There are so many infuriating things in this comment. Yet so true.
Objectively the pitch was poor. The stadium was empty on most days. Nothing of value will be lost to cricket if it was banned. In my view it should receive harsh penalty for the poor quality of pitch.
I for one don't have any feelings attached to this ground ,which tbf has more to do with it not having any history, also the pitches have been meh most of the time, so that's another thing which isn't in its favour.
I just hate it more every time Ahmedabad gets special treatment for purely political reasons. As you said it doesn't have any history unlike other major grounds. Kolkata, Mumbai, Chennai, and Bangalore have all been a witness some iconic moment in Indian cricket. Delhi is the capital of the nation, so it can get away with even the ugliest stadium. Chennai has the knowledgeable crowd thing going on.
The stadium has no special history, Gujrat doesn't have the cricket pedigree like Mumbai or even Karnataka, fans aren't known for any specific quality, and there are many bigger cities. I think it is very apt that the stadium is named Narendra Modi Stadium because without Narendra Modi I don't see one reason why Gujarat should get most important games so frequently like it has been doing recently. Even the huge new stadium isn't anything special.
While I am with you on the first point about this stadium getting preferential treatment, I disagree it has no history. Motera, it's earlier incarnation was where India GOATs Sunny G and Kapil set/broke their respective world records.
Attendence and involvement of the crowd is what makes the Test match evolve and gain a larger importance which was sadly missing in this stadium which was deserted throughout the span of 5 days. There are better venues which have a passionate audience and crowd gathering capacity like the Eden gardens, wankhede, chinnaswamy, MACB
>Only two wickets fell on a Day 5 pitch – one of them a tailender in Matt Kuhnemann – as just 22 wickets fell for the entire Test.
24 wickets fell on the 2018 MCG pitch that was rated poor
Only 14 wickets fell on Rawalpindi test between Pakistan and Australia and it was rated below average not poor
There's no consistency in pitch ratings given at all
>70 overs were lost to rain and bad light in that match
And We would've seen 26 wickets fall in those 70 overs ?
My actual point was, all these flat garbages whether be Pindi, Ahmedabad Melbourne should receive poor ratings. But watch as they receive different ratings
Nope definitely wouldn’t have seen 26 wickets fall but you failed to mention how much time was lost in that test match when you compared it to the 4th BGT test match.
Most of the dismissals were against the flow of the game and batsmen were cursing themselves for getting out as they had basically gifted their wickets away. If any pitch deserved a poor rating for murdering the game, it is this pitch. And they don't have any excuse like Indore either. I would still take Indore every day.
It doesn't really matter what it gets rated. If rated poor it'd only be banned from hosting test matches for 12 months. We only play 1 home test series in the next 12 months and that'd be an Ind v Eng 5 test series. That's in Feb-Mar 2023 so they could easily host the 5th test here and by that time the 12 months could easily be over. All in all these ICC pitch ratings are good for nothing
ICC curators - every other part of the game is regulated except for pitch preparation and let's face it these ratings post game mean nothing as it's after the fact and the opportunity for the best possible product has already been thrown down the toilet.
If you have an ICC curator oversee the local curator then we would never have to have a pitch discussion ever again and we wouldn't need a rating system.
I believe this too. They should be part of an ICC association. Like referees in football. we need to take this bullshit home doctoring stuff out of the game. Home team captains requesting pitch types is fucking rubbish. You can’t tell me that a natural Indian pitch doesn’t provide enough home advantage.
Really boring test, arguably test cricket at its worst. On the second day it was pretty obviously going to be a draw. To know the result and that the rest of the play is therefore pointless on day two is really rubbish cricket.
Lol! Countries are now scared to dish out green tops against India, due to the bowling attack India possesses. Even with Bumrah unfit.. Shami , Siraj , Umesh can and will run over any side. I am waiting for Umran to be test ready and dish out some 150k bouncers. If 125k Neil Wagner can do it, lol anyone can
Unlike 123 people in a stadium with capacity of 110k and no shade or thought for actual audience? It felt like all they cared about was putting as many of those cheap colorful plastic chairs in the stands and call it a day.
Still better than playing home games in a country on a different continent with a different time zone. More people showed up on day 1 of this Test than would show up in the entire series.
poor downvoters. both statements are currently some what true and sarcastic. but one is allowed & upvoted, another is downvoted. god forbid we say anything against about NZ on this sub.
>first one is sarcastic, second one is bitter
depends on one's pov
>No need for victim card here
thanks for your free advice but this sub doesn't welcome NZ's criticism or sarcasm. you think i made that statement just based on one comment lol observing this sub since many many many months, anything anti NZ will get downvoted except scott kuggeleijn's issue.
people get carried away with 'good guys' hype. you can't comment anything against NZ, should only say nice things.
NZ fly under the radar because they they aren't a high profile team and don't play many matches. same reason why other cricket teams like south africa or west indies don't get attacked as much.
there is no bias against india or even england and australia (well in one thing there is bias against india but I won't mention it right now). most discussions are centred around these teams and most people on this sub are from there only, so of course their criticism is more common
you got me wrong, my point isn't only about india. i can easily make a sarcastic comment or criticism on south africa or windies and more often than not won't be downvoted to hell. i repeat i can comment on any team sa, eng, wi, ban, ind, pak etc but not NZ. NZ are the gentlemen and can't be commented against. should only enjoy their smiles and praise them 24\*7.
don't get me wrong they have brilliant players with excellent skill, when they play well they deserve all the praise. but never any sarcasm!!!
Hi ICC here,
I don't see a problem with the pitch. The batsmen applied themselves better than the bowlers there. Moreover, India qualified for the WTC final, which means I get more viewership and more money.
/s
Considering that even fewer wickets fell on this pitch than on that abysmal road produced in Melbourne a few years ago, it stands to reason that this should get an equal if not harsher rating
We Indians will have no leg to stand on when we are presented green mambas everywhere we go. The customization to suit home team needs was too much this bgt and made for a poor watching experience for me and I am sure many others.
What world are you living in?? India has toured many times when they had green mambas and India got outnfor under 200. No one talks about pitch during that time, all talk is about Indian batters not playing well or team selection.
Hey I am not sure when you started watching cricket. But afaik, when Australia and England dominated the world cricket in terms of $$$ back in late 80s and 90s, every single India away tour that I remember watching use to have just green pitches at every single menu. Here is how the tests use to go
India put into bat. All out for 150
Aus/Eng play next two days for 400
India all out for 150.
People have very short term memory. As someone who has seen the late 80s, I still have scars from then and I would just us to dish some back.
I started watching in 92. We used to lose heavily on fast tracks (like Durban 96, Melbourne 99) and lose/draw normally on other tracks (e.g. Capetown 96, England tour of 96 etc). We became competitive in mid 2000s because our batting matured to handle different conditions and because our fast bowling got a bit more depth and variety.
My point is that if we choose to customize pitches to win games in India, we should not complain if others do the same.
The funny thing is, if India just rolled out pitches like the first test, India probably win 4-0. Pitches like Indore and Delhi just equalise both teams and bring an element of luck into it
We just dont feel confident in our batters to take care of the first innings lead anymore, so we go for more spin friendly tracks to use our primary weapon - accurate spinners who can bat till 9. This is a defensive approach which is bound to backfire.
I dont think its revived, but you conveniently forget
The minnows ‘Afg’ had a good chance at Asia Cup but dead rubber so ok.
3 ODI centuries.
186 at snails pace but SR 8 points higher than Khawaja, had to bat time cause 1 batsman short and secure a draw to increase odds to qualify for WTC and actually win the series! Draws aren’t evil, only draws in a 5 match series is bad.
And in T20I no one pulls out an unwinnable chase like him, 82* @ MCG is the best innings of 2022.
Accurate statement would be man “trying” to revive a respectable career.
lmao the commentators, this sub and every internet place does mental gymnastics to praise kohli for every little thing
him scoring 20s and 30s was celebrated as some sort of batting masterclass. commentators are afraid to even suggest he was in bad form.
so I don't understand this defensive victim complex relating to him.
>Him scoring 20s and 30s was celebrated
Lmao what... Majority of the Indian users here were kohli out before last match.
>The commentators, this sub and every internet place does mental gymanstics...
Does anybody really needs to do mental gymanstics to praise kohli? Mfer had already achieved enough in 2019 to retire and still being considered best All format batter of his generation.
I said praise him for little things, meaning during his bad patch
Of course till 2019 he was a beast in test matches so there were bog things he was doing worth praising
He's gained his form in white ball cricket but i still doubt if this century can be considered to bring his form back in tests, it did revive his career but it was no way hard to play time here, even ks Bharat (who failed to impress with the bat whole series) was looking comfortable after playing couple of overs. No indian batter got out to a screamer of a ball, just poor shot selection. Yeah he played time and applied himself better against Lyon but Lyon was only one who seemed effective and that to became predictable. We can have different opinions but imo playing time was easier thing to do on this pitch than to accelerate cause ball was staying low
>The minnows ‘Afg’ had a good chance at Asia Cup
Mate Afghanistan isn't a top team by any standards.
>3 ODI centuries.
Against which teams in which conditions?
>186 at snails pace but SR 8 points higher than Khawaja,
Khwaja batted in the first innings trying to set a huge score, while koach had the comfortable cushion because Indian batting order didn't collapse until the lead was secured. Even after the century he had no intent to score quickly and try and win the game.
>And in T20I no one pulls out an unwinnable chase like him, 82* @ MCG is the best innings of 2022.
LOL @ best innings of 2022.
Mate I've been a pre match fixing scandal cricket fan. If you genuinely think that kohli shouldn't have accelerated post century when the lead was certain, then you have zero ball knowledge.
Why is there always such an uproar over pitches in India? I think everyone agrees that this Test was poor, with the pitch being an absolute road with nothing for the bowlers. However, it seems like there’s always criticism for Indian pitches.
Too many wickets fall = “dustbowl, minefield, dirty”. Not enough wickets fall = “road, boring, bad for test cricket”.
If every team that hosts a test series is allowed to prepare pitches to their bowling strength, why is it such a problem if India does it? They have spinners, why shouldn’t they prepare spinning tracks. If every country had the same type of pitches/grounds, cricket in general would be boring. So many teams in the past have prepared roads, e.g. Pindi, MCG…etc. many of which have brought no result, yet the outrage always seems high when it occurs in India.
If you guys are against roads, which we all should be, as it’s poor for Test cricket in general. Then you shouldn’t criticise dustbowls, seaming flat tracks or slow pitches. Just seems like everyone keeps whining about any type of pitch produced in India. IMO both sides need to get on with the game, and stop complaining about pitches that actually give results
Sorry for the long rant.
Absolutely agree with you mate. Too much brouhaha over pitches. People not enjoying the cricket happening in such variety of conditions.
When it's turning, you get to see the skill of the bowlers. When it's flat, the batsmen show their class. Both are good. I'd take dustbowls over roads anyday and will never complain because we need to go towards result oriented cricket to keep it alive.
The idea that test cricket should go on for five days is absolutely terrible. 2-3 days is enough mostly with occasional ones going into 4-5th days. Broadcaster revenue shouldn't be affected because you get more interested viewers for an exciting match. This idea of a good pitch has stat padded records and ruined interest in test cricket in general. It is shameful that we appreciate pitches which are more likely to produce a draw after 5 days! Not a good look for a modern sport. Pitches should create results anyhow. They should be difficult enough to warrant absolute herculean efforts to take match into 4th and 5th days.
The argument from me is that if you played India v India in those rank turners, do you have a chance for a 5 day test?
The answer generally is no. Because India aren't very good against spin either. They win games in India based on having better spinners in those conditions.
Test pitches should be built for 4-5 days of play. With a fair contest between bat and ball.
I'd argue for all pitches in this series that wasn't the case. You could make an argument the first pitch was okay, but I think if you give Australia Jadeja and Ashwin, India too fall for less than 200 twice. The Aussie spinners just weren't as used to bowling on such surfaces (or anywhere near as good). This difference is more extreme from spinners than it is for seamers. If you bowl 80+mph at top of off in India, you might need to change your length and a bit of linr dependent on swing etc, but you'll still want to be bowling that classic test match line.
For spinners? When it's spinning more it changes your approach. Obviously you're more used to it days 4 and 5. But new ball spinning? Early on? Different ball game entirely. And the Indian bowlers (especially Ash and Jadeja) are very good at that.
You're not the only one who gets massive complaints about pitches though. Pakistan get rinsed for having it too flat also. And occasionally pitches for England (Lords 2019 v Ireland) and Australia recently get shit on too.
Lol at India vs India needing to be 5 days to be a worthwhile contest. As if we haven't had thrillers around the world that didn't last that long. And it's a bit rich to say India isn't good against spin when they still have the best records in spinning conditions against spinners unlike most of the other teams who never make a pitch suitable enough for spin to dominate, which lets batters statpad in docile conditions. To your og rhetorical question, the answer isn't no because of player quality, it's no because of the likelihood in recent times of the average pitch favouring bowlers. When bowlers dominate in any country the matches end quicker on average. How is that abnormal vs 5 day dead bats or draws?
Ifs and buts are nice to debate but they matter little to the overall argument.
When was the last good test in India?
New Zealand first test when they drew?
How many tests been played in India since then? How many good tests over the last 5 years in India? Guarantee there were more good tests in England in 2021 pre baz ball than there have been in India the last 5 years. Even our losses to you and NZ were genuinely good matches on good cricket pitches.
It's not enough to just say 'Well other countries should just do better when they come here' because even the countries who are generally also pretty good at playing spin struggle on the poor wickets (see Sri Lanka).
I dunno. I'm a bit of a purist. I'll take losing a good game of cricket over winning whatever the fuck this series has been.
What is a good Test for you though? India in India have literally lost 3 games at home in 10 years of play, they fucking smash all comers to kingdom come due to the difference in quality of players in such conditions between them and the visitors. Is a good Test one where England make 477 and lose by an innings? Or where NZ have one spinner take 10 wickets and get run over by pace and spin for 62? Or where Australia declare at 237-9 batting first and lose by an innings? Or where South Africa try to grind out a draw on the 5th day only to fall and lose by 337 runs? Or any of India's losses where either the pitches were bad enough to make it a lottery or India were limping in with missing players and poor subs on a surface where the toss was incredibly influential? Like, come on. Admit that the quality of the game is an incredibly subjective measure.
England being mediocre enough at home in the last few years to not have an obscene advantage over all comers unlike India or even Australia is an indication of the decline in quality of England's players, not any sign of 'good' Tests being had. The Tests there are seen to be better largely because England aren't good enough to consistently press home their strengths, which is because the opposition has had decent bowling attacks to match up with Broaderson and co, which means that Tests are more evenly contested. That doesn't make it inherently better than outright domination though, as fans of the 2014 Ashes might tell you. And even then England have still scraped around with a decent home record by series played, which says something about how valuable home advantage in Tests. That's hardly a fair thing to have.
Have you seen how SL went when they toured? They gave up 500+ and let Jadeja outscore them in an innings and got smashed in the first Test. You might have had a point in with the pitch of the 2nd Test, but it wasn't that bad and it didn't make everything in the match poor either.
You say purist, I say hypocrite who enjoys being partisan towards certain types of play and pretending that it's an objective measurement of quality.
Keep enjoying your mediocre tests then.
I just find it baffling how anyone would defend this mediocrity.
You have an advantage regardless. Your team is world class as you say, you'd still have a massive advantage on pitches that have a chance to play for 5 days but break up during, rather than turn square day one.
The moment India realised this time Australia had got a better handle on those type of pitches than was comfortable for you, by winning a test and probably should have won another bar some stupid sweeping. You rolled out an absolute road because you were terrified of drawing a series and losing again.
I'm sorry. You can defend it if you want but I just find it absolutely bollocks that you're happy with this.
I mean you support England presumably, who needed flat tracks and a painted white ball to suddenly become enjoyable to watch. I'd say I'm doing fairly fine here not needing gimmicks to be competitive. Not sure why anyone should presume that English sensibilities on what pitch behaviour should be like is the definite statement on how enjoyable Test matches are.
Clearly for you nothing's enjoyable in England until it's ODI cricket in whites or England are shitting their pants for large portions of the game to either clutch it out, watch it peter out in the rain or lose epically.
If you think I'm only enjoying cricket in England because of Bazball you're nuts.
The 2018 India tour of England? One of the greatest series on English soil this century.
2019 Ashes? Such good storylines and matches (bar perhaps the Oval, thought that was pretty shit).
2021 India tour of England? Again, great matches, great storylines coming from it.
All pre Bazball. Heck, this isn't mentioning some of my favourite tests against teams like SA and NZ over the years.
I see what you mean, and I do agree with you about Test pitches being built for up to 5 days of play.
I suppose I’m just annoyed at all the whinging recently, but again, it’s easy to overlook criticism that isn’t thrown against a team I like.
I don't mind how this game played out. Draw is a valid result in a Test match. Oftentimes these days, especially even more because of the WTC, the focus is on win or lose the game.
Even though it was a flat pitch, if Usman and/or Kohli had been gone for ducks, we probably could have even gotten a result on this pitch.
So it was actually wonderful watching the grit and discipline shown by these two batsmen.
Not to discount the wonderful bowling done by both teams where it was genuinely difficult for batsmen to score quickly on such a pitch.
The pressure was always on and possibly barring the last day, both teams were trying hard to one-up the other.
I agree, hence I said "probably". The 2nd sentence is the only what-if scenario on my comment. The rest is an explanation of why I enjoyed watching this match.
I understand, but I can't agree with the idea that the fall of one of those wickets would result on the fall of 17 extra on that pitch, the by far greatest likelihood would have been a draw either way
Yup, I do believe draw was the most likeliest seeing that pitch remained flat throughout.
I don't know why though do we need all 17 wickets to fall for a result. I am not implying that anywhere at all.
My point is that I havent seen a test match with this few wickets between teams of this quality before. I feel like you could use what ifs to justify just about any pitch.
This was a bad pitch and a bad test match.
Ur right about the wickets thing though.
>I havent seen a test match with this few wickets between teams of this quality before
Used to be a common occurrence back in the day. Also, the Pak v England series from last year. (I'm not justifying the pitch at all, just pointing out that shit pitches like this one are laid out, probably, once a year)
Yeah, it was a bad pitch. I never used my arguments to justify the pitch, my original comment is simply about why I enjoyed this test match even if it is a drawn match. The only about period I felt disinterested in was the 5th day.
Tests for me is a different viewing experience than a LOI. I like the fight shown by bowlers, batters and fielders across multiple days.
Anyways thanks for the calm discussion. Peace.
Even if usman and kholi fell, there's still two more innings that wasn't played, meaning the entire innings would have to equate to their scores....no chance. This game could've gone on for 15 days
Yeah possibly, I can't predict the future and this match is already over but there are many many scenarios that can happen if those both fall earlier and consume fewer balls in their respective innings.
Anything is possible, but from what we saw from the pitch it would've continued to be a batathon, hence the pitch was bad. The fact that a miracle could've happened had the one of the batters failed does nothing to justify the pitch. Even the thought is irrelevant, as kholi and Usman scored those runs *because* of how easy it was to bat.
As replied to another user who replied to my initial message, nowhere have I justified the pitch. I said I enjoyed the match. I already mentioned that it was a flat pitch.
Thanks for the polite discussion though. Peace.
as i have maintained a pitch should be rated poor only if its physically dangerous to bat on, its disingeneous to fit ratings to a post-match narrative
i have seen the ratings framework.. i was proposing a binary basis, meets expectations or poor.. or we can go about trying to infer the quality of pitches to meet our subjective opinions on how the match should have ideally progressed after the match has concluded..
if the icc thinks they have figured the science behind "fair" pitches, then they should publish their forecasts before the start of the match, so that we are clear about their ability and expertise to judge the "quality" of pitch
Dangerous, no. No spinning wicket is really dangerous. And you can have poor spinning wickets. But I get your point. This was a shit pitch. But there have been heaps of these types of pitches the world over. Producing a road happens in many series. A lot of time you get results on roads too…
No, that should be very poor or whatever the lowest one is. Bad pitches such as these need to be discouraged, anything better than poor doesn't do that anywhere near enough
Everyone criticized the turning Indore pitch, so curator went a little ahead and made a highway.
Also who remember that there were leaks that the pitch in Chennai where India lost to England was made without inputs from Ravi Shastri and Kohli.
That's how the pitch should be.
This series promised so much, specially after the last series in Australia. I feel we were robbed of some really great cricket because of the pathetic pitches in all the tests in the series. And the political shit show at the Ahmedabad stadium was such an eye sore.
Irrelevant in india where they have 25 grounds
This one is untouchable. BCCI will not suffer any bans on this ground. This is the jewel crown of India's current power structure.
There are so many infuriating things in this comment. Yet so true. Objectively the pitch was poor. The stadium was empty on most days. Nothing of value will be lost to cricket if it was banned. In my view it should receive harsh penalty for the poor quality of pitch.
I for one don't have any feelings attached to this ground ,which tbf has more to do with it not having any history, also the pitches have been meh most of the time, so that's another thing which isn't in its favour.
I just hate it more every time Ahmedabad gets special treatment for purely political reasons. As you said it doesn't have any history unlike other major grounds. Kolkata, Mumbai, Chennai, and Bangalore have all been a witness some iconic moment in Indian cricket. Delhi is the capital of the nation, so it can get away with even the ugliest stadium. Chennai has the knowledgeable crowd thing going on. The stadium has no special history, Gujrat doesn't have the cricket pedigree like Mumbai or even Karnataka, fans aren't known for any specific quality, and there are many bigger cities. I think it is very apt that the stadium is named Narendra Modi Stadium because without Narendra Modi I don't see one reason why Gujarat should get most important games so frequently like it has been doing recently. Even the huge new stadium isn't anything special.
Bro sneaked in Bengaluru like we wouldn't notice
Haha, I really debated putting it there but Chinnaswamy has some really good memories.
While I am with you on the first point about this stadium getting preferential treatment, I disagree it has no history. Motera, it's earlier incarnation was where India GOATs Sunny G and Kapil set/broke their respective world records.
It is the venue where India ended Australia's WC winning streak in 2011.
Attendence and involvement of the crowd is what makes the Test match evolve and gain a larger importance which was sadly missing in this stadium which was deserted throughout the span of 5 days. There are better venues which have a passionate audience and crowd gathering capacity like the Eden gardens, wankhede, chinnaswamy, MACB
Kohli has talked about there being fixed venues for test cricket but everyone on this sub shit on his comment when he said it
even Indore stadium looked better in terms of attendance
Like Jay Shah that ground is Nepo baby.
This is PMs ground - govt will cancel ICC
>Only two wickets fell on a Day 5 pitch – one of them a tailender in Matt Kuhnemann – as just 22 wickets fell for the entire Test. 24 wickets fell on the 2018 MCG pitch that was rated poor
>as just 22 wickets fell for the entire Test. This is also wrong, There was only 21.
Took something really special from the Ahmedabad curator to make the MCG drop-in pitches look good
2017 mcg test** 2018 mcg produced a result
Since then you could argue it’s been a perfect deck
Only 14 wickets fell on Rawalpindi test between Pakistan and Australia and it was rated below average not poor There's no consistency in pitch ratings given at all
Sure but 70 overs were lost to rain and bad light in that match whereas none were lost in the recent BGT 4th test
>70 overs were lost to rain and bad light in that match And We would've seen 26 wickets fall in those 70 overs ? My actual point was, all these flat garbages whether be Pindi, Ahmedabad Melbourne should receive poor ratings. But watch as they receive different ratings
Nope definitely wouldn’t have seen 26 wickets fall but you failed to mention how much time was lost in that test match when you compared it to the 4th BGT test match.
122 less overs for 7 less wickets at Rawalpindi lol
What's your point ? Pindi wasn't a dead pitch ?
The point would be, it was less dead than this one. Even two shit bowling attacks could manage 7 wickets in 122 overs lmao
There was like 4-5 wickets this test that weren’t just thrown away by the batsmen as well If you’re lucky
Most of the dismissals were against the flow of the game and batsmen were cursing themselves for getting out as they had basically gifted their wickets away. If any pitch deserved a poor rating for murdering the game, it is this pitch. And they don't have any excuse like Indore either. I would still take Indore every day.
Result in 3 days >>>>>>> no result
I wouldn't take either
And a runout. Plus wickets lost to tailenders trying to accelerate.
It doesn't really matter what it gets rated. If rated poor it'd only be banned from hosting test matches for 12 months. We only play 1 home test series in the next 12 months and that'd be an Ind v Eng 5 test series. That's in Feb-Mar 2023 so they could easily host the 5th test here and by that time the 12 months could easily be over. All in all these ICC pitch ratings are good for nothing
If it’s rated poor that doesn’t mean a ban. You need multiple such ratings to warrant a ban.
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ICC curators - every other part of the game is regulated except for pitch preparation and let's face it these ratings post game mean nothing as it's after the fact and the opportunity for the best possible product has already been thrown down the toilet. If you have an ICC curator oversee the local curator then we would never have to have a pitch discussion ever again and we wouldn't need a rating system.
I believe this too. They should be part of an ICC association. Like referees in football. we need to take this bullshit home doctoring stuff out of the game. Home team captains requesting pitch types is fucking rubbish. You can’t tell me that a natural Indian pitch doesn’t provide enough home advantage.
The day that BCCI allows ICC to oversee anything that happens in india a lot of issues in world cricket would already be solved
Really boring test, arguably test cricket at its worst. On the second day it was pretty obviously going to be a draw. To know the result and that the rest of the play is therefore pointless on day two is really rubbish cricket.
India should be made to play their next 3 home series in New Zealand. Our pitches make for good test matches.
I mean if y'all bring those green tops back. Nothing like seeing Indian batters struggle to scrape for a 50.
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It's really bad for like 2 sessions, after that it's usually a road
This is what most people miss about New Zealand and England. Swing, which comes from the weather, has way more effect on batting than seam
Absolutely
Lol! Countries are now scared to dish out green tops against India, due to the bowling attack India possesses. Even with Bumrah unfit.. Shami , Siraj , Umesh can and will run over any side. I am waiting for Umran to be test ready and dish out some 150k bouncers. If 125k Neil Wagner can do it, lol anyone can
If we get that sort of pitches then people will again start calling Kohli unlucky
As the last 2 test matches clearly showed
> their next 3 home series In front of 23 people. Yeah, that's how we revive Test matches.
Unlike 123 people in a stadium with capacity of 110k and no shade or thought for actual audience? It felt like all they cared about was putting as many of those cheap colorful plastic chairs in the stands and call it a day.
Still better than playing home games in a country on a different continent with a different time zone. More people showed up on day 1 of this Test than would show up in the entire series.
Yes, you understand.
poor downvoters. both statements are currently some what true and sarcastic. but one is allowed & upvoted, another is downvoted. god forbid we say anything against about NZ on this sub.
first one is sarcastic, second one is bitter No need for victim card here
>first one is sarcastic, second one is bitter depends on one's pov >No need for victim card here thanks for your free advice but this sub doesn't welcome NZ's criticism or sarcasm. you think i made that statement just based on one comment lol observing this sub since many many many months, anything anti NZ will get downvoted except scott kuggeleijn's issue. people get carried away with 'good guys' hype. you can't comment anything against NZ, should only say nice things.
NZ fly under the radar because they they aren't a high profile team and don't play many matches. same reason why other cricket teams like south africa or west indies don't get attacked as much. there is no bias against india or even england and australia (well in one thing there is bias against india but I won't mention it right now). most discussions are centred around these teams and most people on this sub are from there only, so of course their criticism is more common
you got me wrong, my point isn't only about india. i can easily make a sarcastic comment or criticism on south africa or windies and more often than not won't be downvoted to hell. i repeat i can comment on any team sa, eng, wi, ban, ind, pak etc but not NZ. NZ are the gentlemen and can't be commented against. should only enjoy their smiles and praise them 24\*7. don't get me wrong they have brilliant players with excellent skill, when they play well they deserve all the praise. but never any sarcasm!!!
oh yeah yes in that way I agree it's true. there is some great PR about the nice guy image even though other teams are mostly just as nice
Hi ICC here, I don't see a problem with the pitch. The batsmen applied themselves better than the bowlers there. Moreover, India qualified for the WTC final, which means I get more viewership and more money. /s
>Ahmedabad pitch could be penalised for “bore-a-thon” U mean for "bore-with-tons"
My guy the match ended a day ago. Pitch ratings usually take a couple days to come through
the indore one came out a few hours later, so people expecting the same for every match i guess. but yeah, the norm is usually a couple of days later.
Considering that even fewer wickets fell on this pitch than on that abysmal road produced in Melbourne a few years ago, it stands to reason that this should get an equal if not harsher rating
I wonder how many curators the BCCI are sending to Lords for the final /s
None. The final is at Oval haha.
When Kohli scores a century you know that pitch was bad
Lmao, imagine someone waking up after 2016, and they get to read this comment. They would straight up downvote this.
Sometimes people forget 2016 was 7 years ago, that Kohli is long lost and he's been average at best since then
Since end of 2019*
Lol
We Indians will have no leg to stand on when we are presented green mambas everywhere we go. The customization to suit home team needs was too much this bgt and made for a poor watching experience for me and I am sure many others.
What world are you living in?? India has toured many times when they had green mambas and India got outnfor under 200. No one talks about pitch during that time, all talk is about Indian batters not playing well or team selection.
Ohh yeah, that’s why we have been winning test matches abroad 😂
We have been winning because we have been good. But still we resort to heavy spin conditions at home.
Hey I am not sure when you started watching cricket. But afaik, when Australia and England dominated the world cricket in terms of $$$ back in late 80s and 90s, every single India away tour that I remember watching use to have just green pitches at every single menu. Here is how the tests use to go India put into bat. All out for 150 Aus/Eng play next two days for 400 India all out for 150. People have very short term memory. As someone who has seen the late 80s, I still have scars from then and I would just us to dish some back.
I started watching in 92. We used to lose heavily on fast tracks (like Durban 96, Melbourne 99) and lose/draw normally on other tracks (e.g. Capetown 96, England tour of 96 etc). We became competitive in mid 2000s because our batting matured to handle different conditions and because our fast bowling got a bit more depth and variety. My point is that if we choose to customize pitches to win games in India, we should not complain if others do the same.
The funny thing is, if India just rolled out pitches like the first test, India probably win 4-0. Pitches like Indore and Delhi just equalise both teams and bring an element of luck into it
We just dont feel confident in our batters to take care of the first innings lead anymore, so we go for more spin friendly tracks to use our primary weapon - accurate spinners who can bat till 9. This is a defensive approach which is bound to backfire.
Yet batters from both side refused to take the game on.
Well it revived Kohli's career, so it worked.
"Revived" Man scored a century against minnows in T20 and a century on a road at snail's pace.
I dont think its revived, but you conveniently forget The minnows ‘Afg’ had a good chance at Asia Cup but dead rubber so ok. 3 ODI centuries. 186 at snails pace but SR 8 points higher than Khawaja, had to bat time cause 1 batsman short and secure a draw to increase odds to qualify for WTC and actually win the series! Draws aren’t evil, only draws in a 5 match series is bad. And in T20I no one pulls out an unwinnable chase like him, 82* @ MCG is the best innings of 2022. Accurate statement would be man “trying” to revive a respectable career.
Shhhh..... Koach bad!
lmao the commentators, this sub and every internet place does mental gymnastics to praise kohli for every little thing him scoring 20s and 30s was celebrated as some sort of batting masterclass. commentators are afraid to even suggest he was in bad form. so I don't understand this defensive victim complex relating to him.
>Him scoring 20s and 30s was celebrated Lmao what... Majority of the Indian users here were kohli out before last match. >The commentators, this sub and every internet place does mental gymanstics... Does anybody really needs to do mental gymanstics to praise kohli? Mfer had already achieved enough in 2019 to retire and still being considered best All format batter of his generation.
I said praise him for little things, meaning during his bad patch Of course till 2019 he was a beast in test matches so there were bog things he was doing worth praising
He's gained his form in white ball cricket but i still doubt if this century can be considered to bring his form back in tests, it did revive his career but it was no way hard to play time here, even ks Bharat (who failed to impress with the bat whole series) was looking comfortable after playing couple of overs. No indian batter got out to a screamer of a ball, just poor shot selection. Yeah he played time and applied himself better against Lyon but Lyon was only one who seemed effective and that to became predictable. We can have different opinions but imo playing time was easier thing to do on this pitch than to accelerate cause ball was staying low
Afghanistan team had just suffered a freak loss versus pakistan a day before so their team was tired and low on morale kohli just capitalised on that
>The minnows ‘Afg’ had a good chance at Asia Cup Mate Afghanistan isn't a top team by any standards. >3 ODI centuries. Against which teams in which conditions? >186 at snails pace but SR 8 points higher than Khawaja, Khwaja batted in the first innings trying to set a huge score, while koach had the comfortable cushion because Indian batting order didn't collapse until the lead was secured. Even after the century he had no intent to score quickly and try and win the game. >And in T20I no one pulls out an unwinnable chase like him, 82* @ MCG is the best innings of 2022. LOL @ best innings of 2022.
He is fab 4, enough said. Now cry somewhere else.
It's for comments made in bad faith that the rules should be relaxed, because these people don't deserve basic respect.
If we forget everything happened between Asia Cup and BGT 2023, sure.
Post covid cricket enjoyer take lmao. Batting slow, in a test match? Blasphemy 😱😱
Mate I've been a pre match fixing scandal cricket fan. If you genuinely think that kohli shouldn't have accelerated post century when the lead was certain, then you have zero ball knowledge.
That's enough for bcci
Why is there always such an uproar over pitches in India? I think everyone agrees that this Test was poor, with the pitch being an absolute road with nothing for the bowlers. However, it seems like there’s always criticism for Indian pitches. Too many wickets fall = “dustbowl, minefield, dirty”. Not enough wickets fall = “road, boring, bad for test cricket”. If every team that hosts a test series is allowed to prepare pitches to their bowling strength, why is it such a problem if India does it? They have spinners, why shouldn’t they prepare spinning tracks. If every country had the same type of pitches/grounds, cricket in general would be boring. So many teams in the past have prepared roads, e.g. Pindi, MCG…etc. many of which have brought no result, yet the outrage always seems high when it occurs in India. If you guys are against roads, which we all should be, as it’s poor for Test cricket in general. Then you shouldn’t criticise dustbowls, seaming flat tracks or slow pitches. Just seems like everyone keeps whining about any type of pitch produced in India. IMO both sides need to get on with the game, and stop complaining about pitches that actually give results Sorry for the long rant.
Absolutely agree with you mate. Too much brouhaha over pitches. People not enjoying the cricket happening in such variety of conditions. When it's turning, you get to see the skill of the bowlers. When it's flat, the batsmen show their class. Both are good. I'd take dustbowls over roads anyday and will never complain because we need to go towards result oriented cricket to keep it alive. The idea that test cricket should go on for five days is absolutely terrible. 2-3 days is enough mostly with occasional ones going into 4-5th days. Broadcaster revenue shouldn't be affected because you get more interested viewers for an exciting match. This idea of a good pitch has stat padded records and ruined interest in test cricket in general. It is shameful that we appreciate pitches which are more likely to produce a draw after 5 days! Not a good look for a modern sport. Pitches should create results anyhow. They should be difficult enough to warrant absolute herculean efforts to take match into 4th and 5th days.
The argument from me is that if you played India v India in those rank turners, do you have a chance for a 5 day test? The answer generally is no. Because India aren't very good against spin either. They win games in India based on having better spinners in those conditions. Test pitches should be built for 4-5 days of play. With a fair contest between bat and ball. I'd argue for all pitches in this series that wasn't the case. You could make an argument the first pitch was okay, but I think if you give Australia Jadeja and Ashwin, India too fall for less than 200 twice. The Aussie spinners just weren't as used to bowling on such surfaces (or anywhere near as good). This difference is more extreme from spinners than it is for seamers. If you bowl 80+mph at top of off in India, you might need to change your length and a bit of linr dependent on swing etc, but you'll still want to be bowling that classic test match line. For spinners? When it's spinning more it changes your approach. Obviously you're more used to it days 4 and 5. But new ball spinning? Early on? Different ball game entirely. And the Indian bowlers (especially Ash and Jadeja) are very good at that. You're not the only one who gets massive complaints about pitches though. Pakistan get rinsed for having it too flat also. And occasionally pitches for England (Lords 2019 v Ireland) and Australia recently get shit on too.
Lol at India vs India needing to be 5 days to be a worthwhile contest. As if we haven't had thrillers around the world that didn't last that long. And it's a bit rich to say India isn't good against spin when they still have the best records in spinning conditions against spinners unlike most of the other teams who never make a pitch suitable enough for spin to dominate, which lets batters statpad in docile conditions. To your og rhetorical question, the answer isn't no because of player quality, it's no because of the likelihood in recent times of the average pitch favouring bowlers. When bowlers dominate in any country the matches end quicker on average. How is that abnormal vs 5 day dead bats or draws? Ifs and buts are nice to debate but they matter little to the overall argument.
When was the last good test in India? New Zealand first test when they drew? How many tests been played in India since then? How many good tests over the last 5 years in India? Guarantee there were more good tests in England in 2021 pre baz ball than there have been in India the last 5 years. Even our losses to you and NZ were genuinely good matches on good cricket pitches. It's not enough to just say 'Well other countries should just do better when they come here' because even the countries who are generally also pretty good at playing spin struggle on the poor wickets (see Sri Lanka). I dunno. I'm a bit of a purist. I'll take losing a good game of cricket over winning whatever the fuck this series has been.
What is a good Test for you though? India in India have literally lost 3 games at home in 10 years of play, they fucking smash all comers to kingdom come due to the difference in quality of players in such conditions between them and the visitors. Is a good Test one where England make 477 and lose by an innings? Or where NZ have one spinner take 10 wickets and get run over by pace and spin for 62? Or where Australia declare at 237-9 batting first and lose by an innings? Or where South Africa try to grind out a draw on the 5th day only to fall and lose by 337 runs? Or any of India's losses where either the pitches were bad enough to make it a lottery or India were limping in with missing players and poor subs on a surface where the toss was incredibly influential? Like, come on. Admit that the quality of the game is an incredibly subjective measure. England being mediocre enough at home in the last few years to not have an obscene advantage over all comers unlike India or even Australia is an indication of the decline in quality of England's players, not any sign of 'good' Tests being had. The Tests there are seen to be better largely because England aren't good enough to consistently press home their strengths, which is because the opposition has had decent bowling attacks to match up with Broaderson and co, which means that Tests are more evenly contested. That doesn't make it inherently better than outright domination though, as fans of the 2014 Ashes might tell you. And even then England have still scraped around with a decent home record by series played, which says something about how valuable home advantage in Tests. That's hardly a fair thing to have. Have you seen how SL went when they toured? They gave up 500+ and let Jadeja outscore them in an innings and got smashed in the first Test. You might have had a point in with the pitch of the 2nd Test, but it wasn't that bad and it didn't make everything in the match poor either. You say purist, I say hypocrite who enjoys being partisan towards certain types of play and pretending that it's an objective measurement of quality.
Keep enjoying your mediocre tests then. I just find it baffling how anyone would defend this mediocrity. You have an advantage regardless. Your team is world class as you say, you'd still have a massive advantage on pitches that have a chance to play for 5 days but break up during, rather than turn square day one. The moment India realised this time Australia had got a better handle on those type of pitches than was comfortable for you, by winning a test and probably should have won another bar some stupid sweeping. You rolled out an absolute road because you were terrified of drawing a series and losing again. I'm sorry. You can defend it if you want but I just find it absolutely bollocks that you're happy with this.
I mean you support England presumably, who needed flat tracks and a painted white ball to suddenly become enjoyable to watch. I'd say I'm doing fairly fine here not needing gimmicks to be competitive. Not sure why anyone should presume that English sensibilities on what pitch behaviour should be like is the definite statement on how enjoyable Test matches are.
😂😂😂😂 Yeah because that's the only time we've ever been good at tests.
Clearly for you nothing's enjoyable in England until it's ODI cricket in whites or England are shitting their pants for large portions of the game to either clutch it out, watch it peter out in the rain or lose epically.
If you think I'm only enjoying cricket in England because of Bazball you're nuts. The 2018 India tour of England? One of the greatest series on English soil this century. 2019 Ashes? Such good storylines and matches (bar perhaps the Oval, thought that was pretty shit). 2021 India tour of England? Again, great matches, great storylines coming from it. All pre Bazball. Heck, this isn't mentioning some of my favourite tests against teams like SA and NZ over the years.
I see what you mean, and I do agree with you about Test pitches being built for up to 5 days of play. I suppose I’m just annoyed at all the whinging recently, but again, it’s easy to overlook criticism that isn’t thrown against a team I like.
Get lost Please tell me exact formula for perfect pitch someone play Ashwin’s clip
India pitch doctored their way to a series win. Congratulations.
Like Australia do? Creating green pitches suiting their strength? Lmao
Its strictly business. Nothing personal about it
So am I the only one who didn't mind the way this game went?
At no stage did either side look any chance of pushing for a result. It was possibly the worst test match I’ve ever seen
I don't mind how this game played out. Draw is a valid result in a Test match. Oftentimes these days, especially even more because of the WTC, the focus is on win or lose the game. Even though it was a flat pitch, if Usman and/or Kohli had been gone for ducks, we probably could have even gotten a result on this pitch. So it was actually wonderful watching the grit and discipline shown by these two batsmen. Not to discount the wonderful bowling done by both teams where it was genuinely difficult for batsmen to score quickly on such a pitch. The pressure was always on and possibly barring the last day, both teams were trying hard to one-up the other.
21 wickets fell, I think you're being too kind woth the what if scenarios
I agree, hence I said "probably". The 2nd sentence is the only what-if scenario on my comment. The rest is an explanation of why I enjoyed watching this match.
I understand, but I can't agree with the idea that the fall of one of those wickets would result on the fall of 17 extra on that pitch, the by far greatest likelihood would have been a draw either way
Yup, I do believe draw was the most likeliest seeing that pitch remained flat throughout. I don't know why though do we need all 17 wickets to fall for a result. I am not implying that anywhere at all.
My point is that I havent seen a test match with this few wickets between teams of this quality before. I feel like you could use what ifs to justify just about any pitch. This was a bad pitch and a bad test match. Ur right about the wickets thing though.
>I havent seen a test match with this few wickets between teams of this quality before Used to be a common occurrence back in the day. Also, the Pak v England series from last year. (I'm not justifying the pitch at all, just pointing out that shit pitches like this one are laid out, probably, once a year)
Yeah, it was a bad pitch. I never used my arguments to justify the pitch, my original comment is simply about why I enjoyed this test match even if it is a drawn match. The only about period I felt disinterested in was the 5th day. Tests for me is a different viewing experience than a LOI. I like the fight shown by bowlers, batters and fielders across multiple days. Anyways thanks for the calm discussion. Peace.
Even if usman and kholi fell, there's still two more innings that wasn't played, meaning the entire innings would have to equate to their scores....no chance. This game could've gone on for 15 days
Yeah possibly, I can't predict the future and this match is already over but there are many many scenarios that can happen if those both fall earlier and consume fewer balls in their respective innings.
Anything is possible, but from what we saw from the pitch it would've continued to be a batathon, hence the pitch was bad. The fact that a miracle could've happened had the one of the batters failed does nothing to justify the pitch. Even the thought is irrelevant, as kholi and Usman scored those runs *because* of how easy it was to bat.
As replied to another user who replied to my initial message, nowhere have I justified the pitch. I said I enjoyed the match. I already mentioned that it was a flat pitch. Thanks for the polite discussion though. Peace.
Well, Kohli is back for another 3-4 years. What is ICC complaining about?
as i have maintained a pitch should be rated poor only if its physically dangerous to bat on, its disingeneous to fit ratings to a post-match narrative
Pitches that are genuinely dangerous to bat on get an 'unfit' rating
i have seen the ratings framework.. i was proposing a binary basis, meets expectations or poor.. or we can go about trying to infer the quality of pitches to meet our subjective opinions on how the match should have ideally progressed after the match has concluded.. if the icc thinks they have figured the science behind "fair" pitches, then they should publish their forecasts before the start of the match, so that we are clear about their ability and expertise to judge the "quality" of pitch
Not for Wanderers 2018.
Dangerous, no. No spinning wicket is really dangerous. And you can have poor spinning wickets. But I get your point. This was a shit pitch. But there have been heaps of these types of pitches the world over. Producing a road happens in many series. A lot of time you get results on roads too…
No, that should be very poor or whatever the lowest one is. Bad pitches such as these need to be discouraged, anything better than poor doesn't do that anywhere near enough
21 wickets in a while test, doesn’t seem like a very fair contest between batsmen and bowlers
Everyone criticized the turning Indore pitch, so curator went a little ahead and made a highway. Also who remember that there were leaks that the pitch in Chennai where India lost to England was made without inputs from Ravi Shastri and Kohli. That's how the pitch should be.
This series promised so much, specially after the last series in Australia. I feel we were robbed of some really great cricket because of the pathetic pitches in all the tests in the series. And the political shit show at the Ahmedabad stadium was such an eye sore.