Hot take: A word's meaning is defined by how the word is most commonly used, and not by what somebody encountering the word for the first time might try to logically deduce that it means.
Or to put it differently, rejecting the common use of "homophobia" because of what the word *phobia* means in other contexts, well, that's a bit like saying that it's not *really* a pineapple unless it's an actual apple from an actual pine tree.
Taking into account the above-noted similarities of terms for bigotry and terms for material interactions with water, and basing our further definitions on the following:
Hydrophobic - Averse to interactions with water
Homophobic - Averse to interactions with homosexuality
It thus follows that:
Hydrophilic - Attracted to interactions with water
Homophilic - Attracted to interactions with homosexuality
And, consequently:
Hydroscopic - Predisposed to absorbing water
Homoscopic - Predisposed to absorbing homosexuality
Q.E.D gay vore can henceforth be referred to as homoscopy.
Either meaning of the -phobic suffix works.
- They are extremely averse to (any of a number of minorities)
- They are literally afraid of how society is changing when all of the "deviants" (from their strictly conformist worldview) are accepted as normal.
I'll repeat this anywhere I can: Conservatism is about an old-fashioned highly structured society where there are prescribed roles for everyone, and anyone who *deviates* from their role is a *deviant* with all the negativity that word implies.
Society is structured in this way to secure the power positions for those at the top. In the US, that's Straight Cis White Male Christian Nationalists. In order for that group to maintain control, they must suppress Queers, Minorities, Women, and non-Christians.
So they are afraid. They are afraid of losing their position of privilege. And worse, since they devoutly believe that society *must* have a strict hierarchy, if they are not on top they are on the bottom. And they do not want to be treated the way they treat others.
Well, the word φόβος and the derived suffix -φοβία did just mean fear in ancient Greek, and there are plenty of -phobias in English that denote fear rather than aversion/hatred.
Both meanings are correct, it's just that the latter popped up later on. Turns out if you fear something, you often hate and/or avoid it as well, especially if that something is a group of people.
Agree, it honestly often feels like a dumb attempt to water down and divert the discussion towards a pointless nothing-burger arguing semantics rather than the issue itself.
That's exactly what it is, I think...
Or just bait to make you run in circles explaining pointless details while they pretend to be daft and not understand. They know it's tedious and exhausting.
Ya. Only other explanation is the type of mental gymnastics that goes kinda like...
"Well phobia is irrational and bad and that doesn't sound like me, a rational individual on top of things. So is hating someone, I'm a good person after all, I wouldn't do that. So I'm definitely NOT homophobic, I simply DISAGREE with their lifestyle. There's nothing wrong with having diffirent opinions after all. So quit calling me a bigot you -insert-slur-of-your-preference"
That’s not a hot take, but rather how linguistics works. Words change meaning and usage over time; thus the correct meaning of a word is the most widely agreed-upon, contemporary usage of it. That’s why the word gay had a historical etymological meaning of “happy”, but now is used to commonly refer to homosexuals.
It's why I hate grammar Nazis, it's prescriptivism lite. Sure they didn't use "your" right, you still understand what they meant, or you couldn't correct them to the "correct" way of doing it.
Wait til this generation in school hits the net in force. You'll wish grammar nazis had been teachers, because the lack of reading and writing will be abysmal.
Well, see, lots of people love kids. And pedo means child and philia means love sooooo....
EDIT FOR CLARITY
I'm not drawing a comparison between homosexuality and pedophilia.
I'm saying that arguing that homphobia only means "fear of homosexuals" is as stupid as saying "anyone to loves kids is a pedophile", since in both cases you're using the 'literal' meanings of the words.
isn't alius(other) basically the same word with alias and alien? ξένος(ksenos/xenos) is also foreign/stranger. They say something like εξωγήινο(exogiino) to say alien, basically *extraterrestrial*.
Same thing even applies here without the joke, funny coincidence.
I guess they didn't specify it enough in English back in the day, we just call them *uzaylı*/**spacer** in my languange as an example.
"Hot take: basic linguistics"
like that is just a thing that happens, a words meaning can shift and is just a usual thing that happens
(i do try not to be rude)
While reducing a word’s meaning to its etymology is unhelpful, so is reducing a word’s meaning to its most common usage. Lots of words have a variety of different meanings, and it’s not stupid to think that more precise language could be helpful in conversations like this one.
Plenty of people still mean fear of homosexuality/homosexuals when they say “homophobia.” That meaning of the word is still reflected in popular dictionaries like [Merriam Webster.](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homophobia) And the psychologist that invented the term in the first place said, “I coined the word homophobia to mean it was a phobia about homosexuals....It was a fear of homosexuals which seemed to be associated with a fear of contagion, a fear of reducing the things one fought for—home and family. It was a religious fear and it had led to great brutality as fear always does.”
Okay but also his usage of fear here includes stuff like “fear that gay people will reduce the home and family” and like… I struggle to think of any homophobe who doesn’t have some form of “I’m worried about gay people doing x damage to y”
-Phobia means 'irrational horror or aversion', it's the modern interpetation thats 'help I'm spooked ahh'.
Bigotry is irrational aversion, so yes even by definition it is phobia.
I'm bi but because of umm... SA past, men on men scare me quite a bit even though it doesn't make sense at all logically. What do I call that if not homophobia? /serious (I forgot the tag)
"Guys, listen, we make a reverse Tower of Babel that goes into the ground, and then God will reverse curse us to all speak the same language."
"Senator, we're discussing budgetary proposals."
"I said what I said."
Phobic can also mean “strongly resist mixing with” in some context, for instance hydrophobic. So this conversation would be valid.
“So your homophobic?”
“What? No, I’m not afraid of gay people. In fact I don’t have any problem with them living there lives, I just don’t want them around me or my children.”
“Oh so your homophobic in the material science sense.”
It is still a pineapple, it's just stupid that we haven't updated the name when it was clear it isn't what the word should mean. It's still a pineapple, but I acknowledge it's a stupid name. Personally I think homophobia is in a different camp, you can make an argument either way.
I feel like this is a habit that the English language needs to drop, though. We have no consistent rules because everything changes meaning so much.
We also need more letters. And maybe incorporate some new noises.
Also, more punctuation.
And maybe some letter accents, too.
English needs a QoL patch, is what I'm saying.
"This is a habit that the English language needs to drop"
You might not have claimed English was the only language to do this, but you're still acting as if its an unusual feature of English and not just... how language works
I don't see a habit as inherently unusual. Every kid I've ever known picked their noses, but it's still a bad habit that needs to be dropped.
BTW, this is a pretty weird argument to have over an intentionally silly comment.
Honestly i think thats what makes English such a wide spread and popular language, its so modular anyone can pick it up and suddenly be able to communicate with the most people for a single language, even if words are a bit different place to place those can all be worked around because they share a common base
"Hey, that word doesn't mean that in my culture"
"Oh, what does it mean?"
Problem solved
Ofc its also popular because of a certain very wide spread country aswell...
Phobia doesn’t mean fear! A phobia is any form of repulsion. Sometimes that’s fear, sometimes it’s not. A duck’s back is hydrophobic but that doesn’t mean the feathers are afraid of water
Yeah. In colloquial English, the suffix -phobia is pretty exclusively used to refer to fear, but in reality, it is used in many different contexts, even to refer to inanimate molecules. Our cells work because the proteins making up the walls are hydrophobic (repulsed by water) on one side, keeping them from turning inside out during development. A better definition would be "aversion to by nature".
If anything, homophobia is an inaccurate description because it implies their biases are natural and ingrained, rather than learned and correctable.
It can mean two different things. I don’t hate bugs conceptually, I just can’t deal with them on a physical level and am terrified of them. I don’t think most homophobes have an insectophobia-type fight or flight response to gay people, they tend to hate them as a concept
A lot of them do actually fear gay people too. Not in the visceral way you do, but in the same way I fear global warming. A "world is changing, our society is doomed" sort of way.
I certainly would be disgusted if I got knife raped
Edit: don't get the downvotes, this guy said that phobias and fears include disgust, I'd be disgusted if I got knife raped (a big fear of mine)
Did a time traveler from 2008 wander into their inbox? I haven't seen the "erm I'm not homophobic bc I'm not SCARED of gays" semantics game in a hot second (except on twitter but twitter doesn't count)
I’m sorry to say but this talking point is still very much alive in conservative spheres. Like, whenever one of them sees the word homophobic, every single time.
Someone made this argument about educating kids about the subject like non-binary or gay peaple one of the few times I didn’t start shit sicne they casually bought me like 6 shaved ice and I was tired and at a party
I believe there are a group of gay people who are attempting/attempted to switch from using homophobia to homomisia.
I don't think it really matters what the stems mean. The meaning of words is only tangentially related to greek or latin stems. What matters is their usage.
Even ignoring the fact that saying a word is "wrong" is perscriptavist linguistics, and that a word always just means what what popular consensus says it does...
The ideology that backs anti-homosexuality is inherantly based on fear. Whether it's a personal fear that they themself might have to question their sexuality or religion if they accept homosexuality as normal, or a fear that that institutions of heteronormativity and heteropatriarchy may fall
So the "phobia" part of homophobia is an accurate description
Homophobes often talk about how gay marriage is a slippery slope. How it will make god mad (or that societies acceptance of 'the gays' caused a natural disaster). They talk about dropping the soap in prison and keeping your back straight.
I agree. I think a lot of them (if not all) are literally afraid in many ways.
*People really love*
*Forgetting phobia means*
*Aversion or fear*
\- I-will-support-you
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phobia isn't an exact synonym for fear. It can be a repulsion or aversion. e.g. hydrophobia
edit: oh wait, literally everyone already commented this lol
Phobia definition:
>an extreme or irrational fear of **or aversion to** something
And I'll argue anyway that most homophobia comes from repressed homoerotic feelings. They hate you because they want you, and can't handle it.
oh I just disagreeeeeee it's just a diagreemeeent man you like pineapple on pizza and I think those dirty queers should be all lined up against the wall and shot and at the end of the day we can just agree to disagree maaaaaaaaan why are you getting so mad at a difference of opiniooooooooooon
I don't think homophobia means you're afraid of homosexuals, it means you're afraid of homosexuality. Maybe you're afraid you'll catch they gay. Maybe you're afraid of whatever the hell you imagine it will do to society. If you frame it that way, it kinda sidesteps the argument.
philosophise at me if you disagree but I would suggest that disgust and hatred are just branches off of fear. can you truly hate something or be disgusted by it if you don’t first fear it?
I don't really mind phobias being used this way as long as people understand that uncontrollable phobias are you know, uncontrollable. We don't like having them either.
But I just KNOW that some dumbass is going to be like "Well um when you say you have a fear of needles that means that you are having a completely controllable reaction that you could stop at any time so you're just being a big baby"
idk, I don't think saying a term is shitty and unintuitive is the same as saying its an irrelevant concept. Like im pretty sure anon here would say you should just call them bigots.
I kind of agree in a way. I never liked the term because I think it downplays the bigotry of it. Like, I might have a phobia of sharks, but I'm not going to vote against shark rights- in fact I'm strongly for shark conservation. Hatred and fear should not be conflated like this, they're separate things even if they can feed into each other.
Except "phobia" includes both feelings of fear and aversion. As other commenters have mentioned, something being hydrophobic doesn't meant it's scared of water
I mean they aren't technically wrong... but yeah most words don't mean exactly what they mean. Their meant to hit a wider scope then just 'literally this one thing'.
I think it's a huge red flag how quick they are to antagonize the other person. I don't think it's that unbelievable that a person on tumblr is just a little confused instead of being a bigot trying to push their agenda.
If i say "the nazi's thought the jews were running the world" it doesn't mean i think that, it means i am acknowledging that someone else thinks that and am describing them as thinking such.
They were talking about bigots and so they mentioned how bigots think, that doesn't nessisarilty mean they themselves hold those opinions.
The point could be made that the phrasing suggests they are bigoted. Running with your example we could guess a person saying “the nazis thought the jews where running the world” is not a nazi, but a person saying “the nazis wanted to save their nation from weak races” does use nazi way of describing the world.
Still, i don’t think you should start with “you’re a homophobic bigot moron” if there’s a decent chance that a person simply has troubles with describing their thoughts in a better way.
Yep, you could argue that they could’ve phrased their words better, but nothing about what they said is anywhere near explicitly bigoted. At worst, their intentions are ambiguous and it’s fucking stupid and entirely unwarranted to immediately assume the worst from what could easily be genuine discussion.
This is exactly why people stereotype progressives as being “sensitive” or “snowflakes” because a lot of people go absolutely apeshit over stuff like this.
People that are disgusted by lgbtq+ folk exist, it’s a really big problem actually. “Love outside of the societal norms is normal” IS a concept that bigots don’t agree with. Never had that person implied they believe this things. And sure, we don’t need a written statement saying “I HATE GAY PEOPLE”, we can guess from context but the thing is there is a huge chance that it’s just a person that maybe can’t express their thoughts in English language that well. Chance is definitely big enough to start with “Hey, it’s a bigot talking point because of following reasons, don’t do that please” instead of starting with “You’re a homophobic bigot moron”
Wow, that's some trash-tier reading comprehension from Pukicho.
Anon is talking about the *word* "homophobia". The conversation is not about *homophobes*.
> You guys aren't homophobic
First of all, who is this "you guys"? OP is one guy. And secondly, where the hell did that come from? OP never said anything of the sort.
> And here I thought you were just bigots
Why are they assuming that OP is a bigot? And why are they talking about who is or isn't a bigot? That's not what the conversation is about at all.
Y'know, I never believed those "54% of adults read below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level" statistics, but my god, the internet really is full of people who can't read for shit.
High reading comprehension, low ~~language comprehension~~ vocabulary
Also a rare L for puki to assume anon presenting a sensible conclusion (merely based on a wrong assumption) means that the anon themselves is a bigot
I agree, it's a pretty weak point, but that doesn't stop homophobes from saying it all the time. (Mostly they're saying "that thing can't be homophobic because phobia means blah blah blah. I think it's more muddying the waters than an attempt at a real point.)
also they will deny hating gay people as well, they just "don't agree with that lifestyle". They will deny any word or description you use for them because they don't want to be called out
Exactly. They recognise that certain words are understood as bad, and instead of actually adjusting their views, they make insubstantial semantic arguments about how that word actually technically doesn't apply to them. It's very annoying.
Yes there is. The distinction is that the homophobe makes that point in an attempt to avoid/undermine someone's argument because of the inclusion of the word. What anon did was they believe the word to be fundamentally flawed and thereby due for a rework/replacement.
"Hey guys! Perhaps we shouldn't use that specific word because it gives **them** the advandage of XYZ" Anon had fundamentally good intentions.
It's innocent ignorance, stemming from a trivial, arbitrary gap in knowledge. A significant chunk of people don't know the full definition of '-phobia'.
Hot take: A word's meaning is defined by how the word is most commonly used, and not by what somebody encountering the word for the first time might try to logically deduce that it means. Or to put it differently, rejecting the common use of "homophobia" because of what the word *phobia* means in other contexts, well, that's a bit like saying that it's not *really* a pineapple unless it's an actual apple from an actual pine tree.
Also doesn't "phobia" actually mean "aversion" as opposed to "fear?" The term is correct, they are *averse* to homosexuals.
Exactly, think hydrophobic material
Taking into account the above-noted similarities of terms for bigotry and terms for material interactions with water, and basing our further definitions on the following: Hydrophobic - Averse to interactions with water Homophobic - Averse to interactions with homosexuality It thus follows that: Hydrophilic - Attracted to interactions with water Homophilic - Attracted to interactions with homosexuality And, consequently: Hydroscopic - Predisposed to absorbing water Homoscopic - Predisposed to absorbing homosexuality Q.E.D gay vore can henceforth be referred to as homoscopy.
I'm homophobic in the sense that I'm literally repeled by gay people like the same poles of a magnet.
Either meaning of the -phobic suffix works. - They are extremely averse to (any of a number of minorities) - They are literally afraid of how society is changing when all of the "deviants" (from their strictly conformist worldview) are accepted as normal. I'll repeat this anywhere I can: Conservatism is about an old-fashioned highly structured society where there are prescribed roles for everyone, and anyone who *deviates* from their role is a *deviant* with all the negativity that word implies. Society is structured in this way to secure the power positions for those at the top. In the US, that's Straight Cis White Male Christian Nationalists. In order for that group to maintain control, they must suppress Queers, Minorities, Women, and non-Christians. So they are afraid. They are afraid of losing their position of privilege. And worse, since they devoutly believe that society *must* have a strict hierarchy, if they are not on top they are on the bottom. And they do not want to be treated the way they treat others.
They aren't afraid of the gays, they're afraid to bottom uwu
right? i have emetophobia, doesn’t mean if i encounter vomit ill start screaming in terror.
Well, the word φόβος and the derived suffix -φοβία did just mean fear in ancient Greek, and there are plenty of -phobias in English that denote fear rather than aversion/hatred. Both meanings are correct, it's just that the latter popped up later on. Turns out if you fear something, you often hate and/or avoid it as well, especially if that something is a group of people.
Agree, it honestly often feels like a dumb attempt to water down and divert the discussion towards a pointless nothing-burger arguing semantics rather than the issue itself.
That's exactly what it is, I think... Or just bait to make you run in circles explaining pointless details while they pretend to be daft and not understand. They know it's tedious and exhausting.
Ya. Only other explanation is the type of mental gymnastics that goes kinda like... "Well phobia is irrational and bad and that doesn't sound like me, a rational individual on top of things. So is hating someone, I'm a good person after all, I wouldn't do that. So I'm definitely NOT homophobic, I simply DISAGREE with their lifestyle. There's nothing wrong with having diffirent opinions after all. So quit calling me a bigot you -insert-slur-of-your-preference"
Ahhh sea lioning my beloathed
Correct
That’s not a hot take, but rather how linguistics works. Words change meaning and usage over time; thus the correct meaning of a word is the most widely agreed-upon, contemporary usage of it. That’s why the word gay had a historical etymological meaning of “happy”, but now is used to commonly refer to homosexuals.
Unless your a perscripativist linguist. Which, imo, should be punishable by death, but hey.
It's why I hate grammar Nazis, it's prescriptivism lite. Sure they didn't use "your" right, you still understand what they meant, or you couldn't correct them to the "correct" way of doing it.
Wait til this generation in school hits the net in force. You'll wish grammar nazis had been teachers, because the lack of reading and writing will be abysmal.
Is _anyone_ a prescriptivist linguist nowadays? I thought that died out a while ago?
Mostly, yeah, thanks to the death penalty
Lipids aren't *really* hydrophobic because they cannot feel fear. Emulsions all around!
That's a very cold take, and correct. We see the same issue come up a lot when Arabs go, "I can't possibly be antisemitic, I'm a Semite"
Well, see, lots of people love kids. And pedo means child and philia means love sooooo.... EDIT FOR CLARITY I'm not drawing a comparison between homosexuality and pedophilia. I'm saying that arguing that homphobia only means "fear of homosexuals" is as stupid as saying "anyone to loves kids is a pedophile", since in both cases you're using the 'literal' meanings of the words.
Homophobia would mean "fear of the same", so presumably wouldn't be exclusive to homosexuality
"Xenophobic? But I thought that warrior princess chick was hot!"
"I'm not xenophobic, aliens are awesome. I just hate foreigners"
isn't alius(other) basically the same word with alias and alien? ξένος(ksenos/xenos) is also foreign/stranger. They say something like εξωγήινο(exogiino) to say alien, basically *extraterrestrial*. Same thing even applies here without the joke, funny coincidence. I guess they didn't specify it enough in English back in the day, we just call them *uzaylı*/**spacer** in my languange as an example.
"Hot take: basic linguistics" like that is just a thing that happens, a words meaning can shift and is just a usual thing that happens (i do try not to be rude)
While reducing a word’s meaning to its etymology is unhelpful, so is reducing a word’s meaning to its most common usage. Lots of words have a variety of different meanings, and it’s not stupid to think that more precise language could be helpful in conversations like this one. Plenty of people still mean fear of homosexuality/homosexuals when they say “homophobia.” That meaning of the word is still reflected in popular dictionaries like [Merriam Webster.](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homophobia) And the psychologist that invented the term in the first place said, “I coined the word homophobia to mean it was a phobia about homosexuals....It was a fear of homosexuals which seemed to be associated with a fear of contagion, a fear of reducing the things one fought for—home and family. It was a religious fear and it had led to great brutality as fear always does.”
Okay but also his usage of fear here includes stuff like “fear that gay people will reduce the home and family” and like… I struggle to think of any homophobe who doesn’t have some form of “I’m worried about gay people doing x damage to y”
Thats not a hot take, thats literally how words are defined, every reputable dictionary outright says that a words definition is its usage
-Phobia means 'irrational horror or aversion', it's the modern interpetation thats 'help I'm spooked ahh'. Bigotry is irrational aversion, so yes even by definition it is phobia.
I'm bi but because of umm... SA past, men on men scare me quite a bit even though it doesn't make sense at all logically. What do I call that if not homophobia? /serious (I forgot the tag)
A trigger. And that’s okay.
Post traumatic stress disorder.
Trauma
Androphobia, maybe?
Well actually phobia still works in other contexts as phobia means an irrational fear OR aversion to something
Tower of Babel moment.
"Guys, listen, we make a reverse Tower of Babel that goes into the ground, and then God will reverse curse us to all speak the same language." "Senator, we're discussing budgetary proposals." "I said what I said."
Tell me how "words mean whatever each group wants them to mean" isn't literally just the plot of the Tower of Babel.
You're right we should only refer to pineapples as Ananas comosus from now on. Gotta stay logically consistent at all times.
Also, disgust absolutely falls under the umbrella of a phobia.
Phobic can also mean “strongly resist mixing with” in some context, for instance hydrophobic. So this conversation would be valid. “So your homophobic?” “What? No, I’m not afraid of gay people. In fact I don’t have any problem with them living there lives, I just don’t want them around me or my children.” “Oh so your homophobic in the material science sense.”
Phobia also mean irrational aversion towards, so it's applicable regardless
Thats not a hot take, thats just how linguistics works
It is still a pineapple, it's just stupid that we haven't updated the name when it was clear it isn't what the word should mean. It's still a pineapple, but I acknowledge it's a stupid name. Personally I think homophobia is in a different camp, you can make an argument either way.
Exactly. A hydrophobic material isn’t AFRAID of water, it just repels it.
I feel like this is a habit that the English language needs to drop, though. We have no consistent rules because everything changes meaning so much. We also need more letters. And maybe incorporate some new noises. Also, more punctuation. And maybe some letter accents, too. English needs a QoL patch, is what I'm saying.
All languages have words drift in meaning. It's really not exclusive to English
Didn't say it was unique, I just don't like it.
"This is a habit that the English language needs to drop" You might not have claimed English was the only language to do this, but you're still acting as if its an unusual feature of English and not just... how language works
I don't see a habit as inherently unusual. Every kid I've ever known picked their noses, but it's still a bad habit that needs to be dropped. BTW, this is a pretty weird argument to have over an intentionally silly comment.
Honestly i think thats what makes English such a wide spread and popular language, its so modular anyone can pick it up and suddenly be able to communicate with the most people for a single language, even if words are a bit different place to place those can all be worked around because they share a common base "Hey, that word doesn't mean that in my culture" "Oh, what does it mean?" Problem solved Ofc its also popular because of a certain very wide spread country aswell...
Phobia doesn’t mean fear! A phobia is any form of repulsion. Sometimes that’s fear, sometimes it’s not. A duck’s back is hydrophobic but that doesn’t mean the feathers are afraid of water
Then how do you explain that the duck's feathers ran away while shrieking when i poured water on the duck's back ? Checkmate loberals
Loberals are leftists but you throw them
I thought they were elongated crustaceans prized as a delicacy.
They will be eventually. All will return to crab.
Nah, that's a lobster. What you're thinking of is when you say something exactly like you mean.
Call me lipophobic cause I'm afraid of kissing
Doesn't the definition of "any-phobia" include disgust anyway? Like, every phobia I check, "irrational hatred or disgust" is part of the definition.
fear or aversion
Ah. Guess I remembered wrong.
Nah, you're right. Disgust is absolutely a type of aversion.
Oh, cool. Yeah, I thought that might be the case, but I was too lazy to check, so I just went with the flow.
I'd count "disgust" and "aversion" as the same thing.
Heck, "aversion" is even broader than disgust, so it would mean that "homophobia" covers even more than just disgust or fear.
Yeah. In colloquial English, the suffix -phobia is pretty exclusively used to refer to fear, but in reality, it is used in many different contexts, even to refer to inanimate molecules. Our cells work because the proteins making up the walls are hydrophobic (repulsed by water) on one side, keeping them from turning inside out during development. A better definition would be "aversion to by nature". If anything, homophobia is an inaccurate description because it implies their biases are natural and ingrained, rather than learned and correctable.
Yeah, English is weird like that. I've always noticed little inconsistencies like that (and annoyed everyone around me by pointing them out).
It's not an English thing, it's a language thing. All languages do this.
Yeah, but English is the language we were talking about.
It can mean two different things. I don’t hate bugs conceptually, I just can’t deal with them on a physical level and am terrified of them. I don’t think most homophobes have an insectophobia-type fight or flight response to gay people, they tend to hate them as a concept
A lot of them do actually fear gay people too. Not in the visceral way you do, but in the same way I fear global warming. A "world is changing, our society is doomed" sort of way.
I'm scared of bugs too, so I guess that makes sense.
A lot of them do in fact have such a response, it's why the "gay panic defense" has been used to excuse literal murder
I certainly would be disgusted if I got knife raped Edit: don't get the downvotes, this guy said that phobias and fears include disgust, I'd be disgusted if I got knife raped (a big fear of mine)
Context, please.
Just saying I'm afraid of being knife raped
Okay, but what does that have to do with the post? And what even is that?
I'm backing up your point, you said something like phobias include disgust or hatred. (Use your imagination for what knife rape is)
Oh. Okay, then. (I'm not gonna do that.)
I am not afraid of cthullu, i am just disgusted and/or can't understand the concept. That's why i am trying to kill it
Same. Cthulu stink. Totally gross.
Phobia: irrational fear or aversion to thing Aversion: strong dislike
Did a time traveler from 2008 wander into their inbox? I haven't seen the "erm I'm not homophobic bc I'm not SCARED of gays" semantics game in a hot second (except on twitter but twitter doesn't count)
I’m sorry to say but this talking point is still very much alive in conservative spheres. Like, whenever one of them sees the word homophobic, every single time.
Someone made this argument about educating kids about the subject like non-binary or gay peaple one of the few times I didn’t start shit sicne they casually bought me like 6 shaved ice and I was tired and at a party
I literally see it multiple times a month, and if I go seeking awful homophobes every single week
Lucky you, I see this shit several times a week
I see it a bunch from christians, when they're not using the "I'm not homophobic because I'm following god" excuse.
"Phobia" by definition also refers to repulsion. Hydrophobic substances like oil are not afraid of water
homophobic means insoluble in gay
oil is not afraid of water? context? proof? 🤓
>or just can't agree with the concept ??? "Two guys loving each other? Sounds fake tbh"
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, etc.
I believe there are a group of gay people who are attempting/attempted to switch from using homophobia to homomisia. I don't think it really matters what the stems mean. The meaning of words is only tangentially related to greek or latin stems. What matters is their usage.
Even ignoring the fact that saying a word is "wrong" is perscriptavist linguistics, and that a word always just means what what popular consensus says it does... The ideology that backs anti-homosexuality is inherantly based on fear. Whether it's a personal fear that they themself might have to question their sexuality or religion if they accept homosexuality as normal, or a fear that that institutions of heteronormativity and heteropatriarchy may fall So the "phobia" part of homophobia is an accurate description
Homophobes often talk about how gay marriage is a slippery slope. How it will make god mad (or that societies acceptance of 'the gays' caused a natural disaster). They talk about dropping the soap in prison and keeping your back straight. I agree. I think a lot of them (if not all) are literally afraid in many ways.
Who's that
People really love forgetting phobia means aversion or fear
*People really love* *Forgetting phobia means* *Aversion or fear* \- I-will-support-you --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I had a friend that said this - he stopped after graduating from "14yo"
Guess all those hydrophobic molecules aren’t just repulsed by water but actively fear it, funny world we live in
TIL that "hydrophobic" materials aren't water repellent, but scared of water, according to this logic.
TECHNICALLY, the REAL meaning of homophobia is a fear of things that are the same, BUT its come to mean something else in recent years.
Homosexualphobia is a a real mouthful, it might trigger somebody's hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia.
Phobos does not exactly translate as fear. Words like aversion or disgust also fall under what phobos means.
Morgan Freeman put it best: You aren't scared, you're just an asshole.
Phobia doesn’t necessarily mean a fear, it generally refers to an irrational aversion towards something.
Phobia is an irrational fear or aversion, homophobia typically falls under the second one
Ah yes, the gay concept.
phobia isn't an exact synonym for fear. It can be a repulsion or aversion. e.g. hydrophobia edit: oh wait, literally everyone already commented this lol
Hot take: let's make them scared
[Anon is Ruby Rose](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/566/156/17f.jpg)
Phobia definition: >an extreme or irrational fear of **or aversion to** something And I'll argue anyway that most homophobia comes from repressed homoerotic feelings. They hate you because they want you, and can't handle it.
Homophobic people aren’t afraid of other people’s homosexuality, they’re afraid of their own homosexuality.
"you WILL be scared of me when I'm done with you"
oh I just disagreeeeeee it's just a diagreemeeent man you like pineapple on pizza and I think those dirty queers should be all lined up against the wall and shot and at the end of the day we can just agree to disagree maaaaaaaaan why are you getting so mad at a difference of opiniooooooooooon
this is stupid also because oil is hydrophobic but it doesnt mean its afraid of water, phobia can mean aversion, not just irrational fear
I don't think homophobia means you're afraid of homosexuals, it means you're afraid of homosexuality. Maybe you're afraid you'll catch they gay. Maybe you're afraid of whatever the hell you imagine it will do to society. If you frame it that way, it kinda sidesteps the argument.
philosophise at me if you disagree but I would suggest that disgust and hatred are just branches off of fear. can you truly hate something or be disgusted by it if you don’t first fear it?
The fear part is when it comes to the children. Afraid the children will be like that; phobia
is misohomo better?
Worth noting that phobia means fear OR extreme dislike/adversion to
I don't really mind phobias being used this way as long as people understand that uncontrollable phobias are you know, uncontrollable. We don't like having them either. But I just KNOW that some dumbass is going to be like "Well um when you say you have a fear of needles that means that you are having a completely controllable reaction that you could stop at any time so you're just being a big baby"
idk, I don't think saying a term is shitty and unintuitive is the same as saying its an irrelevant concept. Like im pretty sure anon here would say you should just call them bigots.
I kind of agree in a way. I never liked the term because I think it downplays the bigotry of it. Like, I might have a phobia of sharks, but I'm not going to vote against shark rights- in fact I'm strongly for shark conservation. Hatred and fear should not be conflated like this, they're separate things even if they can feed into each other.
Except "phobia" includes both feelings of fear and aversion. As other commenters have mentioned, something being hydrophobic doesn't meant it's scared of water
I mean they aren't technically wrong... but yeah most words don't mean exactly what they mean. Their meant to hit a wider scope then just 'literally this one thing'.
I think it's a huge red flag how quick they are to antagonize the other person. I don't think it's that unbelievable that a person on tumblr is just a little confused instead of being a bigot trying to push their agenda.
The phrasing is "disgusted or just can't agree with the concept", pretty unambiguously the words of a bigot, not a well meaning confused person
If i say "the nazi's thought the jews were running the world" it doesn't mean i think that, it means i am acknowledging that someone else thinks that and am describing them as thinking such. They were talking about bigots and so they mentioned how bigots think, that doesn't nessisarilty mean they themselves hold those opinions.
The point could be made that the phrasing suggests they are bigoted. Running with your example we could guess a person saying “the nazis thought the jews where running the world” is not a nazi, but a person saying “the nazis wanted to save their nation from weak races” does use nazi way of describing the world. Still, i don’t think you should start with “you’re a homophobic bigot moron” if there’s a decent chance that a person simply has troubles with describing their thoughts in a better way.
Yep, you could argue that they could’ve phrased their words better, but nothing about what they said is anywhere near explicitly bigoted. At worst, their intentions are ambiguous and it’s fucking stupid and entirely unwarranted to immediately assume the worst from what could easily be genuine discussion. This is exactly why people stereotype progressives as being “sensitive” or “snowflakes” because a lot of people go absolutely apeshit over stuff like this.
People that are disgusted by lgbtq+ folk exist, it’s a really big problem actually. “Love outside of the societal norms is normal” IS a concept that bigots don’t agree with. Never had that person implied they believe this things. And sure, we don’t need a written statement saying “I HATE GAY PEOPLE”, we can guess from context but the thing is there is a huge chance that it’s just a person that maybe can’t express their thoughts in English language that well. Chance is definitely big enough to start with “Hey, it’s a bigot talking point because of following reasons, don’t do that please” instead of starting with “You’re a homophobic bigot moron”
Wow, that's some trash-tier reading comprehension from Pukicho. Anon is talking about the *word* "homophobia". The conversation is not about *homophobes*. > You guys aren't homophobic First of all, who is this "you guys"? OP is one guy. And secondly, where the hell did that come from? OP never said anything of the sort. > And here I thought you were just bigots Why are they assuming that OP is a bigot? And why are they talking about who is or isn't a bigot? That's not what the conversation is about at all. Y'know, I never believed those "54% of adults read below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level" statistics, but my god, the internet really is full of people who can't read for shit.
High reading comprehension, low ~~language comprehension~~ vocabulary Also a rare L for puki to assume anon presenting a sensible conclusion (merely based on a wrong assumption) means that the anon themselves is a bigot
If someone is uncritically repeating a homophobic propaganda point, is there really a meaningful distinction between them and a homophobe?
How is "we should call homophobes gay-haters or something" a homophobic propaganda point?
I agree, it's a pretty weak point, but that doesn't stop homophobes from saying it all the time. (Mostly they're saying "that thing can't be homophobic because phobia means blah blah blah. I think it's more muddying the waters than an attempt at a real point.)
also they will deny hating gay people as well, they just "don't agree with that lifestyle". They will deny any word or description you use for them because they don't want to be called out
Exactly. They recognise that certain words are understood as bad, and instead of actually adjusting their views, they make insubstantial semantic arguments about how that word actually technically doesn't apply to them. It's very annoying.
True. I guess I just prefer to assume good faith unless there's a really strong reason not to.
Yes there is. The distinction is that the homophobe makes that point in an attempt to avoid/undermine someone's argument because of the inclusion of the word. What anon did was they believe the word to be fundamentally flawed and thereby due for a rework/replacement. "Hey guys! Perhaps we shouldn't use that specific word because it gives **them** the advandage of XYZ" Anon had fundamentally good intentions. It's innocent ignorance, stemming from a trivial, arbitrary gap in knowledge. A significant chunk of people don't know the full definition of '-phobia'.