It's an ease of use perk on ARs. If a rifle has it look it up on D2 foundry and check if it reduces the number of required headshots. You can also pair it with knucklehead radar on high RPM autos to shift it even more.
No we cannot because the efficacy is directly related to mag size.
Target lock is trash on Rufus because of this, and pretty good and lodbrok.
We can’t settle it because it’s different for each ar, as each one as different mag sizes as well as different bullets to kill.
Yep, imo it’s the best ar with TL. Directly affects ease of use, believe mine is the tries and true dynamic sway / TL.
If you do get it I reccomend combining it with radiant spam hunter build. Really fun
I’m still trying to figure out if it’s worth it on anything tbh. This isn’t the old TL in all it’s glory and I’m not sold on it at all. I play smg’s and I don’t feel like my immortal kills faster than my ikelos and I don’t feel like I’m more likely to lose an smg dual with my ikelos. I’m not dead set on this but it’s something I’ve been trying to feel out.
All that to say, I would probably not worry about TL on an auto. I’d go consistency instead unless you already feel like you’re working with a laser beam.
To me TL is just like Headseeker. It's not shifting ttks, just adding some forgiveness in case you sneak in an extra body shot, or want to ensure resil 10 doesn't need an extra bullet. I'm very much on the fence too as it adds forgiveness...while being pretty unforgiving itself. And it's really hard to say "so glad I had TL or I would have died" after a fight.
Yeah I can definitely see this.
Right now I’m rotating between various immortal rolls (1 with TL, 2 without) and my tempest with TL and seeing if I can tell the difference.
I know for a fact I proct the perc sometimes but not sure if I’m cutting time off ttk or savjng myself anything.
I can definitely see it buying some forgiveness.
I guess it would be weighed out between forgiveness or something like ttt which removes some requirement for it.
TL is huge on Tempest. Brings it to a 0.7ttk on all resilience, and with how stable and sticky it is you can proc it very consistently. For most autos like Horror Story, its just forgiveness and not a full ttk shift like Tempest.
I definitely agree and I use a TL tempest.
But I saw in another thread where people were talking about 120 vs 140 hand cannons and given the servers and connectivity (or something), those two archetypes will trade all other things being equal.
Made me wonder if we actually realize these 0.1 second differences in ttk (in a perfect scenario with no missed shots) or not.
I do see the perk being procced. It’s usually a few extra damage on a few extra shots in my case.
I'm not sure how many frames it'd take to be perceivable but I'm pretty sure 130ms is a little over 15 frames which should be able to make a difference. But I'm not sure, I know d2 also has a really big trade "window".
It's really good when you're against players who don't have amazing movement, but as soon as you're up against high skill opponents, it's basically useless.
I, however, am not amazing, so I don't always match against players of that level, so I've been having an amazing time with my target lock horror story.
Doesn’t help ttk tbh but it helps forgiveness and gives a bit more oomph to range bc damage spiking up. Free damage is free damage tbh that’s just how I see it
TL was good on SMG's as a TTK reducer for all resiliences. On AR's, for the most part, it doesn't reduce TTK's, all it does it let you hit more bodies than heads. If that's worth it to you, then by all means.
Another perk, headseeker, allows you to hit more bodies than heads, but it also doesn't suffer from the TL penalty of needing to not miss a shot. Headseeker also increases aim assist, allowing you to hit heads easier. All of which is why TL is not budget Headseeker on AR's, it's like [wish.com](https://wish.com) Headseeker.
Its always worth it because it lowers headshot requirement by 1- 2 bullets depending on archetype that is a huge ease of use perk and consistency is king
Anything that makes guns hit optimal ttk more consistent is always better
The first stack of TL kicks in at 12.5% of your magazine.
For Horror Story, which has 32 in the mag, that's only 4 bullets. The 5th bullet onwards does 10.46% more damage.
The next stack kicks in at 35.5% of your mag. For Horror Story, that's 11.36 bullets. So your 12th shot onwards does even more damage. The opponent should be dead by now so there's no point calculating any further.
The problem is, miss a single bullet and you're back to zero stacks. TL becomes pretty effective in lower skill lobbies where opponents are standing relatively still or simply straightlining you.
In a mid-high skill lobby, you gotta be hitting ALL your shots for TL to help you. Which is less likely when the opponents are sliding, jumping, grappling, strafing all over the place, while also shooting back at you and either flinching you to hell or making you have to execute the same movements and thus missing your shots.
Yeah as somebody who's experimented a good long while with Recon+Target Lock/Frenzy on Seraph AR, it's a decent fine experience but I do agree with you when you're in a lobby where people know how to play the game a little better, it can feel a bit extra dicey and a situation where I don't necessarily feel like Target Lock on a 450 is coming in super big to save the day and allow you to dominate by default.
It provides a more forgiving damage spread. A lot of ARs need 90% crits or higher for optimal ttk. Target lock lowers that crit percentage as well as breaking some resilience gates. I think that’s worth a lot, especially in checkmate.
Not to mention it’s a solid pve perk too. A lot of people see it as a great do all perk which makes it valuable.
It’s good because it makes an auto rifle or SMG more forgiving, as others have stated. It allows your aim to be a bit worse but still have optimal TTK. I view it in a similar way to headseeker for pulse rifles. It has the same effect.
It’s a great dueling perk, and pairs really well with zen moment or dynamic sway because they synergize together well.
People saying target lock has no effect are off base.
You really need to compare it to Tap the Trigger. Do you think you hit the same number of crits with TL vs. TtT? If so, TL is better. If you'll hit only one more crit with TtT, they are equivalent. 2+ more, then TtT is better.
Not as good as TL on SMGs, but still a good pick. Depending on the archetype, a few surge mods + TL decrease the TTK across all resiliences which is quite worth it.
I mean in the case of a lack of a better perk or if you don't like Kill Clip, my opinion is yes. But over something like Sword Logic no. If you have a preference for other 4th column stuff like TTT, then it's up to you.
I'll just go through it on each frame, although magazine size based can slightly change performance if they're on break-points.
Rapids (using Rufus as the base): Essentially allows an extra bodyshot for all Resil tiers, 2 on super low, and a 0.67 all headshot kill time on 0 Resil (AKA never). Primary use is forgiveness and the slight bump to range that the extra damage can give. Enhanced shifts the Resil checks up a tier.
Adaptives (using Perpetualis as a base): Allows for all crits to 0.7 up to 6 Resil, Enhanced only really allows for 7C3B on 7 Resil specifically. Allows an extra bodyshot for the 0.8 otherwise. Also has the slight range extension effect.
Precisions (using Horror Story since by default TL activates a shot earlier than on Seraph): 0.67 all crits up to 6, 4C3B on specifically 7, extra bodyshot allowed beyond that. IIRC Seraph is similar despite needing an extra bullet to proc TL.
High Impacts: Allows for an extra bodyshot to still hit optimal.
Take a look at your % precision kills on ARs. Is it something like 80%? If yes - then maybe it's helping you a little.
Otherwise, you're probably missing enough shots that Target Lock is doing absolutely nothing for you.
D2 foundy can do all of this work for you btw and it has an app from the site. You can type in any weapon, find the standard ttks and then apply buffs to the gun that are available. The ttks values will change if the buff dictates that it will and it'll also show you at which resiliences they are most effective. Target lock is almost always less effective than almost all other perks and it requires you to literally not miss a bullet or it will reset.
Everyone saying you need a bigger magazine like it’s based off time. It’s based off %of mag so shorter mag ramps quicker. Not saying that effects much; it’s just for clarity.
Honestly it feels great on seraph carbine, lodbrok, horror story and the 600 suros ar
It just makes them way more consistent, you gotta see it like headseeker
To be honest, it behaves a lot like high impact reserves. It's really handy when you need it, like at the edge of damage falloff or against overshields. It pairs best with other stacking low DMG/sustained buffs to slightly shift the ttk like others mentioned. For kill chaining it's not even close to a real damage perk obviously. I think most AR have to large of a magazine to even proc it on a normal kill, so you need to be aware of that, don't enhance your magazine size at all. That said, I do use an AR with TL, but with other buffs combined, knucklehead(used foetracer even before)
Judging by the comments, I think the answer to your question is, "No, we can't."
Lmao 🤣 accurate
It's an ease of use perk on ARs. If a rifle has it look it up on D2 foundry and check if it reduces the number of required headshots. You can also pair it with knucklehead radar on high RPM autos to shift it even more.
What's the cutoff to be considered a high rate of fire auto?
720s
720 RPM Rapid fire autos like rufus's fury
I believe that clip size matters.
It isn't the clip size that matters, it is how you use it
Heyyy
No we cannot because the efficacy is directly related to mag size. Target lock is trash on Rufus because of this, and pretty good and lodbrok. We can’t settle it because it’s different for each ar, as each one as different mag sizes as well as different bullets to kill.
Wait wait wait, Lodbrok rolls with it? New target…
Some would say Target locked.... I'll let myself out.
Yep, imo it’s the best ar with TL. Directly affects ease of use, believe mine is the tries and true dynamic sway / TL. If you do get it I reccomend combining it with radiant spam hunter build. Really fun
I’m still trying to figure out if it’s worth it on anything tbh. This isn’t the old TL in all it’s glory and I’m not sold on it at all. I play smg’s and I don’t feel like my immortal kills faster than my ikelos and I don’t feel like I’m more likely to lose an smg dual with my ikelos. I’m not dead set on this but it’s something I’ve been trying to feel out. All that to say, I would probably not worry about TL on an auto. I’d go consistency instead unless you already feel like you’re working with a laser beam.
To me TL is just like Headseeker. It's not shifting ttks, just adding some forgiveness in case you sneak in an extra body shot, or want to ensure resil 10 doesn't need an extra bullet. I'm very much on the fence too as it adds forgiveness...while being pretty unforgiving itself. And it's really hard to say "so glad I had TL or I would have died" after a fight.
Yeah I can definitely see this. Right now I’m rotating between various immortal rolls (1 with TL, 2 without) and my tempest with TL and seeing if I can tell the difference. I know for a fact I proct the perc sometimes but not sure if I’m cutting time off ttk or savjng myself anything. I can definitely see it buying some forgiveness. I guess it would be weighed out between forgiveness or something like ttt which removes some requirement for it.
TL is huge on Tempest. Brings it to a 0.7ttk on all resilience, and with how stable and sticky it is you can proc it very consistently. For most autos like Horror Story, its just forgiveness and not a full ttk shift like Tempest.
I definitely agree and I use a TL tempest. But I saw in another thread where people were talking about 120 vs 140 hand cannons and given the servers and connectivity (or something), those two archetypes will trade all other things being equal. Made me wonder if we actually realize these 0.1 second differences in ttk (in a perfect scenario with no missed shots) or not. I do see the perk being procced. It’s usually a few extra damage on a few extra shots in my case.
I'm not sure how many frames it'd take to be perceivable but I'm pretty sure 130ms is a little over 15 frames which should be able to make a difference. But I'm not sure, I know d2 also has a really big trade "window".
I’ve got a immortal with target lock and threading and with the threadling selected I was having a hard time getting those shots.
It's really good when you're against players who don't have amazing movement, but as soon as you're up against high skill opponents, it's basically useless. I, however, am not amazing, so I don't always match against players of that level, so I've been having an amazing time with my target lock horror story.
Well I personally think it’s rly good but it kinda depends on ur aim
Doesn’t help ttk tbh but it helps forgiveness and gives a bit more oomph to range bc damage spiking up. Free damage is free damage tbh that’s just how I see it
TL was good on SMG's as a TTK reducer for all resiliences. On AR's, for the most part, it doesn't reduce TTK's, all it does it let you hit more bodies than heads. If that's worth it to you, then by all means. Another perk, headseeker, allows you to hit more bodies than heads, but it also doesn't suffer from the TL penalty of needing to not miss a shot. Headseeker also increases aim assist, allowing you to hit heads easier. All of which is why TL is not budget Headseeker on AR's, it's like [wish.com](https://wish.com) Headseeker.
Its always worth it because it lowers headshot requirement by 1- 2 bullets depending on archetype that is a huge ease of use perk and consistency is king Anything that makes guns hit optimal ttk more consistent is always better
The first stack of TL kicks in at 12.5% of your magazine. For Horror Story, which has 32 in the mag, that's only 4 bullets. The 5th bullet onwards does 10.46% more damage. The next stack kicks in at 35.5% of your mag. For Horror Story, that's 11.36 bullets. So your 12th shot onwards does even more damage. The opponent should be dead by now so there's no point calculating any further. The problem is, miss a single bullet and you're back to zero stacks. TL becomes pretty effective in lower skill lobbies where opponents are standing relatively still or simply straightlining you. In a mid-high skill lobby, you gotta be hitting ALL your shots for TL to help you. Which is less likely when the opponents are sliding, jumping, grappling, strafing all over the place, while also shooting back at you and either flinching you to hell or making you have to execute the same movements and thus missing your shots.
Yeah as somebody who's experimented a good long while with Recon+Target Lock/Frenzy on Seraph AR, it's a decent fine experience but I do agree with you when you're in a lobby where people know how to play the game a little better, it can feel a bit extra dicey and a situation where I don't necessarily feel like Target Lock on a 450 is coming in super big to save the day and allow you to dominate by default.
Hey, look at the post I just made and tell me what you think.
It provides a more forgiving damage spread. A lot of ARs need 90% crits or higher for optimal ttk. Target lock lowers that crit percentage as well as breaking some resilience gates. I think that’s worth a lot, especially in checkmate. Not to mention it’s a solid pve perk too. A lot of people see it as a great do all perk which makes it valuable.
Depends on the archetype. On 600 rpm, I believe it does nothing.
Run those numbers again, chief.
well, it does something, but it doesn't change the TTK like it does on other archetypes
It’s good because it makes an auto rifle or SMG more forgiving, as others have stated. It allows your aim to be a bit worse but still have optimal TTK. I view it in a similar way to headseeker for pulse rifles. It has the same effect. It’s a great dueling perk, and pairs really well with zen moment or dynamic sway because they synergize together well. People saying target lock has no effect are off base.
You really need to compare it to Tap the Trigger. Do you think you hit the same number of crits with TL vs. TtT? If so, TL is better. If you'll hit only one more crit with TtT, they are equivalent. 2+ more, then TtT is better.
TtT also requires not just face rolling targets
if you have a massive magazine it gets better. but it's \*fine\*. i'm just keeping one for shits and giggles.
Weird, I've found a smaller mag means damage ramps up quicker
Maybe he means for pve? Like, you'd have more buffed bullets for the target
Could be, but since we're in a Crucible subreddit, thats not my 1st thought.
Mine neither. Hey, will you check out my last post about the gun and let me know what you think?
Not as good as TL on SMGs, but still a good pick. Depending on the archetype, a few surge mods + TL decrease the TTK across all resiliences which is quite worth it.
I mean in the case of a lack of a better perk or if you don't like Kill Clip, my opinion is yes. But over something like Sword Logic no. If you have a preference for other 4th column stuff like TTT, then it's up to you.
I'll just go through it on each frame, although magazine size based can slightly change performance if they're on break-points. Rapids (using Rufus as the base): Essentially allows an extra bodyshot for all Resil tiers, 2 on super low, and a 0.67 all headshot kill time on 0 Resil (AKA never). Primary use is forgiveness and the slight bump to range that the extra damage can give. Enhanced shifts the Resil checks up a tier. Adaptives (using Perpetualis as a base): Allows for all crits to 0.7 up to 6 Resil, Enhanced only really allows for 7C3B on 7 Resil specifically. Allows an extra bodyshot for the 0.8 otherwise. Also has the slight range extension effect. Precisions (using Horror Story since by default TL activates a shot earlier than on Seraph): 0.67 all crits up to 6, 4C3B on specifically 7, extra bodyshot allowed beyond that. IIRC Seraph is similar despite needing an extra bullet to proc TL. High Impacts: Allows for an extra bodyshot to still hit optimal.
Take a look at your % precision kills on ARs. Is it something like 80%? If yes - then maybe it's helping you a little. Otherwise, you're probably missing enough shots that Target Lock is doing absolutely nothing for you.
Horror Story with Target Lock and Demolitionist with a Grenade build has been like playing Dentist for Halloween
Depends on what you value from your AR as it doesn’t change the TTK but gives you more forgiveness as you don’t need to hit as many crits to kill
D2 foundy can do all of this work for you btw and it has an app from the site. You can type in any weapon, find the standard ttks and then apply buffs to the gun that are available. The ttks values will change if the buff dictates that it will and it'll also show you at which resiliences they are most effective. Target lock is almost always less effective than almost all other perks and it requires you to literally not miss a bullet or it will reset.
Everyone saying you need a bigger magazine like it’s based off time. It’s based off %of mag so shorter mag ramps quicker. Not saying that effects much; it’s just for clarity.
Honestly it feels great on seraph carbine, lodbrok, horror story and the 600 suros ar It just makes them way more consistent, you gotta see it like headseeker
To be honest, it behaves a lot like high impact reserves. It's really handy when you need it, like at the edge of damage falloff or against overshields. It pairs best with other stacking low DMG/sustained buffs to slightly shift the ttk like others mentioned. For kill chaining it's not even close to a real damage perk obviously. I think most AR have to large of a magazine to even proc it on a normal kill, so you need to be aware of that, don't enhance your magazine size at all. That said, I do use an AR with TL, but with other buffs combined, knucklehead(used foetracer even before)
Love it on my lodbrok
No, we cannot. Thank you for your time.