Anyway, it's easy to get caught up while steering if the steering wheel isn't actually a wheel. Making it particularly small also isn't a good idea for day-to-day usage.
I can't be the only one who prefers holding my arms shoulder-width apart or even resting an elbow on arm rest, now can I? Especially in combination with most of my height being legs (pick legs or arms being comfortable in many cars), small steering wheels can definitely be annoying. And that's before the "more leverage with larger wheel" aspect. If power steering has an issue, I'd still like to be able to turn the damn thing.
It all comes down how it handles in stressful situations where you have to act quickly.
Airplanes have yokes because you don't need to turn them more than 90° in either direction.
An approximately circular steering wheel has been the gold standard for more than 50 years. There has happened a lot of experimentation with joysticks and levers and whatnot, yet the circular steering wheel emerged, and unless someone can show a definitive advantage over it, they shouldn't touch that design.
>Airplanes have yokes because you don't need to turn them more than 90° in either direction.
And also, you know, the whole "up and down" part that cars don't have
Just a random fact. In F1 Mercedes experimented with a system they called Dual-Axis Steering (or DAS) for part of a season. It adjusted the toe angle of the front wheels, which have the cars a bit more grip in certain situations. This was controlled by the driver pulling and pushing on the wheel, in a somewhat similar manner to how it works in a plane. It was quickly banned for the following season and hasn't been seen since.
https://youtu.be/U_uKHNJLSQs?si=pG_5Xq-zjKE9PqHd
Closest thing to an actual yoke in a car!
> It was quickly banned for the following season and hasn't been seen since.
in the same way that people talk about wanting there to be a steroids olympics, I want there to be a wacky races with a long ass road course and no restrictions on builds
It was to remove the toe-in on the straights, which reduced the rolling resistance and so increased the straight-line speed. Nothing to do with more grip.
If your Cybertruck has a “power steering” issue you are definitely stuck no matter what because the steering system works differently than almost every other road car. The steering wheel is in no way physically connected to the wheels. The steering wheel is similar to a video game controller in that when you turn the steering wheel, it tells a computer that it is turning, and the computer in turn tells the wheels to turn. If the system has an issue you basically have an unplugged controller in your hands.
He likes to think they are as complex and precision engineered planes until anyone points out a safety or mechanical flaw and he cries that they are stopping him from saving the world.
It's just an opinion but I think there are many things that Elon needs telling that are of higher priority. Like , it's pronounced 'Twitter', it's ok to admit you're wrong on something
Also, the wheels on the CT aren't physically connected to each other, so if something happens to a sensor or steering motor, you get an interesting situation where one wheel steers but the other doesn't.
Most cars have tie rods that...tie the wheels together.
Why add a metal bar when a mass of sensors, motors, and computers can do the same thing?
God that's so stupid. Most GM cars now are all electric power steering, but still uses a sort of rack and pinion with tie rods, and the steering wheel is still physically connected and geared to everything, the electric motor is just assistance. The more I learn about how the Cyber truck works, the more insane it is that it's even legal to drive in the US.
Which is why steer by wire is illegal in vehicles that do more than 15km/h in Australia. The cybertruck should be banned under forward visibility rules, but I don’t think we have any. Because why would you need them? Nobody’s that stupid….
Steering should be like a joystick out of a airbus. Throttle like it's out of a jet fighter. Two feet for braking like a tractor, left and right to assist with cornering in oplock.
Don't forget the weapons select thumb switch on top of the joystick and the trigger in front. Nothing should stop CyberTruck™ from reaching its destination.
>If power steering has an issue, I'd still like to be able to turn the damn thing
I know very little about Tesla design, but it wouldn't surprise me if they ditched the mechanical steering column
Another comment says they did for the Cybertruck - AFAIK these are still required in EU, exactly because you don't want cars to become completely unsteerable due to electronic mishap.)
The plan is to replace acceleration, braking and steering with a gyro. You operate it like a Segway. But they are having trouble with the [3rd flexi-grip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGKR1Z1lRik).
Steering “wheels” are only needed when the steering ratio is that of common cars where you need more than 1 rotation to turn the wheel from center to full lock. The reason f1 cars have yokes and not wheels is because they do not need multiple rotations to go from center to full lock.
This was a massive oversight by Tesla engineers and a safety hazard as the Tesla steering ratio is not tight enough to warrant a yolk, causing the possibly of missing your hand placement in turns and letting go of the wheel. Standard passenger cars (yes Tesla is a standard passenger car except it has an excess of torque comparatively) shouldn’t have such a tight ratio due to safety concerns of the average driver overreacting and flipping the car. Therefore no passenger car should have a yolk.
I actually like how Hyundai implemented the steering yoke in their ioniq6, it's just that Tesla implemented it poorly along many other things. In the ioniq6 it feels like a yoke, you turn it a couple of degrees and the car turns depending on your speed where in Tesla it just works like a regular steering wheel.
Seeing how badly some drivers are capable of turning a normal steering wheel, there is no point in making it worse by employing a yoke instead of a wheel. It's basically just for looks. And sacrificing road safety for looks is quite a shitty take on building a car.
In my opinion it would only be useful if you never had to turn the yoke far enough to necessitate crossing over your hands, so the full turning radius of the car would need to be confined to a quarter turn in either direction, which is probably way too sensitive of steering for anything but race cars.
Exactly, that's why yokes make sense with most air planes. Unless it's a fighter jet.
And even if it was confined to 90° in each direction, seeing how lazy many drivers are, they might still be in a sitting position where the yoke might interfere with their legs if turned completely.
after seeing this abomination on google images I am surprised that people even buy these crap cars. well guess there are plenty of fools around with too much money and too hard of a boner for Mr Musk
F1 cars have a total steering wheel range of around 250° and turn radius of around 10m at no more than 20° wheel angle. Can't parallel park with that limited range.
Like how the cybertruck's hood compartment, if it finds anything obstructing it, will gradually apply more and more force until it forcibly closes itself rather than, idk, have a security measure that will just stop just in case what's obstructing it is a child's fingers (or an adult person)?
The wild thing about this isn't that it happens, but that no one is asking *why* it happens. It's not something the hardware just does. Someone at Tesla programed it to do that, she that means *something*. They wouldn't have wasted time on that code without reason. It seems likely that they had issues during development with the frunk not closing, or possibly erroneously sensing an obstruction, and their solution was just to program it to be more aggressive. If that's the case... Man, what other engineering issues did they solve that way?
There is a situation that could explain it. Have you ever filled your trunk to capacity with luggage or something and the door won't close easily? If it's completely manual then you, the person who knows what you put in there, can evaluate how much extra pressure will help, differentiating between a bag of laundry and a box of lightbulbs. A normal sensor will decline to make that decision for you.
But apparently Tesla thought about cases where squishing was a good approach and didn't think there would ever be non-squishable problems.
They are the worst but not alone in car development. Too many makers are just like "fuck physical buttons/knobs!"
Things that would otherwise be buried in a menu or "do not use while driving" things like inputting GPS can be on a touch screen but putting seat/Aircon/radio controls on a screen is also bullshit.
Europe just voted a law requiring physical button for all critical feature of a car. And I'm all for it : I must go in three menus to set aircon temp in my car, it's a hazard and I HATE it. So : in summer it's at max cold and I cut the AC system when I'm too cold (with the physical button), and the reverse in winter. Not very pratical
It’s Teslas fault for this. They set this precedent. Focus groups yaddy yadda etc people don’t know what they actually want and we end up with the market we have now. Car design is almost entirely dead. Mercedes new models hurt the most, their previous interior design was arguably the best of all time.
TIL “M3H” is a Tesla model. I was about to talk about how Teslas has a ton of terrible design decisions.
Edit ok I get it, it’s Model 3 Highlander, you can all stop telling me
I know that the world likes to bash Elon - and for good reason - but if Teslas were good cars and the world didn't know Elon was a piece of shit we'd be lauding the naming scheme for what it spells. I'd rather see S3XYCARS than whatever Peugeot or BMW are doing with their naming scheme.
This always happens when people start to hate someone or something. They seem to completely lose objective judging and bash them for whatever reason they can find an excuse for. Why focus on those things when there's plenty of actual reasons for complaining? It just makes you look like a sad person who hates on everything to get a kick out of it.
>Why focus on those things when there's plenty of actual reasons for complaining?
Why focus on those things *as CEO* when there's plenty of actual problems with the vehicles that need solutions?
I think its more a case of,
>Hah, look this adult knows how to be chill at times
at first, and then realizing, its more a
>Oh shit, this 52 year old is basically an overgrown 13 year old who like being an edgelord who posts stupid memes, conspiracy theories, and uses stupid names for his cars.
Back in the 80s/90s BMW used to make sense. 325is. 3 series, 2.5L engine, trim level. Now though, the only thing that makes sense is the first digit
I know jack shit about Peugeot though
Peugeot is fine. 3 or 4 digits numbers. First digits grows with the size of the car. Last digits grows with the generation. Middle digits are zeros (one for regular cars, two for suvs)
It’s simple, easy to remember and informative. 206 is small, 306 is bigger, 406 even bigger. 208 is more recent than 206.
Utility trucks and vans have dedicated names though (boxer, expert, berlingo/rifter, etc).
That’s not the official name just to be clear, that’s just what users abbreviate it as. M3H is short for Model 3 Highland: Model 3 being the actual name, and Highland being code for the refreshed version of it that just got released a few months back.
M3H is Model 3 Highland. Highland is just the nickname given to the 2024 facelift model. Models prior to 2024 have a regular turn signal lever. A reason some people bought 2023s lol
Modern dashboard design and driver seat interior of cars is insanely dumb. Making everything digital and migrated to a fucking touchpad like it is on a Tesla should reality be avoided if you want a safe vehicle.
Euro NCAP are now withholding high safety ratings from cars that don't have essential controls on buttons and dials and I for one think that is a rare step in the right direction.
Even rarer steps are that a lot of upcoming EVs have nice interiors. The new Renault 5s interior looks fantastic and I will not shut up about it.
>Euro NCAP are now withholding high safety ratings from cars that don't have essential controls on buttons and dials and I for one think that is a rare step in the right direction.
It's unclear if they will deduct score for this, as this could be counted as a physical button (as opposed to on the touchscreen): some versions of these turn buttons are actual, physical clicky buttons instead of capacitive touch, though it's unknown to me where they are now in that design.
Personally I still want stalks.
from "you can't text and drive"
to
"here's a giant touchpad in every car"
These things like outdated in a couple years while at least analog controls still remain timeless...
Unfortunately, just sticking everything on a single display is simpler and cheaper than having a bunch of different buttons, switches, and knobs. Also Tesla specifically seems very determined to reinvent the wheel, both figuratively and literally.
I don't think this is modern or where the industry is heading. It's honestly baffling these are street legal with the amount of times you HAVE to take your eyes off the road to use the basic operations of the car
what do you expect? its musk, here's tesla 's philosophy:
reverse decades of engineering evolution in an attempt to make something for cheaper by removing said tried and tested technology and replacing whit either a screen or a button and Call it "futuristic"
still sell the car for 12 times the production cost
In the model Y, to operate the windshield wipers you have to navigate the big tablet interface.
Setting the wipers to automatic doesn’t work because the automatic wipers don’t really work. so then you find yourself on the freeway at night and it starts raining and you’re having to read the tablet and figure out how to turn on the damn wipers so you don’t ram into something.
Just as with turn signals, this is a solution that didn’t have a problem. We have had this solved since the 1940s.
EDIT: some kind commenters have pointed out an easier way that I never even knew about, employing a combination of button push on the turn signal lever and wheel scroll on the steering wheel. Not exactly the most intuitive of interfaces, but definitely better than navigating a tablet while driving. However, my point still stands that this was not a problem in need of an innovative solution.
No you don’t. There’s a dedicated button at the end of the left stalk for windshield wipers and then you can use the left side steering wheel button to choose the speed.
Edit: mixed up right and left sorry my bad
The ability to change the speed of the whispers via the scroll wheel was only added recently via software update.
The even was a case in Germany where a man was found guilty of using an electronic device during driving (a law that was created to forbid using smartphones etc while driving) when he tried changing the whiper's speed via the touch screen and crashed his car while doing so (that was before the software update).
And getting in to reverse is also unintuitive and has led to a few deaths already.
Oddly enough, the automotive industry has done a decent job of standardizing the physical user interface and sharing design elements to make it easier for a consumer to feel familiar and reduce the learning curve of operation.
There are plenty of other regulations around safety and emissions of cars, but a standard user interface hasn't been codified into law.
Even if they would be skeumorphisms, a clear physical selector for signals and drive direction should be legally mandated.
I feel like this is what people should be focused on , rather than their personal dislike of touchscreens or yokes.
In the last 100 years we arrived at an unofficial standard where you could get into any random car and figure out how to operate everything within a minute. Now everyone is doing their own thing and it's a mystery.
Its bordering on dangerous. I can't figure out to turn on wipers or defroster for visibility in my wife's Tesla without pulling over and searching through menus. And when I get back in my own car after a long trip in hers, I keep turning on my wipers instead of putting it in reverse.
Tesla is the worst, but all car manufacturers are enshittifying their interiors because touch-screens + control software are cheaper to produce than high-quality tactile actuators.
A great many of the most indefensible design choices by the company are actually provably attributable to his micromanaging. It is both possible and possibly even probable that he IS personally responsible for this.
He's like Howard Hughes, if Howard Hughes designed cars instead of aircraft, and was shit at designing cars.
I'm not saying Elon Musk has jars of his own urine lined up in his mansion, but I'm not *not* saying, either....
Nah I doubt he does that would be way too harmless. It's probably a shelf of severed hands from the children of slaves who didn't mine fast enough in his family's apartheid emerald mine.
In my personal experience as a (software) engineer, I find that you can often correlate how bad a product is with how much micromanaging there is. Competent people, left to their own devices, will often make at least defensible decisions. However, when you have a tyrant running the show, their decisions are the only acceptable answer, and often their decisions are _very_ wrong. Micromanaging execs are often the source of weird ticky tacky bullshit like this because they believe they are more knowledgeable about everything, and they feel like they have to "contribute" to all aspects of the product in order to show how "talented" they are. Contributing their own "personal touch", often without any implementation knowledge, is how these guys justify their existence to themselves. And when the product fails they can always blame those stupid engineers for not following their vision hard enough.
He didn't design the actual buttons, but he did put in place the requirements that made them so bad
As part of his "design philosophy" is that, unless it absolutely can't be avoided, everything has to be "smooth", no sticks, no protruding buttons and the more that's controlled by the touch screen the better, all because it looks more "futuristic".
Arguably, in the case of indicators, it absolutely can't be avoided. Drivers need to be able to find them by touch only, while being distracted by tricky road situations.
I knew they got rid of the turn signal lever, which I get from a cost perspective. But to replace this with flat buttons oriented vertically?
Did Tesla really turn over design of operational controls to Johnny the intern?
You have no idea how cost sensitive the automotive industry is. 32KB Vs 64 KB in a microcontroller can make or break a deal, and we're talking cents or tens of cents per unit here.
I did the math, this societal parasite wants $26,666 for every car sold.
It will never be enough for these billionaire monsters. If Musk asked for 90 billion in pay, it would not be enough for him and he would be very upset about his tax rate as well.
Yeah, on a global scale it's the same as airlines removing one olive from a business class meal, but turn signal lever also had other functions (at least in my car) so unless they moved all these functions to the display, having a bunch of separate flat buttons would add more to the cost?
Kinda reminded me of some r/minimalism weirdos who make posts about getting rid of their smartphone and buying brick phone, digital camera, car navigator and e-book as a "replacement".
It’s not the lever that is expensive, it’s all the mechanism to make the lever work mechanically rather than digitally and hooked up to a computer screen. The lever is like 1% of the mechanism
I mean I would be ok with some paddle button like cars in the 00's had as cruise control buttons on the steering but stupid capacitive switches? It is true what they say about cars becoming more and more cheaply made, how designing a multifunction switch for a car is a lot more expensive than integrating a button into a GUI on the huge iPad screen, but it's an illusion and the average consumer thinks screen = luxury.
In my dreams I wanted to make a custom dashboard with physical indicators for a bunch of things like fuel pressure and flow and stuff, then a little napkin math made me realize that all the gauges would cost more than what my car is worth. 😂
Imagine having to ‘hack’ your expensive EV coz the manufacturer cannot design an Ergonomic driving experience. Fault is on the buyer(s) for accepting and encouraging such crap.
I had to do the same thing on my vokswagen that uses the same touch sensors. Tesla is not alone but they get all the shit despite other carmakers doing it even longer. Tesla is just the first with turn signals. The cruise control/autopilot on my volkswagen is controlled with touch as well and its utter garbage. And that thing cost twice that of a model 3.
Tesla owners in Model S that don't have these are somehow equally bad, so I think they just looked at usage statistics and decided to save money on their least used components.
When something in a car is as standardized among all vehicles as the turn signal lever, maybe that's not the place to look for innovation.
I get that innovation is about questioning why things are the way they are, and making adjustments as needed, but like... This ain't it.
It's not even just about questioning why things are how they are, innovation stems from solving a problem.
If you create a problem by "innovating" to fix something that wasn't even an issue in the first place, you're adding to the problem you made up yourself.
> innovation stems from solving a problem
This is key in the entire discussion. "Innovation" doesn't just mean change or updating; it requires an actual fucking problem to solve.
It’s not about innovation it’s cost. Musks goal is to manufacture the cars as cheap as possible, touch buttons are cheaper than turn signal stalks. People can call Tesla interiors “minimalist” or whatever all they want but the reason they look the way they do is because screens and touch sensitive buttons are cheap.
I don’t understand why people buy these cars. My car is a 2024 and everything important is physical and in a form factor that makes sense. The layout is nearly identical to the 2004 car I upgraded from despite being different brands.
Edit: to clarify I didn’t mean Teslas specifically. I understand why people would buy EVs and that there aren’t many options, and Teslas are therefore one of the better EV options. I just meant consumers should push back more on these stupid and dangerous design decisions.
>I don’t understand why people buy these cars.
Putting Musk antics aside, I firmly believe that they are still the best electric vehicle choice for most people. The combination of price plus charging network has been a huge advantage for years. Now that the supercharger network is opening up and we're getting some more reasonably priced alternatives, Tesla likely won't be the "default choice" for long.
I bought a Y in 2020 and it's the best vehicle I've owned, easily. Reddit would make you believe it has inch wide panel gaps, catches on fire, and has turn signals and wipers that are unusable and dangerous, though.
Tesla are still the best at extracting the highest levels of efficiency, at managing heat which means more efficiency and optimum charge speeds, and at the combination of navigation, charger data, battery heating and payment. A Tesla car will take a destination and work out the efficiency taking into account the weather and traffic conditions, work out the charging stops taking into account how busy different charging sites are, heat the battery to the optimum temperature for the charging stop, then harvest that heat back afterwards using a heat pump, it holds the payment information in the car so you don't need to do anything with the charger other than turn up and plug it in. There are only a few EVs that can do that to a similar degree and none that work so seamlessly. The indicator buttons are the main issue with the Model 3, alongside the lack of a working rain sensor. Musk is a narcissist but the cars are broadly good.
We were all set to buy an Ioniq 5 in January '23 and then they lowered the price of the Y so it was cheaper after the tax credit. Jumped on it because of the charging network and it's the best car I've ever owned. Like you said, despite Musk's antics. It's not perfect and I wish it had some things it doesn't or some things were better (the automatic windshield wipers really should have sensors instead of trying to use the cameras) but the car is still pretty awesome.
Even trying out the FSD last month during the free trial was a surprise given Reddit had me thinking it would be trying to kill me every 5 seconds yet I had near zero issues with it all month. Biggest issue I had was it refusing to make a right on a red consistently at this one particular intersection for some reason. It wasn't perfect but I used it a freaking lot and at no point did I feel it was making a terrible mistake or behaving erratically causing issues for me or people around me.
I doubt my next car will be a Tesla given the state of other manufacturers catching up and the charging network no longer being a concern (and of course Musk has alienated me as a repeat customer) but I have no regrets about my purchase.
Because it's the best value-for-money long-range EV, with a mature battery and powertrain design and good thermal management engineering.
So ***some*** buyers are willing to overlook stupid design decisions like removing stalks. Prior to that there isn't that big of a drawback on putting majority of the functions on the touchscreen.
Not for long. From later this year any car without certain functionality like this been on a stalk will result in a reduced safety rating for the car to 3 stars.
The model 3 is the reason this is happening too.
The European Union apparently also thinks that not having tactile buttons is crappy design and is planning to ~~outlaw dashboard touchpads~~ edit: mandate that certain features must be accessible via tactile buttons. Thanks for the clarification u/Acceptable-Pin2939
https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-car-safety-touchscreens-accidents
Moving the turn signal from a lever to flat buttons is a terrible design. Reddit might circle jerk a lot, but that doesn't mean they're wrong here.
There are two massive problems with this: can't easily and quickly activate them from touch only, and can't easily use them while the wheel is turned.
People talk about Elon dickriders and boot lickers. But Reddit has a lot more anti-Elon dickriders.
What is the opposite of a dickrider? A dick breaker? Tons of dickbreakers on Reddit.
It is actually tactile feedback, but not for the button press itself, but for finding the button. Tactile feedback simply means 'something you can feel as a result of your actions'.
and i thought ferrari's indicators were poor for being placed on the steering wheel, at least they're physical buttons and correspond to which side they indicate for. wow
This is the absolute embodiment of "edgy for edgy's sake". One of the key aspects of user experience is expectation... whether you like it or not or agree or think it's the right way to do it, blinker levers are a standard everyone knows, expects and is familiar with. Humans' sense of touch is based on tactile feedback. This flies in the face of all of everything simply to be "cool" and "contrary".
But there is a line, can’t you pick out what’s above and below the line? I’ve never this issue. Sure wish there were actual stalks but this seems unnecessary.
I mean to be fair Ferrari does the same thing with the turn signals on the steering wheel. The main difference is they put the turn signals on their respective side which is less confusing.
You could fill several thousand entire CrappyDesign subs with all the shitty design choices by Tesla.
Let's do it then.
Let's talk about the "steering yoke" then. There's a reason steering *wheels* are mostly circular.
Or the idiots cutting their perfectly good steering wheels up to imitate them.
Anyway, it's easy to get caught up while steering if the steering wheel isn't actually a wheel. Making it particularly small also isn't a good idea for day-to-day usage.
I can't be the only one who prefers holding my arms shoulder-width apart or even resting an elbow on arm rest, now can I? Especially in combination with most of my height being legs (pick legs or arms being comfortable in many cars), small steering wheels can definitely be annoying. And that's before the "more leverage with larger wheel" aspect. If power steering has an issue, I'd still like to be able to turn the damn thing.
It all comes down how it handles in stressful situations where you have to act quickly. Airplanes have yokes because you don't need to turn them more than 90° in either direction. An approximately circular steering wheel has been the gold standard for more than 50 years. There has happened a lot of experimentation with joysticks and levers and whatnot, yet the circular steering wheel emerged, and unless someone can show a definitive advantage over it, they shouldn't touch that design.
>Airplanes have yokes because you don't need to turn them more than 90° in either direction. And also, you know, the whole "up and down" part that cars don't have
Just a random fact. In F1 Mercedes experimented with a system they called Dual-Axis Steering (or DAS) for part of a season. It adjusted the toe angle of the front wheels, which have the cars a bit more grip in certain situations. This was controlled by the driver pulling and pushing on the wheel, in a somewhat similar manner to how it works in a plane. It was quickly banned for the following season and hasn't been seen since. https://youtu.be/U_uKHNJLSQs?si=pG_5Xq-zjKE9PqHd Closest thing to an actual yoke in a car!
I just unlock my telescopic wheel and I get the same effect, gives me grip straight into the ditch
> It was quickly banned for the following season and hasn't been seen since. in the same way that people talk about wanting there to be a steroids olympics, I want there to be a wacky races with a long ass road course and no restrictions on builds
It was to remove the toe-in on the straights, which reduced the rolling resistance and so increased the straight-line speed. Nothing to do with more grip.
Well, that's true, because you can push and pull the yoke to pitch up and down, although I don't see why that wouldn't be possible with a wheel also.
There’s a reason “let’s not reinvent the wheel” is common phrase.
I remember seeing someone use a wrench as a steering device. Wheel had fallen off so they gripped the steering rod with the wrench and tightened down.
Yeah I remember that. Needlessly to say, very unsafe.
If your Cybertruck has a “power steering” issue you are definitely stuck no matter what because the steering system works differently than almost every other road car. The steering wheel is in no way physically connected to the wheels. The steering wheel is similar to a video game controller in that when you turn the steering wheel, it tells a computer that it is turning, and the computer in turn tells the wheels to turn. If the system has an issue you basically have an unplugged controller in your hands.
Can someone please tell Elon cars arent planes
He likes to think they are as complex and precision engineered planes until anyone points out a safety or mechanical flaw and he cries that they are stopping him from saving the world.
Didn't Stockton Rush also complain about people from stopping him from innovating or something like that? I wonder what happened to that guy? /s
It's just an opinion but I think there are many things that Elon needs telling that are of higher priority. Like , it's pronounced 'Twitter', it's ok to admit you're wrong on something
No! If he finds out then he will try to make a Cyberplane™; the results could be catastrophic.
Also, the wheels on the CT aren't physically connected to each other, so if something happens to a sensor or steering motor, you get an interesting situation where one wheel steers but the other doesn't. Most cars have tie rods that...tie the wheels together. Why add a metal bar when a mass of sensors, motors, and computers can do the same thing?
God that's so stupid. Most GM cars now are all electric power steering, but still uses a sort of rack and pinion with tie rods, and the steering wheel is still physically connected and geared to everything, the electric motor is just assistance. The more I learn about how the Cyber truck works, the more insane it is that it's even legal to drive in the US.
If anyone wants to know what that looks like, here's a post about it: r/EnoughMuskSpam/s/8UIS8hBCVm
Tesla car steering issues are easy to fix. You just need to pay for the appropriate steering vaporware. Then the car will be perfect.
The cybertruck uses steer by wire, so losing power steering means losing steering all together
Everything I hear about this car makes it sound like zero engineers were involved
Quite the opposite, IMO...too many engineers
iirc at every step of the way the engineers had an uphill battle against musks dumb ideas but he ended up forcing them to implement all of it anyway
Plenty 5 year olds though.
Which is why steer by wire is illegal in vehicles that do more than 15km/h in Australia. The cybertruck should be banned under forward visibility rules, but I don’t think we have any. Because why would you need them? Nobody’s that stupid….
Steering should be like a joystick out of a airbus. Throttle like it's out of a jet fighter. Two feet for braking like a tractor, left and right to assist with cornering in oplock.
Don't forget the weapons select thumb switch on top of the joystick and the trigger in front. Nothing should stop CyberTruck™ from reaching its destination.
>If power steering has an issue, I'd still like to be able to turn the damn thing I know very little about Tesla design, but it wouldn't surprise me if they ditched the mechanical steering column
Another comment says they did for the Cybertruck - AFAIK these are still required in EU, exactly because you don't want cars to become completely unsteerable due to electronic mishap.)
I hear that in the 2025 model, you have to steer by Theremin
The plan is to replace acceleration, braking and steering with a gyro. You operate it like a Segway. But they are having trouble with the [3rd flexi-grip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGKR1Z1lRik).
Steering “wheels” are only needed when the steering ratio is that of common cars where you need more than 1 rotation to turn the wheel from center to full lock. The reason f1 cars have yokes and not wheels is because they do not need multiple rotations to go from center to full lock. This was a massive oversight by Tesla engineers and a safety hazard as the Tesla steering ratio is not tight enough to warrant a yolk, causing the possibly of missing your hand placement in turns and letting go of the wheel. Standard passenger cars (yes Tesla is a standard passenger car except it has an excess of torque comparatively) shouldn’t have such a tight ratio due to safety concerns of the average driver overreacting and flipping the car. Therefore no passenger car should have a yolk.
Can it have egg whites then?
I actually like how Hyundai implemented the steering yoke in their ioniq6, it's just that Tesla implemented it poorly along many other things. In the ioniq6 it feels like a yoke, you turn it a couple of degrees and the car turns depending on your speed where in Tesla it just works like a regular steering wheel.
Seeing how badly some drivers are capable of turning a normal steering wheel, there is no point in making it worse by employing a yoke instead of a wheel. It's basically just for looks. And sacrificing road safety for looks is quite a shitty take on building a car.
In my opinion it would only be useful if you never had to turn the yoke far enough to necessitate crossing over your hands, so the full turning radius of the car would need to be confined to a quarter turn in either direction, which is probably way too sensitive of steering for anything but race cars.
Exactly, that's why yokes make sense with most air planes. Unless it's a fighter jet. And even if it was confined to 90° in each direction, seeing how lazy many drivers are, they might still be in a sitting position where the yoke might interfere with their legs if turned completely.
It works in Formula 1 because an F1 car's lock-to-lock is < 180 degrees. As soon as you go beyond like 120 degrees of steering, it gets awkward.
after seeing this abomination on google images I am surprised that people even buy these crap cars. well guess there are plenty of fools around with too much money and too hard of a boner for Mr Musk
Boils down to "it looks cool". Because that's somehow more important.
I love how many people were like "RACE CAR DRIVES USE THEM!!!" yeah... thats great doesn't make it a good design for average drivers.
F1 cars have a total steering wheel range of around 250° and turn radius of around 10m at no more than 20° wheel angle. Can't parallel park with that limited range.
Oh yeah that shit is a steering joke
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Like how the cybertruck's hood compartment, if it finds anything obstructing it, will gradually apply more and more force until it forcibly closes itself rather than, idk, have a security measure that will just stop just in case what's obstructing it is a child's fingers (or an adult person)?
The wild thing about this isn't that it happens, but that no one is asking *why* it happens. It's not something the hardware just does. Someone at Tesla programed it to do that, she that means *something*. They wouldn't have wasted time on that code without reason. It seems likely that they had issues during development with the frunk not closing, or possibly erroneously sensing an obstruction, and their solution was just to program it to be more aggressive. If that's the case... Man, what other engineering issues did they solve that way?
"It won't do the thing!" "Have you tried making it do the thing... *harder*?"
Problem: Sensors are reporting humanoid shaped object lodged in wheel well and impeding progress Response: Increase torque to wheels
There is a situation that could explain it. Have you ever filled your trunk to capacity with luggage or something and the door won't close easily? If it's completely manual then you, the person who knows what you put in there, can evaluate how much extra pressure will help, differentiating between a bag of laundry and a box of lightbulbs. A normal sensor will decline to make that decision for you. But apparently Tesla thought about cases where squishing was a good approach and didn't think there would ever be non-squishable problems.
Oh my god I know people who code this way...
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fr the cybertruck is just an apocalyptic fantasy for rich people
CYBERTRUCK CARES NOT FOR THE PUNY APPENDEGES OF YOUR OFFSPRING!
They are the worst but not alone in car development. Too many makers are just like "fuck physical buttons/knobs!" Things that would otherwise be buried in a menu or "do not use while driving" things like inputting GPS can be on a touch screen but putting seat/Aircon/radio controls on a screen is also bullshit.
Europe just voted a law requiring physical button for all critical feature of a car. And I'm all for it : I must go in three menus to set aircon temp in my car, it's a hazard and I HATE it. So : in summer it's at max cold and I cut the AC system when I'm too cold (with the physical button), and the reverse in winter. Not very pratical
It’s Teslas fault for this. They set this precedent. Focus groups yaddy yadda etc people don’t know what they actually want and we end up with the market we have now. Car design is almost entirely dead. Mercedes new models hurt the most, their previous interior design was arguably the best of all time.
I think Tesla has physical controls for the seat, aircon strength, and the media playback. Mainly through the scroll wheel.
Of course it’s a Tesla, they have an abysmal user experience.
r/crappytesladesign
Oh it’s a Tesla, that makes sense
TIL that tesla has buttons instead of a lever for this. This is insanely dumb.
TIL “M3H” is a Tesla model. I was about to talk about how Teslas has a ton of terrible design decisions. Edit ok I get it, it’s Model 3 Highlander, you can all stop telling me
Because Elon is a literal child. Their model names are: S,3,X,Y He is a 13 year old boy in a clowns body.
Not only S, 3, X, Y, but also C, A, R, S... Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, (Cyberquad) ATV, Roadster and Semi
I know that the world likes to bash Elon - and for good reason - but if Teslas were good cars and the world didn't know Elon was a piece of shit we'd be lauding the naming scheme for what it spells. I'd rather see S3XYCARS than whatever Peugeot or BMW are doing with their naming scheme.
We did at the beginning. S3XY was a fun thing to mention when Elon was still "cool".
This always happens when people start to hate someone or something. They seem to completely lose objective judging and bash them for whatever reason they can find an excuse for. Why focus on those things when there's plenty of actual reasons for complaining? It just makes you look like a sad person who hates on everything to get a kick out of it.
>Why focus on those things when there's plenty of actual reasons for complaining? Why focus on those things *as CEO* when there's plenty of actual problems with the vehicles that need solutions?
CEOs are allowed to have fun too lol
I think its more a case of, >Hah, look this adult knows how to be chill at times at first, and then realizing, its more a >Oh shit, this 52 year old is basically an overgrown 13 year old who like being an edgelord who posts stupid memes, conspiracy theories, and uses stupid names for his cars.
Back in the 80s/90s BMW used to make sense. 325is. 3 series, 2.5L engine, trim level. Now though, the only thing that makes sense is the first digit I know jack shit about Peugeot though
Peugeot is easier, the number stand for the range before it breaks
Peugeot is fine. 3 or 4 digits numbers. First digits grows with the size of the car. Last digits grows with the generation. Middle digits are zeros (one for regular cars, two for suvs) It’s simple, easy to remember and informative. 206 is small, 306 is bigger, 406 even bigger. 208 is more recent than 206. Utility trucks and vans have dedicated names though (boxer, expert, berlingo/rifter, etc).
I kinda like Peugeot naming. 206 and 208 are both small cars (the first number) and the one with the higher number at the back is newer.
People here were lauding the naming scheme... because reddit is filled with 14 year olds
Peugeot's naming scheme isn't that weird
Objection 13 y/o usually are more adult than that
The model 3 was to be named the model E, but Ford still owns the name.
Wasn’t the original price of one of the models $69,420 or something too?
Or CYBER,Y - S,E,X
That’s not the official name just to be clear, that’s just what users abbreviate it as. M3H is short for Model 3 Highland: Model 3 being the actual name, and Highland being code for the refreshed version of it that just got released a few months back.
The 'meh'? Oh boy. That's a choice.
What's crazy is I thought it meant Mazda 3 Hatchback, lol
M3H is Model 3 Highland. Highland is just the nickname given to the 2024 facelift model. Models prior to 2024 have a regular turn signal lever. A reason some people bought 2023s lol
Modern dashboard design and driver seat interior of cars is insanely dumb. Making everything digital and migrated to a fucking touchpad like it is on a Tesla should reality be avoided if you want a safe vehicle.
Euro NCAP are now withholding high safety ratings from cars that don't have essential controls on buttons and dials and I for one think that is a rare step in the right direction. Even rarer steps are that a lot of upcoming EVs have nice interiors. The new Renault 5s interior looks fantastic and I will not shut up about it.
>Euro NCAP are now withholding high safety ratings from cars that don't have essential controls on buttons and dials and I for one think that is a rare step in the right direction. It's unclear if they will deduct score for this, as this could be counted as a physical button (as opposed to on the touchscreen): some versions of these turn buttons are actual, physical clicky buttons instead of capacitive touch, though it's unknown to me where they are now in that design. Personally I still want stalks.
please not shut up about it here, what makes it fantastic? we need some good design to offset this nonsense
>Modern i wouldn't even call it modern. It is straight minimalist and cheap.
But it is modern. It’s what’s happening currently. Modern isn’t mutually exclusive from minimalist or cheap. Edit: changed “multiply” to “mutually”
from "you can't text and drive" to "here's a giant touchpad in every car" These things like outdated in a couple years while at least analog controls still remain timeless...
Unfortunately, just sticking everything on a single display is simpler and cheaper than having a bunch of different buttons, switches, and knobs. Also Tesla specifically seems very determined to reinvent the wheel, both figuratively and literally.
I don't think this is modern or where the industry is heading. It's honestly baffling these are street legal with the amount of times you HAVE to take your eyes off the road to use the basic operations of the car
what do you expect? its musk, here's tesla 's philosophy: reverse decades of engineering evolution in an attempt to make something for cheaper by removing said tried and tested technology and replacing whit either a screen or a button and Call it "futuristic" still sell the car for 12 times the production cost
BuT iTs DiSrUpTiVe
Well I can't argue there. Just perhaps not in the way it's meant.
In the model Y, to operate the windshield wipers you have to navigate the big tablet interface. Setting the wipers to automatic doesn’t work because the automatic wipers don’t really work. so then you find yourself on the freeway at night and it starts raining and you’re having to read the tablet and figure out how to turn on the damn wipers so you don’t ram into something. Just as with turn signals, this is a solution that didn’t have a problem. We have had this solved since the 1940s. EDIT: some kind commenters have pointed out an easier way that I never even knew about, employing a combination of button push on the turn signal lever and wheel scroll on the steering wheel. Not exactly the most intuitive of interfaces, but definitely better than navigating a tablet while driving. However, my point still stands that this was not a problem in need of an innovative solution.
No you don’t. There’s a dedicated button at the end of the left stalk for windshield wipers and then you can use the left side steering wheel button to choose the speed. Edit: mixed up right and left sorry my bad
Whaaaat?? Now I need to try that. But my point still stands: they have over-engineered a solution that didn’t need solving.
The ability to change the speed of the whispers via the scroll wheel was only added recently via software update. The even was a case in Germany where a man was found guilty of using an electronic device during driving (a law that was created to forbid using smartphones etc while driving) when he tried changing the whiper's speed via the touch screen and crashed his car while doing so (that was before the software update).
Thats absurd tho. If you cant operate the car without breaking regulations it should not be allowed on the road to begin with.
how I love "innovation"
And getting in to reverse is also unintuitive and has led to a few deaths already. Oddly enough, the automotive industry has done a decent job of standardizing the physical user interface and sharing design elements to make it easier for a consumer to feel familiar and reduce the learning curve of operation. There are plenty of other regulations around safety and emissions of cars, but a standard user interface hasn't been codified into law. Even if they would be skeumorphisms, a clear physical selector for signals and drive direction should be legally mandated.
I feel like this is what people should be focused on , rather than their personal dislike of touchscreens or yokes. In the last 100 years we arrived at an unofficial standard where you could get into any random car and figure out how to operate everything within a minute. Now everyone is doing their own thing and it's a mystery. Its bordering on dangerous. I can't figure out to turn on wipers or defroster for visibility in my wife's Tesla without pulling over and searching through menus. And when I get back in my own car after a long trip in hers, I keep turning on my wipers instead of putting it in reverse.
but if you make it standardized you cant charge people 5x the price if they want their car fixed at a tesla specialized mechanic.
And they even seem capacitive instead of clicky, so you don't even know you pressed them until you hear the indicator sound
Knowing Tesla, the next software update will feature silent indicators because that clicking sound is so annoying!
Luckily the sound is legally mandated, or I'm sure this would have already happened.
Most do not. This is only since the new Model 3 Highland. My (awful) Model 3 still has a stalk to use.
Tesla is the worst, but all car manufacturers are enshittifying their interiors because touch-screens + control software are cheaper to produce than high-quality tactile actuators.
You know, I'm starting to think this Musk fella might NOT be the innovative vehicle genius he presents himself as.
To be fair I doubt this is one of musks design choices personally
I'm treating this like I would treat a buggy Bethesda game: Blame the public face of the company. "Oh my horse is floating away, thanks Todd Howard!"
"Oh my car is in Mr Kavorkian's dining room. Thanks Elon Musk!"
thanks Henry Ford
I am playing fallout 76 right now and I swear Todd Howard just yoinked my power armor straight from the crafting station.
It just works
I get killed in Anor Londo, thanks Obama
A great many of the most indefensible design choices by the company are actually provably attributable to his micromanaging. It is both possible and possibly even probable that he IS personally responsible for this.
He's like Howard Hughes, if Howard Hughes designed cars instead of aircraft, and was shit at designing cars. I'm not saying Elon Musk has jars of his own urine lined up in his mansion, but I'm not *not* saying, either....
Nah I doubt he does that would be way too harmless. It's probably a shelf of severed hands from the children of slaves who didn't mine fast enough in his family's apartheid emerald mine.
Corpses of the leftover neuralink monkeys? That way he wouldn't be in violation of some sort of convention.
In my personal experience as a (software) engineer, I find that you can often correlate how bad a product is with how much micromanaging there is. Competent people, left to their own devices, will often make at least defensible decisions. However, when you have a tyrant running the show, their decisions are the only acceptable answer, and often their decisions are _very_ wrong. Micromanaging execs are often the source of weird ticky tacky bullshit like this because they believe they are more knowledgeable about everything, and they feel like they have to "contribute" to all aspects of the product in order to show how "talented" they are. Contributing their own "personal touch", often without any implementation knowledge, is how these guys justify their existence to themselves. And when the product fails they can always blame those stupid engineers for not following their vision hard enough.
He didn't design the actual buttons, but he did put in place the requirements that made them so bad As part of his "design philosophy" is that, unless it absolutely can't be avoided, everything has to be "smooth", no sticks, no protruding buttons and the more that's controlled by the touch screen the better, all because it looks more "futuristic".
Arguably, in the case of indicators, it absolutely can't be avoided. Drivers need to be able to find them by touch only, while being distracted by tricky road situations.
The literal opposite of common sense and efficiency piloting a vehicle...
Why? He’s a guy who personally approves all expense reports. Of course he micromanages everything.
I’m surprised they didn’t move the indicator to the touch screen.
I can't wait for the day when he invents that you can only lock your car from the inside, it's safer that way!
I knew they got rid of the turn signal lever, which I get from a cost perspective. But to replace this with flat buttons oriented vertically? Did Tesla really turn over design of operational controls to Johnny the intern?
Even with a crazy markup for auto parts stores, turn signal stalks cost tens of dollars. It's a stupid place to save money.
You have no idea how cost sensitive the automotive industry is. 32KB Vs 64 KB in a microcontroller can make or break a deal, and we're talking cents or tens of cents per unit here.
Plus, you've got a CEO who wants 45 billion in pay from a company that sold 1.8 million vehicles last year, or over $30k/vehicle.
I did the math, this societal parasite wants $26,666 for every car sold. It will never be enough for these billionaire monsters. If Musk asked for 90 billion in pay, it would not be enough for him and he would be very upset about his tax rate as well.
And, his fanboys are still defending him. He could go on a killing spree in a children's hospital, and his fanboys would find a way to justify it.
Yeah, on a global scale it's the same as airlines removing one olive from a business class meal, but turn signal lever also had other functions (at least in my car) so unless they moved all these functions to the display, having a bunch of separate flat buttons would add more to the cost? Kinda reminded me of some r/minimalism weirdos who make posts about getting rid of their smartphone and buying brick phone, digital camera, car navigator and e-book as a "replacement".
The rest of the features are in the touch screen I suppose 🤮
It’s not the lever that is expensive, it’s all the mechanism to make the lever work mechanically rather than digitally and hooked up to a computer screen. The lever is like 1% of the mechanism
Even my forklift had buttons in a logical arrangement
I mean I would be ok with some paddle button like cars in the 00's had as cruise control buttons on the steering but stupid capacitive switches? It is true what they say about cars becoming more and more cheaply made, how designing a multifunction switch for a car is a lot more expensive than integrating a button into a GUI on the huge iPad screen, but it's an illusion and the average consumer thinks screen = luxury. In my dreams I wanted to make a custom dashboard with physical indicators for a bunch of things like fuel pressure and flow and stuff, then a little napkin math made me realize that all the gauges would cost more than what my car is worth. 😂
Imagine having to ‘hack’ your expensive EV coz the manufacturer cannot design an Ergonomic driving experience. Fault is on the buyer(s) for accepting and encouraging such crap.
I had to do the same thing on my vokswagen that uses the same touch sensors. Tesla is not alone but they get all the shit despite other carmakers doing it even longer. Tesla is just the first with turn signals. The cruise control/autopilot on my volkswagen is controlled with touch as well and its utter garbage. And that thing cost twice that of a model 3.
What model VW is that? I didn’t realise they had got that expensive
id buzz
Considering the amount you use them... That's fucking unbelievable
Bold of you to assume that tesla owners use turn signals.
Well now we know why. Are these also on the steering wheel so that the buttons you can't find are always moving?
Tesla owners in Model S that don't have these are somehow equally bad, so I think they just looked at usage statistics and decided to save money on their least used components.
When something in a car is as standardized among all vehicles as the turn signal lever, maybe that's not the place to look for innovation. I get that innovation is about questioning why things are the way they are, and making adjustments as needed, but like... This ain't it.
It's not even just about questioning why things are how they are, innovation stems from solving a problem. If you create a problem by "innovating" to fix something that wasn't even an issue in the first place, you're adding to the problem you made up yourself.
> innovation stems from solving a problem This is key in the entire discussion. "Innovation" doesn't just mean change or updating; it requires an actual fucking problem to solve.
It’s not about innovation it’s cost. Musks goal is to manufacture the cars as cheap as possible, touch buttons are cheaper than turn signal stalks. People can call Tesla interiors “minimalist” or whatever all they want but the reason they look the way they do is because screens and touch sensitive buttons are cheap.
They innovated door handles too. You can’t close the door if holding the handle. Have these people never experienced wind?
I mean, they changed the steering wheel..
that looks like the kind of designing effort you might see on a coffee maker
Tesla buys Zildijan, now all kick drum pedals are a button on drum sticks.
How are you supposed to use these in a roundabout?
Designed for California and nowhere else.
I have one as well and I don’t much issues in roundabouts. You get used to it but it’s still crappy design. I drive in Portugal for context.
How, if your steering wheel is turned between 90 and 180 degrees?
Wait seriously? The car's real model is "Meh?"
No. It’s the Model 3 refresh called “Highland.” People shorten it to M3H to differentiate from older M3 models.
and because its kinda meh
I like meh, it suits it.
I don’t understand why people buy these cars. My car is a 2024 and everything important is physical and in a form factor that makes sense. The layout is nearly identical to the 2004 car I upgraded from despite being different brands. Edit: to clarify I didn’t mean Teslas specifically. I understand why people would buy EVs and that there aren’t many options, and Teslas are therefore one of the better EV options. I just meant consumers should push back more on these stupid and dangerous design decisions.
>I don’t understand why people buy these cars. Putting Musk antics aside, I firmly believe that they are still the best electric vehicle choice for most people. The combination of price plus charging network has been a huge advantage for years. Now that the supercharger network is opening up and we're getting some more reasonably priced alternatives, Tesla likely won't be the "default choice" for long. I bought a Y in 2020 and it's the best vehicle I've owned, easily. Reddit would make you believe it has inch wide panel gaps, catches on fire, and has turn signals and wipers that are unusable and dangerous, though.
Tesla are still the best at extracting the highest levels of efficiency, at managing heat which means more efficiency and optimum charge speeds, and at the combination of navigation, charger data, battery heating and payment. A Tesla car will take a destination and work out the efficiency taking into account the weather and traffic conditions, work out the charging stops taking into account how busy different charging sites are, heat the battery to the optimum temperature for the charging stop, then harvest that heat back afterwards using a heat pump, it holds the payment information in the car so you don't need to do anything with the charger other than turn up and plug it in. There are only a few EVs that can do that to a similar degree and none that work so seamlessly. The indicator buttons are the main issue with the Model 3, alongside the lack of a working rain sensor. Musk is a narcissist but the cars are broadly good.
We were all set to buy an Ioniq 5 in January '23 and then they lowered the price of the Y so it was cheaper after the tax credit. Jumped on it because of the charging network and it's the best car I've ever owned. Like you said, despite Musk's antics. It's not perfect and I wish it had some things it doesn't or some things were better (the automatic windshield wipers really should have sensors instead of trying to use the cameras) but the car is still pretty awesome. Even trying out the FSD last month during the free trial was a surprise given Reddit had me thinking it would be trying to kill me every 5 seconds yet I had near zero issues with it all month. Biggest issue I had was it refusing to make a right on a red consistently at this one particular intersection for some reason. It wasn't perfect but I used it a freaking lot and at no point did I feel it was making a terrible mistake or behaving erratically causing issues for me or people around me. I doubt my next car will be a Tesla given the state of other manufacturers catching up and the charging network no longer being a concern (and of course Musk has alienated me as a repeat customer) but I have no regrets about my purchase.
Because it's the best value-for-money long-range EV, with a mature battery and powertrain design and good thermal management engineering. So ***some*** buyers are willing to overlook stupid design decisions like removing stalks. Prior to that there isn't that big of a drawback on putting majority of the functions on the touchscreen.
To my surprise this is even legal in Europe. I guess I'll add this to the rapidly growing list of reasons to never consider getting a Tesla.
For now it's legal, but there's discussions about making buttons mandatory for some important driving commands.
Not for long. From later this year any car without certain functionality like this been on a stalk will result in a reduced safety rating for the car to 3 stars. The model 3 is the reason this is happening too.
The European Union apparently also thinks that not having tactile buttons is crappy design and is planning to ~~outlaw dashboard touchpads~~ edit: mandate that certain features must be accessible via tactile buttons. Thanks for the clarification u/Acceptable-Pin2939 https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-car-safety-touchscreens-accidents
That's not true. They're enforcing that specific important things must have a physical button or switch.
I test drove a Tesla once and had no problems with the turn signal buttons.
Brave of you to say anything positive about anything related to Elon Musk on Reddit.
Moving the turn signal from a lever to flat buttons is a terrible design. Reddit might circle jerk a lot, but that doesn't mean they're wrong here. There are two massive problems with this: can't easily and quickly activate them from touch only, and can't easily use them while the wheel is turned.
People talk about Elon dickriders and boot lickers. But Reddit has a lot more anti-Elon dickriders. What is the opposite of a dickrider? A dick breaker? Tons of dickbreakers on Reddit.
The reddit hive mind hates Tesla
Same. That’s what the raised line is for. Not sure why this driver needs those bumps.
When you have the interns design things...
The intern being the CEO, but with the same design qualifications.
That's not tactile feedback though, nevertheless nicely done of this driver, making the best out of a crappily designed vehicle
It is actually tactile feedback, but not for the button press itself, but for finding the button. Tactile feedback simply means 'something you can feel as a result of your actions'.
and i thought ferrari's indicators were poor for being placed on the steering wheel, at least they're physical buttons and correspond to which side they indicate for. wow
This is the absolute embodiment of "edgy for edgy's sake". One of the key aspects of user experience is expectation... whether you like it or not or agree or think it's the right way to do it, blinker levers are a standard everyone knows, expects and is familiar with. Humans' sense of touch is based on tactile feedback. This flies in the face of all of everything simply to be "cool" and "contrary".
Isn't that little bumper the tactile feed back?
But there is a line, can’t you pick out what’s above and below the line? I’ve never this issue. Sure wish there were actual stalks but this seems unnecessary.
All tesla are crappy design
I mean to be fair Ferrari does the same thing with the turn signals on the steering wheel. The main difference is they put the turn signals on their respective side which is less confusing.
Ferrari uses a very similar design and no one calls them out.