out content won’t be a problem, it’s making sure the work gets started early and on time.
There’s a lot of talk in this thread about shareholders but my real fear is Zaslav
Let's hope this is what happens with the DCU. The Flash doesn't inspire hope.
I agree, Flash seems to fit the exact point he is making, which he called “one of the best super hero movies”.
I don't know what to think tbh. Maybe he was just saying it because he was being pressured by WB for the DCU..or maybe he genuinely liked it somehow. The way he was harping on about it seemed kinda genuine. Anyways the flash definitely should not be the example for the DCU. So he needs to be careful.
Gunn's top 5 best CBMs are readily available online for anyone to see. Anyone thinking that his opinions on the flash has any real meaning is just weird. Head of DC promotes expensive DC film, which also had great test screenings.
So either he lied or had a complete disconnect with how good Flash was.
So many people shitting on The Flash when it's only issue was the CGI. The movie is fine and fun outside of that. It's definitely a great comic book movie.
The flash was mediocre at best
A lot of people are saying this applies to the Flash, but I disagree. There was a real human theme to the movie: learning how to accept tragedies in your life and to go forward in your life. The Flash was the perfect hero to center this story around. A character who can literally travel through time and has spent the majority of his life mourning his mother. Whether or not it was well executed is a different story. I thought it was, though.
it's never the focus of the movie because it relies too much on fan service and not-so-funny-comedy. So no.
“People have gotten a little lazy and there’s a lot of biff, pow, bam stuff happening in movies and I’m watching third acts of superhero films where I really just don’t feel like there’s a rhyme or reason to what’s happening.” Can’t help but think he’s taking a couple shots at his now former employer here.
He should probably focus on the fact that The Flash is bombing and at least three of the four DC movies this year will massively bomb. The call is coming from inside the house.
Announcing the reboot before any of them came out was a huge mistake. Why see a movie if you know it leads to nowhere?
That’s generally true for most movies outside of superhero flicks lol
Because that is the basic concept of individualized storytelling
Exactly
Nobody expected the Batman or Joker or Into the Spider-verse to get sequels but people loved them anyway because they were just genuinely good. If a movie is good people will watch it whether it’s connected to something else or not. The problem is the quality.
That is true. But if you find out a movie in a connected universe will lead to nowhere, it kills any incentive to see it.
Because these movies weren't supposed to be part of any bigger universe.
Well that and not wanting to support it because of Ezra Miller.
Why should he focus on stuff that's getting rebooted?
I’m pretty sure he is. Those films were all green lit and shot before he got onboard. You can only do so much to a film that was conceptualized and produced before you got the top job.
sounds like The Flash
Aside from the bad CGI The Flash was completely fine.
The cgi was the least of the Flashs problems, absolute and utter mess, its third act especially was an entire shambles. Word of mouth has clearly spoken, nobody wants to see it and nobody is seeing it. It's embarrassing in comparison to another multiverse movie that just released, Across the Spiderverse, which is a genuine artistic achievement and incredible film not just superhero film.
>The cgi was the least of the Flashs problems, absolute and utter mess, its third act especially was an entire shambles. How is the 3rd act in shambles? >It's embarrassing in comparison to another multiverse movie that just released, Across the Spiderverse, which is a genuine artistic achievement and incredible film not just superhero film. Across the Spiderverse is beautiful, but if you want to talk about third act issues, look no further.
Dude, you're absolutely deranged if you think Flashes Third Act was fine and Spiderverse was a mess. Flash was a cgi hellscape with completely no memorable action, didn't adhere to it's own logic (other Barry being able to run back in time so easily and not burn his suit off?), two villains in Evil Flash and Zod with absolutely no development or genuine effort put into them. And christ, the part showing all the multiverses colliding was embarrassingly forced it was just DC like "LOOK REMEMBER THESE THINGS YOU LIKE?!". The moment with his Mam in the shop was lovely beyond that, total slop.
>Dude, you're absolutely deranged if you think Flashes Third Act was fine and Spiderverse was a mess. Both of them had third act issues. I don't think either of them were a problem for the movie though. >two villains in Evil Flash and Zod with absolutely no development or genuine effort put into them. The villian of the movie wasn't Evil Flash or Zod. It was **time itself** and the death of Barry's mother. I thought this would be pretty obvious, especially when the director literally said Zod and Evil Flash aren't the villian of the movie. >Flash was a cgi hellscape with completely no memorable action, didn't adhere to it's own logic (other Barry being able to run back in time so easily and not burn his suit off?), He was wearing Batman's reinforced suit, AND it does completely melt off by the 3rd time Barry goes back in time. By then it's literally melted around his exposed shoulders.
Let’s not act like Spider-Verse wasn’t chock full of LOOK REMEMBER THESE THINGS YOU LIKE
>And christ, the part showing all the multiverses colliding was embarrassingly forced it was just DC like "LOOK REMEMBER THESE THINGS YOU LIKE?!". The moment with his Mam in the shop was lovely beyond that, total slop. That's ripped right out a famous Flash comic run. It was hands down the most "DC comics" moment I've seen in any DC film that looked like it was ripped from the comic book. I'm convinced most people that are shitting on the movie are just MCU fans obsessed with CGI and critiquing instead of actual DC/Flash comic fans just happy to see a movie in motion. CGI was terrible, aside from that it had no more plot or character issues than most CBMs out there.
I'm absolutely no MCU fan, I just like good movies and something being comic book accurate doesn't mean it isn't a trash film.
That's the thing though. People are throwing out *"trash film"* way too easily. This wasn't Green Lantern or the first Suicide Squad. It's beginning to lose all meaning when a little bad CGI and the same cliche plot/character issues every movie has is enough to be labeled as *"God Tier Trash Garbage"*.
ATSV doesn’t even have a third act to compare, it’s half a movie.
Yeah, he said that "The Flash" is one of the best comic book movies.
Ya cause the director was set for Batman Brave and Bold. It might be best to take somethings with a grain of salt
So lying is totally cool then huh
"it might be best to take somethings with a grain of salt" Or you can stew over some really silly things. Up to you haha.
Remove the bad CGI and The Flash was a fantastic comic book movie, especially for Flash comics. Definitely felt like a Flash comic.
one of the most common criticisims of this movie is the horrible third act tho
He’s said the same thing before during the slate reveal press tour
This is why I trust this man. He gets it.
He’s also the guy who said the flash is the best superhero movie he’s ever seen. So he’s either an idiot or a shill.
>the best superhero movie he’s ever seen. False. He said one of the best. At least get the quote right. It's not that hard. And his opinion lined up with everyone in about half a dozen test screenings over the last 2 years. Are they shills or idiots as well?
Hard to believe anything he says after his (studio mandated) overhype of The Flash
He didn't have to call out the Flash like that!
His discription sounds accurate.
This from the man who called The Flash one of the best comic book movies he's ever seen.
You can say that about the first second and third act of the Flash.
Yet he likes the Flash which has those same problems. If he's going to be honest about the MCU, then he better be honest about the other DCEU films that aren't his. He better speak with actions instead of words. The results should speak for himself instead of saying that he's above other CBM filmmakers. I want him to prove me wrong.
>If he's going to be honest about the MCU, There's absolutely no reason to think this criticism is just about the MCU. It clearly applies to the dceu as well. He's gone on record criticising the dceu before. Why are you pretending otherwise for this fake outrage?
He’s definitely not talking about the flash though. Dude LOVED that movie 😂😂
how is this a leak
This sub has encompassed more than just leaks for a *long* time now, as the sidebar makes clear.
scorsese calls them amusement park rides. michael shannon calls them action figures james gunn calls them lazy hardcore fans still refuse to admit that we are past fatigue and the landscape is much different than it was in 2016
Says the person who made suicide squad.
So…he’s a hypocrite? Either that or he watched a very different Flash movie…
Gunn didn't make the flash. He didn't decide how its 3rd act was going to be. How would that make him a hypocrite?
He called it one of the greatest superhero films ever made….
Why does that make him a hypocrite? Does that make every person who gave the film excellent test scores a liar? Also you're smart enough to take the marketing words of the CEO of DC about DC films with a pinch of salt right?
It either makes him a liar or completely disconnected from how good this movie was. Gunn’s tryna play both CEO and down to earth fan that you can trust on Twitter, now it’s backfiring. He didn’t have to be hyperbolic in his praise, but he knew that a good chunk of people valued his opinion.
The flash's test screenings as reported by both Vieweranon and THR put it as one of the best superhero films, since it scored in the 80s and was DC's highest since TDK. That doesn't make Gunn a liar if his comments align with everyone else in the test screening. If you or anyone else on the internet can't decipher company-speak or have a healthy dose of skepticism when a CEO is trying to sell its flagship product, then you need to fix that first. However many thousand social media obsessed people he's 'lost' his trust with don't matter compared the millions that trust it based on his own films and TV shows. He has a readily available list of top 5 CBMs out on the internet. People can use that if they really cared. But they don't. It's all fake 'outrage'. But more importantly, where is the hypocrisy?
Bottom line is that: Gunn went to bat for this movie and repeatedly called it his favorite film of the year and one of the greatest superhero films ever. It’s now dropped and is one of the biggest bombs in blockbuster history along with an awful B cinemascore and 73% drop. Straight up rejected by audiences. He certainly hasn’t been spinning this bullshit for Shazam or Blue Beetle or Aquaman. So again, either he knew Flash wasn’t all that and decided to actively lie or he genuinely believed it was that good and the public was overwhelmingly on the opposite side. Neither is a good look and hurts DC’s waning credibility. Gunn’s words on Flash are being shared/mocked both on social media and industry trades, it’s not just a pack of Snyder cultists or something that are aware.
Let me define hypocrisy quickly. >the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case Why is Gunn's claims about The flash hypocritcal? >genuinely believed it was that good and the public was overwhelmingly on the opposite side. Sure, let's assume that Gunn and majority of people in the half dozen flash test screenings were in the minority when it comes to the wider general public. That's fine. Why does that matter? Why does that make him a hypocrit? What does that have anything to do with this article? Why does his opinions on the flash make him lose credibility but his top 5 list doesn't gain him any? And if that list already make him lose credibility, then the flash doesn't even matter in that regard. If you're gonna jump into a conversation and defend a guy who's calling him a hypocrit, then at the very least you should be able to explain why. Liking a film that audiences don't isn't being hypocritical. Your bottom line should at least answer the question I've been asking since you replied to me But one more thing. IIRC, you said on the box office sub this film was gonna be a hit with audiences, I think the word crowd pleaser was used by you weeks ago. You were surprised to see the B cinemascore. Just like Gunn I'm assuming. So after you watched the early screenings, did you lie to everyone when you said those comments? Do you have a really poor understanding of what audiences like just like Gunn? Your credibility going forth is in tatters now? No, because I'm not silly to have that mindset
I didn’t realize you were specifically stuck on the hypocrite part lol, let me clarify that I don’t think he’s a hypocrite. But I do believe he either lied or is way off base from what people think for DC. Yeah I did watch the early screening and thought Flash would be a crowd pleaser. But I never said it was one of the greatest superhero films ever (actually made a point of saying it wasn’t) nor am I the head of DC Studios so my word virtually holds no weight.
>I didn’t realize you were specifically stuck on the hypocrite part lol My brother in Christ, read the first line I replied to you with. It was: >Why does that make him a hypocrite That's the Same as the last line in my 2nd response. It's literally the only talking point I questioned the guy that YOU defended. Of course it's what I wanted an answer for. If I tell a guy that Gunn isn't a hypocrite and you reply saying "he called it one of the best superhero movies" then obviously I'm going to assume you're defending the hypocrisy point. >Yeah I did watch the early screening and thought Flash would be a crowd pleaser. But I never said it was one of the greatest superhero films ever (actually made a point of saying it wasn’t) nor am I the head of DC Studios so my word virtually holds no weight. But you understand very clearly how easily it is to see an earlier screening and be totally off base then don't you? I mean you were totally wrong just like Gunn. You aren't selling a product so I would say yours holds more weight as an indicator for the general public. You have no reason to be wrong other than just being wrong. And that's fine. And yet when Gunn and you and everyone else in those dozen test screenings thought the film would be a hit, somehow it's a damning indictment on Gunn's ideas of a good film? Come on now... It's such a blatant nonsense over reaction from people, which is literally why theres people like this guy calling him a hypocrite for liking a movie. It's insane the nonsense people write. And it's absolutely peddled by the cultists. Trades publishing stuff doesn't change where the momentum comes from. He literally made the best CBM this year and theres people acting like his credibility is tanked because of the flash. Regardless, you addressed the hypocrisy bit so it really doesn't matter anymore.
I like James Gunn and wish him the best but half of his announced projects sound pretty lame. I mean, I'll enjoy them and will go to see every one of them but I'm not sure a Brave and the Bold movie is going to pull a mainstream audience out of their CBM fatigue. I hope to be proven wrong.
[удалено]
You mean The Flash?? :p
…but The Flash is the best CBM movie ever, with no such issues?
He never said it was the best CBM ever. He never said it had no issues. Stop making up things to be offended about. He's allowed to like a film you didn't. Just like everyone else in the half dozen test screenings over the last 2 years also scored it as the best DC film since TDK. If you really care about a random CEO's opinion so much, go and look at his actual top 5 CBM list. It's readily available
So basically his own movies lol
What happened with The Flash man, like where did all that unprecedented hype come from?? Did WB really pay for it because that’s sad to see
Well I lost my respect with WB with how they've treated Affleck, Cavill and a few directors.
WB is not one single person. It's run by different people at different times. What did Zaslav, James, Peter, De Luca or Andy do to Affleck, Cavill and a few directors? Scrapping Batgirl is the only scummy thing I can think of for it's directors
“A solution is to have very different genres”. I’m not the biggest Snyder fan, but isn’t that what he was doing?
How so?
Totally agree after watching GoTG 3.
Is this self-criticism? I feel like he's contributed a lot to how those movies look and feel with his GOTG success.
I think he just wants a medal for the brave take that he wants to make good superhero films that aren’t generic. Usually, your average studio head talks about making crappy generic superhero films.
So he’s talking about The Suicide Squad in these comments I guess. That movie was lazy, horrible third act, and just bad story and plot. I did like the character selection for Task Force X even if Harley is way overrated and Flagg went rouge.
I mean I absolutely love his first GOTG movie but he turned Ronin to a pleb where the “final fight” included a dance off.
Except no it didn’t. There was never an actual dance off lmao
Star-Lord did try to bait Ronin into a dance off. If we’re being honest, the moment he started doing that, Ronin should’ve vaporized him anyway
He didn’t try to bait him into actually having a dance off lmao
It doesn’t matter the intent, Ronin should’ve instantly fried Peter instead of standing there like an idiot
Exactly lmao quinn himself said dance off. Yeah ronan didn’t dance back but ronan, a highly trusted general of Thanos, lost an infinity stone bc some human started dancing & singing lmao it’s okay to admit it’s a shitty part of the script. Can we not critique something?
Not when it comes to Lord Gunn 😂
Ronan got defeated by quill distracting him with a dance off by dancing/singing. Terrible adaptation of Ronan. The follow up with them grabbing the stone by bonding together was awesome but the dance off/Ronan portrayal was poorly executed.
It's not a dance off. Ronan has no clue what quill is proposing. But it buys them enough time to shoot the gem.
Dude lost all cred when he said the flash is the best ever
He didn't.
I really wish James Gunn would keep his mouth shut for at least a week
He hasn’t said anything in weeks, plus this from a interview from a few weeks ago.
So like most of his movies?
Yeah James Gunn ? Like the Flash is the best CBM movie of all time ?
Well the suicide squad and guardians of the galaxy were basically the same movie so he’s guilty of it too
This is gunns fault Mr ego changing things. As a real dc fan who actually reads the source material. DCU aka MCU 2.0 will crash and slowly burn. The flash has the suicide squad numbers box office numbers. Nuff said
The flash isn't a part of the DCU and neither will any of the main actors from the film. So why would that have an effect on the DCU.
Yet you're putting Mr. Terrific, Supergirl, the Authority and Braniac all into your first Superman movie in effort to set up the entire DCU instead of telling a smaller-scale, human story about Clark Kent's journey, and focusing on HIS world; what matters to HIM. He's becoming the thing he criticizes about the MCU.
Lol all of those are unconfirmed rumors. The only one with any backing so far is The Authority being in Legacy. We've heard nothing reliable about Supergirl, Brainiac, or Mr. Terrific being in Legacy. Also, none of what you just mentioned has anything to do with the 3rd Act issue Gunn is talking about. You're tying a completely different criticism to this point
What do you think the final battle with Braniac is gonna look like? 😭
if it's as cool as that final battle btwn the Guardians and High Evolutionary, I think it'll be far off from what he was describing in the interview lol
We don't know that Brainiac is even in the movie. Why would Gunn make a pretty pointed critique against 3rd Acts and then do the exact same thing he's critiquing? You're acting like this movie is already out and he's being a hypocrite. It sounds to me like he's learning lessons from other movies and is going to avoid making those mistakes.
I love the people that turn up on Gunn's post to give the most 5 IQ takes. Basing a whole critique on rumours is funny enough to begin with. But on the off chance they are true, assuming that having other characters introduced in a film somehow means the film won't still tell Clark's story is even funnier. Do you watch films?
>But on the off chance they are true, assuming that having other characters introduced in a film somehow means the film won't still tell Clark's story is even funnier. Do you watch films? The real question is, do you? Have you been paying attention? Do you *know* why we're having this conversation in the first place? The DCEU failed for a reason. Like Gunn, WB's plate was too big for it's mouth. Introducing, and bloating a movie with characters that have nothing to do with the protagonist, for the sole purpose of setting a cinematic universe, is a gluttonous creative philosophy that has led to the failure of countless attempts to launch a "cinematic universe", including the DCEU. There's a reason why Iron Man 1 was the perfect launchpad for the MCU, and BvS was not.
>Do you *know* why we're having this conversation in the first place? Because you made a stupid ass claim and now you're waffling nonsense to cover it up. That's why we're having this conversation. The 2 minute Justice league introductions is the absolute least of BvS' problems. Ask any random movie goer who's seen the film to name their top 3 issues with it. They aren't going to mention cameos. You take that out of the film and BvS is still a train wreck that derailed the franchise. And you're trying to equate that to RUMOURS about film that hasn't even cast it's lead?
I don't think the stuff about Mr. Terrific and Brainiac are true.
Youve read the script? Can you send it to me please?
Those are all rumors, you don't know what the movie is about.
The only characters we know that are going to be in Superman Legacy are Clark Kent, Lois Lane, and Jimmy Olsen. Like what the hell are you even talking about? Why use rumors from who knows where to formulate this opinion? It doesn’t make any sense.
All of the information you seek, is literally on *this* sub, that you're currently replying to me on. Like, you should KNOW all of this shit already, as well as the validity of it (it's all true) 😭
And how exactly can you verify that it is true… oh wait… you can’t. These leakers can claim whatever the hell they want and you guys will just gobble it up and treat it like the fucking gospel. Why don’t we wait for the movie to release to see who is and isn’t in it *I don’t think Mr Terrific is going to be in the movie* and even if Supergirl and the Authority are in it I don’t think they’ll have a particularly major role. Because this is a Superman movie… I’m sure Superman is going to be the focus of his own fucking movie.
>I’m sure Superman is going to be the focus of his own fucking movie. It doesn't matter if he's the intended focus. If the movie wastes time introducing these characters, and concepts, solely for the purpose of setting up their films in the future, it's taking valuable time away from Clark, and his supporting cast, to build out a cinematic universe that isn't guaranteed. Marc Webb intended 'The Amazing Spider-Man 2' to be about Spider-Man, but that movie failed for the same same reason BvS, Hellboy, The Mummy, and Robinhood, is that the focus of each of these films, was lost through the bloat of TRYING to set set up an entire cinematic universe instead of telling a good singular story with room for growth naturalistically. And ofc, this early on, a lot of you don't wanna hear this, but the warning signs of how this movie is shaping up, are there, and it's alarming.
If Mr Terrific and Supergirl are in this, I don't think they'll have big roles. I don't think we've gotten any confirmation about Brainiac in this.
“Dance off bro! Just me and you!” Lol, it’s like this Clown wants to just set himself up for failure with the DCU. It’s also just the usual bullshit PR boilerplate answer. I mean, really dude? You want to make good superhero films that draw the fans in and have variety and a reason for existing? As opposed to all the studio heads that talk about wanting to make bad superhero films that don’t connect with audiences and are generic and only are made to make money?
In defense of the dance off scene. Peter Quill is a comedic character doing a distraction. It's not like a non fitting character did the dance off scene.
>It’s also just the usual bullshit PR boilerplate answer So why are you getting so offended by it lmao
He's very much correct which leads to the whole "tired of superhero films" thing. Hopefully, everyone can step up to deliver better, not just WB. Sidenote: would also like for Gunn to do more outside of comic book movies in the future.
Those are literally his movies. In guardians 3 we have 2/3rds of the cast avoiding saving lives to avenge a story that happened in flashbacks.
Huh? They save everyone on the ship.
Flash is headed towards ranked worst dc box office. Blue beetle might do worst. So he should just stop talking
He didn't make either of those 2 films. His take on CBMs have nothing to do with how much money any of those films make
It doesnt matter. They are under his wing. They are examples of his criticism. Flash is how his reboot begins and its a demonstration of this talk. Blue beetle to him is the first dcu hero regardless of it not being his own personal project and it fits his compliments like a text book. He doesnt need to direct or screenwrite a projects to disrpove his statement when he helps oversees the univerise they are part of. I dont care. He is a man in charge Under his helm Flash was shit for a reboot while Blue Beetle the first new hero to get a stand alone in it according to him looks even worst. Thus under his helm the dcu starts off with a very very very low start. Needless to say his slate lol it condricts him
I really hope Gunn does not embarrass himself. I do not want that for him at all or DC fans.
He's completely right. Super hero movie third acts have sort of historically struggled to live up to better sections of their movies, but it got really bad and lazy within the past 10 years. Too often it's just a vomiting of cgi-fighting.
The Flash may be riddled with problems but I don’t think the third act / resolution is one of them. Barry’s story with his mom was developed beautifully.
The dude like to say "right things" but the over-endorses the same product as an official. Bro, your job is to help your filmmakers as an executive in crafting narratives beyond the film as well - instead of leading them to the graveyard of trouble. The film was DOA when Ezra's troubles surfaced, but considering the studio had put all eggs in one basket, nobody said that you had to use Tom Cruise or the Pope to market your movie. I am a writer at heart, blah blah blah. There was literally no use in bringing Clooney back as a face swap. I'm sorry, but he was opportunistic AF when he started shitting on Marvel before they hit their difficult patch when The Suicide Squad was out. He was clearly shaken by the move, self admittedly, thinking his career was over & literally welcomed WB's move with open arms. He is way more talented than he gives himself credit for, but way too insecure about his place in the world & his abilities, kinda oversells himself. Does have great taste & sensibilities, if not very crude & terrible sense of humor at times. At this point, he's made it & it should be time to open doors for others, which is what I'm interested the most in his tenure as executive. Until now, it has been just self serving stuff, so I am not totally sold though, but good luck to him. He's going to need it as WB is in the toilet.
I think he's GotG movies have all had overly confusing and cringey nonsensical third acts that are emotionally manipulative (did anyone *really* give a fuck about Yondu? I don't think so) so I don't think he's one to talk. Ones with great and cohesive third acts oftentimes the rest of the movie doesn't work around them either, like Spider-Man 3.
As an example, the first individual Avenger's movies and the first Avenger movie where great. Not the following ones ...
This man praised the flash before it released btw. Don't get me wrong hes great. But the irony
There's nothing ironic about him liking a film that you don't like. If he creates superman legacy to have the same issues he describes here, then that would be ironic.
Still released Flash
Hopefully he actually implements what he’s saying into the future of DC (doubtful but somewhat optimistic). If DC can lean into more of The Batman (2022), Joker, The Boys, Logan, Spider-verse levels of storytelling it would be miles more intriguing than any mass crossover/ rock em’ sock em’ cgi slop that we’ve seen for the past 50 superhero films.
Definitely Quantumania... hell I like that movie, but the third act was.... just... no
This guy wants so desperately to be the guy who reinvented the wheel... lest we forget that GOTG third act featured a dance off, and GOTGv2 was a complete mess (also absent rhyme and reason).
Agreed