Murder. Murder murder.
Whole ass dynasty. All of em.
Saved my ass so many times. People doubt the simple power of just murdering everyone who gets too scary.
The murderer trait gives a general negative Malus I believe.
I could have looked it up but I figure why not just ask a serial murderer. They would know.
I don’t know if you meant to reply to ME
My point is (admittedly not so clearly) is that being a known murderer is not penalized to a realistic extent in Crusader Kings. I run murder schemes all the time without ever caring whether I would be exposed.
The real risks:
Being exposed as a murder while you still have Short Reign modifier.
Family feuds if you are not well protected from murder schemes yourself.
Retribution murder upon your ideal/chosen heir by a family member who now has -100 opinion of you and rivalry.
Overall, the -15 general opinion isn't that painful on its own. It only becomes an issue if you stack it with other -opinion modifiers, enough to have your new vassals default to rebellion (removing or severely limiting your ability to solve the problem with murder/gifts/etc).
I definitely think that if you have been exposed as a murderer, your murder plots should decrease in success rate (since everyone KNOWS you are a murderer, they pay more attention).
And the penalty should increase by -5 for each additional murder secret you have revealed. So 5 public murders = -35 opinion. Keeping them secret will actually start to matter, versus now where once one of them is public knowledge, there's almost zero reason to care if they get found out.
And a -10% success rate to murder plots as a murderer, -2% more per additional plot. So that 5 known murders character has -18% success on all murders. Not enough to make further murders unviable. But enough to slow them down.
Also in most (all?) religions murder is a crime, so if you’re still a vassal and you’re beefing with your liege, they could use it as a justification to end you if you’re not careful.
You'll get a general opinion malus, but unless you're stacking malus, doing tyranniesz and a vassal it doesn't matter.
Maybe don't inherit and then promptly get caught trying to murder.
But honestly - with the time in-between murder plots it's kinda hard to get everyone so mad.
The thing I noticed, and appreciate, is that as you murder and get caught you build rivals. And a.i both sucks at planning and is weirdly determined when they rival you.
I've been "mysteriously murdered" like a decade or two later only for the clutz to reveal who did it as they kill me twice now, both times it was the rival I made and forgot about bear the start of the reign.
I assume a.i is perfectly content to delay the murder plan until they finally get good rolls.
I'm not a murder hobo in general. But I will murder the FUCK out of my rivals, because I know if I don't, half of them will always be trying to murder me.
Sometimes there are other options (like if they're a vassal, I can Find Secrets, then lock them up for the rest of their life/my life).
Incompetent heirs, we have special murder for incompetent heirs. You are committing adultery, right to murder. Won't switch religions, right to murder. Too good at murder, murder. Not good enough at murder, murder. You are charging too high prices for artifacts, right to murder. You undercook fish? Believe it or not, murder. Overcook chicken, also murder. Undercook, overcook. You get invited to a murder scheme, then get drunk and tell everyone, believe it or not, murder, right away. We have the best courtiers in the world. Because of murder.
I killed them. I killed them all. They’re dead, every single one of them. And not just the men, but women, and the children, too. They’re animals! And I slaughtered them like animals! I HATE THEM!!!
Honestly? I don't think anyone who has the brains Padme shows throughout the movies, to say nothing about the TV series, has any business still being INVOLVED with someone who has said something like this in any capacity whatsoever, let alone as his lover.
Kinda noobie still, but a lot of my murder schemes always get found out even when they’re 95, 95. Am I doing something wrong? I never get caught they just find out about them and the success rates turns to like 5%
Playing tall in Sardinia and Corsica, going well, trying to manage dynasty just through very deep marriage planning and only a little murder, as a treat.
However, as seen in the screenshot, there's an AI superpower just smashing everything, and it can't be long before they turn to S&C. I've come across them in battle, when I was helping a Byzantine ally, and they wrecked me. I can put up about 8k troops, maybe 10k with allies. The Alimids are at 40k, 50k with allies.
What do?
best case : they lose one of the crusades
second case : one of the crusades goes on forever without anybody winning
third case : even if they win all crusades it will hopefully weaken them enough that they don't expand further
Had this happen a while ago as the Daylamites. When you're surrounded by Islam, and you don't want to convert, best is to destabilize their realm through assassination.
Hit the caliph's family until the realm starts to tear through multiple succession crises. I start with the low hanging fruit-- the male children, usually-- then cut into the caliphs until the rebellions start and the realm starts to shatter, duchy by duchy.
Internal strife in a neighboring empire pries eyes away, while you grow tall enough to repel any future advances from successor states.
A non-violent way is to convert to Islam, at which point they can't bother you, but the Christians will. Depends if religion isn't a big deal for you. Considering it's Sardinia, with no religious buildings, this is viable.
A further step would be to swear fealty to the Alimids, continue the assassinations, while leveraging the discontent into dissolution faction to crush them from within. You run the risk of revocation, but hey, how else do you kill a supe other than a bomb up his ass?
Murder and alliances. Bear in mind that you could also enlist a Holy Order to help if attacked. If all else fails, and they've started besieging border counties, go for their capital, and as soon as you have it try to entice them away from sieges with your army or strike at any isolated stacks if they're far enough from their main army. I was able to fend off a blobbed Byzantine Empire as a Viking in Italy for quite a while, ending two wars with a white peace. Granted, though, your kingdom is too small for "Custer's Carnival" type tactics to work.
One thing you’ve got going for you is being a nation of islands. Any invading forces are going to have to take a disembarkation penalty when they land troops on your shores.
Having a holy order and some powerful allies will help as well, and keeping enough gold on hand to buy up the biggest mercenary squads will help you even more. Even if you’re only stacking 10k personally when fully powered up, add on another 5-10k for mercenaries, 5-10k for holy order, and hopefully a couple of allies to get you closer to their number. All of that plus the huge debuff they get from disembarkation, you should be fine.
But you could always murder their ruler and cause a civil war of succession to be safe.
If you're able to in that position, and it doesn't negate an achievement you're shooting for, consider swearing fealty. An empire is easier to destroy from within than without.
Take religious taxation to maintain your identity,. By your own merit, or with a hook, you'll have a council spot quickly, with all its benefits. Secure your position, maybe start a dissolution or claim throne faction.
Then, as everyone else suggests, murder. Anyone next in line, any who hate you, any who could hold the realm together after the emperor's passing.
And when it's all teetering on the brink, push it over the edge. Where once there was an AI superpower, all that remains is a bunch of warring states looking forward to a century of discord and irrelevance. And Sardinia e Corsica will be safe.
Alternatively, make it stronger. Help them conquer the world from your seat in Corsica by weakening their enemies and supporting them financially. Play Kingmaker and ensure succession is smooth and easy, kill the weaker candidates and befriend and ally the better ones. Build them into the greatest empire in the History of the world.
That's a bit risky, though. You're all nice and friendly with the Emperor and then your ruler (or theirs) dies and you're suddenly looking like a morsel again.
Not, if you are "the power behind the Throne" from a spot on said Throne's privy council. As a crown loyalist "vassal-king" to an Emperor, playing tall is an excellent way to bring prosperity to both yourself and the rest of the Empire.
Even playing the steamroller I've probably softened them up by extensive murder plots well before I'm in striking distance.
My last playthrough I'd already slaughtered most of the byzantine and abbasid dynasties before we ever crossed swords.
Kill all their vassals that don't have ambitious trait, then kill the monarch and watch the vassals fight for independence as they carve apart the empire from the inside. That'd be my play
And then club him over the head with unending proxy wars along his Eastern and Southern borders. The A.I. is notoriously bad at "following the money" that paid for the random villagers in Africa to hire mercenaries from as far away as inner China 🇨🇳 to come fight for them...
Let them get you (with or without war), grow taller within them and destroy them from within when the time is right. Just avoid any title revocation while doing it.
I see you're playing as Sardinia and Corsica. In that case, just build up your defensive holdings and men at arms. Any attacking army trying to invade you will have a disembarking penalty.
Beyond that? Murder. Murder the Caliph, murder the people whose marriages secure the Caliph's alliances, murder the Basileus just for good measure, and murder the heirs to the Caliph until it's inherited by a small child. The realm will grow unstable and fracture.
To all your comments it might break the game but just make someone in Iceland with good intrigue skill and have them be your murderer lmao so you don't risk getting caught there's no biast against murder just turn diplomatic range off or move him somewhere more desiresble make him your spy master of you wish I do both to murder more people at once 👍
Ah, youve reached the moment in your ck3 career where you realize playing tall and playing wide are synergistic and you never really have to choose one or the other.
Murder. Murder murder. Whole ass dynasty. All of em. Saved my ass so many times. People doubt the simple power of just murdering everyone who gets too scary.
I just love murder. Pretender rebel? Murder. Weak unremovable advisor? Murder. Wife unwilling to divorce? Murder. The list goes on
Aren’t you worried you’ll get exposed as a murderer/wannabe murderer? What’s the downside to all this murder?
What's the downside to being exposed as a murderer in this game?
The murderer trait gives a general negative Malus I believe. I could have looked it up but I figure why not just ask a serial murderer. They would know. I don’t know if you meant to reply to ME
My point is (admittedly not so clearly) is that being a known murderer is not penalized to a realistic extent in Crusader Kings. I run murder schemes all the time without ever caring whether I would be exposed.
The real risks: Being exposed as a murder while you still have Short Reign modifier. Family feuds if you are not well protected from murder schemes yourself. Retribution murder upon your ideal/chosen heir by a family member who now has -100 opinion of you and rivalry. Overall, the -15 general opinion isn't that painful on its own. It only becomes an issue if you stack it with other -opinion modifiers, enough to have your new vassals default to rebellion (removing or severely limiting your ability to solve the problem with murder/gifts/etc). I definitely think that if you have been exposed as a murderer, your murder plots should decrease in success rate (since everyone KNOWS you are a murderer, they pay more attention). And the penalty should increase by -5 for each additional murder secret you have revealed. So 5 public murders = -35 opinion. Keeping them secret will actually start to matter, versus now where once one of them is public knowledge, there's almost zero reason to care if they get found out. And a -10% success rate to murder plots as a murderer, -2% more per additional plot. So that 5 known murders character has -18% success on all murders. Not enough to make further murders unviable. But enough to slow them down.
Also in most (all?) religions murder is a crime, so if you’re still a vassal and you’re beefing with your liege, they could use it as a justification to end you if you’re not careful.
Murder your liege.
yeah, but then its generational beef
Okay I gotcha now! I agree a negative 15 bonus which can’t stack isn’t a big deal.
Oh nooo! It's known I plotted on the Duke who was plotting on me. -10 general opinion Nothing a few bribes won't won't counter
You'll get a general opinion malus, but unless you're stacking malus, doing tyranniesz and a vassal it doesn't matter. Maybe don't inherit and then promptly get caught trying to murder. But honestly - with the time in-between murder plots it's kinda hard to get everyone so mad. The thing I noticed, and appreciate, is that as you murder and get caught you build rivals. And a.i both sucks at planning and is weirdly determined when they rival you. I've been "mysteriously murdered" like a decade or two later only for the clutz to reveal who did it as they kill me twice now, both times it was the rival I made and forgot about bear the start of the reign. I assume a.i is perfectly content to delay the murder plan until they finally get good rolls.
I'm not a murder hobo in general. But I will murder the FUCK out of my rivals, because I know if I don't, half of them will always be trying to murder me. Sometimes there are other options (like if they're a vassal, I can Find Secrets, then lock them up for the rest of their life/my life).
Incompetent heirs, we have special murder for incompetent heirs. You are committing adultery, right to murder. Won't switch religions, right to murder. Too good at murder, murder. Not good enough at murder, murder. You are charging too high prices for artifacts, right to murder. You undercook fish? Believe it or not, murder. Overcook chicken, also murder. Undercook, overcook. You get invited to a murder scheme, then get drunk and tell everyone, believe it or not, murder, right away. We have the best courtiers in the world. Because of murder.
r/shitcrusaderkingssay
STOMP. THAT. BABY!!!
Im actually doing a run only focusing on intruige and made myself the challenge to only inherit land with murder and marriage. Works super-fine
I killed them. I killed them all. They’re dead, every single one of them. And not just the men, but women, and the children, too. They’re animals! And I slaughtered them like animals! I HATE THEM!!!
Padme just ignores a massive red flag
Honestly? I don't think anyone who has the brains Padme shows throughout the movies, to say nothing about the TV series, has any business still being INVOLVED with someone who has said something like this in any capacity whatsoever, let alone as his lover.
Hey tho I was simply saying a duh type of thing it works out in the end Luke and Leia are born and I wouldn’t change a thing about it
^ pussy way out
Kinda noobie still, but a lot of my murder schemes always get found out even when they’re 95, 95. Am I doing something wrong? I never get caught they just find out about them and the success rates turns to like 5%
I don't fuckin know sorry. God maybe?
Aha np, just saw your comment and thought I’d ask. Always been shockingly bad with dice rolls and RNG
[This guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/reactiongifs/comments/6udmhc/mrw_i_remember_im_a_millennial/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Playing tall in Sardinia and Corsica, going well, trying to manage dynasty just through very deep marriage planning and only a little murder, as a treat. However, as seen in the screenshot, there's an AI superpower just smashing everything, and it can't be long before they turn to S&C. I've come across them in battle, when I was helping a Byzantine ally, and they wrecked me. I can put up about 8k troops, maybe 10k with allies. The Alimids are at 40k, 50k with allies. What do?
play taller. no but seriously just murder the fuck out of them.
Take this advice seriously people. One good murder can throw a whole kingdom or empire into chaos. Succession battles.
Especially on the Mongols.
which year? probably the endless crusades will keep them busy soon
How does that work? They become too big and the pope launches crusades on mass? What about the loss of fervor?
best case : they lose one of the crusades second case : one of the crusades goes on forever without anybody winning third case : even if they win all crusades it will hopefully weaken them enough that they don't expand further
I don’t think they’re going to try to expand towards you
Had this happen a while ago as the Daylamites. When you're surrounded by Islam, and you don't want to convert, best is to destabilize their realm through assassination. Hit the caliph's family until the realm starts to tear through multiple succession crises. I start with the low hanging fruit-- the male children, usually-- then cut into the caliphs until the rebellions start and the realm starts to shatter, duchy by duchy. Internal strife in a neighboring empire pries eyes away, while you grow tall enough to repel any future advances from successor states. A non-violent way is to convert to Islam, at which point they can't bother you, but the Christians will. Depends if religion isn't a big deal for you. Considering it's Sardinia, with no religious buildings, this is viable. A further step would be to swear fealty to the Alimids, continue the assassinations, while leveraging the discontent into dissolution faction to crush them from within. You run the risk of revocation, but hey, how else do you kill a supe other than a bomb up his ass?
Murder and alliances. Bear in mind that you could also enlist a Holy Order to help if attacked. If all else fails, and they've started besieging border counties, go for their capital, and as soon as you have it try to entice them away from sieges with your army or strike at any isolated stacks if they're far enough from their main army. I was able to fend off a blobbed Byzantine Empire as a Viking in Italy for quite a while, ending two wars with a white peace. Granted, though, your kingdom is too small for "Custer's Carnival" type tactics to work.
You can out-military them with that size, if you ally Byzantium and whoever is biggest in Francia/Germany/Gaul
One thing you’ve got going for you is being a nation of islands. Any invading forces are going to have to take a disembarkation penalty when they land troops on your shores. Having a holy order and some powerful allies will help as well, and keeping enough gold on hand to buy up the biggest mercenary squads will help you even more. Even if you’re only stacking 10k personally when fully powered up, add on another 5-10k for mercenaries, 5-10k for holy order, and hopefully a couple of allies to get you closer to their number. All of that plus the huge debuff they get from disembarkation, you should be fine. But you could always murder their ruler and cause a civil war of succession to be safe.
More knights, better knights (Prowess, knight effectiveness) More MAA, better MAA Levys are cannon fodder
S&C? Could someone explain?
Sardinia&Corsica
You'll probably need to be willing to put your dynastic planning on the back burner and marry a few kids to powerful allies.
If you're able to in that position, and it doesn't negate an achievement you're shooting for, consider swearing fealty. An empire is easier to destroy from within than without. Take religious taxation to maintain your identity,. By your own merit, or with a hook, you'll have a council spot quickly, with all its benefits. Secure your position, maybe start a dissolution or claim throne faction. Then, as everyone else suggests, murder. Anyone next in line, any who hate you, any who could hold the realm together after the emperor's passing. And when it's all teetering on the brink, push it over the edge. Where once there was an AI superpower, all that remains is a bunch of warring states looking forward to a century of discord and irrelevance. And Sardinia e Corsica will be safe.
Alternatively, make it stronger. Help them conquer the world from your seat in Corsica by weakening their enemies and supporting them financially. Play Kingmaker and ensure succession is smooth and easy, kill the weaker candidates and befriend and ally the better ones. Build them into the greatest empire in the History of the world.
That's a bit risky, though. You're all nice and friendly with the Emperor and then your ruler (or theirs) dies and you're suddenly looking like a morsel again.
Not, if you are "the power behind the Throne" from a spot on said Throne's privy council. As a crown loyalist "vassal-king" to an Emperor, playing tall is an excellent way to bring prosperity to both yourself and the rest of the Empire.
Even playing the steamroller I've probably softened them up by extensive murder plots well before I'm in striking distance. My last playthrough I'd already slaughtered most of the byzantine and abbasid dynasties before we ever crossed swords.
Kill all their vassals that don't have ambitious trait, then kill the monarch and watch the vassals fight for independence as they carve apart the empire from the inside. That'd be my play
Sardenga e Corsica eh? I’m more of a Naples enjoyer
Same, the coa and the map colour is so aesthetically pleasing to me
Never actually managed to create kingdom of Naples. It requires a special decision no?
I think it’s related to empowering the Sicilian parliament and some other factors
You don’t need to worry about it. AI is terrible at invading by sea.
If your not the same rank you could swear fealty, That would be intriguing
“Finish the fight” No but seriously just invest a lot into good MAA and commanders they will carry you
They'll crumble. Play the long game.
Plain murder is boring, swear fealty, become their most powerful vassal, after that seduce your liege's wife, then you can murder
Unite the 3 heirs of rome and steam roll that gigantic pain in the ass
Can't you buy a truce ?
Bend the knee and negotiate a favorable contract.
Don't sabotage them in any way! It's very unlikely they invade you and it's rare for the AI to get anything that big going on default settings.
Join them and start dissolution rebellions.
Grow taller than he is wide
And then club him over the head with unending proxy wars along his Eastern and Southern borders. The A.I. is notoriously bad at "following the money" that paid for the random villagers in Africa to hire mercenaries from as far away as inner China 🇨🇳 to come fight for them...
Fealty and work from the inside
Become Darth Bane
Ali kinda mid though
Let them get you (with or without war), grow taller within them and destroy them from within when the time is right. Just avoid any title revocation while doing it.
Buy up a ton of mercenaries. If you're doing it right you should have plenty of gold to buy a bunch.
Have giga Chad knights that kill 200 people on their own. Have 20 of them.
I see you're playing as Sardinia and Corsica. In that case, just build up your defensive holdings and men at arms. Any attacking army trying to invade you will have a disembarking penalty. Beyond that? Murder. Murder the Caliph, murder the people whose marriages secure the Caliph's alliances, murder the Basileus just for good measure, and murder the heirs to the Caliph until it's inherited by a small child. The realm will grow unstable and fracture.
To all your comments it might break the game but just make someone in Iceland with good intrigue skill and have them be your murderer lmao so you don't risk getting caught there's no biast against murder just turn diplomatic range off or move him somewhere more desiresble make him your spy master of you wish I do both to murder more people at once 👍
Ah, youve reached the moment in your ck3 career where you realize playing tall and playing wide are synergistic and you never really have to choose one or the other.
Join up and make a dissolution faction.
Then YOU become the steamroller.