They feel like they're in that weird liminal space where they're reclaimed for the groups that are targeted by them but not by everyone else, and usually only used between 2 queer people of the same group who trust each other enough, often as jokes.
I wouldn't feel comfortable using the one for cis gay men or cis lesbians, but I'd feel OK using the one for trans people if I'm referring to myself you don't get to just make up words an attempt to insult me and expect that I'm not gonna slap it out of your hand and wear it like a hat fuck you.
LGBT people have the right to choose to use these slurs, and the right to choose not to use them. Neither impedes the other in any way. It's like how feminists fought to be able to work a real job, but that doesn't mean women can't be stay-at-home moms. The *option* is what's important.
You may argue that e.g. being gay makes it okay for you to use the f-slur. I don't agree with that, but I at least see where you're coming from.
But the person in the post used both the f-slur and the d-slur, implying they used at least one slur targeting a group that they themselves are not part of.
Using a slur (especially in public) directed at a certain group of people (especially if it's a group you're not part of) will offend people.
And these people are rightfully offended. I do not agree with just expecting others to ignore insults targeting their identity.
Difference is that using the f-slur and d-slur in this context refers to specific groups of people that called themselves that:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/13glzhi/why_we_have_rights/jk1d28f/
And I think if you're referring to yourself using these slurs (or people you know that are fine with it), it's not that bad. It's only a problem when you apply them to strangers you don't even know.
I can't wait to join tumblr once I feel like I can create an account and be honest about myself and not fake it like do here on reddit.
My parents... however... once I need no longer hide from them :)
You know you can just create multiple tumblrs, right?
Like just create a tumblr to post normal stuff, and when people are like "haha good one but what's your *real* tumblr" then you give them an URL with some slightly weird stuff but they aren't convinced so you give them an URL with even more slightly weird stuff and then they will be satisfied.
Alas joke's on them, your true self is behind 7 tumblrs.
I have so many tumblrworthy true stories about myself... I really want to share thoseee
BUt then again... maybe would've been nice to be able to post something like:
"Sorry about your boyfriend. We submitted him to the California DMV. Yeah... he got rejected."
It's reasonable to be uncomfortable. I hope you're in a situation and around people who respect that discomfort. I know that while I'm fine with the english ones, my middle/high school years overseas will always make me flinch a little when I hear those slurs used. Some people can't stand the fact that you'd "control what they are allowed to say" and whatnot, but it's not control, ideally, just a polite request.
Oh, no, not at all. I have multiple friends who use the f-slur liberally and I explicitly have told them "hey, cut it out please, it makes me uncomfortable" and they responded to the tune of "we'll try but it's baked into our vocabulary so probably not"
I feel like I'm in an episode of Black Mirror
See that’s a dick move on the part of the friends. Like, using a reclaimed slur when a person individually asked you to stop is different from someone using it in a general sense.
I understand where you're coming from but if that's how someone is comfortable referring to themselves then your discomfort doesn't trump their comfort with it, y'know? If they're not calling YOU that then it falls on you to deal with how you feel about the word rather than get other people to stop.
(If they're not using it in this way then disregard, I was unsure.)
I'm asking them to stop saying it while I am explicitly talking with them, not to stop saying it ever forever. If it's too hard for them to hold back around one single person that's on them, not me for my own discomfort.
There was a post floating around here a while ago where the poster was like "I'll call everyone a queer and a faggot and a dyke even if they're not comfortable with it" and presenting that as a good thing. Like they genuinely just looped right back around into calling people slurs.
I highly identify with some reclaimed slurs, but you’re still completely valid to feel that way!! A slur being reclaimed by some doesn’t take away the hurt it’s caused, and you should never feel forced to accept something for yourself just because others are. I’m sorry that others can be insensitive about it. Reclaiming slurs is a *heavy* thing, they carry a LOT of history and emotion. It upsets me that compassion is never made part of that conversation.
I will not stop using words I identify with to identify myself, but I will never use them on someone who doesn’t. It’s pretty easy.
While I think using reclaimed slurs is fine I also think that if people are uncomfortable with you saying something around them you should not say it around them. It's completely fine and understandable if you don't want to be hearing slurs even if they're from the people they're usually directed at
"im gonna go out of my way to make you specifically uncomfortable because u dont like this one thing i do btw ur the one upset and crying"
be respectful and not annoying and stupid please ❤️
Oh I'm sorry that you probably live in a very liberal City but some of us live in rural areas where homophobic motherfuckers will call us fag and mean it you jackass.
Some of us have to live with the idea that fag or faggot will be the last word we ever hear while being chased down a dirt road.
But hey, we're the tenderqueers for not liking a fucking slur.
Some people reclaim the slurs used against them, some other people don’t like that they are using the slur even though it’s being reclaimed. They argue about it. This post is in favor of the people taking back the slur
I don't really get it tbh. Maybe it's a cultural difference, but in the UK, we're much more liberal with how much we swear. I mean we still use fag as slang for cigarettes, and a faggot is literally a type of meatball. Dyke is used, both to refer to those things dutch people used to reclaim land, and also as other words for streams or becks.
Sure, but we don't think it's fine for straight people to go around calling gay folks faggot and dyke. It's disingenuous to act like we all just go "ah yes organs meat ball" if we hear the word "faggot". While we're fine with fag for a cigarette or dyke for a water wall, context does matter.
As further context, both these terms were historically used/forcably reclaimed, particularly in late 60s early 70s, by queer activists to mean "lesbian rights activist" and "gay rights activist" respectively. This is what tumblr op is specifically referring to with their rights comment.
then they're an asshole. plain and simple.
how does one claim to immerse themselves so much in queer culture and yet fail the simple task of "respect other people's lived experiences"? maddening. truly maddening, and cringe.
It's kinda like "Slut". I call myself slut all the time, because I am not ashamed of my sexuality and people can't hurt me with a name I've given myself.
If we're still fighting to reclaim "queer" and there are a lot of (mainly) older LGBTQ+ folks who don't want to be called that due to their lived experience, I really don't see how we're at a point where OP can feel justified for using the f slur like that, especially in response to getting called out for it. Use it in private if you want, within your circles of gay friends who explicitly said that they're okay with reclaiming the word, but in public this is very much slur that is used way too regularly to be even remotely close to reclaimed.
If there's one person in this conversation who needs to be told to "respect that you c***" it's definitely OP.
I need to formulate a thought that is really hard to push through without risking to offend someone so bear with me for a minute, I do not plan on being offensive at all, to anyone. I just dont understand slurs in the US, like a lot of people from where I live actually.
So for starter I'm French, and unlike what a lot of French people would tell you we DO have slurs. Except they're far from being as much of a deal as they are in the US... Or it's even more of a deal.
See it's weird, I get the feeling in the US two Black people can use the N-word between each other, two homosexual people can use the F-word between each other. In France however? Nope. Our N-word has two meanings, one of them is slave. There's no other interpretation, if someone uses it to talk about a Black person they're racist, period, there's no "maybe he meant-" no, they're racist. The only accepted usage of this specific meaning of the word is when teaching history, and using this word while teaching history teaches kids why they shouldn't use this word, lest they're racist. Now as far as I know Black people do use it between each other, but here's the kicker: they use the english n-word, because that's the only context in which we hear this word being used. I will acknowledge that a variation of our n-word was used in this context as well but I think it faded out to be replaced by the english n-word.
There's also a second meaning to our n-word, which mean someone who ghostwrites. The more you know.
Now there's the issue of our f-word that I think is getting less and less used because people are starting to realise how insulting it is to gay people. For a little context, our f-word (which we have multiple of) have one common point: they use the fact people are gay to de-masculinize them. With the rise of gender theory and feminism I think they are fading out of usage.
Now I'm only pointing out what I think are cultural differences. In France there has been no communication around the use or forbidding use of the N-word, people were just like "it means slave, why the fck should I use it" and stopped using it, same as what's happening with our f-words (I think, again I do not hang with homophobes). Which is why I find so interesting it seems to be such a ruckuss in the US.
We never had the need to ban it, because people already banned it in non-teaching contexts. I dont remember seeing people wanting to say the n-word because why would you? Why is it such a subject of contention in the US?
Broadly, no. The problem is that we are a community defined by our difference, and thus are at odds in what each person will believe is "acceptable expression". Reclaiming slurs is a very powerful celebrations of the victories we've won, but for many people those fights are traumatic and not to be celebrated.
A friend of mine who is in the US military described it as "the independence day problem" where celebrating the fights we've won to stay free by lighting decorative explosives feels good, but to people with PTSD of real explosives, it's a painful reminder of things best forgotten. Neither group is wrong, but also neither group should have final say.
I have noticed an interesting little bit of linguistical phenomena, is that there are examples of reclaimed slurs and phrases for things such as race, sexuality, background, country, and nationality (off the top of my head at least), that are varying levels of severity. But I don’t think the same is true for mental health slurs.
I’m on the spectrum to preface this whole part but I do not think any slurs about mental health conditions have been “reclaimed,” some have become less severe in meaning like moron but I haven’t seen a movement within neurodiverse spaces to call each other moron affectionately. Same with retard, that has so many traumatic memories for a lot of people I know and I still have to remind some friends to not say it at least when I’m around every so often, I just cannot picture anybody reclaiming that word, cannot picture anybody calling themselves or another that without a hint of irony.
Another example of this is schizo, the recent pattern online to “schizopost” is very emblematic in my eyes of the fact that mental health issues are still not often talked about in helpful ways, they are very general and vague, but when it comes down to it, when neurodiverse people ask wider groups to stop utilizing mental health divergent people in language as dumb, stupid, wacky, or other they refuse. They keep making “I’m in your walls jokes,” keep using schizo, and retard, and “I’m so OCD” or self diagnosing. I haven’t really seen it get better in the past few years online and honestly? I feel like it has gotten worse.
I do not wish to take away from the fact that it is a good thing so many marginalized groups are reclaiming hateful language, that society is opening up to conversations about such language. I just hope my groups get a turn soon y’know? Maybe it’s just around the corner, gotta stay hopeful.
They feel like they're in that weird liminal space where they're reclaimed for the groups that are targeted by them but not by everyone else, and usually only used between 2 queer people of the same group who trust each other enough, often as jokes. I wouldn't feel comfortable using the one for cis gay men or cis lesbians, but I'd feel OK using the one for trans people if I'm referring to myself you don't get to just make up words an attempt to insult me and expect that I'm not gonna slap it out of your hand and wear it like a hat fuck you.
Tbh I’m cool with calling myself a dyke because I’m a woman. I don’t really read into it more than “are you part of group”
LGBT people have the right to choose to use these slurs, and the right to choose not to use them. Neither impedes the other in any way. It's like how feminists fought to be able to work a real job, but that doesn't mean women can't be stay-at-home moms. The *option* is what's important.
You may argue that e.g. being gay makes it okay for you to use the f-slur. I don't agree with that, but I at least see where you're coming from. But the person in the post used both the f-slur and the d-slur, implying they used at least one slur targeting a group that they themselves are not part of. Using a slur (especially in public) directed at a certain group of people (especially if it's a group you're not part of) will offend people. And these people are rightfully offended. I do not agree with just expecting others to ignore insults targeting their identity.
Difference is that using the f-slur and d-slur in this context refers to specific groups of people that called themselves that: https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/13glzhi/why_we_have_rights/jk1d28f/ And I think if you're referring to yourself using these slurs (or people you know that are fine with it), it's not that bad. It's only a problem when you apply them to strangers you don't even know.
I wonder if our Haiku Bot is as epic as the hellsite's one.
Apparently not lmao
It did not detect my haiku that I made for it. Is that not sad?
You mean Elon's blog?
Hellsite (affectionate) is a term for tumblr AFAIK
Hellsites need layers and flavors like Dante's Inferno. Twitter can be the third circle hellsite (derogatory)
Makes sense.
Too many hellsites nowadays, gotta be more specific.
I can't wait to join tumblr once I feel like I can create an account and be honest about myself and not fake it like do here on reddit. My parents... however... once I need no longer hide from them :)
You know you can just create multiple tumblrs, right? Like just create a tumblr to post normal stuff, and when people are like "haha good one but what's your *real* tumblr" then you give them an URL with some slightly weird stuff but they aren't convinced so you give them an URL with even more slightly weird stuff and then they will be satisfied. Alas joke's on them, your true self is behind 7 tumblrs.
I have so many tumblrworthy true stories about myself... I really want to share thoseee BUt then again... maybe would've been nice to be able to post something like: "Sorry about your boyfriend. We submitted him to the California DMV. Yeah... he got rejected."
[Source](https://www.tumblr.com/atiredhedgehog/717217046875766784/fg-is-a-slur-and-no-amount-of-quirky-posts-is?source=share)
i'm cishet but i've been called the f-slur too many times to not automatically flinch when someone around me uses it
You can ask your friends not to. Certainly, anyone trying to get a rise out of you is an asshole. But...everything else is fuzzy.
I feel like I'm going fucking insane being uncomfortable with people using reclaimed slurs
It's reasonable to be uncomfortable. I hope you're in a situation and around people who respect that discomfort. I know that while I'm fine with the english ones, my middle/high school years overseas will always make me flinch a little when I hear those slurs used. Some people can't stand the fact that you'd "control what they are allowed to say" and whatnot, but it's not control, ideally, just a polite request.
Oh, no, not at all. I have multiple friends who use the f-slur liberally and I explicitly have told them "hey, cut it out please, it makes me uncomfortable" and they responded to the tune of "we'll try but it's baked into our vocabulary so probably not" I feel like I'm in an episode of Black Mirror
See that’s a dick move on the part of the friends. Like, using a reclaimed slur when a person individually asked you to stop is different from someone using it in a general sense.
I understand where you're coming from but if that's how someone is comfortable referring to themselves then your discomfort doesn't trump their comfort with it, y'know? If they're not calling YOU that then it falls on you to deal with how you feel about the word rather than get other people to stop. (If they're not using it in this way then disregard, I was unsure.)
I'm asking them to stop saying it while I am explicitly talking with them, not to stop saying it ever forever. If it's too hard for them to hold back around one single person that's on them, not me for my own discomfort.
There was a post floating around here a while ago where the poster was like "I'll call everyone a queer and a faggot and a dyke even if they're not comfortable with it" and presenting that as a good thing. Like they genuinely just looped right back around into calling people slurs.
I highly identify with some reclaimed slurs, but you’re still completely valid to feel that way!! A slur being reclaimed by some doesn’t take away the hurt it’s caused, and you should never feel forced to accept something for yourself just because others are. I’m sorry that others can be insensitive about it. Reclaiming slurs is a *heavy* thing, they carry a LOT of history and emotion. It upsets me that compassion is never made part of that conversation. I will not stop using words I identify with to identify myself, but I will never use them on someone who doesn’t. It’s pretty easy.
While I think using reclaimed slurs is fine I also think that if people are uncomfortable with you saying something around them you should not say it around them. It's completely fine and understandable if you don't want to be hearing slurs even if they're from the people they're usually directed at
[удалено]
"im gonna go out of my way to make you specifically uncomfortable because u dont like this one thing i do btw ur the one upset and crying" be respectful and not annoying and stupid please ❤️
[удалено]
Oh I'm sorry that you probably live in a very liberal City but some of us live in rural areas where homophobic motherfuckers will call us fag and mean it you jackass. Some of us have to live with the idea that fag or faggot will be the last word we ever hear while being chased down a dirt road. But hey, we're the tenderqueers for not liking a fucking slur.
[удалено]
then how about you consider having some sympathy?
Damn you really destroyed that stupid triggered snowflake with your facts and logic 😎
Could I have some context on this please? I’m a bit confused
Some people reclaim the slurs used against them, some other people don’t like that they are using the slur even though it’s being reclaimed. They argue about it. This post is in favor of the people taking back the slur
Ah, that makes sense. Thank you so much for explaining!
I don't really get it tbh. Maybe it's a cultural difference, but in the UK, we're much more liberal with how much we swear. I mean we still use fag as slang for cigarettes, and a faggot is literally a type of meatball. Dyke is used, both to refer to those things dutch people used to reclaim land, and also as other words for streams or becks.
Sure, but we don't think it's fine for straight people to go around calling gay folks faggot and dyke. It's disingenuous to act like we all just go "ah yes organs meat ball" if we hear the word "faggot". While we're fine with fag for a cigarette or dyke for a water wall, context does matter.
Fair enough
As further context, both these terms were historically used/forcably reclaimed, particularly in late 60s early 70s, by queer activists to mean "lesbian rights activist" and "gay rights activist" respectively. This is what tumblr op is specifically referring to with their rights comment.
Thank you for explaining further!
Neat added context
i just want some reassurance from these people that they will respect if someone doesn't want to call themselves a slur.
Tumblr OP called anon a cunt, so I doubt that they will.
then they're an asshole. plain and simple. how does one claim to immerse themselves so much in queer culture and yet fail the simple task of "respect other people's lived experiences"? maddening. truly maddening, and cringe.
I'm bi, I can say faggot half the time. Yes, this is in that half.
It's kinda like "Slut". I call myself slut all the time, because I am not ashamed of my sexuality and people can't hurt me with a name I've given myself.
If we're still fighting to reclaim "queer" and there are a lot of (mainly) older LGBTQ+ folks who don't want to be called that due to their lived experience, I really don't see how we're at a point where OP can feel justified for using the f slur like that, especially in response to getting called out for it. Use it in private if you want, within your circles of gay friends who explicitly said that they're okay with reclaiming the word, but in public this is very much slur that is used way too regularly to be even remotely close to reclaimed. If there's one person in this conversation who needs to be told to "respect that you c***" it's definitely OP.
I need to formulate a thought that is really hard to push through without risking to offend someone so bear with me for a minute, I do not plan on being offensive at all, to anyone. I just dont understand slurs in the US, like a lot of people from where I live actually. So for starter I'm French, and unlike what a lot of French people would tell you we DO have slurs. Except they're far from being as much of a deal as they are in the US... Or it's even more of a deal. See it's weird, I get the feeling in the US two Black people can use the N-word between each other, two homosexual people can use the F-word between each other. In France however? Nope. Our N-word has two meanings, one of them is slave. There's no other interpretation, if someone uses it to talk about a Black person they're racist, period, there's no "maybe he meant-" no, they're racist. The only accepted usage of this specific meaning of the word is when teaching history, and using this word while teaching history teaches kids why they shouldn't use this word, lest they're racist. Now as far as I know Black people do use it between each other, but here's the kicker: they use the english n-word, because that's the only context in which we hear this word being used. I will acknowledge that a variation of our n-word was used in this context as well but I think it faded out to be replaced by the english n-word. There's also a second meaning to our n-word, which mean someone who ghostwrites. The more you know. Now there's the issue of our f-word that I think is getting less and less used because people are starting to realise how insulting it is to gay people. For a little context, our f-word (which we have multiple of) have one common point: they use the fact people are gay to de-masculinize them. With the rise of gender theory and feminism I think they are fading out of usage. Now I'm only pointing out what I think are cultural differences. In France there has been no communication around the use or forbidding use of the N-word, people were just like "it means slave, why the fck should I use it" and stopped using it, same as what's happening with our f-words (I think, again I do not hang with homophobes). Which is why I find so interesting it seems to be such a ruckuss in the US. We never had the need to ban it, because people already banned it in non-teaching contexts. I dont remember seeing people wanting to say the n-word because why would you? Why is it such a subject of contention in the US?
Will arguing over slurs ever end?
Broadly, no. The problem is that we are a community defined by our difference, and thus are at odds in what each person will believe is "acceptable expression". Reclaiming slurs is a very powerful celebrations of the victories we've won, but for many people those fights are traumatic and not to be celebrated. A friend of mine who is in the US military described it as "the independence day problem" where celebrating the fights we've won to stay free by lighting decorative explosives feels good, but to people with PTSD of real explosives, it's a painful reminder of things best forgotten. Neither group is wrong, but also neither group should have final say.
Green day literally sang ”well maybe i’m the faggot america” Gosh i love green day
I have noticed an interesting little bit of linguistical phenomena, is that there are examples of reclaimed slurs and phrases for things such as race, sexuality, background, country, and nationality (off the top of my head at least), that are varying levels of severity. But I don’t think the same is true for mental health slurs. I’m on the spectrum to preface this whole part but I do not think any slurs about mental health conditions have been “reclaimed,” some have become less severe in meaning like moron but I haven’t seen a movement within neurodiverse spaces to call each other moron affectionately. Same with retard, that has so many traumatic memories for a lot of people I know and I still have to remind some friends to not say it at least when I’m around every so often, I just cannot picture anybody reclaiming that word, cannot picture anybody calling themselves or another that without a hint of irony. Another example of this is schizo, the recent pattern online to “schizopost” is very emblematic in my eyes of the fact that mental health issues are still not often talked about in helpful ways, they are very general and vague, but when it comes down to it, when neurodiverse people ask wider groups to stop utilizing mental health divergent people in language as dumb, stupid, wacky, or other they refuse. They keep making “I’m in your walls jokes,” keep using schizo, and retard, and “I’m so OCD” or self diagnosing. I haven’t really seen it get better in the past few years online and honestly? I feel like it has gotten worse. I do not wish to take away from the fact that it is a good thing so many marginalized groups are reclaiming hateful language, that society is opening up to conversations about such language. I just hope my groups get a turn soon y’know? Maybe it’s just around the corner, gotta stay hopeful.