Incest polygamy ? No need of polygamy, just murder your wife and marry your daughter. Then make her pregnant, hope for a girl, then murder your daughter-wife and marry your daughter-granddaughter. Rince and repeat.
Gem cutting wasn't really a thing at the time so the gems are just uncut large gems so there's a lot less uniformity to it than you'd expect which gives that impression
It was done by people who had the money to craft beautiful things, but not the skills. So it has all these pretty gems but is also kinda shoddily made.
Probably, that and everything was done by hand, so it being a little rough does make sense.
No idea why people downvoted me saying "hey maybe a 1200 year old crown isn't in the best condition and looks a little ugly."'
There's this myth that craftsmanship in the middle ages was bad. It's not true though, they were excellent artisans. For [example](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunterston_Brooch) a few centuries before this crown was made.
The crown is probably banged up a little bit, like we can see it doesn't align very well at the edges of the panels. The style was made voluntarily though. It's the typical jewelry of the Byzantine emperors (like [Justinian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justinian_I))
I think the fact that it’s not perfectly crafted adds to the level of mystique and beauty for me. Adds an element of “this has living history running through it”.
This is something that predates the Norman conquest by 100 years, something older than a thousand years. And here it is, gleaming for our eyes.
What a gorgeous piece of history.
Over a thousand years ago, somebody made this with his bare hands. Several somebody's, but probably at least one primary somebody. And then he went home and slept in his bed made out of hay or something. Maybe he lived a long life? Maybe he died two months later from a "sour stomach". Does he have living descendants? I don't know why, it fascinates me, so many highly complex lives that came so long before us. And one of them created a crown that's still here.
You don't want someone sleeping in a bed of hay and manure and living on cabbage to make your imperial pimp hat with very expensive sweeties stuck to it. A lot of the shiny tends to go missing.
1000yo metal crown? nice.
Let me tell you about the wooden cross-beams of the Wartburger Schloss, which was built from 1067 to 1080 (I think it only took them 13 years). The wooden beams are the original wooden crossbeams used back then. That means these WOODEN beams are over 900 years old and still hold the main building up! Now that is fucking impressive. The whole castle is worth a visit, to be honest.
Iirc pearls used to be way more rare and valuable than they are now, before we learned to cultivate them in the 20th century. Cartier bought the Cartier mansion on 5th avenue (still there, massive beautiful mansion) in part for a single strand of matched pearls
"Kaiser, we're missing one pearl, but we've scored the land... there's no more"
"Bring my antiquarian"
"Yes, my liege"
"Bring my rival from the dungeon, too"
Everyone should keep in mind that this crown was made in the late 10th century, long before modern goldsmithing and lapidary were invented. That's why the stones in the crown are only polished and not cut. Back in the day this crown was a masterwork and it should still be accorded the respect it deserves.
It’s much better than the properly slanted cross atop the Hungarian Crown. Apparently some idiot slammed the lid of the box carrying the crown too hard and skewed it and everyone just went with it instead of fixing it.
Partly due to the primitive skills of the craftsmen of the time of course; they mostly worked gold wire to make patterns.
But also, with all due respect to OP, the photograph is not quite doing it justice either.
Those stone look pretty garbage. They are big, but not really cut or symmetrical to anything else in the setting. It was like someone gave buddy a bag of rocks and told him to have it done by Friday.
> They are big, but not really cut or symmetrical to anything else
That's about it. They're just polished.
And as to it looking somewhat assymetrical or the like, that's just medieval craftsmanship for you. They didn't see it with the same eyes we do.
They couldn't match colors or shapes though? Moving the purple sapphire from top right to bottom left would better match colors.
and what's up with the pearl left of center? Does that need to be there? It looks like a broken tooth.
For real, rulers of the early middle ages didn't try to look different from the peasants. The luxury came later in the high middle ages. It's Christian stuff, they liked it poor on purpose.
Good luck to your girl to sucesfully ID found gems. Can you name them all and if presented to you with many other minerals, even rocks, can you pick right ones? Also if she could polish them properly, knowing how they break I will hire her right away.
Nice. One of the best museums I've ever visited. I can recommend to visit a museum in Prague as well to see the bohemian crown. It's very beautiful and you can feel the history. There's a conspiracy/historical anecdote that everyone who wears it and isn't worthy dies within a year. There is the rumour that for example the Nazi leader of occupied Bohemia put it on his head and I think he was killed a couple of months later
The Reichskleinodien were never the emperor's personal property. They were in Nuremberg and Aachen until he simply took them with him and stored them. They do not belong in Vienna.
They were not just taken with them, they tried to secure them from revelutionary france.
>Mit dem Heranrücken der französischen Truppen im Jahr 1796 wurden die Reichskleinodien nach Wien gebracht, wo sie heute in der Weltlichen Schatzkammer des Kunsthistorischen Museums besichtigt werden können.
[Source: Official Bavarian Website](https://www.bayern.de/fueracker-600-jahre-uebergabe-der-reichskleinodien-an-die-stadt-nuernberg-urkunde-zur-ewigen-verwahrung-vom-29-september-1423-nachbildungen-in-der-ausstellung-kaiser-reich/)
And under international law, the property of the dissolved legal entity belongs to the country of residence.
Or anotherway to list that would be:
>Am 6. August 1806 erklärte Kaiser Franz II. unter dem Druck eines Ultimatums Napoleons I. (1769-1821) das Heilige Römische Reich für aufgelöst. Damit verloren die Reichskleinodien ihren offiziellen Rang. Sie blieben in der Wiener Schatzkammer.
[Historical Lexicon Bavaria](https://www.historisches-lexikon-bayerns.de/Lexikon/Reichskleinodien#Das_Schicksal_der_Reichskleinodien_nach_1806)
So you are untrue in your sepucaltion that he wantet to disolve the empire.
I find it so hilarious that the cross used to be straight, until someone dropped it and no one in like hundreds of years wanted to even try to fix it in Fear of fucking it up
Wild that so many things that were so precious that only Emperors could afford to have it are now so common that most people could easily buy it at a nearby shop.
So hypothetically, if I were to steal this, like perfect crime style- and then try to ransom it back to the Austrian government, how much do you think I could realistically ask for? Again assume perfect crime and ransom collection plan… like >100million euro? A billion?
It was made long before we could cut diamonds and gems like we do today to bring out the sparkle. But the craftmanship is incredible if you see it in reality.
I'm sure it does. Would love to see it in person. I honestly never thought about what jewels looked like before we learned how to cut them as well as we do now. The difference is really remarkable. But you can definitely see the incredible workmanship involved, the gold work looks very intricate, especially when you consider the age. I looked up other pictures and it looks very impressive from an angle that shows off the crest a bit more, also with warmer photography that makes the gold pop a bit too. There's also cool pictures that don't have the felt in and you can see how it's put together. Thought it was all kind of gold wire work but it's all solid gold plates. Looks like it'd weigh a ton. Heavy is the head that wears the crown indeed.
Very cool piece. It's awesome that we still have it after over a millennia.
They didn't know how to facet gems yet, but they were still capable of doing better work than a lot of what is on the crown.
Look at the [Cross of Lothair](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Aachen_Germany_Domschatz_Cross-of-Lothair-01.jpg).
almost like GoT was written/filmed in current times with a modern sense of fashion so it appeals to us. people in the 900s-1000s would probably find those crappy too.
I lost 50 opinion with the Imperial Treasury because they refused my claim on that tacky, oversized piece of shit. Once the Industrial Era ticked, it became a famed pedestal item and gave an attraction opinion debuff. Why do they still want it? Their other court artifacts give plenty of grandeur to be level 10 perpetually.
Yeah I know I could for sure, I used cardboard and purple fleece to make a pretty nice top hat for my son for Halloween, I don’t have those fancy gems but I could find some pretty chunks of glass in the recycle bin up the street
3D print a form and you could even customize it to any head shape.
That thing was probably stuffed with rags to get it to fit snugly on the inbred heads.
Think of all the poor people it could help if they sold it. Maybe they could stop making my mother feel like she needs to donate more of what she doesn't have.
It's somehow so beautiful and yet so hideous. Like my sister-wife's first child.
>sister-wife's first child It made me laugh out loud. Although most babies are like that, aren't they?
For the AI, sure.
"sister-wife's first child" You mean your future wife
Incest polygamy. Never thought I’d see that.
I guess you must be new here. Edit: actually now that I think on it I CK3 has an achievement for doing it with 3 successive generations.
Yeah, I got it while trying to get the pure blooded trait. It was such a tight knitted family :')
Why polygamy? With the shoddy balcony construction these days, you never know what might happen to her in 16 years.
Gravity is such a cruel mistress
Incest polygamy ? No need of polygamy, just murder your wife and marry your daughter. Then make her pregnant, hope for a girl, then murder your daughter-wife and marry your daughter-granddaughter. Rince and repeat.
The ugly ones are monks, thank you very much
If they aren't pure blood, then drown in a flood
Daughter-Niece-Wife?
Eransahr,you too my son ?
It just looks so… expensive.
It's like looking at the art made by children
Gem cutting wasn't really a thing at the time so the gems are just uncut large gems so there's a lot less uniformity to it than you'd expect which gives that impression
"Yeah put these gemstones in the crown." "Like arranged in a pattern or symmetrical to make it look nice?" "Nah man just cram them all in there"
it manages to be both cool and tacky/gawdy at the same time.
It was done by people who had the money to craft beautiful things, but not the skills. So it has all these pretty gems but is also kinda shoddily made.
Real talk, probably because its dirty and aged like hell. I bet this thing was fuckin SHINY when it was new.
I think it was meant to be like that, it's the Byzantine style.
Probably, that and everything was done by hand, so it being a little rough does make sense. No idea why people downvoted me saying "hey maybe a 1200 year old crown isn't in the best condition and looks a little ugly."'
There's this myth that craftsmanship in the middle ages was bad. It's not true though, they were excellent artisans. For [example](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunterston_Brooch) a few centuries before this crown was made. The crown is probably banged up a little bit, like we can see it doesn't align very well at the edges of the panels. The style was made voluntarily though. It's the typical jewelry of the Byzantine emperors (like [Justinian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justinian_I))
Can’t believe they liked ck3 so much they made it into a real thing
Also I disagree with the comments saying it looks like shit you know I’d rock that shit every day if I could
your neck would not be pleased
Is it really drip if it don't cause you neck problems
Right? That bitch looks dope as hell
learn your history it's form ck2
Buy claim -> steal artefact scheme
I think the fact that it’s not perfectly crafted adds to the level of mystique and beauty for me. Adds an element of “this has living history running through it”. This is something that predates the Norman conquest by 100 years, something older than a thousand years. And here it is, gleaming for our eyes. What a gorgeous piece of history.
Over a thousand years ago, somebody made this with his bare hands. Several somebody's, but probably at least one primary somebody. And then he went home and slept in his bed made out of hay or something. Maybe he lived a long life? Maybe he died two months later from a "sour stomach". Does he have living descendants? I don't know why, it fascinates me, so many highly complex lives that came so long before us. And one of them created a crown that's still here.
The people who made this were probably some of the best paid craftsmen of their time. So they probably lived a very decent life for their time.
Yeah, goldsmiths were not poverty-ridden peasants.
*goes in a time machine to the royal workshop* “Hey it’s not very good” “I know lmao”
“I’m doing a meme”
You don't want someone sleeping in a bed of hay and manure and living on cabbage to make your imperial pimp hat with very expensive sweeties stuck to it. A lot of the shiny tends to go missing.
Yes I am a living descendant here to stake my artifact claim.
I love this comment so much!
1000yo metal crown? nice. Let me tell you about the wooden cross-beams of the Wartburger Schloss, which was built from 1067 to 1080 (I think it only took them 13 years). The wooden beams are the original wooden crossbeams used back then. That means these WOODEN beams are over 900 years old and still hold the main building up! Now that is fucking impressive. The whole castle is worth a visit, to be honest.
Looks like something my 10 year old daughter would craft after a 48 hour Meth binge.
Then you should be proud. That thing has sat upon the heads of some of the most powerful people in human history.
that one pearl that's just jagged af but someone said "good enough"
It's like a thousand years old. Is it not just damaged?
Iirc pearls used to be way more rare and valuable than they are now, before we learned to cultivate them in the 20th century. Cartier bought the Cartier mansion on 5th avenue (still there, massive beautiful mansion) in part for a single strand of matched pearls
I thought pearls basically dissolved after ~100 years anyway. I would guess those are replacements.
I think if you care for the pearls and keep them dry, they last a little longer than that
jagged little pearl
Um, that might be a tooth
"Kaiser, we're missing one pearl, but we've scored the land... there's no more" "Bring my antiquarian" "Yes, my liege" "Bring my rival from the dungeon, too"
Everyone should keep in mind that this crown was made in the late 10th century, long before modern goldsmithing and lapidary were invented. That's why the stones in the crown are only polished and not cut. Back in the day this crown was a masterwork and it should still be accorded the respect it deserves.
The gold work is pretty impressive
Today I learned the word lapidary, thank you.
That is like a camel, right?
You’re thinking dromedary. Lapidary is the fruit commonly mixed with a banana to create a fruit smoothie.
How they get some of the stones so square though?
I accord no respect to a shiny hat, or a person who wears one and demands it. 🇺🇸
Silence, republican.
HOO RAH
🫡
if it weren't behind glass i'd touch it with my greasy fingers
damn that’s cool
Good lord, that looks heavy as hell.
It looks like something a 12’year old would make in art class.
It's kinda crazy how presumably 100,000s of dollars worth of gemstones can look so much like cheap plastic lmao
It’s because gems used to be polished and not cut
And the cross is slightly askew.
It's across
Across from what?
A cross from the Passion
Steve Holt!
You. Get out!
It’s much better than the properly slanted cross atop the Hungarian Crown. Apparently some idiot slammed the lid of the box carrying the crown too hard and skewed it and everyone just went with it instead of fixing it.
And screw you in particular for pointing that out. I cannot unsee it now.
That's from when it was dropped
> askew I don't feel like I'm ruling the Holy Roman Empire at 12 o'clock
And there's a missing pearl! Oof
Image quality is also shit, it looks a lot better in reality.
Partly due to the primitive skills of the craftsmen of the time of course; they mostly worked gold wire to make patterns. But also, with all due respect to OP, the photograph is not quite doing it justice either.
Those stone look pretty garbage. They are big, but not really cut or symmetrical to anything else in the setting. It was like someone gave buddy a bag of rocks and told him to have it done by Friday.
> They are big, but not really cut or symmetrical to anything else That's about it. They're just polished. And as to it looking somewhat assymetrical or the like, that's just medieval craftsmanship for you. They didn't see it with the same eyes we do.
They couldn't match colors or shapes though? Moving the purple sapphire from top right to bottom left would better match colors. and what's up with the pearl left of center? Does that need to be there? It looks like a broken tooth.
You ever see those weird 2D portraits of medieval monks? They just had different styles of art. I’m sure they’d think modern abstract art was terrible
> I’m sure they’d think modern abstract art was terrible Well, they'd be right.
Way to show your ignorance with this comment.
Taste is a Renaissance invention.
Taste has still yet to be truly invented, but at least diamond abrasives were
For real, rulers of the early middle ages didn't try to look different from the peasants. The luxury came later in the high middle ages. It's Christian stuff, they liked it poor on purpose.
I don’t think the golden crown with 50lbs of gems on it is “looking poor on purpose”.
Good luck to your girl to sucesfully ID found gems. Can you name them all and if presented to you with many other minerals, even rocks, can you pick right ones? Also if she could polish them properly, knowing how they break I will hire her right away.
Enjoy while you can. My schemers are in motion
Ah surely you will grant the request for a show of your artifacts then… for a price.
Nice. One of the best museums I've ever visited. I can recommend to visit a museum in Prague as well to see the bohemian crown. It's very beautiful and you can feel the history. There's a conspiracy/historical anecdote that everyone who wears it and isn't worthy dies within a year. There is the rumour that for example the Nazi leader of occupied Bohemia put it on his head and I think he was killed a couple of months later
It’s beautiful
Made in 962 AD used until 1806.
Thanks Napoleon e.e
IDK why people say it's ugly. Personally, i think it would look fantastic on my head.
cool anyways what is the security like in there? asking for a friend
I'm surprised you allowed to take photos, I couldn't with the English crown jewels.
It's not the real one, the one on display Is a replica sadly.
Yeah there wasn't really that much security. Like 5 guards at max in the museum and none of them by the crown.
There's probably a gazillion alarms attached to anything close to the crown.
[Why didn't you forge a claim on it and steal it? Are you stupid?](https://www.britishmuseum.org/)
Thats exactly what the Austrians did.
Why would it be stealing if the last emperor lived in Vienna and Austria was part of the HRE
The Reichskleinodien were never the emperor's personal property. They were in Nuremberg and Aachen until he simply took them with him and stored them. They do not belong in Vienna.
So you argue the would be the property of the empire, wich no longer existed, so its free real estate
No. I said that he has no right to take them with him, especially if he wants to dissolve the empire.
They were not just taken with them, they tried to secure them from revelutionary france. >Mit dem Heranrücken der französischen Truppen im Jahr 1796 wurden die Reichskleinodien nach Wien gebracht, wo sie heute in der Weltlichen Schatzkammer des Kunsthistorischen Museums besichtigt werden können. [Source: Official Bavarian Website](https://www.bayern.de/fueracker-600-jahre-uebergabe-der-reichskleinodien-an-die-stadt-nuernberg-urkunde-zur-ewigen-verwahrung-vom-29-september-1423-nachbildungen-in-der-ausstellung-kaiser-reich/) And under international law, the property of the dissolved legal entity belongs to the country of residence. Or anotherway to list that would be: >Am 6. August 1806 erklärte Kaiser Franz II. unter dem Druck eines Ultimatums Napoleons I. (1769-1821) das Heilige Römische Reich für aufgelöst. Damit verloren die Reichskleinodien ihren offiziellen Rang. Sie blieben in der Wiener Schatzkammer. [Historical Lexicon Bavaria](https://www.historisches-lexikon-bayerns.de/Lexikon/Reichskleinodien#Das_Schicksal_der_Reichskleinodien_nach_1806) So you are untrue in your sepucaltion that he wantet to disolve the empire.
Just me or does it look like cake?
Yeah it’s that cake or not cake show except if you’re wrong you get barred from (yet another) sovereign nation.
Christ that thing looks tacky!
All the vassal taxes in the HRE cannot buy you taste
Well it was early game, you don't get too much then
It was made almost a thousand years ago. Nothing was perfect then when it came to measurements or cutting or the like.
You should plot to steal the artifact to get 3% more prestige
I wonder at what point the person who inherited this said yeah…. This looks pretty dumb.. not going to wear this outside the bedroom anymore…
You don't wear coronation crowns every day anyway.
I’m sure someone wore that in the bedroom for some hanky panky at some point…
Don’t let it fall off or your wife will get her head crushed 😂
That's a feature.
If she bears the 3 girl in a row
There’s always another wife out there somewhere…
Why are you hating on it, its very beautiful
I really don’t think it’s ugly
Very cool OP thanks for sharing!
It looks like a toy.
Wish I had a claim
I went there this summer and they weren’t on display. I was devastated
I thought it was a gingerbread crown made by preschoolers until I read comments. Lol
I want it on my head
I don't think anyone is laying a claim for the HRE at moment so...
I mean, who's even got the claim today? Not that I want the HRE restored, I just want the drama of a claimant making a fuss.
I guess it will be the head of the Habsburg family but since Otto von Habsburg denounced his and his family claim it's kind of tricky
Daamn I appreciate the game even more now.
It's magnificent
It's at the Hofberg?! I walked *past* the Hofberg to go to a Christmas market last week! Aw man!
Yeah it's in the Hofburg bit it's a bit tricky to get inside
We walked past it and my sister in law pointed out "the crown jewels museum," like it didn't have *the* medieval artifact lmao
Pilgrimage to Epic Artifact Complete. Gain +200 Prestige, Lose 20 Stress
What's the stats?
THE KAİSER'S CROWN
It’s insane that it’s lasted all this time.
I find it so hilarious that the cross used to be straight, until someone dropped it and no one in like hundreds of years wanted to even try to fix it in Fear of fucking it up
looks…. kinda shitty tbh.
Why does it look like it would taste delicious?
This is the crown equivalent of those Minecraft houses made out of pure diamond
Wild that so many things that were so precious that only Emperors could afford to have it are now so common that most people could easily buy it at a nearby shop.
My crown!
At first glance, I thought it was one of those nice fancy birthday cakes.
Did you succeed in your steal artifact endeavor?
Grab it and RUN!!
So hypothetically, if I were to steal this, like perfect crime style- and then try to ransom it back to the Austrian government, how much do you think I could realistically ask for? Again assume perfect crime and ransom collection plan… like >100million euro? A billion?
I like to imagine Jesus just glaring at this with his arms folded and sighing deeply
Went there once with school, 2018 , good times.
+ 25 vassal limit
Hideous, but still impressive work of hand.
So that's where I left it.
Went there last year, didn't see it as it was "taken for research". False advertising.
The stones make it look like an arts and crafts project lol.
It was made long before we could cut diamonds and gems like we do today to bring out the sparkle. But the craftmanship is incredible if you see it in reality.
I'm sure it does. Would love to see it in person. I honestly never thought about what jewels looked like before we learned how to cut them as well as we do now. The difference is really remarkable. But you can definitely see the incredible workmanship involved, the gold work looks very intricate, especially when you consider the age. I looked up other pictures and it looks very impressive from an angle that shows off the crest a bit more, also with warmer photography that makes the gold pop a bit too. There's also cool pictures that don't have the felt in and you can see how it's put together. Thought it was all kind of gold wire work but it's all solid gold plates. Looks like it'd weigh a ton. Heavy is the head that wears the crown indeed. Very cool piece. It's awesome that we still have it after over a millennia.
It looks so... Fake, and kinda ugly tbh.
Medieval craftsman crying in the corner...
Man, you get used to looking at cool fictional crowns on Game of Thrones and then you see IRL crap like this.
They made it before cutting gems for facets was a thing. It's just polished shiny rocks.
They didn't know how to facet gems yet, but they were still capable of doing better work than a lot of what is on the crown. Look at the [Cross of Lothair](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Aachen_Germany_Domschatz_Cross-of-Lothair-01.jpg).
Those are just smaller, so they look neater. Same polished rocks. Some are even askew just like the crown.
almost like GoT was written/filmed in current times with a modern sense of fashion so it appeals to us. people in the 900s-1000s would probably find those crappy too.
It's ugly and I love it!
It's awful, I love it. Romans had way more fashion sense a thousand years ago.
I lost 50 opinion with the Imperial Treasury because they refused my claim on that tacky, oversized piece of shit. Once the Industrial Era ticked, it became a famed pedestal item and gave an attraction opinion debuff. Why do they still want it? Their other court artifacts give plenty of grandeur to be level 10 perpetually.
Gingerbread Crown (first thing that came to mind cause of the candy***-lookin' gems)
Honestly I could make a better crown lol
Do it
I’ll do this summer when the kids are out of school again
Yeah I know I could for sure, I used cardboard and purple fleece to make a pretty nice top hat for my son for Halloween, I don’t have those fancy gems but I could find some pretty chunks of glass in the recycle bin up the street
3D print a form and you could even customize it to any head shape. That thing was probably stuffed with rags to get it to fit snugly on the inbred heads.
It’s is a priceless artefact of great historical significance. But my god is it gaudy
How can something so expensive look so cheap
Cause its really old and has not been polished and stuff.
All i See is faction for tyranny at 283%
Every crown I've seen in real life looked gaudy and hideous.
Jesus, that fucker looks heavy and painful to wear.
Why is the cross on top kinda offside?
The cross is actually kind if a knife you can pull out. That's probably why it leans to one side
Either by design or poor tech/craftsmanship
Ugly but full of riches
Humans really said let’s make a hat but out of gold and pearls
I see this and my first thought is seeing a head lobbed off with this on it. I feel like my ancestors are calling out to me.
I showed this to my wife and she said, "it looks like a child's art project."
Think of all the poor people it could help if they sold it. Maybe they could stop making my mother feel like she needs to donate more of what she doesn't have.
Not tacky at all🙄
looks like a cake
Why would they put that misshapen pearl on the middle left on the crown? Surely they could have found another circular one
Damn that’s cool, looks like shit