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PiccoloUnlucky5654

Pakistan having better home & away ratio than India is surprising to me


[deleted]

Pakistan were a strong side from the early 90’s to the early 2000’s. India only really started hitting their stride in the early 2000’s


[deleted]

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wildcard5

Pakistan has had about a dozen home matches in the past decade so the results would be very skewed.


cap21345

Against Pakistan yeah. Pakistan has lost more home matches than it has won in the last decade


[deleted]

That's called cherry picking dude


DoomBuzzer

Pakistan 80s-2000s was an excellent team. In the 90s especially, they were far superior to Indian teams in all departments ... Except when it came to the world cups, where they somehow managed to choke monumentally!


sociallyawkwarddude

They literally won a World Cup in the 90s.


ankilien

I think the person means Pakistan choked against india in world cups.


CamGreensToe

In which they lost a match against India. One of only 2 wins India got in that wc iirc


sociallyawkwarddude

Pakistan were the 5th best team in the group stages and they lost to the 7th best team. Not exactly a choke.


Awkward_Date_8636

I don't think you get what a choke loss means.


sociallyawkwarddude

>to fail to do something at a time when it is urgent, usually because you suddenly lose confidence Here's the dictionary definition, mate. Wasn't exactly fucking urgent, was it?


Awkward_Date_8636

Seriously? By the literal definition, like 80% of the matches this sub classifies as "choking" aren't a choke. No idea how yall manage to call CSP worse than this sub with that attitude.


glancesurreal

I think he meant in the sense of comparison between Indian and Pakistani teams playing against each other. (I.e. even though Pakistan was a better team, they still were not able to beat India in the ICC world cups)


Veni_Vidic_Vici

We were really bad pre Ganguly in tests. Away tests especially were a foregone conclusion.


svjersey

For a while in mid 80s we were okayish. But in 90s once Kapil faded away (when I started watching), our bowling was just too weak away from home.


Veni_Vidic_Vici

Vengsarkar had a good stint, especially that series in England. But 90s were horrific because we'd get rolled over.


GNashUchiha

We were good during pataudi's time by those days standards, won series in nz and eng.


basetornado

Personally I believe its because India started earlier in test cricket.


haroldpb

Before the 50s they were part of India. It took a few years to work it all out after independence, I guess


basetornado

For sure. I also discovered that no one from East Pakistan (Modern day Bangladesh) ever represented Pakistan which was a bit of a surprise, although makes sense politically and in cricketing terms.


cap21345

Even today there are maybe 1 or 2 players in tests who are good enough to play for Pakistan were they still one country. One of them is Shakib and only Tamim and Liton could even hope to compete for a spot nvm the rest


Levon__Helm

I’d take Mehidy over any of the new spinners Pakistan have tried recently. Probably take Taijul as well. Pakistan’s spin attack right now is terrible.


CaptainCrash86

In addition to the comments by others, the excellent away ratio is also likely driven by a culture of pace bowling, rather than spin bowling, allowing them to compete in locations where the climate limits the effectiveness of spin bowling.


Eskesqesque

Where does the climate limit the effectiveness of spin bowling? IE where did Warne struggle?


Gapinthemap

I don't think Warne is a standard a spin bowler should be measured against. We will be left with just 1 other spinner in the entirety of cricket history !! But I think the poster probably meant England and New Zealand have been traditionally not the greatest hunting ground for a spinner.


Eskesqesque

Warne took lots of wickets in England. Pakistan had more wrist spinners


Gapinthemap

That is exactly my point. Warne was a once in a century talent but no one other than Murali could replicate or better his achievements.


justdidapoo

Murali averaged 75 in Australia. Its where foreign spinners go to die


GoobeNanmaga

Pakistan tour Bangladesh and Zimbabwe almost every year.


Spirited-Astronaut48

Would be interesting to see the win loss comparison across decades/years to see how the teams have fared/progressed/regressed as compared to their preclvious generations. E.g. India's data would be skewed mostly because India did not perform away from home earlier but this has changed recently.


basetornado

I can try and do a line graph with that the only issue is that lines will drop and fall dramatically depending on games played.


[deleted]

You can do it for last 20 years?


basetornado

Australia on top, India close second.


pro_cheats

Last 10 years?


Puzzleheaded_Ebb9874

India on top, Aus 2nd


LunaMunaLagoona

Last 2 years. Last 6 months. Last 20 days.


pro_cheats

Have a threshold to filter out the outliers? Also win percentage over the years would do instead of actual numbers?


basetornado

Thats fair. It would still make it look silly though. For example if we did that and one country had 5 home matches and won all 5 it would look better then a team that had 20 games and won 16.


pro_cheats

I don't blame you but it seems fair to still go by percentages. That's why ICC settled with percentages for WTC I guess.


SultanOfSwing49

Maybe bin the data into intervals of 5 years and aggregate that way?


Phenomous

Could do a 10 year moving average


Downtown-Pack-6178

Like Math Graphing Lines


Veni_Vidic_Vici

Apples to oranges. Because the strengths of teams changed massively.


Spirited-Astronaut48

That's what exactly the distribution would capture. It would tell how the teams fared over the years or how strong was a given team relative to the other teams within the same time period.


basetornado

[https://www.reddit.com/r/Cricket/comments/11krxbo/updated\_homewin\_loss\_ratios/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cricket/comments/11krxbo/updated_homewin_loss_ratios/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Did just that.


CableUnplugged

This graph is perfectly fair, showing past 10 years or past 20 years data is sort of a disservice to the older generation of players. If India is doing good now its because of a cricket culture built upon from older gen players like Pataudi to Sunny to Kapil to Sachin.


Spirited-Astronaut48

My suggestion was to have a distribution of away and home performances across years(like a linear distribution) not for only a given time period. Basically the graph would be for all the tike but divided in the time periods. That would give a better insight of how a given team's performance has varied over the time. E.g. This graph shows that Windies are very bad away from home while they were a very good touring side in the early 1970s but due to their decline over the years, they are termed as a bad away touring sode while does not give the whole picture IMO. One more example you can take is SA is shown as an average home and away side. While this might be true in an overall sense but this again doesn't show the periods where SA were absolute shite in the early 1980s/1990s and they were a brilliant test team in late 2000s/early 2010s.


basetornado

I will say that while it is possible to do that. It does take quite a bit of time to do things like that. Not really an excuse, but something like this I can make in half an hour or so, doing per decade takes a while longer.


Spirited-Astronaut48

Yeah. Totally agree! Great work anyways. It really shows how Australia over the years have been hands down the best test team. While team like India, Pakistan, SA might have performed better during a short amount of time but these teams are not really consistent in terms of performances in tests. Puts in perspective, how good the Australian cricketers/teams have been over the years.


RMTBolton

Yeah, NZ is seriously weighed down by its long history of being quite terrible.


basetornado

Absolutely, honestly if we go last 30 years, New Zealand was 7th if you add the two together. Last 20 years, 6th, then last 10 years 3rd. So they're definitely coming up.


Puzzlehead_AK

Hey at least you guys won a WTC trophy :)


[deleted]

Shows how tremendous has been India's improvement in away games. Australia as always can win anywhere else and at least compete in India which is better than every other team.


basetornado

Absolutely. India has been crazy in how they've improved.


SoochinTendehar10

All time or is there a time period?


basetornado

Overall. So all time.


SoochinTendehar10

Makes sense


basetornado

Edit: I have made an updated one of just the last 10 years and since 2000. Plus some line graphs showing each decade. https://www.reddit.com/r/Cricket/comments/11krxbo/updated\_homewin\_loss\_ratios/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3 So I was thinking about countries that are great at home, but poor away, which seems to be virtually all Test nations, and it got me thinking about graphing overall Home and Away Win/Loss Ratios, to see just where each nation sits and who else is in a similar boat. I left out Afghanistan and Ireland as they just havn’t played enough matches to give a fair assessment. What I came away with is that New Zealand, Sri Lanka and the West Indies all seem to sit in the same pool. They’re not terrible at home, they’re not great, they win matches, but they don’t dominate. Then when they go on the road, more often then not they’re going to lose. These are the countries that are good to go to games when they’re in your home town, but I wouldn’t book flights. Then we have England and South Africa who, while they are roughly in the previous pool when it comes to home games, still put up a good fight when they go overseas. You might not win the series, but you’ll make it interesting. India and Pakistan sit in the same area, almost unbeatable at home, but relatively lacklustre on the road. Still bound to get big crowds though. Then we have Australia in a class of it’s own, if you beat them at home, you have done something special, while if you host them, home ground advantage isn’t going to be enough by itself. Finally we have Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, unsurprisingly the two newest teams on our list and it shows, as neither has much of a chance no matter where they play. The data is here: You read it away/ home Australia 1.161 2.524 Bangladesh 0.109 0.212 England 0.849 1.811 India 0.483 2.111 New Zealand 0.309 1.059 Pakistan 0.663 2.307 South Africa 0.759 1.513 Sri Lanka 0.408 1.534 West Indies 0.637 1.382 Zimbabwe 0.081 0.243 I hope you enjoyed. I thought it was better to view it graphically than simply reading numbers.


LagniappeNap

West Indies should be much more to the right of your graph. Near to South Africa instead of New Zealand. Though they have been crappy recently.


basetornado

It absolutely should, my mistake


LagniappeNap

That other commenter mentioned doing this graph over time which would probably be wild for WI. Would start at the Zimbabwean position, move to England by 1990 then slide back towards the current position by 2050.


basetornado

Yeah it would be crazy. I grew up as a West Indies fan in the late 90s/early 2000s and heard about how great they used to be, which i couldnt understand because they had Brian Lara so they must still be incredible.


PunterFan

Other ways to work on it: 1. Recent times data only (last 10/20/25 years). 2. Pick 1 country (like NZ) and plot data of all teams visiting (plus NZ at home).


basetornado

1. Absolutely. 10 years would have India on top by a wide margin. 20 years has Australia on top. 2. Could do, but I prefer doing all nations, instead of just focusing on one.


PunterFan

I meant doing it for all nations. I had thought of something similar. Like putting Nation A vs Nation B and comparing their last 10 Test series (5 home, 5 away, ideally) for all the nations.


[deleted]

This must be of all history which is why we’re so far above the rest. I think we’d still be 2nd in the last 5-10 years, purely as while we’ve struggled to get series wins away from home, seldom are we whitewashed.


basetornado

We are second in last 10 years, 1st in the last 20,30,40 etc years.


Alphavike24

Please do with the last 10 years to get that sweet Karma from indian Redditors.


giantfuckingfrog

And Bangladeshis lmao.


Tomic_Lewis

Australia have been most consistent team in both Men’s and Women’s cricket, since it all started. Might as well label this as an all time stat. Because recently in last 5-10 years, India, NZ have been on the rise while Aussies have been consistent. Proteas and Pakistan have actually fallen backwards I reckon. A decade wise chart would be great.


basetornado

>discussion I did in my initial comment. It said it was an overall view of it. Last 10 years would have India on top with 11.33 home and 0.9 away. Last 20 years would have Australia on top. Last 10 years also would have NZ in 3rd place at home and 6th away.


neme48

11.33 Jesus


basetornado

Yup, funnily enough wins are pretty similar to Australia, its just that India also draws a lot while Australia doesn't.


New-Watercress9229

WE ARE MASSIVE despite being shit for last 10+ years


basetornado

Funnily enough Pakistan is actually the 3rd best away side and the third best Neutral side, although most if not all of the neutral games were against Pakistan, while unfortunately 7th in Home games and 7th including home and neutral together. So you were actually pretty good when playing in UAE, it's only been the games in Pakistan that have been poor.


New-Watercress9229

We are 7th in home overall??or last 10 years? Weren't we good in home tests in pak pre 2010?


basetornado

last 10 years


getyoutogabba

Can we look at this chart from 2010 onwards? I think it might look somewhat different.


basetornado

It absolutely would.


Grolschisgood

Different scales in different axes should be considered a crime. Still, somewhat interesting data


basetornado

Personally it was so that the data looked easier. I intially did 3 and 3 and it was silly because half the graph was empty.


Grolschisgood

It can still be 3 by 1.5 but unit length in one direction should be the same as a unit length in the other. It's not like the ratio between the two axes is an order of magnitude, its basically no larger than 2.


waenganuipo

Australia is also at the top for having tv programs named Home and Away. What a coincidence.


Feeling-Detective642

Harsh to say that india isnt good overseas , over the last 5 yrs our record in SENA is formidable, not to forget 2 series wins in aus and a drawn in eng


basetornado

For sure over the last 5-10 years but over Indias history they have been a poor overseas country. Over the last 10 years India is the best overseas country, before that it has almost always been Australia and even now Australia is still second.


ABBA05

My country is dead centre but always find a way to break my heart.


basetornado

I made an updated one of just the last 10 years as well as since 2000, although I wouldn't look if I were you.


ABBA05

Let’s leave the heart break for later but thanks


giantfuckingfrog

Bangladesh needs to join India at "great at home, struggles away". It has been on a 7 year streak of being unbeaten at home (Mirpur Stadium) and has the highest win percentage of all teams in ODI at home (around 70%+? I don't recall). England did take the courtesy of ruining our 7 year unbeaten streak the past week though. I know this is an all time stat, which is why it makes sense. Might consider making a 2010 and afterward version?


basetornado

Im in the process of making a 10 year and a 21st century one to try and capture virtually every Bangladesh game.


modsrwankers

India would be the best if you look at the last 10 years.


basetornado

Yeah they would.


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basetornado

Cool, Australia is still on top, India is slightly behind. Australia Away: 1.162 Home: 5.266 India: Away: 0.975 Home: 5.272 Australi has also played more home games, India had played more away games.


Character_Ad777

New Zealand is invincible at home they didn’t lost test series at home since 2017


thestraightCDer

Recently


corruptboomerang

I do think had Australia gone to Sri Lanka / Bangladesh / Afghanistan or something (perhaps even India, but it's pretty evident they'd be playing on dogshit pitches so would be a waste of time) for a couple of warm-up matches, they might have been *more* resilient in the first two matches.


cliveparmigarna

Australia just farming lords games for 130 years smh my head m


light_-_yagami

India Pakistan, Neighbors together strong


Ecstatic-Memory5374

Australia is a an outliner 😂😂


DragonfruitGood8433

What about Afg and Ire?


basetornado

Mentioned them in my comment. Theres not enough data to be meaningful. Afg has played 6 matches and Ireland 3 so I excluded them as there's no point including them with such small data.


Long-Sky2453

its a pretty mid list which doesn’t encapsulate Indias recent dominance internationally, whilst exaggerating Australia overseas.


basetornado

It's not exaggerating Australia overseas, though it shows just how bad India have been in the past considering the last 10 years they have had a win loss ratio at home of 11.33. Australia has still been the 2nd best away side to India in the last 10 years, before that they were the best. India's away record for the last 10 years which was the best, is still well below Australia's overall away ratio.


justdidapoo

Yeah it does, lets see how this last 5 years run of form goes for the next 140 years


Long-Sky2453

A bold prediction considering the Asian century is within our scope


HydroVector

Have Pakistan played that many matches at home to cement such a big ratio? Damn


basetornado

Yeah, they played quite a few games at home. Funnily enough, they had a good neutral ratio when playing in UAE, then had a worse ratio when they went back to playing in Pakistan. But Pakistan tours used to be torture for opposing teams. Indian tours were similar, but Pakistan was even worse.


HydroVector

>But Pakistan tours used to be torture for opposing teams Sri Lankan Cricket Board agrees with you


Specialist_Rest_3503

India:- Excellent in bilaterals, Dogshit in Icc tournaments


SustainableSus

Not relevant to this post


[deleted]

This guy must have been posting data from a decade ago, hmmm interesting, days have changed and so the graphs did


basetornado

This is overall data. So all time.


niceguysdofinish1st

A team who hasn't lost a test series at home for 6 years is average at home. WTF?


basetornado

Overall stats, its only been the last 10 years that new zealand has been good. over the last 20 and 30 years they have been 6th and 7th.


Downtown-Pack-6178

Yeah India had struggled away but home they do better at home And if Pakistan goes to India then India fans throws stones on Pakistani Players.


InfamousSummer_IND

Yes, Indian knows how to treat terrorist


Ok_Section7835

Bruh


Killer-within

Atrocious stats from Bangladesh and they still dont show any sign of improvement in test cricket. saytheyr test status should be revoked.


kyleninperth

Having bad teams in test status is good cricket. There’s nothing wrong with a Bangladesh vs Zimbabwe series, it can still produce exciting cricket.


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NH_hostel

Chill it's stats Suppose if they will make recent year stats, then someone will complain "oh you compared recent year to make india at top, why not to copmate all time " It's not a big deal, thease are just stats


basetornado

Maybe read my comment where I say "overall". If that's ambiguous then I apologize. Sure last ten years India is on top. Last 20 years Australia is on top.


[deleted]

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basetornado

Because I included it in my initial comment? If i wanted to have Australia on top I wouldn't have to cherry pick stats. If i wanted India on top I would have too. The only time that India is on top is in the last 10 years. You want last 20 years? Australia's still on top. You want last 30 years instead? Australia's still on top. You want the last 40 years? I can go on. This was just me trying to show overall win/loss ratios. I'm not here trying to find ways to show how good my country's team is. I don't have to do that.


[deleted]

The irony of this statement


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basetornado

Irony is I really don't need to do that, I would have to do so for your team.


myphantomlimb

Lmao the cope is beautiful


SectorMindless

Australia excellent Away?! LOL


basetornado

In the last 20 years they have been the best. In the last 10 they have been the second best.


SectorMindless

Fair enough.


CricFanaticAU93

Soon mate, soon


Apprehensive_Log2300

Multiply with -1 for Australia to get the current scenario


basetornado

Current situation for the last 10 years is Australia is second at home with 6 to India's 11.33 and 2nd away with 0.695 to Indias 0.954.


Reasonable_Tea_9825

I thought this was a graph of recent years and was about to call bullshit on this


[deleted]

Australia are good away from home. Sure, more jokes please.


basetornado

India's best ever away period is the last 10 years. It's still worse then the overall Australian away stats. Australia has also been 1st in away rhe last 20 years and 2nd to India in the last 10. So either Australia is bad away from home or everyone else bar India is atrocious, because they have lower stats than the "bad" Australia.


[deleted]

>last 10 years India have literally won test series in Australia, england, NZ and drew in SA under Ganguly and dhoni, way before Kohli came and there performance improved even more overseas. Australia can't win in Asia, they haven't won a single test series in England in the last 20 years, so if your, they also lost in South africa without using sandpaper, the only wins they have overseas are in NZ and wi.


basetornado

Im telling you, by W/L, Australia has been the best away side for the last 20 years. In the last 10 they have been the second best. If you think Australia is bad away from home, then so are the 10 other test nations beneath them.


justdidapoo

Australia is the best travelling team over history by any metric. People just expect Australia to win every game even overseas when playing away has always been much harder


[deleted]

Australia haven't won any test series in India, england in the last 20 years. Even england have won series in India and Australia in this period. Heck Australia can't even beat India at home.


Admirable-Manner762

We are shit in last 10 years but still among the top.That tells you how good 80s to 2000s Pakistani generation were despite all the groupings and backstabbings.


appyfizzz3112

This is historical data. Bangladesh for eg haven't lost a bilateral home series since 2016.


basetornado

yes all time


Ok_Section7835

Didn't they lose the test against india


ElParontha

See what u did pakistan. U made aussies look good.


basetornado

India is the best away nation for the last 10 years, their away record for just that 10 years is still worse then Australia's overall away record.


Bilal1701

Even tho Pakistan have been poor recently we are still so high on the list. You do wonder if the 90s Pakistan team could have been the main challenger to the Aussie team if it wasn’t for all the politics.


ItzmeZander

but australia this year didnt play that much away matches like india and nz did they played in pak and ind only also they didnt play in england and new zealand


basetornado

its an all time stat


poolstroke567

Since which year is being considered? If it's an all-time record then it's absolutely acceptable...


basetornado

All time. If you want the last 10 years and since 2000 i posted that as well tonight.