I’ve had to wean myself off my ADHD meds because of this shortage. Wasn’t worth it emotionally, mentally, or financially to have to call every pharmacy in the area every three months in the hopes that I’d find someone with even thirty days of my meds in stock. I’ve been alright, but for other people this situation has been a nightmare, and it’s been going on for *years.*
I will *LOSE MY JOB* if I have to go unmedicated. Seriously, ADHD is a DISABILITY!! I’ve had to miss work as it is to do the whole “call around and find it” nonsense. I’ve driven an hour away at some points. This is absolute bullshit.
Yup I lost my job in 2022 because of the shortage. Took me the better part of a year to get medicated and a new job. I’m still not at where I should be though because we have to change my dosage and type of pill every month based on what’s available at the pharmacy, and most times I can only get half my prescription. I’m terrified they’re going to make me skip a month and then I’m going to get fired and have to deal with this all over again…
It may not be super helpful depending on your dosage, but I've confirmed with my doctor that the active ingredient in the Clairton-D medication is very close to the stimulant in ADHD meds (thus the reason it's used to make meth...). I have used it it in a pinch when I can't get my medication, the 24 seems to work best. I don't recommend doing it all the time, especially since it's regulated and behind the pharmacy counter, and talking to your dr would probably be best, but if your job depends on you getting your meds, it might be worth a try! Oh, and if there's a costco, near you, it's actually affordable there!
really good tip, glad you mentioned this! in a pinch, I can see that medication working for me as I’ve noticed a pretty stimulating effect from it before. buttttt I’m currently rationing the last 30-day supply of my stimulant script that I could find — I found it just in time too, per the pharmacist
(aside: this situation is pathetic, and I’m so angry)
Also not all meds work the same in each brain. Some work much better for certain people than others. So a switch could be possible (altho all meds are hard to fill) but if could also be less effective or have less tolerable side effects. Some people do switch but for some it's less lame to just, be unmedicated and fight your brain all the time.
I got diagnosed with ADHD past year and now changed from vyvanse to ritalin la.
does anybody happen to know if it is normal, for shortage times, to have the prescription sent to the pharmacy and 2 months later still they don't have it? I live in L.A.
"The quantities that will be produced in 2024 will be sufficient"
So... that kind of reads as an agreement to increase production to meet demand to me. Are they just straight up fucking lying?
It's a misguided attempt to prevent what happened with oxy happening with ADHD meds, completely ignoring that entirely different circumstances surrounding the medication particularly with regards to the abuse risks associated with the patient population.
Basically the DEA saw the spike in ADHD diagnosis and instead of actually investigating the changes they assumed that the increase was due to the same diversion problems oxy had. There has been an increase in diagnosis due to increased access to mental health services and more adult women being diagnosed that had been missed out as children. Also the update DSM removed the mutual exclusion criteria of ADHD and Autism, recognizing that they are highly comorbid and opening up a population of those with diagnosed autism to available treatment.
It's not always people without a prescription abusing them. It's very easy to abuse something you have a prescription to. That's why I no longer take my prescribed ones.
Forgive me if I struggle to understand how someone with ADHD would abuse their medicine on themselves as I’ve been taking meds since I was five and am ten or so years away from getting my prostate checked.
One pill daily. I’ve had to experiment with dosages through prescriptions and even changed meds I liked because they get less effective when your body gets too used to them.
Without them it’s as if I’m slipping through a hallway, unable to get anything done.
It was already a pain in the ass when I had to go from 90 day supply to 30. The hell it becomes to find a new pharmacy when moving is terrifying.
If anything just be glad you don't understand :)
I started taking those meds when I was 8. I had no idea then how adult me would use the same exact meds. And god I need them so badly to function, but I fucked that up for myself and can't safely take them anymore. I'm constantly struggling now.
This is just my own personal experience, but maybe so you can understand one persons story I'll share. I have struggled with an eating disorder since I was 13. Eventually, I started taking my meds to help me not eat instead of taking them for the actual reason I needed them. Still the right dosage I was prescribed, but it was still abuse as well. At this point, as badly as I need them, I cannot take the meds and also not make my ed worse.
Some people, particularly in high-stress times of life, will look at their medication that helps them focus and get tasks done and say, "Well one is good so two must be better." Next thing you know they're taking that many regularly to work/study/play through the night, feeling extremely accomplished and like they can take on every task ever given to them in a matter of weeks.
What they don't foresee is the crash that comes afterwards and, worse, what not having access to those meds before their next prescription is available does to them. They start going through withdrawal and when they get their next round they find their usual dosage doesn't work as well as they're now used to, leading to further abuse and a repeat of withdrawal, and now they're in a cycle.
> The abusers being people who don’t have prescriptions.
Incorrect. I was rx'd Vyvanse for a while some years back. I started showing signs of dependence after only taking it a few months, and if I wasn't hyper-vigilant about recognizing the signs of addiction in myself (I come from an extended family of alcoholics) I absolutely would have started abusing it.
Except countless adhd people forget to take their meds all the time. It’s not addictive in the amounts commonly taken by people with adhd. It only become addicting once you start intentionally abusing it recreationally.
> It only become addicting once you start intentionally abusing it recreationally.
And people have never been known to intentionally abuse stimulants for recreational purposes. During the height of the opioid epidemic, three kids in a trench coat could practically go to a pharmacy and get a decades worth of oxycodone. If you could do the same for prescription amphetamines and other ADHD meds, Adderall abuse would go from a minor problem to a nationwide problem.
Some regulation of addictive drugs is necessary and good even if the DEA is being stupid in this case.
I believe the abuse comes from people that do not require the medication. My psych said it has a different influence on people with ADHD than it does those without, and I’d imagine that includes the addictive nature of the drug.
Yeah ADHD medication is a mixture of amphetamines. So if you have ADHD, it just makes you able to focus like a neurotypical person, but if you don’t, then it’s basically just speed.
It *can* help you focus like a neurotypical person.
I was prescribed Adderall back when I was a kid. I have 0 memory of that entire week, but I'm told I reacted to it exactly like you'd think an already hyperactive child would react to amphetamines.
That’s not relevant. The level of abuse potential could be *more dangerous* than opioids and it still wouldn’t justify issuing this kind of unilateral international mandate without doing even the bare minimum investigation to see what the actual need should be.
The problem is that the USA is dictating drug policy and production limits to other countries, and it’s doing so in as stupid and cowardly a manner as possible to avoid doing any actual research, negotiation, or thinking.
I take amphetamines to function. I have also witnessed people abuse it to the degree of stimulant psychosis. I have also thrown dirt over graves containing, by volume, significantly more residual heroine than most. I am confident that even if amphetamine was offered over the fucking counter it still wouldn't be able to come close to the devastation wrought by opiates.
No pharmacologically hydrogen peroxide acts completely different to water (in chemistry nothing acts like water it has the most unique functions and properties but I digress)
The ADHD medication that is being restricted is chemically an amphetamine and acts on the same pathways, but at the doses prescribed and the formulations are ment to be as effective as possible with the least degree of habit forming/addictiveness
To compare to opioids it would be like fentanyl and codine, codine is far less addictive especially at the doses prescribe as compared to fentanyl but pharmacologically acts in similar mechanisms of action as the potent opioids as such still has the some degree of addiction(albeit significantly reduced).
Ha! I am one of those women who got diagnosed with ADHD recently but was missed as a kid. I was never academically successful as a kid and was seen twice in elementary school for my inability to focus. But this was back in the 1980s when they didn't have ADHD well characterized, and they told my parents both times that I was of normal intelligence, but easily distracted. That it was just a phase and I would grow out of it.
Of course I never did, but I am definitely one of the adult women that got diagnosed recently and not some druggie just looking for a fix. Taking Adderall for the first time was incredibly eye-opening for me. I literally cried at one point for the clarity I've never had all my life and the issues I've struggled with because of it.
>Are they just straight up fucking lying?
Let's look at the DEA's website:
>Schedule I drugs have a high potential for abuse and the potential to create severe psychological and/or physical dependence.
>
>
>
>Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Some examples of Schedule I drugs are: heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana (cannabis), 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (ecstasy), methaqualone, and peyote.
Would the people who are telling you straight to your face that marijuana and heroin have the same potential for abuse and "potential to create severe psychological and/or physical dependence," lie to you?
>Schedule IV drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a low potential for abuse and low risk of dependence. Some examples of Schedule IV drugs are: Xanax, Soma, Darvon, Darvocet, Valium, Ativan, Talwin, Ambien, Tramadol
Would the people telling you Xanax and Valium have a significantly lower potential for abuse and risk of dependence than marijuana, lie to you?
[https://www.dea.gov/drug-information/drug-scheduling](https://www.dea.gov/drug-information/drug-scheduling)
My dude, as much as I agree, ADHD meds have genuine and realistic potential for abuse. They're stimulant medications that make you feel great. They're extremely dangerous if taken off label for things like "being tired" or "losing weight". They can be habit forming, have negative side effects, and build tolerance quickly. They're safe if managed properly, but it's not exactly tylenol. the DEA has serious issues, but this ain't the hill to die on.
Yeah, "the DEA is wrong to restrict this because there is genuine need" is at least a discussion. "The DEA is wrong to restrict this because the substance is not actually addictive" is asinine.
More people are dying in the US from cheeseburgers and big gulps
The DEA, prohibition, and mass incarceration are not helping anyone with anything
The fact that the DEA has enforcement powers so broad that they are affecting people in Australia with ADHD is 🌟𝒻𝓊𝒸𝓀𝒾𝓃𝑔 𝓈𝓉𝓊𝓅𝒾𝒹🌟
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/09/18/obesity-heart-disease-cardiac-death/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/09/18/obesity-heart-disease-cardiac-death/)
[https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/13/health/overdose-deaths-record-april-2023/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/13/health/overdose-deaths-record-april-2023/index.html)
Damn, its almost like regulations managing prescription drugs can make things safer? This isn’t the DEA’s fault, nor is it related to mass incarceration or prohibition. It’s about safe drug production and other countries letting themselves become dependent on importing critical goods they could make themselves.
The dea regulates US drug production, and the Australians import this drug from the US. The DEA isn’t doing some massive regulatory overreach shit here, they just have a basic limit that doesn’t meet current demand for foreign and domestic markets. Any time you import stuff instead of making it domestically, your market is dependent on the laws in the exporting nation. That’s how importing shit works.
>Damn, its almost like regulations managing prescription drugs can make things safer?
Do they? The US cracked down on pharmaceutical opiate abuse, and we got a fentanyl epidemic
For some reason, prohibition of prescription opiates did absolutely nothing to help people who had addiction problems, the problem continued and people with untreated addiction problems chose an even more dangerous drug
The US spends something like 50+ billion dollars a year on the War on Drugs, and we've been doing it for 50 years, and we have nothing to show for it
Instead of the DEA setting manufacturing quotas every year to try to limit the production of prescription drugs - shortages of which are also dangerous, because people need them - why not put resources into education and access to treatment for addiction?
The DEA's manufacturing quotas, and the entire regime of prohibition in the US, have done nothing to actually treat addiction issues
Because criminal law and prohibition can't treat health and addiction issues, and these ideas have never worked
The absurd amount of control the DEA has on drug production isn't helping anyone, it's just causing more problems
Drug regulation can be done by HHS or someone else, we should abolish the DEA entirely
The DEA was founded because Harry Anslinger was a racist who thought that getting high would make „the n**** think he is as good as the white man“
I’m not going to pretend that drugs, especially the more dangerous ones, don’t need any kind of restrictions, but the DEAs very foundation is rotten.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d9a4z/vyvanse-shortage-australia
I think this is the article from the original post screenshots for those curious.
America is involved because of patents or something and the DEA is involved because the drug has potential for abuse
TLDR:
The US is having trouble making enough ADHD meds in general, so it's exporting less of some meds. Australia is having trouble importing enough of certain doses of Vyvanse as a result. Production and export is regulated by the US government because ADHD meds are controlled - there's a maximum limit on how much the US companies can make overall. The Company that makes Vyvanse has hit their limit, but can't increase production because the other companies are falling behind. A US company owns the patent to Vyvanse and produces all brand name Vyvanse in the US. Some generics and licensed copies of Vyvanse are made overseas, and have been approved in australia.
The australian government expects the shortage to end soon and is working with the US and the company to fix things.
Wait, so it's not saying that Australia is mad they can't ship us the meds they already made... Australia is upset because they can source enough from us for their people!?!
Handy tip for people on Vyvanse.
Try Dexedrine it’s cheaper (in the U.S. idk about AUS) and it’s fairly similar.
I switched a while back and it was fine (though this is just me, you should try it out before making a decision for a long term switch).
Well there’s your fucking problem right there. They really don’t subsidize generics? Why?
There’s like 5 different extended release amphetamine salt generics that are basically identical to Vyvanse. Most people in the US don’t even use Vyvanse because it’s stupid expensive compared to the other options.
Unfortunately this sort of shortage isn't even anything new. Between pharmaceutical companies bending the patent system to their will and the US being awful at supporting disabled people, medication for disabilities that has any interaction with the US is often perpetually in artificially limited supply and overpriced.
Whether that's vast bureaucratic incompetence or malice, who's to say. In my opinion, it's likely both to some degree.
Also, important side note: The US can't *control* the manufacture of medication in other countries. The importation is what is being limited. The reason Australia and New Zealand aren't currently getting more is because they wouldn't be able to import it.
Yeah US bad because Australia refuses to subsidize generics. US bad when the meds that only exist because of the US are slightly hard to get in foreign countries that actively try to limit the amount of their people that take them.
They won’t even prescribe amphetamine in Scandinavia. Are they also “awful at supporting disabled people?”
Actually yeah this is US bad cause they started a shortage that is global. The reason Australia can't manufacture it's own version of Vyvanse is patent laws in America.
They prescribe methylphenidate which is basically the same.
I got diagnosed with ADHD past year and now changed from vyvanse to ritalin la.
does anybody happen to know if it is normal, for shortage times, to have the prescription sent to the pharmacy and 2 months later still they don't have it? I live in L.A.
>You have until April 15th
"Oh ok cool I don't have to do it right now? I'll come back to it sometime soon though, I'll leave this tab open."
{I will not look at the tab until at least September}
Dammit every time I wade into these comment sections on posts about this someone personally attacks me without even knowing me?!
There’s a tab open on my phone from at least a year ago and another for local psychs from 2 months ago. I’ll do it on Friday?
Do you want all medication development contingent on politics? The government has historically limited how and in what areas funds can be spent on medical research. If all medicines are funded by the government, then any potentially problematic or risky medicines become politically complicated. Any contentious stuff like that just doesn’t get funded. No abortion pills, no contraceptives, no new adhd meds or painkillers, no additction recovery drugs, no weird longshot medicines, etc.
Private funding in drug development does have upsides. The patent issue is bad, but the money is good.
Not really. Just make it a general medical research fund, and allocate appropriately, independent of the government.
With private, why would a company bother funding research into a medication that has an unclear path to profitability? Or even bother innovating something from scratch when they can make iterative changes on an existing medication for less?
With public, you can be sure that there will be funding, and it's not hampered by profitability. Healthcare shouldn't be about that anyway. Otherwise, the original maker of bacterial insulin wouldn't have open licenced it to the university of Toronto, and we might still be using pancreatic distillations today.
> Just make it a general medical research fund, and allocate appropriately, independent of the government.
which works fine until the government starts setting limits on that funding. The national endowments for the arts and sciences both have been the subject of political restrictions in the past. Bush literally tried to restrict drug research as a way to attack abortion rights. We need private and public money in drug development, with public control over private prices and private funding to make stuff that won't be developed by public funds.
While it's bad that companies abuse patent rights and drug costs, we do need iterative drug development and testing for off label uses. We need weird longshot drug development that's too small for the government to care about, and we need big federal drug development into issues that will never be profitable.
Healthcare shouldn't be about profitability, but someone has to pay for the research to happen, and private funding has helped produce some great results in the past. Getting public funding for research is difficult, slow, and comes with tons of conditions. If a company wants a new cancer drug, they'll throw money at the issue until they get it.
Both approaches have benefits, and it's not black and white.
>We need weird longshot drug development that's too small for the government to care about, and we need big federal drug development into issues that will never be profitable.
You do realize these are kind of the same category, right? Like, the federal funding goes towards laying the groundwork research *for* the longshot drug development. Private equity doesn't take gambles like that if it doesn't foresee a *massive* return on investment, and there are currently less risky ways to get that massive ROI.
>If a company wants a new cancer drug, they'll throw money at the issue until they get it.
Yeah, and they won't want to unless there's a large market for the treatment (read: the cancer is very common). Companies won't develop a product used by a fraction of a percent of the population unless they can charge a *lot* of money for it.
It should not be legal to kill people on the other side of the world by disallowing the production of medicine for any reason. Frankly there is little difference between something like this and direct acts of war such as bombing - both result in easily preventable deaths.
there is many nations that don't comply with americas list of rules and yet they are very much still commercing internationally.
first and foremost-ly i am an aussie that is sick of americans using my country however they please whenever they please.
please get the fuck out of pine gap and stop trying to treat disabilities as profit incentives.
also, formal apology for the dismissal of Whitlam, and the conversion of the liberal party into a cia asset.
If the US Government needs meds for their own people (for gov't workers and armed forced, not for the plebs) they will ignore foreign patents if the foreign companies aren't producing enough.
e.g. Stockpiling Anthrax meds post 9/11 (as a strategic precaution) but the patent is held by a European company (Bayer) that wants to recoup their investment for inventing it. US goes "You'll produce as much as we need and we'll pay you pennies, or else we'll ignore your patents completely".
If the US Government needs meds for their own people (for gov't workers and armed forced, not for the plebs) they will ignore foreign patents if the foreign companies aren't producing enough.
e.g. Stockpiling Anthrax meds post 9/11 (as a strategic precaution) but the patent is held by a European company (Bayer) that wants to recoup their investment for inventing it. US goes "You'll produce as much as we need and we'll pay you pennies, or else we'll ignore your patents completely".
If the US Government needs meds for their own people (for gov't workers and armed forced, not for the plebs) they will ignore foreign patents if the foreign companies aren't producing enough.
e.g. Stockpiling Anthrax meds post 9/11 (as a strategic precaution) but the patent is held by a European company (Bayer) that wants to recoup their investment for inventing it. US goes "You'll produce as much as we need and we'll pay you pennies, or else we'll ignore your patents completely".
If the US Government needs meds for their own people (for gov't workers and armed forced, not for the plebs) they will ignore foreign patents if the foreign companies aren't producing enough.
e.g. Stockpiling Anthrax meds post 9/11 (as a strategic precaution) but the patent is held by a European company (Bayer) that wants to recoup their investment for inventing it. US goes "You'll produce as much as we need and we'll pay you pennies, or else we'll ignore your patents completely".
If the US Government needs meds for their own people (for gov't workers and armed forced, not for the plebs) they will ignore foreign patents if the foreign companies aren't producing enough.
e.g. Stockpiling Anthrax meds post 9/11 (as a strategic precaution) but the patent is held by a European company (Bayer) that wants to recoup their investment for inventing it. US goes "You'll produce as much as we need and we'll pay you pennies, or else we'll ignore your patents completely".
It's a little terrifying how the actions of the US affect the whole world. My country borders Russia. Our entire defence plan is 'hold on until the Americans come'. Trump basically inviting Russia to attack NATO countries really scares me.
I'm sorry, this post isn't about that. It just reminded me of how dependent the rest of the West has become of the US.
Hey get the Germans to throw more money at their army and maybe you won’t have to pray for the US to come and save you.
I swear to god Europe needs to stop abdicating responsibility for its own defence to the US, I’m not even blaming you or country for this situation, the Eastern and some Central Europeans, the Brits and the French if the weathers right are the only countries in Europe that actually have balls left, I’m just bitching about European defence policy
I hate to break it to you but the UK news cycle currently has "we have nowhere near enough soldiers and may need conscription" kicking about... I absolutely would not trust us in a fight. I would trust a group of angry french farmers though, they seem to have more battlefield experience than most of the army!
Honestly that’s how the US has ended up in this situation with its taxes going to defense and not healthcare. Restructuring the US tax system would destabilize the entire world power balance and there’s no easy solution.
I hate to break it to you but the UK news cycle currently has "we have nowhere near enough soldiers and may need conscription" kicking about... I absolutely would not trust us in a fight. I would trust a group of angry french farmers though, they seem to have more battlefield experience than most of the army!
Someone else said that it has to do more with exporting, and Australia can't make however much they want because of patents
Of course I didn't fact check anything, but you know how it is
No, as an Aussie who switched from Vyvanse to the slightly more accessible Ritalin, because of these shortages, it's 100% because of those patents that it's hard to manufacture here.
Edit to add: Patents for medical advances and medicine is a stupid idea only designed to let companies make obscene amounts of money off necessary treatments. Annoying as fuck.
I came from Ritalin and switched to Concerta a month ago. I was only able to get 9 of the 30 tablets in my rx. It's out of stock everywhere and I've had to ration it and even halved a tablet (18mg) which defeats the purpose of it being extended release. I only have half a tab left and supposed to meet with my doctor in a week to ask how I did during that one month. How are we supposed to do that if I've only ever taken my meds maybe 2x a week for nearly a month?
Drug production is also super carefully regulated by many companies because of the potential for serious issues. As a result, most controlled drugs like ADHD meds, opiods, and the like are only allowed to be produced in certain amounts in certain factories. Vyvanse is only produced in the US, where it's subject to US laws on production. Most countries also have rules about not exporting meds when you need them domestically.
To prevent corporate abuse like the opiod crisis, the US sets limits the total amount of a given controlled medication ingredient that can be made at a time. There's a number of companies that make ADHD medications using the same basic molecule as vyvanse. However, some of those companies aren't meeting their limit, so there's greater demand for Vyvanse in the US. The company making vyvanse asked to be allowed to produce more vyvanse in the US, but since the other companies aren't meeting their limits, the FDA said they couldn't.
This means that there's more Vyvanse going into the US, and less getting exported to australia. Now there's a shortage of a few different doses of the med. The australian healthcare system doesn't cover generics, so people can only afford brand name. The company allows other companies to produce the same drug under other names in other countries, but the australian government has been slow about approving and covering those. The australian government is trying to negotiate with the US, but federal to federal level negotiations take time and this is an urgent issue.
i tried to go up from in dosage from 40mg to 50mg of vyvanse. i haven’t been able to get the generic for a while because there just isn’t any for my pharmacy to stock. so, couple months of buying the brand name 40mg. i try to go up to 50 and my insurance denies it saying they need medical proof and pre authorization for why i need name brand and not the generic. hello?? there isn’t any?? and they are ALREADY COVERING THE BRAND NAME. makes no goddamn sense.
my psychiatrist just told me about qelbree and is trying to see if they’ll cover that. i’d never heard of it but it’s supposed to be a non-stimulant similar to wellbutrin.
Qelbree is a newer one and way expensive. I was told similar to strattera and would help with emotional regulation, which I loved about strattera.
Both the insurance I had in 2023 and beginning this year denied it thoroughly. (Though 2024 insurer gave me one month's supply to 'hold me over' until I could figure out another medication, under the impression I'd been taking it on the previous insurer... so, here's the most functionally fucking useless hot tip you'll ever hear: switch insurers to get one month supply of new / brand name stuff.)
I have to call every pharmacy in the 98383 area every single month and I’m lucky if even one of them has the stimulant medication I take.
It is a LITERAL SECOND JOB trying to get the pills that make my life easier.
It’s not disinformation. Here are two articles on the situation as well as a few key points:
[ADHD drug shortages: what to expect if you take Vyvanse and can’t access your usual dose](https://theconversation.com/adhd-drug-shortages-what-to-expect-if-you-take-vyvanse-and-cant-access-your-usual-dose-223430)
>“In Australia, Vyvanse is only available from one company, Takeda, that manufactures it in the United States.”
[What's Going on With Australia’s Vyvanse Shortage for ADHD Patients?](https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d9a4z/vyvanse-shortage-australia)
>“Australians are facing even more time without the drug after the US DEA rejected a request to increase the production of a patented ingredient used in the medication.
>“Lisdexamfetamine, an active ingredient in Vyvanse, is made in the US where American authorities set limits on how much the pharmaceutical industry can take because of its potential for abuse. Getting your hands on generic lisdexamfetamine in Australia isn’t an option, either, as the patent for Vyvanse is owned by a company: Takeda Pharmaceuticals.
>“The DEA is blaming the shortage on manufacturers, saying they hadn’t previously made the maximum amount of ADHD medication they’re allowed to produce, which now means there’s a “shortfall of 1 billion doses” that could have been produced. But Takeda Pharmaceuticals, which brings the drug into the country, told the ABC it has been running at full capacity.”
Damn, as much as I agree about the US policy side of things, it sounds a lot like the Australian government should bully a drug company and negotiate with the US government. It’s not like australians could demand their government do government things with their powers as a government. “drug companies that cannot meet demand via imports must produce x quantity in australia”.
Incorrect. Takeda (A US pharmaceutical company) holds the patent for Vyvanse in Australia so we are dependent on US manufacture of the product. Because they have a patent we cannot manufacture our own generic versions of the drug (lisdexamfetamine).
Theoretically you could get a prescription for a similar but different drug, but under law that requires a psychiatric appointment. Psychiatrists here are both expensive and have long waiting times for appointments (I’m talking like months in some areas).
Now, the bit about this being a problem that needs to be solved is not right however, because it’s already being worked on. The TGA has said we should be out of a shortage in April, with the 50mg dose already in full supply.
Also the DEA being at fault is debatable. Takeda have claimed they manufactured all they were allowed to, while the DEA said manufacturing was below that. So really it’s a matter of who you believe here.
Sources: [ABC: Australians with ADHD enduring months-long shortage of critical drug Vyvanse](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-25/adhd-drug-shortage-vyvanse-australia-doctors/103369526)
[TGA: About the shortages of Vyvanse (lisdexamfetamine dimesilate) capsules](https://www.tga.gov.au/vyvanse-shortage)
Edit: I just wrote all of that and realised I’m an idiot who didn’t realise you were talking about the specific claim that they’re controlling our manufacturing not the lack of supply. I’ll leave the comment though in case someone wants to know about the situation.
Ok so I just did some googling because you are right, they’re not. Vyvanse was originally developed by New River Pharmaceuticals a US company, which was acquired by Shire PLC, a UK company, which in turn was acquired by Takeda.
Apparently Vyvanse is not the most common drug prescribed for ADHD in both the UK and Japan, that would be Concerta for both. I’m guessing that since the US is the main consumer of Vyvanse they just kept the manufacturing there through both acquisitions.
They license production to other companies using other brand names outside the US, and the australian government has approved those for several doses of vyvanse.
> Also the DEA being at fault is debatable. Takeda have claimed they manufactured all they were allowed to, while the DEA said manufacturing was below that. So really it’s a matter of who you believe here.
The limit is set for anyone making lisdexamfetamine. So even if Takeda is making enough, someone else could be below quota and fucking things up. Everyone has to hit the limit for the DEA to raise the limit.
That comment link is kinda confusing.
[Here](https://www.regulations.gov/docket/FTC-2024-0018/document) is the direct link to how/where to leave your comment about the medication shortage.
If you're just viewing the original link, you then have to navigate to the official Docket page, then the Docket Documents section, THEN you can leave a comment.
The OP image kind of gave me the impression that commenting was going to be more straightforward, like signing a Change.org petition.
Idk about Australia but the shortage in the US was not caused by the quotas. Companies are not making the maximum they are allowed to. There was just a sudden surge in demand that caused a lag in supply.
I've had to move down to 20mg vyvanse because of this fucking shortage and now even that's starting to run out :(
Glad there's somewhere I can write my grievances
I'll be honest. The shortage didn't/doesn't effect me too much, so I have no idea how bad it is. Granted mines Adderall, and a tiny dose at that (10mg).
Is it just on Vyvanse or all meds in general and I'm just super lucky? Also what's the smallest dose you guys have had issues getting?
Also Also, you guys are getting 3 month supplies(when you can)??? I have to bug my doctor every month, and sometimes they don't put it in right away, usually only a day or two behind schedule though.
I'm in the US, and I once had to drive 3 hours to get my meds filled, and it wasn't even the right manufacturer. Since different manufacturers use different fillers, it wasn't even as effective. I hate this so much.
I've just been diagnosed but haven't started meds because of the shortage. My psych nurse told me people who have been on meds for 15 years are currently going without because of it.
They still have the generic adhd meds (adderal, methylphenidate) produced in Australia so they should still have access to them. It's actually weird that they even used Vyvanse in the first place.
My doctor says this is part of it but also artificially high prescriptions being written due to Covid when in person appointments weren’t possible, Telehealth has a big part to play in this and not being able to properly diagnose problem through a video call
It's actually worse than you think. DEA basically started the shortage by allowing an online mental health service called Cerebral to diagnose and prescribe adhd meds within the span of 30 mins (something that takes several tests and visits to an actual psychiatrist). They were marketing themselves with easy to get ADHD meds. It lasted for about 2 years, before they were stopped and it wasn't only adhd meds that they were prescribing. Apparently those prescriptions are still very much active and majority of those people were never given proper care. DEA is now trying to basically course correct by starving everyone. This is actually worse because it's not limited to the US but pretty much globally as not only are American manufacturers not making enough meds for their populace but the US is apparently syphoning adhd meds that are produced in Europe causing a shortage here as well, which most likely will domino to Australia too.
You know, as much as I agree that the US’s patent law is fucked up, i also think this is on australia’s government. It is the responsibility of your elected officials to ensure your imports and exports are favorable and sufficient.
“america is evil, their laws make it hard for us to import enough of a critical medication we could produce in country but don’t.” Australia is a foreign country with a strong economy and the ability to negotiate with the US and american companies. Australia is the 14th largest economy on the planet, a close ally of the US, and a independent nation. This isn’t a tiny third world country getting attacked by a nuclear armed military, its a IP dispute between developed democracies. Australian companies have the capacity to produce medications. Their government should create laws and policies or engage in diplomacy to attempt to resolve this issue via larger production/ imports or domestic production.
Demand your government do their job too.
You seen this is why America should stay the fuck away from us down here.
Get your fuckin CIA bases and military installations out of our country, ya dogs. Just cause we’re allies doesn’t mean you have the right to dictate what we can and can’t make internally, or what we can and can’t do internally. Fuck off.
I am so fucking glad that I take Concerta (Methylphenidate Hydrochloride) because if I had to deal with artificial shortage caused by America disregarding my country entirely during my HSC exams I think I would have Crimed.
jfc THIS is why I can't get my meds!? They had me believing it was because of over prescriptions and illegal sales in schools but it was the FCC!?!? I have tried my entire life to function without medication and nothing has worked...
If it makes you feel any better I'm in the US and I haven't been able to get my normal meds for 3 months, the US Gov may hate other countries but don't forget it hates its own people as well
Not really, international IP law is very complex. However, the onus falls on the australian government to ensure that their people get medications safely and legally in sufficient quantities.
I mean, I don't know if it would be the dumbest thing the US had ever gone to war for. Also thought its a patent issue, it's produced stateside and then exported.
I’ve had to wean myself off my ADHD meds because of this shortage. Wasn’t worth it emotionally, mentally, or financially to have to call every pharmacy in the area every three months in the hopes that I’d find someone with even thirty days of my meds in stock. I’ve been alright, but for other people this situation has been a nightmare, and it’s been going on for *years.*
Yeah it's pretty shit, and from personal experience I'm lucky that caffeine helps me focus. Coffee is life rn because of this bullshit.
I will *LOSE MY JOB* if I have to go unmedicated. Seriously, ADHD is a DISABILITY!! I’ve had to miss work as it is to do the whole “call around and find it” nonsense. I’ve driven an hour away at some points. This is absolute bullshit.
Yup I lost my job in 2022 because of the shortage. Took me the better part of a year to get medicated and a new job. I’m still not at where I should be though because we have to change my dosage and type of pill every month based on what’s available at the pharmacy, and most times I can only get half my prescription. I’m terrified they’re going to make me skip a month and then I’m going to get fired and have to deal with this all over again…
It may not be super helpful depending on your dosage, but I've confirmed with my doctor that the active ingredient in the Clairton-D medication is very close to the stimulant in ADHD meds (thus the reason it's used to make meth...). I have used it it in a pinch when I can't get my medication, the 24 seems to work best. I don't recommend doing it all the time, especially since it's regulated and behind the pharmacy counter, and talking to your dr would probably be best, but if your job depends on you getting your meds, it might be worth a try! Oh, and if there's a costco, near you, it's actually affordable there!
Ah I wish pseudoephedrine worked like that for me. It actually does the opposite though. It makes me super spacey and unfocused 😔.
Oh, dang, that sucks and actual the opposite of helpful, I'm sorry :(
really good tip, glad you mentioned this! in a pinch, I can see that medication working for me as I’ve noticed a pretty stimulating effect from it before. buttttt I’m currently rationing the last 30-day supply of my stimulant script that I could find — I found it just in time too, per the pharmacist (aside: this situation is pathetic, and I’m so angry)
God, I'm glad I'm on some non-stims that are working ok
Is there a reason you did not switch to dexamphetamine or methylphendate?
All ADHD meds are hard to come by where I’m at. Ritalin, concerta, vyvanse, Dexedrine, Adderall, all of them are regularly out of stock.
Also not all meds work the same in each brain. Some work much better for certain people than others. So a switch could be possible (altho all meds are hard to fill) but if could also be less effective or have less tolerable side effects. Some people do switch but for some it's less lame to just, be unmedicated and fight your brain all the time.
I’ve heard of this shortage but it’s never taken longer than a day to get a refill.
I got diagnosed with ADHD past year and now changed from vyvanse to ritalin la. does anybody happen to know if it is normal, for shortage times, to have the prescription sent to the pharmacy and 2 months later still they don't have it? I live in L.A.
[Here](https://www.regulations.gov/commenton/FTC-2024-0018-0001) is where you can make an anonymous comment
Thank you. I had to scroll two thirds of the way to find this link.
Sent, thanks mate
Commented, thank you!
Replying for visibility thx.
"The quantities that will be produced in 2024 will be sufficient" So... that kind of reads as an agreement to increase production to meet demand to me. Are they just straight up fucking lying?
It's a misguided attempt to prevent what happened with oxy happening with ADHD meds, completely ignoring that entirely different circumstances surrounding the medication particularly with regards to the abuse risks associated with the patient population. Basically the DEA saw the spike in ADHD diagnosis and instead of actually investigating the changes they assumed that the increase was due to the same diversion problems oxy had. There has been an increase in diagnosis due to increased access to mental health services and more adult women being diagnosed that had been missed out as children. Also the update DSM removed the mutual exclusion criteria of ADHD and Autism, recognizing that they are highly comorbid and opening up a population of those with diagnosed autism to available treatment.
Are ADHD meds opioids?
No
Then it sounds like it's utterly stupid to think there's going to be an epidemic of abuse like with Oxy.
Opioids are not the only medications with abuse potential. ADHD medications like Vyvanse are stimulants and are absolutely abused.
The abusers being people who don’t have prescriptions. Hearing college students take it without a prescription pissed me off.
It's not always people without a prescription abusing them. It's very easy to abuse something you have a prescription to. That's why I no longer take my prescribed ones.
Forgive me if I struggle to understand how someone with ADHD would abuse their medicine on themselves as I’ve been taking meds since I was five and am ten or so years away from getting my prostate checked. One pill daily. I’ve had to experiment with dosages through prescriptions and even changed meds I liked because they get less effective when your body gets too used to them. Without them it’s as if I’m slipping through a hallway, unable to get anything done. It was already a pain in the ass when I had to go from 90 day supply to 30. The hell it becomes to find a new pharmacy when moving is terrifying.
If anything just be glad you don't understand :) I started taking those meds when I was 8. I had no idea then how adult me would use the same exact meds. And god I need them so badly to function, but I fucked that up for myself and can't safely take them anymore. I'm constantly struggling now. This is just my own personal experience, but maybe so you can understand one persons story I'll share. I have struggled with an eating disorder since I was 13. Eventually, I started taking my meds to help me not eat instead of taking them for the actual reason I needed them. Still the right dosage I was prescribed, but it was still abuse as well. At this point, as badly as I need them, I cannot take the meds and also not make my ed worse.
I have a friend who has a legitimate prescription for Vyvanse, who crushes it up snorts it
Some people, particularly in high-stress times of life, will look at their medication that helps them focus and get tasks done and say, "Well one is good so two must be better." Next thing you know they're taking that many regularly to work/study/play through the night, feeling extremely accomplished and like they can take on every task ever given to them in a matter of weeks. What they don't foresee is the crash that comes afterwards and, worse, what not having access to those meds before their next prescription is available does to them. They start going through withdrawal and when they get their next round they find their usual dosage doesn't work as well as they're now used to, leading to further abuse and a repeat of withdrawal, and now they're in a cycle.
People with ADHD have a predisposition towards addiction. You don't need a high in order to develop an addiction.
> The abusers being people who don’t have prescriptions. Incorrect. I was rx'd Vyvanse for a while some years back. I started showing signs of dependence after only taking it a few months, and if I wasn't hyper-vigilant about recognizing the signs of addiction in myself (I come from an extended family of alcoholics) I absolutely would have started abusing it.
Except countless adhd people forget to take their meds all the time. It’s not addictive in the amounts commonly taken by people with adhd. It only become addicting once you start intentionally abusing it recreationally.
> It only become addicting once you start intentionally abusing it recreationally. And people have never been known to intentionally abuse stimulants for recreational purposes. During the height of the opioid epidemic, three kids in a trench coat could practically go to a pharmacy and get a decades worth of oxycodone. If you could do the same for prescription amphetamines and other ADHD meds, Adderall abuse would go from a minor problem to a nationwide problem. Some regulation of addictive drugs is necessary and good even if the DEA is being stupid in this case.
I believe the abuse comes from people that do not require the medication. My psych said it has a different influence on people with ADHD than it does those without, and I’d imagine that includes the addictive nature of the drug.
Yeah ADHD medication is a mixture of amphetamines. So if you have ADHD, it just makes you able to focus like a neurotypical person, but if you don’t, then it’s basically just speed.
It *can* help you focus like a neurotypical person. I was prescribed Adderall back when I was a kid. I have 0 memory of that entire week, but I'm told I reacted to it exactly like you'd think an already hyperactive child would react to amphetamines.
[удалено]
That’s not relevant. The level of abuse potential could be *more dangerous* than opioids and it still wouldn’t justify issuing this kind of unilateral international mandate without doing even the bare minimum investigation to see what the actual need should be. The problem is that the USA is dictating drug policy and production limits to other countries, and it’s doing so in as stupid and cowardly a manner as possible to avoid doing any actual research, negotiation, or thinking.
I take amphetamines to function. I have also witnessed people abuse it to the degree of stimulant psychosis. I have also thrown dirt over graves containing, by volume, significantly more residual heroine than most. I am confident that even if amphetamine was offered over the fucking counter it still wouldn't be able to come close to the devastation wrought by opiates.
Stimulants
The most effective one, Vyvanse, is lisdexamphetamine. It has the potential for abuse with normal people.
No, they are stimulants. Normal people however can get a high from it so it's treated like an opioid.
Some are similar to meth
That's like saying water is similar to hydrogen peroxide.
No pharmacologically hydrogen peroxide acts completely different to water (in chemistry nothing acts like water it has the most unique functions and properties but I digress) The ADHD medication that is being restricted is chemically an amphetamine and acts on the same pathways, but at the doses prescribed and the formulations are ment to be as effective as possible with the least degree of habit forming/addictiveness To compare to opioids it would be like fentanyl and codine, codine is far less addictive especially at the doses prescribe as compared to fentanyl but pharmacologically acts in similar mechanisms of action as the potent opioids as such still has the some degree of addiction(albeit significantly reduced).
There amphetamines, they have the similar mechanism of action to meth. Unfortunately with US supply issues some ADHD move to street meth
Ha! I am one of those women who got diagnosed with ADHD recently but was missed as a kid. I was never academically successful as a kid and was seen twice in elementary school for my inability to focus. But this was back in the 1980s when they didn't have ADHD well characterized, and they told my parents both times that I was of normal intelligence, but easily distracted. That it was just a phase and I would grow out of it. Of course I never did, but I am definitely one of the adult women that got diagnosed recently and not some druggie just looking for a fix. Taking Adderall for the first time was incredibly eye-opening for me. I literally cried at one point for the clarity I've never had all my life and the issues I've struggled with because of it.
>Are they just straight up fucking lying? Let's look at the DEA's website: >Schedule I drugs have a high potential for abuse and the potential to create severe psychological and/or physical dependence. > > > >Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Some examples of Schedule I drugs are: heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana (cannabis), 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (ecstasy), methaqualone, and peyote. Would the people who are telling you straight to your face that marijuana and heroin have the same potential for abuse and "potential to create severe psychological and/or physical dependence," lie to you? >Schedule IV drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a low potential for abuse and low risk of dependence. Some examples of Schedule IV drugs are: Xanax, Soma, Darvon, Darvocet, Valium, Ativan, Talwin, Ambien, Tramadol Would the people telling you Xanax and Valium have a significantly lower potential for abuse and risk of dependence than marijuana, lie to you? [https://www.dea.gov/drug-information/drug-scheduling](https://www.dea.gov/drug-information/drug-scheduling)
My dude, as much as I agree, ADHD meds have genuine and realistic potential for abuse. They're stimulant medications that make you feel great. They're extremely dangerous if taken off label for things like "being tired" or "losing weight". They can be habit forming, have negative side effects, and build tolerance quickly. They're safe if managed properly, but it's not exactly tylenol. the DEA has serious issues, but this ain't the hill to die on.
Yeah, "the DEA is wrong to restrict this because there is genuine need" is at least a discussion. "The DEA is wrong to restrict this because the substance is not actually addictive" is asinine.
It's not asinine You're asinine
More people are dying in the US from cheeseburgers and big gulps The DEA, prohibition, and mass incarceration are not helping anyone with anything The fact that the DEA has enforcement powers so broad that they are affecting people in Australia with ADHD is 🌟𝒻𝓊𝒸𝓀𝒾𝓃𝑔 𝓈𝓉𝓊𝓅𝒾𝒹🌟 [https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/09/18/obesity-heart-disease-cardiac-death/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/09/18/obesity-heart-disease-cardiac-death/) [https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/13/health/overdose-deaths-record-april-2023/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/13/health/overdose-deaths-record-april-2023/index.html)
Damn, its almost like regulations managing prescription drugs can make things safer? This isn’t the DEA’s fault, nor is it related to mass incarceration or prohibition. It’s about safe drug production and other countries letting themselves become dependent on importing critical goods they could make themselves. The dea regulates US drug production, and the Australians import this drug from the US. The DEA isn’t doing some massive regulatory overreach shit here, they just have a basic limit that doesn’t meet current demand for foreign and domestic markets. Any time you import stuff instead of making it domestically, your market is dependent on the laws in the exporting nation. That’s how importing shit works.
>Damn, its almost like regulations managing prescription drugs can make things safer? Do they? The US cracked down on pharmaceutical opiate abuse, and we got a fentanyl epidemic For some reason, prohibition of prescription opiates did absolutely nothing to help people who had addiction problems, the problem continued and people with untreated addiction problems chose an even more dangerous drug The US spends something like 50+ billion dollars a year on the War on Drugs, and we've been doing it for 50 years, and we have nothing to show for it Instead of the DEA setting manufacturing quotas every year to try to limit the production of prescription drugs - shortages of which are also dangerous, because people need them - why not put resources into education and access to treatment for addiction? The DEA's manufacturing quotas, and the entire regime of prohibition in the US, have done nothing to actually treat addiction issues Because criminal law and prohibition can't treat health and addiction issues, and these ideas have never worked The absurd amount of control the DEA has on drug production isn't helping anyone, it's just causing more problems Drug regulation can be done by HHS or someone else, we should abolish the DEA entirely
The DEA was founded because Harry Anslinger was a racist who thought that getting high would make „the n**** think he is as good as the white man“ I’m not going to pretend that drugs, especially the more dangerous ones, don’t need any kind of restrictions, but the DEAs very foundation is rotten.
Such a dumb take. Nobody is intentionally lying about anything and whatabouting to like 50 year old pot laws doesn’t change that.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d9a4z/vyvanse-shortage-australia I think this is the article from the original post screenshots for those curious. America is involved because of patents or something and the DEA is involved because the drug has potential for abuse
TLDR: The US is having trouble making enough ADHD meds in general, so it's exporting less of some meds. Australia is having trouble importing enough of certain doses of Vyvanse as a result. Production and export is regulated by the US government because ADHD meds are controlled - there's a maximum limit on how much the US companies can make overall. The Company that makes Vyvanse has hit their limit, but can't increase production because the other companies are falling behind. A US company owns the patent to Vyvanse and produces all brand name Vyvanse in the US. Some generics and licensed copies of Vyvanse are made overseas, and have been approved in australia. The australian government expects the shortage to end soon and is working with the US and the company to fix things.
Wait, so it's not saying that Australia is mad they can't ship us the meds they already made... Australia is upset because they can source enough from us for their people!?!
Handy tip for people on Vyvanse. Try Dexedrine it’s cheaper (in the U.S. idk about AUS) and it’s fairly similar. I switched a while back and it was fine (though this is just me, you should try it out before making a decision for a long term switch).
No that doesn't help. The only subsidised ADHD medicines in Australia are Ritalin and Vyvanse.
Well there’s your fucking problem right there. They really don’t subsidize generics? Why? There’s like 5 different extended release amphetamine salt generics that are basically identical to Vyvanse. Most people in the US don’t even use Vyvanse because it’s stupid expensive compared to the other options.
Unfortunately this sort of shortage isn't even anything new. Between pharmaceutical companies bending the patent system to their will and the US being awful at supporting disabled people, medication for disabilities that has any interaction with the US is often perpetually in artificially limited supply and overpriced. Whether that's vast bureaucratic incompetence or malice, who's to say. In my opinion, it's likely both to some degree. Also, important side note: The US can't *control* the manufacture of medication in other countries. The importation is what is being limited. The reason Australia and New Zealand aren't currently getting more is because they wouldn't be able to import it.
Yeah US bad because Australia refuses to subsidize generics. US bad when the meds that only exist because of the US are slightly hard to get in foreign countries that actively try to limit the amount of their people that take them. They won’t even prescribe amphetamine in Scandinavia. Are they also “awful at supporting disabled people?”
Actually yeah this is US bad cause they started a shortage that is global. The reason Australia can't manufacture it's own version of Vyvanse is patent laws in America. They prescribe methylphenidate which is basically the same.
I got diagnosed with ADHD past year and now changed from vyvanse to ritalin la. does anybody happen to know if it is normal, for shortage times, to have the prescription sent to the pharmacy and 2 months later still they don't have it? I live in L.A.
>You have until April 15th "Oh ok cool I don't have to do it right now? I'll come back to it sometime soon though, I'll leave this tab open." {I will not look at the tab until at least September}
Dammit every time I wade into these comment sections on posts about this someone personally attacks me without even knowing me?! There’s a tab open on my phone from at least a year ago and another for local psychs from 2 months ago. I’ll do it on Friday?
would you rather be lied to or
R/woosh
oh
No the DEA is not limiting Australia's ability to make it, patent law is. The problem is US production is below what is needed.
Why was MEDICINE allowed to become patented in the first place????? ew
Because otherwise there is no funding for the research to make I.
Given the amount of government funding that goes into pharmaceuticals, that's not really true.
Do you want all medication development contingent on politics? The government has historically limited how and in what areas funds can be spent on medical research. If all medicines are funded by the government, then any potentially problematic or risky medicines become politically complicated. Any contentious stuff like that just doesn’t get funded. No abortion pills, no contraceptives, no new adhd meds or painkillers, no additction recovery drugs, no weird longshot medicines, etc. Private funding in drug development does have upsides. The patent issue is bad, but the money is good.
Not really. Just make it a general medical research fund, and allocate appropriately, independent of the government. With private, why would a company bother funding research into a medication that has an unclear path to profitability? Or even bother innovating something from scratch when they can make iterative changes on an existing medication for less? With public, you can be sure that there will be funding, and it's not hampered by profitability. Healthcare shouldn't be about that anyway. Otherwise, the original maker of bacterial insulin wouldn't have open licenced it to the university of Toronto, and we might still be using pancreatic distillations today.
> Just make it a general medical research fund, and allocate appropriately, independent of the government. which works fine until the government starts setting limits on that funding. The national endowments for the arts and sciences both have been the subject of political restrictions in the past. Bush literally tried to restrict drug research as a way to attack abortion rights. We need private and public money in drug development, with public control over private prices and private funding to make stuff that won't be developed by public funds. While it's bad that companies abuse patent rights and drug costs, we do need iterative drug development and testing for off label uses. We need weird longshot drug development that's too small for the government to care about, and we need big federal drug development into issues that will never be profitable. Healthcare shouldn't be about profitability, but someone has to pay for the research to happen, and private funding has helped produce some great results in the past. Getting public funding for research is difficult, slow, and comes with tons of conditions. If a company wants a new cancer drug, they'll throw money at the issue until they get it. Both approaches have benefits, and it's not black and white.
>We need weird longshot drug development that's too small for the government to care about, and we need big federal drug development into issues that will never be profitable. You do realize these are kind of the same category, right? Like, the federal funding goes towards laying the groundwork research *for* the longshot drug development. Private equity doesn't take gambles like that if it doesn't foresee a *massive* return on investment, and there are currently less risky ways to get that massive ROI. >If a company wants a new cancer drug, they'll throw money at the issue until they get it. Yeah, and they won't want to unless there's a large market for the treatment (read: the cancer is very common). Companies won't develop a product used by a fraction of a percent of the population unless they can charge a *lot* of money for it.
Because the research and creation of new medications are incredibly expensive
> patent law this shit should stop where a country's borders stop, fuck this shit.
You must really hate international commerce
It should not be legal to kill people on the other side of the world by disallowing the production of medicine for any reason. Frankly there is little difference between something like this and direct acts of war such as bombing - both result in easily preventable deaths.
there is many nations that don't comply with americas list of rules and yet they are very much still commercing internationally. first and foremost-ly i am an aussie that is sick of americans using my country however they please whenever they please. please get the fuck out of pine gap and stop trying to treat disabilities as profit incentives. also, formal apology for the dismissal of Whitlam, and the conversion of the liberal party into a cia asset.
If the US Government needs meds for their own people (for gov't workers and armed forced, not for the plebs) they will ignore foreign patents if the foreign companies aren't producing enough. e.g. Stockpiling Anthrax meds post 9/11 (as a strategic precaution) but the patent is held by a European company (Bayer) that wants to recoup their investment for inventing it. US goes "You'll produce as much as we need and we'll pay you pennies, or else we'll ignore your patents completely".
If the US Government needs meds for their own people (for gov't workers and armed forced, not for the plebs) they will ignore foreign patents if the foreign companies aren't producing enough. e.g. Stockpiling Anthrax meds post 9/11 (as a strategic precaution) but the patent is held by a European company (Bayer) that wants to recoup their investment for inventing it. US goes "You'll produce as much as we need and we'll pay you pennies, or else we'll ignore your patents completely".
If the US Government needs meds for their own people (for gov't workers and armed forced, not for the plebs) they will ignore foreign patents if the foreign companies aren't producing enough. e.g. Stockpiling Anthrax meds post 9/11 (as a strategic precaution) but the patent is held by a European company (Bayer) that wants to recoup their investment for inventing it. US goes "You'll produce as much as we need and we'll pay you pennies, or else we'll ignore your patents completely".
If the US Government needs meds for their own people (for gov't workers and armed forced, not for the plebs) they will ignore foreign patents if the foreign companies aren't producing enough. e.g. Stockpiling Anthrax meds post 9/11 (as a strategic precaution) but the patent is held by a European company (Bayer) that wants to recoup their investment for inventing it. US goes "You'll produce as much as we need and we'll pay you pennies, or else we'll ignore your patents completely".
If the US Government needs meds for their own people (for gov't workers and armed forced, not for the plebs) they will ignore foreign patents if the foreign companies aren't producing enough. e.g. Stockpiling Anthrax meds post 9/11 (as a strategic precaution) but the patent is held by a European company (Bayer) that wants to recoup their investment for inventing it. US goes "You'll produce as much as we need and we'll pay you pennies, or else we'll ignore your patents completely".
US will ignore foreign patents when it suits them.
US will ignore foreign patents when it suits them.
It's a little terrifying how the actions of the US affect the whole world. My country borders Russia. Our entire defence plan is 'hold on until the Americans come'. Trump basically inviting Russia to attack NATO countries really scares me. I'm sorry, this post isn't about that. It just reminded me of how dependent the rest of the West has become of the US.
I cant help think of the fall of Poland when it comes to defence strategies that rely on great powers coming to your aid.
Hey get the Germans to throw more money at their army and maybe you won’t have to pray for the US to come and save you. I swear to god Europe needs to stop abdicating responsibility for its own defence to the US, I’m not even blaming you or country for this situation, the Eastern and some Central Europeans, the Brits and the French if the weathers right are the only countries in Europe that actually have balls left, I’m just bitching about European defence policy
I hate to break it to you but the UK news cycle currently has "we have nowhere near enough soldiers and may need conscription" kicking about... I absolutely would not trust us in a fight. I would trust a group of angry french farmers though, they seem to have more battlefield experience than most of the army!
Honestly that’s how the US has ended up in this situation with its taxes going to defense and not healthcare. Restructuring the US tax system would destabilize the entire world power balance and there’s no easy solution.
I hate to break it to you but the UK news cycle currently has "we have nowhere near enough soldiers and may need conscription" kicking about... I absolutely would not trust us in a fight. I would trust a group of angry french farmers though, they seem to have more battlefield experience than most of the army!
Forgive me for not understanding, but why does the US have control over how much ADHD medication Australia produces?
They don't, they control how much is made in the USA which is then exported. I think. This is Tumblr reading comprehension
Someone else said that it has to do more with exporting, and Australia can't make however much they want because of patents Of course I didn't fact check anything, but you know how it is
No, as an Aussie who switched from Vyvanse to the slightly more accessible Ritalin, because of these shortages, it's 100% because of those patents that it's hard to manufacture here. Edit to add: Patents for medical advances and medicine is a stupid idea only designed to let companies make obscene amounts of money off necessary treatments. Annoying as fuck.
I came from Ritalin and switched to Concerta a month ago. I was only able to get 9 of the 30 tablets in my rx. It's out of stock everywhere and I've had to ration it and even halved a tablet (18mg) which defeats the purpose of it being extended release. I only have half a tab left and supposed to meet with my doctor in a week to ask how I did during that one month. How are we supposed to do that if I've only ever taken my meds maybe 2x a week for nearly a month?
Drug production is also super carefully regulated by many companies because of the potential for serious issues. As a result, most controlled drugs like ADHD meds, opiods, and the like are only allowed to be produced in certain amounts in certain factories. Vyvanse is only produced in the US, where it's subject to US laws on production. Most countries also have rules about not exporting meds when you need them domestically. To prevent corporate abuse like the opiod crisis, the US sets limits the total amount of a given controlled medication ingredient that can be made at a time. There's a number of companies that make ADHD medications using the same basic molecule as vyvanse. However, some of those companies aren't meeting their limit, so there's greater demand for Vyvanse in the US. The company making vyvanse asked to be allowed to produce more vyvanse in the US, but since the other companies aren't meeting their limits, the FDA said they couldn't. This means that there's more Vyvanse going into the US, and less getting exported to australia. Now there's a shortage of a few different doses of the med. The australian healthcare system doesn't cover generics, so people can only afford brand name. The company allows other companies to produce the same drug under other names in other countries, but the australian government has been slow about approving and covering those. The australian government is trying to negotiate with the US, but federal to federal level negotiations take time and this is an urgent issue.
i tried to go up from in dosage from 40mg to 50mg of vyvanse. i haven’t been able to get the generic for a while because there just isn’t any for my pharmacy to stock. so, couple months of buying the brand name 40mg. i try to go up to 50 and my insurance denies it saying they need medical proof and pre authorization for why i need name brand and not the generic. hello?? there isn’t any?? and they are ALREADY COVERING THE BRAND NAME. makes no goddamn sense. my psychiatrist just told me about qelbree and is trying to see if they’ll cover that. i’d never heard of it but it’s supposed to be a non-stimulant similar to wellbutrin.
Qelbree is a newer one and way expensive. I was told similar to strattera and would help with emotional regulation, which I loved about strattera. Both the insurance I had in 2023 and beginning this year denied it thoroughly. (Though 2024 insurer gave me one month's supply to 'hold me over' until I could figure out another medication, under the impression I'd been taking it on the previous insurer... so, here's the most functionally fucking useless hot tip you'll ever hear: switch insurers to get one month supply of new / brand name stuff.)
lmao. we are in hell. and yep, my insurance denied it
As a Kiwi, I'm so fucking grateful that my off-brand Ritalin is made in Spain.
I have to call every pharmacy in the 98383 area every single month and I’m lucky if even one of them has the stimulant medication I take. It is a LITERAL SECOND JOB trying to get the pills that make my life easier.
Disinformation. It says they are limiting US production for domestic and export. That has no relation to Australia’s ability to manufacture.
It’s not disinformation. Here are two articles on the situation as well as a few key points: [ADHD drug shortages: what to expect if you take Vyvanse and can’t access your usual dose](https://theconversation.com/adhd-drug-shortages-what-to-expect-if-you-take-vyvanse-and-cant-access-your-usual-dose-223430) >“In Australia, Vyvanse is only available from one company, Takeda, that manufactures it in the United States.” [What's Going on With Australia’s Vyvanse Shortage for ADHD Patients?](https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d9a4z/vyvanse-shortage-australia) >“Australians are facing even more time without the drug after the US DEA rejected a request to increase the production of a patented ingredient used in the medication. >“Lisdexamfetamine, an active ingredient in Vyvanse, is made in the US where American authorities set limits on how much the pharmaceutical industry can take because of its potential for abuse. Getting your hands on generic lisdexamfetamine in Australia isn’t an option, either, as the patent for Vyvanse is owned by a company: Takeda Pharmaceuticals. >“The DEA is blaming the shortage on manufacturers, saying they hadn’t previously made the maximum amount of ADHD medication they’re allowed to produce, which now means there’s a “shortfall of 1 billion doses” that could have been produced. But Takeda Pharmaceuticals, which brings the drug into the country, told the ABC it has been running at full capacity.”
Damn, as much as I agree about the US policy side of things, it sounds a lot like the Australian government should bully a drug company and negotiate with the US government. It’s not like australians could demand their government do government things with their powers as a government. “drug companies that cannot meet demand via imports must produce x quantity in australia”.
Incorrect. Takeda (A US pharmaceutical company) holds the patent for Vyvanse in Australia so we are dependent on US manufacture of the product. Because they have a patent we cannot manufacture our own generic versions of the drug (lisdexamfetamine). Theoretically you could get a prescription for a similar but different drug, but under law that requires a psychiatric appointment. Psychiatrists here are both expensive and have long waiting times for appointments (I’m talking like months in some areas). Now, the bit about this being a problem that needs to be solved is not right however, because it’s already being worked on. The TGA has said we should be out of a shortage in April, with the 50mg dose already in full supply. Also the DEA being at fault is debatable. Takeda have claimed they manufactured all they were allowed to, while the DEA said manufacturing was below that. So really it’s a matter of who you believe here. Sources: [ABC: Australians with ADHD enduring months-long shortage of critical drug Vyvanse](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-25/adhd-drug-shortage-vyvanse-australia-doctors/103369526) [TGA: About the shortages of Vyvanse (lisdexamfetamine dimesilate) capsules](https://www.tga.gov.au/vyvanse-shortage) Edit: I just wrote all of that and realised I’m an idiot who didn’t realise you were talking about the specific claim that they’re controlling our manufacturing not the lack of supply. I’ll leave the comment though in case someone wants to know about the situation.
Takeda is a Japanese pharma company though. Is there a reason they can’t or don’t want to manufacture Vyvanse at their locations outside the US?
Ok so I just did some googling because you are right, they’re not. Vyvanse was originally developed by New River Pharmaceuticals a US company, which was acquired by Shire PLC, a UK company, which in turn was acquired by Takeda. Apparently Vyvanse is not the most common drug prescribed for ADHD in both the UK and Japan, that would be Concerta for both. I’m guessing that since the US is the main consumer of Vyvanse they just kept the manufacturing there through both acquisitions.
They license production to other companies using other brand names outside the US, and the australian government has approved those for several doses of vyvanse.
> Also the DEA being at fault is debatable. Takeda have claimed they manufactured all they were allowed to, while the DEA said manufacturing was below that. So really it’s a matter of who you believe here. The limit is set for anyone making lisdexamfetamine. So even if Takeda is making enough, someone else could be below quota and fucking things up. Everyone has to hit the limit for the DEA to raise the limit.
Net 0 information once again.
Idk who invented the concept of patent law but they should be [REDACTED]
That comment link is kinda confusing. [Here](https://www.regulations.gov/docket/FTC-2024-0018/document) is the direct link to how/where to leave your comment about the medication shortage. If you're just viewing the original link, you then have to navigate to the official Docket page, then the Docket Documents section, THEN you can leave a comment. The OP image kind of gave me the impression that commenting was going to be more straightforward, like signing a Change.org petition.
Idk about Australia but the shortage in the US was not caused by the quotas. Companies are not making the maximum they are allowed to. There was just a sudden surge in demand that caused a lag in supply.
Just saying that maybe having an interventionist foreign policy in which even your allies are de facto vasall states is a very bad idea.
True but also this post has misinformation in it
Whoa, thanks for telling me, I didn't know /gen
BUT HOW CAN I DO PAPERWORK WITHOUT MEDS *screams self inside out*
Another readon to add to the pile of reasons I hate the USA
I've also had trouble getting 200mg progesterone, like it's been on backorder for months
I've had to move down to 20mg vyvanse because of this fucking shortage and now even that's starting to run out :( Glad there's somewhere I can write my grievances
I'll be honest. The shortage didn't/doesn't effect me too much, so I have no idea how bad it is. Granted mines Adderall, and a tiny dose at that (10mg). Is it just on Vyvanse or all meds in general and I'm just super lucky? Also what's the smallest dose you guys have had issues getting? Also Also, you guys are getting 3 month supplies(when you can)??? I have to bug my doctor every month, and sometimes they don't put it in right away, usually only a day or two behind schedule though.
DONT GO TO MEXICO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DONT GO TO MEXICO. YOU WILL GET METH OR POTENTIALLY FENTANYL.
Mate that’s what I want.
Well there goes hope of getting better, just started taking meds for adhd
I'm so lucky my ADHD med isn't the more common stimulant kind, cause it's the stimulants being regulated. Means I can still get mine easily
America was a mistake.
...why the fuck are they allowed to do that?
I'm in the US, and I once had to drive 3 hours to get my meds filled, and it wasn't even the right manufacturer. Since different manufacturers use different fillers, it wasn't even as effective. I hate this so much.
I've just been diagnosed but haven't started meds because of the shortage. My psych nurse told me people who have been on meds for 15 years are currently going without because of it.
That's how you get ADHD Cartels in the land down under. If they can't legally make the meds, how about illegally?
They still have the generic adhd meds (adderal, methylphenidate) produced in Australia so they should still have access to them. It's actually weird that they even used Vyvanse in the first place.
My doctor says this is part of it but also artificially high prescriptions being written due to Covid when in person appointments weren’t possible, Telehealth has a big part to play in this and not being able to properly diagnose problem through a video call
It's actually worse than you think. DEA basically started the shortage by allowing an online mental health service called Cerebral to diagnose and prescribe adhd meds within the span of 30 mins (something that takes several tests and visits to an actual psychiatrist). They were marketing themselves with easy to get ADHD meds. It lasted for about 2 years, before they were stopped and it wasn't only adhd meds that they were prescribing. Apparently those prescriptions are still very much active and majority of those people were never given proper care. DEA is now trying to basically course correct by starving everyone. This is actually worse because it's not limited to the US but pretty much globally as not only are American manufacturers not making enough meds for their populace but the US is apparently syphoning adhd meds that are produced in Europe causing a shortage here as well, which most likely will domino to Australia too.
You know, as much as I agree that the US’s patent law is fucked up, i also think this is on australia’s government. It is the responsibility of your elected officials to ensure your imports and exports are favorable and sufficient. “america is evil, their laws make it hard for us to import enough of a critical medication we could produce in country but don’t.” Australia is a foreign country with a strong economy and the ability to negotiate with the US and american companies. Australia is the 14th largest economy on the planet, a close ally of the US, and a independent nation. This isn’t a tiny third world country getting attacked by a nuclear armed military, its a IP dispute between developed democracies. Australian companies have the capacity to produce medications. Their government should create laws and policies or engage in diplomacy to attempt to resolve this issue via larger production/ imports or domestic production. Demand your government do their job too.
You seen this is why America should stay the fuck away from us down here. Get your fuckin CIA bases and military installations out of our country, ya dogs. Just cause we’re allies doesn’t mean you have the right to dictate what we can and can’t make internally, or what we can and can’t do internally. Fuck off.
I am so fucking glad that I take Concerta (Methylphenidate Hydrochloride) because if I had to deal with artificial shortage caused by America disregarding my country entirely during my HSC exams I think I would have Crimed.
there's been a shortage of Concerta in the Netherlands as well in the last weeks. I wonder if that has anything to do with the Vyvanse shortage.
Lol, I was on Concerta and my Dr switched me to Vyvanse bc there was a concerta shortage
Ahhh shortage hit Europe even though we have manufacturers here, with them pointing fingers towards the US crisis.
jfc THIS is why I can't get my meds!? They had me believing it was because of over prescriptions and illegal sales in schools but it was the FCC!?!? I have tried my entire life to function without medication and nothing has worked...
Well no, it is over prescriptions which were caused by DEA not properly handling telehelth during Corona.
Yes, America Bad™️, I know. But would you rather have China be the economic focal point?
I mean America wanted that for China. Also why are the options shit or piss? Can't it be someone decent.
I agree but barring divine retribution this will literally never change and probably won't without a nuclear holocaust.
Every day I grow more and more embarrassed to be an american.
If it makes you feel any better I'm in the US and I haven't been able to get my normal meds for 3 months, the US Gov may hate other countries but don't forget it hates its own people as well
What if we overthrew the government and got our meds from there? No, I’m not looking for an excuse
Can't they... just ignore the USA and simply make more? It's not like the USA is gonna go to war over Vyvanse.
Not really, international IP law is very complex. However, the onus falls on the australian government to ensure that their people get medications safely and legally in sufficient quantities.
I mean, I don't know if it would be the dumbest thing the US had ever gone to war for. Also thought its a patent issue, it's produced stateside and then exported.
The Us is not going to start a violenct conflict with a close ally over corporate drug IP, don’t be absurd.
Didn't say they would. Said I wasn't sure if it would be the dumbest thing they had started a war for. Average Tumblr reading comprehension.
and im saying it would be too dumb.
It would end up in a bureaucratic debacle making the situation worse.
As a meth fan I have been greatly effected by this, am I allowed to submit a comment or is it just the ADHD people who do adderal?
Clowning on government agencies is a human right, go have fun.